My true love & my 1st "driving-in-wet" experie

Anonymous · October 22, 2003, 14:47

I bought my roadster 3 months ago, and have had an amazing blast over the summer, and still learning it capabilities in the dry, pushing a little bit more and more each time on (empty) roads that I know, til i found the limit, learning all about what it means to drive a RWD car, and it's been amazing, I love my car so very much. I'm a thrills kinda guy, and I'm a VERY easily bored person by nature, to the point of torture-by-boredom sometimes! But I havent got anything remotely near bored since buying and while driving this little beauty. I imagine over time I will be looking for a little more acceleration but hey, that's what the new turbo's for right??!

So today is the 1st time I've driven it in the wet, and oh deary me, none of what you lot have warned is false, and consequently, in wet conditions I will only be found driving like a complete and utter pussy, nay a granny, nay a granny-pussy!! I love my '2 too much to do other wise. I remember after reading all these driving-in-wet tips/warnings, and someone said "yeah but don't have too much respect for it", to this I say pish and bollox, unless you're an experienced rally driver, or on a private road, have the respect.
BTW I'm only talking about bends here, straight roads, fine, same as any other car in the wet, but roundabouts-et-al, whole 'nother ball game!

For those couple of guys freshly bought their 2's, do be very careful in the wet, and don't let it put you off the car, cos on dry roads, it is amazing fun, not to mention all the other good stuff that comes with it

Slacey · October 22, 2003, 14:57

I've personally never had any problems in the wet, but I'm known for my curses round here, so I have probably just knackered myself! s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

Tem · October 23, 2003, 06:19

Quote from: "Stevo"For those couple of guys freshly bought their 2's, do be very careful in the wet

Noooo, don't do that, do the exact opposite!

Go find a parking lot or something with plenty of space and throw the car around till you lose it. At least you'll know what happens and when...

Then do it again...and again...till you don't lose it anymore s:)

s:) That's when the fun starts...I'm pretty much drifting all the time when it gets wet, cause it's just so dman fun s8)

s8)

Anonymous · October 23, 2003, 07:04

Over here there are very few unmolested car parks around. Now they put kerbs, trees, lamposts and the like all over them.... to stop max muppets and more dubious characters from getting up to all sorts of trouble in their cars.

And even if you did find one, I wouldn't be surprised if either you were filmed on CCTV, and then later visited by the plod, or someone called them while you were spinning around.

Tem · October 23, 2003, 08:00

Yeah, "normal" parking lots are full of stuff over here as well. But there are bigger lots without any obstacles in nearby industrial areas, which are deserted after 6pm...no one really cares about a quick spin in there.

Anonymous · October 23, 2003, 08:26

Book yourself into a driver training day like some of us here have done - that way you can find the limits of the car on a nice open airfield, and then get shown how to control the car at the same time! s:D

s:D

Anonymous · October 23, 2003, 10:03

Quote from: "krisclarkuk"Book yourself into a driver training day like some of us here have done - that way you can find the limits of the car on a nice open airfield, and then get shown how to control the car at the same time! s:D s:D

Well yeah, there's definitely that, a great idea, but then I'd never take it to the public roads myself, unless someone could guarantee I had empty roads and no curbs/ditches to deal with.
But hey, that's just me!

Anonymous · October 23, 2003, 10:17

Quote from: "Stevo"but then I'd never take it to the public roads myself

sorry, what do you mean by that - i dont understand?

Anonymous · October 23, 2003, 11:08

Quote from: "Stevo"learning it capabilities in the dry, pushing a little bit more and more each time on (empty) roads that I know, til i found the limit, learning all about what it means to drive a RWD car,

Quotekrisclarkuk wrote:
Book yourself into a driver training day like some of us here have done - that way you can find the limits of the car on a nice open airfield, and then get shown how to control the car at the same time!

QuoteWell yeah, there's definitely that, a great idea, but then I'd never take it to the public roads myself, unless someone could guarantee I had empty roads and no curbs/ditches to deal with.
But hey, that's just me!

I "THINK" that's what he meant[/quote]

Anonymous · October 23, 2003, 11:19

on i see!

still think its going to be worth every penny of this driver training day. s:D

s:D

Anonymous · October 23, 2003, 15:27

Put in basic terms (I hope) - yep, agree, driver training day good, but for me, on public wet roads with other cars about, I wont be trying find the limits I can push on twists/turns. And even after a training day i wouldn't be attempting to see if I could pull off that move I learnt on the training day out on the "public wet roads with other cars about".

Hey look, I'm 31 tomorrow, meaning "well into my thirties", I can feel this thing called responsibility creeping all over me like a rash....why even soon I might agree to marriage & kids with the missus!!

So yeah, in summary - whatever, forget I even spoke/wrote

Anonymous · October 23, 2003, 15:52

Quote from: "Stevo"Put in basic terms (I hope) - yep, agree, driver training day good, but for me, on public wet roads with other cars about, I wont be trying find the limits I can push on twists/turns. And even after a training day i wouldn't be attempting to see if I could pull off that move I learnt on the training day out on the "public wet roads with other cars about".

Ahh, but i wont either - remember, i caused £1400 worth of damage to my car going less than 30! i didnt expect the car to do what it did, and maybe with a little bit of training in the handling of a rear wheel drive car i 'may' have been able to make it less painfull on the wallet. It was in the wet, i was not driving fast or aggressivly, it just steped out and bam!!!

I dont think the idea of the course is to see how much faster you can make yourself on a public road, more how to make you drive safer on a public road with your car.

Anonymous · October 23, 2003, 17:07

Quote from: "krisclarkuk"It was in the wet, i was not driving fast or aggressivly, it just steped out and bam!!!

You wasn't driving fast, fair enough, but you must've been driving too fast for that particular situation, even if too fast was 15mph (or whatever it was).
If it takes a course for you to suss out these things then fair enough.

Alternatively you can just (to quote my initial post) be careful in the wet!

Naa, in fairness, I have no idea as to the nature of the course, but you know, dont mean to wind you up KC and all that, but can't leave it alone!

Anonymous · October 23, 2003, 17:54

I think there was desiel on the road, which as you will know, you cant see... so when i came off the roundabout the car just went bye-bye... tell me you could have got out of that situation.

Tem · October 23, 2003, 20:23

Quote from: "krisclarkuk"tell me you could have got out of that situation.

I could've gotten... s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Seriously, no idea...I've lost the ass on wet and dry roads. You gotta act pretty damn fast to catch it on MR2, but so far I've managed to do it.

It's like...with normal fwd car things go like:
1, 2, 3, losing traction, 4, 5, still sliding...sowhat...just slow down a bit

And a normal rwd:
1, 2, 3, losing traction, 4, put down the mobile, better fix it now, before it spins

And a normal mid-engined:
1, 2, 3, still lots of grip, 4, 5, stil gripping, 6, 7, stiiiil...shit, it just spun...

Anonymous · October 23, 2003, 21:16

Quote from: "Tem"I could've gotten... s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Seriously, no idea...I've lost the ass on wet and dry roads. You gotta act pretty damn fast to catch it on MR2, but so far I've managed to do it.

It's like...with normal fwd car things go like:
1, 2, 3, losing traction, 4, 5, still sliding...sowhat...just slow down a bit

And a normal rwd:
1, 2, 3, losing traction, 4, put down the mobile, better fix it now, before it spins

And a normal mid-engined:
1, 2, 3, still lots of grip, 4, 5, stil gripping, 6, 7, stiiiil...shit, it just spun...

Well put Tem. The type of tyres you've got on will make a big difference to how much time you have to catch it. I very nearly had a very nasty moment in the wet on the original Yokos but with the Toyos it's much easy to detect when the rear starts to slip and therefore much easier to catch it.

--H--

Chris · October 23, 2003, 22:03

exactly - there's that nail getting hit again... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

If there's anything that I can learn at northweald around the 6/7 point to help realise what's about to happen, then i'll be happy!

i'm guessing blatting around with music blaring doesn't help you 'hear the road' (well i know what i mean s:!: :!: s:!: s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ) either!!

zud · October 24, 2003, 09:06

Just to add my 2p....
I don't think its just about speed... technique comes into it as well. I'm not talking about learning techniques to drive faster in the winter... I'm with Steve there and will take it steady regardless. But poor technique can unbalance the car, and maybe some people will skid when driving at a speed that is plenty slow enough for others. So I'm hoping the course will improve my technique such that "driving slow enough for the conditions" isn't then spoilt by me doing something silly!

Secondly, I guess there's always the unexpected... e.g. driving plenty slow enough for a corner, and then a dog runs out, or another car swerves. In those situations, "slow enough for the conditions" might not be "slow enough for evasive action". Of course, you could take this to the extreme and say that we should all be driving slow enough that we'll never be in danger of skidding whatever happens. Maybe. I'm not convinced I'm that clever, so I'm hoping the course will help if I've not foreseen the unexpected.

And thirdly, it should be a blast! Despite being old, and having the responsility of wife, kids, dog and mortgage... it should still be great fun chucking the car about in a safe environment, and meeting some of the guys from the forum.

Ooops, that turned into a bit of an essay!... sorry!

juansolo · October 24, 2003, 10:27

Quote from: "Hardcore"The type of tyres you've got on will make a big difference to how much time you have to catch it

Absolutely right.

There's far more to it than this but: Grippier tyres are generally more snappy and less grippy tyres tend to give a little more warning before they let go. Finding a tyre that has both decent levels of grip and progression is what you're after. But that again is complicated by what you plan to do with the car... Grip is not always good.

juansolo · October 24, 2003, 10:31

Righty, I've charged up the video camera and am going to Anglesey tonight. I'll endeavour to get some fottage of slideage (I usually CBA but I'll see what I can do). Much to the detriment of my really quite shafted Yokonova's but all in the interests of science you understand s:)

s:)

Anonymous · October 24, 2003, 11:47

Post soon. Will be interesting to see that.........

juansolo · October 24, 2003, 13:49

Will do. Generally CBA with in-car fottage but I'll see if I can't angle it so you can see what I'm doing.

Anglesey is perfect for this as you've got a high speed first corner (70+ double apex) which can be entertaining on the limit followed by a 90 degree right that you can trail brake into. After this is the most frustrating bit of the circuit in a Mr2, an uphill section that's niether 2nd or 3rd gear. You sound like you're going faster in 2nd but on a test day I've done there I found 3rd is slightly quicker. Then you've got a left right flick which is great fun and then a short drag up to one of the sharpest hairpins you'll find on a uk circuit. That's an issue in itself as the 2 hasn't really got the grunt to kick the backend round on power so you have to find alternative means... Finally a left-right-left (on the power from the second corner on) back onto the main straight.

It's a very short lap, just over a mile and I get around it in 57.5 in the Mr2 (test day, not a track day). 55 is about average for an Elise, 53 for a cooking one with LSS or Nitrons and sticky rubber. Elise-R's are under 50 and Caterfields are in the 48's IIRC. Quickest thing around there out of the people I know was an Cat R500 at 46.something! Now we have a couple of Radical SR3's in our midst I expect that one to fall. Puts it all into perspective really.

I'll do a few proper laps then a few gooning ones. Proper laps are *really* boring to watch because on camera they seem really slow.

Anonymous · October 24, 2003, 15:17

Sounds wicked!!! I REALLY need to take the '2 toa track day. Really do......can't wait for your post. ANY footage is good footage. I love that kind of stuff. Sure a lot of others on here do too!!

juansolo · October 24, 2003, 15:45

That gives me an idea...

I'll post something over in events in a second...

juansolo · October 25, 2003, 18:30

Interesting fottage on the cam'. Torrential rain all morning made for VERY interesting conditions (standing water, little streams accross the circuit) to the point that the track war closed for 1/2 hr to clear it down a bit at one point.

Never let it be said you stop learning at trackdays also. I've been doing them for 5-6 years now and I learnt more about wet weather driving in one morning than all the time up to this point. Put it this way, up to now I've done 6 trackdays with the Mr2 and only spun it once. Today I fell off a grand total of 5 times. This doesn't normally happen to me s:oops: :oops: s:oops: By the end of the morning I was sooooooo much better it was untrue. I blame MrT who put faaaar too much pressure in the tyres resulting in much understeerage. 26 front and 32 rear seems pretty spot on for the Novas.

Anyhow one good thing about wet trackdays is almost zero tyrewear and the fact that as you're not hammering it you can stay out a looooooong time and not knacker yourself or the car. Cue 45 minute sessions! s:D

s:D

I was kinda worried I wouldn't get some dry laps in to show you the ciruit but it dryed up nicely after lunch so I went out and drove properly for a bit.

All in all a VERY good day. Car is a little muddy however... s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Fottage to follow after I've had a well deserved hot bath.