The Supertech dual valve springs and Moroso sump have now arrived, need to check out the condition of the head in terms of surface etc.

Will look to install the valves etc soon if the head seems to be ok, I can then check to see what the clearance is between the bucket and cam.

I believe I have basically all the parts I now need to build the engine, will still need to get the intake manifold sorted but thats last to be bolted on.

I will next be starting to build a stockpile of fueling parts, will probably run the stock injectors initially but would look to upgrade the pump and run a return line whilst the engine is being swapped over.

I do also need to get the gearbox sent off for the rebuild and upgrade to JUBU gears.

The engine build has now started! Still need to order a clutch, dividerless intake manifold, 'wideband' Knock sensor and get the box sent off for a rebuild but everything is coming along ok.

Here is where I am at:

Main studs are fitted and torqued down so both halves of the block are together, including the liquid gasket between the 2 halves, with the crank and new bearings in place. All clearances have been checked and everything has been cleaned and recleaned, have used some engine assembly oil and the crank spins freely with no binding.

Traum pistons now have their piston rings installed.

Cylinder head is being cleaned up - its got a lot of carbon on the exhaust side but its almost at a stage I am happy with it.

Next on the list is fitting the pistons to the Molnar conrods, I can then fit those to the crankshaft with the new bearings and torque+angle the ARP rod bolts.

After the pistons are in I can then basically bolt everything else down between the 2 parts of the block, add in the stock windage tray and oil pickup tube. I can then fit the Moroso sump and seal up the bottom of the engine - will then fit the main oil seal etc. I also have a brand new OEM oil pump, plus all new OEM chain guides which will be fitted closer to the time when the head is ready.

After the block is all sealed up I can then start working on the cylinder head more, will fit the Supertech valvetrain and then the cams to start working out which shim buckets I need vs the ones I currently have.

Good work sound like its coming on nicely

Great progress!

A question tho, how hard is working on the engine? Im thinking if I should do some work myself or I should give it to a shop. Pros - somebody who has seen an engine will work on it, cons - way too expensive and in general wont do very good job as most of the guys are fixing what you tell them to. Ill  be replacing some seals and gaskets.

Quote from: Nvy on February  3, 2020, 09:49Great progress!

A question tho, how hard is working on the engine? Im thinking if I should do some work myself or I should give it to a shop. Pros - somebody who has seen an engine will work on it, cons - way too expensive and in general wont do very good job as most of the guys are fixing what you tell them to. Ill  be replacing some seals and gaskets.

This is the first engine I have ever built, you have to be very careful in terms of making sure everything is clean coupled with the clearances have to be within spec. Also if you aren't careful you can mess up something and need to replace it so for some parts its fine to work on whereas for other parts its ok to do if you are very careful but might require some specialist tools.

Worth noting that the most complex part of the engine is probably the cylinder head - a lot of parts under tension, the main block is basically just a bucket that holds a spinning crank with rods and pistons - nothing really complex but have critical dimensions and bolts need to be torqued correctly.

I have had the machine shop do some work on my setup:

CSS block upgrade
Hone of bores
Piston ring gapping (actually cheaper for them to do it vs my buy the tool)

Everything else I am doing myself but checking all measurements and taking my time, you can find the service manual online and its step by step.

Just working on the cylinder head removing carbon, almost there, I have booked a week off in a couple of weeks time where I plan to assemble most of the engine, should have the main block together with sump etc and the cylinder head together, will then start measuring bucket to cam clearances next to see if I need different buckets.

Come on mitch we allllllll want pictures 😂

Sounds like it's going well anyhow.

Quote from: Gaz2405 on February  9, 2020, 18:24Come on mitch we allllllll want pictures 😂

Sounds like it's going well anyhow.

Not really a huge amount to see apart from some blocks of metal with some bolts sticking out of them lol will post up some photos once I get a few more parts together

Slight issue come across last night, wristpins are too long for the pistons - looks like the pins I have with the pistons are correct on the spec sheet but too long for the custom pistons. I spoke with the engineering shop that ordered up the Traum pistons and they are sorting it - new pins are already on their way free of charge.

I was starting to fit the wirelocs to the pistons but instead I took a bit of time to quickly smooth out the exhaust ports - will be looking to keep the intake runners stock but polish up the exhaust runners. Managed to removed the casting marks etc within the exhaust runners yesterday, I am keeping away from any of the bowl or other turns as I can really mess them up if not careful.

I am taking the gearbox to be upgraded with JUBU gears on Monday over to Rogue motorsports, I am going to look to upgrade the cylinder head this coming week as well with the full supertech valvetrain as I have now ported the exhaust runners.

Will then fit the cams to the head and check to see how many more buckets I am going to be needing!

Also plan to wire in the switches for launch control etc to the ECU as well, might also be able to do some paint correction if the weather holds!

Pistons and rods are assembled, just ordered a tapered piston ring compressor as I tried the old ratchet type and was concerned it might break a ring etc.

Have also lapped the valves into the head and removed the old oil stem seals and fitted new ones, next step with the head is fitting the valve springs to then be able to check the clearances under the cams etc.

I am hoping to get the pistons in as soon as the taper ring compressor arrives, I can then refit the oil pickup, baffle plate and seal up the bottom end and put the block to one side.

New wheels and tyres have also been fitted, went with a set of JR3 15x7 all round running the new Toyo TR1 195/50/15 on the front, 225/50/15 on the rear. The tyres are 20mm narrower both front and back from the Silverstone performance 17" rims I was running, ride is quieter and more confortable, currently set to 32psi but will look to experiment as it doesn't feel quite as planted.

Good work those tapered ring compressors are good we recently got one at work for the old Aston engines and once you get hang of it seems much easier than tightening up the old clamp type.

Hope those TR1 are better than old T1R which were awful floaty tyres, ive seen much better reports on the R1 so hopefully once scrubbed in will be much better, drop your front pressure to 26-28psi though as 32 is too high for front on these cars which wont be helping.

Quote from: thetyrant on March  3, 2020, 08:13Good work those tapered ring compressors are good we recently got one at work for the old Aston engines and once you get hang of it seems much easier than tightening up the old clamp type.

Hope those TR1 are better than old T1R which were awful floaty tyres, ive seen much better reports on the R1 so hopefully once scrubbed in will be much better, drop your front pressure to 26-28psi though as 32 is too high for front on these cars which wont be helping.

Yeah I tried to fit one of the pistons with the clamping sort but it didn't really work and didn't want to damage the rings as they were filed to fit etc - although not cheap the taper ring compression would be cheaper than if I were to break a set of rings and need to get new rings, ring file and the time etc and then still have a possibility to break the rings.

The TR1 seem to be getting some better reviews, they won't be perfect in the wet but drove the car to and from work yesterday in the rain and then dry roads on the way home and it was fine.

Will look to play around with pressures, only fitted the alloys over the weekend so was taking it steady owing to the fact they were new tyres not scrubbed in plus the need to make sure that the wheels were retorqued after a few miles etc.

Will try the OEM spect of 26psi front and 32psi rear, only set them to 32psi so I could just get some miles on the car - will then see how that feels.

Pistons are now in the block, just need to torque up the conrod bolts after I reclean the bolts and apply the specific grease to them to ensure proper torque etc. Took a bit of time to get everything right as the conrod bearings are indexed to the direction of the bearing in the block, meaning that the conrods need to be indexed to the piston and then the piston indexed to the block to have the intake on the correct side etc.

The gearbox has also been fully rebuilt and will be collecting that hopefully next week, next on the list for the block is the oil pickup, windage tray, other bolts between the block halves then rear main seal and sump to seal up the bottom end of the engine.

The dividerless OEM manifold has arrived in the UK, just need to pay customs on it etc but at least its almost here, still need to buy a clutch but will probably go with a competition clutch stage 3 as it should be able to hold the upper levels of torque (just) but be far more drivable than a stage 4.

Also need to buy a Bosch doughnut knock sensor (basically a wideband knock sensor) to fit to the block whilst its out as its impossible to get to with it in the car, will probably need to swap over the connector on the stock loom.

Conrods are now torqued and angled, just need to fit the oil pickup tube and can then seal up the bottom end with the Moroso sump.

Next on the list is fitting the valves to the cylinder head, can then check the clearance with the cam and valve to see if I have the buckets I need or if I need to swap more around - I have a used set coming so hopefully the 2 sets of buckets will make 1 good set!

All valves are now in the head with the Supertech dual springs and valves, have put the buckets and Piper stage 2 FI cams in to check clearances and they are far too large. I have 32 buckets to chose from but might have to use the bucket bank - I am going to check with Piper cams to check what clearance they would run them at but I have a feeling I am going to need replacement buckets.

Plan to get myself a 0-25mm micrometer (only have a 25-50mm) to check every single bucket for size (as the OEM bucket number won't be accurate anymore due to wear).

I do however know that the 2JZ and 3S engines (and others) use the 1zz buckets as upgrades as they are solid, whereas the other engines run a shimmed bucket so I could look to convert over to shimmed buckets or see if I can get lash caps from supertech.

Quote from: m1tch on April  3, 2020, 07:54All valves are now in the head with the Supertech dual springs and valves, have put the buckets and Piper stage 2 FI cams in to check clearances and they are far too large. I have 32 buckets to chose from but might have to use the bucket bank - I am going to check with Piper cams to check what clearance they would run them at but I have a feeling I am going to need replacement buckets.

Plan to get myself a 0-25mm micrometer (only have a 25-50mm) to check every single bucket for size (as the OEM bucket number won't be accurate anymore due to wear).

I do however know that the 2JZ and 3S engines (and others) use the 1zz buckets as upgrades as they are solid, whereas the other engines run a shimmed bucket so I could look to convert over to shimmed buckets or see if I can get lash caps from supertech.

What size are our Mazda counterpart's buckets? I believe they use shims.

But, as you say, people switch to 1zz buckets and coilpacks with massive power so I wouldn't worry about it.

As for the clearance, ask @Call the midlife what he's running on his Stg2 non-FI.

Quote from: shnazzle on April  3, 2020, 08:26

Quote from: m1tch on April  3, 2020, 07:54All valves are now in the head with the Supertech dual springs and valves, have put the buckets and Piper stage 2 FI cams in to check clearances and they are far too large. I have 32 buckets to chose from but might have to use the bucket bank - I am going to check with Piper cams to check what clearance they would run them at but I have a feeling I am going to need replacement buckets.

Plan to get myself a 0-25mm micrometer (only have a 25-50mm) to check every single bucket for size (as the OEM bucket number won't be accurate anymore due to wear).

I do however know that the 2JZ and 3S engines (and others) use the 1zz buckets as upgrades as they are solid, whereas the other engines run a shimmed bucket so I could look to convert over to shimmed buckets or see if I can get lash caps from supertech.

What size are our Mazda counterpart's buckets? I believe they use shims.

But, as you say, people switch to 1zz buckets and coilpacks with massive power so I wouldn't worry about it.

As for the clearance, ask @Call the midlife what he's running on his Stg2 non-FI.

Looking at the Supertech site as they do cam followers as well, the same cam follower bucket can be fitted to:

Toyota 2JZ / 3SGTE / 1ZZ / Scion/ Tacomo 2RZ-3RZ /RB26

So it looks like I have a fair range of choices of engine to take them from, will probably be simpler to go with the 1zz shimless though. Might just move all of the buckets on the intake side over to the exhaust side which might sort that out and then need to get other buckets for the intake side.

Quote from: m1tch on April  3, 2020, 08:35

Quote from: shnazzle on April  3, 2020, 08:26

Quote from: m1tch on April  3, 2020, 07:54All valves are now in the head with the Supertech dual springs and valves, have put the buckets and Piper stage 2 FI cams in to check clearances and they are far too large. I have 32 buckets to chose from but might have to use the bucket bank - I am going to check with Piper cams to check what clearance they would run them at but I have a feeling I am going to need replacement buckets.

Plan to get myself a 0-25mm micrometer (only have a 25-50mm) to check every single bucket for size (as the OEM bucket number won't be accurate anymore due to wear).

I do however know that the 2JZ and 3S engines (and others) use the 1zz buckets as upgrades as they are solid, whereas the other engines run a shimmed bucket so I could look to convert over to shimmed buckets or see if I can get lash caps from supertech.

What size are our Mazda counterpart's buckets? I believe they use shims.

But, as you say, people switch to 1zz buckets and coilpacks with massive power so I wouldn't worry about it.

As for the clearance, ask @Call the midlife what he's running on his Stg2 non-FI.

Looking at the Supertech site as they do cam followers as well, the same cam follower bucket can be fitted to:

Toyota 2JZ / 3SGTE / 1ZZ / Scion/ Tacomo 2RZ-3RZ /RB26

So it looks like I have a fair range of choices of engine to take them from, will probably be simpler to go with the 1zz shimless though. Might just move all of the buckets on the intake side over to the exhaust side which might sort that out and then need to get other buckets for the intake side.

You need to be a hell of a lot more precise than that. So you're right, it's a bucket-bank deal with full valve clearance job. Definitely do not just chuck the buckets around and hope for the best. A bit loose is one thing. Too tight can do some damage. Especially seeing as what you're intending to do with this poor block

Quote from: shnazzle on April  3, 2020, 09:07

Quote from: m1tch on April  3, 2020, 08:35

Quote from: shnazzle on April  3, 2020, 08:26

Quote from: m1tch on April  3, 2020, 07:54All valves are now in the head with the Supertech dual springs and valves, have put the buckets and Piper stage 2 FI cams in to check clearances and they are far too large. I have 32 buckets to chose from but might have to use the bucket bank - I am going to check with Piper cams to check what clearance they would run them at but I have a feeling I am going to need replacement buckets.

Plan to get myself a 0-25mm micrometer (only have a 25-50mm) to check every single bucket for size (as the OEM bucket number won't be accurate anymore due to wear).

I do however know that the 2JZ and 3S engines (and others) use the 1zz buckets as upgrades as they are solid, whereas the other engines run a shimmed bucket so I could look to convert over to shimmed buckets or see if I can get lash caps from supertech.

What size are our Mazda counterpart's buckets? I believe they use shims.

But, as you say, people switch to 1zz buckets and coilpacks with massive power so I wouldn't worry about it.

As for the clearance, ask @Call the midlife what he's running on his Stg2 non-FI.

Looking at the Supertech site as they do cam followers as well, the same cam follower bucket can be fitted to:

Toyota 2JZ / 3SGTE / 1ZZ / Scion/ Tacomo 2RZ-3RZ /RB26

So it looks like I have a fair range of choices of engine to take them from, will probably be simpler to go with the 1zz shimless though. Might just move all of the buckets on the intake side over to the exhaust side which might sort that out and then need to get other buckets for the intake side.

You need to be a hell of a lot more precise than that. So you're right, it's a bucket-bank deal with full valve clearance job. Definitely do not just chuck the buckets around and hope for the best. A bit loose is one thing. Too tight can do some damage. Especially seeing as what you're intending to do with this poor block

I have just ordered another micrometer, will be checking to see the actual buckets I have now that they are slightly worn - if I have say a 40 bucket but its worn to a 30 bucket, I could sort it out be getting a 50 bucket. Might also get a few other feeler gauges, I have a set of 10 including a 0.05mm feeler, was slightly disheartened when I got out the 0.3mm feeler gauge (maximum stock on the intake side) and it just slid in without issue.

I specifically grabbed all of the higher bucket sizes I had (low 40 buckets) and put them in the intake side as I knew that the clearance needed to be tighter on the intake. As those are out of spec they might work much better on the exhaust side which means I would need new buckets on the intake side and used buckets on the exhaust side.

I do need to check with Piper cams though as they might ask for additional clearance due to the cam profile vs lower lift stock.

We've already had some discussion on the book of faceless about the issues but as discussed you can't really advance your build now until you know the Piper clearances, the Crowers were quite different to standard to allow for the fatter lobes.
It's a long, painstaking process, starting from scratch but once you know all your starting point gaps and sizes of all your available buckets it just comes down to simple mathematics.
Starting gap, size of current bucket, value required to hit the clearance requirement.
You've got an amount of tolerance but bear in mind the nearer (tighter) the better as they'll all settle in a bit once you're up and running.
Remember if you're not measuring the gap at the sweet spot it will make a lot of difference to your results also.
Good luck.👍🏻

Quote from: Call the midlife! on April  3, 2020, 09:42We've already had some discussion on the book of faceless about the issues but as discussed you can't really advance your build now until you know the Piper clearances, the Crowers were quite different to standard to allow for the fatter lobes.
It's a long, painstaking process, starting from scratch but once you know all your starting point gaps and sizes of all your available buckets it just comes down to simple mathematics.
Starting gap, size of current bucket, value required to hit the clearance requirement.
You've got an amount of tolerance but bear in mind the nearer (tighter) the better as they'll all settle in a bit once you're up and running.
Remember if you're not measuring the gap at the sweet spot it will make a lot of difference to your results also.
Good luck.👍🏻

Indeed, will wait on what Piper cams come back with - might be perfectly in spec for their cams but just wanted to gauge what I have at the moment. Will aim to get the clearance on the tighter side of centre as everything will start to wear in and will also mean there will be a longer interval before they are out of spec as well - shame the tip of the valve wasn't 0.2mm longer!

I will make a note as to which buckets I have already fitted so that once I get that smaller micrometer I can see what I have in the separator tray in terms of other buckets. I think the highest bucket number I have is something like a 57, I haven't fitted that, gone with '40' to '46' buckets on the intake side - good news is that the clearances seem fairly even so I am guessing the buckets are evenly worn and the camshaft is torqued down correctly - no odd high clearances. Its going to be a long process but that's ok, i'm not rushing this at all

Next on the list of the build is to seal up the Moroso pan, torque the oil heat exchanger and filter bolt down and then probably fit the main oil seal and oil pump (with new OEM gasket). I think I actually have 4 oil pumps now, 2 used ones and I think 1 aftermarket new and one OEM new - can you guess which one I will be fitted?

Can also prep a few other parts such as the rocker cover for paint, fit the engine deck dowel pins and clean up any engine covers whilst I wait for a few bits.

I might also pull the front bumper off the car and fit a front lip, coupled with swapping out the front foglights - driver side one has failed at some point and the coating has come off the inside. I have 2 new foglights to fit and am covering them in yellow lens film for a more JDM look (can easily remove if needed).

The stock ECU is also plugged back in ready for an MOT at some point, less of a faff to run the stock ECU for emissions than moving around wideband O2 sensors. The MOT takes the lambda reading post cat, my wideband is pre cat so the emissions in terms of HC and CO are fine but the lambda is off. The stock ECU runs the engine rich which then leans out after the cat for a lambda of 1 - my ECU reads pre cat meaning that its perfect at the engine but lean at the exhaust tip.

Also have my fully upgraded gearbox ready for collection from Rogue motorsports when they reopen - JUBU upgraded 3rd and 4th, one syncho was slightly worn but was replaced, internal plates have also been strengthened slightly - should be able to hold the torque now.

All sounds good, just remember to turn the shafts in situ with the spanner, constantly stripping the shafts out just to rotate them to check gaps will wear your cap bolts out and you're not guaranteed to be seating the lobe bases in the right position as they move slightly when you torque the caps up.
If the valvetrain is assembled at the moment then take a fresh set of measurements by turning the shafts and making sure the buckets are moving with the springs before measuring.
Then when you get your new micrometer strip out any buckets not in spec and measure them all with the same micrometer, using the same method.
The instructions on the micrometer will probably say to measure against the ratchet setting, technically true but the buckets in the club bank (if indeed there is a club bank left anymore) are measured a bit tighter than that, to first resistance, so probably better to use that method.
Turning those springs by hand on the bench isn't much of a laugh but it's the only way, just keep a bare minimum of oil on the faces to avoid gouging and you'll be sweet.

Quote from: Call the midlife! on April  3, 2020, 10:41All sounds good, just remember to turn the shafts in situ with the spanner, constantly stripping the shafts out just to rotate them to check gaps will wear your cap bolts out and you're not guaranteed to be seating the lobe bases in the right position as they move slightly when you torque the caps up.
If the valvetrain is assembled at the moment then take a fresh set of measurements by turning the shafts and making sure the buckets are moving with the springs before measuring.
Then when you get your new micrometer strip out any buckets not in spec and measure them all with the same micrometer, using the same method.
The instructions on the micrometer will probably say to measure against the ratchet setting, technically true but the buckets in the club bank (if indeed there is a club bank left anymore) are measured a bit tighter than that, to first resistance, so probably better to use that method.
Turning those springs by hand on the bench isn't much of a laugh but it's the only way, just keep a bare minimum of oil on the faces to avoid gouging and you'll be sweet.

Will try that at lunch, not got the sprockets on the camshafts but noticed the hex part way along the shaft last night - will rotate the camshafts a bit and see if the clearances change. Agree with not really wanting to keep retorquing the bolts!

You'll have to disassemble it enough times as it is to swap the buckets around etc but just try and avoid unnecessary times.
Maybe use your old bolts for as long as they keep reaching torque, you're only looking at around 12-20 Nm across the different ones if I remember right?
Don't forget you'll have to take the cams out to refit the head to the block also so leave all your final lubing until then.
I forgot that bit and that's how I ended up wrongly fitting two buckets in the end as they'd stuck to the shafts with the assembly lube and pulled out.
And I lazily put them back where I thought they'd come from without actually checking.