Toyo T1-R vs. Bridgestone 040

[Anonymous]

Do those of you who've replaced stock Bridgestone 040's with Toyo T1-R's perceive that you've given up the go-kart-like turn-in, provided by the stiffer sidewalls in the Bridgestone 040's?

I'm wondering if the Bridgestone S03's might be a better (go-kart-like-steering) choice.  Yes, I know that the Bridgestone S03's are more expensive than the Toyo T1-R's.

I'm also wondering about the Toyo T1-R improved acceleration (since they're  lighter) vs. less crisp steering tradeoff.

Thanks, in advance, for your thoughts ...

[Anonymous]

I've gone to the T1-S's from the 040's, and they are a much superior tyre in everyway: In feel, in grip (both wet and dry), and also in looks (if such a thing is possible with tyres!).

If you're prepared to spend the extra though then I'd go with the S03's, as I've yet to hear from anyone who hasn't had only good things to say about them.

[Anonymous]

I've gone to the T1-S's from the 040's, and they are a much superior tyre in everyway: In feel, in grip (both wet and dry),

... and how `bout the turn-in question?
Did you feel that the T1-S provided less crisp turn-in than your 040's?

[Anonymous]

I'd say it was far better, actually. As soon as I set off with them on, I knew that I'd made the right choice. They're far grippier on turn-in than the 040's, and I found I could take corners a lot quicker than before.

The only real downside to them that I've found is general road noise when cruising at motorway speeds, but I just turn the stereo up to counter that.   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[mrsmr2]

I think the RE040s were better, they had better feel and better turn in.

In the dry, mine feels like the wheels are heavier than before as there is more delay in turn in.  Also, I could dart about more on the motorway.  Now I turn, wait, and then have to correct a bit.  Before, I could turn and move smartly into another lane with minimal correction.  Don't know if that makes sense.

In the wet the T1-Rs are good - not that the RE040s weren't.

Maybe the T1-Rs have more frip and they certainly like to be thrashed around bends, but so did the RE040s.

I would like to try RE040s again just to see if the problem is due to my Rose tinted specs.

I might track mine at Elvington (rather than use my barely legal RE040s) and see if I can spot any differences that way.

However, the T1-Rs have eradicated the really annoying tramlining that the RE040s had.

I'd be interested if hear about the S03s as they are meant to be very good tyres.

Jason

[markiii]

the s03 are great, unless it snows in which case they have no grip at all.

were it not for teh yokohama neovas thats what I would be buying next.

[Anonymous]

In the dry, mine feels like the wheels are heavier than before as there is more delay in turn in.  Also, I could dart about more on the motorway.  Now I turn, wait, and then have to correct a bit.  Before, I could turn and move smartly into another lane with minimal correction.  Don't know if that makes sense.

However, the T1-Rs have eradicated the really annoying tramlining that the RE040s had.

Thanks, Jason.  It does, indeed, make sense.  What you're describing is attributable to the differences between soft vs. stiff sidewalls.

The Bridgestones and BF Goodrich KD's (and track-only tires, like Hoosiers)  employ relatively stiff sidewalls, which contribute to that go-kart-like turn-in.  On the downside, stiff sidewalled tires are also more susceptible to tramlining.

Toyo, on the other hand, employs relatively softer sidewalls, which might partially explain their (less) weight advantage, too.  These result in less tramlining, but more squishy, less precise turn-in ... i.e. less go-kart-like feel.  

Note that turn-in precision is entirely different from ultimate grip, once the tire has competed turn-in; thus, a tire with soft, sloppy turn-in may have equal ultimate grip to another tire.  It's just that the slow turn-in tire doesn't get to apply that ulimate grip as soon.

So, we make our choices ... and live with the compromises.  There are no perfect tires - only compromises, acceptable to individual drivers.  What we're trying to find out by exchanging observations is exactly what those compromises are ... so we can make more informed choices.

[Anonymous]

I've had the same question as the OP.  I started a tire pole over at spyderchat which compares different tire replacement choices.  You might want to check it out.

To Vote:
 m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=24854 m

To View:
 m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtop ... viewresult m



Thanks.

Gary

[mrsmr2]

Inconclusive then   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Anonymous]

i didnt have any choice, mine can with bridgestone RE 040 on the front and Avon zv1 on the rear, a new set all round,  i have got  nothing to compare it to but they do turn in quick, the problem was high speed turns, around 90 the car felt light and twitchy at the front and seemed to steer from the rear!!. i had the tracking checked, "front near sides slightly out" he said 23 quid, do you want to bother,  yes cheaper than tyres, it sorted the problem. now a happy chappy

[heathstimpson]

i didnt have any choice, mine can with bridgestone RE 040 on the front and Avon zv1 on the rear, a new set all round,  i have got  nothing to compare it to but they do turn in quick, the problem was high speed turns, around 90 the car felt light and twitchy at the front and seemed to steer from the rear!!. i had the tracking checked, "front near sides slightly out" he said 23 quid, do you want to bother,  yes cheaper than tyres, it sorted the problem. now a happy chappy

But you still have mixed tyres front and back which is not a good think for handling on a 2  s:? :? s:?

[BenF]

FWIW, I've used S02, S03 and F1's on a Mk2, and OEM 2003 Yokos on a 2003 and A539, and currently have Yokohama Advan Neovas.

Differences betwee S02 and S03 - the S02 was better, but wore more rapidly. You can't buy them anymore, so perhaps academic. I did find that brake-away in the wet with S-03s wasn't very well communicated even though they had fairly stiff sidewalls.

Goodyear F1 GSD2s were my choice for the Mk2 Turbo - same dry grip as S03s, less wet grip - but much more communicative, and so confidence inspiring to drive.

For the Roadster ... I'd recommend the Yokohama Advan Neova LTS's if you have some 2003 alloys. Progressiveness and communication on the limit is excellent - noise, ride quality and Tramlining are no worse than standard IMO.

Markiii had a drive around some of his favorite roundabouts in them and gave them the thumbs up. Really, you owe it to your Roadster and yourself to get some if you enjoy driving it to the full  s:) s:)

[heathstimpson]

What sort of price are we looking at for these Yokos Ben  s:?: :?: s:?:

[roger]

Just out of interest........ looking at the Bridgestone site and they recommend the RE720, admittedly designated SUMMER.

Anybody had any thoughts on these?

[Anonymous]

i understand what you say about mixed tyres, and i coundnt agree more, the point i was trying to make, but not very well, is that the tracking must be spot on, at least i can now live with these tyres until next year. Any observations on removing the spare wheel, does it make the front end light?  does it alter turn in? what type of tyre repair kit do you use if you run without it?

[markiii]

What sort of price are we looking at for these Yokos Ben  s:?: :?: s:?:

since they are only officially available to Lotus dealers (though BAT can get them)

circa £400 per set

[spyderman]

Any recommended tire pressure in stock 2000 wheels, having in mind that the tires has soft side walls?

[Anonymous]

Had a look on the interweb yesterday for Yoko Advan Neovas and there are a few sizes available. I was interested to see that as well as the ones to suit the old Elise S1 there are also 175x16 fr and 225x17 rr. Makes you wonder about the suspension set up required to avoid understeer with this width unless they're for the 340R or something.

[dieamond]

I made Yoko -> S03 -> T1S -> S03

I must say I love T1S

I love the feel it gives to the car
They are very soft, have a very short life time, but they simply feel very good.

And they cost half the price of the S03

[mrsmr2]

Since Elvington at the weekend, I've left the pressures at track setting.

I've noticed that the turn in is significatntly increased and feels more like the RE040s.  The downside is that the grip is down so there it's more understeery.

This morning I let them down to 27.5 on the fronts and 33 at the back.  Still have a sharper feel to them but understeer is still there.

My guage slightly overreads so I'm probably running close to stock settings e.g. about 26.5, 32.5 in reality.

On the RE040s I used 25 front, 32 rear according to my guage - so probaly 24, 31 in reality.

Still can't decide which I prefer.

Jason

[BenF]

What sort of price are we looking at for these Yokos Ben  s:?: :?: s:?:

Well, I did a fair bit of hunting around. Basically, they are only available to Lotus Dealers, or dealers with a relationship with Lotus - you can't order them in from Yokohama distributors direct (I tried!) as they don't know about the Advan Neova LTS AD-06 tyre ( to give it its full spec)

Bookatrack do them, but when I needed them they didn't have a full set in stock - so I ended up getting mine from  w www.eliseparts.com w  with near next day delivery.

I've done ~7,000 miles and 15 laps of the Nurbugring with them, and the rears look to have 5-6mm of tread left on them - they should be good another 7-10k miles. The fronts are only very lightly worn and probably will last 2-3 changes of rear tyres!

[markiii]

Had a look on the interweb yesterday for Yoko Advan Neovas and there are a few sizes available. I was interested to see that as well as the ones to suit the old Elise S1 there are also 175x16 fr and 225x17 rr. Makes you wonder about the suspension set up required to avoid understeer with this width unless they're for the 340R or something.

those are s2 elise sizes