My true love & my 1st "driving-in-wet" experie

MadMigMR2 · October 28, 2003, 16:49

Quote from: "juansolo"It's a cracking circuit. Plenty of runoff everywhere apart from the hairpin, where in the conditions at the weekend, I wasn't taking any chances. I believe it did claim an over enthusiastic Elise, though there was little damage.

Back to the moddage, I think I should clarify where I'm coming from as on re-reading my above replies they do seem a little harsh.

I have a slightly different attitude to most people here when it comes to modding cars. It's not that I'm right or they are, it's just a differing opinion. Personally I'm of the belief that the best performance mod you can do to a car is to uprate the driver. The beauty of this is that it's not money you never get back as with most car mods and you can take it to any car you own.

I'm not saying that you're not changing or improving your cars for the better as you more than likely are, just that I'm not particulaly bothered about being that much quicker than anyone or anything else. It's quite quick enough for me and IMO very well set up out of the box. If there was anything fundamentally wrong with it I would sort it (like the tyres which are simply not up to track use).

It does help that I do have another car that I *do* modify rediculously heavily so I do understand where you're coming from. But the nature of that car requires very high levels of maintenance anyhow. It goes with the territory and mostly I enjoy it. I tend to see the Mr2 as the complete opposite of that though. A car I can simply get in and drive and not have to worry about it. That's all.

Hope that makes it a little clearer where I'm coming from.

Yes it does!!!

It's simple has this.
How many MR2 owners know how to drift?

Portugal is a small place with very few MR2.
But the funny thing is that the persons that i know that own a MR2, are aware that this is a FUN car and that the rear end likes to play (even more in wet)

But from all the mr2 owners i know, only 4 persons know how to play with the car and do some cool drifts without loosing control of the car.

The first experience i had on the passenger side on a MR2 was with a owner of one of the first MR2 that come to Portugal.
He bought is Car in August 2000 and i only met him in April 2001 when i bought my MR2.

He is a really good driver and know how to play with the MR2, the same way you do.

That small trip on the passenger side included 4 fast and crazy drifts in 2 roundabout where the only thing i saw was the center of the roundabout and a big lateral g pressure.

I'm far to do that on my car.

I prefer wet conditions to have some fun.

And with the gt300 install and larger wheels and offset 0, the amount of extra grip i will have will be more dificult to drift the car, but i will manage that s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

I'm thinking on install a extra water deposit that sends water to the rear tires when i want to have fun s:wink: :wink: s:wink: (JUST KIDING)

I will try to find my videos from the karting track day i had and post here

Anonymous · October 29, 2003, 18:20

This morning driving to work and minding my own business. Stopped at some lights on a major road, three lanes across. It was raining, I accelerated off the line and moved over to the outside lane as I have done many times- back end flipped out and I span 360 in front of all of the other rush hour traffic and came to a stop (facing forward again) up against the kerb!!!! Intitial shock turned to embarrassment when I realised no major damage done.

It was a complete miracle that I didn't hit anybody/thing and will only need my wheels realigned - body work was untouched fortunately however, the front left alloy has been scraped on the rim.

The worst thing is that this happened well within legal limits for the road and also within driving cababilities that I thought I had. Until you spin your Mr'2 you can't really appreciate just how easy it is to do - and the conditions only have to be slightly wet. Please, please, please take it easy as you may not get off as luckily as I did.

I'm gonna be driving like my dad for the next few months....

Anonymous · October 30, 2003, 10:20

The road was wet, went around a roundabout have seriously damaged the 2. The whole drivers side is shagged and the rear axle is. A cheaper car would probably have been a write-off, and it yet may be so but am awaiting the decision s:evil: :evil: s:evil:

Seriously pissed-off at the moment, more at my own inability to control it.

BUT PLEASE TAKE HEED OF THE COMMENTS IN THIS THREAD! I DIDN'T!

Anonymous · October 30, 2003, 10:24

see (people that had a dig at me)... its not just me that lost the back end of my car at low speeds....!

Anonymous · October 30, 2003, 10:28

Sorry to hear that Jag. Wet weather and lots of damaged '2. Be careful.

Comer · October 30, 2003, 10:46

Yep it's becoming common. Last night I took a very sharp 90 degree bend (on a road called Winding Hill s:shock: :shock: s:shock: ) at just under my normal (dry surface) speed for that bend.

But the car wanted to go straight on and had a mind of it's own, I managed to stop the slide and correct it in time but the surfaces are very greasy out there where the leaves have been sitting.

I've got to get rid of these Yoko's and slow down of course. s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Anonymous · October 30, 2003, 13:48

does it matter on how heavy-footed you are with the throttle to make it spin out?

Fingers crossed it wont happen to me, I need all the advice I can take to avoid this pitfall

Anonymous · October 30, 2003, 13:52

Quote from: "elfin"does it matter on how heavy-footed you are with the throttle to make it spin out?

nope s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

Anonymous · October 30, 2003, 13:56

Quote from: "krisclarkuk"
Quote from: "elfin"does it matter on how heavy-footed you are with the throttle to make it spin out?

nope s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

I agree with kris. Best bet is just go slower and be smoother.

And then do a driver training course so you know what to do when it all goes wrong.

Tem · October 30, 2003, 14:16

Quote from: "elfin"does it matter on how heavy-footed you are with the throttle to make it spin out?

Actually...if you're around the grip limit on a curve, lifting the throttle is one of the best ways to spin...

Anonymous · October 30, 2003, 17:24

Absolutely cacking myself driving home just then, heavy rain and a bit windy. I think reading these horror stories makes you even more self conscience of spinning out under these conditions

Anonymous · October 30, 2003, 18:19

Quote from: "elfin"heavy rain and a bit windy.

Yup, it's evil weather out there.

Anonymous · October 31, 2003, 16:02

Hi Guys new to your forum, but thought I'd stick my two penneth in s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

I've not even got my two yet, it arrives in 3 weeks, but I have just offloaded a 320BHP Sti Impreza, and I can honestly say the most important piece of handling advice is.....
Slow in fast out! Even in a rear wheel drive turning on the throttle if you go in fast and your back end moves out, you may be in control but what about the bus full of old age pensioners on the other side of the road coming the opposite way.
Unless your on a track or you've just been caught by diesel/ice on the road its just not worth it. The other thing of course is some of you guys have LSD's on your cars which makes another huge alteration to the character of your traction, and produces another set of rules to power in turns.
If you really want to drive a rear wheeler properly go to a rally school, someone like Phil Price, and listen to what they say about handling a rear wheeler, its scary s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
As I said just my two penneth s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
p.s. Love some of the informative threads on the site, and you all seem to be really helpful people.

Anonymous · October 31, 2003, 16:05

Quote from: "adair69"The other thing of course is some of you guys have LSD's on your cars which makes another huge alteration to the character of your traction, and produces another set of rules to power in turns.

What sort of difference/rules? I just drive slowly, would appreciate any advice.

Anonymous · October 31, 2003, 17:17

LSD's are very cool thouroughbred diffs. If you look at scoobynet you'll find a number of latter day Sti owners going backwards into hedges because they altered the handling characteristic of the subaru so much, from the classic they were used to.
If you go into an island (or roundabout depends on where you live s:lol: :lol: s:lol: ) and you were to drive spiritedly around, the LSD is putting power to the outside wheel effectively driving you into the corner. Imagine changing gear (yes lots did this) and suddenly the power no longer is being channelled out to those wheels s:o

s:o because the LSD is only doing its job under load, then the power traction and whole set up of the car is unbalanced. In these 4 wheel drives a characteristic was a S shaped move on the road, and in more extreme cases a backwards ride into the hedge. The LSD helps the car to remain tighter and disperse the power to where its required, but only while you put power to the wheels s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
p.s. This does not mean you should keep the peddle down hard on corners, it just means if you make sudden throttle moves, as woth any car it will be .... err unsettled s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Anonymous · November 2, 2003, 21:55

Since the MR2 can be difficult to handle in the wet, why don't toyota fit Vehicle stabilty control etc to the manual version of the MR2? (if that does actually help the handling of the SMT in the wet)

SteveJ · November 2, 2003, 22:02

Quote from: "Steve"Since the MR2 can be difficult to handle in the wet, why don't toyota fit Vehicle stabilty control etc to the manual version of the MR2? (if that does actually help the handling of the SMT in the wet)

I'm guessing the VSC is only fitted to the SMT beacuse you don't have manual control of the clutch, making it more difficult to control the car once the slide starts - certainly having owned both SMT variants the VSC has stopped me getting in a mess on a number of occasions.

There is one down-side however - when I get back in a pre '03 SMT (ie. mph's tubby SMT) I have a habit of forgetting the VSC isn't there and combined with the turbo I'm quite impressed Martin still has a car s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

Anonymous · November 2, 2003, 22:55

Quote from: "elfin"does it matter on how heavy-footed you are with the throttle to make it spin out?

Fingers crossed it wont happen to me, I need all the advice I can take to avoid this pitfall

Probably stating the obvious here, but for cornering in wet / slippery conditions I always aim to get get my speed sorted before entering the corner ( brakes / gear ), try to keep the speed constant through the corner and don't apply any hard throttle until the wheels are straight again. Not very exciting, but safe ( so far ).

Ally.

mph · November 3, 2003, 09:26

Quote from: "elfin"does it matter on how heavy-footed you are with the throttle to make it spin out?

Heavy-footed and car control do not go together. The sooner you start unlearning being heavy footed the more you'll get out the car. A trip to North Weald sounds in order s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Quote from: "adair69"The other thing of course is some of you guys have LSD's on your cars...

All Roadsters have LSD as standard - Toyota never bothered shouting about it on the originals for some reason.

Quote from: "SteveJ"There is one down-side however - when I get back in a pre '03 SMT (ie. mph's tubby SMT) I have a habit of forgetting the VSC isn't there and combined with the turbo I'm quite impressed Martin still has a car s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

IRTA you're lucky I still let you drive it s:!: :!: s:!:

Tem · November 3, 2003, 09:30

Quote from: "mph"All Roadsters have LSD as standard - Toyota never bothered shouting about it on the originals for some reason.

That's true for european models, but some japanese imports might not have it.
(and none in US, some of them read this board as well s;)

s;) )

filcee · November 3, 2003, 10:45

Quote from: "SteveJ"I'm guessing the VSC is only fitted to the SMT beacuse you don't have manual control of the clutch, making it more difficult to control the car once the slide starts - certainly having owned both SMT variants the VSC has stopped me getting in a mess on a number of occasions.

I have proved my TC light works by being a smart on the throttle on a friends gravel drive, but how do I know the VSC has kicked in? Does another disco light come on in the instrument binnacle?

Just curious - I haven't seen a light, perhaps I'm not trying hard enough s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

juansolo · November 3, 2003, 13:00

Slow In Fast Out is generally the safest way to drive quick on the road. It's also the quickest way to get a lower powered car around a circuit.

Safe because it lessens the chance of you going in too fast and ploughing straight on with a armful of lock doing sweet FA (understeer). This is usually followed by the panic lift on the throttle which causes the weight of the car to move forward over the front wheels, which in turn causes them to grip and the rear to lighten. Hello snap oversteer as the rear trys to overtake the front.

Quick because if you're concentrating on getting your line right you can balance the car and get the power down earlier giving a higher exit speed.

Going slow and powering out of the corner almost eliminates any chance of understeer.

Also, learn to heel and toe as this also stops the rear of the car becoming unsettled under braking.

The LSD fitted to the Mr2 is a Torsen style affair IIRC. Same as you get on some models of MX-5. It's actually a torque biasing diff. If you want to be very afraid there is a big section on differentials on howstuffworks.com including the Torsen white paper (serious brain ache after reading that one!).

Basically it comes down to this: A torque biasing diff is a mechanical device that, as long as there is drive and both wheels have some form of resisitance, works by sending torque to the wheel that has the most grip. It does this to a ratio, usually of around 5:1. Therefore you can send 5 times the torque to an outside wheel under cornering. Beyond this threshold the diff goes 'open' but usually by this time both wheels are spinning anyhow.

They do not work however if there is no resistance on the wheels i.e. one wheel is in the air or on an incredibly slippy surface like ice where the threshold is passed almost instantly.

Torque biasing diffs are superb on road cars as they are silent in operation and reletively maintenance free.

Anonymous · November 3, 2003, 13:05

Quote from: "juansolo"Also, learn to heel and toe as this also stops the rear of the car becoming unsettled under braking.

Im going to be learning this on this training day im doing... but i aint got a clue what it is! s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Whats it all about then?

Anonymous · November 3, 2003, 13:06

Quote from: "krisclarkuk"
Quote from: "juansolo"Also, learn to heel and toe as this also stops the rear of the car becoming unsettled under braking.

Im going to be learning this on this training day im doing... but i aint got a clue what it is! s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Whats it all about then?

My feet are too small to do this.

markiii · November 3, 2003, 13:09

Quote from: "krisclarkuk"
Quote from: "juansolo"Also, learn to heel and toe as this also stops the rear of the car becoming unsettled under braking.

Im going to be learning this on this training day im doing... but i aint got a clue what it is! s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Whats it all about then?

not if your on about north weald you won't.