Caps Maf Riser Mod

Mark A · February 6, 2016, 14:58

What's the max power 310cc injectors will support?

Anonymous · February 6, 2016, 16:18

I recon about 230 at max. Also its best not to run injectors at their max, aim for about 90%

1979scotte · February 6, 2016, 16:29

I have 440cc in mine.
Sp240 kit.

Bugster_MR2 · February 6, 2016, 20:03

I run this mod and still running 95 octane. More response. Feels much better than stock. I love it.

Maybe I should have had a knock monitor. But I have not noticed anything bad so far.....

shnazzle · February 6, 2016, 20:42

Well Cap says you need to run at least 91 Ron in the US. I think 91=95. Could be wrong.

Samuel · February 11, 2016, 10:23

I've run this mod with RON95 also for more than a year now. Like the torque and don's have any issues with the car.

charl1ey · September 25, 2016, 21:10

I've currently got my stock injectors being cleaned. Some advice on the Maf mod will it only improve low end torque with the 2zz injectors or would I notice any response improvement doing it with clean stock injectors? Is it worth investing in the 2as injectors how much noticeable difference is normally gained? Finally with the maf mod on stock or 2zz injectors is there serious possibility of engine knock and how bad could this be. Im trying to work out if the performance gains warrant the risk.

shnazzle · September 25, 2016, 21:17

No risk of knock. Have to use the mod exactly as designed. The rise of the MAF and removal of veins, and then paired with the 2zz injectors is the perfect balance.

There's no risk really.

charl1ey · September 25, 2016, 21:50

Great thanks, two final q's im not using the stock air intake either I'm using a PPE air filter imported from the US will this make any difference to the way this mod works in your opinion. Also any ideas on where to get hold of the maf risers/spacer?

shnazzle · September 25, 2016, 22:26

Your best bet will be to have a look on the MAF mod thread on Spyderchat. There's a hell of a lot of thought and time gone into it. The way I understand it, it's a case of following a very specific recipe of parts.

As for the riser, you can try on Spyderchat or make one yourself out of a thick plastic. As long as the height is identical (don't know what the height is)

Cap · September 28, 2016, 02:52

Alex..

The MAF Mod was the result of troubleshooting some 1ZZ PPE intakes that did not run well, and 2ZZ Swaps that did not run well either. All of this was done in the States. The MAF Mod's 'Kit Form' allows it to be a Reversible improvement with little fuss.

The bench marks of the mod were taken from a Stock intake system, and a Stock USDM ECU.

My perceptions are, the USDM and JDM ECU's are somewhat similar for Ignition advance curves, with the '03 and later USDM Ecu's having a less aggressive Ignition Curve than the previous years. Also I noticed the '03 and later 1ZZ USDM ECU's have a fuel enrichment Programming that will take the AFR's well into the 13's with just the slightest hint of moving the Throttle.. where the 00-02 ECU's will stay in Stoch during minor throttle movements.. The Thought here was this was a 'Fix' to prevent the Dreaded Pre-Cat-Syndrome.. But that is a discussion for another Post..

For your situation, you will want to match the results on a Custom Intake.. Not hard but you'll need to do a little testing.

1) Install the Yellow Injectors
2) Install the Spacer
3) Check for Drivability.. and Look at Fuel Trims..

The 'Bench Mark' I used was a Long Term Fuel Trim of about -7.. it will range from about -5 to about -10.. If you are More Negative than -10 then you will need to raise the MAF.. if you are More Positive than -5 you will need to Lower the MAF..

All the MAF Mod does, is fool the ECU into thinking the engine is LESS loaded than it is.. so it will give MORE ignition advance.. The Side effect of this is the ECU will also give LESS Fuel.. So the two choices are Raise the Fuel Pressure or install bigger injectors.. I chose the Injectors as it simpler to do.. but either will work..

The Yellow Injectors were my first stopping point.. I set the MAF height to give a MID 12's AFR at WOT.. my STOCK set up was running in the 11's!.. My Next step was to go to the 'Brown' Injectors and Trim MAF Height to give 12's AFR at WOT and check drivability.. That never happened..
My 1ZZ is now Sporting a Crower Stage 1 Cam.. so any work I do will not be reflective of a Stock Machine.. The MAF Mod and the Stock ECU are playing nicely with the Stage One Cams.. The car scoots nicely now.. So I've stopped tweeking on it.. Also I've moved over to a 90's 300 ZX NA as my Daily Driver.. so the Spyder is not getting the miles it was..

With my STOCK engine I was getting Heat Soak Problems on +100F days on LONG drives pulling hills.. that is why I recommend bumping up the RON number.. California has 87RON!.. and I had to go to 91 to stop the Heat soak issues.. (91 is all we can get in the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia ) So I just run the 91 all the time as an insurance policy.. Winter I'll run 87 if it's not expected to get hot..

Learn what Engine Pre-Ignition/Knock sounds like.. If you hear it you have tuned it improperly..

I like to start out with Lo Octane fuel.. as I will hear the knock and it will let me know where on the Engine Load it happening.. then I can always Bump Up in Fuel to cover it..

Good Luck..

Cap

shnazzle · September 28, 2016, 06:16

All this time I never knew you were a member on here as well!

That was one informative post. Thanks Cap!

Essex2Visuvesi · September 28, 2016, 10:34

This is where a 3d printer comes into its own,
Once you have the design you can tweak the thickness to match your needs then get a permanent one machined at the correct height.

Cap · September 28, 2016, 13:54

I have one.. It's called a Lathe..

The Spacer raises the MAF about 5.8MM in the Stock Box.. If you look at the MAF, it has a 'Step' about 5.7 mm Down.. the Spacer raises it a Smidgen higher than that..

Some people make a big fuss over the O-Ring Seal.. I do not run one and have chosen not to get involved in the chatter of those who say it's necessary..

Cap

shnazzle · September 28, 2016, 14:59

Quote from: "Cap"I have one.. It's called a Lathe..

haha! Kids with their fancy toys eh?

I didn't understand the o-ring thing... doesn't that change the height of the maf again? Seemed odd.

Cap · September 28, 2016, 15:45

The MAF has an O Ring in a groove.. So the use of it ( Or Lack of it's use ) does not cause a height change..

However, you can place a larger diameter O Ring under the MAF mating surface to act as a spacer and raise it up.. A 6MM Cross section O ring is rather hard to find.. s:)

s:)

Cap

charl1ey · September 30, 2016, 16:38

Cap Thanks for the wealth of information. It's opened up a new depth of understanding for me. I'm going to get a Bluetooth OBD to be able to measure my fuel trims. At the moment don't know exactly what they are all I know is I get a very good mpg and frequently get 320+ miles out of a full tank so am presuming I'm not burning rich or lean...? Anyway thanks again and to Dan for other advice. Will let you know how I get on.

Petrus · January 14, 2020, 20:09

Quote from: Cap on September 28, 2016, 02:52Alex..

The MAF Mod was the result of troubleshooting some 1ZZ PPE intakes that did not run well, and 2ZZ Swaps that did not run well either. All of this was done in the States. The MAF Mod's 'Kit Form' allows it to be a Reversible improvement with little fuss.

The bench marks of the mod were taken from a Stock intake system, and a Stock USDM ECU.

My perceptions are, the USDM and JDM ECU's are somewhat similar for Ignition advance curves, with the '03 and later USDM Ecu's having a less aggressive Ignition Curve than the previous years. Also I noticed the '03 and later 1ZZ USDM ECU's have a fuel enrichment Programming that will take the AFR's well into the 13's with just the slightest hint of moving the Throttle.. where the 00-02 ECU's will stay in Stoch during minor throttle movements.. The Thought here was this was a 'Fix' to prevent the Dreaded Pre-Cat-Syndrome.. But that is a discussion for another Post..

For your situation, you will want to match the results on a Custom Intake.. Not hard but you'll need to do a little testing.

1) Install the Yellow Injectors
2) Install the Spacer
3) Check for Drivability.. and Look at Fuel Trims..

The 'Bench Mark' I used was a Long Term Fuel Trim of about -7.. it will range from about -5 to about -10.. If you are More Negative than -10 then you will need to raise the MAF.. if you are More Positive than -5 you will need to Lower the MAF..

All the MAF Mod does, is fool the ECU into thinking the engine is LESS loaded than it is.. so it will give MORE ignition advance.. The Side effect of this is the ECU will also give LESS Fuel.. So the two choices are Raise the Fuel Pressure or install bigger injectors.. I chose the Injectors as it simpler to do.. but either will work..

The Yellow Injectors were my first stopping point.. I set the MAF height to give a MID 12's AFR at WOT.. my STOCK set up was running in the 11's!.. My Next step was to go to the 'Brown' Injectors and Trim MAF Height to give 12's AFR at WOT and check drivability.. That never happened..
My 1ZZ is now Sporting a Crower Stage 1 Cam.. so any work I do will not be reflective of a Stock Machine.. The MAF Mod and the Stock ECU are playing nicely with the Stage One Cams.. The car scoots nicely now.. So I've stopped tweeking on it.. Also I've moved over to a 90's 300 ZX NA as my Daily Driver.. so the Spyder is not getting the miles it was..

With my STOCK engine I was getting Heat Soak Problems on +100F days on LONG drives pulling hills.. that is why I recommend bumping up the RON number.. California has 87RON!.. and I had to go to 91 to stop the Heat soak issues.. (91 is all we can get in the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia ) So I just run the 91 all the time as an insurance policy.. Winter I'll run 87 if it's not expected to get hot..

Learn what Engine Pre-Ignition/Knock sounds like.. If you hear it you have tuned it improperly..

I like to start out with Lo Octane fuel.. as I will hear the knock and it will let me know where on the Engine Load it happening.. then I can always Bump Up in Fuel to cover it..

Good Luck..

Cap

My appologies for reviving an old thread but it remains to the point. I just pulled the trigger on a set that has been circulating appearantly unused in the club for some time.

The highlighted bit is for Shnazzle.

A slight ´glitch´ observed by some is the fuel cut off on pedal lift when say on a downhill or otherwise cruising. This fuel save mode on the overrun is present anyway though not very prominent. It gets more promiment with the MAF mod as the ecu perceives less flow and may shut off earlier. It is not a technical issue.

I would like to add that the ECU operates in both open and closed loop. In closed loop the O2 sensor is leading for the fueling. When those sensors get a bit older and less sensitive this is more critical with the MAF mod.

Bugster_MR2 · January 14, 2020, 20:49

Yes, I have noticed the same glitch. Not a problem. Just more noticeable as you are saying.

Gaz mr-s · January 14, 2020, 22:29

Those of you running this mod, what effect does it have on fuel consumption?

And if anyone reading this wants the maf spacer, I have a spare.

jvanzyl · January 14, 2020, 23:01

When I ran it I don't remember there being much of an effect on the fuel but I think my mpgs slightly increased.

Petrus · January 15, 2020, 09:20

Quote from: jvanzyl on January 14, 2020, 23:01When I ran it I don't remember there being much of an effect on the fuel but I think my mpgs slightly increased.

The ignition advance should be more eefficient, hence the better response and slightly better hp.
The larger injectors has no extra enrichment because of the O2 sensors.
Any increase in fuel used should be the brain enjoying the quicker go; the car would be slightly more frugal if you´d drive the same, but that would entirely defeat the purpose...

Petrus · January 15, 2020, 09:34

Something else; the alcohol % in what we get from the pump.
The E5 is 5%, E15 .... yes 15%.
Alcohol runs cooler and burns slightly slower. The latter should have hardly effect on the combustion because of the designed turbulence but the former will. Problem is that there is no publicly available information so whát the effect is?

The MAF mod though will, if anything, be better suited to alcohol addition.

Here some infomercial https://epure.org/about-ethanol/fuel-market/fuel-blends/

tom256 · January 15, 2020, 10:51

Quote from: Petrus on January 15, 2020, 09:34Something else; the alcohol % in what we get from the pump.
The E5 is 5%, E15 .... yes 15%.
Alcohol runs cooler and burns slightly slower. The latter should have hardly effect on the combustion because of the designed turbulence but the former will. Problem is that there is no publicly available information so whát the effect is?
The MAF mod though will, if anything, be better suited to alcohol addition.

Here some infomercial https://epure.org/about-ethanol/fuel-market/fuel-blends/

You can add IPA to fuel to increase cetane number. Around 0.5l per 50l of gasoline. However I never used it.

I'm using Archoil AR6900-P MAX which increase fuel quality, and lately I bought Oilem. And seems like car engine works more smoothly, and somehow car is more responsive. Definitely mpg increased, somewhere between 5-10%.

Interesting how it would work with MAF mod.

https://www.oilem.com/blog/difference-between-hybrogen-and-ar6900-d/

Petrus · January 15, 2020, 11:12

Quote from: tom256 on January 15, 2020, 10:51Interesting how it would work with MAF mod.

It would make no difference.
The pump 95 is good enough.
It nowadays being E5 just adds to it being enough.

Now íf you would go up the equivalent of a southern slope of the Alps on a hot summer day with no traffic, then simply fill up with 98 in the vallye.
It is noteworthy that, at least here, the 98 has no alcohol.