some of you must already be equiped but for the others looking for a cheap way to get rid of the "cats" without getting their hands dirty, this seems the way to go.
I received mine today, here are some pics...
oh, by the way: I paid 275USD delivered to my door s8) 8) s8)
(http://www.it-deal.fr/dreambackup/temp/IMG_0949B.jpg)
(http://www.it-deal.fr/dreambackup/temp/IMG_0943.jpg)
(http://www.it-deal.fr/dreambackup/temp/IMG_0947.jpg)
(http://www.it-deal.fr/dreambackup/temp/IMG_0948.jpg)
(http://www.it-deal.fr/dreambackup/temp/IMG_0951.jpg)
(http://www.it-deal.fr/dreambackup/temp/IMG_0954.jpg)
(http://www.it-deal.fr/dreambackup/temp/IMG_0955.jpg)
(http://www.it-deal.fr/dreambackup/temp/IMG_0957.jpg)
looks really nice,
am torn at the moment do i either go for the che manifold, or do i go for the PPE manifold and hi flow cat,
decisions, decisions!
not in a position for next 2 months, just bought 4 new tyres, and have a PPE CAI on group buy that when it goes through i have to pay for.
any recommendations would be most welcome,
Che Header or PPE header
Quote from: "rtbiscuit"and have a PPE CAI on group buy that when it goes through i have to pay for.
Yeah if we could get another 2 people interested!! s:) :) s:) s:( :( s:(
Dreambackup, you always seem to show the best images on here, it looks fab. Are you a professional photographer at all? s:) :) s:) Or just a good eye s:) :) s:) ?
no, no, not a pro (and if you could / wanted to check the dates / time on the pics, you'd see it took me less than 3 minutes to shoot!!!).
I'm glad you like my pics anyway!
off topic but who cares: you'll love the PPE CAI s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
i'm sure i will, and i really want it, just can't work out why we cant get 2 more people.
has everybody already got one, or what.
any way back on topic,
should i get CHE or PPE
(always me me me!)
PPE for noise and power, che for safety and maybe a smidgen of power
could you quantify that please Mark? (assuming you're talking manifolds?)
If I go turbo then i have a manifold sorted, but if I was to go with the SC route then I would be looking for a replacement manifold, and as you know i'm not up to date with latest offerings
how much is the PPE again without the cat.
cant make my mind up if its worth doing both. while its in pieces change both!
yes, I'd like to add the PPE is 400$ where the Che is 220$...
the PPE needs O² sensor modification and is a 4 to 1.
Che's header is plug and play, you even keep the heat shield. you just won't get the 8whp claimed by PPE... even if a slight gain can be expected...
have you fitted your CHE yet, easy job or not
no I received it this afternoon...
but I'll let you know when it's in the car s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
be interested if you notice improvements.
don't want to gut the pre cats, i think that will effect the power of the car giving it a hollow chamber to gust into.
and i know the pros and cons of both, PPE flex joint and 4 into 1 and o2 sensor stuff. price
che gasket issues, not sure on power gains.
i hate these decisions, cos i know how long i mull things over for. i know i want to up the power of the vehicle, but don't really want to pay out turbo prices. but then should i save the pennies and turbo AHHHHHHHHHH!
no must not turbo, want to stay N/A
2ZZ then s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
i'd be interested to see what they come out price wise form that company that are doing one at the mo.
just feel its a waste of my current engine only having 25000 on the clock.
like to be taken out in a 2zz conversion, want to know what the difference is (how the butt dyno reads)
and would my h&S still be compatible with it?
I installed the che header on my car, was pretty easy swap out, all bolts and studs needed are included, but its reccomended you get a new main gasket, and lots of liquid wrench to loosen up everything (soaked mine every 2 hours for a day and a half). On SpyderChat theres a pre/post dyno of just gutted cats that showed about 3-4 hp increase, I can guess that the Che header might net you an extra one or 2 beacuse it dosent have the open empty space and would flow smoother, even if not as smooth as the equal length ppe.
Quote from: "perry190"could you quantify that please Mark? (assuming you're talking manifolds?)
If I go turbo then i have a manifold sorted, but if I was to go with the SC route then I would be looking for a replacement manifold, and as you know i'm not up to date with latest offerings
I was refering to the question, PPE CAI or Che Manifold
however if your looking at PPE ro Che manifold with a supercharger, Web3.0 on SC got very good results with teh PPE
me thinks the che is the more sensible option! and price.
could always go hi flow cat after!
intrested to see what dreambackup thinks of the noise of his car with ppe CAI and che manifold. if it makes a diff or not.
i think it will sound sweet on my car with my twin h&S and PPE CAI, and a new manifold.
my exhaust is good, but feel it still doesn't sound sporty enough!
Hi Guy's
Interesting thread, I've got a che fitted, experienced all the problems with the gasket, rattling heat shields, distorted flange faces to name a few.
My conclusion is you pay your money and take your chance, I've considered the PPE route but don't like the joint, Hayward & Scott looks good but has no heat shield, so the solution I'm looking at is a 4 into 2 (equal lenghts) in 2mm 304 ss made by Zero Exhaust, fitted with a top mounted heat sheild, it will also have oversized pipes to stop the resonance wave going back into the head - Che doesn't do this and I'm not sure about the H&S and PPE - I stand to corrected of course.
This will be a direct replacement as is the H & S and Che are, so you can either retain the main cat or remove it. I'm thinking I might run de-catted once SP have sorted the sensor issue out.
As for the costs I've been quoted £425 + vat for a group buy of 6, ok you will need to mod the O2 sensors but that's just soldering.
As I said you pays your money, so here's another alternative with some race proven experience included.
see for that kind of money o'd rather get the PPE and hi flow ccat that they do, and its a direct replacement. plus i'v not heard any have any problems with the ppe.
heat sheild wise i thought the ppe could have the original put back in place.
and would some one mind telling me what difference their is between 4-1 and 4-2 manifolds.
the flex joint on the PPE shouldn't cause any problems as long as its not put under loads of tension or compression.
Quote from: "rtbiscuit"see for that kind of money o'd rather get the PPE and hi flow ccat that they do, and its a direct replacement. plus i'v not heard any have any problems with the ppe.
heat sheild wise i thought the ppe could have the original put back in place.
and would some one mind telling me what difference their is between 4-1 and 4-2 manifolds.
the flex joint on the PPE shouldn't cause any problems as long as its not put under loads of tension or compression.
The joint prep I think is a problem if you use your existing cat.
4 into 2 is 4 pipes merging into two, which will then mate up to the original cat, 4 into 1 is the same except they merge into one pipe.
I don't think the PPE have brackets for heat shields
i knew what it meant pipe wise as in how many pipes and what they go into.
i was wondering if their is any mechanical difference, does it affect the power curve, improve torque etc.
i think if cutting the cat is involved your trying to persuade me to go for ppe with Cat.
lucky mrs passion isn't reading, he seems to know when my wallet needs lightening, not bought anything yet, but he keeps flashing new shiney things up, the temptation is getting harder to resist.
so to make myself feel better i just bought a jdm hood badge from flea bay to cheer myself up.
am still waiting for my dev keyhole covers, and by club sticker, but i only ordered it the other day.
am looking forward to adding new bits. it gets addictive s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Anybody know how much the insurance hike is, I got stung £38 for about 5 months remaining policy and thats without any real power gain. s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
so have you fitted it yet, whats it like,
i have decided to get one, just got to save up, something for the new year.
especially as i'm getting paranoid about the precats, think i might even start loosing sleep over it.
threads keep poping up, that worry me. i know its a rare occurance, but i'm papranoid i'm next. s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
There are 12 users of the Che header in France
after reading lots of previous threads on the subject of replacement manifolds, it would seem that the che has the advantage of the dual o2 ports, but there are some reported operational problems (fgrob i think..)
How widespread are these problems? could it be a bad design, and therefore count against the che in comparison to others or is it possible that the reported problems are one offs?
Diemond - do you sell both ppe and che? do you have any insight about their reliability and whether problems are widespread?
Quote from: "Chris"after reading lots of previous threads on the subject of replacement manifolds, it would seem that the che has the advantage of the dual o2 ports, but there are some reported operational problems (fgrob i think..)
How widespread are these problems? could it be a bad design, and therefore count against the che in comparison to others or is it possible that the reported problems are one offs?
Diemond - do you sell both ppe and che? do you have any insight about their reliability and whether problems are widespread?
The only problem we met on Che manifolds was on *one of them* an alignment problem for the heatshield bolts, that's all
However, as I always explain, Che isn't a performance manifold.
It's clearly not flow optimized, with medium welding and angles, it's only point is to remove your precat easily and for a very low price
If you want power, go PPE, without a doubt !
Quote from: "dieamond"Quote from: "Chris"after reading lots of previous threads on the subject of replacement manifolds, it would seem that the che has the advantage of the dual o2 ports, but there are some reported operational problems (fgrob i think..)
How widespread are these problems? could it be a bad design, and therefore count against the che in comparison to others or is it possible that the reported problems are one offs?
Diemond - do you sell both ppe and che? do you have any insight about their reliability and whether problems are widespread?
The only problem we met on Che manifolds was on *one of them* an alignment problem for the heatshield bolts, that's all
However, as I always explain, Che isn't a performance manifold.
It's clearly not flow optimized, with medium welding and angles, it's only point is to remove your precat easily and for a very low price
If you want power, go PPE, without a doubt !
Well guys after Saturday you could argue the point about performance, this was a big surprize to me, both mine and leggy's figures clearly indicates that the che will help performance. The only difference between mine and Leggy's is I've not got the Markiii pipe fitted yet. We both have a custom exhaust, panel filter and the che.
Performance wise, FGRob - 147.3 BHP
128 LB FT
Leggy - 146.6 I think
132 LB FT
Now that seems OK but when you compare that to a couple of the 2's which had the pre-cats removed plus chipped, the max I saw was 145BHP not sure about the torque.
On the che yes you pay for what you get, I'm removing mine and having a purpose made manifold, see my post in group buy. Then I'm fitting the SP de-cat pipe along with a Apexi Power FC unit, if I can get up to 160BHP and a significant increase in torque, I will be very happy.
Rob
that's good news. mine is being prepared with lots of WD40 s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
"should" be done by the end of the week s:!: :!: s:!: s:!: :!: s:!: s:!: :!: s:!:
how can you call 2hp over a stock gutted cat a performance improvement ? s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Quote from: "dieamond"how can you call 2hp over a stock gutted cat a performance improvement ? s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Quote from: "FGRob"Now that seems OK but when you compare that to a couple of the 2's which had the pre-cats removed plus chipped, the max I saw was 145BHP not sure about the torque.Rob
Quote from: "mr-s_turbo"Quote from: "dieamond"how can you call 2hp over a stock gutted cat a performance improvement ? s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Quote from: "FGRob"Now that seems OK but when you compare that to a couple of the 2's which had the pre-cats removed plus chipped, the max I saw was 145BHP not sure about the torque.Rob
s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Quote from: "dieamond"Quote from: "mr-s_turbo"Quote from: "dieamond"how can you call 2hp over a stock gutted cat a performance improvement ? s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Quote from: "FGRob"Now that seems OK but when you compare that to a couple of the 2's which had the pre-cats removed plus chipped, the max I saw was 145BHP not sure about the torque.Rob
s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Or should I say "french fries" s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
If you look at the SP exhaust thread you will get an idea of the stock system outputs, 118FTLBs Torque and 138BHP which were run on the same Dyno.
this conversations keep switching my mind.
i'm pretty sure i'm going for the CHE, as its a direct swap, and no modding of the o2. it also means at a later date i can put a universal hi flow cat in to free up a bit more.
although the PPE sounds tempting, but its such a large outlay straight away.
and i just want those pesky precats out.
I do not forsee any major improvement over stock header with Che's. Perhaps Che's might look better in photos, but I highly suspect the looks has nothing to do with its performance. The bottleneck in our 2 is the precats, and the main cat. You need to upgrade them first in order to see noticeable difference in any header used.
Power/cost wise I would rather gut the pre cats and retain stock header. The precats are there to pass the 2 as ULEV and nothing else. If performance is what you are after, there's no reason not to gut them. Getting Che's with precat on will not make any performance difference with stock pre and main cat in place, at least not until we see some dyno numbers.
Quote from: "simontan75"I do not forsee any major improvement over stock header with Che's. Perhaps Che's might look better in photos, but I highly suspect the looks has nothing to do with its performance. The bottleneck in our 2 is the precats, and the main cat. You need to upgrade them first in order to see noticeable difference in any header used.
Getting Che's with precat on will not make any performance difference with stock pre and main cat in place, at least not until we see some dyno numbers.
I think you're confusing something. Che's header removes the precats.
And unlike gutting them, it doesn't leave two empty chambers in the header to mess up the flow.
My 2 pence worth:
I was very much leaning towards a PPE manifold earlier this year - proven power gains etc etc.
After much reading it became clear there are some pretty fundemental flaws - only one 02 sensor (another list of problems here), CEL problems, welds cracking, no effective bracing.
Following the dynoday wew had some interesting results:
My car : UNICHIP (custom map), TRD Filter, Markiii duct, NO PRECATS, TTE exhaust
145bhp , 130 1b/ft torque
Heaths' car also with very similar mods had more or less the same figures (maybe more torque?)
The guys running che headers were getting bhp figures of 147,148bhp and that was just with a panel filter , no UNICHIP.
Admittedly they showed less improvement in torque ( a few lb/ft)
When you consider a stock car ran 133bhp on the day - that's a 14bhp gain for a manifold and filter which together cost less than £250!!
Quote from: "simontan75"I do not forsee any major improvement over stock header with Che's. Perhaps Che's might look better in photos, but I highly suspect the looks has nothing to do with its performance. The bottleneck in our 2 is the precats, and the main cat. You need to upgrade them first in order to see noticeable difference in any header used.
Power/cost wise I would rather gut the pre cats and retain stock header. The precats are there to pass the 2 as ULEV and nothing else. If performance is what you are after, there's no reason not to gut them. Getting Che's with precat on will not make any performance difference with stock pre and main cat in place, at least not until we see some dyno numbers.
I'm not sure which thread you have been reading, but you need to revisit what has been said above, the che does remove the pre-cats, it also gives a smoother flow path, remember the che is a rip off of the TRD header s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Also the figures stated are actual Dyno figures so I'm not sure what you mean in your last statement.
The che does the job which I think the above proves, the next stage for me is to refine the header even more, but that's my decision and if others choice to follow so be it.
Just to confirm what my set up is:
Che header
Blueflame custom twin exhaust
K&N panel filter
Total cost £600
Plus I was running on 99 Ron fuel.
Thanks
Rob
Sorry for not knowing the whole fact before I post! s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: Yes, without the two empty chambers, the airflow will certainly be better!
Quote from: "simontan75"Sorry for not knowing the whole fact before I post! s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: Yes, without the two empty chambers, the airflow will certainly be better!
No problems my friend s:D :D s:D s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
And didn't your car post something like 147bhp with that setup Rob?
Quote from: "simonp"And didn't your car post something like 147bhp with that setup Rob?
Yep is was 147.3 s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Just for comparison my now totally stock 2 posted 133bhp so a good improvement.
And my stock set up made 138.2bhp unless the tte exhaust gave me 5bhp, which I thought it wasn't supposed to do.
Phil
Quote from: "evileye_xc"And my stock set up made 138.2bhp unless the tte exhaust gave me 5bhp, which I thought it wasn't supposed to do.
Phil
Perhaps it was the new wheels...I am sure we could think of a good enough reason why....
Rolling radius, weight, C of G, looks s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Maybe its the mileage, mines now on 30K
Quote from: "FGRob"Quote from: "dieamond"Quote from: "Chris"after reading lots of previous threads on the subject of replacement manifolds, it would seem that the che has the advantage of the dual o2 ports, but there are some reported operational problems (fgrob i think..)
How widespread are these problems? could it be a bad design, and therefore count against the che in comparison to others or is it possible that the reported problems are one offs?
Diemond - do you sell both ppe and che? do you have any insight about their reliability and whether problems are widespread?
The only problem we met on Che manifolds was on *one of them* an alignment problem for the heatshield bolts, that's all
However, as I always explain, Che isn't a performance manifold.
It's clearly not flow optimized, with medium welding and angles, it's only point is to remove your precat easily and for a very low price
If you want power, go PPE, without a doubt !
Well guys after Saturday you could argue the point about performance, this was a big surprize to me, both mine and leggy's figures clearly indicates that the che will help performance. The only difference between mine and Leggy's is I've not got the Markiii pipe fitted yet. We both have a custom exhaust, panel filter and the che.
Performance wise, FGRob - 147.3 BHP
128 LB FT
Leggy - 146.6 I think
132 LB FT
Now that seems OK but when you compare that to a couple of the 2's which had the pre-cats removed plus chipped, the max I saw was 145BHP not sure about the torque.
On the che yes you pay for what you get, I'm removing mine and having a purpose made manifold, see my post in group buy. Then I'm fitting the SP de-cat pipe along with a Apexi Power FC unit, if I can get up to 160BHP and a significant increase in torque, I will be very happy.
Rob
I have the Unichip along with TRD panel filter, gutted precats, H&S inlet and twin exhaust. The HP was 144.5 but the torque was a lot higher that yours at 144 Lb ft. This is the main advantage of the Unichip; much improved torque s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Heath
What was your torque line like on the graph, although I was only 128, it ran from 2500 RPM through 6300RPM in a straight line, it would have been nice to see someone have the Che with a Unichip dyno'd.
I've just priced up the Power FC £395 from Japan Thor want £350 for fitting and mapping, how much is the unichip fitted?
Thanks
Rob
Those are good figures Heath, must be the US map that makes a difference. When you see that sort of torque from na, it makes a lot of sense to go for a Unichip. Mine always felt like it was well up on torque from stock.
Quote from: "FGRob"Heath
What was your torque line like on the graph, although I was only 128, it ran from 2500 RPM through 6300RPM in a straight line, it would have been nice to see someone have the Che with a Unichip dyno'd.
I've just priced up the Power FC £395 from Japan Thor want £350 for fitting and mapping, how much is the unichip fitted?
Thanks
Rob
I'm sure you can fit the power FC youself (it just plugs in if i'm correct) there are apparantly lots of maps out there on spyderchat, I've been told Tem is a bit of a god with the power fc.
I'm not sure Alex, when I spoke to Thor they were unsure as the majority of the cars they've mapped were MRS not UK spec, but then again you are replacing the ECU completely so I suppose it's not a problem, the only area that they would need to check is the plug to ensure they are compatable.
It reccommends the mapping to be done once fitted to the car, to be honest I would prefer to see what it's doing on a rolling road and have it set-up to suit the fuel etc.
Quote from: "FGRob"Heath
What was your torque line like on the graph, although I was only 128, it ran from 2500 RPM through 6300RPM in a straight line, it would have been nice to see someone have the Che with a Unichip dyno'd.
I've just priced up the Power FC £395 from Japan Thor want £350 for fitting and mapping, how much is the unichip fitted?
Thanks
Rob
I have looked at the map and the strange thing is the torque looks to run between 125 and 130 but on the day it was put down as 144 s:? :? s:? It is nye on a straight line from 2500rpm but dips slightly @ around 5500rpm. Maybe it was on the other map as I had two runs on both but only one graph printed. Unsure which map has the higher torque now. Mark does your data show this s:?: :?: s:?:
Heath
The graph you have is the best you did on that day, once it peaks it prints off your best result. I think they ran mine about 4 / 5 times before they printed the final graph.
The photo of the graph that Rich took (Dyno thread) is my first run s:oops: :oops: s:oops: Nice pic's by the way s:D :D s:D
Rob
Quote from: "FGRob"I'm not sure Alex, when I spoke to Thor they were unsure as the majority of the cars they've mapped were MRS not UK spec, but then again you are replacing the ECU completely so I suppose it's not a problem, the only area that they would need to check is the plug to ensure they are compatable.
As far as I know the plugs on the ECU are the same, even if the internals may be slightly different (the diagnostic port isn't OBD-II compliant, and it must be missing the code - and probably hardware support for - the 3rd O2 sensor on the J-spec).
But they've mapped
at least one UK spec, I'm sure (didn't Dan take his to Thor?)
Thanks Aaron for the info, let's see if Dan can confirm.
Rob
they also did mine, Seans, and Nigels, the latter with a PFC
Quote from: "markiii"they also did mine, Seans, and Nigels, the latter with a PFC
Mark
Were they UK or J spec, plus I'm only interested in the PFC.
Thanks
Rob
all UK
but teh plugs are teh same anyway
Quote from: "heathstimpson"I have looked at the map and the strange thing is the torque looks to run between 125 and 130 but on the day it was put down as 144 s:? :? s:? It is nye on a straight line from 2500rpm but dips slightly @ around 5500rpm. Maybe it was on the other map as I had two runs on both but only one graph printed. Unsure which map has the higher torque now. Mark does your data show this s:?: :?: s:?:
Interesting - My torque was 129 on the day - in a more or less continuous flat line right across the rev range until 5.5k . Given the similarity of our setups maybe someone made an error when recording your peak figure(144 does seem a lot higher)
When I had mine chipped at millways my torque was recorded at 118 stock. After chipping the curve was flatter and consistently running around 128 lb/ft.
Either way I still believe that the unichip's best gains are in midrange torque rather than peak power - this is why it is such a great mod for every day driving. The difference on the motorway is very noticeable - much more grunt from even very low down means I rarely have to change down from sixth.
BTW - Anyone know if che headers are still available as I'd like to give one a go ? Spyderchat is blocked by my firewall for some reason.
Unless you want to give me yours Rob when you change over?
Quote from: "simonp"BTW - Anyone know if che headers are still available as I'd like to give one a go ? Spyderchat is blocked by my firewall for some reason.
Unless you want to give me yours Rob when you change over?
s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
get it here:
m http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 8045759371 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8045759371) m
s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
cheers but that item is out of date and not listed by the seller anymore.
I'm emailing him to see if he has any in stock.
damn eveyone is gonna have this done before me! s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Quote from: "simonp"Quote from: "heathstimpson"I have looked at the map and the strange thing is the torque looks to run between 125 and 130 but on the day it was put down as 144 s:? :? s:? It is nye on a straight line from 2500rpm but dips slightly @ around 5500rpm. Maybe it was on the other map as I had two runs on both but only one graph printed. Unsure which map has the higher torque now. Mark does your data show this s:?: :?: s:?:
Interesting - My torque was 129 on the day - in a more or less continuous flat line right across the rev range until 5.5k . Given the similarity of our setups maybe someone made an error when recording your peak figure(144 does seem a lot higher)
I think that's probably a likely scenario, as my setup is very similar to yours and heaths (us mapped unichip, remus exhaust, standard filter and precats still in) and my torque curve (http://photos.orange.co.uk/album/4515559) is similar - flat at 125 from 2500, with a slight lump at 4500rpm before tailing off after 5500.
I suppose the only other factors that could account for the 15lb ft extra heaths made would be a) map selected (map a for me) and fuel (bog standard texaco on the day).
I think i've also come to the same conclusion that the che manifold seems to be the way forward as a cheap, quick and easy way to de-precat with the added bonus of a little extra performance but without the compromises of the other performance headers, so therefore it will be my next mod!! s8) 8) s8)
Is this the start of a che manifold group buy?
i'm in s:D :D s:D
do you think mark will invite us all round so we can have a group fitting session as well.
the next mini meet s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Yeah go on,have a GB just after i bought mine,swines s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
thats two, get the plusgas ready!
so who's going to organise this little spending fest.
you'll be pleased to know that the exchange rate is 1.92 dolors to the pound.
i think it works out delivred to your door $275 which is about £140, theres another thread somewhere and it mentions price. in fact i think its this one.
so i wonder if we have enough people if we can get it lower s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
but to be honest, thats a damn good price!
I'm in.
looking at the dyno day results I'd say there every chance of getting 10 people interested? Is anyone a trained negotiator who wishes to crack Che?
Right guys - I've just PM'd Che asking if he still has these and how much they are going to cost.
I also asked about the possibility of a group buy.
I'll keep you posted.
s:D :D s:D
a most joyful Yay!
Well guy's it's s**t or bust time, I've just ordered the SP de-cat pipe which should be ready by Xmas plus the new manifold should be finished by then as well.
Then back to WRC for a new dyno, which will either leave a big smile on my face or a big hole in my wallet s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Thanks
Rob
Quote from: "simonp"Right guys - I've just PM'd Che asking if he still has these and how much they are going to cost.
I also asked about the possibility of a group buy.
I'll keep you posted.
s:D :D s:D
woohoo and indeed woopy do!! s:D :D s:D
Cheers for that - now i've just gotta not spend the money over xmas... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
just to keep you on the edge of your seats waiting for the next Che shipping...
mine is in, the sound is great but more important is the torque gain. from stock straight to Che is a great improvement, that you are really able to feel.
my precats are like new but at least I won't have to worry about them anymore...
UPDATE
What I wrote:
Hi che,
Simon P from MR2ROC.CO.UK.
Our club recently ran a dyno shoot out event at Silverstone racetrack, England. A number of our members had your replacement spyder header/manifold fitted.
On the day these cars showed some excellent power gains. Compared to stock the che header was making around an extra 9-10bhp!
Needless to say the club was very impressed.
I now have a number of members who are interested in buying your header for their own cars.
Are you still making these? If so how much would they cost shipped to the UK. finally numbers allowing (I currently have 5 confirmed) would a group buy be negotiable?
kind regards
Simon Prowse
MR2ROC , UK.
Che's Reply
Hi Simon,
Excellent News, but currently these Headers are back order. My Next shipment should be in January 2007, FYI I will have the exhaust & Down Pipe available in next 2-3 weeks. These should be a excellent add on to to the Header, I will keep you post with update.
For the U.K. Member GB I can do $265.00 Shipped per Header.
Please e-mail me if you have any questions, Thank you !
So it looks like this will be after Christmas.
If anyone is still interested can you register your interest over in the group buy section where I'm starting a new thread.
Got my header yesterday and now have a few questions for the resident gurus.
1) I notice that on the flange where the pipes attach to the head, the openings are wider than the pipes themselves. In other words, there's a little 1-2mm edge of pipe visible around the whole circumference. I know one guy on spyderchat dremeled this down with a carbide bit. Do you think that that's really worth the trouble?
2) Related question: it's been pointed out that the second pipe has an apparently unnecessary weld about 4cm from the flange. There's definitely an edge inside the pipe that I can feel with my finger. Is this worth grinding down too, in your opinion?
3) How much of a concern is the fact that the 1st (or is it the 4th) pipe is much longer than the others? My understanding of performance headers is that you, ideally, want all 4 pipes to be the same length. Che has posted in a few places that they are the same length, but this simply isn't the case. Nor is it on the TRD header of which this is a copy.
Thanks for any info.
rather depends on what you bought it for?
but since your already decatted I assume it was purchased for performance?
so
1. probably not from the manifold alone perspective, if your chipping and mapping accordingly yes
2. yes
3. Ideally they shoul be equal length but in practice I doubt you'd notice much difference. That said Rob did with his zero manifold
Mark,
Another question: remember when we (OK, credit where credit is due: Stu is the one who donned the full body condom) gutted my precats and, in the process rounded off a manifold bolt that wouldn't budge? Obviously I'm going to have to get that off in order to put the che header on. Given my fairly obvious mechanical limitations, is there something else I should try or should I just hand the whole thing over to an exhaust shop and let them deal with it?
I reckon a 4 inch angle grinder would solve it
shame we didn't have one at teh time
Quote from: "Ernie Ball"Got my header yesterday and now have a few questions for the resident gurus.
1) I notice that on the flange where the pipes attach to the head, the openings are wider than the pipes themselves. In other words, there's a little 1-2mm edge of pipe visible around the whole circumference. I know one guy on spyderchat dremeled this down with a carbide bit. Do you think that that's really worth the trouble?
2) Related question: it's been pointed out that the second pipe has an apparently unnecessary weld about 4cm from the flange. There's definitely an edge inside the pipe that I can feel with my finger. Is this worth grinding down too, in your opinion?
3) How much of a concern is the fact that the 1st (or is it the 4th) pipe is much longer than the others? My understanding of performance headers is that you, ideally, want all 4 pipes to be the same length. Che has posted in a few places that they are the same length, but this simply isn't the case. Nor is it on the TRD header of which this is a copy.
Thanks for any info.
Mark is correct in what he's saying, if you want performance then the Che is not going to give you a great deal.
I've had the benefit of fitting the Che and to be honest it did what I wanted at the time, removed the pre-cats and gave a slight performance increase, but this was combined with a performance exhaust and a K&N panel filter.
To answer your points above:
1. Can't do a great deal as you need to increase the diameter of the whole pipe, the Zero manifold is fitted with 42mm pipe instead of the 38mm which Che uses. This allows the gases to flow a lot better.
2. The smoother inside the better, the collectors on the Zero are knife edge sharpe (this is where to two pipes come together) to help the flow of the gases - any restrictions will cause problems.
3. All the pipes should be equal, this stops un-equal flow which means when you fit a Chip or a Power FC you can get a better tuned engine.
I think Roger proved that the combination of the size of pipe and tube lengths that the Che as will work against you when you also fit a de-cat pipe, he lost 4 BHP against the previous test which had a standard cast manifold (Pre-cats removed) fitted using the same de-cat pipe from SP.
People have experienced different results over time, it's all about having ago, I think its a case of more luck than judgement s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Rob
As above and in answer to Shaun's post on the GB thread - mine also has the weld line on the 2nd pipe - only really noticable since it's been fitted.
You could smooth the inside a little if you like.
Myself I'm very happy as it is despite it's imperfections
- for £135 I've got a 6bhp gain (I've not found another product othering more bhp per pound)
Undoubtedly the Che manifold is not manufactured to the same tolerences of a custom hand crafted unit but then again it's a 1/4 of the price.
It does it's job - it gets rid of the precats, vastly improved my engine note and gave me a useful boost in power.
My power modding is now over - spending lots of money chasing those elusive NA horses is not for me - I'm happy to spend a few hundred for a reasonable gain - anything else and my next step Turbo,
Quote from: "simonp"As above and in answer to Shaun's post on the GB thread - mine also has the weld line on the 2nd pipe - only really noticable since it's been fitted.
Does this mean you are running without the top heat sheild? -If so any problems? I'd worry about the 02 sesnors leads getting toasted s:?: :?: s:?:
Quote from: "simonp"You could smooth the inside a little if you like.
Myself I'm very happy as it is despite it's imperfections
- for £135 I've got a 6bhp gain (I've not found another product othering more bhp per pound)
Undoubtedly the Che manifold is not manufactured to the same tolerences of a custom hand crafted unit but then again it's a 1/4 of the price.
It does it's job - it gets rid of the precats, vastly improved my engine note and gave me a useful boost in power.
I agree, great VFM. Just thought this weld was unneccessary - maybe its cost cutting i.e. they're using some 40mm offcuts to save on material
Yeah - I don't really know why the weld is there? Why not just use a longer pipe? ??!
My heatshield was orignally off as I am going to respray it prior to refitting. This hasn't had time to happen. The 02 sensors and their leads and all surrounding ancillaries are absolutely fine. I figured there are a lot of turbos out there that are throwing off a lot more heat than my NA and they don't melt (well not all - markiii might have something to say on that s:P :P s:P )
Refitting a heat shield is still probably a good idea - when mine was on the rolling road at full wang the che header was glowing orange! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
I think you will find that the reason for the weld is purely to do with the lengths of pipe supplied to the manufacturer, normally they come in 6 metre random lengths and with the price of stainless being so high these days, the old term "waste not want not" plays an important part when putting these manifolds together.
Rob
Quote from: "FGRob"6 metre random lengths
s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
This sounds as much Chinese as the header is s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "ShaunyF"Quote from: "FGRob"6 metre random lengths
s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
This sounds as much Chinese as the header is s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Sorry work head on s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:oops: :oops: s:oops: , basically standard pipe comes in lenghts of approximately 6 metre + , I think with the volume that Che has ordered they will use every available bit of pipe to make up any short pieces, typical of a fabrication shop. Nothing to worry about really. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Rob