Short shifter and gear change questions

[AndyM]

Hi,

In typical fashion I've just realised a few things I meant to ask people/see/try on Ding Day that slipped my mind in all the excitement. The first of which is about short shifters (another couple of posts will follow).

I'm quite interested in doing the conversion but I would realistically be looking at one of the eBay ones opposed to the full TRD ones (budget restricted).

I had meant to ask someone if I could try theirs to see what it's like but as I forgot I had a couple of other queries I was hoping someone might be able to answer...

1) Is the action on the short shifter effectively the same as if you hold the standard gear stick further down, or, does it actually change the fulcrum and therefore make it a more substantially different feel? The reason I ask is that if it's just like having a shorter stock stick I might try driving with it held half way down to get a feel for it.

2) I've read some threads about cable bushings (specifically the Speed Source ones that I think were on a GB a while back). Are these worth getting when doing a short shifter mod? If so can they be sourced in the UK (or are there similar alternatives?).

3) Will the above help a slight 'notchiness' I've got in my gearbox? It's not massively noticeable all the time but I have had a few changes where it's seemed to clunk a bit or need a bit of extra persuasion. I've recently (about 500 miles ago) done a transmission oil change to Redline MT90 but it hasn't had a massive change in feel as yet so it led me to think it might be the bushings.

4) Could anyone post a picture of the 'angle' that the cheaper short shifters give due to the lack of curve in the stick. From what I have read on here it doesn't seem to be much of a problem for people once they get used to it but I'd like to see a photo for aesthetic purposes  s:) s:)

Many thanks,
Andy

[nathanMR2]

I wish you'd have said mate. You could have tried mine  s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

In typical fashion I've just realised a few things I meant to ask people/see/try on Ding Day that slipped my mind in all the excitement. The first of which is about short shifters (another couple of posts will follow).

I'm quite interested in doing the conversion but I would realistically be looking at one of the eBay ones opposed to the full TRD ones (budget restricted).

I had meant to ask someone if I could try theirs to see what it's like but as I forgot I had a couple of other queries I was hoping someone might be able to answer...

1) Is the action on the short shifter effectively the same as if you hold the standard gear stick further down, or, does it actually change the fulcrum and therefore make it a more substantially different feel? The reason I ask is that if it's just like having a shorter stock stick I might try driving with it held half way down to get a feel for it. – Very close to this yeah

2) I've read some threads about cable bushings (specifically the Speed Source ones that I think were on a GB a while back). Are these worth getting when doing a short shifter mod? If so can they be sourced in the UK (or are there similar alternatives?). – Worth doing whether you go for a short stick or not. The spherical ones are rated well and I think you might be able to get 'universal' ones on ebay.

3) Will the above help a slight 'notchiness' I've got in my gearbox? It's not massively noticeable all the time but I have had a few changes where it's seemed to clunk a bit or need a bit of extra persuasion. I've recently (about 500 miles ago) done a transmission oil change to Redline MT90 but it hasn't had a massive change in feel as yet so it led me to think it might be the bushings. – if its notchy now this might increase with a short shifter

4) Could anyone post a picture of the 'angle' that the cheaper short shifters give due to the lack of curve in the stick. From what I have read on here it doesn't seem to be much of a problem for people once they get used to it but I'd like to see a photo for aesthetic purposes – I don't have a picture however this really isn't a worry for me and it never was

For the record i wouldnt want to go back to a standard shifter now. Well worth the money on the ebay ones

[PeteT]

Andy
You should have taken up my offer to drive my car!
I have the trd short shifter fitted too. I've tried the eBay short shifter first but didn't like it. For me it was the position of 1st was too far over.
I have since bought the trd one and have not regretted it.
Try the eBay one first, see what you think, sell it on our you don't like it and save for the trd one!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

[AndyM]

Cheers chaps. Can't believe I was in both your cars and didn't think to ask. Felt like a complete numpty on Sunday when I woke up and realised the things I'd forgotten.  s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

Nathan, I'll have a look for those bushings. I just read that the Speed Source ones carry some pretty hefty shipping costs compared to the actual item cost so I'd rather find something this side of the Atlantic if I can.

Pete, definitely!  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  I've subsequently decided that I basically want to make your car in sable over the next couple of years. Perhaps if there's a northern based drive any time soon I'll head across and actually have a go then?

[Zonda_]

I have a cheap ebay one, I'm waiting to find the time to have it removed. It takes serious effort to move the gear stick now and, as has been said, if it's notchy now it'll emphasise it.  It does put the selector in a different position but you don't notice it after a while.

[tomaky]

The Lake Destrict drive still needs to get some more interest could occur then perhaps  s;) s;)

[onion86]

I have had both but definitely prefer the TRD; the eBay is still a marked improvement over the stock one on a budget though. The main difference of it being more solid is the metal cage bushings that come with it (to replace the existing rubber ones), even just changing them could be an option. The gears are in a slightly different place (further to the left), due to it being straight and not curved like the stock/TRD, but you get used to it pretty quickly.

I took some pics when I changed the eBay to TRD, here is a comparison (if you hadn't worked it out, eBay is closest to camera) :
 m http://www.azekiel.co.uk/mrs/images/shortShifters1.jpg m  - in 3rd gear position
 m http://www.azekiel.co.uk/mrs/images/shortShifters2.jpg m  - in 4th gear position

And here is stock vs. eBay -  m http://www.azekiel.co.uk/mrs/mods/shortshifter.html m

[roger]

I have the trd short shifter fitted too. I've tried the eBay short shifter first but didn't like it. For me it was the position of 1st was too far over.
I have since bought the trd one and have not regretted it.
Try the eBay one first, see what you think, sell it on our you don't like it and save for the trd one!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

+1. The TRD is much smoother, less notchy. Whether that is the lever or the mounting bushes, not sure.

[trevsmr2]

See if you can pick up a cheap standard lever (maybe even free you only need the lever ),and cut 2" off it ,discard the mounting bushes and bolt the cage straight to the car

that will give you an idea how it will feel ,cant properly reuse your standard knob though,but ok as a trial

i think its made a massive difference on mine ,to looks and the feel of changing gear ,lot less movement

[dj2k21]

I have the trd one and its great. Much more positive shift, shorter throw and much smoother. Not cheap mind but a worthwhile mod

[AndyM]

Thanks for the input everyone, certainly seems like a popular mod. Drove home from work yesterday only using the stick half way up and it did feel much more positive. When I got home reverse was a little tricky to find but I think that's partially because I was having to hold the stick through the loose gator.

My plan, fit the eBay one in the short term and then maybe look to upgrade to the TRD one at a later date if I feel I need too.

However, another query...

I can't find the spherical bushings Nathan mentioned but have had a quote from Speed Source of only £25 delivered to get their copper ones sent over which seems ok. They also offer 'aluminium base bushings' as part of a combo pack for a bit extra money but I didn't know if these were better/compatible/a waste of time if I'm fitting the eBay shifter?

These shifters seem to come with '4x aluminium washers' which look similar but without the instructions I can't check. Anyone know?

[nathanMR2]

I've managed to get some details from loadswine as follows...  

Spherical ones from Tim at TB Developments, not cheap at £40, but he'd pay that again for them, He likes them that much.
Contactable on  e http://www.mr2spyder.net/spyderweb/inde ... -bushings/ m

Found another seller on ebay who does what looks like similar but probably not quite as good at £9.99

 m http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewit ... 0806422462 m

[Jay67]

i heard about the spherical ones from Nige when I was looking to change mine, unfortunately TB didn't have them, I went for the brass Speedsource ones instead. If they've got them in let me know, wouldn't mind trying them out  s:) s:)

[AndyM]

Nathan, thanks very much mate, appreciated.  s:) s:)  Quite tempted with the elliptical ones based on Nige's enthusiasm and the comments on that mr2spyder.net thread. I've emailed Tim for a delivered quote and I'll go from there.

Have you fitted solid base bushings to the cage on yours with the eBay short shifter?


Jay, I'll let you know  s:) s:)

[E]

Not sure if it will be much help but I have the E Bay short shifter fitted and it can be seen in action in the video i posted on the Ding Day thread so should give a good idea of the positions through the gears, also I have had the solid brass shifter bushings which are great but I now have the spherical ones and they are far far better.

here is the vid just in case.
[youtube:2lg29vsw]DQjr6d146yk[/youtube:2lg29vsw]

[AndyM]

Thanks E. Position looks fine to me, great vid by the way.  s:) s:)

[AndyM]

Just another quick question on this...

I've been paying more attention to the gearbox over the past week or so and although I described some 'notchiness' in my first post, what I actually mean is that it seems to sometime struggle to lock into a slot properly. Here is an example:

You're coming up to a roundabout preparing to stop, slow down and drop into neutral, as you are about to fully stop the lights change so put it in gear. At this point sometimes it seems to almost not find the slot properly, occasionally have to give it a couple of presses before it clicks in.

9 times out of 10 it's fine, the clutch doesn't slip and the actual 'clunk' feels right when it does find it. Also the gears sound/feel when when engaged. It almost feels like sometimes there is an inaccuracy in the stick. Trying to go over this logically and I wondered if this could be down to wear/wobble in the bushings?

Fortuitously, I've managed to source some of these spherical bushings so I was wondering if these were likely to resolve this little quirk?

[Jay67]

could well be the rubber bushes getting soft, sounds similar to a problem I had before changing mine

[nathanMR2]

If you're referring to slowing down to an 'almost' stop and trying to get it into 1st then I have this happen too. Ive always consider it a quirk of the car but ive got used to it now. You kind of know at what point you can get away with pulling away in 2nd or coming to more of a stop to allow you to get into 1st ok.

Can I ask where you got your spherical bushings from and for how much?

[onion86]

If you're referring to slowing down to an 'almost' stop and trying to get it into 1st then I have this happen too. Ive always consider it a quirk of the car but ive got used to it now. You kind of know at what point you can get away with pulling away in 2nd or coming to more of a stop to allow you to get into 1st ok.

+1 I've had that in both of mine too, it appears more apparent with the short shifter due to the stiffer shift, but it was there before. It's always been there whether stock shifter, short shifter, rubber bushings or copper speedsource bushings.

[ChrisGB]

Double de clutch around it.

[mrzwei]

 s:lol: :lol: s:lol:   Bloody hell Chris, I have to remember how to do that in my camper van!
It will however solve the problem.

[Topdownman]

Andy,

Your post summed up what I felt too after Ding Day, I completely forgot all the questions I had.

Luckily this was one of the questions I had too!

I have noticed it can be hard to find third sometimes when changing quickly so maybe this would be improved by the less flexible bushes included with the eBay short shifter? For forty quid it's got to be one of the cheapest mods you can do isn't it(unless you are going to count air fresheners of course!)..

[AndyM]

Cheers for the replies. I'd been told about the 1st gear quirk but it's actually 2nd I'd noticed it on mainly (and a couple of times dropping from 5th to 4th).

I have noticed it can be hard to find third sometimes when changing quickly so maybe this would be improved by the less flexible bushes included with the eBay short shifter?

After reading into this a fair bit I think the cable bushings at the box end are the ones that will most likely help (and you don't get these with the short shift - those ones are, I think, ones that go onto the cage to make the stick end a bit more direct). I've ordered some for the cables and will get a short shift at a later date when cash allows/stuff sells on eBay.  s;) s;)

I'll report back once they're received and in the car.

[AndyM]

Arrived today, won't be going into the car for a couple of weeks unfortunately due to time.