Can You Remove Power Steering

[shanklylfc]

This is probably a stupid noob question but is it possible or advisable to remove the power steering from the car? I ask because in my mk1 with no power steering, you really feel everything through the wheel, the slightest movement of the back stepping out and you feel it and can correct it. This is my first car with PS, and I just don't have the same confidence in the corners as with the mk1,or do you think its something I'll get used to.

[tigracat]

Well anything is possible, but sounds a bit extreme to remove the power steering on an already great handling car, maybe there are other issues that need investigating before going to such extremes, tyres, suspension, ect ect



                               Mike

[Mike68]

As Mike has said, worth checking the set up of the car, there are loads of mods that can stiffen the chasis too. As for power steering, I would think it could be removed but also this is something you'll get used to and also the roadster is not a mk1 and will feel different anyway.

[shanklylfc]

It does handle well, Its just in the mk1 you can feel through the wheel when its just on the limit and when to back off. the roadster feels like it could just go, (step out and spin) without warning, but like I said its my first experience of power steering and so maybe just a case of getting used to it . the thought arose though, because the PS light comes on if I just put the key in the ignition and start up, and I have no power steering , but If i turn the key until the dash light are on and wait for the PS light to go off before cranking the engine then the PS is ok. so I thought if its on its way out anyway do I really need to replace it, or remove altogether.

[Goeman]

You don't really have to remove the power steering. You just drain the power steering fluid out of the rack. That's what they do in the Max5 (MX5) racing series because none power racks are hard to find.

I wouldn't recommend doing that though. None power steering generally have quicker racks on them so it could be harder work steering than on a MK1 and it's an unknown and may feel horrible. I doubt that many people have done it.

Like others have said, try different avenues first like chassis braces or maybe something as simple as tyre choice.

[markiii]

i agree the mk1 rack has more feel, i measured up but the mk1 rack won't fit the mk3

you can bypass the power steering pump so it runs as a manual rack but the jury is out as to the long term safety implications

[Mike68]

The only problem I can think of without going into the mechanics and possible damage it may cause as I don't know, is the insurance company would jump on this if you ever needed to claim. Your chance of recovering your loss would probably be 0% as the car has not been maintained properly.

[shanklylfc]

Thanks for the reply's so far guys. Would draining the fluid feel the same as the pump failing to start problem I have? if so then its like a tank and you need arms like Popeye to turn into a bend. what are the long term safety implications markiii, I'm a total newb at these sort if things. you may be right on the set up thing, Ive got mismatched tyres on the car (front to back) when I bought it last month, but haven't changed them yet because I haven't made up my mind if I'm going to put new alloys on it yet.
edit
mike68 could you not declare this to insurance or think its just a no no..

[Goeman]

Would draining the fluid feel the same as the pump failing to start problem I have?

No. If the pump fails you have the resistance of the hydrolic fluid working against you making it very very difficult to steer.

[Mike68]

Thanks for the reply's so far guys. Would draining the fluid feel the same as the pump failing to start problem I have? if so then its like a tank and you need arms like Popeye to turn into a bend. what are the long term safety implications markiii, I'm a total newb at these sort if things. you may be right on the set up thing, Ive got mismatched tyres on the car (front to back) when I bought it last month, but haven't changed them yet because I haven't made up my mind if I'm going to put new alloys on it yet.
edit
mike68 could you not declare this to insurance or think its just a no no..

I would talk to them before you do anything and go by what they say, I would guess that they would not be happy with the new set up proposal.

[normanh]

Instant MOT failure? The same as a leaky hydraulic cylinder.


norman

[Mike68]

Not sure about that one as it's not actually leaking, if they check the levels then maybe a mot failure.

[Goeman]

Is it not like the spare wheel? Fail if it's bald put not a problem if it's not there. If you removed the pump and the lines, drained the fluid and plugged up the holes in the rack then it can't really be called broken can it?

Still wouldn't recommend doing this by the way.

[Tem]

Don't drain the fluid, it also acts as a lubricant.

Here's my take at removing the power steering.

[ChrisGB]

Don't drain the fluid, it also acts as a lubricant.

Here's my take at removing the power steering.

Do you get decent rewards in steering feel doing this? I have always preferred non assisted racks for optimum feel.

Chris

[shanklylfc]

What have you done there Tem? it looks like you've connected the in and outlet of the pump, through some sort of mini air filter to circulate the fluid, and like chrisGB said, do you get that extra feeling through the wheel that i am looking for? I would be very interested to know. think I'm going to drain the fluid in the next week or 2 before a trip to mr Ts to see how it feels, think I need a tiny bit of fluid to top-up anyway , and if I'm getting it I might as well try. better pop into an MOT centre and ask for some advise too.

[Tem]

Do you get decent rewards in steering feel doing this? I have always preferred non assisted racks for optimum feel.

That was my reason for doing it as well. The PS pump was still fine, so didn't remove it for breaking or anything.

Yes, I do like the steering better like this. It's heavier, just like you'd imagine, but I like it that way. It does give me a better feel than the PS ever did. I always thought it was too light and too "assisted". While it's great when parking, it really sucks when driving.  s:? :? s:?

Some have gone even further, dismantled the steering rack and removed some parts from within. Apparently that gives you even lighter steering feel.

[Tem]

What have you done there Tem? it looks like you've connected the in and outlet of the pump, through some sort of mini air filter to circulate the fluid

Pretty much so. The steering rack needs the fluid, cause it's a lubricant as well. But you cannot block the fluid movement, cause that would create extra resistance. When you turn the wheel, you are moving the fluid and if you block the fluid movement, you need extra power (from your muscles) to turn the rack, which probably isn't what you want. The fluid actually runs from one side to the other when you turn the wheel, it flows more than I thought.

I'm going to drain the fluid in the next week or 2 before a trip to mr Ts to see how it feels

If you do that, make sure the pump won't run, or it'll kill itself without fluid.  s8) s8)

[Tem]

One more thing about the steering feel. It felt too stiff with S03's, which are known for their hard sidewalls. And it felt very loose with some grocery better tyres with flexy sidewalls. With Hankook Z212 it feels just right. So the tyres also affect this a lot. Never noticed that big difference in steering wheel with different tyres when the PS was still on.

[ChrisGB]

One more thing about the steering feel. It felt too stiff with S03's, which are known for their hard sidewalls. And it felt very loose with some grocery better tyres with flexy sidewalls. With Hankook Z212 it feels just right. So the tyres also affect this a lot. Never noticed that big difference in steering wheel with different tyres when the PS was still on.

How are you liking the Hankooks? Just got rid of a set of them and have gone Toyo R888. Very stiff sidewalls and very sticky compound may not feel great without assisted steering.

Chris

[Tem]

Hankook Z212

How are you liking the Hankooks?

They are ok, not great, not bad. Pretty good for the price and enough for my everyday driving.  s8) s8)

Just got rid of a set of them and have gone Toyo R888. Very stiff sidewalls and very sticky compound may not feel great without assisted steering.

I have a set of R888's on stock wheels for trackdays as well, I got the medium compound though.

[ChrisGB]

Yeah, I run the GG medium too. Works well on road as long as it is not too wet. How are they with the unassisted steering?
Chris

[Tem]

Yeah, I run the GG medium too. Works well on road as long as it is not too wet. How are they with the unassisted steering?

I also thought about running them on streets, maybe I will do that too. But sometimes it does get rainy over here, so can't really have them as my only tyres. I also need to drive triple digit miles to tracks and back, so wouldn't want to wear out the softer compound getting to the tracks.  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

Don't know yet, I just got them and haven't driven on them yet. I'll let you know in a month or two.

[shanklylfc]

What have you done there Tem? it looks like you've connected the in and outlet of the pump, through some sort of mini air filter to circulate the fluid

Pretty much so. The steering rack needs the fluid, cause it's a lubricant as well. But you cannot block the fluid movement, cause that would create extra resistance. When you turn the wheel, you are moving the fluid and if you block the fluid movement, you need extra power (from your muscles) to turn the rack, which probably isn't what you want. The fluid actually runs from one side to the other when you turn the wheel, it flows more than I thought.

I'm going to drain the fluid in the next week or 2 before a trip to mr Ts to see how it feels

If you do that, make sure the pump won't run, or it'll kill itself without fluid.  s8) s8)

Thanks for all the advice Tem especially about disconnecting the pump before draining, I wouldn't have thought about that and killed it off  s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:

[2 of the left]

Drove a Mk2 for 17 years no PAS - was good for feeling the road but the backend spun out once on a roundabout (oil slick on road) A43 approaching M40 and yeh "arms like Popeye" - Stick with PAS you will get used to it!!