Koni Sport Conversion

BahnStormer · September 16, 2019, 19:45

Anybody tried the Eibach or H&R springs - looks like similar / less lowering and slightly more compliant spring rate... almost close to stock!

In particular - this bundle of Koni Sport + H&R springs for £672?

https://www.carnoisseur.com/products/details/koni-sport-suspension-kit-to-fit-toyota-mr2-1140-3991

One other thought / concern: camber adjustment? Eibach EZ-cams for the rear? Anything needed for the front?

edit: looks like Eibach do an EZ-cam bolt set for the front too - let's hope that's all that is required?

Petrus · September 16, 2019, 20:18

Quote from: BahnStormer on September 16, 2019, 19:45Anybody tried the Eibach or H&R springs - looks like similar / less lowering and slightly more compliant spring rate... almost close to stock!

In particular - this bundle of Koni Sport + H&R springs for £672?

https://www.carnoisseur.com/products/details/koni-sport-suspension-kit-to-fit-toyota-mr2-1140-3991

One other thought / concern: camber adjustment? Eibach EZ-cams for the rear? Anything needed for the front?

Looked quite extensively into this all.
Decided to stay with OEM shocks and cut the stock spings (car is 130 kg lighter). Put in camber bolts both front and rear.
Maybe read the Southern Belle thread? There are quite a few more musings and mods. shared on it.

Topdownman · September 16, 2019, 20:23

Slightly less misleading picture here;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KONI-4x-Sport-Shock-Absorber-Full-Kit-Adjustable-8641-1420SPORT-8641-1422SPORT/253273710644?hash=item3af84a2034%3Ag%3Ahv4AAOSwG-1Z1KU5&fits=Car+Make%3AToyota%7CModel%3AMR+2%7CCars+Type%3A1.8+16V+VT-i%7CPlat_Gen%3AMK+III%7CCars+Year%3A2004%7CBodyStyle%3AConvertible%7CVariant%3AMK+III+%5B1999-2007%5D+Convertible%7CEngine%3A1794ccm+140HP+103KW+%28Petrol%29

Its a lot of money but this may be the best compromise suspension set up (with springs of your choice) for those of us that like the b roads.

Maybe a direct approach to the company if a few people were interested could get some discount??

Petrus · September 16, 2019, 20:35

Quote from: Topdownman on September 16, 2019, 20:23Its a lot of money

Well, all is relative. Not too bad for quality adjustable shocks all round.

BahnStormer · September 16, 2019, 22:30

Quote from: Topdownman on September 16, 2019, 20:23Slightly less misleading picture here;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KONI-4x-Sport-Shock-Absorber-Full-Kit-Adjustable-8641-1420SPORT-8641-1422SPORT/253273710644?hash=item3af84a2034%3Ag%3Ahv4AAOSwG-1Z1KU5&fits=Car+Make%3AToyota%7CModel%3AMR+2%7CCars+Type%3A1.8+16V+VT-i%7CPlat_Gen%3AMK+III%7CCars+Year%3A2004%7CBodyStyle%3AConvertible%7CVariant%3AMK+III+%5B1999-2007%5D+Convertible%7CEngine%3A1794ccm+140HP+103KW+%28Petrol%29

Its a lot of money but this may be the best compromise suspension set up (with springs of your choice) for those of us that like the b roads.

Maybe a direct approach to the company if a few people were interested could get some discount??

That said Koni Sport kit, but no mention of springs... the link I sent was the same adjustable shocks, but with progressive Eibach springs with near-OEM spring-rates... and ~£80 extra.... for springs that are normally >£150... also next day delivery included versus one that is described as a "non-stocked item"....

Topdownman · September 17, 2019, 06:54

H&R springs, not eibachs in the kit.

If it had been eibachs for that price then it is a good deal.

Not sure what is going to happen to the price of german goods shortly though....

thetyrant · September 17, 2019, 09:49

Spring wise there isnt much in it rate/height wise between the Tein, Eibach and H&R, i would of gone for the full koni kit which comes with the H&R springs as its cheapest way to get the springs, but i already had the Tein springs so bought dampers on there own from a ebay seller in germany who had stock.

Still marvels me how good this setup is as an allrounder

BahnStormer · September 17, 2019, 10:37

Quote from: Topdownman on September 17, 2019, 06:54H&R springs, not eibachs in the kit.

If it had been eibachs for that price then it is a good deal.

Not sure what is going to happen to the price of german goods shortly though....

I stand corrected - I think I found another kit that included Eibachs, but that was ~£800+delivery (for all their kits - any springs), then this one can along for £670 incl delivery.

I'm more worried about ANY supply rather than just the price.... MeisterR are also imported, so also will fluctuate if you need spares... and for them, the problem was nobody ever had any stock...

thetyrant · September 17, 2019, 11:26

Larkspeed.co.uk are good for Koni in uk but didnt have stock when i wanted these, also price was a bit more as i think i paid just over £500 delivered for the 4 dampers, they have kit with dampers & springs listed at £645 at moment so good price see link below.

https://larkspeed.com/shopper/i/277L11403991/Toyota-MR2-Spyder-1-8-16v-ZZW30-Koni-Sport-Suspension-Kit

Beachbum957 · September 17, 2019, 11:43

The Koni kit uses Eibach in some markets and H&R in others. Eibach and H&R don't publish spring rates, but the data that has been obtained suggest the H&R and Tein are very similar in both rate and drop, and the Eibach may be slightly softer and give slightly less drop.

As for camber, if you just add the springs like Tein, you should end up about -1.1 front and -1.7 rear with stock bolts, which works well. If you want more or less, you will need camber bolts. The fronts are 14 mm, even though many suppliers list them as 15 mm, which is the size for the rear

BahnStormer · September 18, 2019, 14:50

Quote from: Beachbum957 on September 17, 2019, 11:43The Koni kit uses Eibach in some markets and H&R in others. Eibach and H&R don't publish spring rates, but the data that has been obtained suggest the H&R and Tein are very similar in both rate and drop, and the Eibach may be slightly softer and give slightly less drop.

As for camber, if you just add the springs like Tein, you should end up about -1.1 front and -1.7 rear with stock bolts, which works well. If you want more or less, you will need camber bolts. The fronts are 14 mm, even though many suppliers list them as 15 mm, which is the size for the rear

Ta.

I have ordered:
KoniSport adjustable shocks + H&R springs kit as per previous link.
Eibach EZ-cam bolts, front and rear...

Delivery confirmed for next week. Should have them and installed with OEM geometry (Kwikfit) for next weekend and I'll book into WIM after the rugby world cup as it will eat into a Saturday.

I appreciate that the slight drop with stock cam bolts is probably okay, but I really want to be able to take the car to Wheels-In-Motion and get them to put their custom geometry setup on it again...

thetyrant · September 18, 2019, 15:00

Good choice im sure you will be happy, dont forget to trim the bumpstops if you want decent ride quality with the lower springs, will be interesting to see if there is any mention of it in with H&R springs as Tein used to advise it but now dont mention it for MR2 on instruction sheet despite spring being same!, if you dont trim them its very firm/bouncy on road!

Topdownman · September 18, 2019, 15:22

Well done on your order.

Looking forward to hearing yourthoughts.

Would be good if you can measure the drop with the H&R springs as the thing I like most about the teins is that they drop the front more than the rear (29/33 from memory) which I think helps stopping the jacked up look of the standard front height

BahnStormer · September 18, 2019, 15:37

Quote from: thetyrant on September 18, 2019, 15:00Good choice im sure you will be happy, dont forget to trim the bumpstops if you want decent ride quality with the lower springs, will be interesting to see if there is any mention of it in with H&R springs as Tein used to advise it but now dont mention it for MR2 on instruction sheet despite spring being same!, if you dont trim them its very firm/bouncy on road!

shocks and springs are going straight to headcase where they will be installed next week - I've passed the message on, although I'm pretty telling him about how to modify an MR2 really is like telling your nan to suck eggs....

Quote from: Topdownman on September 18, 2019, 15:22Would be good if you can measure the drop with the H&R springs as the thing I like most about the teins is that they drop the front more than the rear (29/33 from memory) which I think helps stopping the jacked up look of the standard front height

Pretty sure H&R are 30mm front, 30mm rear... I doubt the 4mm will be noticable.

thetyrant · September 18, 2019, 16:37

Sounds like you got it hand

BahnStormer · October 6, 2019, 19:39

The kit is all fitted - need to test them with my old wheels and tyres (AD08R's) as the summer Conti's (Premium Contact 2's) are a little old and pretty unknown to me and also (I'm guessing) softening the ride up a little.... so far, I'd say that this is a great little alternative to an OEM refresh - definitely firmer than the 100k suspension this car had before I bought it a month ago... and nowhere near as hard as the coilovers I had before... and pretty adjustable: with front and rear Eibach EZ-cam bolts, Tony @ WIM was able to get exactly the same "fast road" geometry that I had on the old BC Racing Coilovers, so pleased as punch right now....

I need to give them a proper workout when I can find some open, dry-ish roads and ideally some tyres that I know a bit better... or have built up some more trust in these tyres....

edit: I can confirm that Premium Contact 2's do NOT "hook up and hold on" like AD08R's... wet or dry.... no real surprise there.... but I reckon they would outbrake AD08R's on most roads.... overall ride and handling are all really controlled and predictable, so I might be able to try to push on a little more before I get the AD08R's back on....

I THINK ( @thetyrant please confirm! ) there's just under 720deg of adjustment, so I've dialed all four corners from full soft to 360deg in from soft (I think that's on the firm side of mid-way).... it wasn't bad before - just a little more floaty than I'd like... ride still seems very compliant and a little more tight and direct than before.... now just need to find B road one morning and see if it's too firm for what I want it for (will it get unsettled on uneven surfaces, etc)...

thetyrant · October 7, 2019, 09:05

Sounds good, its a brilliant setup for the money i think and far more compliant than coilovers which on the road is critical for traction.

Adjustment wise yes i think your right there is 720deg total i think so 2 full rotations, same as most coilover dampers just without a clicker on the top

.. i find +90 from soft ideal for normal road use with decent body control and compliant ride, little mushy if you start pushing hard and i use +180 for sporty road use and wind it nearly all the way stiff on track.

Beachbum957 · October 7, 2019, 11:55

Quote from: thetyrant on October 7, 2019, 09:05Sounds good, its a brilliant setup for the money i think and far more compliant than coilovers which on the road is critical for traction.

Adjustment wise yes i think your right there is 720deg total i think so 2 full rotations, same as most coilover dampers just without a clicker on the top .. i find +90 from soft ideal for normal road use with decent body control and compliant ride, little mushy if you start pushing hard and i use +180 for sporty road use and wind it nearly all the way stiff on track.

We have been running the Tein Koni setup for over a year and normally run at 270 Deg from full soft (3/4 turn) for spirited street driving. It could use just a bit more (1 turn) when pushing really hard. We started at 180 deg which gave a nice ride, but found 270 deg didn't compromise the ride.

On another MR2 with stock springs we run the Konis at about 90 deg (1/4 turn) from full soft front and about 135 deg rear (3/8 turn), which works well everywhere.

BahnStormer · October 7, 2019, 13:41

Thanks for the feedback guys... I'm coming from 4kg/6kg coilovers (And AD08R's), so these progressive Tein's and Conti tyres are pretty pretty comfy, even on "360deg" (halfway soft/hard)... that said, once I've had a few decent runs to set a benchmark, I might dial the fronts back a little and see how noticeable it is.... not point in a firm ride that just jiggles about and loses traction on every B road!

edit: I've slacked the front off half a turn.... so now running 360deg from soft rear and 180 from soft front...

p5ycho · June 5, 2021, 08:53

Quote from: silversprint on July 8, 2019, 22:39
Quote from: shnazzle on June 23, 2019, 20:00I just noticed the HSD coilover bodies with Koni inserts.
Is that a way I can improve my BCs?
If I get the Koni cut-a-strut inserts, could I insert them onto my 4/6kg spring BC setup and get a more compliant ride?
I'm sick of bouncing around now. And having now spent some time in Helen's stock MR2, there's a LOT to be said for stock suspension for compliance. So if I can get a blend, that'd be great

I don't think you can do this with the BC. The HSD case is steel. I have to weld a narrower top on the case so it can compress fit the KOni inserts. The HSD case also has a solid bottom so you can drill a hole for the bottom Koni screw to hold the insert in. The HSD camber plate is the right diameter for the top of the Koni strut. I use to sell the Powertrix/HSD coilovers so I had lots of spare parts laying around to work it and a shock dyno in my house.

You could us the double adjustable koni inserts but they would be harder to install and more expensive.

The easier path if you have the BC is to simply replace the internals with Bilstein pistons, as long as they are the regular and not inverted.. You can valve the bilstein to identical valving as the Koni. I have done this a couple of times. The results are good. The credit goes to this guys who provided the info.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-1st-gen-1993-1997/770149-diy-shock-revalve-parts-1-3-a.html

Either way it does require some knowledge of working of shocks.

Above link is great info! been reading all morning, thanks.