M1tch's long term 1ZZ build - Project 11

[m1tch]

Regarding clutch options, I have used (with great effect, and mega reliability) ClutchMasters clutches in my old ST205 Celica GT-Four, which was a low 12 second car.
I believe that I had an FX300 holding about 350LBs/Ft torque. I did easily over 200 7,000RPM full bore launches, and I had zero problems with the clutch.

Perhaps you could look at an FX400/FX500 clutch?

http://www.clutchmasters.com/clutch-kits/

2ZZ FX500 here: http://www.clutchmasters.com/fx500-16080-hdb6/

Also, with intake manifold, I was wondering if 2ZZ metal (and port matched) would fit the 1ZZ?

I have a clutch master flywheel to fit as well so I am looking at some of their clutch kits, JUBU gears are rated to 295ft/lbs but can take more.

Someone was making an adaptor kit to fit the 2zz manifold to the 1zz, spoke with MWR who tried it and found it lost power Vs the stock plastic one. Also the adapter spaced out the manifold a bit so would be ok with 1zz engines as fwd, think it would hit the firewall on the roadster etc.

[m1tch]

Mini update, will be looking to run at Santa Pod at the start of June, have just removed the doorcards to trim slightly more weight out of it and have spent a bit of the Easter weekend logging and tweaking the ECU map, fueling is now within 0.1 AFR of target without turning on the wideband autotune. The Link ECU has a setting where I can use the wideband O2 sensor and automatically adjust the fueling to the target AFR when driving - only temporary but the fueling values are very close to spot on so its not really working too hard.

Will look to see if I can work out how to run the launch control, would usually use a clutch switch or toggle switch to activate, think I can also active it using a % throttle and arm when the speed is at 0.

Anyway, this coming run will probably be the final run with the stock engine at 178k miles, after I (hopefully) improve on the 14.96 time I am going to be changing a few things back to road trim such as adding in audio and a few bits of carpet etc that had been removed. Plan will be to get the forged engine build up and swap in maybe next year, I have coilovers and Whiteline ARBs to fit first and might also look to swap out the wheels and tyres as well.

The engine is coming together very slowly, I am taking my time with it (when I do get free time), and performance parts for the 1zz at this power level aren't the easiest to come by, will be ordering the Supertech master valvetrain kit soon, still need to finish the short block but need to check oil clearances on the rod bearings first, pretty sure they will be fine but need to check everything over.

Main big parts still to buy for the engine assembly are - note that this is to just get the engine together rather than turbo:

Supertech valvetrain (valves, dual springs and titanium retainers, setup is rated to 8,500 rpm)
Moroso sump (baffled and will allow easy fitment of the turbo drain etc)
Clutch - looking at a few ACT options, luckily the 2zz engines have the same clutch but currently looking for something that can hold the torque but still be drivable
Intake manifold - need to see if I can remove the internal plastic divider from the stock manifold myself, otherwise I will need to order one from the States or go fully custom
Gearbox needs to be sent off for a rebuild, I have the gearbox and the JUBU gears, just need Rogue motorsports to rebuild it

I have all new gaskets, seals, sealants, oil pump, chain etc so those are ready to go, think the main big step is getting the oil clearances checked on the rods and get the rods and pistons in, from there its just a case of installing valves and springs, checking the clearance on the buckets for the custom Piper cams and bolt the whole thing together. Its taking longer than expected due to a few higher priced parts but for me if I am going to build the engine I am going to build it properly and only build it once, its coming together though.

Additional parts such as the fueling can wait as I can change over injectors and exhaust parts when the engine is in whereas I can't change any internal parts or the intake manifold.

What RPM are your pistons and rods rated to? And what are the intake/exhaust valve clearances on the Piper cams as the Crowers I've put in are a lot different to standard clearances?


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I will check with the various suppliers in terms of RPMs etc, they are Molnar rods and custom Traum pistons, I think MWR rev to around 7,800 on their built engines, guess I will see where the power drops off on the dyno when it gets there. I will look to work out shift points with regards to the gearbox ratios - you can get better wheel torque from running higher RPM in a lower gear (less power by more mechanical advantage) than more power in a longer gear - will work out shift points.

Cam specs are:

Inlet

Open 20
Close 60
Lift 0.393"
Duration 260
Clearance 0.008"

Exhaust

Open 52
Close 12
Lift 0.348"
Duration 244
Clearance 0.010"

Overlap is 32 degrees

[Call the midlife!]

Good stuff, be prepared to have to change probably half your buckets with those clearances, they're the same as the Crowers and a lot tighter than standard.


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[m1tch]

Good stuff, be prepared to have to change probably half your buckets with those clearances, they're the same as the Crowers and a lot tighter than standard.


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Yeah, will be ordering the Supertech valvetrain soon so will work on the head over the next couple of months, will see what bucket clearances I currently have and see how many I need to swap out. Its a shame they aren't hydraulic or can be shimmed but I guess the 1zz was never meant to be making huge power!

[Call the midlife!]

Good stuff, be prepared to have to change probably half your buckets with those clearances, they're the same as the Crowers and a lot tighter than standard.


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Yeah, will be ordering the Supertech valvetrain soon so will work on the head over the next couple of months, will see what bucket clearances I currently have and see how many I need to swap out. Its a shame they aren't hydraulic or can be shimmed but I guess the 1zz was never meant to be making huge power!

You can't check your clearances until you've fitted the new valvetrain and cams, that's what held me up on mine while all the parts came in.
You'll need to lap the valves in first then fit the cams and torque everything up and start checking, all good fun.


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[m1tch]

Good stuff, be prepared to have to change probably half your buckets with those clearances, they're the same as the Crowers and a lot tighter than standard.


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Yeah, will be ordering the Supertech valvetrain soon so will work on the head over the next couple of months, will see what bucket clearances I currently have and see how many I need to swap out. Its a shame they aren't hydraulic or can be shimmed but I guess the 1zz was never meant to be making huge power!

You can't check your clearances until you've fitted the new valvetrain and cams, that's what held me up on mine while all the parts came in.
You'll need to lap the valves in first then fit the cams and torque everything up and start checking, all good fun.


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Indeed, I am doing it in stages, first time I have ever built and engine so taking my time, no real deadline for it to be finished although will probably crack on with getting parts ordered soon budget depending etc I have the cams already and the supertech kit comes with valves, dual springs and titanium retainers. I have a set of Meister R coilovers and Whiteline ARBs to also be fitted so will get those in first, might then look to get rims and tyres that I have been researching for quite a while lol.

Its coming together though, I am going to head to Santapod next month when the main RWYB dates are, get a drag time with as much removed as I can (but still ok for a daily) - will then see how fast the car can run with the most weight removed coupled with the Link ECU - will be happy if I nibble away a bit more into the 14s, best time was a 14.96 with quite a few runs at exactly 15 seconds - would be great to run a 14.8 or closer to a 14.9.

After that I am going to add back a few stock parts as from that point the car won't go any faster until the new engine and setup, will be replacing the stereo as well as a few trim pieces, might also swap out the seats etc and a few minor tweaks to it.

Means that if when the time comes with the turbo etc and the car runs a 12.1 I know that I can pull out some weight to drop into the 11s to tick the power/weight goal of the car - if running at 1000kg, looking at the calculator it would predict I need around 330 bhp - considering the engine will probably make around 70-100bhp more than that I should be ok to run the car with most of the stock parts installed on the inside. Up at 400bhp its predicting a mid 11 second pass - even with the car at 250kg heavier than stock at 400bhp it should still run an 11!

As it is the car is already lighter than stock with the rear bin removal as well as various heat shields and other parts so the aim would be to run at stock weight with the turbo fitted - eg remove the same amount of weight that I put back in with the turbo.

[Call the midlife!]

I've got the supertech valve train, if you haven't already I'd look at getting viton stem seals too.


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[Carolyn]

Inlet and exhaust have different rubber types.  BY design.

Don't put the same seals on all 16.

[Call the midlife!]

Inlet and exhaust have different rubber types.  BY design.

Don't put the same seals on all 16.

That's interesting, I asked for a set of Viton stem seals and allegedly received a full set of 16. They're different seals each side for sure but wasn't aware of differences in material.


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[m1tch]

Just doing a bit more prep before going to Santapod in a couple of weekends time now, I pressure washed the car a couple of weeks ago and recently found a puddle in the rear of the passenger section, the carpet sound deadening had absorbed quite a bit of water so I have pulled the carpet out as well.

I have also pulled a few additional items just for the drag strip to see what I can get out of the car in terms of the best power I can get as well as how light I can get it.

Additional items pulled from the car:

Door cards (but kept the door pulls)
Carpet
Instrument binnacle surround
Trim piece below the steering wheel
Trim surround the HVAC controls

Its worth noting that a lot of this trim is going back into the car once I have a final time attained, hope to better my current time of 14.96 to maybe a mid 14, guessing it might end up at around a 14.7 which I would still be happy with.

Looking at some of the 1/4 mile times for production cars, here are a few examples:

Subaru BRZ/GT86 - 15.19
Honda civic type R RN2 - 15.12
Nissan 300zx TT - 14.06
Celica T sport 190 - 14.97 <---already quicker
Clio V6 - 14.94
Jaguar E type (5.3 V12) - 14.88
Porsche 944 turbo - 14.8
Audi TT 1.8t 225 - 14.8
Honda civic type R EP3 - 14.72 <--- possible next run on stock engine + lighter weight
Honda civic type R EK9 - 14.62
Skyline GTR R34 - 13.96
Skyline GTR R33 - 13.93
Supra (4th gen) turbo - 13.77
Skyline GTR R32 - 13.64
Nissan Skyline GT-R R35 Nismo - 11.37 <--- possible target when engine work is complete

[Call the midlife!]

When you say production cars, I assume you mean fresh out of the showroom, fully loaded?
So, respectfully, not really a fair comparison with a part stripped car?


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[m1tch]

When you say production cars, I assume you mean fresh out of the showroom, fully loaded?
So, respectfully, not really a fair comparison with a part stripped car?


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Looking at some of the Civic type R times on some of the Honda forums it would seem they usually run high 14s with a few bolt ons, low 14s with some interior stripped out. They would also be running 70bhp more power than me with 2k extra RPMs lol.

[Call the midlife!]

What I meant was where are those figures above from? Manufacturers or owners?


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[m1tch]

What I meant was where are those figures above from? Manufacturers or owners?


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I grabbed them from the list below:

https://www.autosnout.com/Quarter-Mile-Car-List.php

Interesting to see the various cars in the list, still aiming for an 11 second pass for this project but basically after this next drag run I will be starting to mod the interior, going with a retro theme, still have suspension to bolt in which will be done after I have sorted the drag run out.

[Call the midlife!]

Aaah, all estimated, I wondered how they'd compiled a list of cars you wouldn't normally expect to be doing a production spec quarter mile.


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[m1tch]

Aaah, all estimated, I wondered how they'd compiled a list of cars you wouldn't normally expect to be doing a production spec quarter mile.


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Probably matches up to something like this that basically works out the power to weight and then cross references it with a known 1/4 mile time etc for that power to weight:

http://www.torquestats.com/modified/index.php?pid=calculator

It would seem I need around 330bhp per ton or so for an 11 second pass, aiming for a guesstimate of around 400bhp for my build although won't be running anywhere near that when on the road - basically looking to prove the car can run that time and then dial it back.

[KRAMSNEHPETS]

when are you going to Santa Pod?

[m1tch]

when are you going to Santa Pod?

Planning on going on the 15th June, weather depending, don't know how much of an improvement I can make, will try and get the launch control setup sorted though, will be happy if I run a 14.8 I think - that would be a 1 second improvement from stock.

[m1tch]

I managed to run at Santa pod over the weekend, but of a mixed bag as I only had 2 runs and 1 aborted, had an issue with a misfire caused by water down the spark plug hole. Had this issue before, found it was some insulation got under the rubber gasket around the base of the coil meaning that all of the wet weather we had meant that it filled up.

The car ran ok for the first run with a 15.3, just before the 2nd run I heard a stumble which gradually got worse, 2nd pass was a 14.99 with a 60 ft of 2.07 so still a good launch but I think I have removed around 15kg more from the car since the last run so was down on power.

I aborted the 3rd run as it was really down on power past the 1/8 mile so backed off.

Here are the stats so far in terms of what I have learnt:

Stock power, stock weight 15.8 - 138bhp per ton

Stock power and around 68kg removed - 15.3 - 148bhp per ton

Extra power and around 68kg removed - 14.96 - 158bhp per ton (guesstimate 10bhp more than stock looking at the estimated times)

Car down on power but 83kg removed - 14.99 - 158bhp per ton - looks like I am down around 3bhp to get the same time with less weight

Estimated time if car was at 83kg removed and full power from previous runs - 14.86 (around 1 second improvement from stock)

This therefore means that the approx 15kg extra I had taken off works out at 1bhp per 5kg, I therefore so far am finding in terms of performance:

1/4 mile time is improved by 0.1s with every 10kg removed
1/4 mile time is improved by 0.03s with every 1bhp

This seems to show (with this sort of power and weight removed) that pulling weight out the car is more effective than increasing power.

[Joesson]

@m1tch said:

"pulling weight out the car is more effective than increasing power".

That sounds like @Petrus theorem!

[Nvy]

@m1tch said:

"pulling weight out the car is more effective than increasing power".

That sounds like @Petrus theorem!

Until.. every killo becomes 4k in carbon parts

[jvanzyl]

I managed to run at Santa pod over the weekend, but of a mixed bag as I only had 2 runs and 1 aborted, had an issue with a misfire caused by water down the spark plug hole. Had this issue before, found it was some insulation got under the rubber gasket around the base of the coil meaning that all of the wet weather we had meant that it filled up.

The car ran ok for the first run with a 15.3, just before the 2nd run I heard a stumble which gradually got worse, 2nd pass was a 14.99 with a 60 ft of 2.07 so still a good launch but I think I have removed around 15kg more from the car since the last run so was down on power.

I aborted the 3rd run as it was really down on power past the 1/8 mile so backed off.

Here are the stats so far in terms of what I have learnt:

Stock power, stock weight 15.8 - 138bhp per ton

Stock power and around 68kg removed - 15.3 - 148bhp per ton

Extra power and around 68kg removed - 14.96 - 158bhp per ton (guesstimate 10bhp more than stock looking at the estimated times)

Car down on power but 83kg removed - 14.99 - 158bhp per ton - looks like I am down around 3bhp to get the same time with less weight

Estimated time if car was at 83kg removed and full power from previous runs - 14.86 (around 1 second improvement from stock)

This therefore means that the approx 15kg extra I had taken off works out at 1bhp per 5kg, I therefore so far am finding in terms of performance:

1/4 mile time is improved by 0.1s with every 10kg removed
1/4 mile time is improved by 0.03s with every 1bhp

This seems to show (with this sort of power and weight removed) that pulling weight out the car is more effective than increasing power.

Excellent post!!

[m1tch]

There is obviously a finite weight you can remove from the car coupled with the most power you can get with the stock engine just from NA tuning on an unopened engine.

As a best case scenario, removing around 83kg of weight, plus running low on fuel (I ran at 1/2 tank so could run 10kg less fuel) giving a 95kg or there abouts saving from stock weight. Looking around at a few dyno graphs on this site, the  engine might make around 160bhp.

I am basing my weight from stock weight of 1030kg (facelift) and with 140bhp it seems to calculate to 15.8s which seems about right.

With the least weight and most power at 160bhp and 935kg its up at 174 bhp per ton and should run a 14.4.

I am now in the process of bolting back a fair few stock items into the car so that its more of a road car now that I have my test results - basically from stock to fully modded there is probably a 1.5 second improvement in 1/4 mile time.

Looking at the list of weights, I have worked out that in 'road trim' - that is with some weight taken out but still having things like a sound system its around a 30kg saving over stock so for my facelift car it would be at around 1 ton. I still need to find a weighbridge to actually work out how much the car weighs but can reverse engineer the weight once I do as I know how much has been removed at each point.

I am gradually moving my project forward, from now on the car will be in road trim and I now plan to do suspension and handling mods, wheels and tyres and some aero. I will also be building up the engine this year once all of the parts have been assembled. I think the new engine when run NA will have around the same power as the stock engine as the compression is slightly lower but has a higher RPM range although with FI cams installed.

I should also get a bit of weight saving from the coilovers but might be cancelled out with the wheel weight and any bracing etc.

Here is the possible combos coming up:

Road trim at -30kg saving (1000kg) + maxxed stock engine at around 160bhp - 163bhp per ton, 14.8s 1/4 mile

Then when I boost the engine here are some possible scenarios, weight will go up by probably around 50kg from road trim due to the extra parts:

Road trim with -30kg saving + turbo at +50kg (1020kg) - low boost at 220bhp - 219bhp per ton, 13.3s 1/4 mile

Road trim with -30kg saving + turbo at +50kg (1020kg) - mid boost at 300bhp - 299bhp per ton, 12.2s 1/4 mile

Road trim with -30kg saving + turbo at +50kg (1020kg) - high boost at 400bhp - 398bhp per ton, 11.6s 1/4 mile

Looking at the power needed to run any 11 second pass it would seem I would need 330bhp or more with the car at 1020kg.

I plan to run at 21psi of max boost and will probably need to retard the ignition slightly at 4.5k to stop the gearbox exploding. I will see how it goes when I get it professionally mapped with the turbo, will look to gradually nudge up the boost and keep an eye on the torque.

I will only plan to run at the highest boost pressure for a couple of drag runs to prove the car can run an 11, would need well over 500bhp to run a 10 as its hard to go faster the quicker you go which is why I think an 11 second 1/4 mile time is attainable.

Next on the list is probably to look at aero, looking at adding vortex generators to the hard top roof after doing some tuft tests, coupled with a boot lip spoiler. Will also look to fit the coilovers and ARBs in the next month or so and I also need to wire in the launch control switch.

Hopefully look to go back to Santapod in road trim with a fully working engine that isn't misfiring in a few weeks time to see what sort of time it will run as a baseline.

[Petrus]

Thanks Mitch!!

With 10 liters of fuel I am already close to 900 kilos according to the weighbridge accross the road and with the ordered seats bolted in, that will be about 15 less. I hópe!

Lexan side windows and making them manual up/down should add another 8+ kilos of lightness. I am not sure it is worth the hassle, more sure it is not, but it has a serious cool factor for me: It is só hard core rallye and I lóve that.

At Nvy; adding lightness by remóving things is for free.
Without the windows, as I have not ordered those yet, but all the rest, I am at 1500€ for >100 kilos and that is incl. Enkei RPF1 which do a lot more than just make the car lighter.

Now... how to unclip the rearview ,mirror ....

[m1tch]

Thanks Mitch!!

With 10 liters of fuel I am already close to 900 kilos according to the weighbridge accross the road and with the ordered seats bolted in, that will be about 15 less. I hópe!

Lexan side windows and making them manual up/down should add another 8+ kilos of lightness. I am not sure it is worth the hassle, more sure it is not, but it has a serious cool factor for me: It is só hard core rallye and I lóve that.

At Nvy; adding lightness by remóving things is for free.
Without the windows, as I have not ordered those yet, but all the rest, I am at 1500€ for >100 kilos and that is incl. Enkei RPF1 which do a lot more than just make the car lighter.

Now... how to unclip the rearview ,mirror ....

I am going to try and find somewhere I can weigh my car, there isn't anywhere local it seems which is annoying, I might also look to swap out the seats at some point for some road going bucket seats although the stock ones aren't actually that bad and even have harness holes!

I am going to go for a more 'retro' look on the inside, will be looking to swap out some of the buttons for toggle switches, add some of the diamond pattern fabric on the door cars and behind the seats etc.

From now on my car won't be stripped out any further with basically everything from the centre bar forward will be basically stock or modified stock. I won't be refitting the soft top though, just need to work out a way to tidy up the rear of the car. I can't refit the rear bin bases owing to the ECU although I might be able to move that if its easier, will try a few options. Basically I want to only bolt in any trim pieces that make the car feel more stock rather than trying to bolt everything in to return it to stock - even a small amount of weight saving will be good.

I think I might look to put the carpet back in, it only weighs around 3kg - for me I have pulled all the weight out the car for free, I haven't spent anything on making the car lighter. I will look to put up a full list of everything I have removed and the weights so others can work out what they feel is ok to remove.