1zz turbo g4 link > slow cranking

[stevex]

Hi Guys,

Just had a rebuilt engine fitted by Matt Lee.

The car is running a g4 link ECU (with an unknown map, told it is a 'base map').

The car got me home just (stopped once, wouldn't start then battery drained quickly when trying to re-start), and it idles poorly (sometimes hunts, or nearly stalls). So I won't trust driving it TBH until it is mapped, but I need to work out how to get it starting ok, it won't be any good dropping it off somewhere and it won't turn over.

Anyhow, so the car is difficult to start, turns over lots before firing up and is sluggish. I bought a new upgraded battery > still the same. Could the aftermarket ECU be causing this? Any ideas how I can check the voltage and see where the drain is when cranking? Or could it be too much advance when trying to start, so the engine is fighting the starter? Started perfectly with the old engine and ECU even with the old battery, new engine, new ECU, new battery > slow to turn over and lots of turns to fire up.

FYI when I checked the map out of interest, it around 35 degrees advance set in from zero rpm up to 500 rpm's > seems like a hell of a lot.

If anyone has a proper 1zz turbo base map they would be willing to share to get me to the mappers a bit safer it would be appreciated.


Thanks,


Steve

[ChrisGB]

Firstly, yes 35 degrees advance is a lot if you are running stock compression ratio. Try putting 18 degrees in around that area and maybe 12 degrees in the 0-500rpm start up area.

Also, the link has the facility to delay fuelling for a number of turns of the crank for oil pressure to rise, so worth checking to see if that is set to delay.

Without a proper tune, you won't know if it is running rich or lean during cranking too, so a proper mapping session is going to be essential. The link has the facility for cold start enrichment and this needs to be set up once normal temperature running is mapped.

Hope this helps.

[jonbill]

I don't know about that engine specifically, but I have a couple of books say most engines won't start easy with more than about 20 deg of advance. 35 I'm sure is too much down at that engine speed.
I think a safe advance curve would be say 10 at 500rpm, 20 at 1500 rpm and peak at 30 at 3500

[1979scotte]

Hope that engine is ok.
We had a couple from memory that had been honed incorrectly.

[m1tch]

Might be worth plugging into the ECU and checking all the settings?

[shnazzle]

I believe tomaky is the member to speak to, stevex

[tomaky]

I have experience with this kit. I have the base map sat here on my pc. PM me your email.

[stevex]

Thanks for all of the replies and useful info guys much appreciated.

Matt rebuilt the engine himself so should be good there  s:) s:)  

I went from a TTE kit to Thor stage 3, so gt28rs, charge cooler, larger injectors etc. The block is running forged rods and late spec pistons, but compression etc should all be standard still.

The car is at the moment set to wastegate pressure until tuned (solenoid disconnected) so probably only 7psi ish i'd Have thought. I drove it home only on very light throttle at about 50-60 all the way.

I did some reading too, timing seems very high it goes up to nearly 50 higher up the scale. I want the car to be safe until mapped. But more importantly i'd Like it to start reliably.

The cranking issue is the biggy though, I'll PM to You Tom, and i'll Keep in mind the other info you guys have shared. I could at least compare the two maps to see if it is way out.

I'll report back.


Thanks.

[stevex]

Actually Chris maybe that's it, the previous owner of the kit may have had a low compression motor?

Jon I read similar, hopefully that is the issue, otherwise it will be a bit annoying trying to track down the starting probs, everything else should be fine ??

[1979scotte]

Matt isn't immune to making mistakes like every other human.
Not slaging him just stating facts.
How long have you had the kit?
Tomaky sold a Thor kit this year.

[jvanzyl]

Ummmm... Didn't Matt buy that kit from him? Sorry if that's incorrect...

[stevex]

Probably, Matt bought it to fit to one of his motors, then his TVR engine had issues, so he decided to let the Thor kit go. My engine was using oil, so had a rebuilt engine done by Matt and had his kit of him for upgrades on the TTE setup.

Anyway, it runs ok, I drove it 2 hours home, just needs mapping and boost setting up and the cold start / slow extended cranking sorting.

It was lined up to be mapped by a chap he knew closer to him, but unfortantely the guy let us down, so I bought it back and have it booked in on 10th Jan with someone who deals with link ECU's.

[tomaky]

Previous engine was bone stock. You sure Matt didnt put low comp pistons in?
Ps about to email you the unlock map, when i get off trap 2 haha

[stevex]

Thanks received! Have emailed you.

Bridgeway forged rods, latest spec Toyota pistons to stop oil trouble!

Apparently the kit needed quite a few adjustments to be made, and some bits renewed before being fitted. Looks like a good job, just needs setting up right I think, shame the mapper vanished off the face of the planet and I have to wait now.

[1979scotte]

Thanks received! Have emailed you.

Bridgeway forged rods, latest spec Toyota pistons to stop oil trouble!

Apparently the kit needed quite a few adjustments to be made, and some bits renewed before being fitted. Looks like a good job, just needs setting up right I think, shame the mapper vanished off the face of the planet and I have to wait now.

That's where my rods went.
Wondered what Matt was going to do with them after he decided to move the Thor kit on.

[stevex]

Yep, they have a nice new home in my block  s:) s:)

Fancied keeping the 2, just was annoyed I bought the TTE with oil burning issues. That should hopefully be a thing of the past now  s:) s:)

When it's all set up right, it should be pretty fun.

[shnazzle]

It's a hefty bit of kit. Fair bit more "non-stock" than the TTE. Make sure you cover all aspects of the system to prevent future issues and increase stability.
Cooling, fueling, map, map, map.
Dick2ski (Dick Sloan) is running a very similar kit on a g4 as well. Might be a handy contact

[stevex]

Thanks, Matt upgraded some bits on the kit he wasn't happy with, also the manifold needed machining to sit nicer, intake pipe needed extending and various other bits were replaced. Also fitted a new rad and new pipes / clips etc, reworked and modified the loom etc, sent pictures of various stages of the engine and overall build. I bought my old engine and loom / bits back to play with, going to rebuild it at some point too.

It did have a slow cranking issue when Matt had it, he identified it to the earth strap and replaced,

Since having the car i've Done a lot (sorted suspension, geometry, wheels and tyres, bodywork, now engine etc) just need some finishing touches to bring it all together now.

It would just be nice to get it to turn over better.

I notice the base map has 35 degrees advance up to 500 rpm, seems very high, but I'm not playing with it. Still it's booked in on 10th jan with a respected link ecu dealer and tuner.

[jonbill]

Hard starting is annoying, but I'd be more worried about too much advance under load - anything more than low 30s would be a worry.

[tomaky]

Where you located Steve. would be interested to see the kit re installed.

[stevex]

Hi Jon, the timing isn't right I am sure, it starts at 35 and moves up to 54 degrees advanced higher up the RPM! I drove it home very light throttle and did 50-60 cruising most of the way, so was ok, I haven't attempted to open it up at all.

I compared it to another map I got from a chap who is running a 1zz turbo with stock motor the past 7 years with no issues, fueling is nearly the same as his map to be fair so must have had similar size injectors, but ignition is insanely advanced and there are also spots where it jumps down and up. Idle and other bits and bobs are set up very basic too, not taking into account quite a few parameters and some are just default tables. I won't be driving it for now and will transport it to the mappers on 10th Jan and leave it with him for a few days, he's going to go over everything and get it all set up properly.

I did knock down timing at cranking out of interest yesterday to 15 (was advised should be closer to 12) and it turned over much better. Leaving it for now though like I said until it's properly set up.

I am miles away from you Tom, I am down south, near Bristol  s:) s:)

[m1tch]

Perhaps there is a calibration issue with the crank sensor eg the wrong sensor has been selected in the setup of the map? Are you sure the 35 and 54 degrees are the timing and not the VVTi engagement value?

[tomaky]

Bladdy helll!
Think your doing the right thing.

[s12vea]

Leave it to the mapper to sort out to avoid damaging the setup. They will have the answers I'm sure

[tomaky]

Any update?