As you may or may not know, Mark and myself are about to embark on a chargecooler install. I've started this thread so that we can get the communities advice and thoughts on things and problems
to start with were going to be move the stock coolant bottle, does anyone think there will be too many problems if its dropped by 1"?
Simple answer to the bottle question - Yes there will almost certainly be problems with it blowing coolant out when hot resulting in air getting drawn back in when the car is cold and the coolant has contracted s:( :( s:(
With the turbo I would like to be able to raise the bottle up but there isnt room to do it.
To start with for the more ignorant members like myself, what is a
chargecooler and what does it do
Pete
problem is i have to move it for the CC coolant bottle to go in but at best it'll be 1cm lower than stock s:? :? s:?
Without seeing what you have bought and are proposing for the install I'm not sure what to suggest, but given that the coolant always drops to the minimum mark after a while no matter how often you top it up (because the excess gets blown out when the car gets really hot which is always a possibility with the turbo), I would suggest that unless you introduce a larger capacity bottle, then lowering it is going to be fraught with potential airlock problems s:( :( s:(
Quote from: "Peter Wright"To start with for the more ignorant members like myself, what is a
chargecooler and what does it do
Pete
same as an intercooler
but done using water
Quote from: "SteveJ"Without seeing what you have bought and are proposing for the install I'm not sure what to suggest, but given that the coolant always drops to the minimum mark after a while no matter how often you top it up (because the excess gets blown out when the car gets really hot which is always a possibility with the turbo), I would suggest that unless you introduce a larger capacity bottle, then lowering it is going to be fraught with potential airlock problems s:( :( s:(
tend to think your right
I would have thought the location of the inter-cooler header tank should be fairly flexible - the only restriction is that it must be the highest point in the system to capture any air bubbles.
Given that the temperature of the coolant is unlikely to increase much, then you wont need the header to act as an expansion tank either (any expansion should be absorbed by the flexible tubing running forward to the rad). This should result in a relatively small unit that can be hidden just about anywhere in the engine bay (away from extreme sources of heat obviously s;) ;) s;) )
I was thinking of siting my header tank behind the battery. Not such a brilliant place for topping up, but easier to get the height you need to fill the CC system. I just need to get a bit of hosing and then I can be resiting mine while you install yours, so we can all have fun in different locations! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Where did you source your hose?
Nige, nicy easy place for you is where teh charcoal canister used to be
had a quick look tonight and reckon that there might be room for both in Stus case :-) :-) :-) subject to a small modification of teh bracket
I like that idea Mark. There is loads of space on that side in my engine bay. Just need to get a few metres of suitable hose now.
Resiting will tidy up the install no end.
Quote from: "markiii"Nige, nicy easy place for you is where the charcoal canister used to be
so you reckon we should loose the charcoal canister then Mark?
do we nee to do anything when we pull it out then? or just unplug it?
Quote from: "kanujunkie"so you reckon we should loose the charcoal canister then Mark?
do we nee to do anything when we pull it out then? or just unplug it?
I just put the lines together.
There's a VSV on the intake pipe, which opens under strong vacuum and creates vacuum in the tank through the canister. The canister is there only to catch gas fumes and it's not that important. But the vacuum in the tank might have a reason?
cheers Tem, i seem to remember that Dan ran his without the canister, i'll give him a bell later and see if he had any issues
dan still used teh canioster but had the lines from it purged outside rather to teh VSV
Nige has his removed altogether
however I reckon thewre is room for both if teh bracket isd modified
Martin ran his PE without the vacuum lines connected and found that the fuel gauge was a little unpredictable - it would read anywhere between half full and empty when the tank was almost dry s:? :? s:? This almost caught me out on the way back from Anglesey (I'm glad I refilled the jerry can before setting off s:) :) s:) )
Quote from: "markiii"however I reckon thewre is room for both if the bracket isd modified
you've not seen the tanks yet though s:? :? s:?
btw i have some 90deg stainless brackets for us to use, courtesy of the kitchen modifications s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Are you going to tile the engine bay as well Stu? s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "loadswine"Are you going to tile the engine bay as well Stu? s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
could be an interesting install s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
pre-rads just turned up, unfortunatly i now need to find a px switch for it to plug the sensor hole up s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
anyone know any sources of 100mm Dia p-clips?
need them to mount the CC, first though was motorbike exhaust hangers but i'm either finding they cost a bomb or are too large
You could try the universal band from these folks who do supplies for kit cars. Their P clips only go up to about 60mm, but the bands are more dimensionally flexible. ( you can tell I've had a glass of wine or two!)
m http://www.nfauto.co.uk/consumables.htm (http://www.nfauto.co.uk/consumables.htm) m
Pah, you engineering types.. giant tie-wrap not good enough for you? s:P :P s:P s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
cheers for the idea Nige, i'd already seen that but i'm trying to use a p-clip that will support the CC from all sides properly and i wasn't convinced that that strap type material would. I'd found that micron exhaust cans are the same diameter as the CC but the hangers cost over £20 each!
as for tie-wraps! s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Surely (with the strapping) you could 'form' it around the CC so it makes an almost complete circle, then bolt it to the bodywork, and then slide the CC in?
Or something along those lines.
C'mon, tiewrap it on y'great jesse. s;) ;) s;)
no argument on that one, i could definatly form it, however the metal is a perforated material for a start thats plastic coated and over time it will marr the finish of the CC and damage it in time. Proper p-clips have heavy rubber in them and will step the CC away from the metal behind and i'd much rather use them
Mine has a bracket welded to it, but might it be possible to support yours from the two ends? If so, you won't need anything like such big diameter P clips and could probably get clips off the shelf.
Just a thought, sure you've already considered that one.
Any news on this Stu and Mark?
I'm contemplating on going with a pwr barrel charge cooler in the next week and wondering what sort of intake temps ye're getting, if ye've got that far?
kits are now assembled,
just need to find time for teh fitting
somethng neither of us has much of at te mo
time, whats that? s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
but yeah the parts are all there, locations for parts have been sorted, we just need to get together to fit everything. The header tank can fit in the front on the right with the brakeing components, its still at least 3" higher than either chargecooler location. The pump can be fitted anywhere theres space. Were useing adapted mini distributer clamps to hold the pump and i've had my pump adapted to bolt onto the rear crash bar. The wireing will be connected into a new fuse point in the left of the dash.
heres the component list anyway
Hose 32mm (for radiator adaptors)
metro turbo radiator 80-84 (make sure its got the exits both on same side with side exit)
metal to make up new brackets for radiator and chargecooler brackets
various silicon hose
PWR Charge Cooler
Multistep Hose Adaptors
Jubilee Clips for adaptors
Radiator Thermal switch to blank off radiator hole(possible future fan use)
Bosch CC Pump
Header Tank
Hose pipe adaptors
bugger load of 19mm pipe
heatshrink
Wire and sticky mounts
Fuse Holder
connector for Pump
various Screws
7.5 Amp Fuse
various Crimps
Oh yes my turbo cannot be fitted until these boys get their fingers out and throw the chargecoolers in s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "heathstimpson"Oh yes my turbo cannot be fitted until these boys get their fingers out and throw the chargecoolers in s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
nice hint Heath! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
were doing it the first few days after JAE
Quote from: "kanujunkie"Quote from: "heathstimpson"Oh yes my turbo cannot be fitted until these boys get their fingers out and throw the chargecoolers in s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
nice hint Heath! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
were doing it the first few days after JAE
I know no turbo for me at JAE 2007 s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
Quote from: "heathstimpson"I know no turbo for me at JAE 2007 s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
Nor me s:( :( s:( But that's mostly because I can't find anyone who'll quote a price and availability on the Top Secret kit s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
Quote from: "aaronjb"Quote from: "heathstimpson"I know no turbo for me at JAE 2007 s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
Nor me s:( :( s:( But that's mostly because I can't find anyone who'll quote a price and availability on the Top Secret kit s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
they're must be a willing company somewhere s:? :? s:?
Please don't post to this topic...cause I've been seriously thinking about this lately and it doesn't help that you keep upping this. s:P :P s:P
btw Heath, keep forgetting to tell you, i have some injector connectors in the car for your install, can you make sure i either give them to you or Mark at JAE
Quote from: "heathstimpson"they're must be a willing company somewhere s:? :? s:?
You would think, wouldn't you.. I've been waiting on JapanParts for a quote since June 11th s:? :? s:?
Nengun say it takes at least a week to get the Product
Request onto their site, plus several weeks for a price to appear on their site (and they don't contact you, you just have to keep checking)
Most of Top Secret's listed resellers don't list the turbo kit on their site - heck, one of them is a car audio supplier s:? :? s:?
There's a place in Sweden I might try - if I could read their website s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
you tried Prolex?
Yep - he can get the PE, but not the TS
Takakira?
Top secret direct?
m http://www.jappartsspecialist.com/ (http://www.jappartsspecialist.com/) m (new website still under construction btw)
and what about e-mailing e
usa@topsecretjpn.com e direct?
Quote from: "kanujunkie"and what about e-mailing e usa@topsecretjpn.com e direct?
Good point. They can sell at least replacements parts to the kit, so probably the full kit too. Worth asking anyway. s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "kanujunkie"http://www.jappartsspecialist.com/ (new website still under construction btw)
Funny you should mention them - I was going to get the PFC from them (via ebay)
Right - I have mails in to Top Secret, JPS, Nengun and JapanParts... one of them out to work out, you'd think!
And we should get back to the topic of Chargecoolers s;) ;) s;)
(Which reminds me to order that from Australia)
so then stu, assuming that you managed to get up on monday at mark's (you were looking knackered on the sunday night) have you got them both installed yet? Thoughts on driving afterwards?
<Fake Stu voice> We got Stu's installed by the end of Tuesday - it's a long install the first time you do it - and it seemed to work rather well indeed (well, Stu had a big grin on his face after driving it, and the only way I could keep up was by being utterly insane and carrying more corner speed thanks to the Teins).
We didn't get Mark's done because he bought the wrong rad (and we ran out of hose - it needs about 11m per car, and we only had 20m) s:( :( s:( But it's very nearly there.. </Fake Stu voice>
(Yeah, that was Stu talking about himself in the third person, honest s;) ;) s;) )
Quote from: "aaronjb"I can't find anyone who'll quote a price and availability on the Top Secret kit s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
MAYBE It's a secret?
That's a lot of hose Stu ...erm Aaron ...erm Stu.
We're slobbering for some pictures of the install here. s:P :P s:P Did anyone have a camera handy on the day?
Stu did indeed have his camera - I imagine once he wakes up (he's probably been asleep since he got home, if he's got any sense - it's either that or Ele has locked him away somewhere to stop him running away from home again s;) ;) s;) ) he'll post up plenty of pics s:) :) s:)
sorry, been completely knackered after the last 6 days of slog. Firstly a huge thanks to Mark and Aaron for all their help with this, without them it wouldn't have happened, it turns out that a CC install aint as easy as we at first thought and is not far short of a turbo in time. The install of the parts wasn't too bad, just time consuming fabing up all the brackets, the nightmare is in the pipework, its like trying to get a football through a mousehole, not easy.
as for the gains, well its hard for me to say exactly as my intercooler was completely knackered, once we got it off we found 2 fairly sizeable holes in it and hence why i could only make 2-3psi on a normal run. Pre CC i was unable to touch the intake tract as it was so hot it would burn your hand, now i'm able to touch it and it feels cool to the touch. As for pressures, i'm back up to 5-6psi on the wastegate, it pulls like a train though, i hate to see what its going to be like with a tune and 10-12psi, grin territory galore s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
i'll post piccies in a bit
turns out i didn't take anywhere near the photo's that i thought i did s:? :? s:?
PWR 4x10 Barrel chargecooler with some brackets welded on
(http://www.stuandele.co.uk/mr2roc/cc/cc1.jpg)
the pump is a Bosch PA6 and is clamped on with an Austin Mini distributor clamp
(http://www.stuandele.co.uk/mr2roc/cc/cc2.jpg)
the infamous can of WD40 is still in the car, just in a different location now
(http://www.stuandele.co.uk/mr2roc/cc/cc3.jpg)
Header tank
(http://www.stuandele.co.uk/mr2roc/cc/cc4.jpg)
Pump Location
(http://www.stuandele.co.uk/mr2roc/cc/cc6.jpg)
Pre rad install
(http://www.stuandele.co.uk/mr2roc/cc/cc5.jpg)
well thats the hard pics stu
should be able to take loads more of teh finished install
PMSL at the use of the WD40 still! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
you'll never guess who following last times missing silicone hose, forgot one this time as well :-) :-) :-)
Crap, my fat gut got into another photo!
s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Nice teaser pics Stu. Great to see you've found a new home for the can. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Roll on Mark's install s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
So, accepting your IC was creamed so a comparison is difficult, is a CC more efficient than an IC?
hard one si
air to air s better if you can get airflow
air to water is better if you can't
on a roadster i'd say yes, though TTE do very well with an air to air
Quote from: "markiii"you'll never guess who following last times missing silicone hose, forgot one this time as well :-) :-) :-)
didn't forget them, they were ordered about 6 weeks ago, just the bloody company couldn't get their fingers out and deliver them, ironically they were sat on the door mat when i got home s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
last time i read up on CC's they were meant to be 50% more efficient than IC's btw Si
and heath, your IC is out of Marks 2 s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
**runs off to add a can of WD40 to the garage**
Ta.
off topic. Was your boost gauge problem just a gauge problem Stu?
no, it was reading correctly but most of the boost pressure was p**sing out of the 2 holes in the intercooler.
Heat soak times with a CC seem to be around 20mins after that the boost seems to drop slightly and performance is limited slightly, intake temps seem to be very resonable still though although i havn't been able to get an exact reading on them yet
Quote from: "kanujunkie"no, it was reading correctly but most of the boost pressure was p**sing out of the 2 holes in the intercooler.
Heat soak times with a CC seem to be around 20mins after that the boost seems to drop slightly and performance is limited slightly, intake temps seem to be very resonable still though although i havn't been able to get an exact reading on them yet
No, I can imagine it's difficult to hold a thermometer in the intake whilst roaring down a motorway, still I'm sure you'll find a way.
You're speaking a foreign language to me though, I'm afraid, one I will endeavour to learn...."heat soak times"...... is that when it reaches it's max temp?
Quote from: "Mister Rebel"Quote from: "kanujunkie"no, it was reading correctly but most of the boost pressure was p**sing out of the 2 holes in the intercooler.
Heat soak times with a CC seem to be around 20mins after that the boost seems to drop slightly and performance is limited slightly, intake temps seem to be very resonable still though although i havn't been able to get an exact reading on them yet
No, I can imagine it's difficult to hold a thermometer in the intake whilst roaring down a motorway, still I'm sure you'll find a way.
You're speaking a foreign language to me though, I'm afraid, one I will endeavour to learn...."heat soak times"...... is that when it reaches it's max temp?
Yeah, the operating temperature.
Ta Alex. I'll add that to the english/engineer dictionary. s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "Mister Rebel"Quote from: "kanujunkie"no, it was reading correctly but most of the boost pressure was p**sing out of the 2 holes in the intercooler.
Heat soak times with a CC seem to be around 20mins after that the boost seems to drop slightly and performance is limited slightly, intake temps seem to be very resonable still though although i havn't been able to get an exact reading on them yet
No, I can imagine it's difficult to hold a thermometer in the intake whilst roaring down a motorway, still I'm sure you'll find a way.
You're speaking a foreign language to me though, I'm afraid, one I will endeavour to learn...."heat soak times"...... is that when it reaches it's max temp?
you can take the info from the MAF, but i dont have the kit to do it s:( :( s:( its the same piece of kit that Liz has, the gendan one. As for heat soak, its the build up of heat in the main block that the coolant system cannot get rid of. The build up of this heat hampers the performance of the engine. So no its not operating temp but the heat that increases the block temp away from the operating temp
Quote from: "kanujunkie"Quote from: "Mister Rebel"Quote from: "kanujunkie"no, it was reading correctly but most of the boost pressure was p**sing out of the 2 holes in the intercooler.
Heat soak times with a CC seem to be around 20mins after that the boost seems to drop slightly and performance is limited slightly, intake temps seem to be very resonable still though although i havn't been able to get an exact reading on them yet
No, I can imagine it's difficult to hold a thermometer in the intake whilst roaring down a motorway, still I'm sure you'll find a way.
You're speaking a foreign language to me though, I'm afraid, one I will endeavour to learn...."heat soak times"...... is that when it reaches it's max temp?
you can take the info from the MAF, but i dont have the kit to do it s:( :( s:( its the same piece of kit that Liz has, the gendan one. As for heat soak, its the build up of heat in the main block that the coolant system cannot get rid of. The build up of this heat hampers the performance of the engine. So no its not operating temp but the heat that increases the block temp away from the operating temp
Hence the system operating temp (of the system). 0th law of thermodynamics.
Quote from: "kanujunkie"you can take the info from the MAF, but i dont have the kit to do it s:( :( s:( its the same piece of kit that Liz has, the gendan one. As for heat soak, its the build up of heat in the main block that the coolant system cannot get rid of. The build up of this heat hampers the performance of the engine. So no its not operating temp but the heat that increases the block temp away from the operating temp
Come round some time when you're free and we'll hook my laptop up to it - we can at least monitor the intake temperature.. What would be
really good to know, though, would be the CC coolant temperature.
the intake temps dont seem to change much based on the good old palm test, they are still pretty damn cool even after a long run of 60 miles. Would be good to know the temps though so if its ok i'll take you up on that offer Aaron s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
can i get it through the e-manage link somehow?
Quote from: "kanujunkie"can i get it through the e-manage link somehow?
Unfortunately not, but you could always tap into E4 pin 22 (Yellow-Black) via the Boomslang. Thats the intake temp feed to ECU. Range is about 0.5 to 3.5 volts iirc. With a few temp references for scaling you could rig a gauge without having to go for the OBDII software.
I'm probably going to go with a charge cooler in the next short while. Those of you who have gone down this route, how much did it work out price wise and where did ye get the coolers? chargecooler.co.uk or thor?
we used chargecooler.co.uk but the service was less than perfect shall we say. As for the cost i'm up to a the £730 mark for a 4x10 but you can drop that by £50 to £60 if you go for a slightly smaller barrell. Aaron found a company called "horsepower in a box", you could try them. if you want a complete parts list then i'll post it up tonight. You'll need 11-12m of hose rather than the 10m posted earlier
Yeah - Horsepowerinabox.com (http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/HPIAB2/index.html) have good prices on the barrels. They're in Australia, but I dealt with them when I got the turbos on the Nissan - helpful folks (at least they were then).
Everything else I'm getting on eBay (I was lucky and got an incredible deal on a proper Page chargecooler pre-rad, too).
if you have patience tehre are silly deals on teh parts think mine is still under £400 budget at the mo
Yeah but I think you may have bought the only PWR chargecooler to ever appear on eBay s;) ;) s;)
I also brought another cc set up before I got ill. watch this space later.
What was bad on the chargecooler.co.uk service stu? you were raving about them before.
I was going to get their pipes kit ?
they were seriously slow, sometimes poor on comms and as for the connection/pipework kit, the description of the contents of the kit didn't match the parts that turned up, when i complained they just claimed it was a website error, personally i just wouldn't use them. Aaron found the hosepipe cheaper the other day on fleabay, so theres no real need to use them. Hardest part to get hold of is the pump, the Davies ones seem to have a higher failure rate and as such i probably wouldnt use them as a replacement for the Bosch ones
Thanks yeah remembe when I had my last CC the day we went to B&Q or something they had good hose in there even.
The imoc guys advised me back then to use an aquarium supplier for that stuff, oh and they recomended getting the bends from them too, for a proper job.
I think that's where it all comes from anyway Phil s;) ;) s;) The stuff you find on eBay is aquarium stuff - or food grade hose from food factories.
i got the pipe step adaptors from an aquarium place as well
some more pics from install
(http://www.mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/userpics/markiii/chargecooler/cc1.jpg)
(http://www.mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/userpics/markiii/chargecooler/cc2.jpg)
(http://www.mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/userpics/markiii/chargecooler/cc3.jpg)
(http://www.mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/userpics/markiii/chargecooler/cc4.jpg)
(http://www.mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/userpics/markiii/chargecooler/cc5.jpg)
Nicely done Mark. Can't wait to see that in 3D on the Wales run.
Any pics of the pipe routing under the car?
I'll take some whilst fitting teh bracing
My that chargecooler looks mighty small! Mine, that I recall (oh so long ago now..) was about that size, and was a definite restriction during high airflow. Hope you've done ya sums!
/lurker
Mark, are all your panels, bumpers etc held on with bulldog clips? Must be easier the ammount of times you remove them! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "mph"My that chargecooler looks mighty small! Mine, that I recall (oh so long ago now..) was about that size, and was a definite restriction during high airflow. Hope you've done you sums!
/lurker
apparently it's good for 270bhp and I have no plans to run more than that.
pressure drop is nigh onidentical to teh Hass intercooler as well.
so we'll see
worst case it was a bargain so I'll swap it for a bigger one :-) :-) :-)
Hmmmm... 2nd hand charge cooler that was a bargain??
First dibs s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
following the Wales run I did some intake temp logging, opinions appreciated. Temps are in fahrenheit
so that puts max temp at circa 71 degrees C peak though you will also note all peaks temps drop immediately so there is no heat soak :-) :-) :-)
this was running 10psi (which was dynoed to translate to 267bhp, 240ftlbs torque) whilst hairing round the back roads of 5 counties on the way to the hotel in Shrewsbury
at all stops the CC was stone cold
(http://www.mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/userpics/markiii/airtemp/airtemp.jpg)
Quote from: "markiii"opinions appreciated
What's the timescale, seconds? Can you do a longer run at WOT? Preferably few minutes.
yes seconds
will try but was running out of road :-) :-) :-)
try a quick run up the A1 Mark, and if its ok with you then next time i'm up then do a run on mine and see if the larger CC makes any difference?
please
though if you get the chance can you check the temps on yours in the interim.
I just dug out thsi PM from our old mate Perry
heres the temps I posted at the time:-
(Ambient temps are at the MAF read via the Blitz R-Vit - so engine bay temps rather than outside temps. Post C/Cooler temps are read just before the plenum)
Thrashing around town in high boost with stops at traffic lights, regular 12psi
Ambient: 84*F Plenum: 70*F
Cruising at 95mph on motorway for long periods
Ambient: 90*F Plenum: 91*F
Full out boosting for long periods on the motorway, at times reaching speeds of 135mph+
Ambient: 108*F Plenum: 97*F
to give you an idea of the efficency of this system, I was previously reading temps of 60-65*C (149*F) whilst just cruising at 90mph on the motorway, as for temps when previously boosting hard, I dont know as I had to turn of the temp gauge as the in-built alarm would go off at 65*C!
these are considerably lower with the sam CC, thats said he was running 40bhp less and the ambient temps in the engine bay would have been much lower to.
Steve wonders if my MAF is buggered from the extreme hest it had to live with during my mishap. which is possible.
Quote from: "markiii"some more pics from install
(http://www.mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/userpics/markiii/chargecooler/cc1.jpg)
(http://www.mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/userpics/markiii/chargecooler/cc2.jpg)
(http://www.mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/userpics/markiii/chargecooler/cc3.jpg)
(http://www.mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/userpics/markiii/chargecooler/cc4.jpg)
(http://www.mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/userpics/markiii/chargecooler/cc5.jpg)
Hi
Ive noticed your charge temps on your readings are quite high. s:? :? s:?
Can you confirm these points :
The header tank water level is higher than the elbows on the chargecooler core..
The water from the cold side of the radiator goes into the throttle body end of the core, not the turbo end.
The header tank and pump are on the cold side of the radiator, and that the pump is the lowest point in the system.
The reason why to put it in comparison, is you shouldnt be seeing any more than 20C above ambient.
For example, a customers Alpine GTA, which is a rear engined turbo V6, and suffers huge heat issues in the engine bay, recorded only 40c max all day at Castle Coombe, on a 24c ambient day, at 1 bar of boost. This was max sustained temps, on a track day, abeit using the slightly larger 4x8 core, but installed as per my instructions. These temperatures were logged on his standalone ECU.
Thanks
David
well mark cant confirm that anymore as his kits sat on the shelf in his garage but i'll double check the lines as mines the same, but i designed it and yes the header is way above the CC, on mine its about 12 inches higher. The temps have dropped a huge amount but are definatley not that low. The 1ZZ suffers with virtually no flow of air through the bay and with evrything rather tightly crammed in the heat soak can be huge, the one time i did measure the temps i had 70-80 degs and thats why i put the CC in, i was literally burning my hand on the intake whereas now its cool to the touch
Quote from: "kanujunkie"well mark cant confirm that anymore as his kits sat on the shelf in his garage but i'll double check the lines as mines the same, but i designed it and yes the header is way above the CC, on mine its about 12 inches higher. The temps have dropped a huge amount but are definatley not that low. The 1ZZ suffers with virtually no flow of air through the bay and with evrything rather tightly crammed in the heat soak can be huge, the one time i did measure the temps i had 70-80 degs and thats why i put the CC in, i was literally burning my hand on the intake whereas now its cool to the touch
Yes, we have the same problem on the Alpines. The engine bay temps are around 70-80 degrees, but our bay is air tight from the top. The rear hatch is completely glass with a rubber water tight seal. There is evena secondary engine cover, as well as the glass. There is no airflow at all, and still saw no more than 40c on a hot day.
(http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7353/gta3ki5.jpg)
i think i need to sort out some accurate measurements, shame its not summer though s:? :? s:?
the other CC should be fitted in someones car by the summer as well, so perhaps we can sort out some readings from that one as well
I really hope I have mine fitted by summer, too.. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Stu - remind me, which size barrel did you buy?
4x10 iirc
Ta Stu - I was trying to remember if we decided 8 or 10" would fit in my upper boost pipe space.. I'll have to measure again s:) :) s:)
I think I'll go for the 6" diameter - probably a 6x8.
that should give a better area to length coverage, only thing is the volume increase will create a bit more lag although that should be minimul especially with the system you have s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "aaronjb"Ta Stu - I was trying to remember if we decided 8 or 10" would fit in my upper boost pipe space.. I'll have to measure again s:) :) s:)
I think I'll go for the 6" diameter - probably a 6x8.
I have some new 5" cores coming out next month. These fill the gap between the 4 and the 6, but don't have the over large 3" inlet and outlets that can cause installation issues sometimes.
Some more independant results. The first is from an Alpine GTA, rear engine turbo car which suffers more heat soak issues than you will occur.
He is running 1 bar of boost too, on a 50 Trim T3, so even the compressor is past efficiency too. This was tested on a 26 degree day last Summer.
m http://www.renaultalpineownersclub.com/ ... rees#16677 (http://www.renaultalpineownersclub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=16677&highlight=degrees#16677) m
This one is a Renault 5 GT turbo, running 1.5 bar on a T28 sized blower. Currently puts out just over 240bhp, and runs low 12 second quarter miles.
m http://tinyurl.com/2g2p4z (http://tinyurl.com/2g2p4z) m
Cheers
David
Quote from: "chargecooler"I have some new 5" cores coming out next month. These fill the gap between the 4 and the 6, but don't have the over large 3" inlet and outlets that can cause installation issues sometimes.
Hi David,
do you have these 5" cores already? Do you have the measurements for these as your homepage only covers 4" and 6" models?
m http://www.advancedvehicletuning.co.uk/avtpwr.htm (http://www.advancedvehicletuning.co.uk/avtpwr.htm) m
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "chargecooler"I have some new 5" cores coming out next month. These fill the gap between the 4 and the 6, but don't have the over large 3" inlet and outlets that can cause installation issues sometimes.
Hi David,
do you have these 5" cores already? Do you have the measurements for these as your homepage only covers 4" and 6" models?
m http://www.advancedvehicletuning.co.uk/avtpwr.htm (http://www.advancedvehicletuning.co.uk/avtpwr.htm) m
Ah yes, I havent got round to adding them to the site yet, they were delayed quite a while. Give me a day and it will be all updated with prices and dimensions.
David, your store appears to be a little.. broken:
QuoteFatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in C:Inetpubvhostsadvancedvehicletuning.co.ukhttpdocscatalogincludesfunctionsdatabase.php on line 44
And you should probably start cloaking your error pages, or it makes it
really easy to start performing directory traversal attacks, amongst other things s;) ;) s;)
Hey Mark and Stu
Any chance you could post some details on how you had your CC pumps wired in and where to?
pumps was mounted toi teh undersideof the metal strut supportig teh front bin, then wired into the fusebox under teh nose
tap into the power busbar and mount a new relay
OK will have a look at that. Is it the 7.5A fuse you used for the Pump?
that I don;t know Simon and Rogers CC are wired up teh same way best bet get one of them to check
Cool I did have a search but couldn't find the power rating for the Bosch pump anywhere.
Quote from: "custardavenger"Cool I did have a search but couldn't find the power rating for the Bosch pump anywhere.
I'm not sure if this one is identical to the one they sell on their site, but says 1.3A:
m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Charge-cooler-pum ... 1|240:1318 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Charge-cooler-pump-water-chargecooler-turbo-charger_W0QQitemZ280295654296QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item280295654296&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1689%7C66:2%7C65:12%7C39:1%7C240:1318) m
I'm sure 7.5A fuse is more than enough though. s8) 8) s8)
Ah, nevermind, they say max 5A on their site:
m http://www.advancedvehicletuning.co.uk/ ... ucts_id=28 (http://www.advancedvehicletuning.co.uk/catalog2/product_info.php?cPath=21_28&products_id=28) m
Sweet. Didn't realise they sold them (couldn't afford them so didn't look).
I'm gonna start getting all the stuff at the front of the car installed then look into the tank and CC when back on the road. I guess its off to the pond center then. Haven't totally decided yet but may reduce down after the pump to 1/2" rather than 3/4", will be much easier for fittings at the other end.
Will look this weekend Rob. That E-bay one is what I've got.
Quote from: "aaronjb"Yeah - Horsepowerinabox.com (http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/HPIAB2/index.html) have good prices on the barrels. They're in Australia, but I dealt with them when I got the turbos on the Nissan - helpful folks (at least they were then).
Thanks!
Three emails to chargecooler.co.uk without a reply. One email to horsepowerinabox.com and a reply within a day. s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "Tem"Three emails to chargecooler.co.uk without a reply. One email to horsepowerinabox.com and a reply within a day. s:D :D s:D
Good to see their customer service is still good s:) :) s:)
Rob - I also have the eBay pump, and it's working fine for me. My rad is also 12mm, the rest of the system is 19mm.
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/cc/photos/DSC00012.JPG)
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/cc/photos/DSC00022.JPG)
[edit] Oops sorry, didn't mean to post the giant pics straight from the camera! [/edit]
Do love the look of the set ups in this thread guys. Looks like the ultimate cooling solution reading around on other forums. Wish I had room s:( :( s:(
From horsepowerinabox.com total for the 4 x 6 kit with everything is 459.99 quid delivered. Probably about 528 after tax has been whacked on. Seems like a bargain!
As well as chucking out more power is the throttle response response from less lag compared to an intercooler noticeable?
Also they have 2.3" intake diameter. Would flanging down from 2.5 or 2.75 matter or is it immaterial?
Quote from: "aaronjb"(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/cc/photos/DSC00012.JPG)
Do you have a pic of that with the bumper on? s8) 8) s8)
I do, but the full-size UK plate I had on at the time covers pretty much everything:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/cc/photos/DSC00023.JPG)
That's good enough, thanks! s:D :D s:D
Browsing around eBay, I came up with radiators like this:
m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PEUGEOT-CITROEN-A ... dZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PEUGEOT-CITROEN-A-NEW-RADIATOR-106-GTI-SAXO-PETROL_W0QQitemZ280312476857QQihZ018QQcategoryZ10406QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem) m
Any thoughts about these for chargecooler coolant? I like how it has an integrated tank and pressure cap...and the price is pretty nice too. Radiator for 1.6l GTI/VTS cars should be more than enough for a chargecooler coolant, right?
No idea if that specific model fits us, but there are other similar models and there's quite a lot of room between our radiator and the bumper.
Capacity wise that would be fine, but room wise there's less room than you'd think, especially if the rad has outlets that face 'backward' toward the car - there's not enough room to get a 32mm bend (the usual ID of radiator hose, if memory serves) in there..
You really need a rad with two outlets at one end if you're using a car radiator - like the Rover Metro Turbo rad that Stu and Mark used (for the early model Metro only, late models from 84 onward used one rear facing outlet if memory serves). Like this one (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MG-METRO-1300-TURBO-RADIATOR-NEW-1000-1300-METRO_W0QQitemZ350093067722QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item350093067722&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318).
Quote from: "aaronjb"Capacity wise that would be fine, but room wise there's less room than you'd think, especially if the rad has outlets that face 'backward' toward the car - there's not enough room to get a 32mm bend (the usual ID of radiator hose, if memory serves) in there..
I was thinking the other way around, facing the outlet forward and then using a 90degree silicone bend, which reduces it from 32mm to 25mm (happen to have a pair of those) and then using a metal garden hose connector, which happens to be 25mm on the other end and meant for 19mm hose.
I didn't really check the fitment though.. s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
QuoteYou really need a rad with two outlets at one end if you're using a car radiator - like the Rover Metro Turbo rad that Stu and Mark used (for the early model Metro only, late models from 84 onward used one rear facing outlet if memory serves). Like this one (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MG-METRO-1300-TURBO-RADIATOR-NEW-1000-1300-METRO_W0QQitemZ350093067722QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item350093067722&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318).
That would be easier. I just searched eBay for "radiator" and browsed the first 30 pages of pics and didn't see any of these. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "Tem"That's good enough, thanks! s:D :D s:D
Browsing around eBay, I came up with radiators like this:
m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PEUGEOT-CITROEN-A ... dZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PEUGEOT-CITROEN-A-NEW-RADIATOR-106-GTI-SAXO-PETROL_W0QQitemZ280312476857QQihZ018QQcategoryZ10406QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem) m
Any thoughts about these for chargecooler coolant? I like how it has an integrated tank and pressure cap...and the price is pretty nice too. Radiator for 1.6l GTI/VTS cars should be more than enough for a chargecooler coolant, right?
No idea if that specific model fits us, but there are other similar models and there's quite a lot of room between our radiator and the bumper.
I would say it might work it if you had the outlets facing forward but as Aaron says it could be very tight. The thing I would worry about is whether the top of the rad is higher than your charge cooler. Depending on your instalation than mught be difficult.
Quote from: "aaronjb"Rob - I also have the eBay pump, and it's working fine for me. My rad is also 12mm, the rest of the system is 19mm.
I've already got the pump and Metro rad. So rad to the header on your is 12mm and to the CC is 19mm? I'm looking at the other way round? Mighty funky hose you've used. Is that vacuum hose
I guess as there is a fair bit of interest I may try and do a drawing of the brackets needed to mount a metro rad for anyone else who wants to do it. Has anyone got pictures of theirs? I've had a look already but am not sure that my first idea will be strong enough as the rad whan full is gonna be pretty heavy and it's weight is only supported by the bottom brackets.
Quote from: "custardavenger"The thing I would worry about is whether the top of the rad is higher than your charge cooler. Depending on your instalation than mught be difficult.
The cooler will be quite low, barely above the rear subframe.
Btw, why's that? I've read it before, but didn't quite get it. Is it because air is supposed to end up to the highest point? Does it do that anyway on the '2, cause the rad and CC will be high points with the hoses going under the car?
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "custardavenger"The thing I would worry about is whether the top of the rad is higher than your charge cooler. Depending on your instalation than mught be difficult.
The cooler will be quite low, barely above the rear subframe.
Btw, why's that? I've read it before, but didn't quite get it. Is it because air is supposed to end up to the highest point? Does it do that anyway on the '2, cause the rad and CC will be high points with the hoses going under the car?
Its the air thing and also when you undo the cap the water above that level will flow out. If your below that then no problems.
Quote from: "custardavenger"also when you undo the cap the water above that level will flow out
Ah, of course. s:oops: :oops: s:oops: