Hello everyone. It looks like the ULEZ expansion is actually going ahead in London. Unfortunately, I own a 2000 pre-facelift model that isn't compliant. However, the exact same car (same engine, same catalytic converter, so same emissions) that is 2001, 2002 or 2003 reg is ULEZ charge exempt. It is in my understanding that these cars were designed to pass strict emission standards, due to using a pre-cat and a main cat.
Does anyone know if it is possible to make my car ULEZ charge exempt? And what I will need to do?
It's rather difficult finding any information or pointers on this issue so any input will help.
Dag
I have no experience of ulez myself but cant imagine that there is anything you can do to change an individual car, it is going to be based on the reg. no and what the database they use says about it.
You could check the database for other pre facelift reg nos (look on autotrader etc for some examples) to see if they are the same as your car. If they are not, perhaps you could challenge the actual database?
If they are the same, I assume you would need to change to a facelift car that is ok.
You can make it technically ULEZ compliant by adding a post-cat O2 sensor and changing the ECU to a facelift.
But the car won't be registered as such and you know the gov't; if computer says no...
I would challenge it.
My 2014 Euro 6 Audi A3 was showing as not being eligible for the Bristol clean air zone.
Given it's Euro status of 6, I challenged this and they changed it in a few days.
Thanks for the pointers. Looks like it should be possible without any mods, as I've searched several no. plates from pre-facelift cars from 2001 to 2003 that don't have to pay ULEZ tax
All you have to prove is that your car, as designed, emits less than 0.08g/km of NOx
There is a form to fill in here:
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/compliance-registration/before-you-start
The 'usual' way of proving this seems to be to send in a 'certificate of conformity' from the manufacturer, many will send you one for your car for a fee. Toyota however don't want to do this for cars over 20 years old.
Does it state the NOx level on your v5?
Although mine's a facelift, it was showing as non compliant.
I wrote to TFL via the website explaining that it was the same engine as my previous car which was showing as compliant.
I also quoted a number of other registrations which showed as compliant.
They wrote back and confirmed that they had changed it. It now shows up being fine.
Maybe try that with some similar or older cars that you know go through.
I have a 52 plate PFL.
QuoteYou don't have to pay the ULEZ or LEZ charge for this vehicle.
There is no need to register it - we know it already meets the emissions standards for ULEZ and LEZ, has no charge due or is exempt from the schemes.
You will need to pay the Congestion Charge as normal.
Quote from: The Other Stu on July 29, 2023, 09:02Although mine's a facelift, it was showing as non compliant.
I wrote to TFL via the website explaining that it was the same engine as my previous car which was showing as compliant.
I also quoted a number of other registrations which showed as compliant.
They wrote back and confirmed that they had changed it. It now shows up being fine.
Maybe try that with some similar or older cars that you know go through.
This sounds very promising! I'll give this a go before forking out £75 for a CoC
This is great information, thanks. And helps widen my search for an MR2, as I live inside the new ULEZ. :)
A little off topic - I own 4 vehicles. I find it somewhat ironic that the most polluting - 2019 Peugeot Boxer camper - is the only one that is compliant with Glasgow's LEZ.
London's ULEZ seems deeply unpopular. My company has an office in west London and I know it's hated by the staff there.
Quote from: The Other Stu on July 29, 2023, 09:02Although mine's a facelift, it was showing as non compliant.
I wrote to TFL via the website explaining that it was the same engine as my previous car which was showing as compliant.
I also quoted a number of other registrations which showed as compliant.
They wrote back and confirmed that they had changed it. It now shows up being fine.
Maybe try that with some similar or older cars that you know go through.
Possibly a newbie question - there'll be quite a lot from me, sorry - but will this work for _all_ PFL cars? There's a rather nice-looking 2000 early model I've got my eye on, but because I'll want to use it as a regular driver the ULEZ thing is a bit of a deal-breaker.
Quote from: inigopete on August 10, 2023, 08:56Possibly a newbie question - there'll be quite a lot from me, sorry - but will this work for _all_ PFL cars? There's a rather nice-looking 2000 early model I've got my eye on, but because I'll want to use it as a regular driver the ULEZ thing is a bit of a deal-breaker.
i'm not sure anyone could guarantee.
If ULEZ is a dealbreaker, I'd be looking at a 52 plate onwards as most of those show as compliant.
Check the VRM on DVLA website and it should tell you.
Quote from: J88TEO on August 10, 2023, 10:07Check the VRM on DVLA website and it should tell you.
Yes, that was my first call - the DVLA website says the car is _not_ ULEZ-compliant, but
@The Other Stu 's post above suggests I may be able to convince the DVLA that it should be. I just wondered if there was any reason an early model wouldn't have the same emissions as later ones.
Looks like my X reg 2 is not ULEZ compliant too!
Will have to scrap her.... :( :( :(
Oh no .... :o
Since the ulez requires a certain nox emmissions level rather than a date of manufacture and all MR2 roadsters have the same engine which is much better than the required standard there doesn't seem any reason why it shouldn't be possible to have any roadster which currently shows as non-compliant on the website corrected. Don't scrap or sell yet!
A bit confusing - I looked up a few PFL cars on Autotrader and then put their reg numbers through the TFL site (https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/check-your-vehicle/).
2000 : non compliant
2001 : compliant
2002 : compliant
Are they basing this purely on the year? Did anything change from 2000->2001 with the engine?
Quote from: barchetta_ms on August 11, 2023, 14:41A bit confusing - I looked up a few PFL cars on Autotrader and then put their reg numbers through the TFL site (https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/check-your-vehicle/).
2000 : non compliant
2001 : compliant
2002 : compliant
Are they basing this purely on the year? Did anything change from 2000->2001 with the engine?
Nothing changed with the engine- but it's possible there's a difference in the ECU mapping. I highly doubt this though and it's a matter of Government ineptitude.
I think it was from 2001 that DVLA started recording the emmision levels on the V5.
Quote from: barchetta_ms on August 11, 2023, 14:41A bit confusing - I looked up a few PFL cars on Autotrader and then put their reg numbers through the TFL site (https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/check-your-vehicle/).
2000 : non compliant
2001 : compliant
2002 : compliant
Are they basing this purely on the year? Did anything change from 2000->2001 with the engine?
As I said near the top of the page, my current one (2004) wasn't showing as compliant.
I think they make these things up.
But yes, as previously mentioned, post 2001
should be OK
Quote from: J88TEO on August 11, 2023, 15:00I think it was from 2001 that DVLA started recording the emmision levels on the V5.
Seems like taxation started to use nox from 1st Jan 2000 and I thought I read it was included from Apr 1999, but I don't have cars of the right years to check that back. Only data I have is that nox value is on the v5c for my 2001 MR2 which TFL say is ulez approved but my 1984 merc has that section blank and that has to pay ULEZ (until next year when it becomes 'historic').
Quote from: J88TEO on August 11, 2023, 15:00I think it was from 2001 that DVLA started recording the emmision levels on the V5.
Just checked my V5 for a 2000 pfl - no g/km listed
Quote from: paulj on September 4, 2023, 17:18Just checked my V5 for a 2000 pfl - no g/km listed
...ditto...here. My X reg has no g/km listed too.
I tried to get mine updated via the Clean Air Zone support system (works for everywhere except London) and got a quick reply from them. They are happy to update details and issue a new V5 upon production of a Certificate of Conformity from Toyota. A quick email to David Crouch at Toyota GB, a big MR2DC figure, led me to a page on their website. https://www.toyota.co.uk/owners/vehicle-information/certificates-of-conformity (https://www.toyota.co.uk/owners/vehicle-information/certificates-of-conformity) Essentially one is yours for £75 plus proof of ownership. I would probably only be an infrequent visitor to a zone so am going to keep my money for the moment but hopefully this will help others
That is a great result!
UPDATE!! SUCCESS!!
My MR2 has been approved as ULEZ compliant by TFL, so now I don't have to pay the charge. First I emailed TFL, showing them example number plates of other compliant MR2s, but they didn't buy it (took them over a month to reply, which was very annoying). So I ordered a Certificate of Conformity from Toyota for £75 - the whole process of approving the application and receiving the certificate in the post took around 10 days. Then I sent photos of the CoC as well as the V5C and the car was approved as ULEZ compliant in just under a week.
It looks like cars made before 2001 didn't have to specifiy their emissions (e.g. NOx, CO, CO2) in their logbook, so TFL doesn't have any emissions data on these vehicles. The pre-facelift MR2 has 0.01 g NOx/km which is well bellow the 0.08 g NOx/km that is required for ULEZ. The CoC provides the necessary proof of compliant emissions.
Very happy!!
Great result, well done!
I'm minded to ask TFL for the £75.00 CoC fee.
You shouldn't be out of pocket because of their administrative error.
:) your back ground work payed off in the end 8)
keep all the paper work handy as it sounds like you may need to prove this at a later date
Quote from: Alex Knight on September 23, 2023, 19:14You shouldn't be out of pocket because of their administrative error.
What it the error by TFL?
QuoteIt looks like cars made before 2001 didn't have to specifiy their emissions (e.g. NOx, CO, CO2) in their logbook, so TFL doesn't have any emissions data on these vehicles.
If anything it is Toyota´s ´negligence´ no?
In any case congrats and chapeau to
@Dagnet !
Quote from: Petrus on September 24, 2023, 10:21What it the error by TFL?
Listing a compliant car as not compliant.
Quote from: Alex Knight on September 24, 2023, 13:18Listing a compliant car as not compliant.
According to the data they had, probably from the MoT, it was not listed as compliant.
As I wrote, in mý opinion that was/is the task of the manufacturar who after all doés have the data.
Different pov. Thanks for highlighting yours.
The TFL has the interest in nót chasing that info. They want less cars in.
If one is cynical, apparently the manufacturars too. They want to sell néw cars.
Quote from: Petrus on September 24, 2023, 15:19The TFL has the interest in nót chasing that info. They want less cars in.
If one is cynical, apparently the manufacturars too. They want to sell néw cars.
This is conjecture.
The facts remain; the vehicle was incorrectly listed as not compliant.
You should not have to pay to correct the error of a government body.
Quote from: Alex Knight on September 25, 2023, 12:33This is conjecture.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
The fact remains; the vehicle was incorrectly listed as not compliant.
You should not have to pay to correct the error of a government body.
Quote from: Alex Knight on September 25, 2023, 12:33You should not have to pay to correct the error of a government body.
Ah well, unfortunately shit happens and more so with gvt.
Quote from: Dagnet on September 23, 2023, 18:59Then I sent photos of the CoC as well as the V5C and the car was approved as ULEZ compliant in just under a week.
From what i read you should also get a new V5 with the emissions listed on it. Useful as it will be the base data used for all other clean air zones. I think TFL work differently so it may be worth choosing another zone and forwarding the documents to them as well.