An alternative size often overlooked for the FL 16" rear is 205/45-16, which seems to be a pretty common size.  They will be the same width as the earlier 15" rear and work fine.

Quote from: Zens on June 10, 2023, 08:48Hmm, I had taken a quick look, the moment I found out about them and it seems it was available in 185/55/15 and 215/45/16. But it was a very quick look at a single retailer online configurator, as at this point I'm basically looking for excuses not to buy either the Michelin or the Yoko AD08RS.

But please do tell about the strange questions I've been asking. If I'm ware of what is strange I might learn from it. I'm always on the lookout for learning opportunities.

The 'strange question' was with regard to a tyre that you can't get in the rights sizes....I looked up a Pirelli listing.  If you have one in Austrian or German that says different....

Iain on here likes his Michelin PS3.  I went by Tyre Tests in choosing.  The Michelin is an old tyre, & there was some crossover in time with the Hankook K125 in tests. The Hankook was rated better, in some tests finished rated 1st. And here anyway, it's cheaper than the Yoko & the PS3.

About older and newer designs it is worth noting that our MR2 is an older car which off factory came with quite stiff, nowadays very stiff, sidewalls. Imo the car benefits from stiffer sideall tyres.

Quote from: Petrus on June 11, 2023, 12:20About older and newer designs it is worth noting that our MR2 is an older car which off factory came with quite stiff, nowadays very stiff, sidewalls. Imo the car benefits from stiffer sideall tyres.

 Many of these tire reviews makes one tire better for certain attributes except one which is being a responsive tire with feel.
 I use to despise Michelin tires because they are overpriced and do not test very well compared to other in terms of grip as they are equal or less then. 
 Numbers are important for racing I suppose to get whatever advantage to reduce lap times but for the street I want a responsive tire with lots of feel. 
I found the budget performance tires lack that and that is what you pay for with a top tier brand of tire particularly the stiff responsive ride quality.
 The tires I have now are stiff and are compared to Michelins for its responsive handling. More than offset, tire sizes and other things, the tires are number one when it comes to fun to drive.

Quote from: Dev on June 11, 2023, 15:16the tires are number one when it comes to fun to drive.

They are the contact with the road.
The construction of the thread band and the sidewalls are the begin and end all of the feed back and responsiveness.
The rubber compound same for the traction available.

More modern cars have differnet geometry and suspensions which go well with larger diameter wheels and lower, more flexibel sidewalls which have been developed in cooperation.

Ditto modern tyres by coïncidence available in sizes suiteable for ours do not befit it.

What we want is basically a two decades old construction with a modern but none too eco rubber compound. Many modern compounds are compromised for spirited use because they need to be more economic and more fuel efficient.

The tread profile design is also a tricky subject because the noise the tyres prodruce has become higher on the priorities list, compromising agaín traction.

Moral being AGAÏN that the marketing (and sadly motoring press, incl. social media, too) must be read with care and understanding of modern requirements.

Quote from: Petrus on June 11, 2023, 15:34They are the contact with the road.
The construction of the thread band and the sidewalls are the begin and end all of the feed back and responsiveness.
The rubber compound same for the traction available.

More modern cars have differnet geometry and suspensions which go well with larger diameter wheels and lower, more flexibel sidewalls which have been developed in cooperation.

Ditto modern tyres by coïncidence available in sizes suiteable for ours do not befit it.

What we want is basically a two decades old construction with a modern but none too eco rubber compound. Many modern compounds are compromised for spirited use because they need to be more economic and more fuel efficient.

The tread profile design is also a tricky subject because the noise the tyres prodruce has become higher on the priorities list, compromising agaín traction.

Moral being AGAÏN that the marketing (and sadly motoring press, incl. social media, too) must be read with care and understanding of modern requirements.

 Yes exactly. We have to compromise for other peoples comfort for the big wheel look for modern cars.
 I remember a time when those that bought 17 and 18 inch wheels were known for poor road comfort so I think they solved that problem with soft tires and probably saved money in the process. It is said that run flat tires are very stiff and are preferred for their feel even though they weigh more.
 Some of the newer performance tires start at 18" wheel sizes these days and no longer make sizes for 17" and down. Times have changed where we have been relegated to limited availability. 






 

Quote from: Dev on June 11, 2023, 15:46Times have changed where we have been relegated to limited availability. 

Our car (and it´s bretheren from othere brands) was already a niche product when it came out thus the few tyres which áre availeble are often intended for módern compact cars which are significantly heavierthan our little spiders ánd are expected to silently and economically run for a gazillion kms.

Quote from: Petrus on June 10, 2023, 10:09Why? Earlier this week I had some fun putting the hammer down in the rain here. The yearly inspection means I have a ceteris paribus befor & after & back agian and this year it was with proper rain. The AD08RS is súch a predictable tyre with for a summer tyre surprising wet grip. Imo it is thé best compromise for this car, in the correct size and at a reasonable (álmost ore Covid) price.

Maybe it came out wrong. What I meant is, at this point I have pretty much decided to buy either the Yoko or the Michelin. So I'm not really looking to deep into other options. So when I found out about the Pirelli, I looked into it real quick. Basically just to see how it compares in price and if anybody has experience with it. But if no other sway me away, it will be either the Yoko or Michelin.

As of note, I have zero interest if the tyre is good for winter or on the wet. Car will never be used in winter and if it's wet, the car stays at home. So I'm basically looking for great good weather street tyres. That work well on the dry and above 10 degrees Celsius.

So basically best dry weather tyres for the road, which can also do well on the track a few times a year.

Quote from: Beachbum957 on June 10, 2023, 11:18An alternative size often overlooked for the FL 16" rear is 205/45-16, which seems to be a pretty common size.  They will be the same width as the earlier 15" rear and work fine.

I also saw many going for 225/45/16. And even 225/50/16. Any experience with these sizes on the FL wheels?

Quote from: Gaz mr-s on June 11, 2023, 11:08The 'strange question' was with regard to a tyre that you can't get in the rights sizes....I looked up a Pirelli listing.  If you have one in Austrian or German that says different....

Iain on here likes his Michelin PS3.  I went by Tyre Tests in choosing.  The Michelin is an old tyre, & there was some crossover in time with the Hankook K125 in tests. The Hankook was rated better, in some tests finished rated 1st. And here anyway, it's cheaper than the Yoko & the PS3.

Ok, but that would be just one strange question. I aksed because you say I continue to come up with strange questions. Which would mean there were more.

How stiff is the K125 side walls compared to the AD08RS?

Quote from: Petrus on June 11, 2023, 12:20About older and newer designs it is worth noting that our MR2 is an older car which off factory came with quite stiff, nowadays very stiff, sidewalls. Imo the car benefits from stiffer sideall tyres.

Yeah, this is what I was thinking as well. I brought it up earlier on the thread. Maybe older designs are more desiged for the cars of the time. Like our cars.

Quote from: Dev on June 11, 2023, 15:16Many of these tire reviews makes one tire better for certain attributes except one which is being a responsive tire with feel.
 I use to despise Michelin tires because they are overpriced and do not test very well compared to other in terms of grip as they are equal or less then. 
 Numbers are important for racing I suppose to get whatever advantage to reduce lap times but for the street I want a responsive tire with lots of feel. 
I found the budget performance tires lack that and that is what you pay for with a top tier brand of tire particularly the stiff responsive ride quality.
 The tires I have now are stiff and are compared to Michelins for its responsive handling. More than offset, tire sizes and other things, the tires are number one when it comes to fun to drive.

What tyres are you running? Sorry if you already mentioned it. But I only remember you run 17" OZ Ultraleggeras.

Quote from: Petrus on June 11, 2023, 15:52Our car (and it´s bretheren from othere brands) was already a niche product when it came out thus the few tyres which áre availeble are often intended for módern compact cars which are significantly heavierthan our little spiders ánd are expected to silently and economically run for a gazillion kms.

But how do the Elise S1 guys do? The sizes are almost identical right? They are all on the Yokos, PS3, K125 etc too I guess?

Quote from: Zens on June 11, 2023, 21:25Ok, but that would be just one strange question. I aksed because you say I continue to come up with strange questions. Which would mean there were more.

How stiff is the K125 side walls compared to the AD08RS?

I'm not going to read through 6 pages, - I just thought your thinking was a bit strange, - maybe only once.

I don't know the answer re sidewall stiffness, - I'd guess the Yoko probably.

Tyre manufacturers I'm sure would have some criteria for making tyres with varying degrees of sidewall stiffness, but I've not seen reference to this feature in any specification, review or advertising.
I do remember cross ply tyres when they were the norm and the first tyres I recall that demonstrated the difference between cross ply and radial ply tyres were Michelin that I had fitted to my Beetle in the '60's.
In comparison the radials looked as though they were under inflated due to the more flexible side walls

To offer an alternative suggestion to the PFL wheels, I recently bought a set of motegi racing mr146 wheels in 15x8 - et35 front and et28 rear. Fitment is good and I run 205/50 front, 225/45 rear. They're light, imo look good and give me good support for wider rubber.

Quote from: Joesson on June 11, 2023, 22:41I do remember cross ply tyres when they were the norm and the first tyres I recall that demonstrated the difference between cross ply and radial ply tyres were Michelin

Oh mán. When I was in autotechnical engineering uni this was still a big thing. Soon got ´complicated´ developments in new synthetic materials. As I started racing it remained a big thing for me basically till today. During áll of that time one red thread were sidecars and .. now thát makes both cars and motorcycles look simple    Quick and dirty the traditional ones need crossply with a car type flat thread 
Like black magic that, tyres 

Quote from: Zens on June 11, 2023, 21:32What tyres are you running? Sorry if you already mentioned it. But I only remember you run 17" OZ Ultraleggeras.

 I am from the US so I get tires that are not available in your market. The tires I have are relabeled Bridgestone Adrenalin RE003 which is are only available in the Asian and Australian market. If they brought those tires in your market they would  probably gain the same cult status as the relabeled ones in my market.
I have gone though many sets of tires for my car with disappointing results mostly from the popular middle tier brands. This set feels exactly like the stiffness of the OEM tires but with more grip.

Quote from: Joesson on June 11, 2023, 22:41Tyre manufacturers I'm sure would have some criteria for making tyres with varying degrees of sidewall stiffness, but I've not seen reference to this feature in any specification, review or advertising.
I do remember cross ply tyres when they were the norm and the first tyres I recall that demonstrated the difference between cross ply and radial ply tyres were Michelin that I had fitted to my Beetle in the '60's.
In comparison the radials looked as though they were under inflated due to the more flexible side walls

I found a review that address the shortcoming of many online reviews. I wish other tire reviews would comment on this aspect because I think it's the most important.
 If they discontinue the Firestone firehawk I will pay for premium for top tier tires like Bridgestone or Michelin that are known to have responsive feel which is probably why they cost a premium. Nothing worse than being married to lack luster tires waiting to try something else and then falling in the same trap with more reviews.

https://tirepost.com/2022/02/23/firestone-firehawk-indy-500-vs-michelin-pilot-super-sport/
 
 

Quote from: leomrs on June 12, 2023, 00:18To offer an alternative suggestion to the PFL wheels, I recently bought a set of motegi racing mr146 wheels in 15x8 - et35 front and et28 rear. Fitment is good and I run 205/50 front, 225/45 rear. They're light, imo look good and give me good support for wider rubber.

For now I would like to go with 16" at the rear. And nothing heavier than OEM. So I have decided I will try to get some FL rear wheels. But thanks for the suggestion just the same.

Quote from: Dev on June 12, 2023, 04:29I am from the US so I get tires that are not available in your market. The tires I have are relabeled Bridgestone Adrenalin RE003 which is are only available in the Asian and Australian market. If they brought those tires in your market they would  probably gain the same cult status as the relabeled ones in my market.
I have gone though many sets of tires for my car with disappointing results mostly from the popular middle tier brands. This set feels exactly like the stiffness of the OEM tires but with more grip.

So you are running Firehawk Indy 500? Have you any experience with the PS3, AD08RS and Hankook mentioned here?

Quote from: Dev on June 12, 2023, 04:42I found a review that address the shortcoming of many online reviews. I wish other tire reviews would comment on this aspect because I think it's the most important.
 If they discontinue the Firestone firehawk I will pay for premium for top tier tires like Bridgestone or Michelin that are known to have responsive feel which is probably why they cost a premium. Nothing worse than being married to lack luster tires waiting to try something else and then falling in the same trap with more reviews.

https://tirepost.com/2022/02/23/firestone-firehawk-indy-500-vs-michelin-pilot-super-sport/
 
 

Nice site. Good read. Looked for reviews on the PS3. Only found a Pilot Sport vs Pilot Supersport comparision.

Quote from: leomrs on June 12, 2023, 00:18To offer an alternative suggestion to the PFL wheels, I recently bought a set of motegi racing mr146 wheels in 15x8 - et35 front and et28 rear. Fitment is good and I run 205/50 front, 225/45 rear. They're light, imo look good and give me good support for wider rubber.

The experienced on here (before my time) say 205  nullifies the steering feel.  And 205 is under the width range for an 8j wheel.   

Quote from: Gaz mr-s on June 12, 2023, 08:39The experienced on here (before my time) say 205  nullifies the steering feel.  And 205 is under the width range for an 8j wheel.   

Nuff said.

I am on 195 front because the slightly reduced understeer is to my tatse but the 185 steers more directly, period.

From factory the PFL mr2 came with Bridgestone (Potenza i think) I do remember noting the sidewalls were very stiff compared to other tyres of that size.
I have a customer with at 2015 Golf that always had Bridgestones fitted S001 I think.
When we changed to Pirelli the sidewalls were much softer (Much easier to fit too).
The MK2 MR2 came with Yokohama from factory and again a really hard side wall.