So, just purchased my Garrett GT2554, Obx Sump, waiting for a reply for the T25 manifold (unless anyone has one spare?). Cars in for MOT and Exedy stage 1 clutch next week. waiting for a reply from charlotte at rrrengineering to get an idea of lead times for booking in for ECU and Mapping.
its finally underway!!
I will produce as concise a list as possible for those wanting to complete a turbo build.
watch this space!
Yo go girl!
Good work, everything coming together nicely
This is going to be an awesome build.
Great turbo for a stock 1zz these make over 200 @ the wheels on M X 5s and probably more on a 1zz with a great ECU and tune.
Wickedly quick spool.
And if you ever decide you want more power pretty much a straight swap for a GT2860RS.
Although you would need to forge the engine.
What actuator or spring is included with the turbo?
Don't forget an oil feed restrictor.
Pretty sure this is needed with ball bearing turbos on a 1zz due to high oil pressure.
It's going to eat TTE and SP turbos for breakfast.
I'm looking forward to this a lot!!
A lot of thanks to all of you guys who have been advising me. Even up to this stage I wouldn't have such great choices in kit if it weren't for the experience I've been offered.
I'm just getting the internally wastegated option so couldn't really tell you :-\ must remember to get one!! Lol.
I was just thinking that if the default setting on the wastegate actuator is 14psi if the boost solenoid stops doing its thing then you may end up with a blown engine so it would be better to have a 7psi spring.
However with EMU BLACK it's probably got safety's built in anyway.
Hmm. I don't know if this is a thing but you can wind out the actuator and adjust he boost on spring pressure? So my plan to get from Southampton to Cambridge was to basically wind it out so I was effectively bypassing the turbo or running 1-2 psi max.
I think I read somewhere that they come 7.5 psi stock. Will confirm today.
Thanks for pointing this out!!
Quote from: dan944 on February 23, 2018, 08:09
Hmm. I don't know if this is a thing but you can wind out the actuator and adjust he boost on spring pressure? So my plan to get from Southampton to Cambridge was to basically wind it out so I was effectively bypassing the turbo or running 1-2 psi max.
I think I read somewhere that they come 7.5 psi stock. Will confirm today.
Thanks for pointing this out!!
7.5 should be fine and what I'd expect that turbo to come with. I'd still do your best to stay out of boost. Your best boost control is your right foot.
Quote from: shnazzle on February 23, 2018, 10:17
7.5 should be fine and what I'd expect that turbo to come with. I'd still do your best to stay out of boost. Your best boost control is your right foot.
I'll put a brick under the accelerator :P
Just been quoted £150 to fit my Exedy stage 1 organic clutch that cost £265(tmsmotorsport) by the guys down at Hendy performance. quite luckily know them through family. Cars booked in for the 10th for clutch and MOT. Also after chatting to their Tech supervisor I've found out they are actually a pretty high spec garage who have recently refurbished and sold Colin Mcrae's Mk1 focus!! I'll let you know how that goes although I imagine they will be highly recommended to you southerners!
Struggling to get in touch with the Danish company for the t25 manifold so will look to get the one from Bulgaria and get a T3-T25 adaptor.
That's all so far
Advice required.
Are siemens 630cc injectors too excessive for 200whp. or will they just run comfortably? can get a set with adapters for £160 new.
Quote from: dan944 on February 27, 2018, 16:43
Advice required.
Are siemens 630cc injectors too excessive for 200whp. or will they just run comfortably? can get a set with adapters for £160 new.
440cc would be good enough for your application.
That is a good price for a set of 4 with adaptors.
Are they a straight swap?
Toyota fit denso injectors to most of their engines.
There is a thread here saying that they use them. just the plugs that are different. these come with EV1 plugs and connectors so just Denso female connector req'd and some wire to knock out some adapters.
so are you saying that they are too large i know that 470s from the VXR are recommended but will there be any ill effect?
No ill effect that I am aware of.
If you had a piggyback ECU then they would be too large but with a full standalone you are fine.
Assume you have read this?
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=57836.0
yeah thats the one i was referring to.
its where i decided to check out the siemens Deka. will purchase those now :D
parts list coming along nicely..lots of shinies being delivered :D
many thanks @1979scotte (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=20268)
Had to bite the bullet. £270 for the cast T2 manifold from Turbokits. He knocked £20 off total frice which should cover some of the tax.
lots of shiny bits arrived at home but ive yet to lay my hands on it. gonna throw some seafoam in the oil as ill be dropping it when putting the sump on anyway so may aswell clean the insides before she get another hundred ponies going through her.
Powerflow swindon currently cant do 2.5" pipes :( so need to phone next week to see if theyve got their act together.
picking up oil,filter and spark plugs from halfords this weekend (trade card :D) then thats me with everything except the intake pipework (which i think will be half the battle!) and exhaust.
have a very concise list and so far have spent £2812. thats including ECU (with map and fitting) probably over budget slightly but when arent we.
Few questions to those who made it thus far.
Whats the O/D of the non return valves required?
if im running a wideband will i need the stock lambda sensors using an ECUmaster standalone?
Where the hell to Vac lines go? its probably the thing im most clueless about and researching makes no sense :-\
wheres the best place to plumb in an IAT?
Does MAF disappear completely with standalone?
Theres probably more but my head hurts (:< >:)
thanks in advance guys
Dan I think your in Southampton? have you tried southampton wheel and tyre in totton? They are a powerflow dealer. I used them for a repair on my Janspeed and they did a good job. They do some pretty high end cars?
Cheers mike,
weirdly i'll be doing all the work in lyneham as thats where i have access to a workshop.
thank you though. depending on how my temporary exhaust is i may take her home. always prefer local ;D
Would be good to see your build at some point. Just up the road from you when your in southampton.
Im planning on getting to as many of the meets this summer as possible for ROC, MR2OC and MR2DC so hopefully we'll cross paths at at least one. if not we'll hold our own southerners meet :D
IAT would be after your intercooler.
MAF can go in the bin and I am pretty sure you bin the normal O2 sensors.
Vacuum is for your blow off valve, boost controller (port at the back of the EMU), brake servo (don't have to worry about the obviously) and a rising rate fuel pressure regulator if you were to get one (very much advised but not required at all)
Btw I paid 3k fitted for a secondhand turbo kit that wasn't anywhere near as good as this is going to be.
Btw have you looked into insurance?
Thank you @shnazzle (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=18356), do I just get a vacuum block and stick them both into that? or as I only have two can I just plumb the ECU to the BOV direct?
@1979scotte (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=20268) that makes me feel a little better. The manifold price is a bit of a stinger but in total its not far off what I budgeted for, and I have got some pretty good quality parts in honesty. insurance has more than doubled :o to be expected I suppose.
Will be nice to see what the 0-60 times are on this when its done, will use the OBD reader to time it.
More questions,
Compressor outlet is 2". Throttle body is 3". I was thinking a 1/2" step up straight from Compressor then another one before throttle body. or does it not matter?
Also, still need the Diameter of the non return valves if anyone knows it?
Quote from: dan944 on March 1, 2018, 09:18
Thank you @shnazzle (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=18356), do I just get a vacuum block and stick them both into that? or as I only have two can I just plumb the ECU to the BOV direct?
@1979scotte (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=20268) that makes me feel a little better. The manifold price is a bit of a stinger but in total its not far off what I budgeted for, and I have got some pretty good quality parts in honesty. insurance has more than doubled :o to be expected I suppose.
Will be nice to see what the 0-60 times are on this when its done, will use the OBD reader to time it.
More questions,
Compressor outlet is 2". Throttle body is 3". I was thinking a 1/2" step up straight from Compressor then another one before throttle body. or does it not matter?
Also, still need the Diameter of the non return valves if anyone knows it?
You won't need a vacuum block. It's handy if you have lots of devices that require vacuum. You can do if you want, it's cheap enough and makes it a nice clean install and if you want to add a rising rate FPR in the future you can just tap into there. In the meantime, just T-pieces will do.
Wouldn't worry about outlet to TB sizes as there will be intercooler piping in the way which won't be 3" either :)
Not sure on the size of the non-return valves. I'd have to go measure but I'm not going on in this weather hahaah
Thank you ;D
I would NOT expect you to go out in this weather! haha
I can check this weekend when I get back to look at the car.
So...vacuum hose from BOV directly to back of ECU with a 'T' piece to boost gauge. correct?
this is all prior prep to try and make the build go as smooth as possible :D
Quote from: dan944 on March 1, 2018, 10:36
Thank you ;D
I would NOT expect you to go out in this weather! haha
I can check this weekend when I get back to look at the car.
So...vacuum hose from BOV directly to back of ECU with a 'T' piece to boost gauge. correct?
this is all prior prep to try and make the build go as smooth as possible :D
No no. The bov and and boost controller (ECU in this case) both connect to a vacuum source
And this is why I check these things :D
Suitable vacuum source on the '2?
So where does the boost gauge attach? Anywhere post turbo?
See now you're starting to get into vacuum block territory :)
That's 3 devices,so you're best off with a 4-port block.
One good vacuum feed is the tube that goes from the manifold into the blue VSV valve on the top left of the engine.
So, T into that, with one end going into the vacuum block and the other side back into the VSV.
Then connect the boost gauge,EMU and BOV to the vacuum block.
Awesome. Now I'm getting somewhere ;D
Once I get the spark plugs I've ordered everything except Intake pipe work. They don't hold them in store apparently. (:< >:)
Ok so what have we got? For a decent 230+ hp setup
Injectors (470cc minimum), with fresh seals.
1deg colder spark plugs. NGK BKR6 or BKR7 maybe
Oil return bung high up in sump.
Oil feed from the oil pressure sensor with adapter. Restrictor in oil feed to reduce pressure.
Turbo manifold with new manifold to block gasket
Water and oil lines mounted to turbo (pain to do once on). Check wastegate actuator motion
Turbo mounted to manifold with new gasket
Attach oil feed and return to sump and pressure sensors adapter.
Tap into water with two T pieces from a feed pipe (pre-engine). Attach to water input and output on turbo.
Intake, as you're going MAF-less, can be a 3" pipe from throttle body
IAT boss in pipe by throttle body
Pipe continue to intercooler output with a BOV in it.
Vacuum pipe from vacuum block to BOV vacuum nipple
Intercooler input to turbo outlet using good clamp (think of the pressure it has to endure!)
Air feed to turbo. Good induction kit with wide pipe and heat protection.
Exhaust outlet from turbo to downpipe (connected to cat most likely). Wideband just before the cat, at about 10-15deg from horizontal
Cat to backbox with gaskets
One way valve in PCV to engine pipe and intake to rocker cover.
EMU installed and wired in (including plugging into IAT and Wideband (plugs supplied on harness by RRR on request.
Vacuum pipe from vacuum block to back of EMU.
Vacuum pipe from vacuum block to boost gauge.
Updated clutch.
Fluids (coolant and oil,might as well do gearbox as well)
...I think that's it
Miss anything?
You sir. Are a legend :-\
I'll double check this when I've had less wine but I'm pretty sure I have all of the above. Except the car at the moment :D
And the exhaust. And the intake....the list goes on.
Manifold arrived from America today (Turbokits.com)
Not bad considering I ordered it Thursday
Also received:
630cc siemens Injectors,
3 x MT 90
Compressor flange
IAT Boss
hopefully it'll all be delievered by the end of the week then start fitting!!
Odd question.
When fitting a turbo its said that a non return valve should be placed in the PCV pipe.
I purchased a non return valve and a PCV as I thought I may aswell.
when checking both these items, the operate exactly the same, so whats the point in the non return valve when essentially that's what the PCV is.
Does the PCV have a very low Pressure tolerance?
Just curious really.
Ps. Think ive managed to clock the turbo all by myself. very proud :)
A fresh pcv should do the trick for the boost levels you're looking to run. It's a safety.
I'll stick it in anyway but when playing with the parts I was confused that they both did the same..
fitting starts sat morning!!
Another question. Could I disconnect the intake pipe between turbo and TB and stick the filter in to get me to Cambridge. that would give me pretty much normal operation.
or would that damage the turbo? overspeed or something?
Hmm.. That's not something I've ever considered haha.
The turbo would indeed have no resistance at all but would be spinning like mad...
Personally I'd just plumb it all in and set the wastegate of the turbo to basically just bleed air permanently so that you never really hit more than a couple psi boost.
Or get a temporary actuator spring for the lowest possible boost.
The lowest I can find is a 0.3 bar spring. That's just over 4psi. That should be grand for stock injectors and the ecu should compensate fueling accordingly.
I wonder if you can just adjust the preload on the actuator rod such that the valve is always open. So basically you'd be putting in a permanent boost leak.
I thought about changing the preload but mine doesn't give the option....
Unless!!! ( BRAINWAVE )
If I disconnect the actuator rod from the wastegate valve it will just flap freely. Effectively eliminating boost?
Anyone got any science on this?
Where's @Carolyn (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=22891) when you need here haha
Small lump of wood jammed into the wastegate. ;)
That's science for you!
Damm beat me to it
I wired the wastegate open on my R5 Turbo in order to drive it to the rolling road, much safer than leaving it flapping around
Disconnect the wastgate arm from the actuator, and then tie it with some sturdy wire to something in the open position
Spot on.
Knew there must be a way. Haha.
Thank you all.
As always. Much appreciated :)
Together we'll get there in the end haha.
Well done on the quick progress on the hardware btw
Thanks but its down to you guys really. It's the combined knowledge that stopped me from buying a black label kit and has enabled me to buy everything i need. which reminds me i forgot the oil drain hose (facepalm)
biggest issue ive had is getting the adaptor correct for the oil feed line to sandwich plate. 3rd time lucky!!!
Quote from: dan944 on March 19, 2018, 17:07
Thanks but its down to you guys really. It's the combined knowledge that stopped me from buying a black label kit and has enabled me to buy everything i need. which reminds me i forgot the oil drain hose (facepalm)
biggest issue ive had is getting the adaptor correct for the oil feed line to sandwich plate. 3rd time lucky!!!
Funnily enough I was just wondering the other day where to get one.
Any chance you can post a link and part number?
Which part? im sure i can oblige
the problem i have is that the oil feed is female an-4, sandwich plate is female 1/8 bpt, restrictor is male 7/16unf - male an-4.
i didnt realise that one end of the restrictor wasnt flared until the weekend. so not the question is how to rectify this. :s
Bloody plumbing. I've got drawers full of fittings (from doing the rocket car) and I still end up at the hydraulics supplier buying the right one!
Figure out what you need and go to a hydraulics shop.
I think i'm going to have to.
at this rate i might take the whole bloody lot with me!!.
i think the issue is the restrictor so going to order a new one which is an-4 to an-4 and that should negate this issue.
Taking the 'whole bloody lot' is my usual approach.
THIS is plumbing!!!
:o :o :o Oh bejesus!! :o :o
i just want to get the one adaptor right and ill be chuffed..haha
Turbo Water Lines.
TTE says put them in series.
RAD-TURBO-BLOCK-HEADER
others say in parallel
RAD-TEE-TURBO and BLOCK simultaneously - HEADER
running them parallel says to me that they both get cooler water supply than getting "second hand" coolant from the other.
Brain says TTE has more money and sense than i do.
Opinions??
Series.
In parallel there will be less water pressure through the water lines to the turbo, which means heat won't dissipate as quickly.
Turbo is hotter so it will be the last one in the series to add its heat before it goes to the radiator.
Make sure your water radiator is in good shape and fans are working.
Buy a new rad they're not expensive
Thank you guys. As always, much help.
Quote from: 1979scotte on March 20, 2018, 07:42
Buy a new rad they're not expensive
already fitted one :)
mines only single fan, is it worth getting another from scrap and wiring it in parallel to the standard. I can't remember why there's only one :-\.
Going ballsy and buying intake pipework in advance. I know what layout i want so just hoping the angles and lengths are correct.
Quote from: dan944 on March 20, 2018, 08:27
Thank you guys. As always, much help.
Quote from: 1979scotte on March 20, 2018, 07:42
Buy a new rad they're not expensive
already fitted one :)
Wouldn't do any harm but I never had an issues with mine over heating.
mines only single fan, is it worth getting another from scrap and wiring it in parallel to the standard. I can't remember why there's only one :-\.
Going ballsy and buying intake pipework in advance. I know what layout i want so just hoping the angles and lengths are correct.
So...I'm an idiot. After buying multiple adapters and restrictors (and not working still) I take all the fittings off the turbo, only to find....the banjo bolt is all ready a restrictor!!!! PLEB!!!! Just need a big pair of circlips to finish clocking the turbo now :)
Make space in the garage and pick up all the intake pipe work tomorrow then Saturday it begins...finally!!
So, things went well today. Have a little bit left on the intake, then plumb in the boost gauge whilst I wait for my exhaust appt :).
So the question is. How do I relocate my catch tank thing. Can I just rip out the metal pipe work and feed my own in wherever I want?
You don't have a catch tank. You mean the evap cannister? If leave that to be honest.
Adding a catch tank is a good idea mind.
That's that one lol. Think I've got the answer from d!ck Sloan.
Just going to move tank to the other side.
Will look at getting a catch tank though.
Anyone got advice on how to fit side scoops. I've got them sprayed up ready to fit and wondering if no more nails was the best option. I feel they should be screwed to get them really secure?
Tigerseal is your best bet, no more nails sets rock hard and offers no flexibility for movement
Thank you :notworthy:
Quote from: wotugonado on March 27, 2018, 10:29
Tigerseal is your best bet, no more nails sets rock hard and offers no flexibility for movement
Agreed. Make sure you can build some way to push the scoops onto the car though. They do flex a bit. Tape alone doesn't do it.
I had two wood boards lodged between some bricks that stick out on our drive and the scoops, with microfibre cloths to protect the scoops.
Hmmm. It's in the garage at the moment so might be easier to go off the garage walls. Thanks again!!
Power flow exhaust booked in for Tuesday :)
Just waiting for some more vac line to run a line for the ecu and to connect the boost gauge. Also need a new filter as my bmc wont fit so that'll be up for sale as well as some other bits :( apart from that I think I've finished my part of the build. :) wasn't hard at all tbh. Hope I get a good outcome!!!
I'd put pics up but don't know how :s
Quote from: dan944 on March 27, 2018, 10:40
Hmmm. It's in the garage at the moment so might be easier to go off the garage walls. Thanks again!!
Power flow exhaust booked in for Tuesday :)
Just waiting for some more vac line to run a line for the ecu and to connect the boost gauge. Also need a new filter as my bmc wont fit so that'll be up for sale as well as some other bits :( apart from that I think I've finished my part of the build. :) wasn't hard at all tbh. Hope I get a good outcome!!!
I'd put pics up but don't know how :s
Sweet!
Tell you what... Your thread definitely inspires me towards turbo.
As many will know, I've been back/forth between 2zz power build, 1zz build, or turbo (or sc).
It changes all the time.
I was put off the 2zz idea I think... But not sure
But your turbo journey has been pretty painless hasn't it.?
It really has been easy work. Very enjoyable work as well.
The biggest part for me was the prep. Getting ALL the correct parts that work together. I couldn't have done that without the help from yourselves.
I've learned a lot about forced induction that I didn't know. Mainly the vac side of things lol.
Looks like we may have a fairly long wait to get booked in at RRR which is going to kill me but then it will be complete!!
Very much looking forward to seeing what one of these can do with an extra 100hp.!
Quote from: shnazzle on March 27, 2018, 12:05
Quote from: dan944 on March 27, 2018, 10:40
Hmmm. It's in the garage at the moment so might be easier to go off the garage walls. Thanks again!!
Power flow exhaust booked in for Tuesday :)
Just waiting for some more vac line to run a line for the ecu and to connect the boost gauge. Also need a new filter as my bmc wont fit so that'll be up for sale as well as some other bits :( apart from that I think I've finished my part of the build. :) wasn't hard at all tbh. Hope I get a good outcome!!!
I'd put pics up but don't know how :s
Sweet!
Tell you what... Your thread definitely inspires me towards turbo.
As many will know, I've been back/forth between 2zz power build, 1zz build, or turbo (or sc).
It changes all the time.
I was put off the 2zz idea I think... But not sure
But your turbo journey has been pretty painless hasn't it.?
2zz or turbo/SC why no V6?
Apart from fuel consumption.
Quote from: 1979scotte on March 27, 2018, 13:16
Quote from: shnazzle on March 27, 2018, 12:05
Quote from: dan944 on March 27, 2018, 10:40
Hmmm. It's in the garage at the moment so might be easier to go off the garage walls. Thanks again!!
Power flow exhaust booked in for Tuesday :)
Just waiting for some more vac line to run a line for the ecu and to connect the boost gauge. Also need a new filter as my bmc wont fit so that'll be up for sale as well as some other bits :( apart from that I think I've finished my part of the build. :) wasn't hard at all tbh. Hope I get a good outcome!!!
I'd put pics up but don't know how :s
Sweet!
Tell you what... Your thread definitely inspires me towards turbo.
As many will know, I've been back/forth between 2zz power build, 1zz build, or turbo (or sc).
It changes all the time.
I was put off the 2zz idea I think... But not sure
But your turbo journey has been pretty painless hasn't it.?
2zz or turbo/SC why no V6?
Apart from fuel consumption.
Lots of reasons for me personally but the main one is the ability to piece together parts over a long period of time. I can't afford a big wallop of an expense in one go.
And I've learned so much in the way of do's and don'ts with regard to turbos that frankly that's where my comfort lies.
2zz I think I'd be disappointed with but a turbo 2zz does hit the mark. But frankly, cost/benefit of 2zz turbo vs 1zz turbo... The extra expensive of the swap isn't worth it.
It's either turbo or positive displacement SC.
Also... I'd be more than happy with 230ish break.
Quote from: shnazzle on March 27, 2018, 13:23
Quote from: 1979scotte on March 27, 2018, 13:16
Quote from: shnazzle on March 27, 2018, 12:05
Quote from: dan944 on March 27, 2018, 10:40
Hmmm. It's in the garage at the moment so might be easier to go off the garage walls. Thanks again!!
Power flow exhaust booked in for Tuesday :)
Just waiting for some more vac line to run a line for the ecu and to connect the boost gauge. Also need a new filter as my bmc wont fit so that'll be up for sale as well as some other bits :( apart from that I think I've finished my part of the build. :) wasn't hard at all tbh. Hope I get a good outcome!!!
I'd put pics up but don't know how :s
Sweet!
Tell you what... Your thread definitely inspires me towards turbo.
As many will know, I've been back/forth between 2zz power build, 1zz build, or turbo (or sc).
It changes all the time.
I was put off the 2zz idea I think... But not sure
But your turbo journey has been pretty painless hasn't it.?
2zz or turbo/SC why no V6?
Apart from fuel consumption.
Lots of reasons for me personally but the main one is the ability to piece together parts over a long period of time. I can't afford a big wallop of an expense in one go.
And I've learned so much in the way of do's and don'ts with regard to turbos that frankly that's where my comfort lies.
2zz I think I'd be disappointed with but a turbo 2zz does hit the mark. But frankly, cost/benefit of 2zz turbo vs 1zz turbo... The extra expensive of the swap isn't worth it.
It's either turbo or positive displacement SC.
Also... I'd be more than happy with 230ish break.
Won't clog up Dan's thread but if that's the sort of power you are happy with then it's 1zz turbo all the way.
It's when you want more that a 2zz comes into its own.
So much stronger internally.
Would most of the kit be transferable to the 2zz? Apart from the manifold?
Pretty much yes. Ecu would need a remap for the addition of lift
Quote from: shnazzle on March 27, 2018, 15:06
Pretty much yes. Ecu would need a remap for the addition of lift
Disagree.
2zz flows much more air.
You would want a larger turbo.
Imho.
Quote from: 1979scotte on March 27, 2018, 15:39
Quote from: shnazzle on March 27, 2018, 15:06
Pretty much yes. Ecu would need a remap for the addition of lift
Disagree.
2zz flows much more air.
You would want a larger turbo.
Imho.
Much more? The 2554 isn't at the top of the efficiency range on the 1zz,surely there's enough bandwidth?
If not, replacing it with Gt28 isn't too hard
I'm still not convinced that a turbo would suit the nature of the 2ZZ. Supercharging seems the more complimentary way to go to keep the character of the engine.
Dan when are you booked in to RRR?
Quote from: mikek on March 27, 2018, 16:21
I'm still not convinced that a turbo would suit the nature of the 2ZZ. Supercharging seems the more complimentary way to go to keep the character of the engine.
Continued in
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=64822.0
Quote from: mikek on March 27, 2018, 16:24
Dan when are you booked in to RRR?
I'm not yet. I've been waiting for the answer on them cracking the code lol
If there is this interim solution that is proposed then I shall be booking ASAP as I'm on two weeks leave at the moment.
Also I'm dying to get this thing on the road and now it's not me that's holding things up. Lol.
I've not been on here much recently but the kit you are building is very similar to the one that I built and have running on my car.
I used the GT2554r turbo too replacing the wastegate actuator with a 0.5bar (7psi) version, and it does make the car very lively!
I'm in New forest area so hopefully I'll see you at one of the meets.
This is how mine did on the Dyno
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/7348b3e19dddf38d1301d0d41829bdd6.jpg)
Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk
Quote from: monsi on March 27, 2018, 18:51
I've not been on here much recently but the kit you are building is very similar to the one that I built and have running on my car.
I used the GT2554r turbo too replacing the wastegate actuator with a 0.5bar (7psi) version, and it does make the car very lively!
I'm in New forest area so hopefully I'll see you at one of the meets.
This is how mine did on the Dyno
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/7348b3e19dddf38d1301d0d41829bdd6.jpg)
Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk
No way!! You're just down the road then.
From what I gathered the standard actuator that comes with it is 7psi?
What does it actually come at?
Is that 170 bhp or whp? I was hoping for a little more than that really so will try to run rad higher boost if that's the case.
Must be whp
Even the TTE turbo makes more than that. On paper at least.
Hope so :(
Just did another google and apparently the actuator pressure is 10 psi. Should be good for the magic 200 :)
Yes quite a coincidence! You'll have to let me know if you want to come and have a look.
I think the turbo only comes with a 1 bar actuator which is too high for a standard 1zz. I brought a 0.5bar one although I'm not sure of the part number and made up a mounting bracket.
The Dyno figure is whp and was finally a bit higher that as I was originally using the standard clutch that slipped as soon as the torque came in.
The car does feel very lively with this much power and it spools nice and quickly. My next move would be to setup the boost control which would further improve the spool and power!
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Quote from: dan944 on March 27, 2018, 19:45
Hope so :(
Just did another google and apparently the actuator pressure is 10 psi. Should be good for the magic 200 :)
This is going to make 200 whp or 230 at the fly easy.
You've got a full standalone ECU big injectors etc etc.
Unless your intake temps are massive this is going to be a little rocket ship.
Also not going to tell the Tuner his job but the SP240 turbo hit 10psi in the mid range but tapered off to 7 at redline supposedly for engine longevity I believe.
It's a bigger intercooler than the TTE/SP240 so intake temps should be quite decent on Dan's setup. Location of the intercooler isn't as good though so it might end up being 6 and 2*3
Quote from: shnazzle on March 27, 2018, 20:15
It's a bigger intercooler than the TTE/SP240 so intake temps should be quite decent on Dan's setup. Location of the intercooler isn't as good though so it might end up being 6 and 2*3
Charge cooler would be better but it should be fine for this sort of power.
Probably loose a few horses on a hot day.
Ooh I'm all excited again now. I like the sounds of rocket ship. Does anyone know how you post pictures by the way? Didn't there used to be a thread on this?
How would I go about finding the rating of the actuator? Check for a part number? If it's 10 then I'll leave it but like you said if it's 1bar then I'll have to get something new :/.
I'm hoping I can get decent air flow to the IC where she is but may have to make a scoop of sorts.
From what Scottie was saying you might be better off going for the 7psi actuator anyway then use boost control to increase it. I'm sure that's how the SP240 worked to reduce the stress on the engine.
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Quote from: monsi on March 27, 2018, 21:41
From what Scottie was saying you might be better off going for the 7psi actuator anyway then use boost control to increase it. I'm sure that's how the SP240 worked to reduce the stress on the engine.
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Out of my depths again ::) lol
What do I need to get and how does it work lol.
Quote from: dan944 on March 27, 2018, 21:36
Ooh I'm all excited again now. I like the sounds of rocket ship. Does anyone know how you post pictures by the way? Didn't there used to be a thread on this?
How would I go about finding the rating of the actuator? Check for a part number? If it's 10 then I'll leave it but like you said if it's 1bar then I'll have to get something new :/.
I'm hoping I can get decent air flow to the IC where she is but may have to make a scoop of sorts.
Either upload using the attachment option or use something like imgur
Quote from: monsi on March 27, 2018, 21:41
From what Scottie was saying you might be better off going for the 7psi actuator anyway then use boost control to increase it. I'm sure that's how the SP240 worked to reduce the stress on the engine.
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Yup. Tis the easiest/safest way
Here's how the IC Sits.
The theory is quite straightforward, but the ECU needs to have the feature. The vac hose from the inlet goes through a solenoid controlled by the ECU to the waste gate actuator, the ECU can then open or close the solenoid allowing pressure through to the wastegate.
So if you have a 7psi wastegate but the ECU is commanding 10 psi it opens the solenoid so the wastegate doesn't see the extra boost until it's almost there then closes the solenoid the wastegate immediately opens limiting the boost to 10psi, this happens over and over again very quickly. As a bonus because the wastegate doesn't see the boost slowly building it doesn't begin opening too soon improving the spool.
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Love it. It's engineering genius.
Any recommendations on a boost controller?
Also need to check my actuator tomorrow :s
Quote from: dan944 on March 27, 2018, 22:01
Love it. It's engineering genius.
Any recommendations on a boost controller?
Also need to check my actuator tomorrow :s
Black has boost control built in :) And very good one at that
I'd check and see if the standalone ECU you're getting will do it. If not It's is possible to use a spare pwm output but thats a bit less sophisticated.
Otherwise there are dedicated boost controllers on the market, have a search and see what the SP240 used.
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All sorted then! Just need a solenoid :-)
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I really need to read up more on this ecu.
Honestly, if it had a flux capacitor I wouldn't be surprised.
So any electronic boost solenoid recommendations?
Quote from: dan944 on March 27, 2018, 22:29
I really need to read up more on this ecu.
Honestly, if it had a flux capacitor I wouldn't be surprised.
So any electronic boost solenoid recommendations?
Yes. The MAC one recommended by ecumaster and sold by RRR hahsa
Touché lol
Just bought the same solenoid for £20 less and checked the actuator and it's the 7 psi one as standard. Very pleased :)
Quote from: dan944 on March 27, 2018, 22:43
Just bought the same solenoid for £20 less and checked the actuator and it's the 7 psi one as standard. Very pleased :)
Win!
I'm assuming we can keep our existing one as well.
So close eh? :)
It is a fully featured ECU as good as anything out there under 2k.
Of course it does boost control even the DET3 PIGGYBACK does it.
7 psi spring on the wastegate is perfect.
Engine won't go kaboom if the failsafes umm fail.
Happy Boosting.
I'm always smiling when I drive the 2.
I think I may just burst the first time I drive her on boost :D
Again, thank you for the information everyone.
So SO close now.
Quote from: dan944 on March 27, 2018, 22:58
I'm always smiling when I drive the 2.
I think I may just burst the first time I drive her on boost :D
Again, thank you for the information everyone.
So SO close now.
Previous car history please.
Bearing in mind this is probably going to turn out to be Boxster S quick.
My history is pretty lame.
Always been family car types, even though I don't have kids ..curious lol.
Audi a3s, Mitsubishi Lancer (diesel), the current Honda CR-V.
But rest assured I'm not a loon. I love a spirited drive but I have had the '2 for 8 years so do respect her limits. It'll be like having her for the first time again :) lol
Got a filter that fits!!
Now just to get the pipe work!
Can't wait to get this exhaust made up!!
Quote from: dan944 on March 29, 2018, 15:58
Got a filter that fits!!
Now just to get the pipe work!
Can't wait to get this exhaust made up!!
I don't know how you're running your pipework, but I put my filter down below the passenger rear light to avoid drawing in hot air from the engine.
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Mine runs a little different. It runs to the RH side vent. Will run ducting and heat shield in combo. Should be pretty cool. (Excuse the pun) lol
Ah... My turbo is fitted the other way round(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180329/efd3b1c9e02e1f4c31a1943a36b48096.jpg)
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For some reason, with the turbokits manifold, I couldn't seem to configure it to sit nicely the other way.
I'm not sure what make my manifold is but it has a T3 turbo flange so I needed an adaptor to fit the turbo, which probably gave the space needed to turn it round
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Ahhh. That explains. I nearly bought one of those lol.
About to take the car to power flow. It won't idle. What's the minimum I need to get it to idle. Maf is connected but not in the air flow. I'm sure I have run it like this in the past though
O2 sensors? Obvs I don't have an exhaust. Do I connect or don't i?
Are the new injectors in?
No. Ended up removing the MaF. Runs like poo but got me there lol
Nearly finished with the exhaust. They love the car so are actually doing a very thorough job. A lot better than they have been in the past. Haven't heard it yet though!!!
"they love the car"
Exhaust fabricators with extremely good taste then by the sounds of it.
That and the fact it's not a massive amount of work
I'd go with the small amount of work lol
:)
Look forward to the pics
Here's one before the hangars got welded in. It's gonna have to do for now as forgot to take one of the finished product.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180403/31c8f9de87cb8f9b27548709325173ab.jpg)
So, where's best to put the boost control solenoid? In the bay fairly close to turbo or close to the ecu.
My bets would be on close to Turbo but thought I'd check.
Also where's best for the solenoid outlet to go? Back into the intake post turbo?
Quote from: dan944 on April 3, 2018, 17:39
So, where's best to put the boost control solenoid? In the bay fairly close to turbo or close to the ecu.
My bets would be on close to Turbo but thought I'd check.
Also where's best for the solenoid outlet to go? Back into the intake post turbo?
Just vent to air. It's just air :)
And it makes a satisfying little hiss noise.
I was just thinking that venting it to intake would keep spool speed up as no pressure is lost then. But I suppose it's a tiny amount.
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Won't make a difference to spool speed. As long as the air isn't going back into the turbo, nothing is getting k the way of said spool
Of course not!!!
Where's the facepalm emoji!! Lol
Exhaust is good very very mellow. Just a slight grumble. Managed to get a lookalike standard tip to finish it nicely :)
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I'd put the boost solenoid near to the turbo but somewhere that won't get too hot.
When boost solenoid is open its only venting the pipe from the solenoid and wastegate to the atmosphere. The feed from the inlet will be sealed so no loss of any precious boost!
It'd probably be worth fitting one of the little brass filters to avoid any dirt finding its way into the solenoid vent port.
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No problems, thanks for the info.
I'll hook that up tomorrow as well as do some more fettling and try and add another temporary pipe for the Maf to see if it runs any better.
Maybe add the side scoops.
I really need to get booked in to RRR to get this thing boosting!!
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As promised. Moved the IC a little and changed the pipe work today as wasn't happy with how it was sitting.
Pics to follow.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/d1bda8947bd1c868c5994c39cf9432fd.jpg)
I'm no expert just curious, but shouldn't the exhaust hanger on the left be attached to the box and not the pipe. Is that going to stress the Flexi joint as it's supporting the weight of the box ?
Hmm. This seems valid. Makes sense. Possibly as it was too far and they've just used the one that was there and overlooked this.
Power flow have the lifetime warranty so I think that will be brought up if there's any deterioration at all.
Thanks for pointing that out though.
Quote from: dan944 on April 3, 2018, 14:43
Here's one before the hangars got welded in. It's gonna have to do for now as forgot to take one of the finished product.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180403/31c8f9de87cb8f9b27548709325173ab.jpg)
Tis a thing of beauty.
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I didn't want to rain on your parade, but thought I would mention it. Like I say I have no exhaust fabricating knowledge so it could be perfectly acceptable for all I know.
I just think with that big can rattling around on the Flexi it might be an issue down the line. Lifetime guarantee though 8) at least it won't cost you if it needs repairing.
Thanks for noticing. Only 12 month on the flexi though.
Wish this rain would bugger off!!
Quote from: dan944 on April 4, 2018, 12:39
Thanks for noticing. Only 12 month on the flexi though.
Wish this rain would bugger off!!
Might be worth asking the question now then.
So, I have finished everything I can do up until this point. I have some questions to clear things up.
Vac lines. Again!!
I currently have:
Blue solenoid to vacuum block.
Block to gauge
Block to EMU
Block to pipe that comes from fuel cage and normally goes to charcoal canister (which now doesn't exist)
So looking at it today realised that's not correct can I have some help in correcting it please....again.
Shnazzle has his loom built so you shouldn't be long for your ecumaster black :D
We'll see :s
Depends if I can sort these bloody vac lines. Haha
Quote from: dan944 on April 6, 2018, 19:00
So, I have finished everything I can do up until this point. I have some questions to clear things up.
Vac lines. Again!!
I currently have:
Blue solenoid to vacuum block.
Block to gauge
Block to EMU
Block to pipe that comes from fuel cage and normally goes to charcoal canister (which now doesn't exist)
So looking at it today realised that's not correct can I have some help in correcting it please....again.
You deleted the fuel vapor canister? Are you sure you want to do that? And if you have, have you put a 1-way valve on the line from the fuel tank to allow pressure to be released?
The vacuum for the VSV is a good place to tee into to get vacuum. Basically the opposite end of the VSV from the canister.
Have you left the PCV system as it is?
Added a pic. You can see the T off from the back of the VSV (top right of pic) and then another T bottom left for the boost controller. Instead of that, yours would go into the block. Much tidier(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180406/376166d54454fb2cfd6d6b10017da1bc.jpg)
Deleting the canister was pretty much a must.
So I need a one way in the line from the tank to the solenoid. Correct? Because to me that makes sense.
Also there's a line from the solenoid to the TB by the looks of things. Is that correct?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180406/1eb5e20456252186c6b17da593e6ae69.jpg)
I've put the one way valve in the pcv it otherwise it's standard.
I need a one way valve from the tank to the solenoid.
I've plumbed the solenoid to the vac block.
This made sense as it's taking the same route as the canister was but with the vac block In line.
Now I'm confused again.
Is there a way I can check if it's routed correctly? :/.
P.S. also do I need to block off the pipe from the TB to the solenoid or does the solenoid do that job?
Lots of confusion here methinks :)
PCV with check valve: good. Pcv should be OK low boost but why risk it right?
Now VSV...
Have you just removed the canister but you're still connecting the VSV to the pipe that goes to the fuel tank unfiltered?
Interesting question on the need for a check valve. I suppose if we're not trusting the pcv,why would we trust the vsv to hold boost? Helen's car doesn't have a check valve on the vsv line from intake mani to vsv (it connects to the intake mani, not throttle body).
I guess yes, if you want to be 100% safe, add a small check but it may be overkill.
CV system has the pcv valve on the cover and connected to the intake mani, and a breather pipe from the back of the cover to the front of the throttle body. So blowby gasses are sucked up the crankcase by the intake manifold vacuum to be burned again and the "space" is replaced by metered air from the breather hose (top of throttle body), so the crankcase is never under pressure.
When the mani is under boost, the pcv stops pressure being built up in the crank case. The pcv isn't always strong enough, so you add a check valve.
The turbo creates suction on the breather pipe, which creates a vacuum, but only to a certain point. At higher boost levels, it overcomes the vacuum of the turbo and blowby goes into your intake. Not good, so need a check there too.
So much confusion. I apologize but there is something about vac lines that fry my head.
Canister removed, then line from blue solenoid (vsv?) to vac block, vac block to tank, unfiltered. The other pipe on the solenoid I've left to the intake mani.
Then I have ecu and gauge also on the vac block.
Crank breather at the back has a filter on it and other end is blocked off.
Picked up a Bosch innovate wideband for £59.99. Better than the £99 at RRR :)
Quote from: dan944 on April 7, 2018, 10:37
Picked up a Bosch innovate wideband for £59.99. Better than the £99 at RRR :)
Which sensor Dan? Brand new?
LSU 4.2 or 4.9.
If 4.2 I would send it back or secondhand.
It's the 4.9, brand new. Comes under BMW sensor.
Quote from: dan944 on April 7, 2018, 10:45
It's the 4.9, brand new. Comes under BMW sensor.
Got a picture?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/8af18b197383b72e20cca49d2d1e03e2.jpg)
Next question is the connector the same as the ECUmaster?
They use a Lsu 4.9 so can only assume it's correct. If it is wrong when I get there then I'll buy the one from RRR and return this one.
Part numbers match as far as I can see though.
It's all good then.
That's very cheap.
I wanted an IAT sensor from RRR started out at 25 ended up at 40 with vat and delivery.
Reminded me why I bought my Det3 elsewhere.
I'll get the IAT from them as it's only £30 as I'll be collecting. Also I got confused by the different types when I was looking to buy one so £30 I can deal with.
I remember the vac and pcv lines being a bit of a nightmare....
I took a t off in the same place as shnazzle (after the butterfly of the throttle body) this feeds my ECU, recirculation valve and vacuum reservoir (for my exhaust valve).
Before the throttle body and after the charge cooler I have a takeoff that feeds to the wastegate actuator. This is where the boost solenoid would go.
This is what I have done with the pcv inspired by standard turbo engines. I added a check valve inline with the pcv valve (yes the valve is a one way valve, but is designed to avoid backfires entering the engine not continuous boost pressure and it's only plastic) the clean air vent and the back of the valve cover goes via a catch can to the air inlet before the turbo.
I have kept the evap system, but without it I guess you would remove the solenoid you have pictured block the manifold end and vent the fuel tank end via a filter (possibly some sort of fire arrester too?)
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My boost solenoid is here.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/69525c12ecab9179291c5dfd45f6f311.jpg)
I got my IAT sensor from efi-parts with the connector it cost about £25 with postage. They give you all the calibration data so it should be quite straightforward to setup.
I found fitting it into the silicone hose to be awkward, the fitting I ordered didn't allow the sensor to sit in the air flow so needed modifying...
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Nice, I got the boss from them. Getting it welded in to a 63mm pipe which will replace my maf pipe
If you're using a metal joiner you could just drill it and bolt it through as long as you use some silicone or rubber washers to seal it.
I would be tempted to get a filter for the unused solenoid port something like
https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Solenoid-Valve-Pneumatic-Filter-Noise-Silencer-1-4-PT-Thread-Jsuaj/183147622000?epid=1138234611&hash=item2aa472ee70:g:snkAAOSwOh9auI3P
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I have some guys at work who can weld ally so will drop it in with them next week.
Unused solenoid pipe? Both of mine are used :/. One goes to the vac block and the other to the intake mani.
This is a night mare! The only part that's been difficult about the whole build is understanding these things!!
On a side note. I'm getting wastegate flutter (demented squirrel) albeit just a tiny bit. But should that be enough to register on my boost gauge?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/117252a9fafb3233b5eb8a1cc6004b46.jpg)
Here's what I've got. Because a picture paints a thousand words.
You boost solenoid will have three ports, the third port is on the opposite side to the one from the manifold. That is where the vacuum from the wastegate actuator is released.
Until you have an ECU capable of understanding boost you want the wastegate held open. I would expect that you would see some boost on the gauge, if the wastegate is operating.
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Ahh crap!!! Yes sorry. The boost solenoid does have a brass filter on it. I thought you meant the other little blue solenoid.
Sorry again. Also should've mentioned My wastegate is currently wired open. That's why I'm a little confused at the wastegate flutter and then also not seeing any boost on the gauge.
I don't recommend you run it like that, the solenoid is supposed to allow fuel vapour from the charcoal canister into the engine when warm. The way you have it at the moment your boost gauge and ECU feed is isolated from the intake until the solenoid closes. So from your last post yes it is quite possible that you are making boost but the gauge won't show it. When the solenoid is closed you will either suck fumes from the fuel tank running rich or pressurise the fuel tank under boost!
You want the inlet manifold to connect directly to the boost gauge and ECU. You'll have to have a search for what to do with the fuel tank vent I think there were post's on spyderchat about it.
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Dan, by solenoid do you mean the VSV? If so you need to not run your car this way :)
Exactly that. I'm changing it this afternoon. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180407/457a38589b49e6f91fdb622fb88dc624.jpg)
Is this better?
Connected at the inlet Nani now not he fuel tank vent.
That's better
Well thank you for this. Patience of saints the lot of you!!!
Thinks a better diagram of that needs to be bookmarked haha
That's better your boost gauge and ECU will work properly now, but you can't connect the fuel tank vent to the inlet manifold.
The new ECU probably won't drive the vsv solenoid so you might as remove it, then as suggested here pipe the fuel tank vent to a filter under the car.
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fspyderchat%2Ecom%2Fforums%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Fp%3D913320&share_tid=58261&share_fid=3075&share_type=t&share_pid=913320
I haven't done this so do your research and make sure it's safe!
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So looking at it, it seems fairly simple and safe.
I'll sort that out today. Thanks again guys.
Sorted now. Getting as high as about 0.25 psi which is fine and it's seems to cope fine with that. Runs really well. Nice bit of demented squirrel. Can't wait to be able to connect the actuator rod to the wastegate flapper and get some actual boost going!!!
My car is faster? I did not expect this. Not yet at least.
I'm getting fractional boost. It's the nicest that my car has EVER been to drive, and fastest.
Is this going to blow it up? Am I fairly safe. It feels very good. Finally managed to bleed that damned coolant system. Takes me at least a week every time! I've really got the bug back, and hard!
Also, change of plan.
I was leaning towards a stripped out, road legal track car.
Now, I want heated seats, good quality music, an armrest.
Boost is boost. Even 0.25psi is still more than stock. So you're probably at about 155 hp or so. Enough to notice. And the way it is delivered makes it more noticeable.
Just wait until it's mapped. It'll blow your socks off. And with the 630cc injectors, you're good to push 10.5psi all the way to the redline. Good times ahead!
Quote from: shnazzle on April 8, 2018, 16:05
Boost is boost. Even 0.25psi is still more than stock. So you're probably at about 155 hp or so. Enough to notice. And the way it is delivered makes it more noticeable.
Just wait until it's mapped. It'll blow your socks off. And with the 630cc injectors, you're good to push 10.5psi all the way to the redline. Good times ahead!
Would you push 10.5 psi on Helen's?
I don't think I would have done it on mine. Not at max RPM.
What's the most boost a stock 1zz has survived?
I think that's lees? Isn't he running 12? But I think he said himself it's well ovedue blowing up.
Can I clarify though that it "shouldn't" blow up? It can deal with a tiny bit of boost?
And you're right. I shall not be wearing socks to Cambridge as they will be thoroughly blown off.
Glad I was persuaded out of the BOV.
That noise is addictive already.
Quote from: dan944 on April 8, 2018, 16:32
I think that's lees? Isn't he running 12? But I think he said himself it's well ovedue blowing up.
Can I clarify though that it "shouldn't" blow up? It can deal with a tiny bit of boost?
Stock ECU will compensate fine for .25 psi.
Is Lee running 12? Brave.
That's ok then.
I'm sure he said that.
He said "running 12 psi is stupid" and think he said he doesn't know how it hasn't blown up.
Hat off to him. It's been running that for a while as well.
Quote from: 1979scotte on April 8, 2018, 16:30
Quote from: shnazzle on April 8, 2018, 16:05
Boost is boost. Even 0.25psi is still more than stock. So you're probably at about 155 hp or so. Enough to notice. And the way it is delivered makes it more noticeable.
Just wait until it's mapped. It'll blow your socks off. And with the 630cc injectors, you're good to push 10.5psi all the way to the redline. Good times ahead!
Would you push 10.5 psi on Helen's?
I don't think I would have done it on mine. Not at max RPM.
What's the most boost a stock 1zz has survived?
Helen's is built to run 10.5, but it tails off at higher rpm.
The injectors (440cc) don't flow enough to be able to hold that boost up the rev range on a returnless fuel line.
Just think, on a returnless line, 43.5psi fuel pressure is reduced to 33psi at 10.5psi boost. So, that's a fair bit of fuel it ain't gettin.
Helen could opt for a return fuel rail and then boost can be maintained throughout the range, but she doesn't want that much power anyway. I would :)
Return fuel rail with a RRFPR is on the list. Then I may think about tweaking maps myself....maybe.
Quote from: shnazzle on April 8, 2018, 16:56
Quote from: 1979scotte on April 8, 2018, 16:30
Quote from: shnazzle on April 8, 2018, 16:05
Boost is boost. Even 0.25psi is still more than stock. So you're probably at about 155 hp or so. Enough to notice. And the way it is delivered makes it more noticeable.
Just wait until it's mapped. It'll blow your socks off. And with the 630cc injectors, you're good to push 10.5psi all the way to the redline. Good times ahead!
Would you push 10.5 psi on Helen's?
I don't think I would have done it on mine. Not at max RPM.
What's the most boost a stock 1zz has survived?
Helen's is built to run 10.5, but it tails off at higher rpm.
The injectors (440cc) don't flow enough to be able to hold that boost up the rev range on a returnless fuel line.
Just think, on a returnless line, 43.5psi fuel pressure is reduced to 33psi at 10.5psi boost. So, that's a fair bit of fuel it ain't gettin.
Helen could opt for a return fuel rail and then boost can be maintained throughout the range, but she doesn't want that much power anyway. I would :)
I am going to wait for you guys to run 10.5 psi at redline for a few months before I try doing that with my 1mz.
If 1zz rods can take it mine should too.
A rising rate FPR and bigger pump are on my eventual to-do list.
Actually you reminded me, the rods can't take it, another reason why boost tails off
Then I'll be railing mine off :o lol.
I just realised something... What made you go for 2554r over the 2560r/gt28?
2554?
Because I was told to.
Better spoil up speed and still get the power I want.
Please tell me that's correct because i don't think I can return it now. Lol.
No no that's fine, you chose well.
Just that the spool difference is so low at 7-10psi and the 60 allows for a bit more power (if you ever fancied it) and runs a bit cooler.
2554 is a very solid choice
Ahh. Well I would recommend this one in the future then. Haha.
Just been looking at a suspension refresh. Feeling very guilty with my 95k dampers.
I feel a big pay out is imminent :/
Quote from: shnazzle on April 8, 2018, 22:12
I just realised something... What made you go for 2554r over the 2560r/gt28?
It's cheaper.
Spools quicker.
Makes more power than he specified.
Pretty much then same size as the TTE turbo but with ball bearing cartridge and more modern turbine design.
If an Sp240 makes 235 with a tb2559 30 year old design this is going to pass that with ease. Imho.
Quote from: dan944 on April 8, 2018, 22:30
Ahh. Well I would recommend this one in the future then. Haha.
Just been looking at a suspension refresh. Feeling very guilty with my 95k dampers.
I feel a big pay out is imminent :/
Mate you are kidding me.
You've forked out for a turbo without a suspension refresh.
Like who does that. EVER!
Me actually although I would advise against it. :withstupid:
Reliability then handling than power which then invariably means you have to re address the other 2 (:< >:)
Bracing and brakes are all sorted. I have tte springs but standard shock which look in good nick and handles well. I have a full polybush kit that I'm slowly replacing as I take stuff off.
After reading that other thread it got me thinking about my shocks. I don't have a history on them :/. Could be time for a change.
Quote from: 1979scotte on April 8, 2018, 22:41
Quote from: shnazzle on April 8, 2018, 22:12
I just realised something... What made you go for 2554r over the 2560r/gt28?
It's cheaper.
Spools quicker.
Makes more power than he specified.
Pretty much then same size as the TTE turbo but with ball bearing cartridge and more modern turbine design.
If an Sp240 makes 235 with a tb2559 30 year old design this is going to pass that with ease. Imho.
Was just curious as to the reasoning is all. As I said the spool difference is negligible (on paper) and it's more efficient across the same range of power.
Also curious as to the power goals long-term. The way Dan is going, I can see a similarly effortless inclined to 280ish hp, which the gt28 is right in the money for.
I would go for gt2554r as well :) I'd only go bigger for a sexy BW EFR :) dem tings be sexy as f00k
EFR come with all the bells and whistles.
Bit more expensive than what Dan has bought.
Just looked at the efr. It's pretty sexy.
What model is belt suited to the 2.
6758?
Just looking at these and for future reference. It's a straight swap. :)
Quote from: dan944 on April 9, 2018, 07:25
Just looked at the efr. It's pretty sexy.
What model is belt suited to the 2.
6758?
Just looking at these and for future reference. It's a straight swap. :)
Whatever the smallest one is.
I think they come with the same flange.
Fair one. That's on the long term list :)
It's an incredible bit of kit. And the built in boost actuator and stuff is just showing off.
Probably wouldn't spend that much on a turbo for the 2 mind. I think it warrants a 10k+ stock car for it to not make yoy cry
Haha. True but £1200 including solenoid,recirc valve and what I assume will be a rapid spool?
That's tempting. Lol
Quote from: dan944 on April 9, 2018, 07:47
Haha. True but £1200 including solenoid,recirc valve and what I assume will be a rapid spool?
That's tempting. Lol
I seem to remember people saying they were torque monsters so the gearbox could be an issue.
It's between a 6258 and a GTX2** for a built 1zz money no object
Dan. Prompted by your sale thread it got me thinking and looking at your install again...
You like the BMC and it is a carbon box, which is great against heat soak.
So... Have you considered the MASSIVE space behind the driver's rear light? The BMC should fit in there easily and makes it much easier to clean. The only issue might be the pipework.
Potentially saves a lot of exposed pipework going through the hot engine bay.
Hmm,, I'd have to have a look again. I think I did consider this. I can't remember trying to fit it in though.
The issue is that I'm already running boost pipes through there which makes it tight.
The pipes don't seem to be getting hot at all at the moment even thoughts it's extremely close to the head. And I've not even carbon wrapped them yet :)
No worries then! Leave as is
I can hear it sucking air right beside my head where it is :) sounds good!!
Quote from: dan944 on April 10, 2018, 08:15
I can hear it sucking air right beside my head where it is :) sounds good!!
Ah that is very nice indeed :)
All of this talk about your build and figuring it out has made me realise how bad a Helen's build actually is in some areas. The beloved SP240....
It's all very high quality kit; top of the range materials and the fabrication is stunning.
But... A maf-based fueling strategy with the MAF before the turbo? It's no wonder it leans so very heavily on the map of the piggyback. The stock ECU doesn't really stand a chance! It has no idea how much air is actually going into the car.
And then further compounded by the difficulty of tuning a car with a return less fuel rail, having to adjust for changes in fueling as load increases.
Further emphasized by unplugging the TPS (forces the car into permanent open loop), the car runs much better but is sluggish on the throttle.
All in all, once you're set up with the ecumaster, you'll have a fundamentally well-built and thought out setup.
Kudos!
This is definitely my favourite turbo build.
I think it's perfect for stock engine and gearbox.
The only thing I would differently would-be to run a charge cooler.
It's the ECUmaster deal that makes it all possible otherwise you would be looking at more like 2k to get a link fitted and mapped.
The previous cheaper options where less than ideal piggyback or PFC.
Thanks guys. I'm really pleased with the outcome already and CANNOT wait to get the go ahead from Charlotte.
That drive from Cambridge is going to be amazing.
As I've said it's a credit to the club and how the pooled knowledge is astounding.
PS. I just couldn't justify the chargecooler...yet ;)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180512/322b35b0ccd3a98401cef6f8e8d9bc4e.jpg)
Little snap whilst I had it off after having the new bing welded in. Note to those who want something similar.
Don't put the wideband where I did. It doesn't fit.
She runs!! And well!! At 5 psi though. Manual boost controller inbound and will start to lean the figures out a little.
Got there in the end fella. Well done! :)
Fantastic news! Poop! poop!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Very pleased. Have a really peculiar issue at the moment that I've been chatting to @shnazzle about.
My MAF readings from obd are about -2. I know it's something to do with the emanage as when I put it back to stock ecu it registered correctly. Anyone have any ideas?
Finally sorted the MAF issue. Was an incorrect jumper. Even though I've hacked them a dozen times. I managed to get a pic of Lee's emanage and it had a setting different to that in the manual. Oh well!! Done now lol.
Quote from: dan944 on May 25, 2018, 22:08
Finally sorted the MAF issue. Was an incorrect jumper. Even though I've hacked them a dozen times. I managed to get a pic of Lee's emanage and it had a setting different to that in the manual. Oh well!! Done now lol.
Wahay! Good times now :)
Plumbed in the manual boost controller at the minimum setting. Ran to 9.8 psi at its lowest setting. Think I may need to modify the spring :s.
Quote from: dan944 on May 26, 2018, 06:53
Plumbed in the manual boost controller at the minimum setting. Ran to 9.8 psi at its lowest setting. Think I may need to modify the spring :s.
Not the first person I've heard of having issues with manual boost controller.
They had the same wouldn't go below 10psi.
Be careful.
Too small boost controller obviously. Can't bleed the air off quick enough.
Is it 9.8 spike or 9.8 max?
I never had the chance to check tbh. I haven't had time to drive with it properly to see what it's doing. I only did a lap of the block to see where I was at a start point.
On a brighter note. Pulled the rear wings off yesterday and screwed the side scoops on from the inside. Now they are solid!! Haha
https://youtu.be/HxpU8UQqpLk
Best run at 5 psi
https://youtu.be/-2_WsZhoTi0
Best run of the day.
I think a little bit of wee just came out... love the little squeak at the end on run down! Well played Sir...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oh my that sounds glorious :)
I feel it sounds very airy. Like it may suck small children into the vent.
Quote from: dan944 on July 2, 2018, 09:50
I feel it sounds very airy. Like it may suck small children into the vent.
Always a good thing. Kids are highly overrated
I'd like to know if the backfire at very high revs is ok or not. Any ideas?
Quote from: dan944 on July 2, 2018, 10:16
I'd like to know if the backfire at very high revs is ok or not. Any ideas?
Considering how short your exhaust is, expected I'd say. Don't go full throttle at night with cops behind you hahaha
Will you be looking for a chargecooler and that extra 2psi Dan?
I can remember when I first got my sp240 and how rapid it felt but soon got used to it.
Quote from: 1979scotte on July 2, 2018, 10:46
Will you be looking for a chargecooler and that extra 2psi Dan?
I can remember when I first got my sp240 and how rapid it felt but soon got used to it.
Possibly. I'll be speaking with Greg over the next few weeks and see what the crack is.
I reckon it would go as far as 270bhp with chargecooler. Which would be nice.
But running lower boost should be better for the engine for now.
Quote from: dan944 on July 2, 2018, 10:55
Quote from: 1979scotte on July 2, 2018, 10:46
Will you be looking for a chargecooler and that extra 2psi Dan?
I can remember when I first got my sp240 and how rapid it felt but soon got used to it.
Possibly. I'll be speaking with Greg over the next few weeks and see what the crack is.
I reckon it would go as far as 270bhp with chargecooler. Which would be nice.
But running lower boost should be better for the engine for now.
I would want to get the most I could out of it.
Can always have variable map or boost control if it's too much day to day
True. He's given me pins and stuff and said he'll send pin outs for me to sort it out. Only 3 pins and he'll do the mapping for me.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180714/7c75a473052dcd4bcc72e4d1a6019a9e.jpg)
More goodies for a little modification to the air intake.
What's it for though?!?
Is it a bong for the intake?
Quote from: StuC on July 14, 2018, 14:26
Is it a bong for the intake?
Dammit!!! First guess!!
@dan944 (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=14286) do you have an updated parts list? Did you stick with the EMU Black in the end? Any regrets?
Quote from: BahnStormer on July 16, 2018, 15:03
@dan944 (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=14286) do you have an updated parts list? Did you stick with the EMU Black in the end? Any regrets?
So the parts list is minimum required to get things going. For engine management I went with the emu black. Absolutely zero regrets. It's a dream.
Changes made since are heat wrap, turbo blanket, heat reflective tape and custom heat shields.
Other bits are a fan in the engine lid and I'm in the process of plumbing in a recirc valve as the drive is a bit jerky between on lift off and think that could be a possibly cause.
Jerkiness
Could this be excessive engine movement?
I fitted polybush inserts to my engine mounts and thought it made a positive difference.
Quote from: 1979scotte on July 16, 2018, 15:21
Jerkiness
Could this be excessive engine movement?
I fitted polybush inserts to my engine mounts and thought it made a positive difference.
Ahh thanks :). Been quoted £95 for a set from brooks so will get them done if the recirc valve doesn't help. I though it was the fact the pressure wasn't being released quick enough etc.
that's probably a very fair point thinking about it :/.
Quote from: dan944 on July 16, 2018, 15:24
Quote from: 1979scotte on July 16, 2018, 15:21
Jerkiness
Could this be excessive engine movement?
I fitted polybush inserts to my engine mounts and thought it made a positive difference.
Ahh thanks :). Been quoted £95 for a set from brooks so will get them done if the recirc valve doesn't help. I though it was the fact the pressure wasn't being released quick enough etc.
that's probably a very fair point thinking about it :/.
Plenty of extra torque.
Quote from: 1979scotte on July 16, 2018, 15:25
Quote from: dan944 on July 16, 2018, 15:24
Quote from: 1979scotte on July 16, 2018, 15:21
Jerkiness
Could this be excessive engine movement?
I fitted polybush inserts to my engine mounts and thought it made a positive difference.
Ahh thanks :). Been quoted £95 for a set from brooks so will get them done if the recirc valve doesn't help. I though it was the fact the pressure wasn't being released quick enough etc.
that's probably a very fair point thinking about it :/.
Plenty of extra torque.
And 100k mounts haha.
It's on the list now.
My engine mounts failed very quickly once I added my turbo, I've now got the brooks ones and had no more problems, although there is more vibration/noise transmitted into the car.
The recirc valve could be responsible for the jerkiness, as on lift off the compressor wheel is probably stalling as the compressed air can't escape. Cheap easy mod and you get a nice woosh as the air is let back into the inlet :-)
Quote from: monsi on July 16, 2018, 22:27
My engine mounts failed very quickly once I added my turbo, I've now got the brooks ones and had no more problems, although there is more vibration/noise transmitted into the car.
The recirc valve could be responsible for the jerkiness, as on lift off the compressor wheel is probably stalling as the compressed air can't escape. Cheap easy mod and you get a nice woosh as the air is let back into the inlet :-)
Cheers man :)
My turbo is VERY luaus at the moment so this should quieten it down but more importantly reduce judder. If not, engine mounts it is.
Although I'll probably to them anyway.
Quote from: dan944 on July 16, 2018, 22:56
Quote from: monsi on July 16, 2018, 22:27
My engine mounts failed very quickly once I added my turbo, I've now got the brooks ones and had no more problems, although there is more vibration/noise transmitted into the car.
The recirc valve could be responsible for the jerkiness, as on lift off the compressor wheel is probably stalling as the compressed air can't escape. Cheap easy mod and you get a nice woosh as the air is let back into the inlet :-)
Cheers man :)
My turbo is VERY luaus at the moment so this should quieten it down but more importantly reduce judder. If not, engine mounts it is.
Although I'll probably to them anyway.
Your turbo is very luau?
https://youtu.be/r3JAM1nuNAk
Is nowhere safe!!! Haha
@dan944 (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=14286) @monsi (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13346) is only up the road from you, he is in the forest and like you designed and built his own turbo. If we add @andibell (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13196) and his 2zz and @Bernie (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13068) into our litte group we have some pretty quick cars. Time for a modified group drive me thinks!
Quote from: mikek on July 17, 2018, 06:50
@dan944 (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=14286) @monsi (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13346) is only up the road from you, he is in the forest and like you designed and built his own turbo. If we add @andibell (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13196) and his 2zz and @Bernie (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13068) into our litte group we have some pretty quick cars. Time for a modified group drive me thinks!
:o I completely forgot. Let me put my new discs on first :).
I don't think I'm home for the next couple of weeks because stupid work makes me go to work or they stop paying my or something.
But after that I'm definitely game. Could do with checking out a few turbo set ups and wanna see how your beast performs!!
Quote from: dan944 on July 17, 2018, 06:53
Quote from: mikek on July 17, 2018, 06:50
@dan944 (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=14286) @monsi (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13346) is only up the road from you, he is in the forest and like you designed and built his own turbo. If we add @andibell (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13196) and his 2zz and @Bernie (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13068) into our litte group we have some pretty quick cars. Time for a modified group drive me thinks!
:o I completely forgot. Let me put my new discs on first :).
I don't think I'm home for the next couple of weeks because stupid work makes me go to work or they stop paying my or something.
But after that I'm definitely game. Could do with checking out a few turbo set ups and wanna see how your beast performs!!
Let's pick a date and get an event up then.
My car is going to be nowhere near as quick as yours!
Hey Dan,
Great build! People like you inspire me to do the extra mile myself, your turbo looks quite nice. I have 2 things to mention:
1. I noticed(in one of the pics that you posted in another thread) that you have some kind of support or something that goes to the turbo. With that kind of manifold you dont need it. Can you please post pics of your intake? Where is it located? I think i have an idea for you to try if you are up for more experimenting.
2. Ceramic coating your manifold inside and out will keep some more heat away from the engine bay and eventually making temps more bearable. A shop thats working with these stuff will be required to make it on the inside and Im pretty sure with your skill and an old oven you can coat the manifold from the outside for cheap. Even just outside will make a difference.
Quote from: Nvy on July 17, 2018, 08:53
Hey Dan,
Great build! People like you inspire me to do the extra mile myself, your turbo looks quite nice. I have 2 things to mention:
1. I noticed(in one of the pics that you posted in another thread) that you have some kind of support or something that goes to the turbo. With that kind of manifold you dont need it. Can you please post pics of your intake? Where is it located? I think i have an idea for you to try if you are up for more experimenting.
2. Ceramic coating your manifold inside and out will keep some more heat away from the engine bay and eventually making temps more bearable. A shop thats working with these stuff will be required to make it on the inside and Im pretty sure with your skill and an old oven you can coat the manifold from the outside for cheap. Even just outside will make a difference.
That support was temporary. It now sits underneath directly to the standard manifold brackets. I'm not sure if it doesn't need it? It's a good manifold but that's a lot of weight and vibration on the manifold. It can only help I guess.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180717/7465b5cfa30b72c275df5fca8b7b6a36.jpg)
Here's the intake. RHS vent. I have thought of the ceramic coating but my temps are getting quite low now and I'm pretty pleased to be honest.
I'm always up for experimenting on the motor.
Quote from: dan944 on July 17, 2018, 09:33
Quote from: Nvy on July 17, 2018, 08:53
Hey Dan,
Great build! People like you inspire me to do the extra mile myself, your turbo looks quite nice. I have 2 things to mention:
1. I noticed(in one of the pics that you posted in another thread) that you have some kind of support or something that goes to the turbo. With that kind of manifold you dont need it. Can you please post pics of your intake? Where is it located? I think i have an idea for you to try if you are up for more experimenting.
2. Ceramic coating your manifold inside and out will keep some more heat away from the engine bay and eventually making temps more bearable. A shop thats working with these stuff will be required to make it on the inside and Im pretty sure with your skill and an old oven you can coat the manifold from the outside for cheap. Even just outside will make a difference.
That support was temporary. It now sits underneath directly to the standard manifold brackets. I'm not sure if it doesn't need it? It's a good manifold but that's a lot of weight and vibration on the manifold. It can only help I guess.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180717/7465b5cfa30b72c275df5fca8b7b6a36.jpg)
Here's the intake. RHS vent. I have thought of the ceramic coating but my temps are getting quite low now and I'm pretty pleased to be honest.
I'm always up for experimenting on the motor.
I was thinking to place the intake behind the wheel on the right. Slightly cut the arch so the cold air is channeled on the intake but that will require a bit of bumper cut too and adding a mesh there. The intake should be shielded again with some mesh and this will be the ideal setup me thinks. Your setup is also fine but i have read that its not much air coming through these side vents unless you do have the scoops on them.
Dan has scoops. Just not as big as Helen's :)
So that area should be fine. It's not like there will be a lack of air to suck in, and now that the temperatures are under control it's all fine
Quote from: Nvy on July 17, 2018, 09:55
Quote from: dan944 on July 17, 2018, 09:33
Quote from: Nvy on July 17, 2018, 08:53
Hey Dan,
Great build! People like you inspire me to do the extra mile myself, your turbo looks quite nice. I have 2 things to mention:
1. I noticed(in one of the pics that you posted in another thread) that you have some kind of support or something that goes to the turbo. With that kind of manifold you dont need it. Can you please post pics of your intake? Where is it located? I think i have an idea for you to try if you are up for more experimenting.
2. Ceramic coating your manifold inside and out will keep some more heat away from the engine bay and eventually making temps more bearable. A shop thats working with these stuff will be required to make it on the inside and Im pretty sure with your skill and an old oven you can coat the manifold from the outside for cheap. Even just outside will make a difference.
That support was temporary. It now sits underneath directly to the standard manifold brackets. I'm not sure if it doesn't need it? It's a good manifold but that's a lot of weight and vibration on the manifold. It can only help I guess.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180717/7465b5cfa30b72c275df5fca8b7b6a36.jpg)
Here's the intake. RHS vent. I have thought of the ceramic coating but my temps are getting quite low now and I'm pretty pleased to be honest.
I'm always up for experimenting on the motor.
I was thinking to place the intake behind the wheel on the right. Slightly cut the arch so the cold air is channeled on the intake but that will require a bit of bumper cut too and adding a mesh there. The intake should be shielded again with some mesh and this will be the ideal setup me thinks. Your setup is also fine but i have read that its not much air coming through these side vents unless you do have the scoops on them.
I added scoops solely for this reason :) although I do have scoop envy because @herecomesthewife has bigger ones than me :(
So in that side vent gives great acoustics. :)
Ha ha ha, scoop envy! Why don't you get the same ones?
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Because I've just bought and fitted these ones!! Lol. I will at some point I think.
Just don't leave your car unattended. ;)
Wouldn't you be at risk of the tyre throwing water up at the filter behind the wheel? Not to mention the extra dust/debris kicked up?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sounds great to me :-)
I've got the dreaded mot coming up next week but after that would be fine
Quote from: mikek on July 17, 2018, 08:28
Quote from: dan944 on July 17, 2018, 06:53
Quote from: mikek on July 17, 2018, 06:50
@dan944 (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=14286) @monsi (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13346) is only up the road from you, he is in the forest and like you designed and built his own turbo. If we add @andibell (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13196) and his 2zz and @Bernie (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13068) into our litte group we have some pretty quick cars. Time for a modified group drive me thinks!
:o I completely forgot. Let me put my new discs on first :).
I don't think I'm home for the next couple of weeks because stupid work makes me go to work or they stop paying my or something.
But after that I'm definitely game. Could do with checking out a few turbo set ups and wanna see how your beast performs!!
Let's pick a date and get an event up then.
My car is going to be nowhere near as quick as yours!
Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk
Quote from: dan944 on February 22, 2018, 13:42
So, just purchased my Garrett GT2554...
I will produce as concise a list as possible for those wanting to complete a turbo build.
watch this space!
What are the options once you've settled on GT25-spec turbo?
I assume a GT2554R is plenty for our engines? No need to go GT2560R or indeed the G25-550? (seems like more than double the price and overkill)
Were there any other turbo's you were considering?
Good question. Did Greg mention the GT2554R being too small?
It seems that, if anything, you've left power on the table, so it should be fine. Whereas the SP240 turbo was being worked far too hard so he basically said it was too small for the amount of boost and rpm
I forgot to get the comparison of mine and helens plots.
Basically as it got to about 5krpm the sp240 tailed of and dropped in power.
The gt2554R seems powerful enough for near 300hp. The spool is great and seems to be in a good efficiency. I've played with a car with the gt2860r turbo. It's a lot bigger and is more punchy I feel. But not as natural feeling as the 2554.
Good answer.
I think the long/short of it is that the 2554 is the best matched turbo for sub-300 with a stock-like feel
The 2560 would arguably be a bit of no-man's land between 2554 and 2860. The only difference being that the 2560 may be more sympathetic to your gearbox
Quote from: shnazzle on July 18, 2018, 14:57
Good answer.
I think the long/short of it is that the 2554 is the best matched turbo for sub-300 with a stock-like feel
The 2560 would arguably be a bit of no-man's land between 2554 and 2860. The only difference being that the 2560 may be more sympathetic to your gearbox
I completely agree 2554 drives very naturally. I don't think I'd want to ruin that.
Quote from: BahnStormer on July 18, 2018, 14:47
Quote from: dan944 on February 22, 2018, 13:42
So, just purchased my Garrett GT2554...
I will produce as concise a list as possible for those wanting to complete a turbo build.
watch this space!
What are the options once you've settled on GT25-spec turbo?
I assume a GT2554R is plenty for our engines? No need to go GT2560R or indeed the G25-550? (seems like more than double the price and overkill)
Were there any other turbo's you were considering?
The GT2554R is the smallest ball bearing turbo Garrett sell and therefore spools the quickest.
Unless you want to forge your engine then it delivers plenty of poke as Dan's car shows on only 8psi.
Other options are 2860RS GTX28** or the Borg Warner EFR 6258.
All much more costly and you won't be able to use them to their max without a forged engine and transmission upgrade.
Quote from: 1979scotte on July 18, 2018, 17:40
The GT2554R is the smallest ball bearing turbo Garrett sell and therefore spools the quickest.
Unless you want to forge your engine then it delivers plenty of poke as Dan's car shows on only 8psi.
Other options are 2860RS GTX28** or the Borg Warner EFR 6258.
All much more costly and you won't be able to use them to their max without a forged engine and transmission upgrade.
Thanks - I was pretty sure that was the case - the G25 sounds interesting - supposed to spool even faster, but it is 2.5x more expensive and I think the GT2554R sounds like the optimum point for a top quality turbo, minimal lag and as much power as the stock internals / transmission can handle...
Quote from: BahnStormer on July 18, 2018, 18:05
Quote from: 1979scotte on July 18, 2018, 17:40
The GT2554R is the smallest ball bearing turbo Garrett sell and therefore spools the quickest.
Unless you want to forge your engine then it delivers plenty of poke as Dan's car shows on only 8psi.
Other options are 2860RS GTX28** or the Borg Warner EFR 6258.
All much more costly and you won't be able to use them to their max without a forged engine and transmission upgrade.
Thanks - I was pretty sure that was the case - the G25 sounds interesting - supposed to spool even faster, but it is 2.5x more expensive and I think the GT2554R sounds like the optimum point for a top quality turbo, minimal lag and as much power as the stock internals / transmission can handle...
And if you get it in with Greg and his wizard fingers then you'll be seeing ridiculous figures from very little boost.
I think I worked it out as 13bhp per psi of boost. :)
Quote from: BahnStormer on July 18, 2018, 18:05
Quote from: 1979scotte on July 18, 2018, 17:40
The GT2554R is the smallest ball bearing turbo Garrett sell and therefore spools the quickest.
Unless you want to forge your engine then it delivers plenty of poke as Dan's car shows on only 8psi.
Other options are 2860RS GTX28** or the Borg Warner EFR 6258.
All much more costly and you won't be able to use them to their max without a forged engine and transmission upgrade.
Thanks - I was pretty sure that was the case - the G25 sounds interesting - supposed to spool even faster, but it is 2.5x more expensive and I think the GT2554R sounds like the optimum point for a top quality turbo, minimal lag and as much power as the stock internals / transmission can handle...
Id guess that g25 will make the air quite hot due to the small frame, for my build im going 6758 with.64 ar turbine housing. The 2863 and 2867 are quite nice options too but i love the idea of EFR and 6758 at 1400 dollars would be my choice.
How much power do you guys need? Dan already needs wipe clean seats from 8psi......
Quote from: mikek on July 18, 2018, 18:24
How much power do you guys need? Dan already needs wipe clean seats from 8psi......
I'm not after any more than you've got ;) I'm after nice progressive torque from low revs and ~220whp max!
Quote from: shnazzle on July 18, 2018, 14:49
Did Greg mention the GT2554R being too small?
Absolutely not... from everything I've seen, it is THE one to go for unless you're looking at a fully built engine, new gearbox, etc.... I just want to ask these questions now, while there's the right group of enthusiasts following your thread :)
I'm only aiming for ~220whp* (max) as I'm not doing built engine/new gearbox, so it sounds like a well setup GT2554R will get me into the right ballpark with the least lag... I think the usable boost from lower rpm (GT2554R) will be more real world-usable than than the dyno bragging rights of whatever you could theoretically get with a GT2560R, let alone GT2860R....
*I'm more interested in seeing the breadth and shape of the torque curve than the peak point on the power curve.... dyno peak power numbers can be fun to aim for, but a dyno should be a tool for tuning the whole power band, not the end game: the quant analyst in me is screaming for people to stop quoting peak power and found a way of expressing the engine's power in terms of "area under the curve X smoothness of delivery". It's very doable, but nobody would agree on a standard, so I won't even start. Essentially for the amount of time I spend at peak power rpm (e.g. 6300rpm*), it's fairly meaningless to me if it makes peak power of 400bhp at that point on a dyno if it makes it only at that point, I tend to drive my cars on roads more than dyno's :)
rant over :D
*and yes - I know 2zz's make a large chunk of their power from something like 6500-8500rpm, which makes them very fast and a great option IF you're going to drive them in that range the whole time (i.e. a track), but realistically, I'm not... Rotrex would be nice, but it's not a well trodden path and very expensive, hence the turbo options being explored.
I never thought of viewing it as area under the curve tbh. That would be a true test power!! We use it a lot in engineering and it's the only way to get true readings in a lot of cases!! Why is this not more used!
When I was looking all the information and advice I could find said that the Gt2554r was the perfect match for the standard engine. The GT2560R is almost the same turbo (slightly different compressor wheel) which would give more future proofing if you wanted to go forged. The spool difference shouldn't be too much, and this seems to have been the turbo of choice up to now.
I've only used the GT2554R so can't comment on others but the way the power is delivered is very smooth, no noticeable lag just like having a larger engine.
The EFR range look fantastic but I think even the smallest is going to be to big for a 1zz...
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Quote from: monsi on July 18, 2018, 19:31
When I was looking all the information and advice I could find said that the Gt2554r was the perfect match for the standard engine. The GT2560R is almost the same turbo (slightly different compressor wheel) which would give more future proofing if you wanted to go forged. The spool difference shouldn't be too much, and this seems to have been the turbo of choice up to now.
I've only used the GT2554R so can't comment on others but the way the power is delivered is very smooth, no noticeable lag just like having a larger engine.
The EFR range look fantastic but I think even the smallest is going to be to big for a 1zz...
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Without spilling the beans too much. I may or may not have one setup with a gt2860.
It's good but punchy. It's definitely aimed at the more power hungry, big it's a big fat whack of everything higher up the Rev range.
@BahnStormer (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=24604)
The beauty of Greg's tuning was he didn't look at the peak power untill he had mapped a perfect linear curve (if there is such a thing)
With my car he did this twice, once for each cam. He then overlapped them to set the lift point. Only on the last run did he even bother trying to get any more out of the top end.
He was most pleased with the distance he put between my first run curve and my final run curve between 3000rpm and 6000rpm. I think this is what you are talking about "under the curve"
Quote from: mikek on July 18, 2018, 21:08
@BahnStormer (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=24604)
The beauty of Greg's tuning was he didn't look at the peak power untill he had mapped a perfect linear curve (if there is such a thing)
With my car he did this twice, once for each cam. He then overlapped them to set the lift point. Only on the last run did he even bother trying to get any more out of the top end.
He was most pleased with the distance he put between my first run curve and my final run curve between 3000rpm and 6000rpm. I think this is what you are talking about "under the curve"
I noticed that as well. He was always fiddling it to get it linear.
Random question but did you have a hump in both your torque and hp around 4.7krpm @mikek ?
Nope. It's such a smooth curve. He spent ages on it. You don't feel it go into lift at all now. The car is so much better through the mid range and it just feels like it will go on for ever at the top end. I can't believe the difference that little black box of electronics has made.
Quote from: mikek on July 18, 2018, 21:08
@BahnStormer (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=24604)
The beauty of Greg's tuning was he didn't look at the peak power untill he had mapped a perfect linear curve (if there is such a thing)
With my car he did this twice, once for each cam. He then overlapped them to set the lift point. Only on the last run did he even bother trying to get any more out of the top end.
He was most pleased with the distance he put between my first run curve and my final run curve between 3000rpm and 6000rpm. I think this is what you are talking about "under the curve"
I noticed that as well. He was always fiddling it to get it linear.
Random question but did you have a hump in both your torque and hp around 4.7krpm @mikek ?
Quote from: mikek on July 18, 2018, 21:21
Nope. It's such a smooth curve. He spent ages on it. You don't feel it go into lift at all now. The car is so much better through the mid range and it just feels like it will go on for ever at the top end. I can't believe the difference that little black box of electronics has made.
Odd, must be a 1zz characteristic then. Lol. It can be seen on my dyno plot but helens also had it.
Have you put up a picture of your dyno?
2zz doesnt have the characteristic Dan. Instead 2zz has the torque dip at about 5k rpm. But that is eradicated with Stg2 cams and standalone
Quote from: dan944 on July 18, 2018, 21:25
Quote from: mikek on July 18, 2018, 21:21
Nope. It's such a smooth curve. He spent ages on it. You don't feel it go into lift at all now. The car is so much better through the mid range and it just feels like it will go on for ever at the top end. I can't believe the difference that little black box of electronics has made.
Odd, must be a 1zz characteristic then. Lol. It can be seen on my dyno plot but helens also had it.
Have you put up a picture of your dyno?
Quote from: shnazzle on July 18, 2018, 21:31
2zz doesnt have the characteristic Dan. Instead 2zz has the torque dip at about 5k rpm. But that is eradicated with Stg2 cams and standalone
Quote from: dan944 on July 18, 2018, 21:25
Quote from: mikek on July 18, 2018, 21:21
Nope. It's such a smooth curve. He spent ages on it. You don't feel it go into lift at all now. The car is so much better through the mid range and it just feels like it will go on for ever at the top end. I can't believe the difference that little black box of electronics has made.
Odd, must be a 1zz characteristic then. Lol. It can be seen on my dyno plot but helens also had it.
Have you put up a picture of your dyno?
Well I know that now haha :D
I haven't got that dip on mine... Is your standalone ECU controlling the vvt?
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I haven't got any pictures/graphs. Day got to be very long and I forgot to ask before I left. They are stored on the system though. Will pick them up next time!!
Quote from: monsi on July 18, 2018, 21:40
I haven't got that dip on mine... Is your standalone ECU controlling the vvt?
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Hump not dip. Lol.
Yes. I believe he's doing voodoo stuff with it.
Quote from: mikek on July 18, 2018, 21:40
I haven't got any pictures/graphs. Day got to be very long and I forgot to ask before I left. They are stored on the system though. Will pick them up next time!!
I mean...did it even happen?
Sorry, no hump either!
If it's not the vvt then I guess it must be something to do with the pipework that's different on mine.... Maybe
Quote from: dan944 on July 18, 2018, 21:41
Quote from: monsi on July 18, 2018, 21:40
I haven't got that dip on mine... Is your standalone ECU controlling the vvt?
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Hump not dip. Lol.
Yes. I believe he's doing voodoo stuff with it.
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Quote from: monsi on July 18, 2018, 21:49
Sorry, no hump either!
If it's not the vvt then I guess it must be something to do with the pipework that's different on mine.... MaybeQuote from: dan944 on July 18, 2018, 21:41
Quote from: monsi on July 18, 2018, 21:40
I haven't got that dip on mine... Is your standalone ECU controlling the vvt?
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Hump not dip. Lol.
Yes. I believe he's doing voodoo stuff with it.
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Hmm. Odd. It's no issue at all. Greg just thought it seemed engine related and wanted to check his theory.
And then got curious with the 2zz.
Yours must be special monsi. Just did a random search and every single 1zz dyno chart I can find (within reasonable builds, not silly idiot power) all have the hump. Some more pronounced than others.
Quote from: dan944 on July 18, 2018, 21:48
Quote from: mikek on July 18, 2018, 21:40
I haven't got any pictures/graphs. Day got to be very long and I forgot to ask before I left. They are stored on the system though. Will pick them up next time!!
I mean...did it even happen?
My bank account is empty so I presume I didn't dream it
That's why I think it might be down to the layout/pipework as so far I haven't seen anyone with the same setup as me
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Quote from: mikek on July 18, 2018, 21:08
@BahnStormer (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=24604)
The beauty of Greg's tuning was he didn't look at the peak power untill he had mapped a perfect linear curve (if there is such a thing)
I know what you mean - smooth curve :)
Quote from: mikek on July 18, 2018, 21:08
@BahnStormer (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=24604)
He was most pleased with the distance he put between my first run curve and my final run curve between 3000rpm and 6000rpm. I think this is what you are talking about "under the curve"
Similar, but not quite: that comment would apply to the mid-range increase, but that description is used more in relation to completely different shaped torque curves, e.g. comparing a 2ZZ that makes 200whp and a turbo that makes 200whp: if you were to draw the two power curves and see how many square centres you needed to fill in the area, the area under the turbo's power curve would be much higher since. Another way of describing it is when they quote peak torque on engines (especially TDI's), they often quote the range that it makes that torque.
Skip to 15min 45sec on this video and you'll see the sort of power curve you don't want, unless you "just want a number for your forum signature" (their words, not mine) :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6rK0EEuSpM