Trackday at Anglsey - Experiments with early vs late alloys

[BenF]

I've just get back in from a top weekend away at what has to be one of the best and most enjoyable circuits in the UK.

I'd just got my Roadster back from having the PE Turbo kit kit + Unichip fitted at Millway on Wednesday - the car is running well, I just need to do some final tuning (but that's for another post - Greddy Profec and eManage may be on the cards ..)

Anglesey has a great mix of height changes, corners and bends that can either be driven 'technically' for a good lap time, or if the track is clear you can goon sideways through corners - come in too fast, get the car sideways and scrub off speed whilst on the throttle and collect the car on the exit - huge fun ...

Standard 2003 alloys

I first tried the standard Mk3 alloys with 185/55 A539s on the front @ 32psi, and Yoko A043s in 215/45/R16 @ 36 psi on the rear. This give me good inital turn in to corners, but would soon wash out into understeer in tighter corners.

This surprised me as at Bruntingthorpe a couple of weeks back the car felt fine - but the corners were all taken at speeds above 40mph, so the problem wouldn't have been noticable.

Checking the tyre pressure differences they should have been more like 6psi than 4 front to rear, so I took out 2psi from the fronts bringing them to 30psi - this didn't cure understeer. I tried one last step of adding 2psi to the rears so I had 30F 38R but the understeer was still present in slow and medium speed corners that needed big steering inputs. I gave up at this point - even allowing for differences between tyres (A539 and A043) the pressures should have made a reasonable difference. So I tried something else ...

Early 15" alloys

I then swapped the tyres and rims for some earlier 15" roadster alloys, with 195/50 S03s on the front, and 205/50 T1-Ss on the rear, 30psi front and 36psi rear.

I was expecting this setup on the revised 2003 suspension to give me huge amounts of oversteer as it had only 1 size difference front to rear rather than three, but I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised. The car felt well balanced and with less rubber on the road at the rear it felt much more willing to move around, but in a nicely progressive way rather than snappy "bin-me-into-the-nearest-tyre-wall" way.

After a couple of sessions with this setup, I was gooning around sideways at most places at the circuit - I was laughing so hard at one point after power sliding the car all the way through Abbotts I had to slow down to wipe my eyes  s:) s:)

All in all, the earlier 15" alloys suited my style of track driving very well, and I have to say I actually preferred them to the later tyre setup which had too much understeer IMO. The early 205 tyres were also fine with the additional torque from the PE turbo kit.

One of the things I decided as a result of the day was to go for some Yokohama Advan Neova LTS tyres for the 2003 alloys. They originally were especially developed for the S1 Elise. They have stiffer, squarer sidewalls which will give more grip and feedback than even T1Rs, and should be ideal for a planned trip to the Nurburgring. Checking around  w www.eliseparts.com w  does a set of 4 for around £400.

I've got some incriminating photo's below - this was from one lap near the end of the session where I ended turning into the hairpin with a little too much speed, which resulted in me getting incredibly sideways, as captured below.

I was actually against the end locks of the steering rack, but kept it balanced (just) on the throttle and caught it on the way out, along with a fair bit of tread turned into tyre smoke.

I have to say, it wasn't what I would have intended with cars following me, but that hairpin has to be one of the best places to goon around sideways on in the UK ..  

Turn in ..



Hmm, opposite lock already required ..



... keep it balanced ...



Hmm - is that the end stops of the steering rack .. ?



Getting ready to wind off all that steering lock ...



Well, I was wanting to replace the rears with some Advan Neova LTS's anyway. Nice smoke though  s:D s:D



And away we go ..



For reference - I would *never* drive like this on a public road. That's why I do trackdays in a safe environment and enjoy them so much ...

(edit - fixed typo x2! ...)

[juansolo]

Now where'd I put that apex?   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:    s:P s:P

[so.simple]

Ultra-cool!   s8) s8)

[aaronjb]

Now where'd I put that apex?   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:    s:P s:P

Ben seemed to leave his about eight feet from the inside of the corner...  s;) s;)

Looks fun, though.. One of these days, maybe I'll actually make it to a track day, or an airfield day.. or something..  s:) s:)

[BenF]

Now where'd I put that apex?   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:    s:P s:P

Ben seemed to leave his about eight feet from the inside of the corner...  s;) s;)

Looks fun, though.. One of these days, maybe I'll actually make it to a track day, or an airfield day.. or something..  s:) s:)

Heh heh - Apex - wassat? I was a little too fast into that one which caused the oversteer ... I could drive it 'properly' and do rapid laps, but that isn't what I enjoy - the reason I do trackdays is to improve my car control and judgement at 10/10ths.

The aim of this trackday for me was to get to know the Roadster better, and deliberately get it out of shape and catch /correct /predict what was going to happen. It is really nicely progressive and playfull, certainly a good trackday toy.

Aaron - if you fancy a passenger ride sometime, let me know  s;) s;)

[so.simple]

Ben, just noticed, after looking at your pictures for the 1000th time, that you had what appears to be a camera mount on the right side of your car... Am I right?

Assuming it is, two questions pop into my mind:

  s:arrow: :arrow: s:arrow:  What camera mount is that and how much did it cost?
  s:arrow: :arrow: s:arrow:  When can we see this "maneuvre" in video?

[mrsmr2]

Quality information on the wheels and tyres Ben.

Great control.  Do you think you would have achieved the same slide without the turbo?

Jason

[BenF]

Ben, just noticed, after looking at your pictures for the 1000th time, that you had what appears to be a camera mount on the right side of your car... Am I right?

Assuming it is, two questions pop into my mind:

  s:arrow: :arrow: s:arrow:  What camera mount is that and how much did it cost?
  s:arrow: :arrow: s:arrow:  When can we see this "maneuvre" in video?

Heh heh, good spot. Yes, its a small bullet cam, with a camcorder inside the car recording the footage.

Camera  : RF Concepts in Belfast

I got the 21CWSHR which is a high res sony CCD with a couple of different lenses. For the footage I think I used the standard lens for that which is quite a wide angle lens.

Suction mount : B- Hague - its their "CAMCORDER MOUNTING KIT CMK"

To record the footage, I used the AV input on a Canon MV650i camera - but you can get (eg) in car VHS recorders for under £100 - or pick up on ebay old Canon MV450i's which are also fine for this sort of thing.

To power it all, I have an in car dc-dc coverter to bring everything down to 9v for the camera and microphone, with some custom mods to smooth the powersupply a little more.

As for the footage .... well, I've got to confess I forgot to start the camera recording before I left the pitlane for that session  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:    s:( s:(  

It would have been great to have got that on camera, but never mind. I did get some footage from the next session, and I have a few little slides around the hairpin but nothing as huge as the pics above.

I'm just editing it all up and will post the URLs later this week...

[BenF]

Quality information on the wheels and tyres Ben.

Great control.  Do you think you would have achieved the same slide without the turbo?

Jason

Hope its usefull. I was quite impressed with the S-03s and T1-Rs, they didn't look too badly overheated even after some severe abuse from me, and probably were in better condition than the A043s.

As for that particular side, power wasn't a factor at all - I'm sure you could have done it with a standard roadster. Basically I carried too much speed into the corner, and turned in too sharply. (I also found the Roadster's ABS was very good under braking into the corner, tripping on the inside wheels if I was trail braking into the corner)

As a result the rear got loose - I was driving that on part thottle, probably full throttle as the car comes straight again and the steering lock comes off. You can't back off completely as you end up spinning right the way round 180 degrees to the inside of the hairpin - I found this out on my old Mk2 turbo - here's a clip of in car 'oops' footage, the hairpin clip is the last one of the four:

 m http://home.btconnect.com/benf2/Mk2_vid ... y_Oops.wmv m

[Chris]

I'd love to know what the seat driver was thinking!!  plus that porsche looks a little racey, was it actually quick?

When are you planning on heading over to the ring ben?  I could be persuaded to join ya, if the times right..   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[BenF]

I'd love to know what the seat driver was thinking!!  plus that porsche looks a little racey, was it actually quick?

When are you planning on heading over to the ring ben?  I could be persuaded to join ya, if the times right..   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

The Seat driver was a nice guy - I had a chat to him at the end of the day. He'd got a large IHI turbo from a scooby installed, running 1.5bar and pushing 350bhp.

Both were very quick and competing in the Hillclimb the following day - they had cut slicks on which gives them a 2-3 second per lap advantage around Anglesey over a Roadster on Road tyres, so I was quite happy to just keep up with them on certain sections of the track.

The Nurburgring trip is happening 8th -11th July. There are about 8 or 10 of us going in a variety of cars - Mk1 MR2s, RX7s, etc - we've all owned MR2s at one point or another. The plan is to stay in Koblenz which is about 30 minutes drive away from the circuit, and travel to/ from the circuit each day.

If you're interested in coming along, the general plot is to grab a 7am Seacat from Dover on Friday morning, drive to Nurburg arriving for 3-4pm, get a few slow laps in on Friday night from 5pm to 7pm.

The circuit is open all day Satuday and Sunday - its best to do laps first thing in the morning when it is quiet. Its gets busy around the middle of the day, but quietens down at the end of the day which is another good time to get some clear laps in.

Travelling back- we'll be coming back on Monday, leaving at 10am, arriving Calais around 4-5pm allowing for a little shopping before grabbing a Seacat back to the UK around 6-8pm. Others are travelling from Scotland to Hull and crossing from there to Zeebrugge - we'll pick them up en-route ..

Should be a really good weekend.  If you fancy joining us, you'd be very welcome.

There's lots more info (including details of the Hotel) here :
 m http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4798 m

[Chris]

ah, a little too soon for me to arrange things..   s:cry: :cry: s:cry:  

I'll keep an eye on imoc for the next trip and see if i can make that, otherwise i'm hoping to get back out for the august bank holiday...

edit: when i wrote this, i mistook the 8-11th july for 8-11th june - ie next week!! but still, no cash flow demands that i will have to give it a miss..

[BenF]

I do know of another trip that is happening in the middle of Septmeber - the circuit has very few weekends that it is open in August. The trip in September (i'm not sure if I can make it myself) is Friday - Monday, with the circut being open for half days over the weekend ..

Edit  : Here are the details from the group of folks I know who are going out then:

The trip will be over the w/e of the 17/18th Sept.

Personally I am favouring the following:

Outbound Dover-Calais: 16th Sept 06:45
Inbound Calais-Dover  : 19th Sept 16:45

[Chris]

Ben,

i've put those dates in my diary so hopefully i'll be able to srt something out   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Just read the (very) long post on the imoc site about the upcoming july trip, and was surprised to read that the berghotel hohe acht has gone bust - it was certainly still trading when i was there at easter..  i suppose that although it's close to the entrance, there's not much else around, unless you head to Adenau, which is where i stayed - at the sliders incidentally   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  )

[BenF]

Ben,

i've put those dates in my diary so hopefully i'll be able to srt something out   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Given time and enough holiday, I'll be going too - but I won't know for sure until August, and so will be booking up quite late. There's usually no problem getting reasonably priced ferries and accomodation even quite late like that.

As the circuit isn't open for full days, it probably will be a bit quieter than other weekends.

Just read the (very) long post on the imoc site about the upcoming july trip, and was surprised to read that the berghotel hohe acht has gone bust - it was certainly still trading when i was there at easter..  i suppose that although it's close to the entrance, there's not much else around, unless you head to Adenau, which is where i stayed - at the sliders incidentally   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  )

Yeah, the Berghotel was either ringing out when I rang, and then I was getting Number Unobtainable - I can remember driving past last year and it looked decidedly closed. The number I've got is +49 (2691) 471 - is that the one you've got?

Hmm, just wondering if we're talking about the same place - its fairly remote, up near Hohe Acht at the junction netwen two fairly large roads - there are views from the front of it over fields to a odown into a valley over field - does that sound right?

I guess it could have re-opened though - there was an elderly couple and their son running the place when I've stayed there before.

[Chris]

been looking for the number i had from last time, but could only find piccies

anyway, sounds about right - you take the road past the brunnchen viewing area and then turn left  - the hotel is on the left with a gravel parking area over the road opposite.  If you carry on down the road that runs past it, then you get to the back of the circuit - near breidschied (sp?) i think..

[BenF]

Chris,

Yeah - that's the place I was thinking of! If you do find a telephone number for them that would be great - I'll try giving them a ring again, maybe their phone line was faulty.

Did you try some of their 'Racing Driver Schnapps'? I've got hazy recollections of doing that one evening ...!

[Chris]

Found the number, for future reference: (+49) 02691-471.

How was the weekend trip?  any stories/piccies?

[BenF]

Yeah, was a great trip - I've got a write up and pics which I'll post links to shortly.

Found out that the PE turbo kit + Unichip produces some impressive flames - I did some sighting laps for people who'd not driven it before and they said they were distracted by the flames that were coming out of the back when I lifted off  s;) s;)

Nice, but not ideal - the extra fuel may be washing oil from the cylinder bores causing a little extra cylinder wear, but only on gear shifts.

The one other thing I watched closely via the OBD-II interface were the coolant temps when I was driving uphill flat out in 4th gear near redline (~110mph) - there was enough airflow to keep them down to ~93C which was very good. I dare say the oil temps were a little higher though!

I've got some datalogged laps which I've yet to download and analyse - that plus some video footage will be sorted this weekend.

[Anonymous]

Found out that the PE turbo kit + Unichip produces some impressive flames - I did some sighting laps for people who'd not driven it before and they said they were distracted by the flames that were coming out of the back when I lifted off  s;) s;)

Ah, did Martin not tell you about that? I remember an airfield day at Keevil (possibly his first 'public' outing after the turbo conversion?), where we could see the flames from the other side of the airfield   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  (I've video somewhere...)

I seem to recall a few other drivers backing off his tail somewhat, perhaps scared of melting something...  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Chris]

Yeah, I've got some footage from Anglsey with some big flames as well...    s:wink: :wink: s:wink: