Hi all,
I bought an 02 MR2 last year as a fun car and to do a few track days including the Nurburgring. I race bikes but this was my first serious dip into a track car. I love it and several days training with Don Palmer of Driving Developments and others have really helped me get the most out of it but.......ultimately just as with road bikes on the track their shortcomings get exposed when you start pushing on. So the question is: given a budget of 5k or so would I be better setting the MR2 up for the track - TRD etc or should I just chop it in against a VX220 Turbo or Elise and accept the limitations on the road? I don't do many road miles but it does get used regularly so whatever I do must be dual purpose but angled more to track than road. I know selling the MR2 might be heresy on this site but you seem like a pretty balanced lot s:wink: :wink: s:wink: All thoughts welcome. PS I have through expensive experience learn't that the speed equation always starts with the driver, followed by the suspension, followed a distant third by power so most of the budget would go on chassis if that helps s:?: :?: s:?:
Theres lots you can do for not much money to improve things... First up, get the TRD member braces, a anti flex plate, and a Front strut brace to stiffen things up, This makes an unbelievable difference to the pre facelift cars.
Next, go for uprated suspension. TRD sportivo, Tien, Leda... theres loads of options.
That lot should see you into some fairly quick lap times.
Bear in mind that the MR2, albeit in much modified form, has been cleaning up for years in the GTC race series, so it s a more than capable track machine. Also woth considering is the fact that if you prang it, you can pretty much fix it yourself. Lotus bodyshells arent cheap...
VX220 are damn cheap now, and you'll have a hard time matching it with the MR2
However, the MR2 at the track level of the VX220 is still more streetable than a stock Vx220 :p
i think Grant has pretty much covered it. Best place to start looking is of course with our own Dieamonds shop at
w www.mrs-passion.com (http://www.mrs-passion.com) w
then try heading over to these
w www.japanparts.com (http://www.japanparts.com) w
w www.takakiara.co.jp (http://www.takakiara.co.jp) w
w www.whifbitz.co.uk (http://www.whifbitz.co.uk) w
as for the breastplates, see m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=24138 (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=24138) m
corky is out of stock at the mo but pm him and he'll most likely be doing a new GB soon.
for 5K you should have everything done, suspension, ARB, Tyres, breastplates and still have loads left over for a track day or 2 s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
VXT - much better track machine and you wont lose all of your £5k when it comes to resale.
James
Quote from: "jamesn"VXT - much better track machine
Funny how I keep overtaking them at Estoril. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Now, really, the VXT in it's stock form is faster on the track than a stock MR2.
He's asking if he should think of upgrading the '2 for track, or take a Vx220 directly
On a '2 for track I would put :
- RG Damper Sepc V -> 2000
- Cusco front stabilizer -> 200
- Cusco member braces front -> 120
- Cusco sub frame plate -> 110
- TRD Front strut bar -> 250
- David's style bars -> 350
- Harness -> 200
- TRD brake pads Fr and Rr -> 270
Total : 3500 Euros
Beside that, engine mods :
- PPE intake -> 300
- PPE header + hi flo cat -> 800
- Exhaust -> 700
- Power FC -> 1000 + 500 for tuning
Total : 3300 Euros
Grand Total : 6800 Euros, 4615 £; inc VAT and shipping
Mail me to order s:-D :-D s:-D
Quote from: "dieamond"(...)
On a '2 for track I would put :
(...)
- David's style bars -> 350
- Harness -> 200
(...)
Aren't the Style bars purely cosmetic? Also, where would you mount the harness?
just for the info
corkies breastplate from the link at spyderchat is effectively the same as Cusco sub frame plate mentioned by Dieamond
I personally would always go with buying a new car that's more suitable for the purpose rather than modifying one to be what you need. Unless you plan never to sell the car on that is.
It really depends on what you're after. The '2 is a great all-round car and if you're happy (as per GSB's suggestions) goes a long way. Having just driven a '2 & Elise back-to-back on track last week, I can very well say that the '2 can be lot of fun, though of course not as quick for the same driver.
You've gracefully stated a good driver makes a huge difference - from my own experiences a 'good' driver can make a staggering 20% difference per lap on my times (note: wasn't a trackday). This is plenty enough to ensure that you could be 'ahead of the game' from any 'average' driver of an Elise or VX.
Ultimately it's going to be the suspension that's going to be your weakest point being single wish-bone - minimising roll is your goal, even at the expense of comfort. I wouldn't blow a fortune on it though as there's only so much that can be done, unless you know how to tune a suspension to your own personal tastes.
With the previously mentioned chassis add-ons which are cheap and easy, it's none too shabby.
The brakes are undoubtly great, but watch out that the pads you use can take the temperature. I would disagree with dieamond's choice of TRD - they're great street pads with excellent cold bite and a good coefficient, but likely to crumble when subjected to track use. Look to the usual suspects - Pagid and Mintex - for your intended use.
Quote from: "so.simple"Quote from: "dieamond"(...)
On a '2 for track I would put :
(...)
- David's style bars -> 350
- Harness -> 200
(...)
Aren't the Style bars purely cosmetic? Also, where would you mount the harness?
Style bars add a lot of strengh to the middle of the car, and you can attach the harness on them s:-D :-D s:-D
Quote from: "mph"xxx
I disagree
1) suspensions is where you gain the most on the spyder, and the price difference between TRD Waydo and coilovers track oriented like the RG is the same as between the stock and the TRD waydo
2) stock brake pads are great, and the TRD give you for cheap just the little push you miss.
Biggest single improvement to the cars handling = tyres.
sure
and pilot
The pilot doesn't change the cars handling (or performance for that matter), meerly utilises it... How well they utilise it is another matter entirely s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I have been very tempted by an elise S2, its a simple one stop solution to getting a better car and they look stunning. Only problem is you must make sure your passenger doesn't poop themselves while sitting next to you when your driving, as the seats are incredibly close together!
To improve the handling of my 03 there isn't much I can do as I have front & rear TRD strut braces and TTE springs. Other take coil overs I think the only other add on is anti roll bars.
anti roll bars will make a huge difference and I justhappen to know someone selling the TTE ones s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Pm me! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I personally don't think you can beat an Exige then Elise or VX Turbo for track use compared to a 2. They are more honed for that purpose but naturally this means they are not a scomfortable as the 2 on the road.
I heard that the VXturbo abs system doesn't work too well when the brakes get hot - cuts in too early and increases braking distances - this would have to be sorted for a track car s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "RUSTY"I heard that the VXturbo abs system doesn't work too well when the brakes get hot - cuts in too early and increases braking distances - this would have to be sorted for a track car s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
That reminds me of something - must go looking to see if our cars have an ABS fuse that'll disable the ABS or not (If they do, I'd be tempted to do that at Angelsea, just to see how it behaves sans ABS)
abs was fine when i did Donington last
It was fine when I did Elvington, too - I just fancy experimenting s:) :) s:)
theres 2 fuses though that could be pulled on the ABS system, they are linked through a relay to the ABS hydralic motor and servo pack, but the ABS ECU still has several power links and may cause problems, lets try it and see what happens on the day s:? :? s:? we'll definatley get a light but there shouldn't be anything else
It's worth a try s:) :) s:) What's the worst that could happen.. (no brakes? s:lol: :lol: s:lol: ) I'm just interested to see what pedal feel is like 'on the limit' so to speak s:) :) s:)
ABS cuts in so late anyway I'll don't think you'll get a lot of benefit.
However, it would be interesting to see how much left there is before the brakes do lock but, as the brakes are still working even with ABS activated, I don't think there is a lot of benefit. The downside of no ABS is that you run into a load of cones.
Also worth noting when I was at North Weald, the guy with no ABS on his Elise was having no end of problems on the bend - locking up and running extremely wide.
In the 2, the ABS would activate yet the car would still steer perfectly and turn well inside the wall. The brakes and balance of the car made the braking through the turn activity almost pointless in this car - it was so benign.
Overall, I think I'll be soft and stick with the non purist route.
Jason
For what it's worth, my next car purchase will be a second Roadster specifically for track use. I'm talking totally stripped out, upgraded everything, and certainly not with a 1ZZ in (and probably not a 2ZZ either...)
I love the car and the way it handles. I can't justify an Elise or similar for track use only, so I'll stick with what I know and enjoy that.
In the MK2 there was two (electrical) plugs in the frunk, unplugging either disables the ABS.
Quote from: "Ekona"For what it's worth, my next car purchase will be a second Roadster specifically for track use. I'm talking totally stripped out, upgraded everything, and certainly not with a 1ZZ in (and probably not a 2ZZ either...)
I love the car and the way it handles. I can't justify an Elise or similar for track use only, so I'll stick with what I know and enjoy that.
As a pure track car you can't beat a Caterfield IMO. It'll be cheaper in every respect and they're a lot more suited to track work.
Quote from: "juansolo"As a pure track car you can't beat a Caterfield IMO. It'll be cheaper in every respect and they're a lot more suited to track work.
Eek, the thought of Dan building a car.... s;) ;) s;) s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
(I know, easy to pick up secondhand/abandoned projects/turnkey)
Quote from: "aaronjb"Eek, the thought of Dan building a car.... s;) ;) s;) s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:P :P s:P
You're probably right about the Caterfield Juansolo, but something like that has never really appealed to me in terms of style. I have no doubt that it would be much quicker round a track, but I'm not at that stage yet where I'd feel comfortable working on car like that: I know the '2, and I'd like to build up something unique based around it.
I'm going to need to lock my garage aren't I s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "markiii"I'm going to need to lock my garage aren't I s:? :? s:?
Yes, or you may find me camped out in there one day in the Nissan.. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
(Probably with Dan's new track car parked next to it)
s;) ;) s;)
MR2 - s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
VXT - s:scared: :scared: s:scared:
and that's all I have to say on the matter
I was breaking incredibly late into the chicaine at Elvinton and never had the ABS kick in, I don't think I would bother removing the fuse, although it would be interesting to see if it works. Go on Dan, what engine?
Quote from: "aaronjb"Quote from: "markiii"I'm going to need to lock my garage aren't I s:? :? s:?
Yes, or you may find me camped out in there one day in the Nissan.. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
(Probably with Dan's new track car parked next to it)
s;) ;) s;)
s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Don't worry Mark, I'm not planning to take over your garage just yet... s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
@Lee: I'm toying with the idea of putting a V6 in there instead. It's already been done in the States, so the knowledge is already out there, it's just a case of learning it all myself. That's quite a way off though (late next year at the earliest): I'm just looking forward to ripping the guts out of a stock '2 first! s:D :D s:D
Yeah, sound like alot of fun! Bare metal and 2 bucket seats I hope!
Wow, ask a question, log out for 24 hours or so and the place goes mad - thanks everyone for your thoughts. I took a VXT out for a test drive yesterday - usual fairly pointless exercise on roads around our wonderful capital city but following observations: 1. It's much more refined over broken London streets than I expected - probably better than my 2 (Eibach springs and the roof on but otherwise stock). 2. It is very quick!! I used to have an S2000 and it would leave it for dead (obviously a highly objective opinion s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ) 3. You do get a real sensation of driving something a bit special - very focused, big flared wings from the driving seat, lots of noise from behind (nice noise too) 4. Bit tight, I am 6'3 and 16 stone - the seats are a tight fit and I would imagine would get seriously uncomfortable on a long trip. The steering wheel sits virtually in your lap to the extent that fixed position wheel twirling interferes with your legs. 5. The steering itself is very heavy at low speeds. Lovely feel though. 6. Didn't get a proper opportunity to launch it into some corners but prior track time in Elises and standard VXs suggest it should be fine.
Conclusions? it isn't easy - I got back in the MR2 and was immediately reminded of all that is good about them - comfortable, fun, easy to live with, practical (in a ridiculously impractical way!) and a hoot to drive. There is no doubt the VX is a much more serious proposition - it really is a pain to get in and out of and daily use would undoubtedly get pretty tiresome, but, it is soooo fast, and at the moment soooo bloody cheap (we have to accept that cheap is a relative thing on this forum!!) I think I may have to let the MR2 go. I'll never recover the investment on parts for the 2 and ultimately it won't get to VX standards. But as someone wisely pointed out - the moment I prang the VX or more likely someone dings it on the street the 'pleasure' of low volume specialist car ownership will bite hard.
I need a drink and a lie down.
Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll let you know what I do.
Richard
PS Merry Christmas everyone, drive safe and have a great '06
Since I turned a show car MR2 into pretty much a track I'll throw my opinion into this.
What the spyder required to be a save and fun track day car is:
1)A functionaly rollbar to keep you alive. This requires custom fabrication since no one makes a bolt in one. They hardtop will not save you in a rollover.
2)Better suspension-Coilovers. The stock suspension is too soft. Frankly most of the aftermarket coilovers have too low of a springa rate as well. Also bigger sways bars make a big improvement.
3)Additions to the engine to keep it from blowing up-Oil cooler. 1zz motors without oil cooler can see oil temps above 300*F.
Newer MR2s have an oil cooler anyway - don't they?
all european/uk spec ones have an oil cooler