Acrylic side windows

[Petrus]

Fínally found a useful photo of the door glass:


You cannot view this attachment.


The fixtures; three bolts and two guide plastics, look simple enough to copy too.

I think I will have a go. The only bugger is that I will have to take the windows out of my own as templates. Bit of a timing issue only though as I have a dust cover.
The plastic foam sandwich I found for the wing side plates is ideal for lightweight door cards so will do those at the same time.

[shnazzle]

Fínally found a useful photo of the door glass:


You cannot view this attachment.


The fixtures; three bolts and two guide plastics, look simple enough to copy too.

I think I will have a go. The only bugger is that I will have to take the windows out of my own as templates. Bit of a timing issue only though as I have a dust cover.
The plastic foam sandwich I found for the wing side plates is ideal for lightweight door cards so will do those at the same time.

Would you not be better off trying to get a breaker window? Or too risky/expensive shipping? 

Reason I say that is because you could then also use that window as a bit of a mold when heating/bending the acrylic

[jvanzyl]

Not to be an idiot here.. but how hard is it to change/remove a window? I've got a couple of spare doors (with the windows up!) and would quite like to get lighter windows myself.

[Petrus]

Problem is indeed shipping as none are availeble here.

Yes, they serve both as template and ´mold´. The bolts and guide pieces can be reused on the acrylic too.
The goal is to have lighweight window that still winds down.
The only trick bit I still need to think about is a strip on the inside as that one sits on the door card. That is not a wíndow problem though but a door card one.

Not difficult at all JvZ.
As the glass has very little curve a heat gun will prvide ample heat to form the acrylic. Just tape upper and lower side firmly bent and it will form. It´s how Carlyn made/makes the Mongos.
Maybe a project for you to make a few? As many as you have doors? or more if you can find altenative fixtures.
I´d buy a set to save the small but crap risk of busting a window of my car 

[Petrus]

would quite like to get lighter windows myself.

I have not given op on the windscreen yet either. The local window fitters did not say no to the idea.Problem is agin that my own one needs to be taken out as template/mold. If I´d have the UK breakers situation, I´d have one in already!!

[Nvy]

I said before that the guy with the fiberglass can make us a set. Also I can get a window easily from a breaker here. I am on two weeks vacation and if you havent got it done by then I can try to arrange something.

[jvanzyl]

Yeah it's more of a "time" thing for me at the moment, go two spare windows (still attached to the doors) and would love to have a bash at this sort of thing but I just have zero time for non-essentials at the moment.

I'm sure there was a company that made these things for us.. can't remember who found them be interested to know how many kilos it saves.

[Petrus]

I said before that the guy with the fiberglass can make us a set. Also I can get a window easily from a breaker here. I am on two weeks vacation and if you havent got it done by then I can try to arrange something.

Much appreciated Ivo! I´d be interested in sides and front in acrylic. Do ask about shipping though...

Also, if JvZ wants to make a buck I prefer to give him the business.

I will be passing the breakers paradise in Málaga this Friday and one of those hád a RHD one a year ago and they míght still have bits. You never know if they can beat shipping cost.

[Petrus]

I'm sure there was a company that made these things for us.. can't remember who found them be interested to know how many kilos it saves.

Templar´s that was. Those were not replicas to fit the window winders though.

Acrylic is 1,2 gram/cm3
Car glass is 3.

Same thickness you will save almost 6 kg on the windscreen and about half that on the two doors.
High up weight too.

[Call the midlife!]

Just to play Devil's advocate it might be worth making some enquires about the legalities/insurance aspect of fitting such things for road use, UK wise I mean.
Windscreens are made from safety glass for a reason, probably side windows too, a sheet of acrylic isn't going to behave in the same way in an accident either for occupants or anyone you should happen to come into contact with.

[shnazzle]

Just to play Devil's advocate it might be worth making some enquires about the legalities/insurance aspect of fitting such things for road use, UK wise I mean.
Windscreens are made from safety glass for a reason, probably side windows too, a sheet of acrylic isn't going to behave in the same way in an accident either for occupants or anyone you should happen to come into contact with.

Funnily enough I was about to be the fun-spoiler and post that. What I was thinking was that car glass is always safety glass that shatters into squillions of tiny parts.. For safety. Also, it shatters easily when a pointy hard object is introduced to it. Must all be for a reason...

But there's reason and then there's legality. Just a case of reading the MOT laws

[Petrus]

Modern road cars by and large have no ´safety´ glass anymore. Most is laminar, certainly the windscreens.
Several road cars have lexan windows actually; from Smartfor2 to Porsche GT·.
The reasons glass is extensively used despite the obvious weight penalty and lexan being both stronger and more flexible are significantly lower cost and the scratch resistance.
Lexan btw has a lower light refraction than glass, several times better than layered glass, meaning clearer visibility...

[Call the midlife!]

"Safety" glass was just used as a generic term for laminated glass which by nature is safer in this application than non-laminated glass.
I know some modern, high end cars have alternatives to glass already but the issue here is they've been designed and manufactured with it from the start.
Swapping to plastic would likely fall foul of the regulations without proper notification.

[bigfootisblurry]

Can lexan be smashed from the outside as easily? I'm thinking in an emergency situation.

[Petrus]

"Safety" glass was just used as a generic term for laminated glass which by nature is safer in this application than non-laminated glass.

Which is plain wrong and confusing use of the word. Safety glass is the term for hardened glass which upon impact fractures in small pieces, which was btw mentioned.

Lexan is safer still than laminated glass. It is per example used in motorcycle helmet visors, motorcycle fairings, aircraft.

The use in road cars underlines that there is not an issue to have it homologated.

Whether it is a legal of insurance issue to use it as aftermarket product is indeed a tricky issue which should be mentioned but something else completely; red tape. What is MoT permitted in the UK per example totally different from most EU countries whereas in the UK the insurers do their own thing again different from the EU territory.
Also many of our cars are illegal; an airbag resistor is just an example. This too illustrates the red tape as in several countries there is an option to switch off the passenger one. Too make it all more silly still, airbags are not obligatory but if fitted OEM then they should function...
Again; a legal/insurance should be mentioned but it is just that. See the use of all round lexan in the Porsche GT3. What is good window material for that car should be good for the little Spyder no?!

[Petrus]

Can lexan be smashed from the outside as easily? I'm thinking in an emergency situation.

Not any more difficult than laminated glass and it is way easier to cut. A moot point in a cabrio btw; cutting/flipping the roof up is easiest.

[Joesson]

My recollection about glass in everyday repmobiles is that my '73 Austin had a toughened glass windscreen, when that was hit by a stone  on the M1 I couldn't see through it. The replacement was a " new" laminated screen. That got hit by another stone  before I got into 5th!
The difference was that I could still see through it and continue.
My understanding is that in such everyday cars the windscreen is laminated, for that reason, and all others are toughened and break into  "squillions of pieces", including the rear window which I have had break while in motion.

[Petrus]

My understanding is that in such everyday cars the windscreen is laminated, for that reason, and all others are toughened and break into a "squillions of pieces", including the rear window which I have had break while in motion.

Make that móst cars coming from the production line now.
Laminated is increasingly used for other windows too as is lexan. We will see increased use of the latter as it is half the weight ánd tougher.

On a side note it should be mentioned that ´commercial use´ versions of several models of everyday cars the passenger and rear quarter windows are/can be replaced by sheet metal.

As I say, the legal/insurance issue it the only ´but´ and though real thus  ´for off road use only´  a silly red tape butt as it is simply bétter.

[Call the midlife!]

"Safety" glass was just used as a generic term for laminated glass which by nature is safer in this application than non-laminated glass.

Which is plain wrong and confusing use of the word. Safety glass is the term for hardened glass which upon impact fractures in small pieces, which was btw mentioned.

Lexan is safer still than laminated glass. It is per example used in motorcycle helmet visors, motorcycle fairings, aircraft.

The use in road cars underlines that there is not an issue to have it homologated.

Whether it is a legal of insurance issue to use it as aftermarket product is indeed a tricky issue which should be mentioned but something else completely; red tape. What is MoT permitted in the UK per example totally different from most EU countries whereas in the UK the insurers do their own thing again different from the EU territory.
Also many of our cars are illegal; an airbag resistor is just an example. This too illustrates the red tape as in several countries there is an option to switch off the passenger one. Too make it all more silly still, airbags are not obligatory but if fitted OEM then they should function...
Again; a legal/insurance should be mentioned but it is just that. See the use of all round lexan in the Porsche GT3. What is good window material for that car should be good for the little Spyder no?!

Which is why I directed it at the UK side of things where automotive "safety" glass has to be kite marked to the British Standard, I used to make it for a living.

This thread is also about acrylic side windows which are a totally different material to lexan, with different physical properties.

[Petrus]

Which is why I directed it at the UK side of things where automotive "safety" glass has to be kite marked to the British Standard, I used to make it for a living.

Even window tinting film needs be homologated.
Our 1984 car had foil fitted late eighties and was rejected on the foil not having homolgation mark at periodic inspection in 2018...

The UK made plastic windows come marked to meet the MSA, FIA and ABG regulations.

[Petrus]

Seems it is not going to happen unless I make them myself; shipping is ludicrous; more than doubles cost.  Back to the Málaga breakers option. Dropping by the local window guys tomorrow for a different thing anyway.

Step 1.: Two side windows from the breakers to use as molds and for the winding mechanism fixtures will cost me 39,- Euros all in.

[iffyT]

Something like this might be worth it to you in terms of price-to-kilos of weight saved:
http://seiboncarbon.co.uk/products/oem-style-carbon-fiber-hood-for-2000-2005-toyota-mrs-2863.html They also do a rear deck etc.
Probably 10-15kg lighter? roughly a hundred euros per kilogram saved... Could even look into making your own from a carbon lay-up kit or fibreglass.
 
I assume you've already made all the cheap mods you can, so unfortunately weight reduction will likely start to get exponentially more expensive or likely to compromise function for daily use.

Perhaps a welded alloy subframe replacement?
You could go around the suspension and replace all the bolts with Ti equivalents?
Fill body cavities with Helium? (The car, not you!)

[Petrus]

Something like this might be worth it to you in terms of price-to-kilos of weight saved:
http://seiboncarbon.co.uk/products/oem-style-carbon-fiber-hood-for-2000-2005-toyota-mrs-2863.html They also do a rear deck etc.
Probably 10-15kg lighter? roughly a hundred euros per kilogram saved... Could even look into making your own from a carbon lay-up kit or fibreglass.

Thank you for the suggestions.
Carbon bits are burdened by ludicrous shipping costs.

We have tried to get the bonnet and rear deck made in a group buy from within the EU but there is insufficient interest to make it cost effective.

Missed out on the cheap one that popped up on ebay a few months ago.

I assume you've already made all the cheap mods you can,

Yes. And then some.

Ti bolts are pigs as the material galls. Just fitted some for bling purpose only.

[Nvy]

Seems it is not going to happen unless I make them myself; shipping is ludicrous; more than doubles cost.  Back to the Málaga breakers option. Dropping by the local window guys tomorrow for a different thing anyway.

Step 1.: Two side windows from the breakers to use as molds and for the winding mechanism fixtures will cost me 39,- Euros all in.

Are you going to make them yourself? 39 euros looks like quite a nice deal, here id be spending the better part of 100 for just right and left window alone.

[Petrus]

Are you going to make them yourself? 39 euros looks like quite a nice deal, here id be spending the better part of 100 for just right and left window alone.

Yes, will have a go; 38.50 € for the two OEM windows to use as mold is a good beginning.
Dropping by the window boys about acrylic later this afternoon.