hi ,what could cause these readings.
fast idle co 2.99%
hc 876 ppm
0.914
2nd fast idle co 1.76
hc250 ppm
0.951
It's what Carolyn said.
If you replace the cat you might get through the MOT for another few years.
mot fail high emissions
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=15578&share_tid=64784&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emr2roc%2Eorg%2Fforum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D64784&share_type=t
what happens to the cat does it just get clogged up ?
Aside to Carolynne's earlier sound advice, do you still have the pre cats in the exhaust manifold?
Regarding your question though, cats are mainly ceramic inside, the oil clogs the ceramic pores and stops them "converting".
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to be honest i dont know much about the car engine ect i just like to drive it .
Quote from: davethediscoman on March 22, 2018, 21:50
to be honest i dont know much about the car engine ect i just like to drive it .
That's a fair comment [emoji38]
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Quote from: davethediscoman on March 22, 2018, 21:50
to be honest i dont know much about the car engine ect i just like to drive it .
In a similar position my good man, you're not alone :)
Quote from: delhusband on March 22, 2018, 23:08
Quote from: davethediscoman on March 22, 2018, 21:50
to be honest i dont know much about the car engine ect i just like to drive it .
In a similar position my good man, you're not alone :)
Err? You Sir, know more than enough!
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Dave
Where you based?
Dave, check out 'Cats2U'. £120 -£130 depending on offer... for replacement cat. Quite a few members have used them with good results.
Hi,and thank you all for. You sound advice.i am based nr Canterbury. Am I right that the cat that's the problem is the middle section of exhaust?. I have a friend that works in trade that can get a good quality one for£ 98 plus vat.
Quote from: davethediscoman on March 23, 2018, 17:13
Hi,and thank you all for. You sound advice.i am based nr Canterbury. Am I right that the cat that's the problem is the middle section of exhaust?. I have a friend that works in trade that can get a good quality one for£ 98 plus vat.
Cats2u current price is £130 plus £9 delivery but that includes a fitting kit they sell separately for £18 so it depends if you're getting the same fitting kit from your friend?
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Yes the cat is the section before the large silencer.
£98 is a good price.
http://www.cats2u.co.uk/32033/Catalytic-Converter/TOYOTA/MR2/1.8 is this the part i need
Yes thats the one.
Just to throw in this, it's now throwing a fault code for O2 sensor. On pre cat. Would this now be telling me that that could now be problem, or is it part of what we have already talked about?
Quote from: davethediscoman on March 24, 2018, 11:53
Just to throw in this, it's now throwing a fault code for O2 sensor. On pre cat. Would this now be telling me that that could now be problem, or is it part of what we have already talked about?
If you haven't already Dave, have a read through the information in the workshop.
Forums-workshop-maintenance precats etc. It'll give you an idea of the common problems, causes and fixes.
After that you'll have a better idea of the questions you still need answers to.
I'd get yourself an OBD2 code reader too, very inexpensive and worth the weight in gold.
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on March 24, 2018, 12:48
Quote from: davethediscoman on March 24, 2018, 11:53
Just to throw in this, it's now throwing a fault code for O2 sensor. On pre cat. Would this now be telling me that that could now be problem, or is it part of what we have already talked about?
If you haven't already Dave, have a read through the information in the workshop.
Forums-workshop-maintenance precats etc. It'll give you an idea of the common problems, causes and fixes.
After that you'll have a better idea of the questions you still need answers to.
I'd get yourself an OBD2 code reader too, very inexpensive and worth the weight in gold.
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I suspect Dave has a code reader, as I can't think how else he'd know it's a sensor fault.
Dave: post the fault number so we can assist.
Quote from: Carolyn on March 24, 2018, 13:19
Quote from: Call the midlife! on March 24, 2018, 12:48
Quote from: davethediscoman on March 24, 2018, 11:53
Just to throw in this, it's now throwing a fault code for O2 sensor. On pre cat. Would this now be telling me that that could now be problem, or is it part of what we have already talked about?
If you haven't already Dave, have a read through the information in the workshop.
Forums-workshop-maintenance precats etc. It'll give you an idea of the common problems, causes and fixes.
After that you'll have a better idea of the questions you still need answers to.
I'd get yourself an OBD2 code reader too, very inexpensive and worth the weight in gold.
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I suspect Dave has a code reader, as I can't think how else he'd know it's a sensor fault.
Dave: post the fault number so we can assist.
True, I've been spending money this morning, it always tires me out [emoji23]
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Yes I have a code reader, I cleared the codes and since they have not come up again. So I don't know what or why it did do that this morning.
Quote from: davethediscoman on March 24, 2018, 18:17
Yes I have a code reader, I cleared the codes and since they have not come up again. So I don't know what or why it did do that this morning.
Can sometimes take a couple of drives for the ECU to decide it's still not happy so don't be surprised if it comes back.
Can you remember what the code was?
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O2 bank 1 sensor
It takes me to the net to find it. Pre cat sensor it was saying.
Quote from: davethediscoman on March 24, 2018, 19:23
It takes me to the net to find it. Pre cat sensor it was saying.
Depends on the actual code really, wether the actual sensor is fubar or the heater that comes on until the exhaust gases warm it up enough to work properly.
I'm far from expert but I wouldn't think one failed O2 sensor would give you those emissions, especially if it's nice and hot.
Lumps of degrading pre cat might give duff O2 readings but that's a different story.
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Duff o2 can most certainly make you fail MOT. Easily.
High HC is running rich (or stupid lean), if o2 sensor is reading lean incorrectly, it will be telling the ecu to dump fuel in,making it run rich as hell and give you insane hc levels like 800+
Quote from: shnazzle on March 24, 2018, 20:25
Duff o2 can most certainly make you fail MOT. Easily.
High HC is running rich (or stupid lean), if o2 sensor is reading lean incorrectly, it will be telling the ecu to dump fuel in,making it run rich as hell and give you insane hc levels like 800+
Every day's a school day, I did say I wasn't an expert [emoji23][emoji23]
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hc levels 876ppm
Load up ye olde Torque next time and watch the fuel trims. I'm guessing it'll be in decently high positive figures
Hi does anyone know what fuse bank one sensor one is in fuse box?
Quote from: davethediscoman on March 27, 2018, 16:06
Hi does anyone know what fuse bank one sensor one is in fuse box?
Looking in the handbook it doesn't quote O2 sensors so you might have to find out what they DO call them as they have fancy names for stuff like high idle control etc.
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Yes I have been looking as you say probably the only way is looking at every fuse.
Quote from: davethediscoman on March 27, 2018, 17:58
Yes I have been looking as you say probably the only way is looking at every fuse.
Looking at some wiring diagrams I don't really understand they lead me to fuse 44. EF12 (or I2) 7.5A
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on March 27, 2018, 18:20
Quote from: davethediscoman on March 27, 2018, 17:58
Yes I have been looking as you say probably the only way is looking at every fuse.
Looking at some wiring diagrams I don't really understand they lead me to fuse 44. EF12 (or I2) 7.5A
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They don't have their own fuses. It's fused into the fuel injection wiring as a whole. EFI1 and EFI2
My 2007 on 60k miles just failed emissions across the board - the guy at the test station said given how badly it failed across the board - probably O2 sensor ("but possibly cat"):
Fast Idle:
CO 7.165% (max = 0.2%)
HC 812ppm (max = 200ppm)
Lamda 0.780 (min = 0.97)
Fast Idle #2:
CO 7.376%
HC 788
Lamda 0.776
Natural Idle 5.108% (max 0.3%)
Wasn't even close on anything... and I've never seen this as an MOT fail / advisory in the history.
Apparently it has an aftermarket cat - so I'm hoping that is new and not a problem... but there is a thought that the previous owner may have done a stealth decat?!?! (I've heard of straight pipes, but would people make it look like it had a cat, but just clear it out?)
It doesn't burn or use any oil, so I'm hoping that means this is purely sensor related... I'll have a look at ODB2 stats this weekend.
If it's a 200 or even worse a 100 cell sports cat they need to be hot hot hot to pass MOT.
Proper thrashing required.
There's absolutely no benefit in gutting a cat on a petrol as the emissions readings tell the tale (as you well know). So it's either a o2, your cat is knacked, or it's a 100 for 200 cell. This only works on diesels while they do visual inspections for presence of the dpf
If 100...put a bottle of Catclean through, make sure it has fresh oil, plugs and air filter. Then rag the living bejesus out of it for a good while until even the stock is exhaust burbles. Then do donuts on the forecourt while waiting for the MOT, and then you might pass :)
Then save up for a 200 or 400 cell replacement.
If 200, just make sure it's good and hot. Few good full-throttle blasts.
thanks - might try the catlclean route - not sure what the cat spec is, only that MikeK and Andibell saw it and comments that it looked a lot smaller than stock...
Noticed Scotte is liking the donuts ;)
Quote from: Joesson on March 28, 2018, 09:16
Noticed Scotte is liking the donuts ;)
Bit harsh, I'm sure all the new horses (and torques) will be able to cope with however many he eats...
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Quote from: BahnStormer on March 28, 2018, 08:53
thanks - might try the catlclean route - not sure what the cat spec is, only that MikeK and Andibell saw it and comments that it looked a lot smaller than stock...
Wasn't stock, looked like a cats 2 u replacement to me. Also looked like it had been on there a while.
Hi HC won't be cured by cat....
sounds like a combination of things - possibly O2 sensors and cat....
Ok - I got a bottle of Cataclean, to see if that makes any difference.
1) How many miles does that require to start having an effect?
2) From Carolyn's comment, it sounds like it'll be O2 sensors too? Any suggestions on how best to diagnose and/or fix O2 sensor issues?
I'm assuming this requires OBD2 port scan? I've got a cable, but I've just had a look and it is the Rosstech one from my Audi and I think that they do VAG cars only. IIRC the license for the software is embedded in the cable, but do I just re-install the same RossTech software that I used on my Audi and start hunting for an ODB2 port?!? I think I've got little handheld box for error code reading too, but that may be a bit tricky to find!!
Quote from: BahnStormer on March 28, 2018, 20:03
Ok - I got a bottle of Cataclean, to see if that makes any difference.
1) How many miles does that require to start having an effect?
2) From Carolyn's comment, it sounds like it'll be O2 sensors too? Any suggestions on how best to diagnose and/or fix O2 sensor issues?
I'm assuming this requires OBD2 port scan? I've got a cable, but I've just had a look and it is the Rosstech one from my Audi and I think that they do VAG cars only. IIRC the license for the software is embedded in the cable, but do I just re-install the same RossTech software that I used on my Audi and start hunting for an ODB2 port?!? I think I've got little handheld box for error code reading too, but that may be a bit tricky to find!!
You've got vcds? :) Nice!
Unfortunately it won't help you on the Toyota. Only VAG.
Someone near you might have an obd2 scanner. Have a look at the members map to see who is near you and ask.
Buy a Bluetooth odb2 dongle for less than a fiver download torque for Android Bob is your mother's brother.
Quote from: shnazzle on March 28, 2018, 20:05
You've got vcds? :) Nice!
yeah - happy to lend a hand with VAG diags - VAG electronics are one area I'm actually reasonably comfortable with - lots of custom coding on my old (B6) A4 (reverse mirror, cruise control, satnav) as well as diagnosing and swapping all the microswitches (brake+clutch) when my retrofit cruisecontrol stopped working after 2yrs... paid for the RossTech with that one alone!!
Quote from: shnazzle on March 28, 2018, 20:05
Unfortunately [VCDS] won't help you on the Toyota. Only VAG.
Someone near you might have an obd2 scanner. Have a look at the members map to see who is near you and ask.
No stress there, I used to be really into this on my old VAG cars: but I've also got an
old Star Trek style "communicator" (port scanner)... it'll only read / reset codes, but that'll be enough for this.... then I got a USB-OBD2 dongle to try to write some codes for my old Audi A4 (B6) and realised that it would be 100x easier with VCDS, so I bought that.... the VCDS is in the Audi, but the old kit is in my shed and that is a mess - I slid the hardtop in there after I got the new roof, so I need to move the hardtop out the way, but I think I can get to the box and dig out the old USB-OBD2 cable and reader (IF that still works from about 8 yrs ago!!)... hopefully I'll be okay.
Quote from: 1979scotte on March 28, 2018, 20:55
Buy a Bluetooth odb2 dongle for less than a fiver download torque for Android Bob is your mother's brother.
I think I'm fine on that: Should still have the ODB2-USB cable.... and I've got USB-C and USB-micro OTG cables for my tablet and phone, so that'll be my backup plan if the code reader is bvggr3d (likely after about 8yrs!).... but thanks for the Torque app advice!
edit: and thanks/apologies to DaveTheDiscoMan for the thread/hijack... it seemed too close to what I needed to ask to start a new thread!
Update: I've had a dig around the shed thismorning - I can't find the USB-OBD2 cable anywhere and I've just realised that my generic scanner probably isn't generic: MemoScan VAG5053 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/MemoScan-VAG5053-Scanner-Service-Reset/dp/B00GBMPKY2)... I've had a look and it seems to be focussed on VAG CANBUS cars only (changes forum status to "Member has OBD2 scanner = NO")
Bluetooth OBD2 on order! (will change OBD2 status once I have this confrmed as working!). Due to arrive tomorrow (good old Amazon!).
How easy is the O2 sensor to fix once I know which one it is? Is it worth doing all three now? And do people have any tips in addition to this guide (10yrs old) https://midshiprunabout.org/mk3/replacing-o2-sensors/
And recommendations on where to buy? https://www.mr2-ben.co.uk/?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=02+sensor ?
If it is also a cat problem, what are the best options for replacement? 200 / 400 cell Sports cat? Or am I best staying away from sports cats as they need more heat to operate properly? I don't tend to rag it THAT heavilly (only 20mins at a time), all I want something that is going to allow as much flow as possible, but also gives me the best chance of passing emissions every year.... thanks for the top tip Scottie, but my local MOT stations all have very small parking areas, so no room to do donuts while I wait to go in....
My opinion.
Don't bother with a sports cat 400 cel stock type will do. This is even more true if there is no car park room for donuts.
I usually book mine for a first thing Saturday and go for anreally good drive early doors. Or get my mechanic to do it.
02 sensor try Amazon sparkplugs.co.uk or Opie oils. Stick to DENSO.
Don't do all 3 some people have to change quite a few I've never done one in 4 years. Think you need a special socket to change them. Perhaps it's the same as a sparkplug.
O2 sensors (Denso original only) are fairly priced on sparkplugs.co.uk (I know, seems weird but roll with it), or ebay DOX-0204 or DOX-0206 depending on which one had gone.
Use the OBD2 adapter to get the error code and it will tell you which sensor it is, or multiple sensors.
Stick with a stock cat. No need for a sports cat for your use. 120 gets you one on ebay. Not stock quality but it'll get the job done.
Changing the o2 sensor can be very easy indeed if they're not stuck, and it's not the post-cat one.
Figure out which one it is and go from there
Hi, no problem with the hijack, it's all along the same lines so all interesting
This may help everyone also. https://youtu.be/E3KSTjVIRRU
Quote from: davethediscoman on March 29, 2018, 15:33
Hi, no problem with the hijack, it's all along the same lines so all interesting
;D Ta for your undertanding...
I'm guessing your multimeter pics are just a manual way of checking the O2 sensors?
Quote from: 1979scotte on March 29, 2018, 13:19
Think you need a special socket to change them. Perhaps it's the same as a sparkplug.
This is what is needed (from the previously linked midshiprunabout link above)...
(https://i0.wp.com/midshiprun.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/938c56036c903f1e37d1dfea61455baa.jpg)
Bear with me while I take notes, as I'm assuming this is one (or more!) of the O2 sensors :)
DOX-0204 @ £58.14 (https://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/denso-oxygen-sensor-dox-0204)
DOX-0206 @ £58.14 (https://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/denso-oxygen-sensor-dox-0206)
Are there any alternatives to go for? e.g. NGK / BluePrint? I only ask as prices are similar for those other brands on Amazon (and I'll get my favoured Prime delivery, so possibly cheaper!)...
And on the SparkPlugs.co.uk site, as soon as you get one of those links you are suggested that you might want to buy an "O2 sensor socket (https://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/o2-socket)" too... £11.02... but similar 22mm ockets can be found on Amazon for £7.50 and includes Prime delivery (HERE (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-Expert-55540-Oxygen-Sensor/dp/B000MQ7XRA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1522331170&sr=8-3&keywords=lambda+sensor+socket)) or a lot less if you're willing to wait... if that link dies, just search on Amazon for "lambda sensor socket" or "oxygen sensor socket".
From Carolyn's post that effectively said: "High HC = something more than the cat", I'm going with the OBD2 readings and expecting it will need new O2 sensor9s?) first, then a (free) re-test in the hopes that has sorted it.
Will it need long to adjust to the new sensors or can I pretty much drive it straight to the test centre once they're done?
IF it still needs a new cat and I'm not going for a sports cat (sounds like I'm not), then is the OEM one the best? Priority would be:
1) flow
2) low emissions
3) longevity
4) price
Price is on the list too, but a long way below the other three: I don't mind paying double if it will last twice as long. The car doesn't burn oil and should run pretty lean (once the O2 sensors are sorted), so I'm not expecting the cat to get prematurely "soiled".
Is there an OEM equivalent (or better)? I want quality, not Mr T's stamp of approval.
Most people just get the proper DENSO sensor.
NGK blue print ect don't always perform so well.
I got my socket on eBay with delivery was £8. Took two days by rm but could of got it next day from the, tool academy. Com
Quote from: davethediscoman on March 29, 2018, 16:14
I got my socket on eBay with delivery was £8. Took two days by rm but could of got it next day from the, tool academy. Com
What is the clearance like?
Will a longer socket do the job? Draper @ £7.50 (Prime) (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-Expert-55540-Oxygen-Sensor/dp/B000MQ7XRA/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1522336712&sr=1-1&keywords=Oxygen+Sensor+Socket)
Or do you need the offset one? BGS @ £10.63 (non-Prime) (https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B004U7XJDE/ref=ox_ya_os_product)
Quote from: 1979scotte on March 29, 2018, 16:13
Most people just get the proper DENSO sensor.
NGK blue print ect don't always perform so well.
Thanks - that's what I needed to know!
Ready to pull the trigger on these as soon as I can work out which sensors are playing up!
DOX-0204 @ £58.14 (https://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/denso-oxygen-sensor-dox-0204)
DOX-0206 @ £58.14 (https://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/denso-oxygen-sensor-dox-0206)
edit: I got this advice too late, but OpieOils are only £53.80 each AND they do free delivery if you're more than just the one (£60+).
e.g. https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-86057-denso-direct-fit-lambda-sensor-dox-0204-oxygen-o2-genuine-oe-part.aspxSpeaking of "needing to know"..... how do I know which sensor is which (i.e. after I've seen an error code, how do I know:
1) which physical sensor actually needs to be removed!!
2) if I need a DOX-0204/0206 (prefereably without having to remove it first).
edit: #RockingThisThreadHijack
Bank 1 sensor 1 is towards the pulley end of the engine in the manifold.
Bank 2 sensor 1 is the other sensor in the manifold.
Bank 1 sensor 2 is just after the main cat and has a longer wire.
The draper socket is the one I have to be honest it didn't give me a problem at all getting sensor out. I was expecting it to be stuck fast. But was easier than some spark plugs I've done.
Quote from: BahnStormer on March 29, 2018, 15:59
Quote from: davethediscoman on March 29, 2018, 15:33
Hi, no problem with the hijack, it's all along the same lines so all interesting
;D Ta for your undertanding...
I'm guessing your multimeter pics are just a manual way of checking the O2 sensors?
Quote from: 1979scotte on March 29, 2018, 13:19
Think you need a special socket to change them. Perhaps it's the same as a sparkplug.
This is what is needed (from the previously linked midshiprunabout link above)...
(https://i0.wp.com/midshiprun.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/938c56036c903f1e37d1dfea61455baa.jpg)
Bear with me while I take notes, as I'm assuming this is one (or more!) of the O2 sensors :)
DOX-0204 @ £58.14 (https://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/denso-oxygen-sensor-dox-0204)
DOX-0206 @ £58.14 (https://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/denso-oxygen-sensor-dox-0206)
Are there any alternatives to go for? e.g. NGK / BluePrint? I only ask as prices are similar for those other brands on Amazon (and I'll get my favoured Prime delivery, so possibly cheaper!)...
And on the SparkPlugs.co.uk site, as soon as you get one of those links you are suggested that you might want to buy an "O2 sensor socket (https://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/o2-socket)" too... £11.02... but similar 22mm ockets can be found on Amazon for £7.50 and includes Prime delivery (HERE (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-Expert-55540-Oxygen-Sensor/dp/B000MQ7XRA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1522331170&sr=8-3&keywords=lambda+sensor+socket)) or a lot less if you're willing to wait... if that link dies, just search on Amazon for "lambda sensor socket" or "oxygen sensor socket".
The £7.50 Amazon one will be fine, just make sure it's seated properly on the sensor, sometimes they can chew themselves on if the sensor is f tight and they're a nightmare to get off!
Get it warm and plusgassed up prior to removal and you'll be fine.
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With ref to carolyns post
The dox 0204 fits the top two.
The dox 0206 is after the cat with the longer lead.
As alluded to earlier. ECU operates on a two trip logic.
Detects fault. Stores does not report.
If detected again compares with stored and if same. Reports and you get a dash light.
So perverse as it is. You really could do with a fault being detected so you have a code to read.
Concerning. I've never had any dash errors, so I'm hoping it's just marginal, but still on OBD2.
Engine check light does come on when turn the ignition on? Then goes off a few seconds later?
Quote from: Ardent on March 29, 2018, 21:52
Engine check light does come on when turn the ignition on? Then goes off a few seconds later?
(facepalm)
I've just had a QUICK look (
I know I'm not going anywhere, but I've had a few drinks, so not hanging about the car waiting for Mr Plod to come and check up on my me!!). Sounds like a silly question, but in the dark, it looks like it should be between ABS and battery? If so, I can see the shape, but no, never comes on at all!! You think the previous owner pulled the bulb and got the emissions results "fudged" last time around to mask something bad? If it was a bad O2 sensor, surely easier just to fix the sensor than to pull the dash apart and pull the bulb?!? Pretty p'd off as I actually got it serviced with Mr T after I had it a month, before starting to spend any money on it to spot the obvious stuff like that!
I'm not overly concerned - it's not burning oil and the oil looks clean, so I'm guessing (hoping) the engine is okay, but worst case, I'll be getting extra notes off Scottie, et al on a V6 swap (gone off the idea of rotrex'ing a 1zz when there's 1mz's, 3mz's and 2GR's out there, looking for a home)... I don't think the '2 needs that much extra power and I don't like the idea of a turbo/2zz (elastic/peaky delivery is not my thing)... but a V6 would just sound amazing.... if it was an easy fit and IF I could afford it, I'd love the 3.0TFSI (SC) engine from my snotwagon Audi in the back of the '2!! That said, the extra power was really pencilled in for Summer'19... 2018 was supposed to be about learning to drive the car more and the supporting mods (suspension and braces), all that AND a V6 is about £6k that I don't have right now...
Tbf it's a doddle to block the EML light, 5 mins work. And the cheaper option if your just selling the car......
Your not the 1st and won't be the last to be caught out by this, myself included. The sh1tbag who did mine put a screwdriver through the cluster and took the EML and fuel led's right off the circuit board, usually they use blutack or card to just block it off, so my seller was a special kind of @rsehole. Hope it's an easy repair for the cluster and most likely just the 02 sensor to replace.
I had MOT emissions problems where there was an exhaust leak at the joint where the cat section joins the manifold (from the three amigos) and I'd driven around with it blowing. I can't remember if it was high HC or CO but I definitely had high lamda. I fitted a cats2U stock cat and it sailed through.
Jack the black just failed emissions on idle :(
Stuck IACV.
Just add it to the list ways to fail emissions
Okay mine had three error codes, looks like it is pointing at the 2x manifold O2 sensors...
edit: it wasn't these errors point to 1x manidfold + 1x post-cat!!"P0135-Powertrain: O2 Sensor Heater Circuit (Bank 1 Sensor 1)"
"P0142-Powertrain: O2 Sensor Heater Circuit (Bank 1 Sensor 2)"
"P0171-Powertrain: System too Lean (Bank 1)"
I cleared the error and started the engine and I got one of them back immediately... guessing only a matter of time before the other one comes through too?
"P0135-Powertrain: O2 Sensor Heater Circuit (Bank 1 Sensor 1)"
edit2: this one comes back after the "conditions" have been met.... (read on for details)No sign of the second error (yet), but I'm guessing it's only a matter of time?
I'm guessing that P0171 is just a summary/result of the first two reading badly.... and it incorrectly reading too lean would explain the net result of the ECU dumping far too much fuel in and it clocking 800+ on HC's?
Quote from: Carolyn on March 29, 2018, 16:36
Bank 1 sensor 1 is towards the pulley end of the engine in the manifold. [dox-0204]
Bank 2 sensor 1 is the other sensor in the manifold.[dox-0204]
Bank 1 sensor 2 is just after the main cat and has a longer wire.[dox-0206]
I'll go and buy two Denso DOX-0204's...
Is the massively high CO reading a result of this too or has it just coated the cat in fuel because it's running so rich, in which case the Cataclean may/may not help it clean that depending on how clogged up the cat is? Or will the cat never recover?
BTW - thanks for all the help on this guys: no ego's, no crazy ranting/patronising comments (even when some might have been earned!)... just simple straight forward advice, combined with support from other members, especially when this probably seems really simple for most of you!! As a result - I've felt a lot more inclined to have a go at this myself - it's been nice getting stuck into this and it has probably saved me a few hundred quid already!!
Quote from: 1979scotte on March 29, 2018, 16:13
Most people just get the proper DENSO sensor.
NGK blue print ect don't always perform so well.
I can get Walker/Thomson/HAAS sensors from a local garage (EuroCarParts)... Thomson is the most expensive, and HAS is only a fraction more than Denso.
I know the recommendation is Denso, but how likely are the Thomson/HAAS ones to be similar quality? Or am I just being impatient and I should order it online and wait for the Denso parts?
edit: also looks like GSF has something similar, but apparently Bosch (@£155!!!)... https://www.gsfcarparts.com/930to0090
As you can see from your own research, things can be massively overpriced. So price is no indication of quality.
My feeling is the Densos are so well proven in the club, that anything else is a gamble....
Thanks - GSF gave me a 60% discount code (EGG60), which takes them down to £62 each (from £155!!) - always worth asking!!
Unfortunately I had a mix-up with calling in to check the stock (their phones were busy and I got diverted to a store 100miles away, which they didn't tell me and didn't check where my pickup was supposed to be from, so they confirmed stock ready for collection at the wrong store :( ). I'll still get the parts at that price, but they won't be ready for collection until Tuesday morning.
They said they only stock Bosch/Denso and that these were likely to be the Bosch ones: Bosch is a brand I usually trust to make high performance, robust components and Denso seem to be the favoured brand, so I was willing to go with either.
edit: cancelling the Bosch/Denso from GSF and I'll just order the Denso ones from sparkplugs.co.uk for delivery next week.
Bahnstormer
BTW - thanks for all the help on this guys: no ego's, no crazy ranting/patronising comments (even when some might have been earned!)... just simple straight forward advice, combined with support from other members, especially when this probably seems really simple for most of you!! As a result - I've felt a lot more inclined to have a go at this myself - it's been nice getting stuck into this and it has probably saved me a few hundred quid already!!
That's the way we roll.
Great club spirit eh!
Quote from: shnazzle on March 30, 2018, 10:48
Jack the black just failed emissions on idle :(
Stuck IACV.
Just add it to the list ways to fail emissions
Unlucky!!! By coincidence I was reading up on iacv yesterday as I was wondering if that could affect the emissions, you've just given me the answer. What were your readings and how have you diagnosed the faulty iacv ? If mine struggles on the emissions this year this is next on my checklist
Sorry I have to be quick so haven't time to check your thread/prices etc but have you tried Opie oils for the sensors?
Around £53 last time I looked plus try the code DOZEN20 you might get their Easter discount AND mention you're in the club you might get club discount on top of that. I did on some MT90 the other week.
No harm in trying!
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Quote from: wotugonado on March 30, 2018, 15:53
Quote from: shnazzle on March 30, 2018, 10:48
Jack the black just failed emissions on idle :(
Stuck IACV.
Just add it to the list ways to fail emissions
Unlucky!!! By coincidence I was reading up on iacv yesterday as I was wondering if that could affect the emissions, you've just given me the answer. What were your readings and how have you diagnosed the faulty iacv ? If mine struggles on the emissions this year this is next on my checklist
It's not so much faulty and poorly adjusted. It was idling at about 1400rpm when warm. So that's obviously far too high. So when they do the idle and emissions test they were obviously getting CO readings waaaayyy above the norm.
The other emissions tests all passed.
The IACV has an actuator on the outside. It's held by two t20 security torx bits. If you loosen those, the actuator swivels a bit. Depending on how you swivel it, it adjusts opening size. So, have it swivelled too far one way and it can make the opening too big, causing permanent high idle.
A remnant from when I last cleaned the IACV and TB
New sensor fitted let's hope it passes emissions next week.
Quote from: davethediscoman on March 30, 2018, 17:42
New sensor fitted let's hope it passes emissions next week.
:o hey what are you doing on my thread ;)
Seriously though, good luck, I'm stressing about mine - I really need to get it back on the road!!
In reply to CallTheMidlife....
Quote from: Call the midlife! on March 30, 2018, 16:26
... have you tried Opie oils for the sensors? Around £53 last time...
You're right, £53.80 AND they do free delivery if you're buying more than £60-worth (i.e. two of them or even just one sensor + an O2 sensor socket)
https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-86057-denso-direct-fit-lambda-sensor-dox-0204-oxygen-o2-genuine-oe-part.aspx
The code you mentioned is not valid for lambda sensors and I didn't see any way to easily ask for a MR2ROC, but even their regular price, it would have saved me £9 + delivery (another £4-£8)... too late for me though :(
Quote from: BahnStormer on March 30, 2018, 18:20
Quote from: davethediscoman on March 30, 2018, 17:42
New sensor fitted let's hope it passes emissions next week.
:o hey what are you doing on my thread ;)
Seriously though, good luck, I'm stressing about mine - I really need to get it back on the road!!
In reply to CallTheMidlife....
Quote from: Call the midlife! on March 30, 2018, 16:26
... have you tried Opie oils for the sensors? Around £53 last time...
You're right, £53.80 AND they do free delivery if you're buying more than £60-worth (i.e. two of them or even just one sensor + an O2 sensor socket)
https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-86057-denso-direct-fit-lambda-sensor-dox-0204-oxygen-o2-genuine-oe-part.aspx
The code you mentioned is not valid for lambda sensors and I didn't see any way to easily ask for a MR2ROC, but even their regular price, it would have saved me £9 + delivery (another £4-£8)... too late for me though :(
Aah, bugger, sorry about that. To be honest I couldn't see anywhere to apply the ROC discount either so I replied to my order confirmation email with a cheeky ask!
Was worth it for 3 bottles of gearbox fluid.
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Quote from: shnazzle on March 30, 2018, 17:11
Quote from: wotugonado on March 30, 2018, 15:53
Quote from: shnazzle on March 30, 2018, 10:48
Jack the black just failed emissions on idle :(
Stuck IACV.
Just add it to the list ways to fail emissions
Unlucky!!! By coincidence I was reading up on iacv yesterday as I was wondering if that could affect the emissions, you've just given me the answer. What were your readings and how have you diagnosed the faulty iacv ? If mine struggles on the emissions this year this is next on my checklist
It's not so much faulty and poorly adjusted. It was idling at about 1400rpm when warm. So that's obviously far too high. So when they do the idle and emissions test they were obviously getting CO readings waaaayyy above the norm.
The other emissions tests all passed.
The IACV has an actuator on the outside. It's held by two t20 security torx bits. If you loosen those, the actuator swivels a bit. Depending on how you swivel it, it adjusts opening size. So, have it swivelled too far one way and it can make the opening too big, causing permanent high idle.
A remnant from when I last cleaned the IACV and TB
Ah ok. Food for thought then. Is it a big job to get throttle body off ?
Is there a how too on this?
Quote from: wotugonado on March 30, 2018, 19:32
Quote from: shnazzle on March 30, 2018, 17:11
Quote from: wotugonado on March 30, 2018, 15:53
Quote from: shnazzle on March 30, 2018, 10:48
Jack the black just failed emissions on idle :(
Stuck IACV.
Just add it to the list ways to fail emissions
Unlucky!!! By coincidence I was reading up on iacv yesterday as I was wondering if that could affect the emissions, you've just given me the answer. What were your readings and how have you diagnosed the faulty iacv ? If mine struggles on the emissions this year this is next on my checklist
It's not so much faulty and poorly adjusted. It was idling at about 1400rpm when warm. So that's obviously far too high. So when they do the idle and emissions test they were obviously getting CO readings waaaayyy above the norm.
The other emissions tests all passed.
The IACV has an actuator on the outside. It's held by two t20 security torx bits. If you loosen those, the actuator swivels a bit. Depending on how you swivel it, it adjusts opening size. So, have it swivelled too far one way and it can make the opening too big, causing permanent high idle.
A remnant from when I last cleaned the IACV and TB
Ah ok. Food for thought then. Is it a big job to get throttle body off ?
Is there a how too on this?
You know... I was putting it back on and then I was wondering whether I had done a how-to.
Turns out I haven't... But I can dream the process by now.
It's fiddly. Certainly not hard. I'll write something up and see if I can re-use pictures from others
Quote from: shnazzle on March 30, 2018, 19:37
Quote from: wotugonado on March 30, 2018, 19:32
Quote from: shnazzle on March 30, 2018, 17:11
Quote from: wotugonado on March 30, 2018, 15:53
Quote from: shnazzle on March 30, 2018, 10:48
Jack the black just failed emissions on idle :(
Stuck IACV.
Just add it to the list ways to fail emissions
Unlucky!!! By coincidence I was reading up on iacv yesterday as I was wondering if that could affect the emissions, you've just given me the answer. What were your readings and how have you diagnosed the faulty iacv ? If mine struggles on the emissions this year this is next on my checklist
It's not so much faulty and poorly adjusted. It was idling at about 1400rpm when warm. So that's obviously far too high. So when they do the idle and emissions test they were obviously getting CO readings waaaayyy above the norm.
The other emissions tests all passed.
The IACV has an actuator on the outside. It's held by two t20 security torx bits. If you loosen those, the actuator swivels a bit. Depending on how you swivel it, it adjusts opening size. So, have it swivelled too far one way and it can make the opening too big, causing permanent high idle.
A remnant from when I last cleaned the IACV and TB
Ah ok. Food for thought then. Is it a big job to get throttle body off ?
Is there a how too on this?
You know... I was putting it back on and then I was wondering whether I had done a how-to.
Turns out I haven't... But I can dream the process by now.
It's fiddly. Certainly not hard. I'll write something up and see if I can re-use pictures from others
You did a version on or around the 6th January this year, I know because I screen shotted the step by step but it's cleaning the IAV without removing it from the throttle body. So that bits sort of covered.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I should have piped up earlier, sorry.
Be great if you could do a how too, seems like a worthwhile maintenance job for most of us on our old/high mileage cars
Quote from: wotugonado on March 30, 2018, 21:23
I should have piped up earlier, sorry.
Be great if you could do a how too, seems like a worthwhile maintenance job for most of us on our old/high mileage cars
just to be clear, in case mine is suffering from this too: the throttle body issue is where the idle doesn't drop after the engine start to warm up? hopefully this is one I'm not going to be lumped with... since mine a July '07 car that has only just gone through 60k... and although the idle starts pretty high (just over 1400rpm), but drops significantly after a few minutes...
btw - who is well versed in restoring the EML that has been tampered with on mine? Apparently "only a 5min job", but I'd gladly drive an hour* or so to get somebody who has done this before to have a fiddle, rather than me do it: I'm guessing people don't write how-to's on how to remove the card/blue-tack, since that would pretty much be the same as how you should add it in the first place?
*gives me a good excuse to rag it around early on a weekend morning across Surrey/Sussex/Hampshire... all are easily accessible from where I am in NW Surrey/SW London.
This link might help you:
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=61863.0
Removing the dash truly is a job for anybody. It seems very daunting but it isn't.
Lower steering wheel, pull off binnacle, undo 3 obvious screw and unplug 3 plugs. With the help of a small flat screwdriver. The rest is obvious.
If your revs are about 1200 or so at cold and then drop to 750ish when warm, you're all good :)
Quote from: shnazzle on March 30, 2018, 23:11
This link might help you:
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=61863.0
Removing the dash truly is a job for anybody. It seems very daunting but it isn't.
Lower steering wheel, pull off binnacle, undo 3 obvious screw and unplug 3 plugs. With the help of a small flat screwdriver. The rest is obvious.
If your revs are about 1200 or so at cold and then drop to 750ish when warm, you're all good :)
Dash done: there was a black glue poured into the hole... right PITA to extract, but it's done! Are car dealerships honestly allowed to do this? I bought mine trade, so surely they have a duty to not knowingly hide faults - or is this just going to be a case of me not being able to prove that it was them - even though the timing is more than coincidental that they had bought the car and several months later got it to pass an MOT (when the EML light must have been on and the lambda sensors failing).... they're getting a 1-star review on every site I can find. I've got a lot of positive feedback on my google reviews, so they get bumped to the top :).... either they knowing did this or incompetently didn't check the car at all and sold it on regardless.
Kinda my own fault for not spotting that the light NEVER came one, even in the first couple of months - that said - Mr T also did a "FULL SERVICE" - and I specifically asked for the "big one, incl cam chain check, etc", specifically to catch any such errors while the car was still going to be repaired by the 3rd party dealers that sold it to me (it came with a 3 month warranty).
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/LostBok/car-MR2/O2-Lambda%20Sensor/th_2018-03-31%2015.59.32_zps0pbkopzw.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/LostBok/media/car-MR2/O2-Lambda%20Sensor/2018-03-31%2015.59.32_zps0pbkopzw.jpg.html) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/LostBok/car-MR2/O2-Lambda%20Sensor/th_2018-03-31%2016.07.02_zpsibicko1f.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/LostBok/media/car-MR2/O2-Lambda%20Sensor/2018-03-31%2016.07.02_zpsibicko1f.jpg.html)
light comes on now.... and off again... but more about that in a second...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/LostBok/car-MR2/O2-Lambda%20Sensor/th_2018-03-31%2016.26.09_zpsvsll7osx.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/LostBok/media/car-MR2/O2-Lambda%20Sensor/2018-03-31%2016.26.09_zpsvsll7osx.jpg.html)
Quote from: BahnStormer on March 30, 2018, 13:32
edit: cancelling the Bosch/Denso from GSF and I'll just order the Denso ones from sparkplugs.co.uk for delivery next week.
(Likes) Ardent and Carolyn like this
Did I mention I'm REALLY impatient?!? (I feel kinda bad.... despite all the support and advice to wait for the Denso, I realised that if did a 90min round-trip, I could go past 2x GSF's that had the parts I needed and get it all done this weekend and MOT'd on Tuesday)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/LostBok/car-MR2/O2-Lambda%20Sensor/th_2018-03-31%2015.25.02_zpskk15bwmu.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/LostBok/media/car-MR2/O2-Lambda%20Sensor/2018-03-31%2015.25.02_zpskk15bwmu.jpg.html) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/LostBok/car-MR2/O2-Lambda%20Sensor/th_2018-03-31%2014.01.30_zps15mm3eke.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/LostBok/media/car-MR2/O2-Lambda%20Sensor/2018-03-31%2014.01.30_zps15mm3eke.jpg.html)
Bish... Bash....
Bosch..... job done.
Old ones on the right, new one on the left:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/LostBok/car-MR2/O2-Lambda%20Sensor/th_2018-03-31%2015.36.18_zpsypfsjvba.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/LostBok/media/car-MR2/O2-Lambda%20Sensor/2018-03-31%2015.36.18_zpsypfsjvba.jpg.html)
The faults that were re-appearing immediately yesterday are now completely gone. I took it for a run around the block and checked again. Definitely gone. I'll give it a good run on Tuesday morning and re-test @ the MOT station. Will it need a long run to clear out the cat? Or is the cat stuffed after running about 6000 miles VERY rich with extra high HC+CO?
First off well done on sorting it, secondly that black glue looks suspiciously like a black gasket sealant my mechanic uses for exhausts. I haven't personally seen it on sale to the public, if it is a trade only item it would really narrow down the suspects
Quote from: wotugonado on March 31, 2018, 22:36
First off well done on sorting it, secondly that black glue looks suspiciously like a black gasket sealant my mechanic uses for exhausts. I haven't personally seen it on sale to the public, if it is a trade only item it would really narrow down the suspects
it does "look" heat resistant... it's like a black silicon sealant, but with quite a fibrous centre that was breaking up as I was trying to pull it out.... wot T0553R5.... silicon sealant would have done the (sneaky) job and been easier to remove. It honestly too me 3x longer to remove that (~30mins) that it took to swap the two O2 sensors (<10mins).... albeit those cost £120 more, but this sort of thing really infuriates me as I'm quite a noobie and I was able to fix the source of the problem fairly easily and they could have done the same with cheap parts (~£50 for 2x retail priced sensors, albeit nasty buget ones) rather than resorting to sabotage to hide the fault.
Total outlay:
£10 EMD327 OBD2 bluetooth reader (more expensive one with Amazon next day delivery)*
£3 Torque Pro @ Android Play Store
£7.50 22m sensor socket(more expensive one with Amazon next day delivery)*
£124 2x Bosch Lambda sensors (DOX-0204 equivalents)*
£25 on petrol* - nearly 100miles driven (in the snotwagon, since the '2 has a failed MOT and there's ANPR camera's everywhere around me.... 25mpg is an effort of will!)
TOTAL@ ~£170
*reference earlier "impatience comment", if I was willing to settle for less and wait days/weeks, that could have been budget EML327 (£2), Torque Lite (£0), 22mm Sensor socket (£5), 2xDenso sensors (£108) and no driving (OpieOils = free delivery).... £115 total.
Still.... not bad, considering Mr-T was going to charge me £150 for the initial investigation and then apparently £210 per sensor!! (£570)
Proof will be in the MOT on Tuesday... might still need a new cat :(
Well done you for sorting it.
3 lessons here.
1. You can do most things yourself with perseverance and a helpful club.
2. Dont go to Mr.T or any main stealer.
3. Don't trust secondhand car dealers.
Well it points to a dodgy mot tester or dodgy car dealer. If the mot tester fudged the emissions and ignored the eml that'll get Em in the shit if reported, if the dealer covered it up before or after mot then that's shows they deliberately mislead the customer.
The problem is, it's always a drawn out process to get anything done about anything in this country.
Result! Fair play
Quote from: wotugonado on April 1, 2018, 00:51
Well it points to a dodgy mot tester or dodgy car dealer. If the mot tester fudged the emissions and ignored the eml that'll get Em in the poopoo if reported, if the dealer covered it up before or after mot then that's shows they deliberately mislead the customer.
The problem is, it's always a drawn out process to get anything done about anything in this country.
My money is on both: I doubt a car dealer would have ignored the EML light and they had the car for 6 months before the MOT test, so they knew exactly what they were doing when that "passed"....
Quote from: 1979scotte on April 1, 2018, 00:15
Well done you for sorting it.
Thanks! And thanks again for all the help, fingers crossed for Tuesday! Will be nice to see how much a VERY high fail improves by just with the O2 sensors sorted...
Quote from: 1979scotte on April 1, 2018, 00:15
3 lessons here.
1. You can do most things yourself with perseverance and a helpful club.
2. Dont go to Mr.T or any main stealer.
3. Don't trust secondhand car dealers.
#1 - agreed: dash access was VERY easy compared to my old Golf/Audi!!!! and the O2 sensors were a 10min swap once I had the right information (OBC2), advice (you guys and girls) and tools (22mm grooved socket).
#2 - in my defence, I knew I'd pay over the odds, but I took it to them SPECIFICALLY for any Toyota-specific issue and proper diags that should be carried out for a large interval service. They dropped the ball massively!
#3 - it's a cliché, they're utter scum, I know.... I'm kicking myself more than angry at them as I never would have let that get past me if it was a private sale AND I've taken friends to buy dozens of cars in the past and spotted this several times... but completely missed it on my own purchase - I think I had one roof-down blast around some nice country roads and has hooked...
Dave and BahnStormer:
I'm not big on spending other peoples' money but..
You both might want to run some Cataclean though your cars before retest?
Quote from: Carolyn on April 1, 2018, 12:32
You both might want to run some Cataclean though your cars before retest?
Yep. On that already. I put two in. Only problem is that they recommend one bottle every 15 litres and I had a full tank, so I'm out to get another one now. Just trying to work out how much of a run it needs before a retest.
Quote from: BahnStormer on March 30, 2018, 11:53
Okay mine had three error codes, looks like it is pointing at the 2x manifold O2 sensors...
"P0135-Powertrain: O2 Sensor Heater Circuit (Bank 1 Sensor 1)"
"P0142-Powertrain: O2 Sensor Heater Circuit (Bank 1 Sensor 2)"
"P0171-Powertrain: System too Lean (Bank 1)"
I cleared the error and started the engine and I got one of them* back immediately... guessing only a matter of time before the other one comes through too?
*"P0135-Powertrain: O2 Sensor Heater Circuit (Bank 1 Sensor 1)"
No sign of the second error (yet), but I'm guessing it's only a matter of time?
Oops.... looks like "Bank 1 Sensor 2" is the lower sensor as per Carolyn's note... and I have just replaced the top two.... entirely my own fault for not reading Carolyn's instructions!!
Quote from: Carolyn on March 29, 2018, 16:36
Bank 1 sensor 1 is towards the pulley end of the engine in the manifold.
Bank 2 sensor 1 is the other sensor in the manifold.
Bank 1 sensor 2 is just after the main cat and has a longer wire.
I just took the car for a run: Now I'm getting the "bank 1 sensor 2" error again... kicking myself for but at least I had a working EML to let me know it was happening... and the Bluetooth OBD2 adapter to work out what the EML light was for... DOX0206 on order... penetrating spray applied... sensor socket on standby.... part due for delivery on Weds/Thurs.
I think bank 1 sensor 2 only detects at running temperature and with sustained 2000rpm, i had one which would stay quiet for days on end and then EML again after a longer faster drive.
Quote from: paulj on April 1, 2018, 18:26
I think bank 1 sensor 2 only detects at running temperature and with sustained 2000rpm, i had one which would stay quiet for days on end and then EML again after a longer faster drive.
Makes sense, this was the first proper run, previously I'd just idled around the block. Today was a proper B road blast. Not sure when it came on as the roof was down and I was very focused on the road and revs... I was trying to get some heat through the engine+exhaust system to let the Cataclean do it's work and I was having a little heel'n'toe practice session at the same time, so suffice to say revs were "sustained over 2000rpm" for quite a while...
The "confirmation driving pattern" is
- turn engine off
- ignition on and idle for 2 mins
- drive at 24+ mph for 20sec or more
- idle for 20sec or more
- drive for 20sec at 24mph+
- idle for 30sec
Quote from: shnazzle on April 1, 2018, 20:08
The "confirmation driving pattern" is
- turn engine off
- ignition on and idle for 2 mins
- drive at 24+ mph for 20sec or more
- idle for 20sec or more
- drive for 20sec at 24mph+
- idle for 30sec
Useful to know - far more scientific than my method of.... "warm up engine and then rag it for a while"....
Quote from: BahnStormer on April 1, 2018, 18:17
I just took the car for a run: Now I'm getting the "bank 1 sensor 2" error again... kicking myself for but at least I had a working EML to let me know it was happening... and the Bluetooth OBD2 adapter to work out what the EML light was for... DOX0206 on order... penetrating spray applied... sensor socket on standby.... part due for delivery on Weds/Thurs.
As you mention you are not noted for your patience ( I can relate when trying to get a car through the MOT) and that your original plan was to take it in tomorrow ? Just thought I would mention that you don't need a working post cat sensor to get through the MOT, I know 'cos I've done it (and I believe that the JDM version of the Mk3, the MR S doesn't even have a post cat sensor).
Unlike the other two sensors, the post cat sensor has no effect on fuelling it just monitors CAT condition. On my first Roadster (a UK car) I needed a new CAT to get through the MOT but the sensor was completely seized into position on my existing CAT ( a common problem) so I just plugged the hole in the new CAT with a bolt , which was fine for the MOT.
So if you wanted to get it in for MOT sooner just clear any CEL codes straight before hand and you should be fine (you may be better off disconnecting your post cat sensor which is effectively what I did, just don't leave the connector plug hanging down for the garage to find ).
Alternatively if you can wait till you get your new sensor then it obviously makes sense to do so, just hope your old one is more ready to budge than mine was....... :)
Thanks! Good to know!! Combined with what I've seen and since been told about the "confirmation driving pattern" (thanks Schnazzle), I guess that error won't reset itself in a hurry... so if you're right about it not altering fueling, then I've got a chance with the MOT as-is. It's free for the retest, so worth a try!
The only cost is time and annoyance: both the MOT tester and me needing to ask to WFH / clock in at work late... not wanting to have to do that too often....
FYI
Quote from: K T M Rider on September 17, 2010, 19:04
took car back to MOT station today (after fitting new cat and spark plugs & changing oil to Mobil 1 15w50) and it sailed through s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
HC down from 119ppm to 6
CO down from 0.896% to 0.009.
As Cap suggested I checked the fuel trims - all looked fine and performance and economy (35/37mpg) all seemed good to me over the 700 miles I did in the car between MOT & retest, so was happy that did not have an injector problem.
The P0420 ( Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold) code kept coming back, so together with the emissions fail, I just assumed that it was the Cat at fault.
Less than 48hrs before the retest I discovered that the post cat sensor simply wouldn't budge out of the old cat, so took the car back for retest with no post cat sensor - just filled the sensor hole in the new cat with a suitable bolt!
Old spark plugs (NGK BKR5EYA11s) looked fine apart from the circa 2mm gap, I replaced like for like.
Going to 15w50 Mobil 1 has cut the visible oil burning at high rpm (judging by what comes out of the car when revving to 6k at standstill) so may also have helped a little bit on the emissions (HC?)
MOT passed!!
BEFORE:
MOT: emissions 20180324
Fast Idle:
CO=7.165% (max = 0.2%)
HC=812ppm (max = 200ppm)
Lamda=0.780 (min = 0.97)
Natural Idle:
CO=5.108% (max 0.3%)
AFTER (2x manifold O2 sensors + 3 bottles of Cataclean and 50 miles later)
MOT: emissions 20180403
Fast Idle:
CO= 0.18% (max 0.2%)
HC = 153ppm (Max 200ppm)
Lambda 1.01 (0.97-1.03)
Natural Idle:
CO=0.01% (max 0.3%)
Not exactly a stellar pass, but it's still a pass and it might need a new cat next year (or might just need time for the Cataclean to get to work and the old cat to clear a bit more)... I'm still getting an O2 sensor fail on the post-cat one, but I'll sort that out this week and look at a new cat if the sensor is still flagging a fault after that.
Thanks again for all the help!
Quote from: BahnStormer on April 3, 2018, 15:34
MOT passed!!
BEFORE:
MOT: emissions 20180324
Fast Idle:
CO=7.165% (max = 0.2%)
HC=812ppm (max = 200ppm)
Lamda=0.780 (min = 0.97)
Natural Idle:
CO=5.108% (max 0.3%)
AFTER (2x manifold O2 sensors + 3 bottles of Cataclean and 50 miles later)
MOT: emissions 20180403
Fast Idle:
CO= 0.18% (max 0.2%)
HC = 153ppm (Max 200ppm)
Lambda 1.01 (0.97-1.03)
Natural Idle:
CO=0.01% (max 0.3%)
Not exactly a stellar pass, but it's still a pass and it might need a new cat next year (or might just need time for the Cataclean to get to work and the old cat to clear a bit more)... I'm still getting an O2 sensor fail on the post-cat one, but I'll sort that out this week and look at a new cat if the sensor is still flagging a fault after that.
Thanks again for all the help!
I work in QC, a pass is a pass! Mine only just sneaked through as well in December so I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it, the main cat is the only part I haven't replaced but will have to shortly I imagine.
Well done!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
B Stormer
Midlife beat me to it.
A pass is a pass.
So now that little issue is out the way.
No issue with the handbrake then? Thats a common fail on these cars.
Lets talk about sub frames, rear brakes, UJs, tyres and fresh suspension. ;D
Well played chap.
Now get out there and enjoy. 8)
Top down obviously
Quote from: Ardent on April 3, 2018, 17:26
No issue with the handbrake then? Thats a common fail on these cars.
Lets talk about sub frames, rear brakes, UJs, tyres and fresh suspension. ;D
in order...
I think mine had the handbrake as an advisory several times about 4yrs ago, so I assume somebody sorted that - seems fine now.
Rear subframe has some rust, but not bad... if I had somewhere to to work on it, I would have a crack at that, but I think this going to have to get done when I stump up the cash to get somebody to put a V6 in it...
Rear brakes have had "corrosion" advisories on the service notes, but I'm clearly using them enough to ensure that has been scrubbed off.... I WAS eyeing up some stock-sized Black Diamonds or may just resort to Brembo's since they'll look 100% stock and very reliable. Car isn't heavy enough to warrant big discs.
UJ - eeek! news to me!
Tyres: already done those - new Yoko's all around!
Suspension will clearly have to change before any more power/weight gets added, but that's next on the list - I'm still on original suspension and the car has been on the road since July 2007 and clocked up 60k miles.
Quote from: Ardent on April 3, 2018, 17:26
Top down obviously
ALWAYS - rain is a slight deterrent, but sub zero temperatures / lack of daylight doesn't stop me.... although I'm sure I'm going to get pulled over one day for ragging it around country roads late at night with the roof down!
Hi all. Just a quick update sensor has reduced the emissions for a pass. One happy mr2 roadster owner here.
Thanks for all your help. Most grateful.
Dave.
As the originator of the thread, you deserve a 'well done', your self.
Very pleased that you got the result.
I hope it helps others carolin. As you know not all the faults are the same solutions, but having a point in the right direction to check really does help.
Woohoo!
Good news.
Quote from: davethediscoman on April 4, 2018, 19:22
I hope it helps others carolin. As you know not all the faults are the same solutions, but having a point in the right direction to check really does help.
Thanks Dave (and all the contributors and supporters!). Dave, I was going to just leave the '2 at a garage to be looked at in a couple of weeks, but the thread you started pinged enough things in my head that made me think you had similar symptoms to mine (800+ppm on the HC and mine was 30x CO limit!), so I had a crack at it and you probably saved me well over £500 (apparently Mr T charge £150 for the diags and £210 per sensor!), not to mention getting my car back on the road a week or two earlier than it would have been...
Summary solution / initial pointers (with costs):Stage 1: diagnose (before/after emissions fail) = £10 for the fastest and most complete solution.
Requirements:
a) £2-£7 for an ELM327 OBD2 reader off Amazon (price depends how fast you want it), about £15 if you need the Apple compatible version.
b) £0-£3 for Torque Android software (Lite/Pro) - Pro seemed to have a lot of nice sounding features, so I never tried Lite.
Action: run Torque, SAVE and clear codes, then run the car again to through a couple of cycles to see which sensors are consistently failing.
Difficulty Level 1/10 Plug in OBD2 next to right knee, pair bluetooth on your Android* phone and run an app.
*iPhone solutions are available, but just a ot more expensive and slightly more complicated -
you makes yer choices ;)
Stage 2: replace failed components (varies, £60-£170).
Requirements:
a) £7.50 22mm Lambda sensor socket = £7 (highly recommended!) - plugs into any ratched/spanner
b) Sensors, ~£55-£65 each - see thread for ideas on where to source them: I think OpieOils were the cheapest for Denso and GSF were the cheapest store that you could go into, but those were Bosch parts and relied on a 60% Easter discount, otherwise £155 each!
Actions:
"Bank 1/2 Sensor1" (top of manifold) - unclip the leads, unscrew the sensor and replace and plug in the new lead.
"Bank1 Sensor2" (post cat) - same process, but more wiring, so trace the wire from near the exhaust up to the plug near the LHS tail light and unplug, free up the wire and then it's exactly the same, albeit more awkward.
Difficult level 2/10 for "Bank 1/2 Sensor1" (top of manifold) and 2.5/10 for "Bank1 Sensor2" (post cat). You'll get a little dirty, but it's not complicated / dangerous / risky. The only difficult bit is if the sensors have become seized.
Caveats / glitches that people seem to have hit:
- you may not have an Engine Warning / Check Engine / EML light on the dash if some parasite has sabotaged this previously. Usually checking that the light comes on for a couple of seconds as you turn the ignition on is enough, although apparently some people wire these to the battery and all sorts to hide that warning.... grrr.... just use an OBD2 reader to get the actual story.
- if you have the OBD2 adapter in when you first turn on the ignition, you can get a flickering ABS light. "Fix": ignition off, OBD2 adapter out, ignition on, OBD2 back in... note: may cause mild panic and a certain level of "WTF" incredulity if the first time you see this is after you've changed the first sensor, no idea how I know this ::)
- O2 sensors stuck/seized in manifold/exhaust: I used WD40 "Penetrating Spray" before attempting any of mine and it's only 60k miles / 10yrs old and at least one was aftermarket, so my manifold ones came out easily, but likely to be an issue for 15+yr old cars on original sensors! My lower cat one was a real pain... I did the write-up with the job 95% done, but fell at the final hurdle and had to re-assemble it all.... TIP: don't bother with the sensor socket adapter for the post-cat sensor - it is almost essential for the top two, but actually makes the job MORE DIFFICULT for the last one - a fairly long 22mm spanner (£7 from Halfords / £4 if you reserve it online first) did the job almost immediately. Or go slightly overkill and get a breaker bar, etc as per Carolyn's recommendation ;) But honestly, I don't think that would have helped due to the longer socket that I was using.
- if your car has been running with failed sensors (likely very rich) for a while, you may have to run some Cataclean to help clear all that fuel residue out of the cat. One bottle per 15 litres of petrol, so £45 for 3 bottle if you've just filled up the tank ::) (yes, me again!)
- not so much a glitch, just a tip - aside from one v stiff sensor socket, the clips on the cable are the most "difficult" (fiddly) bit. Not sure if everybody's clips will be the same as mine, as somebody else had mentioned needing a screw driver, which confused me for a while.... but mine all had a plastic pinch mechanism where you had to squeeze the back of the plug to release it: so look you can see it: LHS manifold sensor cable on mine as it was clearly visible there (push from the top), after that every clip was the same, but with a different orientation: from the bottom for the other manifold and from the LHS behind the tail light on the side of the fluid container.
- bear in mind that even after you've replaced all the sensors, etc.... you may still need a new cat... sorry.
Short posts also available on request.... :D
edit#1: RHS/LHS correction, thanks CTM!
edit#2: typo's and post-cat / spanner saga update.
Also want to mention, if you get a code come up for the O2 sensor relating to the O2 heater circuit - but the sensor itself is showing voltage when the engine is up to temp, you can bridge the heater circuit with a 15ohm 25w resistor. The heater is only used to get the O2 sensor up to temp when cold, when its up to temp it turns off - I believe all 3 heaters have gone on mine so I have the EML on.
Only mentioning this as after mid May with the new MOT the EML light must come on then go off when the engine is started - I need to get this sorted on mine.
Quote from: BahnStormer on April 5, 2018, 11:39
Quote from: davethediscoman on April 4, 2018, 19:22
I hope it helps others carolin. As you know not all the faults are the same solutions, but having a point in the right direction to check really does help.
Thanks Dave (and all the contributors and supporters!). Dave, I was going to just leave the '2 at a garage to be looked at in a couple of weeks, but the thread you started pinged enough things in my head that made me think you had similar symptoms to mine (800+ppm on the HC and mine was 30x CO limit!), so I had a crack at it and you probably saved me well over £500 (apparently Mr T charge £150 for the diags and £210 per sensor!), not to mention getting my car back on the road a week or two earlier than it would have been...
Summary solution / initial pointers (with costs):
Stage 1: diagnose (before/after emissions fail) = £10 for the fastest and most complete solution.
Requirements:
a) £2-£7 for an ELM327 OBD2 reader off Amazon (price depends how fast you want it), about £15 if you need the Apple compatible version.
b) £0-£3 for Torque Android software (Lite/Pro) - Pro seemed to have a lot of nice sounding features, so I never tried Lite.
Action: run Torque, SAVE and clear codes, then run the car again to through a couple of cycles to see which sensors are consistently failing.
Difficulty Level 1/10 Plug in OBD2 next to right knee, pair bluetooth on your Android* phone and run an app.
*iPhone solutions are available, but just a ot more expensive and slightly more complicated - you makes yer choices ;)
Stage 2: replace failed components (varies, £60-£170).
Requirements:
a) £7.50 22mm Lambda sensor socket = £7 (highly recommended!) - plugs into any ratched/spanner
b) Sensors, ~£55-£65 each - see thread for ideas on where to source them: I think OpieOils were the cheapest for Denso and GSF were the cheapest store that you could go into, but those were Bosch parts and relied on a 60% Easter discount, otherwise £155 each!
Actions:
"Bank 1/2 Sensor1" (top of manifold) - unclip the leads, unscrew the sensor and replace and plug in the new lead.
"Bank1 Sensor2" (post cat) - same process, but more wiring, so trace the wire from near the exhaust up to the plug near the RHS tail light and unplug, free up the wire and then it's exactly the same, albeit more awkward.
Difficult level 2/10 for "Bank 1/2 Sensor1" (top of manifold) and 2.5/10 for "Bank1 Sensor2" (post cat). You'll get a little dirty, but it's not complicated / dangerous / risky.
Caveats / glitches that people seem to have hit:
- you may not have an Engine Warning / Check Engine / EML light on the dash if some parasite has sabotaged this previously. Usually checking that the light comes on for a couple of seconds as you turn the ignition on is enough, although apparently some people wire these to the battery and all sorts to hide that warning.... grrr.... just use an OBD2 reader to get the actual story.
- if you have the OBD2 adapter in when you first turn on the ignition, you can get a flickering ABS light. "Fix": ignition off, OBD2 adapter out, ignition on, OBD2 back in... note: may cause mild panic and a certain level of "WTF" incredulity if the first time you see this is after you've changed the first sensor, no idea how I know this ::)
- O2 sensors stuck/seized in manifold/exhaust: I used WD40 "Penetrating Spray" before attempting any of mine and it's only 60k miles / 10yrs old and at least one was aftermarket, so mine came out easily, but likely to be an issue for 15+yr old cars on original sensors!
- if you car has been running with failed sensors (likely very rich) for a while, you may have to run some Cataclean to help clear all that fuel residue out of the cat. One bottle per 15 litres of petrol, so £45 for 3 bottle if you've just filled up the tank ::) (yes, me again!)
- bear in mind that even after you've replaced all the sensors, you may still need a new cat... sorry.
Short posts also available on request.... :D
Well played.
That is my post of the day and embodies the spirit of this club.
Quote from: BahnStormer on April 5, 2018, 11:39
Quote from: davethediscoman on April 4, 2018, 19:22
I hope it helps others carolin. As you know not all the faults are the same solutions, but having a point in the right direction to check really does help.
Thanks Dave (and all the contributors and supporters!). Dave, I was going to just leave the '2 at a garage to be looked at in a couple of weeks, but the thread you started pinged enough things in my head that made me think you had similar symptoms to mine (800+ppm on the HC and mine was 30x CO limit!), so I had a crack at it and you probably saved me well over £500 (apparently Mr T charge £150 for the diags and £210 per sensor!), not to mention getting my car back on the road a week or two earlier than it would have been...
Summary solution / initial pointers (with costs):
Stage 1: diagnose (before/after emissions fail) = £10 for the fastest and most complete solution.
Requirements:
a) £2-£7 for an ELM327 OBD2 reader off Amazon (price depends how fast you want it), about £15 if you need the Apple compatible version.
b) £0-£3 for Torque Android software (Lite/Pro) - Pro seemed to have a lot of nice sounding features, so I never tried Lite.
Action: run Torque, SAVE and clear codes, then run the car again to through a couple of cycles to see which sensors are consistently failing.
Difficulty Level 1/10 Plug in OBD2 next to right knee, pair bluetooth on your Android* phone and run an app.
*iPhone solutions are available, but just a ot more expensive and slightly more complicated - you makes yer choices ;)
Stage 2: replace failed components (varies, £60-£170).
Requirements:
a) £7.50 22mm Lambda sensor socket = £7 (highly recommended!) - plugs into any ratched/spanner
b) Sensors, ~£55-£65 each - see thread for ideas on where to source them: I think OpieOils were the cheapest for Denso and GSF were the cheapest store that you could go into, but those were Bosch parts and relied on a 60% Easter discount, otherwise £155 each!
Actions:
"Bank 1/2 Sensor1" (top of manifold) - unclip the leads, unscrew the sensor and replace and plug in the new lead.
"Bank1 Sensor2" (post cat) - same process, but more wiring, so trace the wire from near the exhaust up to the plug near the RHS tail light and unplug, free up the wire and then it's exactly the same, albeit more awkward.
Difficult level 2/10 for "Bank 1/2 Sensor1" (top of manifold) and 2.5/10 for "Bank1 Sensor2" (post cat). You'll get a little dirty, but it's not complicated / dangerous / risky.
Caveats / glitches that people seem to have hit:
- you may not have an Engine Warning / Check Engine / EML light on the dash if some parasite has sabotaged this previously. Usually checking that the light comes on for a couple of seconds as you turn the ignition on is enough, although apparently some people wire these to the battery and all sorts to hide that warning.... grrr.... just use an OBD2 reader to get the actual story.
- if you have the OBD2 adapter in when you first turn on the ignition, you can get a flickering ABS light. "Fix": ignition off, OBD2 adapter out, ignition on, OBD2 back in... note: may cause mild panic and a certain level of "WTF" incredulity if the first time you see this is after you've changed the first sensor, no idea how I know this ::)
- O2 sensors stuck/seized in manifold/exhaust: I used WD40 "Penetrating Spray" before attempting any of mine and it's only 60k miles / 10yrs old and at least one was aftermarket, so mine came out easily, but likely to be an issue for 15+yr old cars on original sensors!
- if you car has been running with failed sensors (likely very rich) for a while, you may have to run some Cataclean to help clear all that fuel residue out of the cat. One bottle per 15 litres of petrol, so £45 for 3 bottle if you've just filled up the tank ::) (yes, me again!)
- bear in mind that even after you've replaced all the sensors, you may still need a new cat... sorry.
Short posts also available on request.... :D
Good work! One minor query, you state post cat plugs in near RHS tail light, shouldn't that read LHS tail light?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Ardent on April 5, 2018, 22:37
Quote from: BahnStormer on April 5, 2018, 11:39
[BIG SUMMARY]...Short posts also available on request.... :D
Well played.
That is my post of the day and embodies the spirit of this club.
Thanks - worth noting there were a few corrections after your quote.... I'm very worried/impressed that CTM actually read through the entire post, despite clearly knowing how to do this with his eyes closed and spotted that I'd directed people to fish around behind the wrong (RHS) tail light... hopefully people would have found the sensor (very visible from under the rear of the car) and and realised the typo/brain-fade, but worth correcting!
Removing the last sensor. As you're going to replace it:
a) get your self a breaker bar (very handy for many jobs)
b) get yourself a plumber's torch (very handy for many jobs) and heat the hell out of the socket in the cat. Undo while still hot.
Don't consider the cost of the tools as 'cost of the job' but rather a bonus addition to your toolkit. That's, rubbish. of course, but you'll feel better.
Quote from: BahnStormer on April 6, 2018, 07:20
Quote from: Ardent on April 5, 2018, 22:37
Quote from: BahnStormer on April 5, 2018, 11:39
[BIG SUMMARY]...Short posts also available on request.... :D
Well played.
That is my post of the day and embodies the spirit of this club.
Thanks - worth noting there were a few corrections after your quote.... I'm very worried/impressed that CTM actually read through the entire post, despite clearly knowing how to do this with his eyes closed and spotted that I'd directed people to fish around behind the wrong (RHS) tail light... hopefully people would have found the sensor (very visible from under the rear of the car) and and realised the typo/brain-fade, but worth correcting!
Hey, if someone's taken the time to produce something like that the least I can do is take the time to read it, I was tired and it had me second guessing myself! As for doing it with my eyes closed, if you see my car in the flesh you'd think that's how I do everything [emoji23]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Carolyn on April 6, 2018, 07:34
Removing the last sensor. As you're going to replace it:
a) get your self a breaker bar (very handy for many jobs)
b) get yourself a plumber's torch (very handy for many jobs) and heat the hell out of the socket in the cat. Undo while still hot.
Don't consider the cost of the tools as 'cost of the job' but rather a bonus addition to your toolkit. That's, rubbish. of course, but you'll feel better.
Just as a supplemental to this, I got a two heat, electric heat gun for tasks like these. A bit more user friendly if you're not confident with fire around your vehicle and the lower setting is good for shrink tubing, warming up stick-backed plastic etc. Around £20 if I remember rightly.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the breaker bar tips, etc - not sure that would have worked though: I got hold of a fairly long handled wrench for the 22mm sensor socket, but it was the offset created by the socket that meant I was struggling to put much torque through the line of the bolt cleanly (if that makes sense?)...
A regular (non-offset) spanner was perfect: turns out that it should have been £4 if I'd just reserved it in advance!! (http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/spanners-wrenches/halfords-advances-combination-spanner).
I tried the open-sided part initially, but the round one gave me a lot more options in terms of angles and a lot more confidence that it was always on cleanly and I wasn't going to slip and round off the sensor! Since it's 22mm, I was able to thread the wire through easily and get it out in literally less than a minute... I figure that the regular wrench with the 22mm sensor socket was enough torque for putting it back on, so I didn't bother doing the same for the new one.
edit: ('cos I'm actually getting embarrassed about the extent of my thread hijack - probably the most gratuitous I've ever seen, let alone done!!)
Quote from: Call the midlife! on April 6, 2018, 07:55Just as a supplemental to this, I got a two heat, electric heat gun for tasks like these. A bit more user friendly if you're not confident with fire around your vehicle and the lower setting is good for shrink tubing, warming up stick-backed plastic etc. Around £20 if I remember rightly.
Thanks, I'll bear that in mind for future: I have a VERY destructive family, so replace screen on phones and tablets on a regular basis, so I already have one of these - didn't think to use it on the exhaust though!!
Quote from: Carolyn on April 6, 2018, 07:34
Don't consider the cost of the tools as 'cost of the job' but rather a bonus addition to your toolkit. That's, rubbish. of course, but you'll feel better.
"The Job" vs the cost of doing it elsewhere was the way to justify buying the tools, the way I look at it, the costs would have been:
1) Mr T: 2 week delay, £150 (diags) + 3x £210 (sensors fitted) + £12 (taxi) = £792
2) Local Indy: 2 week delay, ~£400 (best guess is half what Mr T charge).
3) Me: roughly one week faster, £52 + 2x £62 (sensors from GSF) + £7.50 (22mm socket) + £7 (OBD2 scanner) + £3 (Torque Pro) + £20 (unused wrench handle, but will be useful later) + £7 (22mm spanner) = £220.50 + some petrol money... so probably half as much as an indy and well under a third of the price of Mr T.... plus I learnt a lot, fixed the broken EML light that Mr T missed in their £350 "Full 60k mile Service" AND I got 3 new tools and 2 cool diagnostics tools that will be useful for years to come. I could have done it at least £50 cheaper if I hadn't bought the extra wrench and been a little less impatient/less naive with some of it (pickup from GSF vs waiting for OpieOils, not pre-ordering my Halfords pickups, etc.... plus a few other rushed orders).
I'd be happy to come along and help anybody else within a few of hours drive of N Surrey / SW London (for the approx cost of petrol money*, so the missus doesn't tear me a new one) - I'm happy to travel out early one weekend morning and help with the fitting, if you don't fancy having a crack at this yourselves, but I'd really encourage people to have a go: at very least, £10 on the OBD2 scanner and Torque Pro is a good investment in ANY car ownership and then you can order the sensors and decide if you'd rather buy the tools and try for yourself or fund my morning drive :) Honestly: £7.50 for the 22mm sensor socket and £4 for the 22mm spanner and just have a go... with the right advice and support (Carolyn, CTM, Scotte, shnazzle and Ardent to name a few!) and the right tools (detailed in this thread, this post and the summary), this is NOT a difficult job!
*hell, if you've got a nice country lane or A-road route from J10-J12 (M25) to your place, I'll do it for free... mostly 'cos there's a decent chance I'd be going past your house one morning anyway just "exploring"...
final edit: I've been tracking my fuel economy closely for the last few months: average 27mpg.... mostly ragging it on country lanes, with some pootling.... latest tank (after the O2 sensors are fixed, but all country lanes)..... and I got >34mpg?!? Although that drops to 30mpg if I count the 4.5 litres of Cataclean as fuel.... still, at least 10% better than I was getting...
Final, final edit (possibly):
The six tank-fulls before I fixed the O2 sensor issue: 27.7mpg
The six tank-fulls after I fixed the O2 sensor issue: 33.6mpg
This is all relative, but this is for my daily(ish) commute: ~30 miles of a mixture of idling along in traffic and then a proper B-road cross-country thrash, constantly braking to ~30mph for tight/unsighted corners and back up to 50/60mph before standing on the brakes again and heel-and-toeing back down to 2nd ready to launch out of the next corner, mostly 2nd/3rd gear, sometimes 4th. If I drove the Audi like this, I'd be getting ~15mpg. ~30mpg is possible if I drive like a Saint, but I think I'd be getting >40mpg if I drove the '2 with that much self control!