I have bought a PFL car, so 15" all around. Been thinking about going 16" at the rear. Is it worth it? Or at least any negative points?

For tyres, I know there seems to be a lot of controversy. The car currently has Toyo Proxes T1R. But I hear they are not well regarded? Car came with them.

The tyres I keep seeing recommended are Yokohama AD08RS and Michelin PS3. Tyres are for summer only. I don't drive the car in winter.

For wheels, I was thinking of going Advanti_Storm_S1. But a dealer told me they are no longer made.

I also like the looks of the Kosei K1. But no idea if they are heavier than stock. If I can't go lighter, I would like to at least not go heavier.

Thanks in advance for your input.

16" rear will have been used by Toyota for marketing purposes, or because tyres became available in 16".

Nowadays the reverse is the problem, no new 'sporty' tyres are being made in 15", & less than 17" and above.

I think you have to go to a 195 front for Michelin PS3,  But I don't know why you'd want to anyway, the PS3 is a very old tyre.

In the last year or so they were featured in tyre tests Falken & Hankook bettered them.

You mention wheel weight..... the 16" rear is quite a bit heavier.  The 15" front is light... to get lighter probably needs forged wheels.

I'm not sure if the AD08 available in pfl front & rear, but probably your grippiest option.  The old AD08 suffered grip loss with heat cycles it's said, - don't know about the new one.  Summer use only though....semi-slick maybe?

@Zens

Funnily enough I have just gone the other way. From 16 to 15 rears. I think Mr T got it right 1st time.
I don't dislike 16s far from it. But the 15s bring something extra to the party.

Is there something you don't like about the 15s that gives you concern?
What are your thoughts, that prompted the question.

To echo Gaz. One thing you don't want, is to go heavier, and to go lighter, usually requires many wine tokens.

If its tyre choice, it's a nightmare either way.
Shame you are so far away, otherwise yes you most certainly need a pair of 16's, which I just happen to have for sale. 

For me it goes on what look you prefer, no real drawbacks of either. I prefer the 15s on the rear. You'll do well to notice any weight difference going with 16s, i dont when i swap my FL to PFL wheels on track days. 

Nothing wrong with a T1R tyre, but then again tyre choice is completely dependant on what you plan to do with the car, and what budget you have.

As for the PS3, you can get them in FL rear size, i have them. Been brilliant tyres, and ive pushed them way outside their comfort zone many times on track and they still refuse to give in.

Watch out for offsets when picking wheels. Im not saying to stay with the same offsets but once you alter it, it will change the scrub radius and you will lessen the responsive ride. 
 The OZ Ultraleggera is an ideal aftermarket wheel that is light weight that does not cost a fortune for a quality wheel. It will be less weight than the OEM.

Quote from: Gaz mr-s on May 25, 2023, 21:3116" rear will have been used by Toyota for marketing purposes, or because tyres became available in 16".

Nowadays the reverse is the problem, no new 'sporty' tyres are being made in 15", & less than 17" and above.

I think you have to go to a 195 front for Michelin PS3,  But I don't know why you'd want to anyway, the PS3 is a very old tyre.

In the last year or so they were featured in tyre tests Falken & Hankook bettered them.

You mention wheel weight..... the 16" rear is quite a bit heavier.  The 15" front is light... to get lighter probably needs forged wheels.

I'm not sure if the AD08 available in pfl front & rear, but probably your grippiest option.  The old AD08 suffered grip loss with heat cycles it's said, - don't know about the new one.  Summer use only though....semi-slick maybe?

Thanks. I wasn't aware it was for marketing only. I thought the change was done for better traction, understeer/oversteer balance etc. I do like the looks though.

As for the PS3 being old, well, the MR2 is old too right. But Michelin is a premium brand and the Pilot Sports have one of the best reputations in the business. Would they be worse than the Toyo Proxies I have now? I doubt it.

I never had Hankook but aren't they a budget brand? Falken I have had and they are good. The drift scene raves about them. So despite the PS3 being bested by them, I guess in design and performance, are they as durable and well made as Michelin? And which Falken and Hankook tyres are we talking about? I will definitely check them out.

For weight, it would be great to go lighter. But not an absolute must. I just don't want to go heavier. But I'm finding it difficult to find good looking wheels in the correct sizes. Maybe because wheel design has moved on and all that is left in the size are the older designs, since there are no new sports cars with such little wheels. I guess not much financial incentive in offering newer designs in that size.

I looked at many and the only ones I like are the S1 and K1. OZ looks alright. But honestly not better than the stock 5-spoke in my opinion. Performance comes first. So not willing to go larger than 15" front and 16" rear. But it wouldn't hurt to have something that improves the looks of the car. But it's turning out to be a tall order. Maybe because the stock 5-spoke already look so nice. An alternative is to just find some stock 16" FL wheel. But I've looked and couldn't locate any.

Quote from: Ardent on May 25, 2023, 21:53@Zens

Funnily enough I have just gone the other way. From 16 to 15 rears. I think Mr T got it right 1st time.
I don't dislike 16s far from it. But the 15s bring something extra to the party.

Is there something you don't like about the 15s that gives you concern?
What are your thoughts, that prompted the question.

To echo Gaz. One thing you don't want, is to go heavier, and to go lighter, usually requires many wine tokens.

If its tyre choice, it's a nightmare either way.
Shame you are so far away, otherwise yes you most certainly need a pair of 16's, which I just happen to have for sale. 

 Thanks. That's interesting Ardent. What is it exactly that you like about having the 15" at the rear, which is making you go back?

What prompted me to look for 16" was a combination of wanting to upgrade performance and improve the looks of my wheels with the fact Toyota changed the size to 16", which I had thought was for improvement. So I thought, if Toyota "corrected" the car, it's probably a good idea to follow suit, if I will buy new wheels anyways.

But yes, heavier is not an option. I would just keep stock then. But I thought if I could go lighter, would improve performance or at least the experience. If I can improve the looks while I'm at it, then win win.

Quote from: Iain on May 25, 2023, 21:57For me it goes on what look you prefer, no real drawbacks of either. I prefer the 15s on the rear. You'll do well to notice any weight difference going with 16s, i dont when i swap my FL to PFL wheels on track days. 

Nothing wrong with a T1R tyre, but then again tyre choice is completely dependant on what you plan to do with the car, and what budget you have.

As for the PS3, you can get them in FL rear size, i have them. Been brilliant tyres, and ive pushed them way outside their comfort zone many times on track and they still refuse to give in.

Thanks. So you use the 16" on trackdays? Just because you have the wheels, or any other particular reason?

As for what I plan to do with the car for tyre choice, this is a weekend car for me. For Sunday morning B road blasts and some trackdays here and there, most likely very seldom. Budget, I'm not too worried. I doubt I will put 2000Km on the car a year. Maybe not even 1000Km, unless I become addicted to the track, which is a hour away from me. And 15" and 16" tyres don't tend to be stupidly expensive by what I have seen.

Definitely not looking for just budget tyres though. I think the car deserves good tyres. One of the most fun cars I ever drove, let alone owned and I have owned a few nice ones. I'm in love with the little thing.

Great to know the PS3 can be had in FL rear sizes. But I guess if I keep the stock 15" set up, with the PS3 only being available in 195 for the front, it will mean I will have to move up from 205 at the rear to keep the proper stager. Will PS3 offer that? I will need to look.

Quote from: Dev on May 25, 2023, 22:28Watch out for offsets when picking wheels. Im not saying to stay with the same offsets but once you alter it, it will change the scrub radius and you will lessen the responsive ride. 
 The OZ Ultraleggera is an ideal aftermarket wheel that is light weight that does not cost a fortune for a quality wheel. It will be less weight than the OEM.

ET45 seems nearly impossible to find for the sizes. So this is indeed something which worries me. I believe the OZs are not the correct offset either? It's been a while since I looked. Main thing against the Ultraleggeras is the design. Not very fond of it. Maybe OZ make other designs in the same size? Must check.

I'm a fan of deep dish or concave wheels. I realize with narrower wheels such as 6" and 6.5" this is harder to obtain. But the S1 and K1 manage to look nicer nonetheless.

The stock wheels are very hard to beat without spending a lot of dosh.  I have 16s on the rear of my PFL, but there's nothing wrong with 15s.

I run Nankang NS20 215/45 rear and 195/50 front. Good grip in all conditions, if a bit noisy.  Don't be put off by the name, they are condsidered to be premium tyres.

The main thing is to keep the stagger.

Just a few thoughts @Zens 

If you are already using PFL wheels, why not keep them, refurbish them and have them powder-coated in an interesting non-silver colour ? Two of my cars have received this treatment, ending up with two finishes light green on one, gold on another. But black, grey etc also look good.

As for tyres:- yes a minefield and a frustrating choice. My personal favourite is Nankang NS2R which in the UK we can get sizes to suit 15'' wheels

Quote from: Zens on May 26, 2023, 08:19ET45 seems nearly impossible to find for the sizes. So this is indeed something which worries me. I believe the OZs are not the correct offset either? It's been a while since I looked. Main thing against the Ultraleggeras is the design. Not very fond of it. Maybe OZ make other designs in the same size? Must check.

I'm a fan of deep dish or concave wheels. I realize with narrower wheels such as 6" and 6.5" this is harder to obtain. But the S1 and K1 manage to look nicer nonetheless.

I run et30 16*7, wouldn't have been my first choice but there were other compromises. It definitely has a big impact on the way the car feels so tread carefully if deviating from the standard wheels, as @Dev has alluded to.

Front end feels very planted but it has lost some of the sparkle of the standard setup.

Quote from: Carolyn on May 26, 2023, 08:20The stock wheels are very hard to beat without spending a lot of dosh.  I have 16s on the rear of my PFL, but there's nothing wrong with 15s.

I run Nankang NS20 215/45 rear and 195/50 front. Good grip in all conditions, if a bit noisy.  Don't be put off by the name, they are condsidered to be premium tyres.

The main thing is to keep the stagger.

Thanks. Which 16" wheels did you go with for your PFL?

Quote from: Gibla on May 26, 2023, 08:21Just a few thoughts @Zens 

If you are already using PFL wheels, why not keep them, refurbish them and have them powder-coated in an interesting non-silver colour ? Two of my cars have received this treatment, ending up with two finishes light green on one, gold on another. But black, grey etc also look good.

As for tyres:- yes a minefield and a frustrating choice. My personal favourite is Nankang NS2R which in the UK we can get sizes to suit 15'' wheels

This is definitely an option I have considered and is what I will do if I can't find suitable wheels. Which colour was your car with the gold wheels? Photos?

Quote from: McMr2 on May 26, 2023, 08:28I run et30 16*7, wouldn't have been my first choice but there were other compromises. It definitely has a big impact on the way the car feels so tread carefully if deviating from the standard wheels, as @Dev has alluded to.

Front end feels very planted but it has lost some of the sparkle of the standard setup.

So you are running 16x7 all around? I definitely want to keep 15" at the front. Just going up to 195 from 185 worries me already.

Is there a consensus as to how much you can deviate from the stock offset and width before you see noticeable negative difference? Because as far as I could find, ET45 and 6" or even 6.5" is basically impossible.

Black car has the gold wheels (Speedline 16'' on that car, but planning to replicate the gold onto a PFL set) the gold would really suit any dark coloured car.

Piccys? later (need to take some :-) )

This car with the Speedlines is 16'' all round  195/50/16 and 215/45/16 < so a deviation from stock ,in my opinion not a massive difference , but slightly inferior

Quote from: Gibla on May 26, 2023, 08:46Black car has the gold wheels (Speedline 16'' on that car, but planning to replicate the gold onto a PFL set) the gold would really suit any dark coloured car.

Piccys? later (need to take some :-) )

This car with the Speedlines is 16'' all round  195/50/16 and 215/45/16 < so a deviation from stock ,in my opinion not a massive difference , but slightly inferior

True. Gold and black looks great. Always loved the JPS Lotus cars. Also looks great with green cars. But I also think it goes with silver or gray cars. Lotus and Porsche have silver with golden wheels and it looks great. Maybe because silver is so neutral, adds just the right amount of the spark. But it needs to be the correct "gold".

By the way, I was reading through this thread: https://www.mr2roc.org/index.php?topic=71747.0

Pity the PDF link is dead.

Could be useful. The OP seems to have put a lot of effort into the research.

Quote from: Zens on May 26, 2023, 07:47Thanks. I wasn't aware it was for marketing only. I thought the change was done for better traction, understeer/oversteer balance etc. I do like the looks though.

I never had Hankook but aren't they a budget brand? Falken I have had and they are good. The drift scene raves about them. So despite the PS3 being bested by them, I guess in design and performance, are they as durable and well made as Michelin? And which Falken and Hankook tyres are we talking about? I will definitely check them out.

For weight, it would be great to go lighter. But not an absolute must. I just don't want to go heavier. But I'm finding it difficult to find good looking wheels in the correct sizes. Maybe because wheel design has moved on and all that is left in the size are the older designs, since there are no new sports cars with such little wheels. I guess not much financial incentive in offering newer designs in that size.

Sorry, I don't know that they changed to the 16" for marketing reasons...it's just a possibility, as can be seen by the absurd sizes wheels are getting to nowadays. The difference in overall diameter pfl - FL is 14mm. And very slight track increase.

The Falken that fitted used to be the 914, now it's the ZE310. The Hankook is the Ventus prime K125. Hankook is a premium brand, some of their tyres are o/e equipment.  Both are available in stock sizes.

If you like the appearance of the stock wheels stick with them. (personally I don't)

Used FL rears are readily available in the UK...

Quote from: Gaz mr-s on May 26, 2023, 09:25Sorry, I don't know that they changed to the 16" for marketing reasons...it's just a possibility, as can be seen by the absurd sizes wheels are getting to nowadays. The difference in overall diameter pfl - FL is 14mm. And very slight track increase.

The Falken that fitted used to be the 914, now it's the ZE310. The Hankook is the Ventus prime K125. Hankook is a premium brand, some of their tyres are o/e equipment.  Both are available in stock sizes.

If you like the appearance of the stock wheels stick with them. (personally I don't)

Used FL rears are readily available in the UK...

Readily available new or used? Used I can't find them here as the MR2 is very rare and FL even more so. I haven't asked Toyota if they can still be bought new.

I will check the Falken and Hankook models, thanks.

What wheels and tyres setup do you have?

Quote from: Zens on May 26, 2023, 08:37Thanks. Which 16" wheels did you go with for your PFL?

Facelift MR2 ones.

Quote from: Zens on May 26, 2023, 09:55Readily available new or used? Used I can't find them here as the MR2 is very rare and FL even more so. I haven't asked Toyota if they can still be bought new.

I will check the Falken and Hankook models, thanks.

What wheels and tyres setup do you have?

It might be worth having some decent used ones shipped from the UK.  I'm sure J-Spec could do it for you.

Quote from: Zens on May 26, 2023, 09:55Readily available new or used? Used I can't find them here as the MR2 is very rare and FL even more so. I haven't asked Toyota if they can still be bought new.

I will check the Falken and Hankook models, thanks.

What wheels and tyres setup do you have?

Used wheels. I don't know if Toyota would still sell new ones, but I wouldn't like to know the price....

I have Rota in stock diameter, & 2 sets of JR Racing, one in stock, & one with 16" fronts, so that I could use a more modern front tyre.....no opinion on them yet.

Be aware too that if you switch to aftermarket the fronts will likely be 7" width, - & a 185 tyre doesn't look good on that width. (IMO.....)

Quote from: Zens on May 26, 2023, 08:41So you are running 16x7 all around? I definitely want to keep 15" at the front. Just going up to 195 from 185 worries me already.

Is there a consensus as to how much you can deviate from the stock offset and width before you see noticeable negative difference? Because as far as I could find, ET45 and 6" or even 6.5" is basically impossible.

Apologies I had typed a reply to this but I can't see it.

I do have 16 all round, but I stagger the tyres 195/215. There will be a hard limit of how offset/wide you can go before rubbing on the arches but I suspect it's more subjective in terms of when you'd start to feel a negative impact. Important to have the geometry adjusted accordingly too.

That factory setup is good.

I've said before that I prefer the drive on standard FL wheels but these are so light that I prefer them as the suspension is less crashy. All 4 of my OEM wheels needed a refurb too so that was a factor.

Quote from: Carolyn on May 26, 2023, 10:04It might be worth having some decent used ones shipped from the UK.  I'm sure J-Spec could do it for you.

That's an interesting idea. But I wonder how much it would end up costing, after shipping and importing taxes. I also fear damage during shipping. I wouldn't know if it was always there or not, being used. But how much good used ones usually go for the pair?