Koni Sport Conversion

[thetyrant]

Ok ive been pondering which way to go with suspension on this car and im very fussy which doesn't help!,  i like to try and make as good an allrounder as I can capable of handling some track use but still compliant enough for the terrible state of uk roads, ive tried lots of setups on previous cars and spent way to much money in many cases!   anyhows I often find a set of Koni Sport Adjustable dampers are the best compromise coupled with stock or mild lowering/uprated spring kit works best and is sensible cost, after much reading on all options available for the roadster I was down to either KW V3 or Koni Sport adjustables again.

As much as I wanted the KW kit I just couldn't bring myself to spend nearly as much as I paid for car on the kit at this point, it is an option for future I would like to explore but as the point of buying this roadster was to have cheap fun I managed to stop myself buying the KW kit!, that just leaves the Koni setup and on these cars its the cut-a-strut system which for thos not familiar with it involves using your stock damper casing as donor which you cut open to remove stock internals then install Koni inserts, bit daunting if your not good with tools but not tooo tricky if you are, below is video they show how it works

https://youtu.be/PXSnNZt3NiI

I usually buy all my Koni parts from Larkspeed.com at great prices with quick shipping and would really recommend them if wanting to go this route, unfortunately for me on this occasion they were struggling to get stock until March as Koni were totally out!, I was going to wait but also wanted to get cracking so I set about looking for stock elsewhere and after a tip from member on here I found some in USA but shipping costs/taxes pushed them up a little more than I would like, next was scouring Ebay and several german sellers claimed to have stock ready to ship, after a message to double check that then at a good price and 2 days later I had a set in my hand

This weekend I set about the conversion pictures as below, I will get them onto car later this week hopefully and will be using my existing Tein springs for now.

First a pic of all parts ready to start to check they are correct..


Next is 1st strut drained and cut open alongside an uncut unit, I didn't cut enough off in this picture as was being cautious and had to take another 5mm or so off, better to do it this way if unsure as if you cut too much off strut is scrap and would need to get another strut to be able to continue....


All finished ready to go on car


I will update and report back on ride and handling once they are fitted onto car.

[Topdownman]

Nice work. I can imagine this is going to be a very good setup so look forward to hearing what you think of them.

[shnazzle]

I've never seen it done before. I had no idea that you basically use the stock shafts and slide the Konis in.
How does it sit at the bottom? Does it have a ledge at the bottom to sit on?

Never mind. I've watched the video. Very interested!

[thetyrant]

Its a good way of being able to supply more models without having to tool up/source the damper bodies, on some cars like fronts on my Celica GT4RC the stock damper actually has a removable insert by unscrewing the cap on top which makes it even easier, but most using this conversion need a use cut-a-strut though and which while not massive job is above those with only basic tools and knowledge, biggest downside other than that is the price as inserts now cost about as much as complete damper units Koni supply for some other cars which puts some people off, they used to be alot cheaper but as i know how the Koni dampers work so well for my kind of usage its not an issue for me but i know some would be put off by cost and work involved.


Ian

[BahnStormer]

For anybody else scanning these threads for feeedback/ideas on compliant, adjustable, track/fast road suspensions, this might be worth consideration: IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO WAIT: I thought that MeisterR did a special order 4kg/6kg spring rate set of their Zeta CRD+ coilovers... given that their 5kg/7kg set are rated similar in terms of comfort to other manufacturer's 4kg/6kg, I'm guessing they might have given you a more well known and more out-the box solution (albeit for ~£700 and several months of wondering if they have stock) - the latter being the main reason why I went with the BC Racing coilovers (with road-friendly  4kg/6kg springs and the NON-pillowball rear topmounts) - you just need to be prepared to wait: I was chasing MeisterR for (the standard 5kg/7kg) stock details last April and they were umm'ing and ah'ing about if they could deliver for mid-July and others who ordered at the same time didn't get theirs until August... I gave up asking in late June and had the BC Racing delivered in 2 days, installed a week later and two months of summer driving under my belt before the MeisterR's would have arrived...

Hard to recommend given the delayed delivery times, but might be worth the wait as their 5kg/7kg's seem to come very highly recommended, so a more compliant set would probably be even better on a daily.

[thetyrant]

I dont want this thread into a coilover vs stock type damper comparison minefield, its about my Koni install first and foremost and as there is so little info on here about it i wanted to do a thread on it for looking at options

Just for info i specifically avoided BC & Meister R as well as other cheap far east made kits for many reasons, mainly poor damping control and spring rates which are often way to high for road/daily use, all depends what your used to though but for me and my roads/usage they are not suitable in off the shelf versions at least, sure many people do daily them and have no issues but that doesnt mean there is not a much more suitable solution out there they just havent tried it,  also if you do enough digging many that say they are fine for road also say they are a touch on firm side, which for my aging body is no good

If im as happy as im hoping to be with the Koni's then the next step is to convert the damper body with a threaded sleeve to accept a stock coilover 2.25" or 2.5" spring which many have done in usa, this then allows me to pick any spring rate i want and retain the Koni damping which to me is much more road suitable, mainly down to the bump/compression damping compared to most cheaper coilover kits which are harsh in comparison, also the Koni damper can handle a much firmer spring than the stock ones and double the rate is well within limits with many having run a lot more on track cars, but thats not for me in this car but i think double the stock spring rate could work well and still be ok on road, for now though Tein-S springs will be used with shorter bumpstops.

Suspension is a subjective thing and what works for one doesnt often for another, but i know what i like and what i dont like and on my last BMW 130i daily driver/backup track car i tested 7 different suspension setups to try and find the best allrounder, everything from stock to Bilsteins, KW & Ohlins but the Koni is hard to beat for the price as an allrounder and thats what is on this one as well as my last one

Ian

[Topdownman]

Am I right in thinking that there is some user adjustment of the damping with these koni inserts?

[thetyrant]

Yes these have rebound damping adjustment

[shnazzle]

I agree with what you said above with regards to not having a BC/MeisterR vs Koni discussion.

I think you have chosen a very good solution with some of the world's best dampers and a wide selection of springs.
Stock ride is very compliant but performant, and I thibk your setup is a perfect mix.
My BCs are coming up to over 25k or so, so something like this (as I'm aging ) is very interesting as a next option. Especially for the price.

[thetyrant]

Well your welcome to a ride in it when ive got them on to see how it compares

Fingers crossed will get them onto car tonight.

[shnazzle]

Well your welcome to a ride in it when ive got them on to see how it compares

Fingers crossed will get them onto car tonight.

Excellent. Much appreciated.
Best be at Ding Day

[Beachbum957]

I have the same setup with Tein-S springs and Koni inserts and they work very well together.  I looked as MeisterR, but since I already had the springs, tried the Koni.  I drove another MR2 with a very well setup coilover with custom springs(4/5k) and modified damping, and the difference wasn't much.  If anything the Tein / Koni setup had a better ride with similar control and handling

[thetyrant]

Well your welcome to a ride in it when ive got them on to see how it compares

Fingers crossed will get them onto car tonight.

Excellent. Much appreciated.
Best be at Ding Day

Doubt I will make that but your not far from me so sure we can meet up sometimes, I was over your way for a run out couple of weeks ago

[shnazzle]

A fine choice! Cool. When the weather gets a bit more suitable and I'm not as hectic I'll drop you a line

[thetyrant]

Got them fitted onto car last night but haven't driven it yet, will take it to work today the long way round

[thetyrant]

Small update, havent had a huge amount of miles on them yet maybe 30 or so and mostly just pottering to work and back but so far they feel very good from a comfort point of view, very slightly firmer than the well worn stock dampers i removed but not harsh at all, car body feels much better controlled and seems to of sorted the mushy feel i had from rear of car under certain direction changes over bumps but ive not had chance to push the car very hard yet, if weather is good i will get it out this weekend for some more miles and get a better feel for how they perform overall.  Im tempted to head down for half day at Cadwell but dont think i can face the trip again so soon as was only there a few weeks ago and its 3hours+ each way!

Also need to double check my alignment and have some camber bolts coming for front to help with tyre shoulder wear on track.

Ian

[thetyrant]

Took the opportunity last night to get out for a blast through the lakes on quiet twisty roads, very impressed with how the car handles and rides now  

Currently i have dampers set just above full soft on (+90degree out of a possible 720degrees of adjustment) and i think i can probably go touch firmer to +180 on these springs if roads are not too bad but anymore will make it over damped for spring rates i would guess, will experiment on that though.

To me good suspension is when you get to end of a ride out and havent really noticed it!, despite going out last night to specifically to test the suspension i had to keep reminding myself of this as car just lapped it up and i was having too much fun!, car has lost its nervousness at high speeds when hitting slight ridges/bumps which i had before and could be unnerving to say the least!  also the overall body control is much improved with no real impact on comfort when pottering along, in fact i would say in most cases its more comfortable than the old stock dampers as its just damping the bumps better now, but the stock stuff is of course well used so not a totally fair comparison.

Sure the Tein springs are still a bit soft when really pushing things and on track will be more evident again, but as i prefer a more compliant car rather than one stiff as a board that struggles when it gets bumpy, a stiff car is not always the fastest car either as many wrongly think   this car is now perfect for road/ fast road use on this setup with a compliant yet sporty/controlled ride and able to handle bumpy roads much better, interested to see how it is on track as ive done 2 trackdays so far in the car 1 on totally stock suspension and the last on the Tein springs/stock dampers, there was a good improvements just changing the springs mainly from car being lower i think but now with Koni dampers as well im sure it will feel much better again, its never going to best track setup with soft springs like this but it should be nice and balanced and being able to tweak damping a little will be nice, a good allround package im sure and will report more once ive tried it on track and more road miles.

So far win win

[shnazzle]

Jealous

Sounds like a perfect mix of UK road compliance with a sturdier and more capable ride.

[CrazySX]

Sounds good Ian. It's a nice feeling when you lose that high speed nervousness. I felt that in the 200sx when I changed over to coilovers. The difference was night and day

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[thetyrant]

Jealous

Sounds like a perfect mix of UK road compliance with a sturdier and more capable ride.

So far so good and will get some more miles on asap

[Beachbum957]

We have the same Koni / Tein setup on our 2002 MR2 and came to the same conclusions. What I found is the rebound adjustment is pretty sensitive and even 1/8 turn (45 deg) made a noticeable difference.  After many - many experiments with settings, we ended up at 3/4 turn (270 deg) from full soft front and rear.  A little less gave a slightly netter ride, and a bit more felt better, but the suspension would slightly "pack down" (not return fast enough) over a series of small bumps.

With those settings, it is surprising how quickly you can push on less than perfect roads with little drama.  We have a 2003 with stock suspension and the ride with Koni / Tein is actually slightly better except on really rough roads where suspension travel comes into play.  Even then, the Konis keep the tires on the ground when the stock suspension would move around more.

We started with Tein and KYB which worked well, but seemed to have a bit too much compression damping and too little rebound, particularly in the front, which lead to a "porpoise" in some conditions. That is gone with the Koni.  Overall, a nice package

[silversprint]

I used a set of used HSD coilovers with koni shocks to build my own koni coilovers. It's allows me to run what ever rat spring I want. It also gives me full ride height adjustment and front camber plates. The tender  springs definitely improves the ride.

[thetyrant]

I used a set of used HSD coilovers with koni shocks to build my own koni coilovers. It's allows me to run what ever rat spring I want. It also gives me full ride height adjustment and front camber plates. The tender  springs definitely improves the ride.

Nice job same sort of thing im thinking off in future, if i find some bust up cheap coilovers to use like you did that would be great, but if not i can weld on threaded sleeves to my stock struts.

What spring rates have you been using on these ?

Ive just added whiteline camber bolts to front of mine and its given me plenty of camber adjustment and more than i expected, i set them on full negative on install as in past on other cars ive found that only gave me -1.5deg but on this car they are giving my -2.5deg!   ideal for track but a touch too much for road i think so will dial them back a touch to around -2deg.

Ian

[silversprint]

This particular set had 4kg 6kg springs.

[thetyrant]

This particular set had 4kg 6kg springs.

Nice one thanks for info and is that on stock koni valving ?  if so good to know they can handle such a spring rate increase over stock and lowering springs.

Looking at data on SC the stock springs are approx 1.3kg front &  2.1kg rear and Tein S-spec @ 1.9kg front & 2.9kg rear for others reference.