emissions

[shnazzle]

Jack the black just failed emissions on idle
Stuck IACV.
Just add it to the list ways to fail emissions

Unlucky!!! By coincidence I was reading up on iacv yesterday as I was wondering if that could affect the emissions, you've just given me the answer. What were your readings and how have you diagnosed the faulty iacv ? If mine struggles on the emissions this year this is next on my checklist

It's not so much faulty and poorly adjusted. It was idling at about 1400rpm when warm. So that's obviously far too high. So when they do the idle and emissions test they were obviously getting CO readings waaaayyy above the norm.

The other emissions tests all passed.

The IACV has an actuator on the outside. It's held by two t20 security torx bits. If you loosen those, the actuator swivels a bit. Depending on how you swivel it, it adjusts opening size. So, have it swivelled too far one way and it can make the opening too big, causing permanent high idle.
A remnant from when I last cleaned the IACV and TB

[davethediscoman]

New sensor fitted let's hope it passes emissions next week.

[BahnStormer]

New sensor fitted let's hope it passes emissions next week.

hey what are you doing on my thread

Seriously though, good luck, I'm stressing about mine - I really need to get it back on the road!!


In reply to CallTheMidlife....

... have you tried Opie oils for the sensors? Around £53 last time...

You're right, £53.80 AND they do free delivery if you're buying more than £60-worth (i.e. two of them or even just one sensor + an O2 sensor socket)
https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-86057-denso-direct-fit-lambda-sensor-dox-0204-oxygen-o2-genuine-oe-part.aspx

The code you mentioned is not valid for lambda sensors and I didn't see any way to easily ask for a MR2ROC, but even their regular price, it would have saved me £9 + delivery (another £4-£8)... too late for me though

[Call the midlife!]

New sensor fitted let's hope it passes emissions next week.

hey what are you doing on my thread

Seriously though, good luck, I'm stressing about mine - I really need to get it back on the road!!


In reply to CallTheMidlife....

... have you tried Opie oils for the sensors? Around £53 last time...

You're right, £53.80 AND they do free delivery if you're buying more than £60-worth (i.e. two of them or even just one sensor + an O2 sensor socket)
https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-86057-denso-direct-fit-lambda-sensor-dox-0204-oxygen-o2-genuine-oe-part.aspx

The code you mentioned is not valid for lambda sensors and I didn't see any way to easily ask for a MR2ROC, but even their regular price, it would have saved me £9 + delivery (another £4-£8)... too late for me though

Aah, bugger, sorry about that. To be honest I couldn't see anywhere to apply the ROC discount either so I replied to my order confirmation email with a cheeky ask!
Was worth it for 3 bottles of gearbox fluid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wotugonado]

Jack the black just failed emissions on idle
Stuck IACV.
Just add it to the list ways to fail emissions

Unlucky!!! By coincidence I was reading up on iacv yesterday as I was wondering if that could affect the emissions, you've just given me the answer. What were your readings and how have you diagnosed the faulty iacv ? If mine struggles on the emissions this year this is next on my checklist

It's not so much faulty and poorly adjusted. It was idling at about 1400rpm when warm. So that's obviously far too high. So when they do the idle and emissions test they were obviously getting CO readings waaaayyy above the norm.

The other emissions tests all passed.

The IACV has an actuator on the outside. It's held by two t20 security torx bits. If you loosen those, the actuator swivels a bit. Depending on how you swivel it, it adjusts opening size. So, have it swivelled too far one way and it can make the opening too big, causing permanent high idle.
A remnant from when I last cleaned the IACV and TB

Ah ok. Food for thought then. Is it a big job to get throttle body off ?
Is there a how too on this?

[shnazzle]

Jack the black just failed emissions on idle
Stuck IACV.
Just add it to the list ways to fail emissions

Unlucky!!! By coincidence I was reading up on iacv yesterday as I was wondering if that could affect the emissions, you've just given me the answer. What were your readings and how have you diagnosed the faulty iacv ? If mine struggles on the emissions this year this is next on my checklist

It's not so much faulty and poorly adjusted. It was idling at about 1400rpm when warm. So that's obviously far too high. So when they do the idle and emissions test they were obviously getting CO readings waaaayyy above the norm.

The other emissions tests all passed.

The IACV has an actuator on the outside. It's held by two t20 security torx bits. If you loosen those, the actuator swivels a bit. Depending on how you swivel it, it adjusts opening size. So, have it swivelled too far one way and it can make the opening too big, causing permanent high idle.
A remnant from when I last cleaned the IACV and TB

Ah ok. Food for thought then. Is it a big job to get throttle body off ?
Is there a how too on this?

You know... I was putting it back on and then I was wondering whether I had done a how-to.
Turns out I haven't... But I can dream the process by now.

It's fiddly. Certainly not hard. I'll write something up and see if I can re-use pictures from others

[Call the midlife!]

Jack the black just failed emissions on idle
Stuck IACV.
Just add it to the list ways to fail emissions

Unlucky!!! By coincidence I was reading up on iacv yesterday as I was wondering if that could affect the emissions, you've just given me the answer. What were your readings and how have you diagnosed the faulty iacv ? If mine struggles on the emissions this year this is next on my checklist

It's not so much faulty and poorly adjusted. It was idling at about 1400rpm when warm. So that's obviously far too high. So when they do the idle and emissions test they were obviously getting CO readings waaaayyy above the norm.

The other emissions tests all passed.

The IACV has an actuator on the outside. It's held by two t20 security torx bits. If you loosen those, the actuator swivels a bit. Depending on how you swivel it, it adjusts opening size. So, have it swivelled too far one way and it can make the opening too big, causing permanent high idle.
A remnant from when I last cleaned the IACV and TB

Ah ok. Food for thought then. Is it a big job to get throttle body off ?
Is there a how too on this?

You know... I was putting it back on and then I was wondering whether I had done a how-to.
Turns out I haven't... But I can dream the process by now.

It's fiddly. Certainly not hard. I'll write something up and see if I can re-use pictures from others

You did a version on or around the 6th January this year, I know because I screen shotted the step by step but it's cleaning the IAV without removing it from the throttle body. So that bits sort of covered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wotugonado]

I should have piped up earlier, sorry.
Be great if you could do a how too, seems like a worthwhile maintenance job for most of us on our old/high mileage cars

[BahnStormer]

I should have piped up earlier, sorry.
Be great if you could do a how too, seems like a worthwhile maintenance job for most of us on our old/high mileage cars

just to be clear, in case mine is suffering from this too: the throttle body issue is where the idle doesn't drop after the engine start to warm up? hopefully this is one I'm not going to be lumped with... since mine a July '07 car that has only just gone through 60k... and although the idle starts pretty high (just over 1400rpm), but drops significantly after a few minutes...

btw - who is well versed in restoring the EML that has been tampered with on mine? Apparently "only a 5min job", but I'd gladly drive an hour* or so to get somebody who has done this before to have a fiddle, rather than me do it: I'm guessing people don't write how-to's on how to remove the card/blue-tack, since that would pretty much be the same as how you should add it in the first place?

*gives me a good excuse to rag it around early on a weekend morning across Surrey/Sussex/Hampshire... all are easily accessible from where I am in NW Surrey/SW London.

[shnazzle]

This link might help you:
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=61863.0

Removing the dash truly is a job for anybody. It seems very daunting but it isn't.

Lower steering wheel, pull off binnacle, undo 3 obvious screw and unplug 3 plugs. With the help of a small flat screwdriver. The rest is obvious.

If your revs are about 1200 or so at cold and then drop to 750ish when warm, you're all good

[BahnStormer]

This link might help you:
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=61863.0

Removing the dash truly is a job for anybody. It seems very daunting but it isn't.

Lower steering wheel, pull off binnacle, undo 3 obvious screw and unplug 3 plugs. With the help of a small flat screwdriver. The rest is obvious.

If your revs are about 1200 or so at cold and then drop to 750ish when warm, you're all good

Dash done: there was a black glue poured into the hole... right PITA to extract, but it's done! Are car dealerships honestly allowed to do this? I bought mine trade, so surely they have a duty to not knowingly hide faults - or is this just going to be a case of me not being able to prove that it was them - even though the timing is more than coincidental that they had bought the car and several months later got it to pass an MOT (when the EML light must have been on and the lambda sensors failing).... they're getting a 1-star review on every site I can find. I've got a lot of positive feedback on my google reviews, so they get bumped to the top .... either they knowing did this or incompetently didn't check the car at all and sold it on regardless.

Kinda my own fault for not spotting that the light NEVER came one, even in the first couple of months - that said - Mr T also did a "FULL SERVICE" - and I specifically asked for the "big one, incl cam chain check, etc", specifically to catch any such errors while the car was still going to be repaired by the 3rd party dealers that sold it to me (it came with a 3 month warranty).



light comes on now.... and off again... but more about that in a second...

[BahnStormer]

edit: cancelling the Bosch/Denso from GSF and I'll just order the Denso ones from sparkplugs.co.uk for delivery next week.

(Likes) Ardent and Carolyn like this

Did I mention I'm REALLY impatient?!? (I feel kinda bad.... despite all the support and advice to wait for the Denso, I realised that if did a 90min round-trip, I could go past 2x GSF's that had the parts I needed and get it all done this weekend and MOT'd on Tuesday)

Bish... Bash.... Bosch..... job done.

Old ones on the right, new one on the left:



The faults that were re-appearing immediately yesterday are now completely gone. I took it for a run around the block and checked again. Definitely gone. I'll give it a good run on Tuesday morning and re-test @ the MOT station. Will it need a long run to clear out the cat? Or is the cat stuffed after running about 6000 miles VERY rich with extra high HC+CO?

[wotugonado]

First off well done on sorting it, secondly that black glue looks suspiciously like a black gasket sealant my mechanic uses for exhausts. I haven't personally seen it on sale to the public, if it is a trade only item it would really narrow down the suspects

[BahnStormer]

First off well done on sorting it, secondly that black glue looks suspiciously like a black gasket sealant my mechanic uses for exhausts. I haven't personally seen it on sale to the public, if it is a trade only item it would really narrow down the suspects

it does "look" heat resistant... it's like a black silicon sealant, but with quite a fibrous centre that was breaking up as I was trying to pull it out.... wot T0553R5.... silicon sealant would have done the (sneaky) job and been easier to remove. It honestly too me 3x longer to remove that (~30mins) that it took to swap the two O2 sensors (<10mins).... albeit those cost £120 more, but this sort of thing really infuriates me as I'm quite a noobie and I was able to fix the source of the problem fairly easily and they could have done the same with cheap parts (~£50 for 2x retail priced sensors, albeit nasty buget ones) rather than resorting to sabotage to hide the fault.

[BahnStormer]

Total outlay:
£10 EMD327 OBD2 bluetooth reader (more expensive one with Amazon next day delivery)*
£3 Torque Pro @ Android Play Store
£7.50 22m sensor socket(more expensive one with Amazon next day delivery)*
£124 2x Bosch Lambda sensors (DOX-0204 equivalents)*
£25 on petrol* - nearly 100miles driven (in the snotwagon, since the '2 has a failed MOT and there's ANPR camera's everywhere around me.... 25mpg is an effort of will!)
TOTAL@ ~£170

*reference earlier "impatience comment", if I was willing to settle for less and wait days/weeks, that could have been budget EML327 (£2), Torque Lite (£0), 22mm Sensor socket (£5), 2xDenso sensors (£108) and no driving (OpieOils = free delivery).... £115 total.

Still.... not bad, considering Mr-T was going to charge me £150 for the initial investigation and then apparently £210 per sensor!! (£570)

Proof will be in the MOT on Tuesday... might still need a new cat

[1979scotte]

Well done you for sorting it.

3 lessons here.
1. You can do most things yourself with perseverance and a helpful club.
2. Dont go to Mr.T or any main stealer.
3. Don't trust secondhand car dealers.

[wotugonado]

Well it points to a dodgy mot tester or dodgy car dealer. If the mot tester fudged the emissions and ignored the eml that'll get Em in the shit if reported, if the dealer covered it up before or after mot then that's shows they deliberately mislead the customer.
The problem is, it's always a drawn out process to get anything done about anything in this country.

[LeoD]

Result!  Fair play

[BahnStormer]

Well it points to a dodgy mot tester or dodgy car dealer. If the mot tester fudged the emissions and ignored the eml that'll get Em in the poopoo if reported, if the dealer covered it up before or after mot then that's shows they deliberately mislead the customer.
The problem is, it's always a drawn out process to get anything done about anything in this country.

My money is on both: I doubt a car dealer would have ignored the EML light and they had the car for 6 months before the MOT test, so they knew exactly what they were doing when that "passed"....

[BahnStormer]

Well done you for sorting it.

Thanks! And thanks again for all the help, fingers crossed for Tuesday! Will be nice to see how much a VERY high fail improves by just with the O2 sensors sorted...

3 lessons here.
1. You can do most things yourself with perseverance and a helpful club.
2. Dont go to Mr.T or any main stealer.
3. Don't trust secondhand car dealers.

#1 - agreed: dash access was VERY easy compared to my old Golf/Audi!!!! and the O2 sensors were a 10min swap once I had the right information (OBC2), advice (you guys and girls) and tools (22mm grooved socket).
#2 - in my defence, I knew I'd pay over the odds, but I took it to them SPECIFICALLY for any Toyota-specific issue and proper diags that should be carried out for a large interval service. They dropped the ball massively!
#3 - it's a cliché, they're utter scum, I know.... I'm kicking myself more than angry at them as I never would have let that get past me if it was a private sale AND I've taken friends to buy dozens of cars in the past and spotted this several times... but completely missed it on my own purchase - I think I had one roof-down blast around some nice country roads and has hooked...

[Carolyn]

Dave and BahnStormer:

I'm not big on spending other peoples' money but..

You both might want to run some Cataclean though your cars before retest?

[BahnStormer]

You both might want to run some Cataclean though your cars before retest?

Yep. On that already. I put two in. Only problem is that they recommend one bottle every 15 litres and I had a full tank, so I'm out to get another one now. Just trying to work out how much of a run it needs before a retest.

[BahnStormer]

Okay mine had three error codes, looks like it is pointing at the 2x manifold O2 sensors...

"P0135-Powertrain: O2 Sensor Heater Circuit (Bank 1 Sensor 1)"
"P0142-Powertrain: O2 Sensor Heater Circuit (Bank 1 Sensor 2)"
"P0171-Powertrain: System too Lean (Bank 1)"

I cleared the error and started the engine and I got one of them* back immediately... guessing only a matter of time before the other one comes through too?

*"P0135-Powertrain: O2 Sensor Heater Circuit (Bank 1 Sensor 1)"

No sign of the second error (yet), but I'm guessing it's only a matter of time?

Oops.... looks like "Bank 1 Sensor 2" is the lower sensor as per Carolyn's note... and I have just replaced the top two.... entirely my own fault for not reading Carolyn's instructions!!

Bank 1  sensor 1 is towards the pulley end of the engine in the manifold.

Bank 2  sensor 1  is the other sensor in the manifold.

Bank 1  sensor 2 is just after the main cat and has a longer wire.

I just took the car for a run: Now I'm getting the "bank 1 sensor 2" error again... kicking myself for but at least I had a working EML to let me know it was happening... and the Bluetooth OBD2 adapter to work out what the EML light was for... DOX0206 on order... penetrating spray applied... sensor socket on standby.... part due for delivery on Weds/Thurs.

[paulj]

I think bank 1 sensor 2 only detects at running temperature and with sustained 2000rpm, i had one which would stay quiet for days on end and then EML again after a longer faster drive.

[BahnStormer]

I think bank 1 sensor 2 only detects at running temperature and with sustained 2000rpm, i had one which would stay quiet for days on end and then EML again after a longer faster drive.

Makes sense, this was the first proper run, previously I'd just idled around the block. Today was a proper B road blast.  Not sure when it came on as the roof was down and I was very focused on the road and revs... I was trying to get some heat through the engine+exhaust system to let the Cataclean do it's work and I was having a little heel'n'toe practice session at the same time, so suffice to say revs were "sustained over 2000rpm" for quite a while...