Hi we made it to Hungary.
We got to france at 5pm and budapest about 5:30 am (found Gaspars about 8am s:oops: :oops: s:oops: that extra 3 hours driving around the city nearly killed me after almost 20 hours driving) thanks lee by the way. so we made good time. From france to wein alone, i knocked 2 hours off tomtom (my record so far s:D :D s:D )
Car is in bits, and getting its clutch today, tomorow the turbo s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
gas is great, realy nice and very welcoming and helpful. And his heavilly modded 2 is so beautiful, <3
this pc keeps crashing so ill keep it short and then edit (5th or 6th attemp to post now s:) :) s:) )
Philster
good to hear you arrived safley Phil, hope the install goes well
Good Luck and no knocking time off TT on the way home or you'll end up killing yourself s:? :? s:?
If its done in time im going to go relax s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: in Hamster Dam. Boat leaves sunday for england.
/P>.
Glad you made it safe and sound matey. Hope there's room for that grin in the car on the way back s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
My best to Gas
Ste
(ps thanks for picking up my sandwich s8) 8) s8) )
no problem Oi'l "feed" it to you on my return. hehe
Enjoy the whole experience Phil, you probably need a chill out after the marathon drive.
Quote from: "loadswine"you probably need a chill out after the marathon drive.
thats one word for it, i'm guessing he's going to fly home
loooooooool
s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:
Say hello to Cheech and Chong if you bump into them :-) :-) :-) I havent seen them for a while !!!
I saw cheech the other day, i think he may have dropped chong s:) :) s:)
PMSL !!!!!!! s8) 8) s8)
guess i'm getting old s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
i dont understand s:? :? s:?
Don't forget to get some pics of Gas's car. Have a nice time mate!
Quote from: "kanujunkie"guess i'm getting old s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
i dont understand s:? :? s:?
I'm older and totally clueless, thought it was a snotty sneeze!
And yes Phil, pics!! s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "kanujunkie"guess i'm getting old s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
i dont understand s:? :? s:?
You mean the Cheech & Chong references? The films are right out of your era I reckon s:P :P s:P
Quote from: "imdb"1. Up in Smoke (1978)
aka "Cheech and Chong's Up in Smoke"
aka "Cheech and Chong: Up in Smoke"
2. Still Smokin (1983)
aka "Cheech and Chong: Still Smokin'"
3. Get Out of My Room (1985)
aka "Cheech and Chong: Get Out of My Room"
Stoner movies...
Too much clean living Stu - you may have missed these completely when you were growing up......you have grown up, haven't you? s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "spit"you have grown up, haven't you? s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Ah.. that'll be the problem s:D :D s:D s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s;) ;) s;) s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Quote from: "spit"Too much clean living Stu - you may have missed these completely when you were growing up......you have grown up, haven't you? s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
not yet if i can help it s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
clutch replaced, oilpan and line connected, manifold in place. Tomorrow to be finished.
(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/philster/cop0000.jpg)
(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/philster/cop0001.jpg)
(http://www.c2design.hu/celica/Mr2Spyder/philster/cop0002.jpg)
That turbo has bolt on fittings on the compressor side, nice touch.
Gas could you give Phil and extra exhaust clamp as I was missing one in my box.
Thanks s:D :D s:D
That manifold looks awesome. Good work guys. s:) :) s:)
The C2 kit looks really nice. Do they do a 2ZZ version that fits inside an MR-S? The car with the wide body and A048s needs more torque s:x :x s:x
I am undecided if I should put on a custom kit or a readly available one or just build the engine a bit and leave it N/A. N/A feels better but the engine is small at 1.8ltr and you can get only so much out of it leaving it N/A s:? :? s:?
I'm 90% certain that a new manifold flange and a remaped emanage and it would just bolt onto a 2zz swap easily
Woot!!!
Weve just been out mapping, all ready to go.
It sounds beatiful.
Thank you Gas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
/Philster
Safely arrived in Dam
we left about midnight and got here about half 12 midday.
Suitably chilled s8) 8) s8)
s8) 8) s8) s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Home at last and no problems to report.
Already put 1300 miles on the kit.
Feels like my new car,
Philster.
Excellent, glad to hear it Phil. s8) 8) s8)
s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce: s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
That was a heck of a drive mate, glad you're enjoying the boosted life.
Welcome home Phil s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Get some pics up matey!
We want pics !
We want pics !
We want pics !
:-) :-) :-)
s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
I am happy that the road test did well, now you need to set up for perfomance. Get a boost and EGT gauge man and tune for performance!!!
the poor boys unwell so i guess he's gonna have to wait a bit longer
Get well soon Phil s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Didnt stay too long with Cheech and Chong I hope ???
(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1294/hungary013yx.jpg)
(http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/2820/hungary022el.jpg)
(http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6773/hungary045vq.jpg)
A happy looking person
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/820/hungary050ob.jpg)
an interesting sign
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4292/hungary060yp.jpg)
and now the car
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3327/hungary072vt.jpg)
(http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3688/hungary080lt.jpg)
(http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/8286/hungary093iu.jpg)
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8858/hungary108ej.jpg)
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5139/hungary112tz.jpg)
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9409/hungary123zt.jpg)
And heres on of Gas'
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6400/hungarygas4le.jpg)
Hmmmmmm Turbo :-) :-) :-) !
/Homer Mode
interesting position on that exhaust outlet, i like it s:D :D s:D
Gemma really looks like she hated that trip s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "kanujunkie"interesting position on that exhaust outlet, i like it s:D :D s:D
Gemma really looks like she hated that trip s:? :? s:?
i like it too, is there another one the other side of the number plate, carrera GT styley s:D :D s:D
doesn't look like there would be on this version, theres not enough room looking at the picture
that would be nice!
it spits fire
Quote from: "philster_d"it spits fire
Wiiiickeeeedddd s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
im such a child
Bring home any souvenirs from the 'Dam? How much was the VAT? s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "kanujunkie"interesting position on that exhaust outlet, i like it s:D :D s:D
I like that too.
Gas has fair cannibalised the rear cross member to get that installed though - doubt that'd go down well on UK streets in the event of a rear shunt.
Nice pics of yours too Phil. Look forward to your driving impressions.
good point Spit, that'll never pass an MOT over here plus i wouldn't want to be in a crash with no rear crash protection either s:? :? s:?
Is there any more pics of Gas' car? Looks pretty cool! The turbo looks wicked fitted.... s:roll: :roll: s:roll: .... Gemma looks rather miffed, hope you bought her some flowers of something.
Quote from: "kanujunkie"good point Spit, that'll never pass an MOT over here plus i wouldn't want to be in a crash with no rear crash protection either s:? :? s:?
That's what the engine's there for.. isn't it? s;) ;) s;)
Not alot to see on Gas' its mostly internals stuff and bore etc
Im sure if he wants more pics out there he will post them, these are my, paperatzi style, through the fence shots s:) :) s:)
I have a race at the weekend I will post pics that are made there. The car is getting completed by then.
Gl Gas, did you get the suspension on yet ?
Philster.
yeah I just got them yesterday, also got my tires 235/60-15 drag radials, the turbo is removed reviewed, all looks clean and ready to raise the boost.
Arrrrggg
my car is hesitant and bogging today at all kind of revs.
Especialy when trying to drive at a steady speed. (Didnt try flat out felt too risky)
Any ideas ?
fs I am having the worst week after the best week. s:( :( s:( i prefer the other order.
Everything has been imaculate to now. Did something pop off ? Its been sat for a day and thats the only thing different. It had a good run every other day.
Phil
I think a hose or something poped off, check all connections!
Check all clamps and hoses. The hose connectors have a tendency to work themselves off. Check e-manage connections - might need a ecu reset. Clean the MAF, or possibly it's a dirty injector - flush through with a can of injector cleaner. All these have been causes of problems for me.
lol thanks Tommy,
i checked all hoses I could see/reach but the ones that go to the side of the engine are harder to see.
Check around the Throttle body, look for smaller hoses too. If want make digi pics to be able to share.
Ill get to the bottom of things s:) :) s:) Im going out after dinner for another look.
Philster.
after further investigation.
Its the pipe from the tsv that goes to behind the engine. (straight down)
Too dark now but ill be out in the morning to try to replug it.
Thx for your advice guys, can I say exaclty correct s8) 8) s8)
gj
Philster.
I just cant find where this stupid little pipe goes to s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
Behind the oil cap was Marks guidance I felt all over there but I cant seem to find it, I did find a similar diameter Blue silicone one still connected around there tho ?
(http://194.24.233.106/pipe.jpg)
[edited cos it was the rantings of a loon - picture retained to show the hose and where it goes s:oops: :oops: s:oops: ]
Normally lives behind the throttle plate Phil. Sod to get to but have a finger around and you'll find it.
(http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/5295/car362ed.jpg)
fs messenger broke now, bear with me
Nothing anywhere along the blue hose
I cant see the one marked PCV in your diagram, but there is a slightly wider pipe from around there to the top left of the engine...
oops Mea Culpa Phil. The hose does have its own connection further round into the inlet manifold (and even harder to get to!) Give me a few mins and I'll photgraph it for you and show you exactly where it is......
You are the man!
thank god cos Im depressed
here y'go (and MSN'd too).
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3151/philspcvhosesmall9yx.jpg)
Your hose should pass between the two take offs (marked "PCV" and "Breather" in the previous pic) and down onto the TB/intake. I've marked it with an arrow.
In fact, you can see it in its entirety in the previous picture. Doh - blonde moment alert s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
OK Update after having a chat with Phil. It seems we all have slightly different setups across the FI community, so maybe some of you others can help:
- Phil's Crankcase breather hose is on an air filter to atmosphere and the breather attachment point in front of the throttle plate is capped off - easy enough.
- His PCV hose from the crankcase is stock, attached behind the throttle plate.
- His Sard BOV is tapped in where the pipe-to-electric gizmo-to-charcoal canister used to be (arrowed in the photo above - sorry dunno what its called)
- so, his disconnected gizmo pipe now has nowhere to attach. I was expecting it to be tee'd with the BOV hose. Maybe it didn't pop off - maybe it was always left dangling after install?
Can it be left dangling? I suspect it can but I'm afraid I don't know enough about the gizmo or the canister or what they do to say for sure. s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
OK really feeling more like this pipe should just be off, seing these great pictures and looking for hours.
I reset the ECU and its driving fine, although, I only went around the block.
In a minute I need to pop over to Slurpy's so I will report back after that.
Cheers,
/Philster.
Quote from: "spit"Can it be left dangling? I suspect it can but I'm afraid I don't know enough about the gizmo or the canister or what they do to say for sure. s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Yes it can - Hass set theirs up like that but I reconnected mine. That VSV pipe isn't the problem.
Quote from: "Slacey"That VSV pipe isn't the problem.
VSV ! That's it! s:roll: :roll: s:roll: thanks Sean - I had a mental block over the name of the thing..... me'n'phil still not got the foggies wot the binoculars case actually does though s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Phil - I'm back now - it was a lovely view s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "Slacey"Quote from: "spit"Can it be left dangling? I suspect it can but I'm afraid I don't know enough about the gizmo or the canister or what they do to say for sure. s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Yes it can - Hass set theirs up like that but I reconnected mine. That VSV pipe isn't the problem.
they do your sure?
Well it was fine over to epsom and back, a bit dull.
While there Slurpy cleaned my MAF for me with his new wonder spray (1600 pounds worth per can)
And its even clearer, next job is the plugs.
Cheers all,
Philster.
Quote from: "philster_d"And its even clearer, next job is the plugs.
Were they not changed as part of the install?
Nope
I fitted iridiums yesterday.
I had a flashing engine light, miraculously outside Dans house, so he read the codes - about 4 in all, my known error - the o2 heater circuit, and the others where missfires.
Then on the way back over to Marks I also had another incident of the car degrading unbelievably, like the symptoms I described before bogging all over.
The final solution last time was to reset the ECU so this time I pulled onto the hard shoulder and reset it again.
A few minutes later set off and it was fine so it doesnt look like an air leak after all?
I had a flashing orange engine light later (miraculously again outside Markiii's house s:lol: :lol: s:lol: ) so he got his code reader, but there was no codes to be read ? ? ?
Any ideas ? Ste's idea that the banks are fighting seems plausible ? Dans car was also ignition mapped at Thor, mine isnt.
Also, on reflection, maybe I should stay away from their houses s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Philster.
IIRC, when I had flashy CELs I also did get a code every time, but according to the BGB a flashy light is alway a bad misfire.
FWIW Phil, I also felt a slight bogging of the engine when I drove it at low revs and then went WOT. No way near as bad as mine used to be when running Jay's map, but it was definately there on occaision.
You sure there's no air leak between the MAF and fuel rail?
Quote from: "Ekona"You sure there's no air leak between the MAF and fuel rail?
Well no, but I dont know how I can tell ?
Ive exhausted the MK1 eyeball search s:( :( s:(
I;m not convinced an air leak would cause a misfire cel
sure it would run lean or bog, but ignition should be ok?
Ste, did you get anything liek this with your 02 issue?
Only real way to tell is to do a pressure test on the whole system manually, with a pressure guage and pumping the whole thing up to pressure whilst blocking off the exhaust. For now, I'd be tempted to remove the MAF and any couplings upward of it, and re-make every joint yourself just to eliminate anything.
Did you set the gaps correctly on your new spark plugs? I Once had an Escort RS Turbo, that could, when on full boost, quite literally blow the sparks out from the plugs. Huge misfire was the result...
well the plugs were gapped to 0.8mm
I checked, however, as to wether thast teh correct gap, I'm unsure, I just did as Phil asked.
Does anyone know differently?
Sean whats the gap for teh HAss supposed to be as you did mine?
Gap for the Hass is definately 0.032", which is indeed 0.8mm.
I suppose we could always reduce teh gaps and see if that helps?
Just for teh record, when it drives well, it's very very smooth, nice job Gas
Quote from: "markiii"I;m not convinced an air leak would cause a misfire cel
sure it would run lean or bog, but ignition should be ok?
Ste, did you get anything liek this with your 02 issue?
I can't read CELs Mark, but before I rectified the O2 issue an ECU reset would sort out all of the bogging, melting, leaning and riching....and Phil seems to be the same.
My problem was that the ECU was learning from duff data so the bogging was progressively worsening with each drive out. Open loop and onto the EManage map was fine though - the problem reared its head in slow pootling, idling and traffic. Given your comment above Mark, this seems spookily similar.
I've just seen that Phil's O2 placement is the same so it could be a explanation. If this
is the source, I suggest it gets fixed promptly with a 2-into-1 fix (with the bonus that you can get rid of your duff O2 Phil s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ) or carry a 10mm spanner and disconnect the battery frequently - my EGTs went ballistic until it was sorted.
thanks Ste,
Might be worth my mentioning that my pocketlogger can also monitor the 02 sensor voltage output.
sitting with the car staionary but the cel light flashing we were seeing some wildy varying output voltages from both primary 02 sensors
they would get very close and then diverge again, very close and diverge again.
and repeat
seeing as how the 02s are next to each other that surprised me a lot.
add that to your comments and I'm tending to agree.
Can you post details of how you fixed it Ste, I'm assuming common connect teh signal wires and put a resistor in one of teh heater circuits?
2 into one it is then, I guess.
I can leave the duff one in as a bung, ready for my wideband o2 that I havent got yet but need.
Philster.
Oh yeah and I was going to put an EGT ?
Mark - just emailed you a document I produced for Alberto. Let me know it arrives OK.
Alberto had the same issue but to a much lesser extent - moving 2-1 removed his 3k stumble.
If Phil's O2s are as widely mis-matched as your readings suggest, its worth a punt.
Yes, you just bridge the signal wires. Ground too but not entirely necessary as they're common at the ECU harness anyway.
If you don;t have a 15ohm or a bung handy, then just leave the redundant O2 in situ and use its own heater circuit.
Ste
Ste also suggested that as a solution to my problem: However, being the lazy git I am I never got round to trying it, and instead a re-map cured mine... s:? :? s:?
This still leaves the problem of the mis-fires though...
The misfires could be a side-effect of the ECU cranking one bank full rich and the other fulll lean.
Hass O2 placement is less likely to yield this problem, and even then its only exacerbated if the O2s are switching voltage at daftly different AFRs. Alberto's boggin was minor, so I suspect his O2s were better behaved than mine and Phil's.
It does seem to show up in pootling.
Can I get that doc again plz ty
got it cheers ste
it makes sense but based on that I wonder how the Hass arrangement works at all?
Phil,
I'll see if I can find teh ecu pins that make this safer than doing in teh engine bay
Mark you have PM. Ian's explanation of pin idents was bob-on - I bridged O2 signals at the harness as part of the wideband install, but reverted back as it wasn't as stable as the stocker O2 s:? :? s:?
just had another thought, Gas switched the snesors around as the 3rd o2 cable didn't need to be long anyomre and the one on teh right hand side of teh engine lokm did.
wonder if the primary o2s are better matched from tehfactory and that contributes?
could different lengths of cable to teh 2 primaries cause an imbalance?
Interesting theory Mark, but its only a voltage-related signal and the grounds are common .... so I doubt it. But I aint an electrical whizz like you s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
(and come to think of it, folk have replaced with generic O2s with variable wire-length without incident)
Widebands are a more sensitive to the choice of ground, but I think that's 'cos they work on a current principle and other electronics within the car can influence the readings .... or I may be talking tosh.
The plus side of doing it engine bay side will be to reroute the cables around the back maybe, away from some of the worst heat?
I dont have a socket or resistor but since we have some other electrical work yet to complete it makes sense to leave it until then anyway.
Philster.
Quote from: "markiii"just had another thought, Gas switched the snesors around as the 3rd o2 cable didn't need to be long anyomre and the one on the right hand side of the engine lokm did.
wonder if the primary o2s are better matched from tehfactory and that contributes?
could different lengths of cable to the 2 primaries cause an imbalance?
Again, I might be talking bollox but I doubt cable length will cause an imbalance as when I chatted to Ste (Spit) the std O2s act like an on/off switch and cable length is only likely to have a minor effect on the reading that, in the scheme of the level of change we're talking about, will be negligible. I think the fact that 1 O2 is in effect blocking the other O2 in the exhaust stream is the overiding factor
probably right ref cable length, but C2 o2 placement sists side by side so they don't block each other
..... irrespective of whether they "block" each other or not, the more crucial issue is that they are reading a 2-bank mix while the ECU is interpreting that as separate signals and trimming each bank accordingly..... so the ECU is effectively acting on duff info s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
agreed
my personal preference has always been an 02 per cylinder in an equal length manifold
mucho money to do right though and you'd need something like a top end Motec ECU to support it.
Quote from: "markiii"my personal preference has always been an 02 per cylinder in an equal length manifold
I miss the days of points, carbs, dizzy caps and timing marks.
This new-fangled stuff is all very well for you youngsters...... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
....mumbles off into the distance like a sad old f*rt.....
OK
Car was mapped and tuned today at Thor.
Total power was 220 bhp and we went up to about 11.9 ish psi.
Thanks a lot to Mark for accompanying me and technical backup.
See you guys soon for a look see.
Philster.
not forgetting that was at the wheels
Nice one Phil - you drive carefully now y'hear?
That's some serious poke there Phil. Hope it keeps on giving fun with no gremlins! s:) :) s:)
only the driver s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "philster_d"only the driver s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Just don't feed yourself after midnight!!! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Some observations on 11+ psi
1) My fuel is running out already (filled saturday) drove home from Marks and to work twice s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
2) I have only done 1 single launch from a standstill (I was being followed by a friend in his civic type R) I though ok good time for a demo. Dialed up high boost, waited for clear roads and then engaged.
The car flew off and wheelspan (twice) as I shifted from 1-2 and again at 3-4. Brutal.
Quote from: "philster_d"The car flew off and wheelspan (twice) as I shifted from 1-2 and again at 3-4. Brutal.
s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
I've PM'd Phil but hes not on at the mo. I read in the pre-hungary thread that he was going with a charge cooler route rather than IC, did he do this in the end?
cant locate any further pics or reference to it?
cheers
no he didn't, but he did add MAP and IGN harness prior to tune I believe
cheers bud s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I've e-mailed Gas abouyt my requirements, but I think the IC is going to need moving if i cant go charge cooler.
charge cooler would be my preference to be honest as I dont feel the IC locations are realy getting the best out of the system (just a personal opinion)
i'd agree on the IC Perry, i recorded some very high temps and ended up extending the scoop to get the best out of it based on that location.
you might want to ask Gas for his msn messenger address, he's on there regulary
cheers Stu
from your set up, do you think there is a straight length of pipe after the turbo long enough and in enough space to fit a PWR barrel style chargecooler as I had with my PE/MWR set up?
Sorry I had an IE crash last night and completely lost my thread. Then I had to go to work.
I did want to go charge cooler but didnt in the end due to not getting all the bits in time.
if your removeing the IC the theres loads of room for a barrel type CC, something along the lines of the ones that Thor use
cool, thanks guys
Had a brief chat with Mark at SP this morning and I think C2 is probs going to be my best route, albeit i'm going to go charge cooler rather than IC as I'm also looking at customising a veilside kit, (change front end) and i will have exhaust issues with the IC location.
If I open up the front end of the veili (as i dont like it) it should be better for the chargecooler rad, I can then get the C2 exhaust changed to exit at the right points for the veilside.
m http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6296/img04653xx.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6296/img04653xx.jpg) m
Any obvious reasons why this wouldnt work/fit ?