Surely this is missing a good chunk of its cat ???
(http://www.btinternet.com/~k.s.brooks/missing.JPG)
Off to check the main cat now s:( :( s:(
Oh dear looks like half of it is missing! s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
Blimey s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Looks like your rough engine diagnosis was spot on matey. Glad you seem to have caught this before bits got sucked north.
Are the upper surfaces intact? (I'm guessing they won't be for long s:lol: :lol: s:lol: )
Happy bashing!
Ste
They are nice and pre cat free at the moment s:) :) s:)
The only trouble I have now is getting the main cat off and drilling out the two bolts that sheared. One on the head and one one the main cat. Main cat is not a prob but I'm not to keen on the head one.
Any way need to get main cat off as that debris must have gone some where and at the mo I'm having a wrestle with the rubber hangers.
Some one send me some new arms s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Concerned that the main cat is now a pile of rubbish as I cannot locate any rubble.
How much is a main cat ? And does anyone out there have one if needed ??
There goes this years bonus s:( :( s:(
It would be a LOT easier to follow this, if you didn't start a new thread all the time. s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "Beastie"Concerned that the main cat is now a pile of rubbish as I cannot locate any rubble.
How much is a main cat ? And does anyone out there have one if needed ??
There goes this years bonus s:( :( s:(
Looks like I have the same problem. I removed the manifold to find only one precat brick left.... I removed the main cat only to find a small anount of brick left.
I have a feeling someone has been here before and the (single) precat brick has already been removed. I think the debris may be from the main cat.
Just to top things off, MrT parts shut at 1pm.
Quote from: "jamesgod"I removed the manifold to find only one precat brick left.... I removed the main cat only to find a small anount of brick left.
I have a feeling someone has been here before and the (single) precat brick has already been removed. I think the debris may be from the main cat.
The precat probably doesn't break off as one big piece. If it did, it wouldn't even have the space to go anywhere, not to block the main cat, nor into the cylinders. I think it breaks off in little pieces, which block the main cat by going in the cells. s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "jamesgod"I removed the manifold to find only one precat brick left.... I removed the main cat only to find a small anount of brick left.
I have a feeling someone has been here before and the (single) precat brick has already been removed. I think the debris may be from the main cat.
The precat probably doesn't break off as one big piece. If it did, it wouldn't even have the space to go anywhere, not to block the main cat, nor into the cylinders. I think it breaks off in little pieces, which block the main cat by going in the cells. s:? :? s:?
I think this may be the case. Just to test it out I tried filling the main cat with water (I did remove it first!). I would have expected the water to flow freely through the brick, but it trickled out.
I think this is described in the trade as "Possibly Has Unknown Component Defects" PHUCD!
I will post the costs for main cat when I speak to main dealer on Monday.
My car is 5 years old has done 53K. In theory MrT should still cover part as 'Good will', but seeing as I repaired it myself they would just say that I broke it.
If anyone knows where I can get a main cat cheaper than main dealer I would appreciate the info.
Fingers crossed that I haven't done any cylinder damage!
You only need the Cat for the MOT, make a down pipe up for the moment and keep an eye out on eBay or scrap yards for a Cat ready for your next MOT (it will be slightly noisier but keep your foot off the throttle and you will notice no difference)
Pete
Adam (Jap GT300) might have used cats for a good price, PM him.
Quote from: "Peter Wright"You only need the Cat for the MOT, make a down pipe up for the moment and keep an eye out on eBay or scrap yards for a Cat ready for your next MOT (it will be slightly noisier but keep your foot off the throttle and you will notice no difference)
Pete
Will this not cause Cel ?
(off topic) where in Romford are you James ?
on no J-spec cars yes it will cause a cel
There is a Cat on eBay
m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-MR2-S-ROAD ... dZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-MR2-S-ROADSTER-2002-PARTS_W0QQitemZ8039420916QQcategoryZ9895QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) m
Or you can borrow mine untill my next MOT or untill you find one at a reasonable price
I think from Toyota they are over £600
Yes it will cause a cel on uk models but will not affect the performance
Quote from: "Peter Wright"There is a Cat on eBay .....
Ah, the infamous Caroline s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I've got a Cat sitting in the garage. It won't win any concourse prizes but it does work. J-spec though....
Quote from: "Peter Wright"I think from Toyota they are over £600
Sounds about right, they are $1036 in US.
Just been having a look around for average prices and fell upon MRS Passions PPE Header + Hi Flo cat which although approx £575 + shipping etc might make some good from the situation.
Looks like the cat has a sensor socket on the ppe site but the question I would ask is will it pass an MOT
and i'll have one available from 7th April, bit of a way off i know s:? :? s:?
If only it was a little sooner you could have had a sale s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I take it did pass the MOT then
Quote from: "Beastie"If only it was a little sooner you could have had a sale s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I take it did pass the MOT then
dont know, never had one, it was changed because of corrosion on the heatshields, i was planning on making a de-cat pipe with it
Quote from: "spit"Quote from: "Peter Wright"There is a Cat on eBay .....
Ah, the infamous Caroline s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I've got a Cat sitting in the garage. It won't win any concourse prizes but it does work. J-spec though....
Is there some history there as I am probably about to take her/him or it up on the parts.
It has come from a four year old car so it can't be any worse than mine. Famous last words s:D :D s:D
Why don't you guys write a letter to Toyota demanding new cats? I did that in Portugal with success. After me, a couple other MR2 owners have done it as well. We have had our pre-cats gutted and main cats swapped at no cost.
I have just had a quote from local Toyota parts and the cost of the main cat is £694 + VAT (£814). Plus all the gaskets and studs that snaped off.
I feel a letter coming on.
Quote from: "jamesgod"I have just had a quote from local Toyota parts and the cost of the main cat is £694 + VAT (£814). Plus all the gaskets and studs that snaped off.
I feel a letter coming on.
EEK s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
I only managed to snap one stud. One on each manifold that is s:cry: :cry: s:cry: . Spent more time dremelling and drilling than spannering.
The letter may be an option but do we have to go through an official dealer so that it is recorded in some way or just fire one off to Toyota GB ?
Quote from: "Beastie"Quote from: "jamesgod"I have just had a quote from local Toyota parts and the cost of the main cat is £694 + VAT (£814). Plus all the gaskets and studs that snaped off.
I feel a letter coming on.
EEK s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
I only managed to snap one stud. One on each manifold that is s:cry: :cry: s:cry: . Spent more time dremelling and drilling than spannering.
The letter may be an option but do we have to go through an official dealer so that it is recorded in some way or just fire one off to Toyota GB ?
Bit of an update. A bit of haggling later and MrT decided that with a discount he can supply the Main Cat for £552.21.
However, i'm investigating another route. It appears that Timax (ArvinMeritor) make a direct replacement with either a ceramic or steel monolith. The latter being a bit more expensive but has a 4 year warranty. I will update when I get a quote.
Good bit of haggling and scouting James. Hope you get sorted.
Quote from: "Beastie"Quote from: "spit"Quote from: "Peter Wright"There is a Cat on eBay .....
Ah, the infamous Caroline s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I've got a Cat sitting in the garage. It won't win any concourse prizes but it does work. J-spec though....
Is there some history there as I am probably about to take her/him or it up on the parts.
It has come from a four year old car so it can't be any worse than mine. Famous last words s:D :D s:D
Soz Beastie - only just seen your question (Doh! s:oops: :oops: s:oops: )
This EBayer started breaking a '2 for parts a few months ago and was not an easy person to deal with - no descriptions, no facts and a slightly confrontational attitude when it came to answering questions. The consensus at the time was that it was a wind-up.
Have to say though, that her ad carries some more detail now and the feedback suggests she is finally selling bits successfully.
Ste
I'm hoping your right Spit as this should be on its way to me soon
(http://i6.ebayimg.com/04/i/06/5e/a3/cc_1_b.JPG)
Looks a damn site cleaner than mine as well
Quote from: "Beastie"I'm hoping your right Spit as this should be on its way to me soon
(http://i6.ebayimg.com/04/i/06/5e/a3/cc_1_b.JPG)
Looks a damn site cleaner than mine as well
Is it just me, or has that been painted? s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
it has, which begs teh question why?
Well at least you have a picture so you know it exists s:wink: :wink: s:wink: I'm guessing she has painted all the rusty-looking stuff to enhance the value, nothing more.
Beastie: Worth a trip to MrT to get the 2x manifold-cat gaskets and the cat-silencer crush gasket. Details in this thread Clicky (http://mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3373)
Don't dwell on the prices in the pic - I think they're in dollars s:lol: :lol: s:lol: But do take your wallet, a stiff drink and someone to catch you when you faint s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Ste
I just bought an electric aerial from "Caroline" also which was delivered in a few days, got it on Saturday and I'm still building up the courage to try and fit this myself.
Quote from: "spit"Well at least you have a picture so you know it exists s:wink: :wink: s:wink: I'm guessing she has painted all the rusty-looking stuff to enhance the value, nothing more.
Beastie: Worth a trip to MrT to get the 2x manifold-cat gaskets and the cat-silencer crush gasket. Details in this thread Clicky (http://mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3373)
Don't dwell on the prices in the pic - I think they're in dollars s:lol: :lol: s:lol: But do take your wallet, a stiff drink and someone to catch you when you faint s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Ste
I think two stiff drinks are a requirement as I have already bought the manifold gaskets and for what is basically a copper crush gasket they are not cheap. Now I have one for a size reference I shall visit the local car parts shop and have a look through there gaskets.
I'd write directly to toyota GB. I'd attach a few photos of the pre-cats and a link to a page from spyderchat (just not to involve MR2ROC) where they list some of the pre-cat failures they've had. A main cat is supposed to last at least 10 years. They are not getting knackered because you use them incorrectly. They get knackered because the pre-cats break up. I'd complain. s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Just out of interest I saw an H&S advert yesterday (think it was J-Tuner, but not sure) where they were advertising a down-pipe with a 100 cell cat in it sufficient to cope with MOT demands and a loss of only 2BHP.
Definitely not for an MR2, but since they do the MR2 exhaust, they might be able to help. No pricing though.
OK. Got a reply about a direct replacement part. You can find the company on (Note: the MR2 Roadster option is not priced on site):
w www.autospares-group.co.uk (http://www.autospares-group.co.uk) w
They have a local supplier and can deliver them in a couple of days for £266.95 + VAT (£313.68). I think delivery is £5.50.
Thants £240 cheaper than MrT and it comes with a '2 year warranty'.
Hats off to you James you are the web search guru by the looks of it s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Well the cat has turned up and serves me right for not asking its not a uk version as theres no O2 sensor hole.
Question is will I be ok to run without the sensor whilst I remedy the situation or is it going to cause an engine management issue ?
I suppose I could weld a suitable large nut on there instead.
lathe nut is teh way to go, yes you can run fine without it for a while but you will have a CEL
Quote from: "Beastie"Well the cat has turned up and serves me right for not asking its not a uk version as theres no O2 sensor hole.
Question is will I be ok to run without the sensor whilst I remedy the situation or is it going to cause an engine management issue ?
I suppose I could weld a suitable large nut on there instead.
you'll need to trick the ECU into thinking theres an O2 sensor there, instructions for doing that are on here somewhere s:? :? s:?
trust me teh nut is easier by far
Cannot locate an 18mm 1.25 pitch nut anywhere !!!
A m8 is going off to check a Jap bike breakers for me but is the removing the O2 sensor from the system that much of a chore as Markiii seems to imply
Speak to H&S or any good exhaust oulet, I an sorted me out with a bolt in that size so should be able to find you a not
your so close he'll probably weld it on for you as well.
Cheers for that Mark its about time I got down there.
Cat is now on and missing the O2 sensor how long before I should see a Cel. I have read a couple of posts that seem to imply that after the 3rd or 4th power cycle and I'm on about my 7th now.
Engine still a little slow picking up revs but no where near as bad as before apart from the MAF which I have cleaned (slightly dirty) and a ecu reset what else can I look for. Already swapped plugs, air filter, oil & checked for general loose pipes etc. I realise the MAF could be faulty are these expensive to change ?
£100 from toyota
Ok I would like to recind my previous statement as it is running just as bad as it was before, didn't really notice until the long run to work this morning. Looks like it wasn't the cat after all - just as well it made me clean out the precats though.
James if you have not sorted your cat out yet theres one here.
I still need to locate the issue as I am loathe to give in now and pass it to mr T to sort out.
Everything about it makes me lean towards fueling or rather the lack of delivery as the car starts first time an idles v smoothly. Going to check over everything again including all vacuum pipes, fuel pipes and maybe even clean out the injectors if it comes to it.
Can someone tell me where the fuel filter is on these as I have not located it yet ?
Quote from: "Beastie"Can someone tell me where the fuel filter is on these as I have not located it yet ?
We don't have one.
(there's one inside the tank though, but you shouldn't need to change that)
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "Beastie"Can someone tell me where the fuel filter is on these as I have not located it yet ?
We don't have one.
(there's one inside the tank though, but you shouldn't need to change that)
Thanks Tem - thats probably why I havn't found it yet s:) :) s:)
OK. I took the plunge and bought the 'direct replacement cat' for £320 including VAT and delivery. It arrived on my doorstep 2 days later.
I took some photos straight away in case anyone else is contemplating taking the plunge.
As far as I can tell the tubing (including bendy bits) are all stainless steel and the fit is perfect. The MrT 'crush' gasket slipped straight on and the whole thing slotted straight in.
I didn't weigh it but without the excesive heat shielding it also seemed lighter than the original.
Camparison of original cat to pattern one (Click to enlarge):
(http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/9187/catcompare3sw.th.jpg) (http://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=catcompare3sw.jpg)
Comparison of the 'Cat to Backbox' bracket (Click to enlarge):
(http://img319.imageshack.us/img319/3322/catclamp6no.th.jpg) (http://img319.imageshack.us/my.php?image=catclamp6no.jpg)
Comparison of the 'Cat to Manifold' bracket (Click to enlarge):
(http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/1789/catmanifold4yg.th.jpg) (http://img371.imageshack.us/my.php?image=catmanifold4yg.jpg)
Rather subtle 'disclaimer'... (Click to enlarge):
(http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/9126/catinstructions2bx.th.jpg) (http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=catinstructions2bx.jpg)
I followed the 'subtle' instructions, started the engine and watched my vehicle go up in a ball of smoke. Luckily it was just the WD40 burning off.
I took the car for a 'leisurely' drive and hey presto to CEL (MIL) popped on. "GREAT!" (Spelt with an "F")
I traced the fault to the downstream Lambda Sensor (HEGO) and found that the Heater in the sensor was broken. I don't know whether this was the root cause of this whole mess or I broke it removing/refitting it.
Anyhow. I have a new Lambda sensor on it's way (For £14.99 from ebay it's worth a try) and I will report back once it's done.
If every thing is ok, then I will get the car gas tested at my local MOT station. Firstly, for piece of mind and secondly, so I can compare the results from the last test and let people know whether it's any good.
Fingers crossed.
James by the looks of it you could had a new Lambda sensor from the same place you got the cat from for £25 but hopefully your ebay one see's your car fixed and sorted.
I think I have whittled my problem down to the injectors but won't be able to check until friday. Any one have a spare set of injectors I can buy, borrow or lease for a day s:) :) s:)
Looks like MR T is going to win this one as I just cannot locate the issue
I have checked, cleaned or replaced the following
Air filter (Replaced)
Maf(cleaned) With a good few squirts of MAF freindly cleaner up the intake
Plugs (replaced)
Coils (replaced)
Injectors (replaced) one seal found to be squashed but still sealing - new one tomorrow
Checked for intake leaks before and after MAF
Checked and swapped O2 sensors
Symptoms are : Feels flat and harsh upto 4000 revs and not to willing to go further although it will (don't want to push it). Eninge idles fine and starts 1st time. Other than replacing the MAF which I believe are about £100 (can anyone confirm this) I cannot think of anything else except for fuel pressure and VVT being knackered and as I have no means of testing this I'm scuppered.
Any ideas anyone
Does the engine rev freely in neutral? or is this lack of power only while driving?
Does your CEL (MIL) illuminate? You will need to run the engine two times once warm to set most of the codes.
To test the Lambda Sensors, Catalyst and Fuel Purge system you will need to drive the vehicle twice covering high speeds and low speeds for 10 miles each (None of which will affect power).
A few items to look at:
Fuel system - Engine is running so the pump is working however low fuel rail pressure could affect the amount of fuel at high load. You will need a fuel pressure tester to check this.
Intake system - You have checked the air filter but what about the rest of the system? Also check the Throttle. Does the butterfly valve open fully when the accelerator is pressed?
Exhaust system - Broken pre-catalysts get stuck in downstream cat or back box. This can have a dramatic effect on the power output.
Ignition System – Only really causes problems at idle.
All of the engine sensors should be covered by diagnostics and illuminate the CEL (MIL) however the 'Throttle Position Sensor' can sometimes be faulty but still in range. Try measuring the voltage from this sensor. There is normally a 5v supply on these sensors so you can measure the output something like 0.2v – 4.8v from Closed to WOT (wide open throttle). This sensor can affect fuelling on acceleration but the engine 'should' still run without it.
The odd thing about this is that although I have swapped my Main Cat for a JDM after the pre cats fell apart I have had only one CEL which went away on the next engine start. I would have thought that I would have a constant CEL as the aft Cat O2 sensor is missing and I have covered more than 10 miles as suggested.
I will swap the rubber injector seal and check the intake over again tomorrow and if that isn't it MR T can fix it - I have had enough of laying on cold driveways s:( :( s:(
Thanks for the hints though James