Koni Sport Conversion

[Gaz mr-s]

This particular set had 4kg 6kg springs.

Nice one thanks for info and is that on stock koni valving ?  if so good to know they can handle such a spring rate increase over stock and lowering springs.

Looking at data on SC the stock springs are approx 1.3kg front &  2.1kg rear and Tein S-spec @ 1.9kg front & 2.9kg rear for others reference.

SC ? Link please.

[thetyrant]

This particular set had 4kg 6kg springs.

Nice one thanks for info and is that on stock koni valving ?  if so good to know they can handle such a spring rate increase over stock and lowering springs.

Looking at data on SC the stock springs are approx 1.3kg front &  2.1kg rear and Tein S-spec @ 1.9kg front & 2.9kg rear for others reference.

SC ? Link please.

Sure here you go a  - https://www.spyderchat.com/forums/showthread.php?104465-Spring-Rates-Table-for-Lowering-Springs

[thetyrant]

Quick update on the Koni/Tein setup after a busy weekend, i was down at Cadwell park for first round of the Javelin Japanese sprint series and it was first chance ive had to try the Koni on circuit, its a 3hour/180mile drive down from cumbria to Cadwell so i left the dampers in comfort mode ive been using (+90deg from full soft) which gives a very nice ride on the road, its a touch too soft if your pressing on mind and can get a little bouncy so i usually turn to +180deg if im going for a hoon which give firmer but still compliant ride and better body control.

On track i turned them to +360 so 1 full turn from full soft, only had 6 laps all day due to stoppages and weather etc but the car felt superb considering the soft Tein springs, very balanced and easy to feel exactly what the car is doing straight out the box which is what you need on a sprint, also left them on that setting for a 50mile trip during lunch break to pick up some parts for my old GT4, bit harsh for me on road at that setting initally but by time i got back to circuit i was kind of used to it and the way you can chuck it around is great, i think +180 is a better fast road setting though.

All in all very happy and while i want to build up the adjustable damper body so i can play with spring rates im in no rush to do so as car feels good as is, im tempted to play with uprated Anti Roll bars next to see how that changes things, again im in no rush though car is very good now

Im keen to get a trackday in on them if i can before next sprint in May to further play with adjustment, its hard to do this on a limited 1 lap sprint so i didnt tinker further but on a trackday it would be good to play more, i dont think i would want much firmer as it will be overdamped for the springs but be good to play.

Ian

[Beachbum957]

We have been running the same setup for a while now, and came to the same conclusions.  1/2 turn (180 deg) gave a really nice ride, but we ended at 3/4 (270 deg) on the street.  The lighter damping let to a slightly move active suspension on rougher roads.  One full turn was a bit better when pushed hard, but the ride suffered.  After lots of tweaking we ended at the 3/4 setting as a good compromise on the street.

[Mikeymead]

I nearly went this way but went MeisterR in the end. I sometimes now feel that I should have gone with the Konis. Love to see a pic of the install, I can't quite get my head round how the adjusters stick through the rear mounts.

[thetyrant]

For mainly road use this koni setup is a million times better than any coilovers setup in terms of ride quality,  especially the lower budget in the range like Meister and BC etc, the Koni has much more road suitable damping and spring rates even with the firmer tein springs i have.

It's also pretty stealthy as the adjusters don't stay fitted, basically you remove damper cover and place adjuster on then  adjust and remove it back into glovebox, refit caps over damper tops and away you go.

I guess you could leave them fitted with some silicone or something to hold them in place but I prefer the stealth look, ive cut 2 holes in frunk cover with a hole saw which allows it to be refitted and still access adjusters, I will get a couple of pics for you.

[1979scotte]

For mainly road use this koni setup is a million times better than any coilovers setup in terms of ride quality,  especially the lower budget in the range like Meister and BC etc, the Koni has much more road suitable damping and spring rates even with the firmer tein springs i have.

I am going to have to get a go on these.
Having had Meister R on 2 different 2s I find it hard to believe that they can be that comfortable and offer a serious improvement.
Obviously as always they will be superior to stock suspension that's done some miles.

[shnazzle]

For mainly road use this koni setup is a million times better than any coilovers setup in terms of ride quality,  especially the lower budget in the range like Meister and BC etc, the Koni has much more road suitable damping and spring rates even with the firmer tein springs i have.

I am going to have to get a go on these.
Having had Meister R on 2 different 2s I find it hard to believe that they can be that comfortable and offer a serious improvement.
Obviously as always they will be superior to stock suspension that's done some miles.

I'm keen as well. Look forward to your review

[thetyrant]

Anyone up in the north is welcome for a ride in my car anytime to experience the Koni/Tein combo, point to note for those that are thinking of this is you must shorten the Bumpstops if fitting Tein spring kit unless you want a bouncy ride, the old Tein instructions used to show this but for some reason they dont now, if you dont cut it the car will be very firm especially at the front as your basically sat on the bumpstop all the time, it should come into play and assist the coilspring on bigger bumps but you dont want it touching all the time, maybe if track only it might be good to firm up front end but i didnt have issue with mine and shorter bumps when on track last weekend and i prefer a compliant setup.

I took a couple of pics of the adjuster setup i have, first up front with cover on, you can see the rubber dust cap is accessible through the hole ive cut in frunk cover,  rubber cap  is touching the adjuster tab on damper but it doesnt cause any issue, i guess in time it might wear a hole in it but no biggy.



Next with the 3 different length adjuster knobs in place, i forgot i recieved 2 of each and have been using the shorter one which is a bit fiddly with frunk cover on, will carry both types from now on.





And the Rear, hard plastic cover clears the adjuster tab on damper so just remove it, fit on adjuster turn to desired setting then remove and refit cover, keeps it nice and oem looking


HTH

[shnazzle]

I just noticed the HSD coilover bodies with Koni inserts.
Is that a way I can improve my BCs?
If I get the Koni cut-a-strut inserts, could I insert them onto my 4/6kg spring BC setup and get a more compliant ride?
I'm sick of bouncing around now. And having now spent some time in Helen's stock MR2, there's a LOT to be said for stock suspension for compliance. So if I can get a blend, that'd be great

[Petrus]

I'm sick of bouncing around now. And having now spent some time in Helen's stock MR2, there's a LOT to be said for stock suspension for compliance. So if I can get a blend, that'd be grea

You nailed why I stuck with the OEM shocks/springs and cut the springs to restore ride hight to a few mm below stock spec. only.

I found bracing to improve steering response and stability but is also reduced chassis compliance and thus stiffened up the ride quite enough for comfort on real world roads.

Will go Konis with current springs when the shocks need replacing.

[thetyrant]

Just spotted this post ( not getting email notification for some reason?) but yes i believe you can fit the Koni inserts into coilovers like BC etc once you gut them, not sure if they need a shim or something guess it depends on ID of BC once gutted but maybe others can comment on that.

You will love the Koni damping compared to the BC, maybe need to tweak spring rates a touch to give more plush ride but the Koni will handle BC spring rate if turned up.

[shnazzle]

Just spotted this post ( not getting email notification for some reason?) but yes i believe you can fit the Koni inserts into coilovers like BC etc once you gut them, not sure if they need a shim or something guess it depends on ID of BC once gutted but maybe others can comment on that.

You will love the Koni damping compared to the BC, maybe need to tweak spring rates a touch to give more plush ride but the Koni will handle BC spring rate if turned up.

I'm on 4/6kg. Does that help?

[thetyrant]

I'm on 4/6kg. Does that help?

Well its certainly better than the higher spring option on BC!! , still probably too firm for UK roads i think though but worth a try see how it rides, Koni should handle those rates from what others have said but its big jump from stock or Teins, but easy/cheap enough to get some Faulkner springs at lower rates for your BC's if you need more compliance.

Stock springs from what other have posted on SC are as below for reference...
Front - 1.3kg/mm
Rear - 2.1kg/mm

and Tein S-tech ...
Front - 1.9kg/mm
Rear - 2.9kg/mm

I think if i change my springs front could do with around 3 to 3.5kg and to keep same  +50% ratio to rear thats around 4.5 - 5kg should work ok, always take a  bit of playing around and your current springs with Konis should ride lot better than it is with BC damping anyhows.

Ian

[james_ly]

OEM springs+dampers, with stiffer ARBs would be a possible road setup for someone to try?

[thetyrant]

OEM springs+dampers, with stiffer ARBs would be a possible road setup for someone to try?

Wel im on the Konis and Tein springs with Whiteline ARB front and rear and its simply superb for what it is and cost, i would imagine stock spring/damper with the ARB upgrade would be ok but i found the stock damper/spring setup a bit floaty, not sure if it was height or damping related but thing bit of both as springs were first mod which improved that a lot, dampers were next and totally sorted it, arb no massive difference on road unless really pressing on but they do come into there own on track though and help hold car up much better.

[silversprint]

I just noticed the HSD coilover bodies with Koni inserts.
Is that a way I can improve my BCs?
If I get the Koni cut-a-strut inserts, could I insert them onto my 4/6kg spring BC setup and get a more compliant ride?
I'm sick of bouncing around now. And having now spent some time in Helen's stock MR2, there's a LOT to be said for stock suspension for compliance. So if I can get a blend, that'd be great

I don't think you can do this with the BC. The HSD case is steel. I have to weld a narrower top on the case so it can compress fit the KOni inserts. The HSD case also has a solid bottom so you can drill a hole for the bottom Koni screw to hold the insert in. The HSD camber plate is the right diameter for the top of the Koni strut.  I use to sell the Powertrix/HSD coilovers so I had lots of spare parts laying around to work it and a shock dyno in my house.

You could us the double adjustable koni inserts but they would be harder to install and more expensive.

The easier path if you have the BC is to simply replace the internals with Bilstein pistons, as long as they are the regular and not inverted.. You can valve the bilstein to identical valving as the Koni. I have done this a couple of times. The results are good. The credit goes to this guys who provided the info.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-1st-gen-1993-1997/770149-diy-shock-revalve-parts-1-3-a.html

Either way it does require some knowledge of working of shocks.

[shnazzle]

I just noticed the HSD coilover bodies with Koni inserts.
Is that a way I can improve my BCs?
If I get the Koni cut-a-strut inserts, could I insert them onto my 4/6kg spring BC setup and get a more compliant ride?
I'm sick of bouncing around now. And having now spent some time in Helen's stock MR2, there's a LOT to be said for stock suspension for compliance. So if I can get a blend, that'd be great

I don't think you can do this with the BC. The HSD case is steel. I have to weld a narrower top on the case so it can compress fit the KOni inserts. The HSD case also has a solid bottom so you can drill a hole for the bottom Koni screw to hold the insert in. The HSD camber plate is the right diameter for the top of the Koni strut.  I use to sell the Powertrix/HSD coilovers so I had lots of spare parts laying around to work it and a shock dyno in my house.

You could us the double adjustable koni inserts but they would be harder to install and more expensive.

The easier path if you have the BC is to simply replace the internals with Bilstein pistons, as long as they are the regular and not inverted.. You can valve the bilstein to identical valving as the Koni. I have done this a couple of times. The results are good. The credit goes to this guys who provided the info.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-1st-gen-1993-1997/770149-diy-shock-revalve-parts-1-3-a.html

Either way it does require some knowledge of working of shocks.

Ah OK. So it's either stock struts and Koni or BC and Bilstein.
Thanks heaps for the info

[thetyrant]

Im sure the BC case could be made to work with the insert just like the HSD, not a straight forward drop in by sounds of it just a case of making spacer to get ID/OD correct and a fixing for base of insert, without seeing the BC from the 2 its hard to say just how much work it is though and while the length of casing for working out base fixing could be checked before stripping internals but the bore size is going to mean gutting it, if I could get hold of a set of old/blown BC I could do some measuring.

[shnazzle]

Im sure the BC case could be made to work with the insert just like the HSD, not a straight forward drop in by sounds of it just a case of making spacer to get ID/OD correct and a fixing for base of insert, without seeing the BC from the 2 its hard to say just how much work it is though and while the length of casing for working out base fixing could be checked before stripping internals but the bore size is going to mean gutting it, if I could get hold of a set of old/blown BC I could do some measuring.

You can use mine if I can borrow your suspension haha

[thetyrant]

I can lend you my spare stock dampers/springs    not a complete bolt on kit though as used some parts like topmounts etc when i fitted the konis.

Ive been trying to find pictures of the roadster BC BR kit to get an idea on how different to other BC kits ive had in past, i did eventually find some from a seller on FB group and looks like could possibly be made to work, the BC kit  is meant to have a 46mm piston so ID is at least that and Koni insert is smaller OD so would fit inside, would need a sleeve or something making to get a good fit like was done on the HSD conversion mentioned above, next issue is the lower bolt fixing of the insert as the BC damper looks a bit flimsy on bottom on pictures ive seen not sure if would be strong enough to bolt the insert into, but without taking one apart hard to say although im sure it would be easy enough to make something to sort that though either a top hat type insert or welding on big thick washer etc.

The length of the BC damper body is another question though as to if it would take the length of koni insert especially on the front, rear looks plenty long enough but front might not be, again hard to say without seeing one. I guess anyone with a BC kit could measure the length of damper section and it would give us an idea on this part at least

[silversprint]

I have a old set of bc coilovers.

Koni inserts won't really work with them.

Koni insert specs:
Front:
12in body
42mm OD

Rear
13.75in body
49mm OD

The BC shock cases have a 46mm ID.

[thetyrant]

I have a old set of bc coilovers.

Koni inserts won't really work with them.

Koni insert specs:
Front:
12in body
42mm OD

Rear
13.75in body
49mm OD

The BC shock cases have a 46mm ID.

Ah ok thanks for info, didn't realise the rear Koni was such a fatty!  back to my conversion of the stock damper body to take a threaded sleeve for normal coilover springs then

[BahnStormer]

This setup sounds appealing! It sounds like the right mix of geometry adjust-ability and a compliant ride that I'm after.

Is there a summary list of the parts required?

[thetyrant]

This setup sounds appealing! It sounds like the right mix of geometry adjust-ability and a compliant ride that I'm after.

Is there a summary list of the parts required?

Its a brilliant setup for road/fastroad and occasional track    all info is in the thread I think but all you need is some Koni sport dampers and springs to suit your needs, ive gone for Teins but should work with any springs including stock but wouldn't want to go any lower than Teins or it will mess of suspension function, of course you need a set of donor stock dampers to cut and install the Koni units into