Precat removal - How I did it...

[sonar]

i just got my 2000 MR2 last week without warranty. its got 43k miles on it already. i really dont know if the pre-cat is already bad or what.
its like this, when my rpm is lower than 1, i step on the gas pedal and the rpm wont go up instantly like other cars, like the reaction is slower... is this normal?
and my spyder cant even spin the wheels abit, even thought i start at 7000rpm during the 1st gear... Im really worried man...

[sonar]

sorry if Im asking stupid questions, what is the difference between "manifold" , "main cat" and "headers"?

[Tem]

sorry if Im asking stupid questions, what is the difference between "manifold" , "main cat" and "headers"?

Manifold=header, that's the one with the O2 sensoders and precats that connects to the engine.

Main cat is the one in the pipe that is between the manifold and muffler.

[dieamond]

Got my DEI tape tthis morning, installed it at noon, the stock header transformed goes in this evening

[dieamond]

It's installed, just made half a kilometer to burn the DEI tape

I think this rocks

[dieamond]

Pics :
http://www.mrs-passion.com/images/Galleries/Divers/cata_plusrien.jpg

http://www.mrs-passion.com/images/Galleries/Divers/cata_vousmereconnaissez.jpg

In car videos :

TRD header + Remus exhaust + TRD style intake :
http://www.mrs-passion.com/Showroom/Soundclips/Dieamond/DieMRSoundclip.wmv

Gutted header + Remus exhaust + TRD Style intake :
http://www.mrs-passion.com/Showroom/Videos/DieInCar2.wmv

[GSB]

Dieamond,

What sort of effect does the tape have? Decreased noise?

[dieamond]

Only a little

But mainly it keeps heat inside the header, so it lowers the temperature in the engine compartment, which is a good thing by itself

Plus, hotter gaz run faster> it should give 1 or 2 more HP

Actually I run without the main heatshield because I want to paint it.

This noon I'll try to find some heat resistant paint

[GSB]

How many metres of this thermal tape is required to cover a single manifold? It seems to come in rolls of 5, 10 and 15m.

[Tem]

How many metres of this thermal tape is required to cover a single manifold? It seems to come in rolls of 5, 10 and 15m.

Going to do it?

(it's one of the best ways to capture moisture and make the manifold rust through)

[koni]

Just wanted to thank GSB for his article on removing the precats. I did it this morning with no problems at all thanks to all the information on here.

Cheers

koni

[louisecwells]

Has anyone who has removed their precats had the engine managmeent light come on? If so what did they do to make if go off!!!

[Tem]

As this subject comes on in a million new topics, maybe this one should be a sticky...?

[reddi]

so what percentage of 2's do you rekon this happens to? just wondering as i spoke to one of the mechanics at a Mr T garage and he genuinly had never heard of the problem

[kanujunkie]

pass on figures, but just in the club theres a load of people who have had problems and a write up in a national paper to boot proves that the problem does exist even if it is hyped up a bit

[reddi]

shocking then that Mr T hasnt done something about allowing you to take your car in and get them out

[Tem]

shocking then that Mr T hasnt done something about allowing you to take your car in and get them out

Shocking? Not really when you think of their choices:

1) Admit the problem, recall all MR2's or at least repair them at no cost even after warranty.

2) Keep quiet and handle them case by case, always saying that this is the first they've heard of.

Now remember that the '2 is a very rare car. Toyota sold like 15.000-20.000 of them worldwide per year...for 5 years. That's some 100.000 cars. Now lets say every fifth car blows up during warranty and it costs £5k to fix it. That might be rounding upwards, but so be it. That's only £100k bill...for 5 years total. Admitting the issue might cost another £100k in the next 5 years. Don't know, just guessing out loud.

Toyota hopes to sell 8.500.000 cars next year...that's almost 500 times the number of '2's. £100k is nothing compared to that. Keeping a clean troublefree image helps to sell the cars that matter financially. I don't know how much profit they make per car, some sources guestimate 3000-5000 euros per car (for life, including all maintenance as well). Let's assume the first, about £2k. Selling 50 cars would cover the engine swaps to all '2's. Or 10 cars per year for next 5 years. In reality admitting they have a huge issue in their engines would make them lose way more than 10 new car sales per year.

It's pure business, not good will.

[reddi]

yeah i totally see what you mean. But say my pre-cats failed tomorrow and i take to Mr T and they look at me and say we cant help or say they will need 3K (just a figure) to fix it. Im obviously not going to be very happy and will make sure that everyone then knows about this issue and Mr T's attitude to let it go hoping it never gets noticed.

The reason i hate this is like many others i can drive but thats where my car experience goes and so i dont want to try removing pre-cats and have knowone to do it for me. so Im tempted to just leave them alone, but the thought of paying all this money for my car and then the engine to blow and get told i need a new engine and mr t isnt even going to help, that is what makes it hard

[Liz]

Why don't you buy a warranty from Mr T or an aftermarket one from Warranty Direct? Engine blows - should be covered - one one from warranty direct cost £247 for 13 months.

[Tem]

Or look around for the next precat removal party

(or offer someone money to take them off for you)

[reddi]

ive tried offering money but no one that lives near me that can do it, and the next pre cat removal is in england and to far to travel

[southerneditor]

Reddi, now that you're aware of the problem, it's time to figure out a solution. It isn't an easy job, but isn't that hard, either. If you can turn a wrench, you can do it. Otherwise, keep looking for gutting meets that you can attend, or try to locate a garage that will do it for you.

[Richie]

Im going to do mines in a few weeks so I'l let you know how difficult it actually is - I've had a good look at things and all seems as though it should be quite simple providing everything is unseized.

If somebody had a decent facility to do it, I would be up for a gutting meet, however I shall be doing mines either at work or outside my flat


richie

[dimwit]

shocking then that Mr T hasnt done something about allowing you to take your car in and get them out

Shocking? Not really when you think of their choices:

1) Admit the problem, recall all MR2's or at least repair them at no cost even after warranty.

2) Keep quiet and handle them case by case, always saying that this is the first they've heard of.

Now remember that the '2 is a very rare car. Toyota sold like 15.000-20.000 of them worldwide per year...for 5 years. That's some 100.000 cars. Now lets say every fifth car blows up during warranty and it costs £5k to fix it. That might be rounding upwards, but so be it. That's only £100k bill...for 5 years total. Admitting the issue might cost another £100k in the next 5 years. Don't know, just guessing out loud.

Toyota hopes to sell 8.500.000 cars next year...that's almost 500 times the number of '2's. £100k is nothing compared to that. Keeping a clean troublefree image helps to sell the cars that matter financially. I don't know how much profit they make per car, some sources guestimate 3000-5000 euros per car (for life, including all maintenance as well). Let's assume the first, about £2k. Selling 50 cars would cover the engine swaps to all '2's. Or 10 cars per year for next 5 years. In reality admitting they have a huge issue in their engines would make them lose way more than 10 new car sales per year.

It's pure business, not good will.

Surely "sweeping it under the carpet" would cause more problems than addmitting it Due to word of mouth will loose Toyota sales...

[Tem]

Surely "sweeping it under the carpet" would cause more problems than addmitting it Due to word of mouth will loose Toyota sales...

Think about it. When the average Joe is buying a new car, would he have a clue about our engine issues with the way things are now? He's just happy that he knows someone with a Toyota who never had problems with it and he hasn't read about any major recalls in his favourite auto magazine. That's where the volume and money is, not among the enthusiasts

[garystorey]

Hello, I am new to the site and have owned an 51 mr2 for just over 12 months. I recently noticed a difference in the tone of the engine. I took the car to a friend who carries out services. I was alarmed to find whilst reving the engine a noise similar to rattling tapit was evident. This has sice gone, but there is now a different sound from the engine when under load. I visited my local Toyota dealer and the mechanic who test drove my car said there was no significant difference, he also told me about issues with pre cats on the mr2. He said he knew of 3 that had been returned to the dealership in Wakefield with cat problems, and luckily for the owners had the issue rectified under warranty.
A fter reading the forum I cant help but think I am on the bad side of the cat problem. I am going to attemt removal of the pre cat, can I expect to see lights staying on after the removal and if so what can I do to clear the problem.

[markiii]

you should get no error lights at all.

if you do disconnect the battery for 10 minutes and that should clear it.

[garystorey]

you should get no error lights at all.

if you do disconnect the battery for 10 minutes and that should clear it.

Thanks for the reply Mark.
I removed the cat from the system and one of the pre cats is missing, "oh dear",. When I turned the cat upsidedown, out came the ceramic peices.
The trouble is I dont know how damaged the cat is. Instead of removing the manifold and risk breaking a stud, I am going to break the second pre cat into smaller pieces then vacuum the inside of the chamber. I cant realy see this being a problem, as many of the ceramic pieces have passed through into the cat already.
I am now sh-----g myself thinking about the cost and where my level of expertise runs out.
I have phoned the local dealer who has advised me to phone Toyota GB and explain the situation. They may look at this situation favourably.

[kanujunkie]

good luck with the Toyota bit Gary. Just a bit of advice if your removing the rest of the cats without dropping the manifold off the engine, make sure you remove the O2 sensors first and jam some oily or damp rags in the o2 ports to help prevent any more particles from entering the engine

whats your oil consumption been like recently????

good luck

[garystorey]

good luck with the Toyota bit Gary. Just a bit of advice if your removing the rest of the cats without dropping the manifold off the engine, make sure you remove the O2 sensors first and jam some oily or damp rags in the o2 ports to help prevent any more particles from entering the engine

whats your oil consumption been like recently????

good luck

Thanks fo the interest kanujunkie, Ive only gone and bloody done it!.
I removed the bottom of the pre cat and found only one of the chambers had the ceramic material in it, the right side was empty (is this normal). [/b][/color]I broke the other with a screwdriver and used a good old dyson to vac out any remaining fibre, as it turned out it was as clean as a whistle when I finished. Anyway its all back together now, no warning lights, however it does still have the different tone to the engine. I dont know if the cats been affected, but I will find out later this month when I take it for an MOT.
I think tomorrow I will take off the rocker cover and see if there is anything obvious. As for oil consumption it does not seem to loose any.