Seriously thinking of going 2zz (on the cheap hopefully) if i can source all the kit s:) :) s:)
m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... Track=true (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170036552919&fromMakeTrack=true) m
Id need help sorting out the conversion though s:) :) s:)
Alex
*MOD* Edit to correct spelling of 'Rogue' in the title - Dan
looks nice and clean... low mileage to. i would love to put that in mine. just no nothing about fitting and what i would need
If you don't managed to win that one, speak to Patrick at Rogue, he's got one in at the moment which is the same spec. They would fit it as well - for a price s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Thanks
Rob
Yes, that's the 2ZZ that are used in swaps. s8) 8) s8)
Might wanna browse old topics about it and check the Library in SC as well, if you're serious about it. s;) ;) s;)
"Genuine reason for sale (purchased wrong engine spec for my celica and was not fully refundable,hence for sale.)"
Is he saying he wanted a 1ZZ, but bought a 2ZZ? s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
cheers guys, i'll ask him s:) :) s:) Thanks for the superfast replies s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "FGRob"If you don't managed to win that one, speak to Patrick at Rogue, he's got one in at the moment which is the same spec. They would fit it as well - for a price s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Thanks
Rob
Rob, whts the website for rogue (its rouge motorsports or something isnt it?)
Quote from: "northernalex"Quote from: "FGRob"If you don't managed to win that one, speak to Patrick at Rogue, he's got one in at the moment which is the same spec. They would fit it as well - for a price s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Thanks
Rob
Rob, whts the website for rogue (its rouge motorsports or something isnt it?)
Its w www.roguesystems.co.uk (http://www.roguesystems.co.uk) w
Good luck.
Anyone have any more information about Rogue's 2zz service?
I looked on their website (http://www.revision6.com/Services/EngineTransplants.aspx) and there's nothing about it.
Ernie
You would need to speak with Patrick, they tend to look at it case by case.
Thanks
Rob
another one here £1200 buy it now <20000kms doesnt include starter motor alternator etc
EBAY 2ZZ (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-CELICA-VVTL-I-ENGINE-2ZZ-GE_W0QQitemZ170029098260QQihZ007QQcategoryZ10428QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Has anyone been given even a ballpark price for the conversion?
email them man .. I'm planing on email them in a bit too.
Thanks all for your help s:) :) s:)
I was there a few weeks ago, patrick was saying these arent easy to source. But it is a service they are starting to get interest about.
Rogue Systems Limited
01676 530222
Cheers,
Philster.
Hi Guys,
We're going through a 1ZZ -> 2ZZ conversion at the moment. Once we've finished we'll be able to offer a fixed price service for a basic install.
The target car is on the webcam at the moment:
http://217.36.231.130/
Best regards,
Patrick Mortell
Rogue Motorsport Ltd
01676 530222
Quote from: "Rogue"Hi Guys,
We're going through a 1ZZ -> 2ZZ conversion at the moment. Once we've finished we'll be able to offer a fixed price service for a basic install.
The target car is on the webcam at the moment:
http://217.36.231.130/
Best regards,
Patrick Mortell
Rogue Motorsport Ltd
01676 530222
Is that the black one in the corner?
Is that the engine you offered me?
Thanks
Rob
nice, cheers guys, i guess it wouldnt be a probnlem if i already had the engine sourced s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "FGRob"Is that the black one in the corner?
Yup!
Quote from: "FGRob"Is that the engine you offered me?
Not that particular engine, but the 2ZZ would've been the one we discussed. It's a good progression from the 1ZZ, and gives you roughly the same power to weight ratio as a mk2 turbo.
Patrick
I see you are getting your hands dirty again in that red 2 s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Patrick,
I'd be VERY interested to hear the outcome of this install as this is something I'm seriously considerening myself.
Steve.
Quote from: "SteveM"Patrick,
I'd be VERY interested to hear the outcome of this install as this is something I'm seriously considerening myself.
Steve.
You and me both. All of a sudden there are several different realistic directions with increasing the power on the 2 s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "heathstimpson"Quote from: "SteveM"Patrick,
I'd be VERY interested to hear the outcome of this install as this is something I'm seriously considerening myself.
Steve.
You and me both. All of a sudden there are several different realistic directions with increasing the power on the 2 s8) 8) s8)
And in most installs you will also have an engine for resale to offset the cost s:P :P s:P
My wallet is cringeing in the corner crying "save me, save me"!
s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
A couple of teaser photos for you:
2ZZGE looking snug in the back of a roadster:
(http://www.roguemotorsport.com/images/misc/2zz/testfit.jpg)
The same 2ZZGE engine properly dressed and waiting to be installed.
(http://www.roguemotorsport.com/images/misc/2zz/pretty2zz.jpg)
Just waiting for parts to come in now (clutch and ECU) and then we can finalise the conversion. Looks like it'll be quite reasonably priced too!
Best regards,
Patrick Mortell
Rogue Motorsport Ltd
01676 530222
Nice, where's the airbox gone.
I was under the impression that the stock clutch would be ok? At least until it burns out?
Reasonable price, it gets nicer and nicer s:) :) s:)
Nice one rouge, I'm sure you'll get a lot of business from this one.
Oh and patrick, can you ask your customer what his hike in insurance is like after the conversion? s:) :) s:)
IF the swap can be done at reasonable cost, Patrick will have to beat away the hordes of customers with a big stick!
I think this will be very popular if its cheap.
Quote from: "loadswine"IF the swap can be done at reasonable cost, Patrick will have to beat away the hordes of customers with a big stick!
I think this will be very popular if its cheap.
I agree as has been said you can sell your 1zz afterwards too! !
Depending on the price etc I would seriously consider it. However a conversion kit from littlerocket is available if you want to do it youself. Could be a bit of a pain getting a decent 2zz engine etc but I'm sure there are pleanty of breakers with one. (or adam???)
ALex
Quote from: "northernalex"Nice, where's the airbox gone.
It's just not installed - the purpose of the test-fit was to confirm that the engine mount was correct.
Quote from: "northernalex"I was under the impression that the stock clutch would be ok? At least until it burns out?
The clutch needed changing anyway. s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "northernalex"Oh and patrick, can you ask your customer what his hike in insurance is like after the conversion? s:) :) s:)
Will do.
Patrick
Hi Patrick,
It's looking more tempting all the time!
Will you be able to source the engines too and if so what's the availability of very low mileage units like? It's just that my 1zz has only done 5k miles so I wouldn't really want to swap it for anything that had done more than say 10K.
Steve.
Any update yet Patrick ?
We're waiting......
s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:D :D s:D
I wonder how much of the C2 power kit can be "migrated" ? s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
everything bar the manifold
and i'm willing to bet that can be adapted
flange and exhaust ports are all wrong
might be able to modify tehHass manifold but teh C2 is cast, can you weld cast iron?
yeah i know the flange is wrong, but surely an adaptation could be done to it, not sure weather you can weld to cast iron, i'm guessing not, but we have a premade model to cast a new one from s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
You can weld cast iron.
It's not easy and one shouldn't try it, unless he knows what he's doing. But it can be done. s8) 8) s8)
Probably a good idea to just make a new one though. It's not that expensive in the end.
You know what gas is like, he'll probably knock you one up overnight and have it in the post by the next day. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
now that wouldn't surprise me if he could, guys a fabricating guru IMHO
And I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Gas had something to do with the trial turbo'd 2zz MR2, just depends whether what i read was correct! Either way he's played with alot of 2zz's in the past so it's no tall order. Are you getting one stu/phil? s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
money, the usual bestower of all misery and inability to do mods, perhaps in the future, if my engine were to go bang, then yes, till then its a no s:( :( s:(
anyone got a bag of sugar?
Quote from: "kanujunkie"money, the usual bestower of all misery and inability to do mods, perhaps in the future, if my engine were to go bang, then yes, till then its a no s:( :( s:(
anyone got a bag of sugar?
NO!! you've not resorted to dealing in glucose ! First an ASBO, now the hard stuff!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: See, now the truth comes out..
How many bags of white stuff did they find^H^H^H^Hplant on you then Stu? s;) ;) s;)
Ahem, anyway.. back on topic s:) :) s:)
for the engine, make it go bang and then slip it pass the mrs s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Exactly what I have always said, wont swap unless I had a problem with this one.
Trouble is I simply have to reality check before I waste anymore money on this car. New engine, fitting, returbo. remap. *shakes head* I see my dreams of home ownership fading s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
and Id still be ignoring the total impracticality of not having a boot 4 seats etc. Im half considering the pajero as a second practical car, but it seems so anti the planet having 2 gas guzzlers sitting outsides (2 insurance 2 tax etc)
northernalex, it looks like you're "taking the plunge". Let me know if I can help in any way.
Quote from: "philster_d"Trouble is I simply have to reality check before I waste anymore money on this car.
I like the way you use "waste" rather than spend there phil! s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
I'm seriously thinking about something like this for next year (after I get my suspension sorted).
But I'm a little concerned that the 2zz is much harder to drive because of the RPM where the lift comes in (6000+) than, say, a TTE turbo or Prolex UK's supercharger project.
Does it really behave just like a 1zz below the lift threshold? If so, I can see why that would be great for the track, where you're keeping the revs high. But I can't see what it would add for street use. Sure, sometimes I get the revs up that high, but those times are fairly rare on the street.
Maybe I just don't drive hard enough. s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
If there's a Lotus dealer near you, try and get a test drive of both of the Elises (the S and the R), as they've got the two engines in question. Although the Elise is somewhat more focused than the '2, it'll give you a great idea as to how different the car can feel with the extra rev range and power.
As beanie says, I'm seriously contemplating going for the plunge if the price is right and insurance possible etc. It will be feburary when I do it though as I want to wait till my year's no claims is up.
Quote from: "andy b"Quote from: "philster_d"Trouble is I simply have to reality check before I waste anymore money on this car.
I like the way you use "waste" rather than spend there phil! s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Its appropriate when the total mods for the car is running at around 14k (without the labour and servicing and stuff)
The car only cost me 10.5k :s
Quote from: "philster_d"Quote from: "andy b"Quote from: "philster_d"Trouble is I simply have to reality check before I waste anymore money on this car.
I like the way you use "waste" rather than spend there phil! s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Its appropriate when the total mods for the car is running at around 14k (without the labour and servicing and stuff)
The car only cost me 10.5k :s
When you put it that way i suppose it is! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Has anyone heard the latest on this from Rogue? There were a few people who seemed very interested(me included)but the thread seems to have died s:? :? s:?
SteveJ is heading to Rogue at the weekend to see if his engine is bollocksed so should be able to give you an update when he gets back.
Cheers Mark.
Have emailed Patrick direct to see if there is any news?
Sorry for the lack of updates guys - so many forums, so little time!
The job was held up while we waited for an Apexi PowerFC to arrive from Japan, and then again while we waited for a Celica 6 speed box.
All installed and running now, just some ECU tweeking required before it goes out on the road:
(http://www.roguemotorsport.com/images/misc/2zz/swap1.jpg)
(http://www.roguemotorsport.com/images/misc/2zz/swap2.jpg)
(http://www.roguemotorsport.com/images/misc/2zz/swap3.jpg)
We can do this all day every day now if we need to! We'll sit down and work out prices and timescales before the end of the week.
Best regards,
Patrick Mortell
Rogue Motorsport Ltd
01676 530222
Looking good s:) :) s:) I cant see a dipstick though, maybe its just me??
Quote from: "northernalex"Looking good s:) :) s:) I cant see a dipstick though, maybe its just me??
(http://www.roguemotorsport.com/images/misc/2zz/dipstick.jpg)
Let me know if that images isn't clear enough and I'll do it again at a higher resolution.
Best regards,
Patrick Mortell
Rogue Motorsport Ltd
01676 530222
ahh s:) :) s:) nice one s:) :) s:)
(i need me eyes tested s:) :) s:) )
that's my car!!
mapping as we speak;
hoping for some good news tomorrow
i promise that you'll be the first to hear
btw apparently the six speed gearbox is essential to get the most out of the increased cam lift/duration of the 2zz, hence the wait while i sourced one.
i live in the sticks and am somewhat nocturnal, tend to find i use all the revs available to me, so this conversion makes good sense.
ultimately i forsee forced induction, whether it's a GT28rs or a Rotrex supercharger remains to be seen. i am told that the standard celica clutch will be sufficient until then, after that i'm looking at £350+vat for something stronger
regards,
(a very excited)
gav
Gav,
wheres the EDFC for those TEINs? s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
The new engine looks nice though, wish i could afford to have it done! s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
yeah cool, just wish there was a cast manifold to mate it to a nice turbo s8) 8) s8)
Can't wait to see the figures and hear what you think of it Gav! s:D :D s:D
.
Quote from: "philster_d"yeah cool, just wish there was a cast manifold to mate it to a nice turbo s8) 8) s8)
Depending on results of a leakdown test on my engine (poorly at the mo s:-( :-( s:-( ), watch this space s;) ;) s;)
damn hope you change your socks as often, last week you reckoned a 2zz totally unsuitable for a roadster.
s:D :D s:D
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "markiii"damn hope you change your socks as often, last week you reckoned a 2zz totally unsuitable for a roadster.
s:D :D s:D
As a road car s;) ;) s;) s;) ;) s;)
Ferrari Enzo is a road car, is a 2zz turbo'd roadster quicker somehow? Must be on Jay-K's to buy list. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
No car is too OTT for the road (unless it has rocket boosters) as long as it has a smooth tune that allows you to potter around still (like the McLaren F1 does according to tiff). You are in control of how far you push the accelerator down I would hope! s:? :? s:?
.
Quote from: "LeeUK"Ferrari Enzo is a road car, is a 2zz turbo'd roadster quicker somehow? Must be on Jay-K's to buy list. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
No car is too OTT for the road (unless it has rocket boosters) as long as it has a smooth tune that allows you to potter around still (like the McLaren F1 does according to tiff). You are in control of how far you push the accelerator down I would hope! s:? :? s:?
I was referring to the fact that to get the best out of the 2zz you need to keep the revs up which doesnt make for a relaxing drive.
2ZZ turbo gives you the best of both worlds (and more s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: )
I'm sooo in a hurry to get my 6spd egarbox !!
2ZZ + Euro 5spd is crap s:-( :-( s:-(
Congrats Gav (you lucky sod s;) ;) s;) ) s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "SteveJ"I was referring to the fact that to get the best out of the 2zz you need to keep the revs up which doesnt make for a relaxing drive.
So, no different from the 1ZZ then? Because we all know what a powerhouse the 1ZZ is under 4000rpm.. s;) ;) s;)
So guessing by your post, your not excited at all then.... s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
c'mon mr Rogue, I think you need to get some prices up!!!
Just so I can see how much I'm gonna have to try and squirrel away without the Mrs finding out!!! s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Quote from: "SteveJ"I was referring to the fact that to get the best out of the 2zz you need to keep the revs up which doesnt make for a relaxing drive.
Anyone here buy a Roadster so they could have a relaxing drive?
Anyone?
Thought not.
Glad you're happy with the finished car Gavman. I must admit, due to my circumstances having changed somewhat recently, this thread is currently interesting me a great deal, so I'd love to hear what you think of the car after a week, a month etc. Be nice to get a good writeup for the website too, if you fancy it.
Quote from: "dieamond"I'm sooo in a hurry to get my 6spd egarbox !!
2ZZ + Euro 5spd is crap s:-( :-( s:-(
Does anyone have any thoughts on whether a J-spec 5speed box would be any better due to the slightly different ratios, or any worse for that matter? I'm just trying to decide if I'm going to do this conversion or go turbo, and obviously the cost of a 6speed box adds a fair bit to the over budget required so I was hoping to get away with keeping my 5speed?
By the way I went to Rogue yesterday to have a chat to Patrick and was lucky enough to get a ride in Gavs car! I can therefore confirm everything Gav has said, it's a LOT quicker than a 1zz and sounds amazing s:D :D s:D It just revss, and revs, and revs.....! Overall I was really impressed with it, and I must add that the work and thought put into the conversion by Rogue seemed to be first class plus Partick and Matt are both really nice guys.
Anyone know of any low mileage 2zz engines for sale! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
seeing as how teh US and J-spec ratios are teh same I'd say it will be a problem.
all the gusy in teh us have swapped to teh celica box
Quote from: "Rogue"We'll sit down and work out prices and timescales
Patrick, looks like you have one very satisfied customer there!
Will Rogue be offering a 'turnkey' solution i.e. drive the car to Rogue on Monday morning and drive it home on Friday afernoon with a 2ZZ under the lid and a 6-speed box?
Or would the customer need to source the engine and gearbox themselves?
Mark - thanks for the reply, I guess that's what I was expecting but not wanting to hear s:( :( s:(
Jez - after speaking to Patrick yesterday yes this will be an option, however they are just as happy for you to supply your own parts if you wish. He did say though that both the engines and boxes can proove quite hard to source and they've had experience of ordering a 2zz and being sent a 1zz as the supplier didn't seem to know the difference!
Quote from: "markiii"seeing as how the US and J-spec ratios are the same I'd say it will be a problem.
all the gusy in the us have swapped to the celica box
+1
.
how did Rogue do the shift linkage modification ?
i'd be inclined to let rogue answer that one
it's an area that could merit further development
all too easy to mix 1st and reverse currently
at the lights keeps the car behind guessing!
Quote from: "gavman"i'd be inclined to let rogue answer that one
it's an area that could merit further development
all too easy to mix 1st and reverse currently
at the lights keeps the car behind guessing!
Oh so you "lost" the reverse "lock" there's on Celicas
Quote from: "dieamond"I'm sooo in a hurry to get my 6spd egarbox !!
2ZZ + Euro 5spd is crap s:-( :-( s:-(
give adam (jap gt300) a pm. he had several on the shelf when we last spoke
yes, i have lost the reverse "lock"
Quote from: "gavman"Quote from: "dieamond"I'm sooo in a hurry to get my 6spd egarbox !!
2ZZ + Euro 5spd is crap s:-( :-( s:-(
give adam (jap gt300) a pm. he had several on the shelf when we last spoke
I ordered one from Little Rocket on Spyderchat in august and I'm still waiting for it s:-( :-( s:-(
Adam sold me a broken 2ZZ and was really bad on customer service so I avoided him this time.
a certain amount of cajoling was required
but he was half the price anyone else quoted me
and the only one with stock
hope i am not being a noob or anything, but will the conversion alter the roadsters 50:50 weight distribution?
technically speaking nope
ok, i'm not sure whether i should start a new thread here. i'll let the mods decide
for i have a question for the techheads
is it possible to stroke my 2zz to 1.9 by using the crank from my 1zz engine?
has anyone done it?
might swing the old 2zz v turbo debate
although i've always thought in terms of 2zz then turbo
speaking of which,
i've two 28/60's on my gtr, each one rated for 350hp.
it's a 3 litre engine, so that means 1.5 litre per turbo
and this is reckoned to be the most responsive (smallest) setup around
so a 1.8 or 1.9 with the same GT28rs should be a very happy engine indeed; quick spooling with an easy 350atfw to be had? i'm sure this has been done...
but i digress
the main question is whether i can stroke my 2zz with my 1zz crank?
it's just sitting there, and to buy one would be thousands- £3500 for a cheap skyline one i know first hand!
so it'd be mad not to use it if i can?? s:?: :?: s:?:
gav
I beleive teh 1zz crank can be used yes.
ref teh turbo even teh gt28r doesn't spool as fast as you'd think.
if I were doing teh turbo again I'd be looking at a hybrid such as Thors GT25/28 on which teh spool is much better
hmmm mine spools in a blink
I'm going to post teh overlay of mine against Niegle PE in a mo then you will see what I mean,
it's not slow, but it's not quick either
has anyone done the crank swap?
what else would i need?
would it prevent the car from revving so high?
seems to me it would increase torque...
rod bell reckons the gtr will make 1 bar @2500rpm
i do get my GT28r and my GT28rs mixed up
i meant the 350hp as opposed to the 400hp version
rod just calls them 28/60's,
but they're aka disco potatoes (!)
The 28R makes 10psi at just under 4000rpm: The RS will make that at about 4500 (ish), and that's not even 1bar (which is 14.7psi). 1bar at 2500 with the R isn't going to happen. The 350hp will def be the RS version.
Gav, there is porecious little info on teh crank swap.
it is often refured to as a 3zz engine, thoug be carefull as I beleive there an actual toyota engine with that designation as well.
happy to help as far as I can but I think there is liekly to be more knowledge on this one on SC
however ys a longer stroke will give more torque, but you may lose a little of teh rev happiness of teh 2zz.
looking at Web3s posts on SC I think an supercharger will better suit the nature of teh 2zz than a turbo
Quote from: "gavman"i'd be inclined to let rogue answer that one
it's an area that could merit further development
all too easy to mix 1st and reverse currently
at the lights keeps the car behind guessing!
Gav I must admit I noticed this when Patrick took me out in your car and to be honest it did worry me a little. Perhaps Patrick can let us know if they intend to develop it further? For me even small niggles like this could put me off s:( :( s:( Does anyone know if the guys in the US have this problem with the Little Rocket shaft?
If I get mine one day I'll tell you
just a note : US are generally a little retarded with MT (:-D) so I don't think they could live with such a picky one :p
Quote from: "dieamond"If I get mine one day I'll tell you
just a note : US are generally a little retarded with MT (:-D) so I don't think they could live with such a picky one :p
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Thanks Arnaud, I'd be interested to know. By the way my seat brackets arrived today, cheers s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "SteveM"Gav I must admit I noticed this when Patrick took me out in your car and to be honest it did worry me a little. Perhaps Patrick can let us know if they intend to develop it further? For me even small niggles like this could put me off s:( :( s:( Does anyone know if the guys in the US have this problem with the Little Rocket shaft?
As far as we can work out, this a gearshift mechanism issue - not a gearbox issue. I think in a Celica you have to press the gear lever down to be able to select reverse gear? Obviously this part of the mechanism doesn't exist in the five speed shift selector. Most likely fitting the Roadster six speed gearshift mechanism would sort it out, but at what cost from Toyota! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Patrick
if it helps we fitted the TRD 6 speed short shifter from teh celica to Adams 2zz, and considered it an upgrade in teh process
I should imagine there are few 6 speed shifters around from Roadster owners who've fitted the TRD shifter? I'm sure someone would be prepared to sell one? Otherwise like Mark says fitting the TRD unit would be a good idea and be an upgrade at the same time.
Is anyone still in contact with Adam to check if he had this problem with/or without the TRD shifter?
Patrick any news on prices yet, or on power figures from Gavs car on the dyno at Thor?
Quote from: "SteveM"Patrick any news on prices yet, or on power figures from Gavs car on the dyno at Thor?
I'm not sure if I can discuss prices on here, since we're not yet affiliated. You can find them here though:
http://www.imoc.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=480256#480256
I'll let Gavin post up his dyno figures when he's ready!
Best regards,
Patrick Mortell
Rogue Motorsport Ltd
01676 530222
Patrick,
Since they are teh ones asking I think you can go ahead and answer :-) :-) :-)
If your intersted in Affiliate status, drop me a PM and we can discuss
Mark.
Quote from: "markiii"Since they are the ones asking I think you can go ahead and answer :-) :-) :-)
Thanks, I'm not sure how your affiliate scheme works!
Rogue Motorsport now offer a drive-in-drive-out upgrade service for MR2 Roadster owners using the Toyota 2ZZGE engine found in the Celica 190 and latest Lotus Elise and Exige models. This engine delivers ~188bhp (190PS) and revs all the way to 8,300rpm!
You will need to supply the following parts:
Toyota 2ZZGE engine from a Celica 190
Toyota 2ZZGE passenger side engine mount
2ZZGE ECU
If using a Toyota ECU, you will need to supply the matching transponder pickup, ecu and coded key - we recommend using an Apexi PowerFC.
All of the above can be sourced for you by us.
The following items will be re-used from your 1ZZFE:
Engine Wiring Loom
Exhaust Manifold
We ask that you leave your car with us for one week. Total cost for a drive-in-drive-out service including all fluids, consumables and modifications is £1399.99 inclusive of VAT.
If you supply a Celica 6 speed gearbox at the same time we will modify and install it for an extra £100.00 inclusive of parts and labour.
Quote from: "markiii"If you're intersted in Affiliate status, drop me a PM and we can discuss
I believe Lyn from Rogue has already PM'd PhilsterD.
Quote from: "Rogue"I believe Lyn from Rogue has already PM'd PhilsterD.
cool I'll have a chat with Phil
yes recieved I will put together a reply but I have to pop out in a mo
Patrick does the price include setting up/mapping if using an Apexi PowerFC?
s:? :? s:? " flippin eck" guys...the more i read the more confused i get....i just cannot get over your imagination,brain power and lust for bhp.(and i thought i was a petrol head)...after silverstone last week and being treated to a blap out in Stu's motor i was convinced TURBO....now this conversion....!!!! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
wot next..........!!!!!
By the way any idea for the price of a second hand 2zz and celica 6 speed gear box s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
There's an engine on ebay at the moment for £1200...
m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-CELICA-VVT ... dZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-CELICA-VVTL-I-ENGINE-2ZZ-GE_W0QQitemZ170029098260QQihZ007QQcategoryZ10428QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem) m
is that price include them sourcing an engine as well as fitting, or is the cost of the engine extra.
also if your 1zz is in good nick, what kind of price do you recon it will sell for to supplement this little idea.
that price is ball tinglingly tempting!
I would be assuming that doesb''t include teh new engine and box
just something else to think about.
If going for teh Jspec Engine or PFC you loose your immobilsor and if going for a Jspec gearbox you have no LSD
Quote from: "markiii"if it helps we fitted the TRD 6 speed short shifter from the celica to Adams 2zz, and considered it an upgrade in the process
I have my future TRD 6spd short shift under my desk, and I can affirm there's absolutly no "locking" mecanism on it.
We have to search elsewhere s:-( :-( s:-(
Time to ask the SpyderChat guys I reckon.
Quote from: "markiii"Gav, there is porecious little info on the crank swap.
it is often refured to as a 3zz engine, thoug be carefull as I beleive there an actual toyota engine with that designation as well.
happy to help as far as I can but I think there is liekly to be more knowledge on this one on SC
Here's a thread about the "3ZZ-GE":
m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19622 (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19622) m
Quote from: "Tem"Here's a thread about the "3ZZ-GE":
m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19622 (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19622) m
there are loads of 3ZZGE threads on newcelica.org too
also a good kit, half cheaper than Trial's one, is MWR
hmm now to find the neccessary bits for the conversion. Adam is a possibility however from what diemond says it worrys me a little bit.
Wonder if it would be ok to pop down and see an engine working before buying?
not going to get into teh Adam/Diemeond issues, but he's alweays been a stand up guys with me.
best bet is go see him in person then yiou know exactly what your getting
I've had about 5 deliveries from Adam since I bought the latest 'two' and never had a problem. Found him to be a stand up guy.
everyones experience can be different of course
re dyno sheets, i've no objection to rogue putting them up
but apparently there was confusion over the correct gear to do the power run in; i'm told the result is a nice looking curve, but the numbers are worse than standard, which is not reflected in the performance.
for the benefit of rogue another run would be advisable.
gearchange- i'm getting used to the first/reverse situation; i just take a bit more care when in traffic, as any other time you can hear the syncros meshing when reverse engages.
however it's quite easy to "lose" second when going all the way down the box. i think this is affected by the gap where reverse used to be, and again, is getting easier. but there's no doubt the change could be a little slicker.
gav
maybe bein a bit dim... but i'm still a bit of a noob.
will the 6 speed box from an '03 car work ok with this engine? or is the celica box diffrent, and therefore a better choice?
it's all about teh ratios
6 speed roadster box, is just teh same as teh 5 speed with an overdrive
that's a fair question, and i don't know the answer
what do people think about the power fc being able to adjust to the removal of the exhaust bung?
will it need a remap?
gav
need? no
benefit? probably
Quote from: "markiii"it's all about the ratios
6 speed roadster box, is just the same as the 5 speed with an overdrive
and a bigger final drive ratio ?
final drive is teh same I beleive
between roadster boxes that is
As I'm considering going 2zz myself I've been looking for an engine and today have been offered a 2zz engine and 6 speed box both from the same Celica with 7000 miles on them for £1900. For another £150 they will supply the loom and ECU.
What's does anyone think about the price? Is it reasonable or would I be paying too much?
Also if I decide not to have it does anyone else want pointing in the right direction!
it's a good price if it's a certified mileage and that you have a 6 month waranty
take the ecu, but you don't need the loom
check if the engine has some good ancilaries :
flywheel not too rusted, plugs, coils, damaged oil pan, etc
Just wondering if gavman or Rogue fancied posting the dyno plot ?
Would be interesting to see it.
sorry, chaps
i'll get on the case for a dyno plot
one issue
tyres now last 1 month
gav
ps rod says 1bar @3000rpm on the gtr
does that prove me right or wrong?
can't remember
all i know is last week i went out in it for the first time,
and it almost tore my head off, so it all seems a bit academic now
think i might've overdone it....and she's not mapped yet s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:shock: :shock: s:shock: :
How are you getting on with the reverse/first gear issue Gav? Is it something you just get used to or do you still feel it would merit a bit of development?
I've been speaking to LittleRocket on SC and he thinks the has the answer and would like to test it out. I think it involves swapping some selector parts (a spring & cover?) from the 6 speed Roadster box onto the Celica box. The problem is he's having trouble identifying the part numbers he needs to order as the 6 speed Roadster was never offered for sale in the USA. I've tried to locate an exploded diagram of the Roadster box with part numbers for him but so far I've had no joy finding one s:( :( s:(
pop to your local MrT and ask them to print you one out :-) :-) :-)
Quote from: "markiii"pop to your local MrT and ask them to print you one out :-) :-) :-)
Yeh I've thought about that Mark but unfortunately my local MrT (Listers in Coventry) aren't the most switched on or the most helpfull s:x :x s:x
ah the joys of coventry,
i used to live up there,
i'll see what i can do at mine as lookers of chelmsford are very helpful.
cant promise anything as its a bit of a trek for me to get there,
Quote from: "SteveM"How are you getting on with the reverse/first gear issue Gav? Is it something you just get used to or do you still feel it would merit a bit of development?
I've been speaking to LittleRocket on SC and he thinks the has the answer and would like to test it out. I think it involves swapping some selector parts (a spring & cover?) from the 6 speed Roadster box onto the Celica box. The problem is he's having trouble identifying the part numbers he needs to order as the 6 speed Roadster was never offered for sale in the USA. I've tried to locate an exploded diagram of the Roadster box with part numbers for him but so far I've had no joy finding one s:( :( s:(
hey steve,
i feel further development would be in order
i have got used to it, but by this i mean i now select first and slip the clutch a little to confirm selection, before the traffic lights change.
this does make it a little harder to get the drop on people though, as you've just woken them up/ distracted them from their phone call
plus i now do what i used to criticise my girlfriend for, i.e. sit at the lights with my foot on the clutch and the car in first s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Quote from: "gavman"plus i now do what i used to criticise my girlfriend for, i.e. sit at the lights with my foot on the clutch and the car in first s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
My 2 driving instructors (one went off to play darts professionally!!) told me that this is how you should sit at lights anyway. First gear, clutch down, handbreak on.
Quote from: "rtbiscuit"ah the joys of coventry,
i used to live up there,
So did I! 1953 - 1972.
Long live Jimmy Hill s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "rtbiscuit"ah the joys of coventry,
i used to live up there,
i'll see what i can do at mine as lookers of chelmsford are very helpful.
cant promise anything as its a bit of a trek for me to get there,
Cheers, many thanks for the offer s:D :D s:D Don't make a special trip though but if you could ask next time you're there that would be great!
Quote from: "northernalex"Quote from: "gavman"plus i now do what i used to criticise my girlfriend for, i.e. sit at the lights with my foot on the clutch and the car in first s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
My 2 driving instructors (one went off to play darts professionally!!) told me that this is how you should sit at lights anyway. First gear, clutch down, handbreak on.
you're joking?
is that true?
Sure, if you'd like to:
a) Kill your release bearing in record time
b) Crash into any car in front of you should you be hit from behind (natural reaction will be to lift off the clutch, and you'll lurch forward/stall)
that's what i thought...
can't say i'd be happy relying on my handbrake to stop me if my foot slipped
and
try doing that with an HKS clutch in traffic
you'd end up walking in circles
as you'd totally overdevelop your left leg!
i was taught as i presume most on here were stop handbreak neutral ...
OR: (filcee method(c)(tm))
Right foot on brake, wait for lights to change, apply handbrake (holding the button in), apply throttle & let go of handbrake. SMT rules! s:-D :-D s:-D
Must learn to left-foot brake though s:-? :-? s:-? s:-P :-P s:-P
easy when you've got no clutch
Quote from: "aaronjb"Sure, if you'd like to:
a) Kill your release bearing in record time
b) Crash into any car in front of you should you be hit from behind (natural reaction will be to lift off the clutch, and you'll lurch forward/stall)
a) not sure what one of them is - just had a look at cluch design and .. yes fair point.
b) not if you leave enough distance.
If you take your foot off the clutch (which i do if i'm going to be there longer than say 10 -20 seconds) then you have three movements to make so you slow up all the traffic behind you.
Maybe the AA driving school needs re-teaching??
Hey i dont know which is the "correct" way to do things, just how I was taught and i know the reasons for going both ways, and both are valid reasons.
Edit: had a look at a few motoring sites and the first one i saw claimed you should take your foot off the clutch, highway code has no mention of it.
i must admit, i do the same i only ever use the handbrake at the start and end of a journey,
first to get moving, and at the end when i park.
i have always driven with my foot on the clutch, but i also sit with my foot on the brake sat in first.
and as far as release bearings go, its no different from pulling away normally.
i drive tractors over the summer, and always use the clutch,
the main factor is clutch control. yes you will damage the release bearing if you puty loads of power on and then lift the clutch really quick.
plus a hand brake wont stop you being pushed into the car infront,
me and the rugby lads can push cars out of parking spaces with the handbrakes on.
its all personal preference.
my driving instructor taught me the other way,
stop, handbrake, neutral, foot off pedal.
but if you do that you are suseptable to oncoming crash issues, you would never be able to get in gear and move quick enough.
swings and round abouts as far as i'm concerned
do what makes you happy!
Quote from: "rtbiscuit"me and the rugby lads can push cars out of parking spaces with the handbrakes on.
<<<Slight topic drift for 1 sec>>>Another rugby player on the forum s8) 8) s8)
That driving instructor gave you some bum info; no wonder all his students fail s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Every time I stop at lights behind someone who has left their foot on the brakes (the majority nowadays), I want to whack my main beam on to see how they like being blinded by an inconsiderate %&*$&*.
Makes me smile sometimes actually, they're sat there for maybe 60 seconds on level ground with their foot on the brake. WHY??? What's wrong with the handbrake???
hand brake or foot brake you get red lights come on!
Quote from: "rtbiscuit"hand brake or foot brake you get red lights come on!
Nah !
Just footbrake
Edit
Or did you mean the dash red light
Quote from: "Peter Wright"Quote from: "rtbiscuit"hand brake or foot brake you get red lights come on!
Nah !
Just footbrake
Edit
Or did you mean the dash red light
No I think he was referring to the rear brake lights and as you said they only come on if you press the foot brake as they are connected via a switch on it.
i'm confused now,
i thought Jez gets annoyed by people in front who sit with the foot on the brake presumably because you get blinded by the brake light.
my thoughts were that if you put the handbrake on, do you not get lights at the rear come on as well.
i could be wrong.
it is early, just got up, and sat in my dressing gown typing nonsense
Without wishing to offend rtbiscuit (Mr biscuit - start using your handbrake in a queue and you will be saved come the revolution -- your brake lights only come on when you put your foot brake on guv) .... Anyway, I tend to divide the population into two camps - those who are considerate of others (good people) and those who don't give a damn about anything or anyone around them (bad people).
Fortunately Its easy to spot these two types of people.
Simply drive on the M25 in rush hour on a dark rainy evening. When you join the inevitable stationary queue - the good people use their handbrake, the bad people sit with their foot on the foot brake whilst you quietly suffer the glare from their brake lights. It takes but a a couple of seconds of thought and effort to be good, but no, sadly 90%+ are bad.
Simplistic, I know - and yes, I must be getting old (and grumpy) but it does make me feel less than charitable about most of my fellow human beings!
i must admit, when it comes to traffic jams i am slightly different,
i do tend to just sit there, no brake at all.
i f traffic doesnt move for more than 5-10 min, i actually put the handbrake on and turn the engine off.
does that make me a fence sitter, part good part bad.
and don't worry i haven't taken offence, i know i have some bad driving habits.
for instance i only indicate on motorways if there are 2 cars in front and trafic behind, s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
This has turned into a very interesting thread to me. If I follow correctly, many of you put your gearbox in neutral and apply the handbrake at a traffic light, correct?
Heath, you're recently back from the US, did you see anyone exhibit this behavior? I would think it very rare here.
And how would an automatic gearbox car be employed - same? This would cause higher wear rates -and the repair is significantly more expensive than replacing a release bearing in a manual gearbox car.
I've driven in the UK and several other European countries and must admit I really never noticed. My last trip was in/around Oslo, and I wonder if the Norwegians were able to identify me as a US tourist without me even opening my mouth.
BTW, when I went through a driving school in the US, back in 1966, I was told the handbrake made it handy to start on a hill without any roll-back (slip the clutch a little), but that was the only use other than while parked - in fact they are typically either called parking or emergency brakes in the US.
WTF has this got to do with 2ZZ engine swaps?
Quote from: "SteveJ"WTF has this got to do with 2ZZ engine swaps?
Well its quite obvious really s:roll: :roll: s:roll: Its gone off topic, due to a conversation about the 6 speed gearbox started by gavman and trouble with placement of the gears when pulling off of traffic lights, other people have commented on that as well. Consider our wrists slapped everyone and back on topic please
Quote from: "rtbiscuit"i'm confused now,
i thought Jez gets annoyed by people in front who sit with the foot on the brake presumably because you get blinded by the brake light.
my thoughts were that if you put the handbrake on, do you not get lights at the rear come on as well.
i could be wrong.
it is early, just got up, and sat in my dressing gown typing nonsense
12.45pm still in your dressing gown??!!
s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
how are you finding this swap mate now that its been a few months?
did you ever get that dyno figure/graph?
[MOD]This isn't the place to take out personal grievances, and there is a place for Feedback ... but i've left it here as Gavman has aired some problems, and Patrick has succinclty responded. This thread is about 2ZZ conversions not a place to rant. Unnecesary continuation of the rant has been removed to maintain some kind of flow.. It would seem that things can go wrong, but should b e dealt with in a timely manner rather than laying the blame at someone elses door. [/MOD]
.[MOD] Topic temporarily locked due to recent posts. We are discussing the matter and will sort thread accordingly as soon as we can
[MOD] EDIT
The feedback nature posts from Gavman and reply by Rogue are now in buyer and seller feedback on the thread below:
l viewtopic.php?f=41&t=30242 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=30242) l
anyone wishing to view that feedback can go to that thread to read what has been posted. Other posts have been removed and no further posts of this nature will be permitted on this thread and the feedback thread has one post each from both customer and supplier. No further posts allowed there either.
This has been discussed with committe and mods and the decision is final.
Quote from: "Rogue"Quote from: "SteveM"Patrick any news on prices yet, or on power figures from Gavs car on the dyno at Thor?
I'll let Gavin post up his dyno figures when he's ready!
Rogue Motorsport Ltd
for the record, the reason these were never posted was patrick failed to provide them to me, despite numerous requests
[MOD]Ok it seems sensible discussion has ended, feedback has been supplied by Gav and Rogue have responded. It is obvious that a grudge remains and the forum is not the place to continually attack another member. Topic locked, which is a shame as it is interesting to see the approach from a technical point of view. [/MOD]