Boxster

[lamcote]

I've just been reading Autocar's buyers' guide for early Boxsters.

The list of things that go wrong with them is horrifying and only surpassed by the costs involved in putting them right!

I've said it before but why aren't Japanese cars better thought of than German marques?

[1979scotte]

Basically because an Avensis or an Accord are soulless beyond boring.
Japanese sports cars are great but it doesn't filter through to their everyday vehicles.
Something which ford manages to do quite well.
Back in the day even a poverty spec 316 had some fun factor.
Then there was the halo effect of the M or the AMG.
Granted Passat was pretty boring also.
This is all based on driving "older" cars.

[Chilli Girl]

Don't mention Boxster to me!  Driving home minding my own business, going the national speed limit and a tw@t in a black one overtook me tonight, completely cut me up across double white lines and if I'd accelerated 3 cars would've been written off as there was a car coming the other way! The number plate was so dirty I didn't get the reg!  Why do people drive like nutters, drink driving perhaps?  I don't know but it was very scary as he came from nowhere! Rant over!   s:D s:D

[JoeCool]

Saw this in relation to cayman Gt4's today:

Apparently a common failing with them!

[krazysteve]

Saw this in relation to cayman Gt4's today:

Apparently a common failing with them!

Quick way of slamming to the floor lol.

[lamcote]

Just looked that up. One of the Porsche forums had a question, "why is there no mention of this strut failure on the forum" paraphrasing, the answer was "well there have only been about 4 of these, whereas there have been at least 50 3rd gear failures so we have concentrated on that".

Frankly, you couldn't make it up..... Why don't these things hit the mainstream news? If it was a Toyota doing this it would be everywhere.

[StuC]

Saw this in relation to cayman Gt4's today:

Apparently a common failing with them!

That is crazy. Did they do a bridge jump or something?  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

Interestingly I saw a white early boxster coming towards me the other day. My first thought was... "Is that a 2 with a TS front bumper?!" Perhaps I have been here too long!  s;-) ;-) s;-)
In fairness though, how many early examples are there still on the road?

[lamcote]

No, just track days apparently!

[tomaky]

Saw the same post tother day. That is really poor! But as you say its really bloody rare. Whats this 3rd gear failure?

[Mikeymead]

Is that strut tower aluminium? If so the material thickness doesn't look very thick for such a load and shock bearing part of a car.

[lamcote]

Lots of mention of 3rd gear failures on the forum I looked at. I didn't investigate it any further.

However I'm not sure even 1 such strut tower failure would be acceptable in my book, let alone several, just from track day use!

Yes it is the aluminium inner wing, it does have ribs for strength, but perhaps too few by the look of it!?

NB. I should say my info on all of this was picked up from about 15 minutes reading a couple of forums, nothing more.

[JoeCool]

You'd also think that with the amount of times these things get pounded around the Nurburgring in testing, such little problems would get found and ironed out.

I still love Caymans though. Not a fan of boxsters. The main problem is the IMS fault, which can be fixed (and was fixed in a partial recall IIRC). Not a car for the faint of wallet though.

[jonbill]

I wonder how many of the 3 failures has uprated springs and dampers etc. What is the makers obligation to make the car frame proof against customer modification?

[LeoD]

German sports car servicing costs are shocking. Last summer, on a bit of a spin around Europe I noticed a couple of hairline cracks on the rear discs of the M3 in LeMans. €680 later I was back on the road. A track day in spa ate a set of tyres €800 and brake pads €450. Before I left I noticed cracks on the rear subframe €1890. Won't be going back there !!!

[lamcote]

I wonder how many of the 3 failures has uprated springs and dampers etc. What is the makers obligation to make the car frame proof against customer modification?

If the Cayman chassis really is designed to a tolerance that means stiffer springs and dampers are going to do this, then I believe there is an insufficient safety margin designed in. I have never seen this happen on another car which suggests that it is usual to design an adequate level of additional strength into a chassis, I would have thought this was not unreasonable?

I get the impression, from this and other things I have seen discussed, that the German brands have recently made an art out engineering their cars to be JUST good enough to last beyond the warranty period.

German cars used to be over engineered, robust and reliable but that just doesn't seem to be the case any more, but the Japanese do seem to have continued to retain a good level of quality.

[shnazzle]

I wonder how many of the 3 failures has uprated springs and dampers etc. What is the makers obligation to make the car frame proof against customer modification?

If the Cayman chassis really is designed to a tolerance that means stiffer springs and dampers are going to do this, then I believe there is an insufficient safety margin designed in. I have never seen this happen on another car which suggests that it is usual to design an adequate level of additional strength into a chassis, I would have thought this was not unreasonable?

I get the impression, from this and other things I have seen discussed, that the German brands have recently made an art out engineering their cars to be JUST good enough to last beyond the warranty period.

German cars used to be over engineered, robust and reliable but that just doesn't seem to be the case any more, but the Japanese do seem to have continued to retain a good level of quality.

There's always shortcuts to save costs.
Compare the interiors of luxury cars in the 90s to those now. Now it's cheap plastic galore, trims that fall off and everything feels light and dingy. It's all about making things so that they can fit multiple applications. just look at those hideous stick-on screens they put in Mercs these days Vs the beautifully built in screens they used to have.

The MR2 has a chocolate gearbox and an engine aimed at not only saving the customer money in efficiently but also the manufacturer in production and reuse of components.

Sadly the price margin where you start to see true craftsmanship and durability is ever shifting right. It now seems you need to spend at least 65k on a normal sized family car to get some level of old-school quality. And even then it seems limited to superficial quality; money spent on the parts you see/feel but the running gear and engine is still..meh..

Had a very similar conversation about a year ago with a guy that just bought a brand new Jaguar F-Pace. Had more issues than not and he said after a while you realise he'd have been better off saving his money and getting a Ford

[jonbill]

you're probably right, but a quick search for 'cracked strut tower' returns  lots of hits on E36/E46 BMWs, Hondas, MB, Toyota/Lexus, Ford , VW, GM  all on the first 2 pages.
My non scientific survey of some of those links suggest many of them were modified.
I also remember it was a thing with Nissan Z cars years ago.
Emissions regulations and customer performance expectations drive the manufacturers to make the cars as light as possible.  I imagine it would be tempting to not pay the price in those departments for making the frame thicker and stronger so a small minority of customers can put rock hard coilovers and 24" wheels on them.

[Essex2Visuvesi]

Even Saab had similar issues with the firewall cracking

[tomaky]

You'd also think that with the amount of times these things get pounded around the Nurburgring in testing, such little problems would get found and ironed out.

I still love Caymans though. Not a fan of boxsters. The main problem is the IMS fault, which can be fixed (and was fixed in a partial recall IIRC). Not a car for the faint of wallet though.

IMS is not the main problem with boxsters and caymans if anything its the least common issue. In the region of 3%.
Bore scoring is the main problem.
They fixed IMS in the 987.2.

[tomaky]

Early ones were more prone. Most common issue is bore scoring.