BC coilover settings

[M.Dub]

I'd did some work on the car this weekend and needed to give it a quick test drive, the roads were wet.

So, I hit the first roundabout, not quick but enough and the front of the car understeered slightly which surprised me.

I then encountered another roundabout, gave it a little gas on the exit and had oversteer to the point I needed to correct it, fun and controllable but again surprising how easy it broke traction. I have new toyo tires.

So, currently I think the coilovers  are set fully soft on the rear and not sure on the front, Iv not had the car long and had bigger things to worry about.

So my question is, what do you think the best damper setup is for road use?

[Dev]

Thats a loaded question.
 
The BC and other Taiwanese budget suspension is not very good for street use  because it is too stiff without enough damping because of the lack of shock oil being a cartridge design. They are not researched like the name brands from Europe and Japan and just mostly stiff which causes the car to come to the edge of traction very early showing its limits with the tires losing grip especially with irregular roads and bumps. The best thing for a stiff suspension is sticky tires. You can play around with various springs rates and damping settings but the fault is almost always with the the cartridge type design. 

[M.Dub]

The car is very stiff and as you say it doesn't feel like the BCs are very good for general roads. It really did slide easily. Might just set them to full soft and work it from there.

I bought this car as a toy so it's not a daily drive.

[shnazzle]

As a non-BC-hater, I would say that it depends entirely on temperature. I tend to have a winter and summer setting.
Winter I have them set to about 3 clicks from soft. In summer about 13 clicks. On the odd occasion that I get the car properly hot on a winter drive (can't even remember that happening) I would stop and tighten them up a bit. Couple of clicks max.

This sounds a lot more like typical Toyo behaviour to be honest. Understeer, understeer, understeOVERSTEERRRR!
On toyos, I would try actually having the rear "looser". So maybe 6clicks front, 3 rear

Full soft is terrible and anything over 15 clicks is unusable on public roads.

But yeah... To be fair.. They are budget coilies

[M.Dub]

I'll put messing with the settings on the job list for weekend lol.

Thanks

[Dev]

The car is very stiff and as you say it doesn't feel like the BCs are very good for general roads. It really did slide easily. Might just set them to full soft and work it from there.

I bought this car as a toy so it's not a daily drive.

I know many that have or had the BC and I helped a few owners with their set ups. They were able to manage with trying different spring rates and some fooling around with damper settings to make them better but its still overly dampened and a bit bouncy. You can do the best you can and still enjoy them to some extent but what I would do is eventually change them out down the road for a ride that is more comfortable with better traction. The big difference is a quality set will be a lot more confidence inspiring.

[shnazzle]

I can't argue with the above.
I've had a hoot on my BCs but they are definitely bouncy.
I'd go so far as to say unsuitable and even unsafe on b-roads with bad road surfaces. You will float over bumps, and worse, it stops your ABS working properly. I've had to resort to pumping brakes old-fashion-style to brake hard.

On flat roads in the warm they're peachy. Probably absolutely fine on track. Good even? But public roads..i wouldn't recommend them.

[JB21]

Not BC's here but similar MeisteR's and I run full soft on the road and dont have an issue with handling, rates are 5kg front and 7kg rear. Mine is fully braced, F&R ARB's and 6 point cage so a STIFF chassis, damping is acceptable for what they are though.

[Petrus]

You will float over bumps, and worse, it stops your ABS working properly.

Real world road surface is a wórld away from track tarmac, even ´bumpy´ tracks.

The ABS juttering, getting confused because of a bouncing wheel is a REAL potential problem of for the circumstance badly working shocks.
It is also disconcerting and that is an understatement. Much more so than understeer.

When the shocks are worn or otherwise subideal, it becomes paramount to load the front befóre braking to the max.
By applying the pressure on the pedal gradually, the front springs will compress by the shifting weight and the wheels will hop less thus allowing the abs to do the job and top the car.
It is a bit counterinstinctive but you really have way shorter stopping distance than by applying full on pressure from the go.

This seems off topic but the worse the condition/match of the shocks is, the more critical braking skill is.


Directly on topic I would like to second Dev´s observation that the easiest ´remedie´ is the stickiests of rubbers.
The best rubber for the circumstances/use is the best investment towards a well/safe handling car ALLWAYS, but in case of suboptimal shocks more critical.


At to the wet conditions, the availeble max traction is less obviously and the max conering speed will go down considerably, meaning the suspension will need to be accordingly softer.
Ask any motorbike racer, ardent track day addict and he/she will tell you that a Q&D dry to wet change is setting springs and damping softer.

@M.Dub make sure you jot all down.
Also ONLY adjust based on comparisons on the same bit of road.
It is all too easy to get lost. Adjustability is a serious down side of adjustable suspensions.

Btw. Hów new are the rubbers. They need some use to scrub in and also heat cycle.
Furthermore you don´t say which Toyos. The more track oriented ones need to be on temperature.
On the wet it can very well be that the tyres are simply not performing as you expect.
The Yoko AD08R is a véry good rubber both dry and wet but on wet chílly mornings can totally change the game. This illustrates that a given is no issue because predictable; you can drive acordingly.

[shnazzle]

As I've said before; the BCs after 40k are dangerous and no longer fit for purpose. Mine have done about 60k.
They don't work anymore. They're done. Hence all the issues. And also why I barely drive the damn thing. It's no fun and I can't afford to replace the shocks so... End.

No need for science or finding ways to better load it, or tyre choice etc. The shocks are dead and just not suitable for public use. They need one destination to go to... The bin

The Rainsports are fantastic. I should have gone to them years ago instead of pretending to be the pro driver I am not on AD08s

[Dev]

You will float over bumps, and worse, it stops your ABS working properly.

It is all too easy to get lost. Adjustability is a serious down side of adjustable suspensions.

 This is what most do not get with cheap one way adjustable. When you turn the dial its not equal amounts of compression and rebound and just softer. It messes  up the way the car needs to absorb to keep the tire glued to the pavement. If the springs are not matched to the valving you have another mismatch over powering the dampers ability to control. You cant simply try to tune the suspension to suit your needs unless all of the above has been worked out by the manufacture and then the dials are usually within a very narrow range.
 Another issue is the mono tube design is a bad choice for road use. If you look at all of the high end street coil over designs they use twin tube because they are far more durable with better irregular road damping and comfort. However if you want or need a mono tube strut for racing at the very least get one that doesn't use a cartridge design because the volume of shock oil is everything.
 

[M.Dub]

You will float over bumps, and worse, it stops your ABS working properly.

Real world road surface is a wórld away from track tarmac, even ´bumpy´ tracks.

The ABS juttering, getting confused because of a bouncing wheel is a REAL potential problem of for the circumstance badly working shocks.
It is also disconcerting and that is an understatement. Much more so than understeer.

When the shocks are worn or otherwise subideal, it becomes paramount to load the front befóre braking to the max.
By applying the pressure on the pedal gradually, the front springs will compress by the shifting weight and the wheels will hop less thus allowing the abs to do the job and top the car.
It is a bit counterinstinctive but you really have way shorter stopping distance than by applying full on pressure from the go.

This seems off topic but the worse the condition/match of the shocks is, the more critical braking skill is.


Directly on topic I would like to second Dev´s observation that the easiest ´remedie´ is the stickiests of rubbers.
The best rubber for the circumstances/use is the best investment towards a well/safe handling car ALLWAYS, but in case of suboptimal shocks more critical.


At to the wet conditions, the availeble max traction is less obviously and the max conering speed will go down considerably, meaning the suspension will need to be accordingly softer.
Ask any motorbike racer, ardent track day addict and he/she will tell you that a Q&D dry to wet change is setting springs and damping softer.

@M.Dub make sure you jot all down.
Also ONLY adjust based on comparisons on the same bit of road.
It is all too easy to get lost. Adjustability is a serious down side of adjustable suspensions.

Btw. Hów new are the rubbers. They need some use to scrub in and also heat cycle.
Furthermore you don´t say which Toyos. The more track oriented ones need to be on temperature.
On the wet it can very well be that the tyres are simply not performing as you expect.
The Yoko AD08R is a véry good rubber both dry and wet but on wet chílly mornings can totally change the game. This illustrates that a given is no issue because predictable; you can drive acordingly.

Wow there's obviously a lot to think about! Iv never had coilovers before so its all new.

I'm not ready to start messing with the full setups just wondered if I could make the car a little better quickly with the knobs.

The tires are toyo proxy R

I bought this car with the intention of using it on the track and not really much road use.

[Gaz mr-s]

The tires are toyo proxy R
 

Do you mean T1-R?

I don't think they're close to being regarded as a 'track tyre'.

[Petrus]

The Rainsports are fantastic. I should have gone to them years ago instead of pretending to be the pro driver I am not on AD08s

You are hopping over a rather serious point; stopping distance: The AD08Rs stop a LÓT shorter under even most UK conditions. This also apllies to the safety margin in braking while still maintaining control over where you go.
100 or even 200€ more for a set of rubbers that stop significantly shorter seems money well spent to me. Especially in a world full of 2000+ kilo SUVs with hurry.

[moca2cv]

Late to the party here but for general road work I am quite happy with 8 clicks from soft all round.
Having BCs on this and a previous track car, and then experiencing HKS coilovers on a previous daily, The difference is night and day. But BCs work great for the money.

My top tip is to get the chassis as stiff as you can so the suspension has a chance to work. The BCs are quite stiff, yes, but the more your chassis flexes the less the BCs will do. Sounds counterintuitive from a comfort point of view but it works.

[1979scotte]

No body has mentioned wheel alignment.
Has the car had a full 4 wheel alignment makes a world of difference.

As for the original AD08R still my favourite tyre for the mr2. Possibly not if I had daily driven or lived up north but perfect my my weekend use south of the Thames.

[Zxrob]

Seeing as the norm for BC/Meister is 5/7kgmm, would it be more approprite to go 4/6 set up

Reason I ask is I'm considering coilovers for mainly road use with a few trackdays

Rob

[Iain]

Seeing as the norm for BC/Meister is 5/7kgmm, would it be more approprite to go 4/6 set up

Reason I ask is I'm considering coilovers for mainly road use with a few trackdays

Rob

Personally for mainly road use with the odd track day id stick to oem setup or similar.

I track mine fairly reguarly and its on fresh kyb shocks and eibach lowering springs. Yes it could be stiffer on track, is that always better? Not in my opinion, especially with the budget coilovers.

Ive followed, stuck with and even past plenty of similar cars (mx5s, clios etc) on track days with them sitting on coilovers and most of them look a pig to handle, skipping across the surface.

Suspension setup is a very complex thing and throwing some cheap coilovers on rarely results in a good handling car.

[Dev]

Seeing as the norm for BC/Meister is 5/7kgmm, would it be more approprite to go 4/6 set up

Reason I ask is I'm considering coilovers for mainly road use with a few trackdays

Rob

Personally for mainly road use with the odd track day id stick to oem setup or similar.

I track mine fairly reguarly and its on fresh kyb shocks and eibach lowering springs. Yes it could be stiffer on track, is that always better? Not in my opinion, especially with the budget coilovers.

Ive followed, stuck with and even past plenty of similar cars (mx5s, clios etc) on track days with them sitting on coilovers and most of them look a pig to handle, skipping across the surface.

Suspension setup is a very complex thing and throwing some cheap coilovers on rarely results in a good handling car.

 Im not the only one that has seen the skipping in front of me. I know I sound like a broken record but these cheap coilovers actually lose traction easily on real roads slowing you down. The owner tries to remedy it with softer springs but its still undampened and a very harsh ride. I do not know about the track but I am willing to wager if someone tried a set of KWs they would dominate as I have seen a few that did and were punching well above their class.

[shnazzle]

I concur. Unless it's a lovely warm, dry day on flat roads with no potholes, the likes of BC etc just make your car harder to drive

I've been on BCs with 4/6kg for about 6 years now I think