Quote from: Gaz mr-s on June 13, 2023, 13:59Read tests read tests read tests.  The only thing that Rainsport test well at is aquaplaning resistance.  The track guys that can afford two sets of tyres use them in the wet only.  K125 are not soft.  Maybe not as stiff as ADO8RS.  More agile than the Falken.  Both available in pfl & FL sizes.

The Falken I heard are pretty soft. The K125 are closer to the Falken or closer to the AD08RS? The K125 are cheap enough for a track set, if they are any good for that.

Somewhere in my search I heard some Kumhos mentioned here and there. Should I pay any attention to them?

By the way, are the Toyo T1Rrs considered soft?

Old Toyo T1R are soft. Newer TR1 are firmer.  Instead of asking individual's opinions READ TESTS

You are not going to get a road tyre that is good for track use.  Demands are different.

I think I'm done on this....

Quote from: Zens on June 13, 2023, 14:50Thanks! Great to know. I guess Rainsports are out then. Somebody posted them as alternative to the Toyos TR1s saying the Rainsport is much better and that they are great for daily and light track days. Didn't mention anything about wet. Then I googled and found some positive feedback about them. Oh well, They are out.

Any good tyres for the track which won't brake the bank? Since I will burn them around the track I don't feel like paying AD08RS or PS3 money for them. But it needs to be road legal tyres as I need to drive to the track on them.

To be honest if it's wet enough to consider Rainsports, it's got the point the driver matters more than the tyre. TR1 is capable but again wet only - like Rainsports they'll melt to nothing in 30 laps in the dry.

Is your car road first, track second... Or track first, road second?

There is a level of difference between an affordable road tyre that can cope on track (ie AD08, NS2R, 595R, etc), versus an affordable track tyre you can drive home with (ie, AD052, AR1, 888R, etc). Both serve different functions.

Quote from: Gaz mr-s on June 13, 2023, 15:30Old Toyo T1R are soft. Newer TR1 are firmer.  Instead of asking individual's opinions READ TESTS

You are not going to get a road tyre that is good for track use.  Demands are different.

I think I'm done on this....

I am reading tests and reviews. But asking here as well means results with our cars, which I find important. Besides I'm always skeptical of reviews. In the end of the day they are also opinions and like car reviews, results can vary depending on what they are trying to sell and sponsors, if you know what I mean. And as brought up here already. most reviews don't mention things like side wall stiffness. I also think opinions here, a closed community with an interest in the same use case, in this case, the MR2, counts just as much as a review to be honest.

So IMO, the best is to combine all the feedback from different sources to make your opinion.

Lastly, I'm aware I won't find a road tyre which is a full on performer on the track. So I know we would be talking about compromises. And there are many people who do track days on their road tyres. I'm not going to turn my car into a dedicated track car and neither will I be on the track all the time or expect full on track performance. I'm just trying to have a bit of fun a few weekends a year.  So again, looking for the best compromise. if they are useful for some fun around a track, the tyres could even not be that great for road use. As long as they are road legal and I can make it to the track on them. I will have another set for my normal driving. Most likely AD08RS or PS3.

P.S. I asked about the T1R because this is what I have now. So I can have some sort of baseline for comparisons, as I know how the T1Rs feel on the MR2.

Quote from: AJRFulton on June 13, 2023, 15:39To be honest if it's wet enough to consider Rainsports, it's got the point the driver matters more than the tyre. TR1 is capable but again wet only - like Rainsports they'll melt to nothing in 30 laps in the dry.

Is your car road first, track second... Or track first, road second?

There is a level of difference between an affordable road tyre that can cope on track (ie AD08, NS2R, 595R, etc), versus an affordable track tyre you can drive home with (ie, AD052, AR1, 888R, etc). Both serve different functions.

Definitely road first, track second.

I'm not really interested in the TR1. I asked about the T1R because this is what I have now.

Quote from: Zens on June 13, 2023, 15:54Definitely road first, track second.

I'm not really interested in the TR1. I asked about the T1R because this is what I have now.

 I have driven a few cars with the older Toyo Proxes. I felt that they were very soft compared to the Yokohama S. Drives. The S. Drives are tires that I felt were well balanced and predictable but sill not there with the stiffness I was after which is the OEM however many would be happy with this kind of tire.   

 The best way I found to predict a tires stiffness is by independent consensus from actual users on a multitude of platforms for the reputation it carries. If you type into google the tire + soft sidewall you will get many independent comments on the sidewall stiffness. Next type in the same tire + stiff sidewall and see what you get. If it's the same complaints with being soft it becomes interesting. I did this with the T1R and it has a consensus of being soft.

 I am not saying this is a fool proof way of knowing but if a tire has a well deserved reputation for either being stiff or soft by independent consensus there is a high likely hood that is what you are getting.

After that I do believe that actual professional tire reviews for grip is not that far off as well as wet weather performance.
 When it comes to tire wear I found the ratings different between the brands. At best it is a guide.

Quote from: Zens on June 13, 2023, 14:50Any good tyres for the track which won't brake the bank? Since I will burn them around the track I don't feel like paying AD08RS or PS3 money for them. But it needs to be road legal tyres as I need to drive to the track on them.

Like the add for a secretary;  ´Max. 25, 10 years of experience, professional, willing to ´sleep´ with boss´, minimum wages.


Meanwhile ordered the 195/50 82V R15 AD08RSs at 101 pound (each) incl. fitting and balancing.

Quote from: Dev on June 13, 2023, 16:46I have driven a few cars with the older Toyo Proxes. I felt that they were very soft compared to the Yokohama S. Drives. The S. Drives are tires that I felt were well balanced and predictable but sill not there with the stiffness I was after which is the OEM however many would be happy with this kind of tire.   

 The best way I found to predict a tires stiffness is by independent consensus from actual users on a multitude of platforms for the reputation it carries. If you type into google the tire + soft sidewall you will get many independent comments on the sidewall stiffness. Next type in the same tire + stiff sidewall and see what you get. If it's the same complaints with being soft it becomes interesting. I did this with the T1R and it has a consensus of being soft.

 I am not saying this is a fool proof way of knowing but if a tire has a well deserved reputation for either being stiff or soft by independent consensus there is a high likely hood that is what you are getting.

After that I do believe that actual professional tire reviews for grip is not that far off as well as wet weather performance.
 When it comes to tire wear I found the ratings different between the brands. At best it is a guide.

Thanks. I also have Toyo on my daily driver and on that I like them. But they are not the T1R. They are the Sport. Car handles well with them. They came on the car. So I might change to Michelin when the time comes to replace them. Just because. But no complains for the use they are getting. Although a totally different type of car obviously, being a 4 door saloon. If they are also on the softer side, that is a good thing for the car. The large and wide wheels with low profile tyres can get pretty crash at times. So softer doesn't hurt here, as it's a daily. So if going Michelin or any other premium brand, I wouldn't necessarily want harder.

 

Quote from: Zens on May 28, 2023, 19:56Talking about premium, it seems controversial outside of the big main brands and seems to depend on the market.

I searched what is conisdered premium and the only absolutle premium brands, those which appeared in all lists were Michelin, Pirelli, Goodyear and Continental. Apart from that it was different for the US, UK and German speaking countries. Bridgestone and Dunlop was considered premium in some markets. While Hankook was premium only I think in the UK. Some very few times, Yokohama was also considered premium. But in many lists Hankook and Yokohama was considered to be mid range along with Toyo, Falken and Avon.

So the question is, how much does it matter to be premium and if one really cares, then it should be Michelin, Pirelli, Continental or Goodyear.

I do like the Pilot Sport series as I have had them in other cars and liked them. Plus Michelin has a great reputation and are on probably more peformance cars than most brands it seems. But like you said, personal experience probably counts more than what brand is premium, as there doesn't seem to be an agreement outside of the big 4. Even Bridgestone, which is the biggest is sometimes not listed as premium.

Revisiting this, looking at a local online shop, this is how the tyre brands are stacked in the dropdown menu:


free image hosting sites

So according to them, Yokohama is not premium. Meaning there is no great tyre being made from any of the "premium" brands for our cars, apart from the PS3, which is now "old". Ok, there is Hankook. But they are not always on the premium list. I have seen them listed with Toyo and Yokohama in other sites. I guess premium manufactures have given up on the size.

Doesn't affect anything. Just chatter. I will most likely just go with AD08RS. Unless they being semi-slick is a problem somehow here. I think the local autocross for example doesn't seem to allow semi-slick in the street category.

On a side note, either the tyre market has gotten way more crowded or I just never knew. But most of the brands I have never heard. Personal experience I only have with Pirelli, Michelin, Goodyear, Continental, Firestone, Falken and Toyo.

Quote from: Zens on June 14, 2023, 07:06Thanks. I also have Toyo on my daily driver and on that I like them. But they are not the T1R. They are the Sport. Car handles well with them. They came on the car. So I might change to Michelin when the time comes to replace them. Just because. But no complains for the use they are getting. Although a totally different type of car obviously, being a 4 door saloon. If they are also on the softer side, that is a good thing for the car. The large and wide wheels with low profile tyres can get pretty crash at times. So softer doesn't hurt here, as it's a daily. So if going Michelin or any other premium brand, I wouldn't necessarily want harder.

 

 I had a similar experience with my luxury car which is heavy and has 19" wheels. Because I am a bit obsessed with stiff tires I bought Bridgestone all season sport tires. The sidewalls were stiff and compounded by the low profile they made the suspension work extra hard. It felt like the timing was off with how the dampers move and the luxury ride was gone. Once I changed them out for Bridgestone touring tires which have a softer tire compound the car feels right in the way it handles. I cant explain it but it's not just that its more comfortable it makes the car feel better balanced making maneuvers.   

Quote from: Zens on June 14, 2023, 07:28Revisiting this, looking at a local online shop, this is how the tyre brands are stacked in the dropdown menu:


free image hosting sites

So according to them, Yokohama is not premium. Meaning there is no great tyre being made from any of the "premium" brands for our cars, apart from the PS3, which is now "old". Ok, there is Hankook. But they are not always on the premium list. I have seen them listed with Toyo and Yokohama in other sites. I guess premium manufactures have given up on the size.

Doesn't affect anything. Just chatter. I will most likely just go with AD08RS. Unless they being semi-slick is a problem somehow here. I think the local autocross for example doesn't seem to allow semi-slick in the street category.

On a side note, either the tyre market has gotten way more crowded or I just never knew. But most of the brands I have never heard. Personal experience I only have with Pirelli, Michelin, Goodyear, Continental, Firestone, Falken and Toyo.

 A lot of what we see today in top tier categories is all over the place. Hankook is a budget Korean brand that has made a competitive name but they are not on the same level as top tier. Donlop does make some good tires but they have been bought out by a conglomerate called Sumitomo Rubber that also owns various other tires brands like Falken which is not top tier. It has been reported that there are some similarities between models of Falken and Dunlop.
 What makes a top tier tire manufacture is a high level of research and development where they might hold patents for specific technology that gives them an edge and being large factory supplier for the industry.
Yokohama is a top tier manufacture but on the whole I think they are behind Michelin and Bridgestone.

Quote from: Dev on June 14, 2023, 14:40I had a similar experience with my heavy luxury car which is heavy and has 19" wheels. Because I am a bit obsessed with stiff tires I bought Bridgestone all season sport tires. The sidewalls were stiff and compounded by the low profile they made the suspension work extra hard. It felt like the timing was off with how the dampers move and the luxury ride was gone. Once I changed them out for Bridgestone touring tires which have a softer tire compound the car feels right in the way it handles. I cant explain it but it's not just that its more comfortable it makes the car feel better balanced making maneuvers. 

Makes sense. Maybe if one only has one car, which needs to do it all, he would need to put up with a stiff ride. But as we have a weekend sports car, why bother and ruin the comfort ride?

I was just reading about the Yokohama A052 right here on the forum. It was on a thread which initially gave raving reviews to the Zestino Gredge 07R, till they blew up on the track. But the A052 had some great reviews and feedback in the thread. With some calling it the best universal tyre. But I guess it's more of a track tyre? Considerably more expensive than the AD08RS though. But the main let down is that it seems to be only available in 195/55/15 and 205/50/15. So less stagger than stock, and larger front diam.

But the way, anybody has an idea of which rims is this?

Quote from: Zens on June 14, 2023, 14:59Makes sense. Maybe if one only has one car, which needs to do it all, he would need to put up with a stiff ride. But as we have a weekend sports car, why bother and ruin the comfort ride?

I was just reading about the Yokohama A052 right here on the forum. It was on a thread which initially gave raving reviews to the Zestino Gredge 07R, till they blew up on the track. But the A052 had some great reviews and feedback in the thread. With some calling it the best universal tyre. But I guess it's more of a track tyre? Considerably more expensive than the AD08RS though. But the main let down is that it seems to be only available in 195/55/15 and 205/50/15. So less stagger than stock, and larger front diam.

 The original OEM tires are quite interesting considering there is more than 20 years of tire development which one generation removed.
 I still remember the feel and response but you could easily reach the limits of grip on the street even at slow speeds on tight corners and the wet traction was abysmal. Thats just the way it was and it was considered normal for the time.
Now it seems that with every generation of tire the grip has improved tremendously that it takes a lot of cornering g-forces before I can slip the tires. With the previous tires that I had which was the Falken RT615K it was comical taking a sharp right hand turn into another street at high speed with my suspension in full tilt leaning over and I have coilovers. 
 There was always room for improvement over the OEM in terms of grip for the street but I think that limit has been reached so when the industry comes out with the next best tire raising the bar once more and the hype surrounding its grip as the primary selling point I feel its pointless.
I would be happy buying the same tires even if they are a few generations behind.

Quote from: Zens on June 14, 2023, 15:01But the way, anybody has an idea of which rims is this?

Hi Zens
You may have to wait a while for an answer to your query as your photos aren't opening on my gadget.

They look like Advan RS-DF wheels to me.

Quote from: Gaz mr-s on June 12, 2023, 08:39The experienced on here (before my time) say 205  nullifies the steering feel.  And 205 is under the width range for an 8j wheel.   

Track orientated setup - I'm ok losing some steering feel for a quicker lap time. And yes my front's are unfortunately a little more stretched than I'd like as the wheel I went for isn't offered in 7J and it's hard to justify larger track tyre sizes when the car spends most of its time on the road.

Quote from: Zens on June 12, 2023, 07:34For now I would like to go with 16" at the rear. And nothing heavier than OEM. So I have decided I will try to get some FL rear wheels. But thanks for the suggestion just the same.

16 at the rear does have benefits. If you get something not too dissimilar to the 15" stock rear wheels then the performance benefit is the option to run a stiffer and lower sidewall tyre.
 

Quote from: leomrs on June 15, 2023, 03:3916 at the rear does have benefits. If you get something not too dissimilar to the 15" stock rear wheels then the performance benefit is the option to run a stiffer and lower sidewall tyre.
 

I have since changed my mind about getting 16" for the rears.

I have decided to stick to my PFL wheels for now. The only tyre set I like which allows me to keep 185 at the front is the AD08RS if I go FL 16". PS3 and even the Yoko A052 will mean 195 at the front. The others seem to be on the softer side wall side, which I want to avoid.

So I will get some AD08RS and get some time in with them on the PFL wheels, both on the road and on the track. Then I will decide if I really want or need 16" at the rear or even new wheels. If I don't like the AD08RS, keeping the 15" rear opens up more options than going 16". If I like the AD08RS, I have the option of going 16" FL for the rear and buying another set of AD08RS.  Maybe I will just refinish my PFL rims in a different colour than silver for now.


This decision was based on the fact I can't find a tyre + lighter than OEM rim combo that allows me to keep 185 at the front or even a proper staggering. Combined with the AD08RS being the only stiff set which allows 185 at the front or proper staggering with the FL 16".

Quote from: Alex Knight on June 14, 2023, 16:18They look like Advan RS-DF wheels to me.

Looks very similar indeed.

Quote from: Dev on June 14, 2023, 14:56A lot of what we see today in top tier categories is all over the place. Hankook is a budget Korean brand that has made a competitive name but they are not on the same level as top tier. Donlop does make some good tires but they have been bought out by a conglomerate called Sumitomo Rubber that also owns various other tires brands like Falken which is not top tier. It has been reported that there are some similarities between models of Falken and Dunlop.
 What makes a top tier tire manufacture is a high level of research and development where they might hold patents for specific technology that gives them an edge and being large factory supplier for the industry.
Yokohama is a top tier manufacture but on the whole I think they are behind Michelin and Bridgestone.

To me Hankook was never premium. So I was surprised to see it on the premium list of some sites. But it seems to be the minority of sites putting Hankook in the premium list.

I have heard the Dunlop-Falken thing. With the Dunlop connection being used as a compliment to Falken quality. My winter tyres on my daily driver currently are Falken and I can't say I can fault them. Last December I took a road trip where it was raining heavily the whole 2 hours way. No problem driving at motorway speeds on the Falkens under the heavy rain and being cold. Never felt unsafe. And we are talking RWD here. It's my first Falken set but they are fine by me. I got them because somebody recommended them as a more performance oriented winter tyre, which wouldn't break the bank. No idea how good their summer tyres are. But based on my current experience with their winter set, I would have no hesitation in buying Falken summer tyres. My issue with the ZE310 is side wall stiffness.   

Pleased to read you've made a decision.

Goodyear & Sumitomo used to be in partnership of the Dunlop brand, but ended it. Most of Europe's Dunlop are Sumitomo.
The US tyres are Goodyear-produced.

I have Falken F510 on a BMW that generates huge grip. They replaced Michelin. No lack of grip.  If they were made in MR2 sizes I'd buy them for it.

I'd never heard of Hankook 5 years ago. They sponsor racing series (I don't know if used in it) & they are fitted as O/E by manufacturers.

Quote from: Zens on June 15, 2023, 07:28To me Hankook was never premium. So I was surprised to see it on the premium list of some sites. But it seems to be the minority of sites putting Hankook in the premium list.

I have heard the Dunlop-Falken thing. With the Dunlop connection being used as a compliment to Falken quality. My winter tyres on my daily driver currently are Falken and I can't say I can fault them. Last December I took a road trip where it was raining heavily the whole 2 hours way. No problem driving at motorway speeds on the Falkens under the heavy rain and being cold. Never felt unsafe. And we are talking RWD here. It's my first Falken set but they are fine by me. I got them because somebody recommended them as a more performance oriented winter tyre, which wouldn't break the bank. No idea how good their summer tyres are. But based on my current experience with their winter set, I would have no hesitation in buying Falken summer tyres. My issue with the ZE310 is side wall stiffness.   

Having previously used Falken summer tires I felt the sidewalls were ok but nothing like the Firestones I have now. Having said that I will never downgrade to tires that are less than the stiffness I have now so the Falkens are off my list. Grip is important but all of the tires in the same category are over fulfilled for my needs so its not as important. A tire with a weak sidewall is so disappointing but for others I am sure they would not notice or the stiff sidewall would have the opposite effect where they seek comfort.

Peace in our time?

I am having another similar discussion/debate elsewhere where I am giving my subjective opinions.

I do not mean to offend anyone that likes a particular tire. My opinions are for what I like and maybe someone else will like them also or not.
  I have never driven a car with the Yokohama Fleva and I am sure they meet the needs for many and will be bought again because people are more than happy with them.
However if I had to go in blind not knowing what to buy the best source of information is how the manufacture categorizes their tires follow by professional reviews and user opinions. If someone dumps on the tires it is unjustified because it is not what the manufacture designed it for to compare to others. 
I found this link interesting. For my needs would want a tire that Yokohama categorizes with others in their line up with the superior handling designation.

https://www.yokohama.com.au/our-range/tyres?cat=Advan%20Tyres