MOT failure

[Ardent]

@Bossworld

I believe the same caliper is used extensively acoss the toyot a ranges. Not limited to just MR2s.
I believe it is still in use now.

Age has to be a factor. Speaking with Steve, when he worked for Toyota. Never had a single one come in.
Cars get older - people stop going to dealers - dealers do not hear about the issue - no design revison required.

The design is not that bad and works when "everything" works as it should. (new) Our cars are old. And due to hydroscopic nature of brake fluid or something else. The inner gubinns seize.

Look at the fun had on the control arm thread. You only need to remove a nut and slide the bolt out. Look how that turned out. Nothing like the moving parts (or not ) buried in the piston.

[Bossworld]

@Bossworld

The design is not that bad and works when "everything" works as it should. (new) Our cars are old. And due to hydroscopic nature of brake fluid or something else. The inner gubinns seize.

Look at the fun had on the control arm thread. You only need to remove a nut and slide the bolt out. Look how that turned out. Nothing like the moving parts (or not ) buried in the piston.

Good point, but I'm on new (or refurbed at least) callipers, cables, pads and discs.

I've spoken to Mr Sloan about it before (the poor man did the handbrake cable change for me) and he's had similar.

Still an MOT pass, which is what I assume the original poster is after.
But I'm sure there's many posts on here, from when these cars were newer, lamenting the handbrake performance -
Unknown mid-wheel drive factors aside, I'd be astonished if anyone's ever felt they could do handbrake turns in an MR2 roadster.

[Ardent]

True.

Waiting for OP to confirm an interference fit at least.

[Ardent]

What SHOULD happen

The automatic adjusting mechanism maintains the operating clearance
between the pads and the rotor as the pads wear down with use. The
primary assembly which makes this possible is the Sleeve Nut and
Adjusting Bolt. The Sleeve Nut is held by the Clutch Spring which
allows it to turn in one direction only. The diameter of the Clutch
Spring is slightly smaller than the diameter of the sleeve nut and
allows it to turn in the unwind direction only. The clutch spring is held
stationary with one end attached to the piston.
When the brake pedal is depressed, hydraulic pressure forces the
piston to move to the left. The movement of the Piston exerts pressure
on the Thrust Plate and Thrust Bearing against the Sleeve Nut
causing it to be screwed out from the stationary Adjusting Bolt. The
Sleeve Nut can be easily screwed out because the Clutch Spring
unwinds and therefore does not prevent the Sleeve Nut from rotating.
The distance that the Sleeve Nut screws out from the Adjusting Bolt is
equal to the amount of pad wear.

The piston head is provided with two recesses, one of which engages
with a pin that protrudes from the backing plate of the brake pad. This
pin prevents the piston from being rotated by the automatic adjuster.
The adjusting bolt stopper prevents the adjusting bolt from rotating.
The only part allowed to turn is the sleeve nut.

When brake pads are replaced, the piston with the sleeve nut must be
forcibly rotated into the cylinder.

When the parking brake is applied, the cable attached to the parking
brake lever rotates the crank lever counterclockwise. The crank pin
then pushes the strut to the left. The strut moves the adjusting bolt,
sleeve nut, and piston toward the left. As the strut moves to the left, it
also compresses the adjusting bolt return spring. The assembly moves
until it presses the pads against the disc rotor.

When the parking brake lever is released, the compressed Return
Spring pushes the Adjusting Bolt and Piston back to their previous
positions. As a result, the parking brake is released.
During this operation, the Clutch Spring prevents the rotation of the
Sleeve Nut so that the force of the parking brake lever is transferred to
the Piston via the Adjusting Bolt.

[105e]

Huh

[jonbill]

Jason's on fire [emoji91]

[Carolyn]

He lifted that.

He's far more erudite.

[kwnelson]

Having read the posts to this article and many related previous posts, I recon many of the problems relate to pampered 2's!     You know - laid up Sorned in garaged, up on axle stands for weeks at a time, only allowed out in good weather etc.   This sort of life is not good for our 2's.   During these periods of inactivity rust can form on caliper pins, pistons and cables.   My Eric has a rough old life, parked outside on a steep hill with his hand brake jammed on, but he gets used regularly.    I went through the full range of brake woes and seem to have resolve them.   Just saying!

[shnazzle]

Having read the posts to this article and many related previous posts, I recon many of the problems relate to pampered 2's!     You know - laid up Sorned in garaged, up on axle stands for weeks at a time, only allowed out in good weather etc.   This sort of life is not good for our 2's.   During these periods of inactivity rust can form on caliper pins, pistons and cables.   My Eric has a rough old life, parked outside on a steep hill with his hand brake jammed on, but he gets used regularly.    I went through the full range of brake woes and seem to have resolve them.   Just saying!

I reckon there's a fair bit of truth to that

[1979scotte]

Mine is never pampered but serviced correctly and I still have handbrake issues.
The Mk2 caliper is pretty much the same as ours longer leaver maybe but pad is the same MK1 is different.

[ManInDandism]

The fact that there are multiple discussions on this points to the actual design being suspect regardless.

Beginning to not be able to see the wood for the trees in this thread - hope the OP gets issue resolved.

[Ardent]

Only person not here seems to be the op.

[Joesson]

He lifted that.

He's far more erudite.

Maybe/ very likely but he did it so well.
As to the question in hand and the various reasons why this a particular problem.
My PFL  first registered June 2002 that I acquired in June 2012. Two previous owners, the second one had no garage and used the car as a daily. Now on 64K my 2 has spent almost seven years being treated as a summer only car and garaged when not in use. Seldom out in the rain unless caught out. The first four services were carried out by Mr T with no reference to brake problems. Most recently undertaking by myself. Each year I have had it in my mind to do a brake overhaul, but pads and discs OK, no visible leaks and the hand brake works. Although I do the " brake pedal dance " as Carolyn calls it. I also leave my cars in gear sometimes without applying the hand brake if not on the highway. So, thus far I have done nothing to the braking system other than change the fluid every two years.
Of course, having declared this to you lot when I go out to look at my 2 in the spring I will now likely have lots of work to do.
In short my 2 has comparitively little useage, is kept dry other than when washed and the brakes are danced on regularly and at last inspection, September 2018, were passed in respect of MOT requirements.

[ManInDandism]

This is what the Repair Manual says (link lifted from someone else who had previously uploaded it on another forum).

Personally, no issues with it yet in a year of ownership though calipers and cable look like they have been replaced relatively recently by a previous owner.  I did once park on a slope and  nonchalantly apply handbrake only partially.  Alarmed to find that car started to roll back had to then yank it fully and am obviously now aware to do this always.  Also MOT tester who I am friendly with remarked that it was a bit weak - I batted this off by saying that they are all like that which I felt he already knew.

[jim_jiminy]

Thanks guys for all the advice and discussions.

My mechanic came back today to sort the breaks, (mobile guy I've known and trusted for years worked on 3 cars of mine over the years, used to be a MOT tester too) followed the instructions from here on howto adjust them. He did the work and seemed happy.

Then he took it for the retest and it failed again!

One wheel was fine, the other not effective enough. They had it on the rollers. I thought cars with LSD's shouldn't be tested like that?

The garage where very rude to him and me last time I was there. Dunno if they are just causing issues....

Now I'm stuck. New discs, new pads, new calipers, new cables....set up as advised. Piston ok, auto adjuster ok.

Only thing he said was missing where the clips.

So know I don't know what to do. He said he could do handbrake turns with it no issues.....

What now...?

[Carolyn]

Where are you?

I'd have to have look myself to figure it out.  Could be poor pads, could be other things.   

Very hard to help at a distance. 

Is the nipple on the back of the pad engaged in the slot in the piston?

PM me - let's get this sorted.

[jonbill]

It's 4wd with centre diffs you have to be careful with on brake rollers.

[Ardent]

There is a post on here some years back that covered this issue.

Lsd and rollers.

On the positive side. 1 side was ok (passed) so 50% there. Just need to mimic.

Something is at odds if your mech can do handbrake turns but the mot guy says nah.

[Ardent]

I sense the MR2 collective has now rolled its sleeves up.

[moredun]

The car had new handbrake cables put in and new calipers and discs in May 2018.

Was the right cables fitted to the car?

1) up to 08/2002
2) 08/2002-2007

I have no idea what the difference is between the cables, guessing length, mounting or maybe both.

[Bossworld]

The car had new handbrake cables put in and new calipers and discs in May 2018.

Was the right cables fitted to the car?

1) up to 08/2002
2) 08/2002-2007

I have no idea what the difference is between the cables, guessing length, mounting or maybe both.

Based on third party cables only, the facelift ones have one side longer. I don't know if anyone's ever measured the Toyota ones side by side.

(1600mm and 1610mm Borg and beck facelift)

I believe (though haven't got the time at the moment to search for it), one of the PFL sides, if not both, is quoted at 1585mm for third party cables. A parts search on eBay for 99-02 cables will confirm that one way or another.

I originally changed my cables for the cheapest ones on eBay and that resulted in a good handbrake on the left hand side, and practically none on the right. There was a post earlier in the thread asking if the equaliser plate was level. With the bad cables I had, there was a big slant.

https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=65220.0

[jim_jiminy]

Hey guys, thanks again for all the replies and advice!  I'll ask my mechanic what exact cables he fitted.

My car is a W reg MR-S import, so pre facelift.

The MOT place said offside failed and nearside only just passed. And were very rude throughout....don't trust google review that's all I can say!

I'll ask my mechanic if the nipple on the back of the pad engaged in the slot in the piston as Carolyn  asked. I'm really not that hot on the mechanical side of things. I know basics, change spark plugs, fit a air filter etc. and have done a few bits but I don't have the tools / experience to do big jobs.

This was a daily driver since I bought it and was fine after the break work.... However what started this whole thing off was when I had my mechanic service it back in may, just after I bought her, he noticed a weird spring that was put in the hand break at the adjuster on one side, and one of the inner cables was rubbing against the fuel tank....final destination style.... so that's why he recommended fitting new cables and he did and the handbreak was fine ... that was a drop fuel tank job.

Im so lost!

(:< >

[Bossworld]

Hey guys, thanks again for all the replies and advice!  I'll ask my mechanic what exact cables he fitted.

My car is a W reg MR-S import, so pre facelift.

The MOT place said offside failed and nearside only just passed. And were very rude throughout....don't trust google review that's all I can say!

I'll ask my mechanic if the nipple on the back of the pad engaged in the slot in the piston as Carolyn  asked. I'm really not that hot on the mechanical side of things. I know basics, change spark plugs, fit a air filter etc. and have done a few bits but I don't have the tools / experience to do big jobs.

This was a daily driver since I bought it and was fine after the break work.... However what started this whole thing off was when I had my mechanic service it back in may, just after I bought her, he noticed a weird spring that was put in the hand break at the adjuster on one side, and one of the inner cables was rubbing against the fuel tank....final destination style.... so that's why he recommended fitting new cables and he did and the handbreak was fine ... that was a drop fuel tank job.

Im so lost!

(:< >

The only reason I'm finding the cables of interest is that I did absolutely everything on this thread, multiple times. I had replacement callipers, changed pads twice, and the ill fated wrongly sized cables.

Result? The nearside just about held, and the offside could still spin by hand. Doesn't sound too dissimilar to the situation you find yourself in.

Without having to do anything too mechanical, if you can get the centre console out (four screws), pull the handbrake lever and watch how the equaliser plate (where the two cables attach) moves. When I had the Herth & Buss cables, they didn't move evenly and at full 'pull' there was a bad slant on the plate. I think there may be a pic for comparison in the thread I linked to above.

I appreciate you've said it was working so they may be fine. What I found was that mine could hold the car on a hill but I couldn't pass an MOT. Basically the nearside was doing the vast majority of the holding.

Good luck

[normanh]

Not too sure why people keep taking the seats out to remove the console. Its fiddly but doable using a cranked screwdriver on the front two screws. Did mine before Christmas for the MOT easy enough with a 10 mm spanner on the adjusting nuts on the shore cable to the equaliser and main cables.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-angled-screwdriver-bit-holder/2658h this similar to what I use , the screwdriver bit needs grinding down in length

Norman

[jim_jiminy]

Hey guys, thanks again for all the replies and advice!  I'll ask my mechanic what exact cables he fitted.

My car is a W reg MR-S import, so pre facelift.

The MOT place said offside failed and nearside only just passed. And were very rude throughout....don't trust google review that's all I can say!

I'll ask my mechanic if the nipple on the back of the pad engaged in the slot in the piston as Carolyn  asked. I'm really not that hot on the mechanical side of things. I know basics, change spark plugs, fit a air filter etc. and have done a few bits but I don't have the tools / experience to do big jobs.

This was a daily driver since I bought it and was fine after the break work.... However what started this whole thing off was when I had my mechanic service it back in may, just after I bought her, he noticed a weird spring that was put in the hand break at the adjuster on one side, and one of the inner cables was rubbing against the fuel tank....final destination style.... so that's why he recommended fitting new cables and he did and the handbreak was fine ... that was a drop fuel tank job.

Im so lost!

(:< >

The only reason I'm finding the cables of interest is that I did absolutely everything on this thread, multiple times. I had replacement callipers, changed pads twice, and the ill fated wrongly sized cables.

Result? The nearside just about held, and the offside could still spin by hand. Doesn't sound too dissimilar to the situation you find yourself in.

Without having to do anything too mechanical, if you can get the centre console out (four screws), pull the handbrake lever and watch how the equaliser plate (where the two cables attach) moves. When I had the Herth & Buss cables, they didn't move evenly and at full 'pull' there was a bad slant on the plate. I think there may be a pic for comparison in the thread I linked to above.

I appreciate you've said it was working so they may be fine. What I found was that mine could hold the car on a hill but I couldn't pass an MOT. Basically the nearside was doing the vast majority of the holding.

Good luck

Wow this does indeed sound like my issue!

OK I will have a go at looking at the equaliser plate this evening after work.

I've asked my mechanic what cables he has ordered. They were Pagid ones from Eurocar parts but I want to check the right ones were ordered.

Also he said there are no nipples on the pads fitted to mine?

Cheers!