PNP MegaSquirt MS3

[moca2cv]

Randomly came across this on my travels across the internet (I was actually looking for Cosworth brake pads of all things, they are now C-S Pro):

https://www.form7performance.com/collections/mr2-00-05-other/products/megasquirt-3-plug-play-ecu-for-toyota-mr2-spyder-inc-base-map

Looks pretty handy but no information on VVT control or whether it retains OBD functionality (I'd assume not).

It's a high price, but there aren't many PNP solutions out there and MS is pretty easy to tune yourself if you have a base map to play with, TunerStudio is so easy I can use it!

[thetyrant]

Never been fan of ms stuff personally but I know lot do run them, I would rather pay more for a robust solid solution like Link etc as ms stuff can be bit flaky but all depends how fussy you are.

[1979scotte]

Last time I looked MS looked hassle and not cheap enough compared to ecumaster. Although much cheaper than link.

[shnazzle]

That was the case at the time because they didn't have something proper sorted for VVT etc but if there's a PNP solution now, it might be interesting.
It's a powerful platform.
A big faffy

[thetyrant]

I wouldn't call Ms powerful! Yes there are lots of features and things you can do with it but it's cheap for a reason, old tech pretty slow and as you say bit faffy and I would say not good enough for a reliable hassle free em solution.

Don't get me wrong I'm sure it's good fun to fiddle around with for not much money on the basic kits, but when you have used a better system you soon find out why it costs more.

It would be interesting to see what they have done and have a play with
 this pnp setup but at that price I feel its too much money for what it is.

[shnazzle]

I wouldn't call Ms powerful! Yes there are lots of features and things you can do with it but it's cheap for a reason, old tech pretty slow and as you say bit faffy and I would say not good enough for a reliable hassle free em solution.

Don't get me wrong I'm sure it's good fun to fiddle around with for not much money on the basic kits, but when you have used a better system you soon find out why it costs more.

It would be interesting to see what they have done and have a play with
 this pnp setup but at that price I feel its too much money for what it is.

Powerful for sure. There's not a lot you can't do with it. But it's a hell of a faff. More faff than was worth it for us. Hence we went to ECUMASTER.

You're right, the price was actually quite bad. We were quoted about 3k for full install and tune

[1979scotte]

I wouldn't call Ms powerful! Yes there are lots of features and things you can do with it but it's cheap for a reason, old tech pretty slow and as you say bit faffy and I would say not good enough for a reliable hassle free em solution.

Don't get me wrong I'm sure it's good fun to fiddle around with for not much money on the basic kits, but when you have used a better system you soon find out why it costs more.

It would be interesting to see what they have done and have a play with
 this pnp setup but at that price I feel its too much money for what it is.

Powerful for sure. There's not a lot you can't do with it. But it's a hell of a faff. More faff than was worth it for us. Hence we went to ECUMASTER.

You're right, the price was actually quite bad. We were quoted about 3k for full install and tune

3k for MS bloody hell thats up there with a link

[shnazzle]

I wouldn't call Ms powerful! Yes there are lots of features and things you can do with it but it's cheap for a reason, old tech pretty slow and as you say bit faffy and I would say not good enough for a reliable hassle free em solution.

Don't get me wrong I'm sure it's good fun to fiddle around with for not much money on the basic kits, but when you have used a better system you soon find out why it costs more.

It would be interesting to see what they have done and have a play with
 this pnp setup but at that price I feel its too much money for what it is.

Powerful for sure. There's not a lot you can't do with it. But it's a hell of a faff. More faff than was worth it for us. Hence we went to ECUMASTER.

You're right, the price was actually quite bad. We were quoted about 3k for full install and tune

3k for MS bloody hell thats up there with a link

Correct I was quoted 2800 for a full Link G4 install and tune, with pre-install diagnostics

[moca2cv]

It would be interesting to see what they have done and have a play with this pnp setup but at that price I feel its too much money for what it is.

I think £1200 for a pnp with a base map is pretty fair (whack it on autotune and away you go!), but if Ecumaster were to do their classic install and tune £1k deal again I know where I'd be going...

[shnazzle]

It would be interesting to see what they have done and have a play with this pnp setup but at that price I feel its too much money for what it is.

I think £1200 for a pnp with a base map is pretty fair (whack it on autotune and away you go!), but if Ecumaster were to do their classic install and tune £1k deal again I know where I'd be going...

You would need for factor in a 2nd tune though if you're looking for a daily/road-going car. Ecumaster was always 1200 including the sensors and the Bluetooth data recorder thing.

Plus tune you'd be on 1500ish. And then there's the mystery wideband sensor destruction every so often at 90gb a pop,which definitely is still a thing.

[thetyrant]

It would be interesting to see what they have done and have a play with this pnp setup but at that price I feel its too much money for what it is.

I think £1200 for a pnp with a base map is pretty fair (whack it on autotune and away you go!), but if Ecumaster were to do their classic install and tune £1k deal again I know where I'd be going...

£1200 is in theory a good price for pnp solution however the hardware in the case of MS is pretty average at best, also Autotune is just for final tweeks after mapping not for the actual mapping, so you still need to get it mapped its not as simple as base map then just let Autotune loose, its nowhere near good enough even on much higher quality ecus.

Ecumaster is a better option but from what ive read does a fair few bugs and issues which may or may not affect what you do with it, im tempted to try one but will most likely going for Link G4 again as found it a good solid and proven solution on my last Turbo build, so wish i hadnt sold it all

[shnazzle]

If I had to do it again, I don't think I'd aim to spend any less than 2500 on the ECU and mapping.
Money shouldn't be the target of course, it's just that from what I've seen now, if you just want "the best" solution within reason, with longevity and great support for road cars as well as race, that seems to be the price point.

I would also expect mapping to be no less than about 600 for a full setup, power tune and then likely a visit or two back for fine-tuning to make it near to OEM as can be

[1979scotte]

If I had to do it again, I don't think I'd aim to spend any less than 2500 on the ECU and mapping.
Money shouldn't be the target of course, it's just that from what I've seen now, if you just want "the best" solution within reason, with longevity and great support for road cars as well as race, that seems to be the price point.

I would also expect mapping to be no less than about 600 for a full setup, power tune and then likely a visit or two back for fine-tuning to make it near to OEM as can be

We know so much more about the whole process than we did a few years ago don't we.
It's never just one visit or turn on auto tune.
Always costs you more and the tuners are never as good as they think they are either.
I'm sure it's easier if you've got a GTR a Supra or a WRX as it's well supported and they know what they're doing with them. 1zz or a in my case a 1mz not so much.

[shnazzle]

If I had to do it again, I don't think I'd aim to spend any less than 2500 on the ECU and mapping.
Money shouldn't be the target of course, it's just that from what I've seen now, if you just want "the best" solution within reason, with longevity and great support for road cars as well as race, that seems to be the price point.

I would also expect mapping to be no less than about 600 for a full setup, power tune and then likely a visit or two back for fine-tuning to make it near to OEM as can be

We know so much more about the whole process than we did a few years ago don't we.
It's never just one visit or turn on auto tune.
Always costs you more and the tuners are never as good as they think they are either.
I'm sure it's easier if you've got a GTR a Supra or a WRX as it's well supported and they know what they're doing with them. 1zz or a in my case a 1mz not so much.

Exactly. You see it so often. People getting full standalone for their Evos, MX5s, Scoobies, 1JZ cars, LS engines in the US. Not a problem. All been done so many times there's almost an off-the-shelf map for every combination of parts.


But, I do think even just within the club we've made leaps and bounds in progress on this front.
Even to the point of a Speeduino piggyback managing fuel running a supercharger.
Who knew!

I do definitely have a newfound respect for the stock ECU.

[Joesson]

If I had to do it again, I don't think I'd aim to spend any less than 2500 on the ECU and mapping.
Money shouldn't be the target of course, it's just that from what I've seen now, if you just want "the best" solution within reason, with longevity and great support for road cars as well as race, that seems to be the price point.

I would also expect mapping to be no less than about 600 for a full setup, power tune and then likely a visit or two back for fine-tuning to make it near to OEM as can be

We know so much more about the whole process than we did a few years ago don't we.
It's never just one visit or turn on auto tune.
Always costs you more and the tuners are never as good as they think they are either.
I'm sure it's easier if you've got a GTR a Supra or a WRX as it's well supported and they know what they're doing with them. 1zz or a in my case a 1mz not so much.

Exactly. You see it so often. People getting full standalone for their Evos, MX5s, Scoobies, 1JZ cars, LS engines in the US. Not a problem. All been done so many times there's almost an off-the-shelf map for every combination of parts.


But, I do think even just within the club we've made leaps and bounds in progress on this front.
Even to the point of a Speeduino piggyback managing fuel running a supercharger.
Who knew!

I do definitely have a newfound respect for the stock ECU.

Distributor, points, coil, spark plugs, fuel pump, carburettor/s, those were the days, so little to go wrong. But it did!

[1979scotte]

If I had to do it again, I don't think I'd aim to spend any less than 2500 on the ECU and mapping.
Money shouldn't be the target of course, it's just that from what I've seen now, if you just want "the best" solution within reason, with longevity and great support for road cars as well as race, that seems to be the price point.

I would also expect mapping to be no less than about 600 for a full setup, power tune and then likely a visit or two back for fine-tuning to make it near to OEM as can be

We know so much more about the whole process than we did a few years ago don't we.
It's never just one visit or turn on auto tune.
Always costs you more and the tuners are never as good as they think they are either.
I'm sure it's easier if you've got a GTR a Supra or a WRX as it's well supported and they know what they're doing with them. 1zz or a in my case a 1mz not so much.

Exactly. You see it so often. People getting full standalone for their Evos, MX5s, Scoobies, 1JZ cars, LS engines in the US. Not a problem. All been done so many times there's almost an off-the-shelf map for every combination of parts.


But, I do think even just within the club we've made leaps and bounds in progress on this front.
Even to the point of a Speeduino piggyback managing fuel running a supercharger.
Who knew!

I do definitely have a newfound respect for the stock ECU.

If only you could crack  the stock ecu like they do om so many cars like Porsche VW GM etc.

[Dev]

If I had to do it again, I don't think I'd aim to spend any less than 2500 on the ECU and mapping.
Money shouldn't be the target of course, it's just that from what I've seen now, if you just want "the best" solution within reason, with longevity and great support for road cars as well as race, that seems to be the price point.

I would also expect mapping to be no less than about 600 for a full setup, power tune and then likely a visit or two back for fine-tuning to make it near to OEM as can be

We know so much more about the whole process than we did a few years ago don't we.
It's never just one visit or turn on auto tune.
Always costs you more and the tuners are never as good as they think they are either.
I'm sure it's easier if you've got a GTR a Supra or a WRX as it's well supported and they know what they're doing with them. 1zz or a in my case a 1mz not so much.

Autotune is a waste for most applications. It just gets it to the point where its safe to drive on a base map.
I have autotuned the PFC long ago and all it did was make the car have less power. 
  Power comes from tuning on a dyno using a good tuner that knows the software and engine, and then an extensive road tune to clean it up.
Not worth it if you are NA. Some of the units are not very reliable either because they are not built like a tank like the OEM ECU.
The best option for those that want to mess around safely is buying a Camcon unit.

[shnazzle]

In my opinion autotune is just to make small corrections to the fuel table based on real life driving. Areas that can't be simulated on dyno.
It's certainly not to be used as a means to actually create the map

[Dev]

In my opinion autotune is just to make small corrections to the fuel table based on real life driving. Areas that can't be simulated on dyno.
It's certainly not to be used as a means to actually create the map

 I do not mean making a map from scratch which is a very difficult thing to do for a PFC and other ECUs that use them natively as most work from a base map. I found the autotune would ruin the base map that was developed for power that needs to be optimized because power needs to be observed and calculated on a dyno to hit its targets which is often not at the edge of knock or a specific AFR that is programed into the autotune. After that the road tune is necessary for regular driving and from  what DD performance does is more involved process by the operator to get right from what they told me. 
 Maybe some of the newer tech does it better on other platforms but for ours its endless frustration that I actually ended up with more power using a less restrictive downpipe on the OEM ECU which was money better spent. Also if you were to get a great tune it doesn't mean its without consequence especially if it richens the mixture as it can reduce the engines long term reliability and possibly take out the cat prematurely. Just not ideal for a street car.

[shnazzle]

My comment was more intended to supplement yours, not counter it

I would never let autotune dictate any part of wide open throttle power runs. It would indeed destroy it.

But it's very handy for cruise/transfer areas. Still always requires a fair bit of smoothing.
Doing a bit of it as we speak actually... Autotune gives you the bones of it. A bit of sense does the rest.

[1979scotte]

My comment was more intended to supplement yours, not counter it

I would never let autotune dictate any part of wide open throttle power runs. It would indeed destroy it.

But it's very handy for cruise/transfer areas. Still always requires a fair bit of smoothing.
Doing a bit of it as we speak actually... Autotune gives you the bones of it. A bit of sense does the rest.

Let us remember the PFC is old.

[shnazzle]

My comment was more intended to supplement yours, not counter it

I would never let autotune dictate any part of wide open throttle power runs. It would indeed destroy it.

But it's very handy for cruise/transfer areas. Still always requires a fair bit of smoothing.
Doing a bit of it as we speak actually... Autotune gives you the bones of it. A bit of sense does the rest.

Let us remember the PFC is old.

Very.

The auto-tune has largely stayed the same conceptually.
Not much more it can do

[Dev]

My comment was more intended to supplement yours, not counter it

I would never let autotune dictate any part of wide open throttle power runs. It would indeed destroy it.

But it's very handy for cruise/transfer areas. Still always requires a fair bit of smoothing.
Doing a bit of it as we speak actually... Autotune gives you the bones of it. A bit of sense does the rest.

I know and I hope you didn't think otherwise but just relaying some of the autotune systems I did read about from Honda and others that I had the same experience with trying to smoothen things out. I thought it was doing a good job by eliminating knock and keeping the AFRs where I wanted them to be as I smoothened things out at part throttle but what it actually did was lose its responsiveness because it was very limited. What DD performance told me was it needs an experienced operator to do the road tune by hand and usually the base tune is already optimized and just needs a few tweaks compared to how auto tuning handles it. 
 Your autotune is probably more advanced and maybe it handles it better but every time I would reload the map  it was better then what autotune did response wise. 

 

[thetyrant]

Spotted this on one of the Spyder FB pages, looks a good options for a pnp setup using a proper ecu and price wise not so bad even if you factor in UK import and taxes etc - https://panicmade.com/wiring/p/zzw30-link-g4x-pnp-kit-1?fbclid=IwAR3aD6RYKmE_pcz3GgBeUFdkZnTca_1Dgwi8ahrTKJq0dHbWWPAkmbWgMSA

[shnazzle]

Spotted this on one of the Spyder FB pages, looks a good options for a pnp setup using a proper ecu and price wise not so bad even if you factor in UK import and taxes etc - https://panicmade.com/wiring/p/zzw30-link-g4x-pnp-kit-1?fbclid=IwAR3aD6RYKmE_pcz3GgBeUFdkZnTca_1Dgwi8ahrTKJq0dHbWWPAkmbWgMSA

That looks jazzy. What is Link G4X? Some open source platform Link started?