Well, had a problem with P0141 a couple of weeks back. Got a generic sensor from Gendan - spliced it in - bye bye light.
Whilst I had it out I also changed the exhaust and gutted the precats (which were in perfect condition actually - no need to worry about any potential damage!!)
Now heres where the fun begins.. the exhaust sounds like it's blowing...however used all new gaskets etc when fitting..even used some of the assembly paste stuff just to make sure. Also you cant hear it when idling or blipping the throttle, had my brother down there feeling for leaks whilst i was in the pilots seat!! It only seems to do it under load (i.e when driving). It may just be its natural sound but it doesnt seem right to me.
Also in the last few days its throwing CEL's for all 3 sensors... although this is intermittent - I can reset them and take it for a good long thrash and it's fine sometimes...others up they pop. I know when i had the initial one go it came back straight away when reset! Also ..i was extremely careful when removing the sensors - not worried about having damaged them as am used to working with fragile materials.
Anyone have any ideas.
P.s Also tried different settings on Unichip, one map seems to ba a little better than the other?!
unichip will do nothing unless theres an intermittant connection of course or its completely knackered. As for the CELS well do you also get a message for the EVAP system as well? if so its a dodgy fuse on the LHS of the engine bay, one of the 7.5amp ones thats marked up as EFI2, try changeing it anyway
Hmm, CELs and blowing exhaust may be related as the readings from the O2 sensors won't tally with what the ECU is expecting.
For all three to be going, there must be a problem between the engine and exhaust manifold. The way you describe it though, only blowing on load makes it sound like a small leak.
Well i had a new one last nite... none of the o2 sensors threw a CEL, instead i got P0125 - insufficient coolant temp for closed loop fuel!!
I know what you mean about a leak round the manifold possibly causing the 3 sensors to act up...have disconnected and reconnected it twice now (along with addition of paste) and cant find the problem. Dont think i would be able to persuade anyone to hold onto the back so i can recreate the conditions i'm getting it at - i.e under load (driving)!!
It never rains eh?! Anyone?
give the ECU a reset, sounds like its playing up
Indeed, or possibly a wiring fault? Common earth on all those sensors maybe, something along those lines..
they do indeed have a common earth
Ok, will reset the ECU anyway as thats a doddle.
They all have a common earth eh, where is it located?...will disconnect and make sure theres good contact...can also trace back and see if I have any problems down the line!!
Thanks for advice guys.
not sure on that, i can post up the wiring diagrams tonight if you want
If you would matey please...gonna have to get my work head back on!!
m http://www.stuandele.co.uk/mr2roc/enginecontrol.pdf (http://www.stuandele.co.uk/mr2roc/enginecontrol.pdf) m
Right... after having the manifold etc off and refitting with generous amounts of hylomar, the o2 sensors are no longer lighting up the CEL.
Unfortunately i'm now getting P0443 EVAP Emission Control System Purge Valve C Fault.
Anyone... evrytime I seem to get rid of one, up pops another!!
Checked the earth and it seems fine (Engine block LH??), no corrosion etc making it a bad earth.
its the fuse, look in the engine bay, left side theres a fuse box there, inside there are 2 fuses in there that are 7.5amps, one of them is marked EFI2, replace that and the messages should clear
Cheers Stu, it did the trick......... for 2 days anyway!
Now i'm back to the original P0141. I do not have the expletives to say how i feel!!!
Am hoping that it's just a bad connection in one of the crimps on the new sensor i put on (closes eyes and prays) as there is a bit of vibration at the moment in the exhaust as dont have the hanger for the second pipe mounted yet- brackets in the post - and its vibrating against bits at the back of the car. Really annoying too!
If not, looks like another sensor s:( :( s:(
Check the resistance of the sensor - I checked Ross' last weekend and it bells out to 4.5Ohms, the second replacement he'd got was 4Ohms - my suspicions (based on what someone else posted in another thread) is that the power draw is making the ECU think the heater is shorted out..
Standard resistance is ~14Ohms - or rather, was on Ross' two original manifold O2s.
If you're using an ebay sensor it might be worth sending Gendan an email to see what the resistance of the heater circuit on their generic 4-wire Zirconia sensor is?
[edit] Because I'm nice like this, I mailed Gendan for you s;) ;) s;) Here's their reply:
Quote from: "Gendan"The universal sensors all have a resistance of around 4.5 - 5 ohms. Toyota and Honda tend to tweak a lot of their sensors to increase the heater resistance, and so those cars aren't really compliant with the universal sensors. We do sell direct-fit sensors for a lot of them though, which have the relevant resistance.
Which is interesting to know s:) :) s:)
Of course, the direct-fit's are expensive (though slightly less so than Toyota):
m http://www.gendan.co.uk/product_LB1578.html (http://www.gendan.co.uk/product_LB1578.html) m
Right, thanks for e-mailing them for me!!
Hmm, interesting. Not using an ebay one, did get a generic from Gendan.
Will have to get the multimeter on it at the weekend and see what it's doing.
Anyone else had any problems with the generic ones from Gendan.
Did do a good search on them at the time and dont seem to remember anyone having problems with them - although I am probably wrong.
As for price, they are rather costly!!
Quote from: "carl_evs"Anyone else had any problems with the generic ones from Gendan.
Did do a good search on them at the time and dont seem to remember anyone having problems with them - although I am probably wrong.
As for price, they are rather costly!!
Yes - absolutely, it would've been nice for them to make that statement before i bought their generic sensor for Toyota / Honda engines!! That's just not nice. I get P0141 when starting warm - reset it and i'm ok for the rest of the trip. From cold generally not a problem - but not always.
And that price s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
I will do a bit of searching for an alternative.
Thanks for posting this up guys - i am not going mad after all! s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
I've found that "Walkers" do a direct replacement sensor, their code is 250-24360, busy finding places that sell them now.
Looky look here (http://www.partsquick.com/ProductDetail.asp?i=241891)
and here (http://www.mccullochs.com/WalkerOxygenSensors.html)
A rather useful page- here (http://65.127.236.186/results.asp?YEAR=2003&MAKE=TOYOTA&MODEL=MR2+SPYDER&LITER=1.8#)
Which means the part code for the one after the cat is 250-24404, it appears Jaguar use the same one!
Don't seem to be having any luck getting the US places to sell across the water, so trying these guys (http://www.lambdasensor.com/main/mjust.htm) now.
Another chart telling us about options here (http://home.att.net/~ngksparkplugs/wsb/NTK_OEM_Cross_Reference_Rev1.pdf)
Let us know how you get on with that s:) :) s:)
It seems that it's rather luck of the draw whether the generics will work or not - some peoples ECUs are perfectly happy with a low resistance, while others aren't.
You could, of course, fit a wire-wound resistor in series with one of the heater leads, which would increase the overall resistance to a point where it doesn't pop a CEL.
Ok how does around $120 sound?
Look here (http://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/mfr,BOSCH,Emission,5132,Oxygen+Sensor), does it look familiar and even comes with the cable clips?
Wabbit, if you need one and are happy to wait a couple of weeks i can get them shipped over for nothing - altough may incur tax.
My head office in the Us will receive them and either send them with the weekly load or my US boss will bring them with him when he flies over on the 24th.
Might save us messing trying to get a company to mail overseas.
Edit: Looking on one of the links - Rockauto - there is a beck/arnley one at $80 with clip. Just over 40 quid and no splicing. Looks like the one for me. Will hold off and see what you want to do!
That'll be this one then
Linky (http://info.rockauto.com/BeckArnley/Detail.html?1564171.jpg)
Yup - i think i'll order that - note they sell MAFs too
I received my new O2 on friday, and although it doesn't have the Denso markings, all wiring and plugs match the OEM sensor.
Checked the heater circuit and 16.5 ohms recorded.
That's as opposed to the generic one sold by Gendan which measures at 4.9 ohms.
I'll let you know if it performs properly.
Please do!
Will order one if they do the trick!!
Not to hijack this thread (I'll start a new one if I'm told) but:
my car just threw a cell today. I'm off to the US on Thursday and can't get it serviced beforehand. I don't have an OBD II reader.
Anyone have any suggestions for things to check? The car is running perfectly, as far as I can tell. I've checked obvious things like hoses and wires to the limited extent of my knowledge. I'll reset the ECU now.
What are the kinds of things that could trigger a CEL without any obvious symptoms?
Looks like another O2 sensor.
I'm waiting on my OBDII reader to arrive at the mo. I'm also waiting on my O2 sensor to arrive from Toyota.
I bought a generic 4 wire one, fitted it and it works until the engine gets to normal running temp. Then it throws the error again. Looks like the generic just doesn't sned the correct readings when the exhaust gas gets hot. So I've gotten a mate of mine in a garage to order one from toyota at trade price.
FYI, the genuine O2 sensors in the USA are $120 from a main dealer (about £60). Also by-the-by, I've just ordered an OBD II reader from Gendan. They have an offer on at the moment for readers in pre-opened packages down from £95 to £60 inc PnP. Find it at m http://www.gendan.co.uk/product_CLPKTSCAN.html (http://www.gendan.co.uk/product_CLPKTSCAN.html) m
I also had a P0141 but the Mr T changed bank 1 sensor 1 and charged me £250 for the trouble! The CEL is back but as Mr T has admitted his error, I'm getting bank 1 sensor 2 FOC (hence the interest in a code reader for future problem DIY dignostics).
Wabbit, you fitted the sensor yet? How's it going? Any problems?
Turns out it was an O2 sensor in my case: bank 1, sensor 1. Guy there said that's the right-hand side one on the manifold. Is this right? Also, any difference between the right and the left?
Bank 1 Sensor 1 is on the RHS looking forward.
as DCS777 says its the right one Steve, the two sensors themselves are the same p/n
Carl,
My replacement O2 from RockAuto seems to be a good one. Though I can only talk from a position of one days use and approx 100 miles with 4 stops. Been working away all week so no chance to do any more play. I will know after the Wales trip this weekend for certain.
On the talk of OBDII readers, whatever Gendan are charging, I bought mine off eBay for £15 and it does the job well. I found somewhere for £99 for a full Greddy reader which outputs all data from th ecu as you drive - kind of a digital dashbord job with absolutely everything about the running of the car displayable.
Thats good enough for me pal, need to get it ordered this weekend as I'm away in Belgium all next week and dont know what my chances of net access will be!! Thanks for trying it out.
Hopefully anyone else looking for sensors can go here instead of Gendan. A little more expensive but better than having to splice - and a lot better than 130 knicker!!
My O2 Sensor nightmare continues. I bought one in the US no problem. No problem, at least, until my mother threw it out!
So I bought another one online. Installed it on the right side of the manifold (the code I was told about was Bank 1 Sensor 1) and, after an hour or so: CEL!
So I bought an OBD2 reader (was going to buy one anyway) and got the code: P0141: Bank 1, Sensor 2.
Am now on to the Mr T who told me Bank 1 Sensor 1 and they are claiming that 'it's not uncommon for O2 sensors to go out one after the other.' I think this is improbable.
I'm already out of pocket for 2 O2 sensors. I understand that they are all the same (correct?) but for the length of the cable. Is there any reason why I can't simply cut the 4 leads to the existing post-cat sensor, remove it, and splice in the new sensor? I really don't want to buy yet another O2 sensor.
According to everything i've read they are exactly the same, just different length leads as you say.
IMHO that Mr T is talking [round spherical objects usually used in games such as footy, tennis, golf, cricket and such]
Can someone quickly give me the respective OBD2 codes for:
Bank 1, Sensor 1
Bank 2, Sensor 1?
I know that Bank 1, Sensor 2 (post-cat) is P0141. Mr T is now going to check what the code was when I brought it in to them and I want to be armed.
Quote from: "Ernie Ball"Can someone quickly give me the respective OBD2 codes for:
Bank 1, Sensor 1
Bank 2, Sensor 1?
I know that Bank 1, Sensor 2 (post-cat) is P0141. Mr T is now going to check what the code was when I brought it in to them and I want to be armed.
m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12480 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12480) m
Depends what failure you want - heater circuit? P0135 P0155
m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12480 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12480) m
*edit - beaten by a better man s:cry: :cry: s:cry: *
Thanks guys.
Also, how would you go about splicing the 4 wires to a new sensor? Just cut 'em, strip 'em and tape 'em together with electrical tape? Or is heat going to be an issue?
Also, do I risk electrocution if I don't even unplug the sensor and snip them right there on the car? That'd make replacement a bit easier as I wouldn't have to fuss with the cable....
If you don't have the facility to solder them, use a decent quality terminal block. The high-temp wire doesn't strip very easily and is a bit "waxy", so take your time to ensure a good connection.
I've never soldered before in my life, but it might be worth doing. Will a garden-variety soldering iron do the job? Also: what would I be soldering to what? Any other tips? Or should I just not bother?
Thanks a million for your advice, all. I appreciate it.
The wires are a s*d to tin and solder together, so you need a reasonably decent soldering iron. If you've never soldered before, go with the terminal block approach.
(http://www.mylittleworld.co.uk/acatalog/4_terminal_block.jpg)
Join White to white,
Blue to Blue.
Black to Black (x2) These are not polarity-dependent so it doesn't matter which black goes to which black (if that makes sense)
Great advice.
Last question (I hope): terminal blocks come in all shapes and sizes. Can you recommend one that won't cause electrical or other problems?
If it was me I'd definitely solder it - but having said that I've seen crimp connections work OK on someone elses car, and personally I'd favour those over chocolate blocks (the screw terminals shown above)
(http://www.moccsplace.com/images/harley/acc/crimp_640.jpg)
(But get a better crimp tool than that - a proper one, rather than the cheapy ones like that)
That's way too professional s:wink: :wink: s:wink: but yes, Aaron is right (if you can get the dman things to work properly!)
If you go the terminal block route, don't use anything too big. A strip of 5amp blocks will do the job for less than a quid (or a Euro-and-a-half to you s:lol: :lol: s:lol: ), providing you strap 'em away from excessive heat.
Its good to have choices s8) 8) s8)
Useful tip regarding the crimps.
Use self grips, wind them down close to zero and the crimp the crimps. Becuase the jaw size has a larger surface area they crush the crimp onto the wire much better.
That's one of my dads tips - can't beat old engineers s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Useful tip regarding the crimps.
Use self grips, wind them down close to zero and the crimp the crimps. Becuase the jaw size has a larger surface area they crush the crimp onto the wire much better.
That's one of my dads tips - can't beat old engineers s8) 8) s8)
What are 'self grips'?
Here's a linky (http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/lrgimg_popup.jsp;jsessionid=NWWHPCRSFDBPUCSTHZOCFFI?productId=17518&imageNo=null&ts=59442) to give you the idea
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Here's a linky (http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/lrgimg_popup.jsp;jsessionid=NWWHPCRSFDBPUCSTHZOCFFI?productId=17518&imageNo=null&ts=59442) to give you the idea
Ah. Cross-cultural translation problem. I call those Vise-grips.
Or some people call them mole grips!
Still they do a better job than the tools that were allegedly designed for the job s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I've now spoken to Mr T again. He claims the original code was a P0130, which means Bank 1, Sensor 1 (the one I replaced).
He could, of course, have simply looked up the code that suited him without actually checking the code I actually had on the day.
So, in order to test this, I've reset the ECU and put back the original sensor. We shall see what kind of codes get thrown up now!
But I do know that the postcat sensor is out. So two more questions:
1) Anyone know how long the leads are on the post-cat sensor? I ask because the lead on the pre-cat sensor that I purchased is about 2-3 inches longer than the stock one it replaced: it's about 30cm from the top of the sensor to the base of the plug. Maybe I could use this one?
2) Am I right to assume that replacement of the post-cat sensor involves removing the bumper? Seems pretty much impossible to get to the plug/socket area though maybe things will look different if I jack up the car.
Quote from: "Ernie Ball"1) Anyone know how long the leads are on the post-cat sensor? I ask because the lead on the pre-cat sensor that I purchased is about 2-3 inches longer than the stock one it replaced: it's about 30cm from the top of the sensor to the base of the plug. Maybe I could use this one?
Nah, too short,the one after the main cat is about twice as long.
Quote from: "Ernie Ball"2) Am I right to assume that replacement of the post-cat sensor involves removing the bumper? Seems pretty much impossible to get to the plug/socket area though maybe things will look different if I jack up the car.
You can get to it, it's just a little fiddly. I didn't even bother to jack the car up.
Simon
Quote from: "Ernie Ball"I've now spoken to Mr T again. He claims the original code was a P0130, which means Bank 1, Sensor 1 (the one I replaced).
Well, P0130 is "P0130 O2 Sensor Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 1)" - that means it's
not the heater circuit. In fact it's a very generic code that means basically anything could be wrong that there isn't a specific code for.
Could easily be a wiring fault between the sensor & ECU, rather than the sensor itself..
Quote2) Am I right to assume that replacement of the post-cat sensor involves removing the bumper? Seems pretty much impossible to get to the plug/socket area though maybe things will look different if I jack up the car.
Nope - remove the passenger side rear light (two screws, be careful of the little plastic peg on the bottom left hand corner of the light - pull the light out toward the center of the car if possible).
You can then remove the three cable clips easily - one is under the rear light, one is at the bottom (look upward from under the car) and the other is on the inner side of the rear crash bar - you can reach down through the light hole and prise it out.
Goes back in more easily than it came out, thankfully - just dangle it down through the hole and clip the cables in.
OK, thanks to all your help, I've got the O2 sensor wired up and back in the car. So far, so good.
Quick question about crimp connectors: I just twisted the two ends of wire together, got the sleeve over them and squished them with the vise-grip. Is there anything else I need to do (like point a blowdryer at the plastic housing)?