Dans Turbo Build

[shnazzle]

Good question. Did Greg mention the GT2554R being too small?
It seems that, if anything, you've left power on the table, so it should be fine. Whereas the SP240 turbo was being worked far too hard so he basically said it was too small for the amount of boost and rpm

[dan944]

I forgot to get the comparison of mine and helens plots.
Basically as it got to about 5krpm the sp240 tailed of and dropped in power.
The gt2554R seems powerful enough for near 300hp. The spool is great and seems to be in a good efficiency. I've played with a car with the gt2860r turbo. It's a lot bigger and is more punchy I feel. But not as natural feeling as the 2554.

[shnazzle]

Good answer.
I think the long/short of it is that the 2554 is the best matched turbo for sub-300 with a stock-like feel

The 2560 would arguably be a bit of no-man's land between 2554 and 2860. The only difference being that the 2560 may be more sympathetic to your gearbox

[dan944]

Good answer.
I think the long/short of it is that the 2554 is the best matched turbo for sub-300 with a stock-like feel

The 2560 would arguably be a bit of no-man's land between 2554 and 2860. The only difference being that the 2560 may be more sympathetic to your gearbox

I completely agree 2554 drives very naturally. I don't think I'd want to ruin that.

[1979scotte]

So, just purchased my Garrett GT2554...

I will produce as concise a list as possible for those wanting to complete a turbo build.

watch this space!

What are the options once you've settled on GT25-spec turbo?

I assume a GT2554R is plenty for our engines? No need to go GT2560R or indeed the G25-550? (seems like more than double the price and overkill)

Were there any other turbo's you were considering?

The GT2554R is the smallest ball bearing turbo Garrett sell and therefore spools the quickest.
Unless you want to forge your engine then it delivers plenty of poke as Dan's car shows on only 8psi.

Other options are 2860RS GTX28** or the Borg Warner EFR 6258.
All much more costly and you won't be able to use them to their max without a forged engine and transmission upgrade.

[BahnStormer]

The GT2554R is the smallest ball bearing turbo Garrett sell and therefore spools the quickest.
Unless you want to forge your engine then it delivers plenty of poke as Dan's car shows on only 8psi.

Other options are 2860RS GTX28** or the Borg Warner EFR 6258.
All much more costly and you won't be able to use them to their max without a forged engine and transmission upgrade.

Thanks - I was pretty sure that was the case - the G25 sounds interesting - supposed to spool even faster, but it is 2.5x more expensive and I think the GT2554R sounds like the optimum point for a top quality turbo, minimal lag and as much power as the stock internals / transmission can handle...

[dan944]

The GT2554R is the smallest ball bearing turbo Garrett sell and therefore spools the quickest.
Unless you want to forge your engine then it delivers plenty of poke as Dan's car shows on only 8psi.

Other options are 2860RS GTX28** or the Borg Warner EFR 6258.
All much more costly and you won't be able to use them to their max without a forged engine and transmission upgrade.

Thanks - I was pretty sure that was the case - the G25 sounds interesting - supposed to spool even faster, but it is 2.5x more expensive and I think the GT2554R sounds like the optimum point for a top quality turbo, minimal lag and as much power as the stock internals / transmission can handle...

And if you get it in with Greg and his wizard fingers then you'll be seeing ridiculous figures from very little boost.

I think I worked it out as 13bhp per psi of boost.

[Nvy]

The GT2554R is the smallest ball bearing turbo Garrett sell and therefore spools the quickest.
Unless you want to forge your engine then it delivers plenty of poke as Dan's car shows on only 8psi.

Other options are 2860RS GTX28** or the Borg Warner EFR 6258.
All much more costly and you won't be able to use them to their max without a forged engine and transmission upgrade.

Thanks - I was pretty sure that was the case - the G25 sounds interesting - supposed to spool even faster, but it is 2.5x more expensive and I think the GT2554R sounds like the optimum point for a top quality turbo, minimal lag and as much power as the stock internals / transmission can handle...

Id guess that g25 will make the air quite hot due to the small frame, for my build im going 6758 with.64 ar turbine housing. The 2863 and 2867 are quite nice options too but i love the idea of EFR and 6758 at 1400 dollars would be my choice.

[mikek]

How much power do you guys need? Dan already needs wipe clean seats from 8psi......

[BahnStormer]

How much power do you guys need? Dan already needs wipe clean seats from 8psi......

I'm not after any more than you've got  I'm after nice progressive torque from low revs and ~220whp max!

Did Greg mention the GT2554R being too small?

Absolutely not... from everything I've seen, it is THE one to go for unless you're looking at a fully built engine, new gearbox, etc.... I just want to ask these questions now, while there's the right group of enthusiasts following your thread

I'm only aiming for ~220whp* (max) as I'm not doing built engine/new gearbox, so it sounds like a well setup GT2554R will get me into the right ballpark with the least lag... I think the usable boost from lower rpm (GT2554R) will be more real world-usable than than the dyno bragging rights of whatever you could theoretically get with a GT2560R, let alone GT2860R....

*I'm more interested in seeing the breadth and shape of the torque curve than the peak point on the power curve....  dyno peak power numbers can be fun to aim for, but a dyno should be a tool for tuning the whole power band, not the end game: the quant analyst in me is screaming for people to stop quoting peak power and found a way of expressing the engine's power in terms of "area under the curve X smoothness of delivery". It's very doable, but nobody would agree on a standard, so I won't even start. Essentially for the amount of time I spend at peak power rpm (e.g. 6300rpm*), it's fairly meaningless to me if it makes peak power of 400bhp at that point on a dyno if it makes it only at that point, I tend to drive my cars on roads more than dyno's

rant over 

*and yes - I know 2zz's make a large chunk of their power from something like 6500-8500rpm, which makes them very fast and a great option IF you're going to drive them in that range the whole time (i.e. a track), but realistically, I'm not... Rotrex would be nice, but it's not a well trodden path and very expensive, hence the turbo options being explored.

[dan944]

I never thought of viewing it as area under the curve tbh. That would be a true test power!!  We use it a lot in engineering and it's the only way to get true readings in a lot of cases!! Why is this not more used!

[monsi]

When I was looking all the information and advice I could find said that the Gt2554r was the perfect match for the standard engine.  The GT2560R is almost the same turbo (slightly different compressor wheel) which would give more future proofing if you wanted to go forged. The spool difference shouldn't be too much, and this seems to have been the turbo of choice up to now.

I've only used the GT2554R so can't comment on others but the way the power is delivered is very smooth, no noticeable lag just like having a larger engine.

The EFR range look fantastic but I think even the smallest is going to be to big for a  1zz...

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[dan944]

When I was looking all the information and advice I could find said that the Gt2554r was the perfect match for the standard engine.  The GT2560R is almost the same turbo (slightly different compressor wheel) which would give more future proofing if you wanted to go forged. The spool difference shouldn't be too much, and this seems to have been the turbo of choice up to now.

I've only used the GT2554R so can't comment on others but the way the power is delivered is very smooth, no noticeable lag just like having a larger engine.

The EFR range look fantastic but I think even the smallest is going to be to big for a  1zz...

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Without spilling the beans too much. I may or may not have one setup with a gt2860.

It's good but punchy. It's definitely aimed at the more power hungry, big it's a big fat whack of everything higher up the Rev range.

[mikek]

@BahnStormer

The beauty of Greg's tuning was he didn't look at the peak power untill he had mapped a perfect linear curve (if there is such a thing)

With my car he did this twice, once for each cam. He then overlapped them to set the lift point. Only on the last run did he even bother trying to get any more out of the top end.

He was most pleased with the distance he put between my first run curve and my final run curve between 3000rpm and 6000rpm. I think this is what you are talking about "under the curve"

[dan944]

@BahnStormer

The beauty of Greg's tuning was he didn't look at the peak power untill he had mapped a perfect linear curve (if there is such a thing)

With my car he did this twice, once for each cam. He then overlapped them to set the lift point. Only on the last run did he even bother trying to get any more out of the top end.

He was most pleased with the distance he put between my first run curve and my final run curve between 3000rpm and 6000rpm. I think this is what you are talking about "under the curve"

I noticed that as well. He was always fiddling it to get it linear.

Random question but did you have a hump in both your torque and hp around 4.7krpm @mikek ?

[mikek]

Nope. It's such a smooth curve. He spent ages on it. You don't feel it go into lift at all now. The car is so much better through the mid range and it just feels like it will go on for ever at the top end. I can't believe the difference that little black box of electronics has made.

[dan944]

@BahnStormer

The beauty of Greg's tuning was he didn't look at the peak power untill he had mapped a perfect linear curve (if there is such a thing)

With my car he did this twice, once for each cam. He then overlapped them to set the lift point. Only on the last run did he even bother trying to get any more out of the top end.

He was most pleased with the distance he put between my first run curve and my final run curve between 3000rpm and 6000rpm. I think this is what you are talking about "under the curve"

I noticed that as well. He was always fiddling it to get it linear.

Random question but did you have a hump in both your torque and hp around 4.7krpm @mikek ?

[dan944]

Nope. It's such a smooth curve. He spent ages on it. You don't feel it go into lift at all now. The car is so much better through the mid range and it just feels like it will go on for ever at the top end. I can't believe the difference that little black box of electronics has made.

Odd, must be a 1zz characteristic then. Lol. It can be seen on my dyno plot but helens also had it.
Have you put up a picture of your dyno?

[shnazzle]

2zz doesnt have the characteristic Dan. Instead 2zz has the torque dip at about 5k rpm. But that is eradicated with Stg2 cams and standalone

Nope. It's such a smooth curve. He spent ages on it. You don't feel it go into lift at all now. The car is so much better through the mid range and it just feels like it will go on for ever at the top end. I can't believe the difference that little black box of electronics has made.

Odd, must be a 1zz characteristic then. Lol. It can be seen on my dyno plot but helens also had it.
Have you put up a picture of your dyno?

[dan944]

2zz doesnt have the characteristic Dan. Instead 2zz has the torque dip at about 5k rpm. But that is eradicated with Stg2 cams and standalone

Nope. It's such a smooth curve. He spent ages on it. You don't feel it go into lift at all now. The car is so much better through the mid range and it just feels like it will go on for ever at the top end. I can't believe the difference that little black box of electronics has made.

Odd, must be a 1zz characteristic then. Lol. It can be seen on my dyno plot but helens also had it.
Have you put up a picture of your dyno?

Well I know that now haha

[monsi]

I haven't got that dip on mine... Is your standalone ECU controlling the vvt?

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[mikek]

I haven't got any pictures/graphs. Day got to be very long and I forgot to ask before I left. They are stored on the system though. Will pick them up next time!!

[dan944]

I haven't got that dip on mine... Is your standalone ECU controlling the vvt?

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Hump not dip. Lol.
Yes. I believe he's doing voodoo stuff with it.

[dan944]

I haven't got any pictures/graphs. Day got to be very long and I forgot to ask before I left. They are stored on the system though. Will pick them up next time!!

I mean...did it even happen?

[monsi]

Sorry, no hump either!

If it's not the vvt then I guess it must be something to do with the pipework that's different on mine.... Maybe

I haven't got that dip on mine... Is your standalone ECU controlling the vvt?

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Hump not dip. Lol.
Yes. I believe he's doing voodoo stuff with it.

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