Tuning upgrades

Started by michaelb, November 20, 2017, 21:47

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Samuel

#25
Tyres and chassis bracing make a better ride. Forced induction if you realy want more power. Having said that: I realy like the maf mod. Have been running it for over 3 years in combination with exhaust and intake upgrades (mark III pipe and pipercross panel filter). Very responsive and a realy good sound (depending on which exhaust mostly, but also intake 'noise'.)

1979scotte

#26
Forgot about bracing.
Add that to the bottom of the list.
Not everyone agrees but I like a mid brace and front strut brace.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Free Ukraine 🇺🇦

shnazzle

#27
Quote from: "1979scotte"Forgot about bracing.
Add that to the bottom of the list.
Not everyone agrees but I like a mid brace and front strut brace.
Ditto.
Mid brace is legendary. You feel the difference the second you back up off your drive.
Front strut is noticeable on the first decent corner. So much so that it actually caught me off guard. It was far "pointier" than it was so I oversteered a bit.

I'm a massive fan of the intake noise I get from my Hurricane. Even just an open cone behind the battery. Yeah, like for like on stock it does nowt but.. The noise...  s:) :) s:)
...neutiquam erro.

Carolyn

#28
Double Ditto on the bracing.
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

HRVMR2

#29
A brand new maf is a world of difference in relation to cleaning your old one according to a few people in other n/a cars I have spoken with, something I really want to try.
A new maf, high quality manifold, sports cat, bored out throttle body, plus piggyback may well net you 15bhp. You are looking at £1.5k. I would also recommend walnut blasting intake valves and using top quality oil. I can honestly say using Fuchs titan race pro oil does restore lost bhp.

JoeCool

#30
" You are looking at £1.5k"

You can drop in a 2ZZ for that and have a guaranteed 180bhp...

Honestly, tuning a modern NA engine is a hiding to nothing, unless you're just made of money. Cams, ECU, remapping - yeah, sure, then you'll see gains, but at the expense of driveability and your relationship with your bank manager.
2ZZ '02 Roadster

Bernie

#31
Quote from: "JoeCool"" You are looking at £1.5k"

You can drop in a 2ZZ for that and have a guaranteed 180bhp...

Honestly, tuning a modern NA engine is a hiding to nothing, unless you're just made of money. Cams, ECU, remapping - yeah, sure, then you'll see gains, but at the expense of driveability and your relationship with your bank manager.


I'd beg to differ on driveability mine has been mapped after all the mods and is smooth and progressive from 3,000 revs right to the limit in all gears whereas to get a 2ZZ  into lift is rev the nuts off it to keep it at the top end of the Rev range

True it wasn't cheap but getting hold of a 2ZZ engine is not just a straight swop either plenty of work needed
Black 2004  N/A  Many Mods = 171BHP 
2019 & 2021 MR2DC National Day Modified Best in Class
Readers Ride
https://www.mr2roc.org/index.php?topic=56481.0

shnazzle

#32
Quote from: "bernie11a"
Quote from: "JoeCool"" You are looking at £1.5k"

You can drop in a 2ZZ for that and have a guaranteed 180bhp...

Honestly, tuning a modern NA engine is a hiding to nothing, unless you're just made of money. Cams, ECU, remapping - yeah, sure, then you'll see gains, but at the expense of driveability and your relationship with your bank manager.


I'd beg to differ on driveability mine has been mapped after all the mods and is smooth and progressive from 3,000 revs right to the limit in all gears whereas to get a 2ZZ  into lift is rev the nuts off it to keep it at the top end of the Rev range

True it wasn't cheap but getting hold of a 2ZZ engine is not just a straight swop either plenty of work needed
Truthfully the total actual cost of the 2zz conversion versus Bernie's setup aren't miles off from each other. Having now driven both, hands down Bernie's would be my preference.

Also, remember that Bernie's results can be achieved with slightly less premium parts,reducing the cost slightly. A Zero manifold and PPE intake are both mega bucks but might put out 2hp more over much cheaper variants.

I'd say, if you don't mind spending the cash, the modified and mapped 1zz is a fantastic daily option.

Also, you can do it in steps. So you spread the cost over as long as you want. Whereas 2zz is big bang.

You could actually get all of the hardware in before tackling the engine mapping via a piggyback or standalone (standalone is where the majority of Bernie's power is, in combo with his mods)
...neutiquam erro.

lamcote

#33
I was having a peek at the Monkey Wrench Racing website and spotted the standalone ECU they sell.

They have a before and after power curve for an otherwise mostly standard 1zz and the remap seems to make a significant improvement right the way through the rev range, most improvement is mid range and probably the least difference at the top end, interestingly.

The minimal increase in the headline maximum power must make it a hard sell but ironically, I expect in reality it must make a really significant difference to the way the car would actually drive on the road in the real world.

Shame it's so expensive.

Obviously with other suitable mods you would get more top end as well, as Bernie has done. I must admit this route is far more tempting than the 2zz for me too.
Silver 2004 MR2 -  Unmodified but very shiny.

jvanzyl

#34
Just a thought on the long term stuff here through..
You could spend "similar" money and make a nice 1ZZ like Bernies or go the 2ZZ route.
However the "What next" bug will likely return and you will then be wondering what you can do.
If you know yourself and your likely behaviour it might be an option to consider something like the 2ZZ now to give you more options later on... Could be wrong and happy to be corrected!

1979scotte

#35
Surely the 2zz would be far cheaper than a tuned NA 1zz.
The apexi PFC on Bernies car is 700 on its own and I am not sure you would get the same results from a piggyback.

John.
I don't trust MWR Dyno graphs and I never will.
American hp is always bigger.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Free Ukraine 🇺🇦

Bernie

#36
Did a total from Robs files a while ago bear in mind 2ZZ is going to need an overhaul, good gearbox, exhaust mods etc and yes Robs parts were top end then, these days maybe not to far different with cheaper parts if you are good with the spanners a labour saving and yes Rob added parts over a couple of years I only added the lightweight flywheel which isn't a must have

Crower Stage 1 Cams (Monkey Wrench USA). £100
Apexi Power FC (ECU) with Commander hand controller circa £1,000
Mapping / Dyno by Noble Motorsport 171 BHP.   £550
Fidanza lightweight flywheel £350
Up graded serpentine belt tensioner £75
PPE Cold Air Induction system (Monkey Wrench USA) £300
Zero - 4 into 2 Equal Length, tuned collector, Manifold SS.  £575
Silverstone Performance De-cat pipe, fitted with 200 CEL Sports Cat £500
Blueflame Custom Twin Exhaust.  £325

Parts Total £3,775
Black 2004  N/A  Many Mods = 171BHP 
2019 & 2021 MR2DC National Day Modified Best in Class
Readers Ride
https://www.mr2roc.org/index.php?topic=56481.0

1979scotte

#37
Pretty sure you can get a PFC for less than that these days you can certainly get alternatives for less.
Crower stage 1 cams are over 300 pounds btw. Plus shipping and tax if you have to get them from MWR.

I suppose you are going to need a custom exhaust for a 2zz so there is some saving there.

Perhaps the 2 are closer than I realised.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Free Ukraine 🇺🇦

lamcote

#38
The thing about the MWR dyno graph was that it was a straight before and after so the actual numbers are irrelevant, the line showed the increase from standard to remapped through the rev range, even if the power is "american" BHP, it should have been the same method of measurement before and after so the percentage increase shown should apply whatever the actual BHP works out at. If it does, it looked a useful increase, particularly in the low to mid range.
Silver 2004 MR2 -  Unmodified but very shiny.

shnazzle

#39
That's it. That's the only way I read dyno graphs, compare before/after plots.

A lot can be down to luck. Apexi ecus have gone for 450 including commander and other stuff with a decent base map to get you to the mapper's. Then another 4-500 to fine tune for your car and mods.
...neutiquam erro.

Ardent

#40
Quote from: "lamcote"I was having a peek at the Monkey Wrench Racing website and spotted the standalone ECU they sell.

They have a before and after power curve for an otherwise mostly standard 1zz and the remap seems to make a significant improvement right the way through the rev range, most improvement is mid range and probably the least difference at the top end, interestingly.

The minimal increase in the headline maximum power must make it a hard sell but ironically, I expect in reality it must make a really significant difference to the way the car would actually drive on the road in the real world.

Shame it's so expensive.

Obviously with other suitable mods you would get more top end as well, as Bernie has done. I must admit this route is far more tempting than the 2zz for me too.
Your 3rd paragraph.
In spirit. Like the tte.
No big headline bhp. But a very useful 50% increase in torque.

Tedtiler

#41
Just my opinion but ive always felt the gearbox in a 1zz held it  back a bit for me. The gearing is just too long.
I worked on a jap import 1zz roadster for someone and it was a great drive with the 4.3 final drive.

Maybe the 2zz one would help further ive never bothered to put one in but ive always felt half the appeal of the 2zz is the gearbox with proper ratios

1979scotte

#42
2zz with the correct ratio box is a must.
I will never understand anyone that just fits it in with the stock roadster box.
Has anyone ever tried the 1zz with 2zz box?
Got to keep the roadsters 6th ratio. Don't want it be revving the nuts off it on the motorway.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Free Ukraine 🇺🇦

Carolyn

#43
Dean, at Rutland MR2, told me that a lot of the racers go for the JDM gearbox (with added LSD).
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

Gaz mr-s

#44
Quote from: "Tedtiler"Just my opinion but ive always felt the gearbox in a 1zz held it  back a bit for me. The gearing is just too long.

I've only been on the forum since last year, so little knowledge so far, but have felt that too,- I'm surprised I haven't read it before.  Surely if Toyota were really trying to make the 2 a 'sports car' they would have fitted a close-ratio box.  If the 2zz gearbox fits it seems odd they didn't use it.....?

delhusband

#45
Quote from: "gdbd59"
Quote from: "Tedtiler"Just my opinion but ive always felt the gearbox in a 1zz held it  back a bit for me. The gearing is just too long.

I've only been on the forum since last year, so little knowledge so far, but have felt that too,- I'm surprised I haven't read it before.  Surely if Toyota were really trying to make the 2 a 'sports car' they would have fitted a close-ratio box.  If the 2zz gearbox fits it seems odd they didn't use it.....?
Yeah, +1 but I appreciate that wouldn't suit everyone (like extended motorway drives). On a good day out I'm rarely out of 2nd & 3rd, very occassional 4th, and wishing I had a bit more "resolution" (or extra gears in between, is what i mean).
Hate pointy animals

Tedtiler

#46
Toyota always was interested in mpg for uk models, longer gearing then. Mk2 mr2 was exactly the same, jap versions got the 4.3 final drive.

Or possibly it was the headline 0 to 60 figure, getting there in second gear helped that.

0 to 60 for celica and corolla t sport  was a bit tame for 190 hp. I can only assume they had to go into third

Essex2Visuvesi

#47
Quote from: "Tedtiler"Toyota always was interested in mpg for uk models, longer gearing then. Mk2 mr2 was exactly the same, jap versions got the 4.3 final drive.

Or possibly it was the headline 0 to 60 figure, getting there in second gear helped that.

0 to 60 for celica and corolla t sport  was a bit tame for 190 hp. I can only assume they had to go into third

Also there's more weight to a corolla/celica

JoeCool

#48
My car has the 2zz and gearbox and it'll hit 60 in second. 61 to be precise! They may have tested it to 100kph/62mph for the continental market which might explain it, probably need 3rd for that.

Speed is one thing, driveability and personal preference quite another. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is we should settle this with a run what ya bring on a trackday. Driving in a straight line is surprisingly hard!
2ZZ '02 Roadster

Gaz mr-s

#49
Quote from: "JoeCool"My car has the 2zz and gearbox and it'll hit 60 in second. 61 to be precise!



Anyone use the 1zz with the 2zz box?

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