Hi everyone
Bought my first ever Mr2 (51) a couple of weeks ago, loving it.
I'm interested to see if it's up to par with the norm.
What sort of speed to revs do you get in each gear and whats the max revs in each gear you get
Hope this makes sense. s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Phil
Hit's the limiter just past 7k I think. About 7250 ?? Anyone know for sure... I'l sure someone will be along in a minute s:) :) s:)
oh, mine only seems to hit about 5500 in 3rd
What, even with your foot flat to the floor? You should be doing 90-ish in 3rd gear near the redline...
*not on a public road, obviously s:wink: :wink: s:wink: *
Yup, it's fine till about 5000 then goes up really slowly ( doing about 65-70)
I only ask all this because i'm sure it was alot faster when i first had it, and the revs used to go all the way to red. it was serviced 2-3 weeks ago, and i've only noticed it last couple of weeks.
I'm getting worried now s:cry: :cry: s:cry: s:( :( s:(
Check your oil level asap. Just in case...
oils fine, at top of the mark s:D :D s:D
Any other ideas???
*Mod*
Moved thread.
*/Mod*
See what happens after a MAF clean and an ECU reset.
Quote from: "Phil-yarde"oh, mine only seems to hit about 5500 in 3rd
Take it it seems to take a while to get there, and feels quite slow? if so it Sounds like your main catalyst is blocked with lots of bits of broken precat and causing excessive backpressure.
I would suggest inspecting the top side of your precats through the hole for the 02 sensor. If they are intact, the bottom half may still have fallen apart to block the cat, but can cross that bridge if you come to it.
Richie.
Quote from: "Phil-yarde"oils fine, at top of the mark s:D :D s:D
Any other ideas???
Perhaps they have overfilled it with oil, my garage did this once and it seemed to mess the performance up quite a bit. If so, I would try and let some oil out as I still think this is what contributed to my engine failure. I wouldn't be able to prove that though.
Thanks Ekona
Didnt mean to muck you around,was just trying to keep the right topics in the right place s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
I'll try it now, any particular wire i need to disconect from the battery(sorry, total noooooob)
Thanks for all your halp so far s:D :D s:D
No worries mate, it's what I'm here for!
Make sure you disconnect the negative (black) cable from the battery, not the red one.
Always, always disconnect the negative (black one s;) ;) s;) ) lead first on a battery..
Always..
Always s;) ;) s;)
Just pop that one off (don't worry about any little sparks as you pull it) and leave it off for a while to reset the ECU.
Although no power over 5000rpm sounds like fairly classic early signs of precat death to me s:( :( s:(
[edit] Beaten to it by Dan, apparently..
My thoughts too.
Phil, read the pre-cat sticky in this forum, taking note about how to check your pre-cats (like Richie said) from the top. And do it sooner rather than later if the MAF/reset doesn't do anything.
O GOD s:( :( s:( s:( :( s:( , Gunna re set the ECU first
I'll have to get the 02 socket thing.
Does anyone live near me?
Quote from: "Phil-yarde"O GOD s:( :( s:( s:( :( s:( , Gunna re set the ECU first
I'll have to get the 02 socket thing.
Does anyone live near me?
If the worst has happend (touch would it hasn't) and your car has a FSH, is under 5 years old and and has a reasonable mileage, toyota will replace / repair your engine free of charge. Dont think they will do the CAT's though, so may be worth purchasing an extended warranty.
Anyway, Im getting a bit ahead of things here, I'll let you check your precats first before doing any more speculating.
Right, i've disconected the negative.
Phil-yarde wrote:
oh, mine only seems to hit about 5500 in 3rd
Take it it seems to take a while to get there, and feels quite slow? if so it Sounds like your main catalyst is blocked with lots of bits of broken precat and causing excessive backpressure.
It gets there quite quickly, then just slows down.
Oil is on the max line.
What part of Derbyshire are you from?
Tibshelf, near Alfreton
Just been out again, seemed quite beefy to start with, got over 6500 in 3rd.
But when the engine warmed up properly it's back to 5000 again.
Just rang a mates uncle who works for Toyota and explaned things.
He says he doubts its anything to do with pre cats and thinks it's prob a sensor playing up because of the lose of power when it warms up.
Please dont think i'm saying anyone is wrong, i'm just getting really scared, and i know i'm not going now worying that it's the pre cat thing
Ment to say "i know i wont sleep now thinking about this"
Should i just take it to nearest toyota garage and let them look at it?
back to what richie said about toyota sorting it. the car was reg in 01/09/02, has full service history and just done over 60,000.
I need to drive it to work tommorow, will that be ok?
Thanks again for everyones help
Sorry ment first reg in 01/09/01 s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Does the "worse when warmed up" idea help conferm the pre cat idea?
Quote from: "Phil-yarde"Ment to say "i know i wont sleep now thinking about this"
Should i just take it to nearest toyota garage and let them look at it?
back to what richie said about toyota sorting it. the car was reg in 01/09/02, has full service history and just done over 60,000.
I need to drive it to work tommorow, will that be ok?
Thanks again for everyones help
With all due respect to your friends uncle, many people have difficulty getting an acceptance of the precat theory from toyota employees, regardless of how experienced they are or how good an engineer they are. I think many mechanics find the theory hard to understand as they are not overly familiar with the workings of this engine and the precatalyst setup.
With this said, it may be worth taking it to Toyota for a diagnosis in case they have some sort of knowledge base for similar symptoms. I wouldn't commit to letting them carry out any work, unless they assure you that you won't be paying for it.
In my opinion, if it was a sensor causing the problems, you would see the check engine light on your dashboard illuminate.
The guys at Ayr Toyota and Helensburgh toyota (independant from one-another) have both told me that as a rule of thumb, toyota will consider a goodwill repair as long as your car is <5 years old, is within average miles and has been serviced at the correct intervals using genuine toyota parts. Each case is dealt with individually though, so this may vary.
I had my shortblock replaced just last month and was actually refused the claim upon first attempt (on the basis of age), however my dealer phoned up and spoke to the guy in charge of approving it and it got sorted out as my car had only become 5 years old by a few days. see my post here:
m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... ht=#136980 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=136980&highlight=#136980) m
As for driving to work tomorrow, I would recomend not using it if at all possible until you have clarified the fault. With precat failure, everything becomes a vicious circle and deteriarates very quickly.
as for the heating up - losing power thing, I cant think of any reason why this would have a bearing if it were precat failure, could just be coincidental.
sorry to here of your woes mate, I only hope all the precat stuff i've written above isn't neccesary. I know how horrible the feeling is, as I've had one roadster with precat failure and another with excessive bore wear.
All the best,
Richie.
Thanks richie, your making me feel better. s:D :D s:D
Work is on the way to toyota, so i'll drive to work and phone them up when they're open, and hopfully take it to them in the evening. s:D :D s:D
Wont get a loan car this soon but it dosnt matter (do they actually charge you for using one?)
If it isnt the pre cat thing (i really hope it isnt) i'm definatly gunna get the little !!^&**£$$ ripped out, i've looked at the step through, i'm a bit worried about doing it my self though s:( :( s:(
Again, thanks to everyone who helped s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Even though i wont sleep now cos of you lot s:evil: :evil: s:evil: s:evil: :evil: s:evil: s:D :D s:D
Your Welcome mate
Quote from: "Phil-yarde"do they actually charge you for using one?)
My dealership provide free courtesy cars with free insurance, other dealers make you provide your own insurance, some make you pay for the usage of the car and a few wont give you a car at all.
Just thought, i didnt buy the car from a toyota garage, will that possably affect the good will idea?
Although, i bought my previous car from them ( Corsa SXI s:oops: :oops: s:oops: ) and i've always gone back to them for repairs and to service the MR2.
Quote from: "Phil-yarde"Just thought, i didnt buy the car from a toyota garage, will that possably affect the good will idea?
Although, i bought my previous car from them ( Corsa SXI s:oops: :oops: s:oops: ) and i've always gone back to them for repairs and to service the MR2.
I bought my car privately and it didnt matter, although every service & repair in my book has been carried out by Helensburgh toyota.
Only two of the four service stamps are from Toyota garages. so i might have a problem.
Failing that i do have some sort of Warrantee from the garage i bought it from, although they are only a small garage
Quote from: "Richie"In my opinion, if it was a sensor causing the problems, you would see the check engine light on your dashboard illuminate.
Not
always.. There are some sensors where it's just virtually impossible for the ECU to tell a wrong signal from a correct signal, unless the sensor goes totally open-circuit -- inlet air temp and coolant temp for example - the ECU can't possibly know that the sensor that's reading 30C coolant is really sat in 100C coolant, so it has no basis for lighting a CEL until the sensor goes open circuit and ceases to read anything.
The only way around that would be full redundancy on every sensor on the car..
The fact that the power is there when cold would actually make me think it's a sensor issue too -- if it was excessive backpressure strangling the engine it would almost certainly do that regardless of operating temperature.
That said, I haven't read of anyone having an IAT or coolant temp sensor fail and cause those particular symptoms on the 1ZZ-FE (though it's a pretty common mode of failure on the 3S-GTE, GE and VG30DE
engines), perhaps we simply don't have a large enough cold-running correction to make a difference.. someone who's seen the stock maps could perhaps confirm that (if anyone has).
I presume the OBD-II specs make provisions for reading sensor outputs off over the diagnostic port (if my 1989 designed non-OBD Nissan ECU does, I'm sure OBD-II will) then someone with a proper diagnostic computer (not just a code reader) should be able to look at the output of the various sensors under cold & warm running conditions and easily see if it's the coolant temp sensor (or any other sensor) playing up.
AFAIK the only place you're liable to find a diagnostic rig like that, though, is Toyota..... if I said anything more it could probably be construed as liable, so I won't s;) ;) s;)
Anyway, try not to fret over this too much.. honest.
And, if you can, see if you can find a localish member who would be willing to lend you their MAF, O2's and coolant temp sensor (not sure how feasible swapping that one over will be, however), so that you can see if those fix it. That's by far the easiest route to resolution in this case, IMHO.
on the basis that it might be teh IAC
might be worth cleaning it and see if that helps
It's the pre cats s:cry: :cry: s:cry: s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
Toyota want nearly £1800 to fix it s:cry: :cry: s:cry: s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
Told them, err, NO!!!
Thats to replace the front manifold pre cat section and the main cat.Charging me £150+vat for telling me that.
They say there is no damage to the engine though.
Question 1 If i was gunna rip out the pre cats anyway, cant i just clean up that section (rip out whats left of the pre cats) and use it again? I know toyota want to replace it, but i suppose they've got to.
Question 2 How bad does the main cat have to be to stop working? is it possable to get the debris of the pre cats out of that section and still use that part? or am i just dreaming.
Can only get the Main cat section from Toyota (£650 s:cry: :cry: s:cry: ) I've tried ATS, kwik fit and selectatyre
Gut your pre-cats NOW, change the whole main cat, and start praying. You may be lucky, you may not, but right now this is your only option.
After i've got the car back i dont plan to drive it till i've ripped them out.
I've been offered a second hand main cat section £100. what do you recon, is it worth it or not recomended?
Although i did read on this site that getting performance parts are actually cheaper then Mr T. anyone recomend anywhere to get these parts?
yes
Is that a yes to getting the second hand part?
yes
Just rang them up, is it the second part of the pipe i want ( the bottom part they called it) next to the back box
Quote from: "Phil-yarde"Just rang them up, is it the second part of the pipe i want ( the bottom part they called it) next to the back box
That's a pretty vague description, but yes.. the main CAT comes off the bottom of the manifold, runs along the very bottom of the exhaust run then turns back up to connect to the back box.
Incidentally - ask if it's from a UK car or import, or whether it has the third O2 sensor or not. UK cars have one, Japanese cars do not.. One can be made to fit the other (leave the sensor in as a bung if you have a J-spec car and UK CAT, or have a bung welded in if vice versa)
yes
Yes it's a UK car (03)
£130 all in with postage s:) :) s:)
Suppose i'll need gaskets now s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
I'd like to thank everyone again for all the help, you have no idea how much i appreciate it s:D :D s:D
PS
Is it a goop idea to get the car toed home now that they have said there is no engine damage?
Quote from: "Phil-yarde"PS
Is it a goop idea to get the car toed home now that they have said there is no engine damage?
get it towed, if you start the engine before the cats are gutted and the main cat replaced then its definatley bye bye to the engine, if its not too far gone now already.
just out of interest, how does Mr.T know the engines ok anyway??
Hope it all works out fine Phil.
Hi Phil, glad its not all as bad as it seemed.
As written here, gut your precats and replace the main catalyst (its unfeasible to get all of the broken precat out of your current one and you could risk bits getting into your engine)
Dont start your engine again until you have both gutted the manifold and replaced the main cat to avoid any contamination with precat material.
£130 is a good price to pay for your Cat.
Hope it all goes ok, let us know how you get on.
Richie.
They know the engine is ok cos they spent 3 hours spliting the engine down looking for the problem untill they found that it was the exhaust (Well thats what they say they are charging me £150+vat for)
As for starting the engine, will i have to put it on ramps to get at it all?
Quote from: "Phil-yarde"They know the engine is ok cos they spent 3 hours spliting the engine down looking for the problem untill they found that it was the exhaust (Well thats what they say they are charging me £150+vat for)
the problem is Phil is that without a microscope even the most eage eyed mechanic at a toyota garage wont be able to see the microscopic particle that will damage the internals of your engine. I'm afraid all you can do is hope you caught it in time and keep your fingers crossed
Quote from: "Phil-yarde"As for starting the engine, will i have to put it on ramps to get at it all?
nope, you can just remove the rear bumper and crash bar, that'll give you enough access, instructions on bumper removal are in the articles section
One suggestion Phil, before you start hacking at the precats, study them carefully, top and bottom.
This will give you an indication (an indication only, remember) as to what might be coming up. The worse the damage to them, the more likely you could have engine problems, though as Stu says, it only needs one small bit, and..........
Best of luck, mate
Hi everyone
Just an update, exhaust came couple of days ago.
I've gutted one of the pre cats (was still like new) and the car had already gutted the other one for me. s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
Been driving the car for 2 days now, everything seems fine so far, car drives like a dream and no oil loss so far.
Am i out of the woods yet?
Quote from: "Phil-yarde"Hi everyone
Just an update, exhaust came couple of days ago.
I've gutted one of the pre cats (was still like new) and the car had already gutted the other one for me. s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
Been driving the car for 2 days now, everything seems fine so far, car drives like a dream and no oil loss so far.
Am i out of the woods yet?
You've got to ask yourself, where did the other precat go?
It's wont get out of the exhaust, the main cat is in the way. So it's probably sitting there clogging it up.
Time to look for a new main cat?
Simon
err, the main cat was the exhaust that arrived s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "Phil-yarde"err, the main cat was the exhaust that arrived s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Doh, teach me to read part of a thread! s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Sorry about that! As you were everyone!
Simon
So what problems should i be looking out for now with the engine, after the pre cat failure. other pre cat gutted and new main cat insatalled 4 days ago
so far she drives luuuuvly and no oil consumption s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "Phil-yarde"so far she drives luuuuvly and no oil consumption s:D :D s:D
Thats an encouraging start. Hope you did catch it in time and all of that missing precat went south. This would seem likely as you mention that - apart from the high-end revs issue which you picked up on very quickly - things were pretty much OK before, yes?
Not really much more you can do than keep a healthy eye on it and stick to a good schedule for oil changes.
If damage has already been done, its already been done: not much you can do about that either.
I'd be inclined to get out and enjoy your car s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
ps Do you know where the s/h main cat came from? eg was it from a write-off rather than a '2 with a knackered engine?
yes mate, the car it came off of had an argument with another a car a lost, one side smashed up.
Yes the car was fine before.
A mate did say it had "white smoke" coming out the exhaust when we were, err, driving with spirit. a couple of days before the lack of revs problem, so hopfully that was most of the pre cat s:) :) s:)
I'd like to thank everyone for there help and advise over the last couple of weeks s:D :D s:D s:D :D s:D s:D :D s:D s:D :D s:D
Ps, how often for the oil changes?
Hi
Just an update really.
It's been a couple of weeks now and everything is fine so far, although i did just top the oil up a bit, other than that i havent noticed anything else.