And now for the pictures of recent developments, first is sent off one of these...
(http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/902/photo05121328da6.jpg)
To be turned into this...
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9043/photo051213273ib7.jpg)
Here's the comparrison
(http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5198/photo05121331tr2.jpg)
So Ste helped me fit it...
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8427/image077sd6.jpg)
(http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/3809/image076an7.jpg)
Makes a surprising difference!
I then put a TRD lightened flywheel in and Exedy organic clutch (Thanks to Dave at Prolex) - again a surprising and amusing difference to delivery.
Yesterday, me, Ste, and one or two very useful helpers fitted this;
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/6895/janspeed051707001je8.jpg)
(http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7341/janspeed052707012jz6.jpg)
(http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5633/janspeed052707016di6.jpg)
(http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1117/janspeed052707015yv7.jpg)
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8413/janspeed052707014sj8.jpg)
Yes - that is the Janspeed exhaust! I was really surprised it came with a downpipe - and what appears "ahem" to be a catalyst of some sort (thanks to Dave at Prolex again) - top bit of kit, i just hope it quietens down a bit with time!
What next?
Well - one of these...
(http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/434/571wm6.jpg)
plus this...
(http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/7377/0511itgreddy01zhz1.jpg)
With MAP sensor input and Innovate wideband and then a visit to our friends at Hypersports.
No idea what it's going to make power wise but it has been interesting and makes my baby a bit unique in a croud of friends. Ste reckons i'm a boxster wannabe, but i don't care s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
did you bang your head recently?
have to say, hats off to you nik. you really have gone hi tech, hi spec within the space of a week.
and despite it sounding a little subaru ish its a lovely throaty roar you have. im looking forward to being behind you on our next jaunt - which i believe could be the anglesey run?
good work....
and..........
yes, you have guessed it
(http://www.mingara.com.au/media/gold%20star.jpg)
another gold star for you chap. ( thats 2 i believe)
J
Heh -why thank you kind sir, i must say that although Ste wasn't looking himself yesterday
(http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8773/janspeed052707017vs1.jpg)
It wouldn't have been possible without his help, his facilities, or his copious supply of Caffeine rich products. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
That scooby noise is interesting, i've heard it mentioned about other peoples 2's too! At least the feds will be too busy looking for a souped up Scoob and over look likkle me s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
damm those pesky feds. should be out catching real criminals
Just a couple of photos from yesterday, firstly one to prove that Nick got his hands dirty....
(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5329/danny1vm1.jpg)
Also
Hey Nick you forgot your 'Angry Eyes' s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
(http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9206/danny2yw6.jpg)
*[Mod]Pics edited and re-hosted to protect the innocent s:wink: :wink: s:wink: - Ste [/Mod]*
Edited to have pics the right way round and slapped wrists taken - Danny
Where was the TB bought from?!
Its an interesting and different route that Nic is taking with his car ... I'm looking forward to the next installment with the electronics.
Nic & I convoyed for a bit today. The Janspeed sounds really, really, really nice. Under load its a tad loud but its got that throatiness that makes the engine sound more solid (if you know what I mean).
And its a beautifully made piece of kit at an amazing price.
The TB is also a really well turned out (!) piece of work - the enlarged butterfly and smoothed inlet tract give the N/A a few more torques.
All excellent stuff.
*sells up and starts again in a frenzy of jealousy*
I bought the throttle body from a breakers through an online search - one of the usual parts finder jobs, £40 all in.
Looking through Spyderchat i found this (http://www.maxbore.com/) place. The guy is called Jorge Pugliese, he quoted me $180 for the bore out and flow with return postage. It took 2-3 weeks for the round trip of the TB. The outer casing was untouched, but the bore was nicely reamed out and smooth with new butterfly in place. Jorge is a good guy, but for some reason SC have removed his listing so they must've found someone else for their work. The butterfly has 560 stamped on it - whatever that means, but flow characteristics of the throttle "feel" much smoother and deeper.
I was worried because soon after fitting the TB i got and engine light and it took me a week or two to get a reader. In that time i didn't go far - but it turns out the code was 0141 so it appears just to be a coincidence if such a thing exists. ECU was obviously reset when the TB went in, but who would've guessed i would get an 0141 for the 3rd O2 heater circuit going duff. It only comes on when up to running temperature and i've got a generic replacement from Gendan to fit tomorrow so will update after that with the result.
With the TB alone response was quite interesting. You can hear the engine breathing deeper and throttle response was definitely quicker, especially when you were already carrying momentum. The wierdest thing was the reduced affect of engine braking. Adding the lightened flywheel and clutch brought some of the engine braking back which is kind of wierd but at the same time pleasing. Response when pulling away is great and driving my usual sweepeing a and b roads is now in a new dimension - highly amusing
So you like it then s:) :) s:)
iI once had an offer for a Bored TB but wasnt interested, but im now interested again, most likely it wont do much but it carnt hurt to try!
Im not sure if anyone does it on SC, maybe Littlerocket?
Nick , what can i say.. amazing stuff.. I'm jelous. Very jelous!.... Do you feel the lightened flywheel is a big difference? because thats my next possible change??
Alex
Once i was already committed to the deal with Jorge i found that Littlerocket has a stock of bored out TB. No-one seems convinced about the effect and maybe it's dificult to prove what you feel empirically. But i felt that throttel response was definitely more spritely and torque felt improved too.
Just wierd the way the engine braking seems to disappear.
Before fitting the exhaust, my local spanner man (jobs too big for me or Ste with our limited facilities) had a go after fitting the flywheel and clutch, his comment was "that's f'ing sharp.
Lightened flywheel is a giggle! I had the clutch fitted at the same time just in case i go turbo eventually. Of course all of this stands me in good stead for a Wabbit design turbo setup next year s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Back to the flywheel - you do have to carry a few more revs when pulling away but once the clutch bites it starts forward rapidly. Pulling out of junctions can be dicey in the wet or slimey conditions, in the dry with warm tyres it's a hoot!
Like any mod I find it hard to recommend anything personally because what suits me might not suit you. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. My spanner man charged me 6 hours labour (2 men 3 hours each) for the job. But he has a great workshop and although hasn't done anything like this to and MR2 before, knows his stuff.
Looks better out of the garage Nic, it's a pity I counldn't stay any longer. s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
You'll get use to the sound especially if it's something different from the norm s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Interesting to see what the dyno's come out too, mind you if you take it to Chris he will drain every last drop of power and torque out of it.
Which flywheel and clutch did you get?
All you need now is to join the big "T" club s:D :D s:D s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Rob.
Well done Nic,
Nice to see it done you e-mails had piqued my curiosity
So what plans have you for a Wabbit Exhaust
good work wabbit.
That Janspeed system looks as good as you report it sounding!
Where did you get from and how much?
I was planning on no mods other than TTE springs, but that centre twin pipe is right up my street.
Did the Janspeed system come with both pipes shown in your photo, i.e. everything after the main exhaust manifold?
Nice job BTW s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Just answered my own question, found the Janspeed details on the Prolex link s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Was fitting difficult or was it just a case of unbolt the old and put the new on?
Is it designed to be a asthetic upgrade only or is it designed to be more freely flowing and offer some extra horses?
Cheers
You might bet a few boxster owners waving and flashing their lights from behind now!
Arf - the exhaust is priced in the £400 region with Prolex now.
It is definitely more than aesthetic, it is louder and free-er flowing.
There appears to be a cat in there and i'm not getting any engine lights or codes regarding cat malfunction. Yes - you get both parts, the backbox and the downpipe. You couldn't fit one without the other as it shifts the position of the joint.
Another improvement is it improves rear ground clearance and looks great without the rear nappy.
Fitting is a doddle - getting the old one out (without removing the bumper) is a bu**er s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Were you just standard before that?
Markiii inlet and Pre-cats removed only before this.
getting the old one out without removing the bumper wasn't that bad mate, just a bit of jiggery pokery !!
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
OK - apart from Ste's ribcage taking the weight of it coming out the bottom s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Those rubbers were a bit awkward you have to admit s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
What a coincidence - spotted (heard!) you on Monday whilst in the high street and commented to SWMBO about the twin centre exhausts.
Nice!
Well guys, no sign of the Che nor the MAP and harness.
But on friday i took the car to work - erm oops!
Mucho smeel of unburnt fuel and a fuel guage running like the hour hand of a clock - very rich and i got worried.
So i was over-fueling, which prompted me yeasterday (and today - another oops) to fit the eMu and Innovate.
OK aside from mistakes eveything is fitted and running. The eMu is a pretty handy bit of kit. You can even tell it the engine is a 1ZZ-FE and it sets itself up with default parameters to run the engine. One thing to do first is to set the throttle position sensor voltages before setting off. This appears to have solved my rich problem.
Basically because the throat of the TB is larger than standard, the butterfly has further to travel from closed to fully open. This results in the voltage feedback being quite different from the standard TB. With the eMu you can teach it the relative voltages for the throttle position and it then takes care of fueling and ignition according to the new values - the standard ECU doesn't seem able to cope with the new TB and assumes it is always open, thus over fueling the engine. This is of course all theory - but it does seem to make sense and the car is infinitely better with the eMu in place, running cooler and the innovate shows fueling is better.
The eMu also gives a huge amount of logging information which is handy to see what the engine is doing at any particular time. You can even log without the laptop attached and upload when you get home!
So the upside is that the car is now running safely and reliably.
In our upcoming next episode, we will see the following - not necesarily in this order depending on when bits turn up;
MAP sensor install and plug up to the eMu.
Innovate AFR input into the eMu for dynamic self mapping.
CHE manifold install
New bank1 sensor 2 replacement (Generic throws a 0141 on warm start but stays clear for the rest of the drive)
A visit to a rolling road for final tune up and power measurement.
Innovate AFR input into the eMu for dynamic self mapping
im loving the sound of that nick
J
Looks good Nik s:D :D s:D
I didnt realise that you got the down pipe with the Janspeed exhaust too, I was looking at getting one a few months ago, and now that I know you get a down pipe too I think that it has convinced me to get one.
Looks great Nic - I can't wait to be following this through Snowdonia s:D :D s:D
Do you think you will have been roaded and mapped before then?
Won't be dynoed by the time we go to Wales - too much on at work to get away for a tune up. Also need to find somewhere familiar with eMu tuning.
Forgot to mention, there's a Blitz LM panel filter and iridium plugs to go in too.
A word of caution - don't even consider the TB modification unless you please to run either an e-Manage or PFC, the standard ECU just cannae take any more cap'n s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Youre a bad man Wabbitkilla! s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Since reading this i've got a LR TB on the way and now back to thinking about getting the downpipe, im already working on some prices to get this baby tuned up!!
Bad man you! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Well you could still risk it - it might just be my ECU or TB that are not happy together. Another one might behave completely different.
But keep an eye on your mixture, mine gradually got worse but i think it was there all the time. It only became obvious when i fitted the freer flowing Janspeed exhaust. Saying that the engine was still pretty hot, then in warm weather our engines do get quite hot.
The instant throttle response is addictive though s:lol: :lol: s:lol: but not THAT addictive on wet slimey corners s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"A word of caution - don't even consider the TB modification unless you please to run either an e-Manage or PFC, the standard ECU just cannae take any more cap'n s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
May I disagree?
Basically a bored TB is nothing special. It's just like modifying your intake and exhaust, you allow more air to enter the engine more easily. As long as you keep your MAF in proper sized pipe and have no leaks, there should be no issues.
Yes, I do have a bored TB myself. s8) 8) s8)
Now...I'm only guessing here, but personally I believe that when you first put the ecu in a given car, it learns stuff that varies a little. Like the min and max voltages of the TPS sensor. If you change that sensor, like you probably did when you installed the bored TB, it might be different enough so that the ecu doesn't recognize the limits. It happened to me, with the new TB, the ecu never saw a voltage that it considered to be a closed throttle plate...and so it never cut the fuel, which the driver sees as a lack of engine braking or at least a very weak engine braking.
My cure was simple enough. Just reset the PFC, there's an option for it. And let it relearn the idles and whatever, including the TPS min&max positions. After that I have normal engine braking again.
Now I also know that the common understanding is that you can reset the stock ecu by keeping it off power for some minutes. We all know it clears the error codes. But since the thread below, I've always wondered if it does a full reset during that time.
m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=49169 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=49169) m
I've had that same happen to me once after that. When the stock ecu had been off the car for a year or two or so (and the PFC in). It did the same thing, which I can only think of as idle learning. Which it never does after the quick reset, which clears the error codes. Maybe you need to somehow achieve a full reset to the ecu to make it realize the new voltage for a closed throttle plate.
I'm only guessing here, so don't take anything as a fact. It's just a mix of what I've noticed myself...YMMV. s;) ;) s;)
Interesting theory Tem. I suppose it all boils down to how clever the ECU is at learning TPS max and min settings.
It may well have a range of values within which to work before it decides to throw a 'fubarred' CEL, but if you can't definitively tell it "this is Min" or "this is Max", then it won't have the information it needs to trim accordingly.
Nic's problem was just on the cusp of being occasionally OK, so I suspect his closed throttle voltage was slightly outside of any range that the ECU tolerates as acceptable within its learning routine.
But I'm just guessing too ... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I believe you are both actually right - well me too s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Tem, what you say makes sense, but my standard ECU wouldn't settle down on the bored TB. Yes the voltages from the TPS were different from standard basicall because when comparing the old to the new TB the butterfly sits vertical (90deg) when fully closed, my standard one sits at an angle away from vertical, say 85deg?
Surmising that the TPS is now not within the original range, the voltage is different. Therefore the voltage figure for fully closed will be different from standard. In fact it IS slightly higher than standard, so therefore the theory of over fueling when closed due to different from standard voltage from the TPS i think is correct.
Either way, fitting the eMu and then setting the max/min TPS voltages by learning and applying to the configuration seems to have solved the problem. Also considering the standard ECU goes through a learning cycle when reset, with the eMu in place and setup on standard mapping there is no learning period. It seems as if the eMu controls statically what the standard ECU would normally take time to learn.
So it is working, and i am happy now.
All i need now are my harnesses for MAP and AFR feeding into the eMu option ports. Plus my filter and plugs.
One question though - considering i've been running a bit rich and generating quite a bit of heat, would it be adviseable to change the oil again? I'm running Castrol Edge FS 0w30 so it might be ok.
Just been experimenting with the location for the Innovate AFR gauge, what do you guys think?
(http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6230/photo060619191ao7.jpg)
Maxbore is what we honda boys call him. My TB was bored by him. Excellent choice.
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"One question though - considering i've been running a bit rich and generating quite a bit of heat, would it be adviseable to change the oil again? I'm running Castrol Edge FS 0w30 so it might be ok.
Running rich shouldn't generate heat, quite the opposite, it cools things down. Running stoich is actually when you generate the most heat and leaner or richer cools things down. So I'm sure your oil is fine when it comes to that. s8) 8) s8)
s:oops: :oops: s:oops: Thanks Tem, I feel much better now.
A little update is in order.
The Che is fitted and i'm loud again - hopefully this noise will calm down. I now sound like a Scooby or a V8, and look a bit like a Boxster. I guess you could call me the Scoobster s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Finally the bits turned up at Hypersports - don't know what's been going on there, something to do with the orders not coming in on time. Anyway...
Blitz panel filter fitted (the one that came out was a bit, erm, dirty), and Greddy Iridium Racing Spak plugs (sounds fancy, they've got NGK on them, i wonder if pure NGK ones are cheaper?) and the ones that came out - didn't look nice at all, don't get me wrong they were a good colour - just a bit "worn" s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
So next in the game will be to fit the MAP sensor and harness it up to the eMu, and harness the WB into the eMu too. Then i can run a self map before taking it to Hypersports for a spot of Dyno work.
I try and add everything onto the garage when it's done so watch this space. It'll be interesting to see the results as i was producing 141.6bhp at the flywheel with just the Markiii inlet and no precats.
Keep us posted on the results of the tuneup. That exhaust looks excellent.
Regarding the TPS, there is a good chance that the change in throttle angle when the throttle is closed has caused the TPS contacts to run onto the end ramp giving a dead spot where output does not change for the first few degrees. This could cause the engine management to get confused.
Chris
No it seems fine, watching it on the e-manage just shows the tps starting lower and ending higher. No dead spots and it shows there's a difference as soon as you touch the pedal. All I need is to add the next bits and get it properly mapped, but in the meantime it's safe.
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"I now sound like a Scooby or a V8
Come now Nic s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
You've got to hear it to believe it s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Only in the lower revs mind, as soon as you wind them up it's back to "WHAAAAAAAH" s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Really like the exhaust. Might have to pop into Janspeed to get a quote on a custom job after all.
Any chance you posting a sound bite?
Well gents, today saw the Scoobster put on the Dyno for mapping and graphing. To recap, the current N/A spec is;
TRD Lightened Flywheel
Exedy Organic clutch
Maxbore bored and flowed throttle body
Greddy Iridium plugs
Che Manifold
Janspeed exhaust and downpipe
Greddy e-Manage Ultimate
Innovate LC1+XD16 (connected to eMu)
Castrol Edge 0w30 FS + TRD Oil Filter
Blitz panel filter in original airbox
Markiii inlet elbow.
And so to the results linky (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/garage.php?mode=view_gallery_item&image_id=348)
The before was with Markiii and Precats removed done some time ago on a dyno day.
Peak power 141.8bhp@6400rpm, Peak Torque 130lbft@3400rpm.
The after is;
Peak power 147.1bhp@6400rpm, Peak Torque 136lbft@3600rpm
Without tuning the e-Manage the torque was bu@@ered low down and it's still not ideal. Two reasons for this are, the Che flow characteristics (seen this on bikes too), and the lightened flywheel.
For comparison .. here's what I got from mine from Hypersports tuning
The peak BHP I got was 146.6 HP after the whole tune. Before the tune i had 140.3 HP.
Here's the torque: The legend tells all with the details. Peak torque is 135 (IIRC)
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5338544
I have:
Standard manifold (precatless - thanks fgrob)
H+S Dual Exhaust
H+S Downpipe
Emanage Blue
Alex inlet pipe
TRD pannel filter
Standard toyota oil
Vpower.
So very similar to Nick's.. however I've got a downpipe! and Nick has a cat. So it looks like the exhaust especially that Nick is running is very impressive! Good work Nick!
Dont know if it makes much difference or not Alex but Nick has emanage Ultimate where as you have an emanage blue
Someone with far more knowledge than me should be able to tell us tho
D
Quote from: "dpn1"Someone with far more knowledge than me should be able to tell us though
(BTW, that won't be me s:wink: :wink: s:wink: )
I believe Nic is going to have a look at the EM-U mapping to see which of its additional features were tweaked, but the bulk of the tune is based on what the EMBlue is already capable of.
Guys
Just casting an eye over this post as Nick was over with us today. His car felt nice and smooth, and gained a bnit more torque which is really nice.
From my experience with the Roadster and the available ECU's that are around is the following:
1) E Manage Blue - Great for moderate tuning, can sort out fuelling well but where the N/A's will gain power is through ignition timing. The E Manage Blue does not use a crank angle signal so the timing advance is not always that accurate.
2) E Manage Ultimate - Again, great for moderate tuning, with good fuel trimming, and this does use a crank signal for reference so is better than blue for N/A ignition advance, and thus power gains.
3) Apexi Power FC - Why I beleive the PFC is so far superior when getting better torque / power from the N/A's is the ability to optimise the inlet and exhaust cam timing, by allowing the tuner to adjust the overlap etc.
4) V Manage - Not tried yet, but in theory can control inlet / exhaust timing, plus ignition timing and fuelling.
Open to offers, to give it a go !!
Just my tuppence worth s;-) ;-) s;-)
Thanks Chris
Good answers Chris, and worth anyone considering when looking for extra power. A lesson learned is that it's not easy to bolt on power, not cheap either. But i remember watching TV programs about the land speed record and the lengths you have to go to for those extra few mph is incredible.
So for me, thankyou Chris, you worked hard today and although it appears i've been pedalling backwards i'm very happy with the result. I've learned a lot and realise there is a lot more that needs learning to do this kind of thing properly. Which is why we come to you eh s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I think i'm done for power tweeks this year, next year it looks like it's either turbo charging or maybe a decent holiday s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
One of the things i love about the eMu is its logging features - top noodle and you don't have to have the pc plugged in during logging. V-Manage? Well like both of us thought, it's a bit new and a bit untested - and maybe Turbo is better known and understood.
I'm glad i went with the eMu as i did all the installation myself (ok, you just put plugs in the right places) but i've got to know my car that bit more personally (pity i can't get to know a woman this personally, but hey ho - that's life). I'm happy with the power delivery, it is definitely better than before and now i've checked through the DynoChart, that torque figure is pretty good. I'm sure it's the manifold as i had a bike with a Yoshimura full race system on, lost the majority of torque and ended up with power at the top end - boy was that a screamer.
I've got to say Chris is definitely a top man in my book as he's not really interested in the topline figure, he works to get you a smooth response all the way through the range which is so important for driving in the real world - good on yer Chris s8) 8) s8)
Ditto chris, you did a VERY good job on my torque too!!..
V manage..hmmm.... but a quick question (and sorry to hijack your thread Nick) but is ignition timing the same as valve timing? edit... chris has already answered this..
Quote from: "northernalex"is ignition timing the same as valve timing?
No.
(Quick answer for a quick question s;) ;) s;) )
Ignition timing is when the spark fires relative to TDC
Valve timing is when the valves open & close relative to TDC
(Longer answer for a quick question s;) ;) s;) )
ahh so
Emanage blue + ultimate.. ignition timing and fueling
Vmanage .........................ignition timing, valve timing and fueling
PFC..................................ignition timing, valve timing and fueling
Camcon............................valve timing.
Unichip.............................valve timing.
Edit, I hope this is adding to the general feel of this thread.. if its too much thread drift we can carry it on in another thread.
Alex
Strictly incorrect...
linky (http://www.greddy.com/home/?id=235)
To run a v-Manage you need an e-Manage and then you have a similar package to the PFC. So i suppose you could say you're buying PFC functionality in instalments.
Not cheap though £339 on e-Bay in the UK.
No harness listed for the MR-S MR2 1ZZFE but it is listed for the 1ZZFE Corolla. I could then have a box each side to balance up the appearance inside the bins (Ste you were talking about balance remember s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ).
Stop it Alex - you're tempting me !!! s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
I believe the Unichip can do fuelling & ignition timing (but I didn't think it did valve timing) - could be wrong on that.
Personally I'd go PFC (and I will go PFC s;) ;) s;) ), with the downside that you lose the factory immobiliser, so there's added expense there.
If I wanted better than the PFC then I'd be looking at Omex or MoTeC..
Ahh Nick, it would "bolt" straight onto your ultimate (doesnt mention the blue).... hmm wonder if there would be someway to use the camcon with the emanage blue/ultimate as it seems to do a similar thing for far less money.
Edit... aaron, this is from the unichip website
Variable valve timing adjustment
Rev limit adjustment
Boost limit & level adjustment
Dual maps for use with different fuel grades & types
Water Injection
Nitrous oxide progressive injection
Bigger/supplementary injector handling
Variable induction control
Launch control for turbo vehicles
Full throttle gear changes
Road speed limiter removal
Speedo conversion for imports
Shift light
Idle speed stabilisation
Another edit!!!.. and apparantly theres "megasquirt" too.. that the mx5 guys love.
I was thinking about the Camcon and looked it up on eBay, about half the price, i wonder what Chris thinks. I think the v-Manage would just be more compatible and easier to deal with alongside an eMu. Plus i get another shiny box s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Camcon looks a bit ham-fisted by comparrison, not just its appearance, but the way it's setup
Ah - sorry Alex, yes, Unichip does fuelling & valve timing, but not ignition timing
Megasquirt - I thought about it long and hard, but right now it just doesn't have the features.. it (last time I checked) also can't control direct ignition systems like ours, so it's off the table for us.
Compared to the PFC, or even the eManage, it's a big step down - but it's good if you want a totally homebrew setup (just not on our car!)
Nic
I have to take my hat off to you mate, that's some list of goodies. I must admit I thought you would have been around my figures - you certainly should be.
I think you are spot on with regard to the Che, it's a good cheap compromise but does not take tuning very well.
Holiday - now there a thought. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Rob.
Quote from: "aaronjb"I
Personally I'd go PFC (and I will go PFC s;) ;) s;) ), with the downside that you lose the factory immobiliser, so there's added expense there.
Aaron
£95 fitted - cat 2. Better than the factory fit s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Rob.
Yes, the Che is neat and it gets rid of the pre-cats nicely (though i didn't have them). I'm glad those two big empty chambers are gone, they were just causing loud bangs. I get bangs now but they're more "tunefull", plus i've kept that great engine noise!
Plus i thought, "if i'm going to be going turbo sometime next year, why spend too much on a manifold". I like yours, but not the price tag.
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Yes, the Che is neat and it gets rid of the pre-cats nicely (though i didn't have them). I'm glad those two big empty chambers are gone, they were just causing loud bangs. I get bangs now but they're more "tunefull", plus i've kept that great engine noise!
Plus i thought, "if i'm going to be going turbo sometime next year, why spend too much on a manifold". I like yours, but not the price tag.
Yep not much point putting an expensive manifold on if you go turbo, but if you were to go supercharger s:idea: :idea: s:idea: s:idea: :idea: s:idea: s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Will you stop it - my bank manager is having fits already s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Actually reading PE's Camcon page it seems to be a useful box if configured properly. Cheaper than the v-Manage and has a PnP harness available from Boomslang. Saying that i don't need the fueling adjustment it offers, only the cam timing features.
Back to v-Manage then.
But at the end of the day, the turbo is the best way to go now. Super charger? Alas no - i don't like any of the setups i've seen so far, and i've learned so much about turbos that i'm getting to the point of no return.
GT2554R for me when i can afford it, with cast manifold link to standard exhaust connection, charge cooler and bov.
Hi Wabbitkilla,
Which manifold do you plan on using and how do you plan on linking to the stock exhaust position when you go turbo?
Quotewith cast manifold link to standard exhaust connection
Thanks,
Panek
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Actually reading PE's Camcon page it seems to be a useful box if configured properly. Cheaper than the v-Manage and has a PnP harness available from Boomslang. Saying that i don't need the fueling adjustment it offers, only the cam timing features.
Can you not control the Cam with the Ultimate outputs? I'm sure I read somewhere that it was possible.
1. Not sure on the manifold front. I'd rather obtain a cast manifold like the top secret kit has in it or a if someone else makes one that gives me enough room that I need. Zorstec have offered to make up a tubular one. Then I want a link pipe made up to connect the original exhaust interface to the turbo outlet.
2. No the eMu doesn't control valve timing, you need to couple it up to a V-Manage to do that. Which is a shame, I wonder why Greddy don't build valve timing control into the ultimate.
I suppose I might add the V-manage to my shopping list for the turbo setup, it all depends on the funding I have available at the time.
Aaaahhh peeps, I thought it was worth adding a likkle update and a warning for you all.
Disaster!!!!
Tinkering with the e-Manage i was going to start using some of those advanced features. But thought first i would make sure the software was up to date. So I downloaded v2.16 from Mohdparts and install it. I grabbed and saved the maps already in there, and then went for the upgrade.
Unfortunately the immobiliser had other plans! 50 seconds after starting the immobiliser cut the power - the e-Mu takes around 2 minutes to upgrade! erm - no more talking to the eMu! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
I tried starting up (stupidly it turns out, more later) and she ran - log a dog, so stopped, tried the upgrade manually, but every 50 seconds - off went the power and couldn't complete!
So eventually i found a 12v supply in the house, powered up the eMu and went for the upgrade again. Hey, y'now it worked and i could converse again with the beloved. All maps still present and correct - time to get back into the car.
Everything reconnected, OBDII checked for codes (none present) so I try a start up. All I get is the engine being turned over by the starter. I check all connections and eventually run the battery flat!
Still no OBDII codes! So battery off, put on charge in the house and removed the eMu and its harness so we're back on the Toyota ECU only. Reconnect a fully charged battery - same thing.
So it appears the Toyota ECU is burned. I'm guessing that the startup attempt when the eMu had corrupted software has put bad conditions on either the ignition or injector amps in the oem ecu and blown the transistors. Oh yeah, forgot to say - no fuses blown either!
PANIC s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Ok, I've been talking to some people on here who have calmed me, cheered me, and encouraged me ... cheers guys - you know who you are. Offers of oem ECU's coild packs etc, great - this is why I love this club.
Anyway, fearing the eMu has a fault, i didn't want to risk someone elses ECU, even if they're not using it now. I'll keep the offer of coild packs in reserve too.
I've now sold the boomslang harness to someone who will appreciate it and it's nice to help someone and see a little good come out of this madness.
What now you ask?
Well I figured that cost-wise it's about the same cost to replace the oem ECU and eMu and get the key codes changed on the ECU as getting an Apexi PFC.
So today, a fresh Apexi Power-FC landed on my desk, and there's a data logit on the way too. System check this weekend hopefully, and when the Data logit arrives from MWR it'll be time to try some mapping. Fingers crossed nothing is wrong anywhere else s:? :? s:?
Power with the eMu was 147.1bhp.
I wonder what it'll be with PFC adjusting valve timing too - that will be good to compare identical engine setup with different ECU's s8) 8) s8)
Hi Nic
Glad you managed to get it sorted, you should be looking at a further 10 BHP / Torque if you can get the right map.
Rob.
oh no....
Doesn't sound great pal but it seems your over the worst and have new shiny bits s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
If the datalogit is easy to connect up then your more than welcome to tea leaf the map on my Power FC next time we meet up
How much did it cost you BTW ?
Keep smiling s:D :D s:D
Hope it works out Nic - clouds and silver linings perhaps? If you get an extra 10bhp, it may have been a worthwhile palava!
Quite a bizarre chain of events Nic. s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
It'll be good to see how you get on with the PFC and datalogit - nice looking kit.
Ok some more modding has been going on.
My Apexi power intake arrived while i was in Glencoe and has now been fitted courtesey of a visit to the Spitstop. The PFC goes in on the 21st April and will be dialled in by Noble Motorsport in Chesterfield, I'll report figures that night probably.
The intake makes an interesting noise in conjunction with the exhaust. At times there's definitely more urge according to my bum and back, I'm just learning to drive with it again.
Another performance mod has been in the weight saving department - i've lost 4 stone since Jan 8th, and have another 3 1/2 ish to go s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
A set of 2's -r- us droplinks are on their way.
On the gadget front i have a Flycamone Version 2 waiting for me at the sorting office with 8GB SD card for attaching to the car and recording moments.
On the appearance front, my wheels have been off and pouder coated gloss black with clear lacquer for £35 a corner, and are fitted with JDM centre caps.
I've also finally fallen for a spoiler and fitted it.
The whole car has been treated with a make-over of 10 stage clean and wax, 8 to 12 hours intensive attention!
And there's one final addition, I'll see if you spot it and its relevance s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
So to show off, here're a few pixxures;
(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9711/image087nl3.jpg)
(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3245/image090wu5.jpg)
(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2940/image089nk4.jpg)
(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7834/image088ib2.jpg)
(http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/1132/wabbitstraightatss3.jpg)
Absolutely classic Nic s:lol: :lol: s:lol: . I was giggling my danglies off as you followed me up the motorway last night!
And now that you've gone public with it, I have to say you're looking so well now having shifted some weight. Good on you!
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Another performance mod has been in the weight saving department - i've lost 4 stone since Jan 8th, and have another 3 1/2 ish to go s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Ruddy ell man, did you hack off a leg? s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
You're putting me to shame, but well done Nic s:) :) s:)
Nic, that looks absolutely beautiful mate s8) 8) s8)
Congrats on the weight loss; that is a massive amount in a few months s:shock: :shock: s:shock: Car looks very nice indeedy s8) 8) s8)
Nic, i really did think you had lost some weight when i saw you today. but its not one of those things i would mention in case i was wrong and offended. but yeah, come to think about it, slim jim, its falling off you.
still chuckling about you waking me up this afternoon !!!!
anyhow, for the less intelligent amongst us, that dont get the plate, here is what you will see in the mirror
(http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j136/enid_b/wabbitstraightatss31.gif)
Good work chap
J
I think that it looks stunning - I thought mine was shiny - but its not as shiny as that - top job - and come on - you have to spill the beans on your weight loss - how did you do it, but guessing by the amount and the time span, a VLCD?
Looks good Nic, I like the number plate. s:D :D s:D
Did you lose the weight through sweating while you we cleaning your car? s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
That looks fantastic Nic s8) 8) s8) Good choice with the spoiler, s:wink: :wink: s:wink: I think it's the first red 2 I've seen with that type fitted before.
Ste told me about the plate on Friday it looks even better now I've seen it on the car s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Rob
thats brilliant Nic, Mark told me about it yesterday but even funnier in the flesh
All looking good Nick - including your good self!
Must admit, I wondered who the slim gent was in those pics from Scotland s:wink: :wink: s:wink: The best power to weight mod is the cheapest!
I am really looking forward to seeing / hearing your car now - surely an excuse for a mini North Wales blat??
It will only get dirty again you know s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Good work young man.
s:? :? s:? s:? :? s:? s:? :? s:? Nic,
How have you managed to lose so much bodyweight since January? I certainly wouldn't want to get a girlie type slimming section going on our ROCster site, but if you have lost that much weight so quickly, there must be a very good technique/reason. No wonder your car was going so well on the recent Scottish trip! Are you well??
Regards, S'man.
He is well S'man. In fact, I don't think we've seen him in such good form for quite some time...
I know Nic and I started it s:oops: :oops: s:oops: but [Mod] I think its probably time to draw a line under the organic modifications now and focus back on the inorganic stuff [/Mod]
I really wasn't a fan of that spoiler until I saw it in the ...erm... flesh ( s:oops: :oops: s:oops: ) Nic. But i have to say its awesome.
Now, if i can just persuade Liz to swap boot lids so I can start again...... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Thanks for all your kind comments peeps.
I'm quite well, in fact very well, haven't felt this good in years in fact.
Right, next stage sees the PFC going in this weekend coming and hopefully i'll get my calipers painted - weather permitting.
I now have a set of droplinks, and c-one anti-roll bars are on order from Dave.
I won a c-one rear strut tower brace on e-Bay (sorry if i bid against anyone here), which i'm thinking of having coated in the same red/black colour scheme i used on the front Cusco.
Acceleration is at times kick-ass, and the glorious noise of Apexi intake and Janspeed together is simply awesome. A Golf GTi seemed to be upset on the way home s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Quote from: "spit"Now, if i can just persuade Liz to swap boot lids so I can start again...... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I'd be up for that, but you can't have my TTE fan - I wubs it! s:) :) s:) ....and Steve would have to polish the rest of my car to match your boot!
Nic I love that number plate its just soooo cool s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Car looks great....oh and so do you btw s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Lynne s:P :P s:P
Poor Wabbits... They won't have a chance s:( :( s:(
Love the car Nic... coming along nicely s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Nic the car looks fantastic and I love the number plate.
fantastic
Quote from: "kanujunkie"thats brilliant Nic, Mark told me about it yesterday but even funnier in the flesh
Yeah likewise, couldn't quite picture it when mark was telling us about it but it looks pretty cool in the pic! loving the shiney look.. s:D :D s:D
Well i've now spent a pretty boring day in Chesterfield.
Stayed overnight and took the car to Noble Motorsport for 9am.
Handed over the keys and had a chat with the chap who was going to install my Apexi Power FC and tune it.
Then went for a walk into town.
The market was on so i had a sniff around and then went to visit nearly every shop in town. Bought a pair of shades to replace the always getting broken pair i've just binned. Had lunch at a health food place i used to visit and got more bored, so wandered back to sit in Nobles waiting area and read about fast fords and classic racing cars. This place is tidy, clean, has plenty of room in the workshop which had a classic Merc in a corner, a Triumph Stag lifted up for front suspension work and find a water leak, a Turboed Astra GTE, a C Class Merc getting chipped and away over the far side i could hear my baby screaming behind a cinder block wall. There's only so many mags you can read before boredom sets in again, and i wandered around the collection of Sti's, a Noble M12 and a Nissan 350Z, a Nissan Almera Turbo etc in the car park. The sun was out and it was perfect topless driving weather.
At 4:30 a strangely quietly red MR2 comes around to the doors and hey, hang on a minute someone's tamed the beast. The PFC is in situ and the full day is gone on setting it up. Now i've never been convinced about the PFC, I was a Greddy man - until i blew a fuse! s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
I'm rather glad i blew that fuse now, because the figures are in.....
da da daaah
(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3466/scan0804210001oy9.jpg)
Yes boys & girls - that IS 163.8 Normally aspirated bhp!! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
I'm now home and i can say driveability is hugely improved, acceleration is progressive and smooth and i can now safely bimble at 30mph in 4th - wow! Oh and i no longer have a barking mad exhaust note and can cruise on the motorway without the assistance of earplugs.
What d'you think? Is that good??? Eh, eh, is it???
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Oh and i no longer have a barking mad exhaust note
s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
However, that is some serious power so I think I'll let you off. Terrific numbers Nic! s:D :D s:D
Congratulations Nic.. excellent figures s:D :D s:D
I hope mine drives as good as you say yours does... Nobles must be getting good with Roadsters now lol.
Very impressive Nic s8) 8) s8)
Fantastic figures Nic...!! looks amazing!!
Alex
hmm I reckon with cams, zero manifold, PPE intake and flywheel you coudl get that damn close to 200 :-) :-) :-)
I was blessed with a pax ride from Nic as he detoured on his way home tonight. s8) 8) s8) .... and we did mention cams more than once Mark s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Wow!! The way his car feels now is absolutely stunning. Turbo kick is a hoot, but the way that this n/a just nudges you consistently from pootle to redline is something I miss.
The exhaust still has that urgent growl to it, but the sharp rasp that used to be there has been replaced with a more rounded tone.
Very, very impressed.
Hey Nic welcome to the club s:D :D s:D s:wink: :wink: s:wink: I thought you already had a different fly wheel.
What did they say about the torque, can it be improved with a different manifold / cams etc ?????
Rob
Quote from: "markiii"hmm I reckon with cams, zero manifold, PPE intake and flywheel you coudl get that damn close to 200 :-) :-) :-)
Food for thought, current spec which gave this result is;
Apexi Power intake
Bored and flowed throttle body
Greddy Iridium spark plugs
Che Manifold
Janspeed full exhaust
TRD lightened flywheel.
Apexi PowerFC
No more power mods this year i think, handling mods are planned.
I'm pretty pleased with power and delivery for now, i was astonished when i saw the sheet. But remember this engine produced 141.6bhp with just the Markiii pipe! Current mileage is 41000, an still doesn't use a drop of oil (touch wood), but weeps a little from the cam chain tensioner - something i need to tackle soon.
Quote from: "FGRob"Hey Nic welcome to the club s:D :D s:D s:wink: :wink: s:wink: I thought you already had a different fly wheel.
What did they say about the torque, can it be improved with a different manifold / cams etc ?????
Rob
I was too taken aback to talk about that side.
But he said to keep in touch and we can look at what's the next stage.
They do a fair amount of fabrication, they developed the engine and twin turbo setup for the Noble M12 so they are pretty handy. They even have a Ford V6 sat in the entrance with twin turboes mounted - just for display.
I love the sound now even more because it is bearable. Thing is, i wouldn't want to sacrifice it now for a wheel in the pipe (Turbo s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ). Maybe cams, maybe supercharger, if anyone ever produces one that is "mount and forget".
Mine did the same when it was re-mapped - the engine sound is correct for the power / speed you are travelling at - if you know what I mean. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
In otherwords you have it tuned to your set-up and that's why your exhaust sound is better - this is what makes the PFC so much better than a piggy back.
Enjoy.
Rob
Quote from: "FGRob"Mine did the same when it was re-mapped - the engine sound is correct for the power / speed you are travelling at - if you know what I mean. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
In otherwords you have it tuned to your set-up and that's why your exhaust sound is better - this is what makes the PFC so much better than a piggy back.
Can't agree more Rob - when you think of all that wasted energy in noise! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Oh, forgot to mention - engine idles beautifully OPEN LOOP, much better than closed loop on the OEM ecu.
Good graphs s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Oh, forgot to mention - engine idles beautifully OPEN LOOP, much better than closed loop on the OEM ecu.
So they leave O2 feedback turned off full-time, then?
Yup s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Interesting - any ideas why? Do they tune only with the base map and ignore the Inj map, perhaps? (Which would break O2 feedback)
Otherwise I can't see why you'd want it off - it only affects cells where the Inj Map specifies a stoic air/fuel ratio.
They're running tick over at a little rich, it's so the engine is prepared for acceleration. Works too, little chance of stalling unless you're particularly ham-footed, and down changes are smoother too.
Don't ask me how they did it, they were in a separate room out of view (but you could hear him working) and i'm a bit of a novice when it comes to the PFC. I believe he set it up using his AFR wideband, or lambda and left it at that. AFR does vary a little on tick-over, but revs stay stable. So it looks like closed loop is trimming, but it's definitely turned off. Velly intelesting!
I just can't get over how smooth it all is, wonderful!
Ahh - interesting, mine likes to idle around 13:1, too, rather than 14.7:1 (where it's very lumpy) - not very good for trying to pass an MOT, unfortunately!
The AFR will swing a little if you have "Idle-IG Cntrl" enabled as this will try and maintain a stable idle through changing the ignition advance (and changing the ignition advance will alter the apparent AFR in the exhaust stream). I have that turned off at the moment, because it's nigh on impossible to set the idle AFR with it turned on (because two things are always making adjustments to the AFR) - and I'll turn it back on once I'm done.
Hmm, Nic after seeing your mods listed again I have similar
PPE intake (which is the A'pexi)
De-cat manifold
Downpipe (H+S)
Cat Back (H+S)
So PFC/Zero manifold/Modified throttle body?
And I should get similar figures?
Actually, sod it, I'll just get it painted RED. Red cars are faster anyway arnt they? s:) :) s:)
Alex
I tell you Alex I wouldn't believe the PFC was this good - you have to experience it to realise it is worth the extra money over the Greddy stuff.
Of course EVERYONE knows all cars are faster in red s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
It would be interesting to see the difference on paper between the PPE and Apexi intakes - just remember my flywheel s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
PFC = s8) 8) s8)
Great figures Nic (both sets s:wink: :wink: s:wink: )
Welcome to the PFC club
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"I tell you Alex I wouldn't believe the PFC was this good - you have to experience it to realise it is worth the extra money over the Greddy stuff.
Of course EVERYONE knows all cars are faster in red s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
It would be interesting to see the difference on paper between the PPE and Apexi intakes - just remember my flywheel s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
SHould the flywheel make any difference to the bhp/torque?
Now I need to start sourcing bits s:) :) s:)
The flywheel affects torque - i.e. it reduces torque to achieve quicker rpm achievement. It allows for slicker gear changes.
The free running rev response is akin to revving a bike engine, very quick changes in engine speed.
Nic
What do you think the torque would have been with a normal flywheel??
I suppose the question is what do you want, grunt / pull out of a corner or a faster responding engine with lower torque.
But saying that I have noticed that my engine does respond a lot quicker with the C-one damper on it and the cam noise is pure music s:D :D s:D s:D :D s:D
What's your average knocks so far Nic ???
Rob
Hmm..
On my last dyno with the greddy emanage I got a peak torque of around 135 which is the same value as Nics with the PFC and the lightened flywheel.
Think I prefer the "grunt" myself (certainly lost lots of it when I've put my car back to stock ish for the mot)
Alex
If you come on the 17th you should be able to try both cars for comparison or even 3 cars if Danny comes as well. I think Danny's running about 153 ftlbs and I'm running about 150 ftlbs - I think we need your timing skills and a long stretch of road s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Rob.
Quote from: "FGRob"If you come on the 17th you should be able to try both cars for comparison or even 3 cars if Danny comes as well. I think Danny's running about 153 ftlbs and I'm running about 150 ftlbs - I think we need your timing skills and a long stretch of road s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Rob.
And my completely dull, standard, low mileage car will be a fine 'control' for the sample.
Great work Nic, you must be thrilled. Are you no longer an asbo at idle?
Quote from: "FGRob"What's your average knocks so far Nic ???
Rob
Tell me how to check and i'll have a look on the commander. I'm just scared of touching it when it's running so well.
I was surprised when exiting a swooping roundabout and rising up to the M56 the slingshot sensation was funny. Might not have the torque of you guys on paper but she is bloody quick!
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Quote from: "FGRob"What's your average knocks so far Nic ???
Rob
Tell me how to check and i'll have a look on the commander. I'm just scared of touching it when it's running so well.
I was surprised when exiting a swooping roundabout and rising up to the M56 the slingshot sensation was funny. Might not have the torque of you guys on paper but she is bloody quick!
Easier to describe over the phone mate and you can only do it whilst the car is running.
It gives you a maximum knock value since you started the car - once you add it to the list of things to view on the commander
give me a call, you've still got my number
I have got a full english manual for it if you want a copy Nic.
Right I'm sat in the car now
press prev a couple of times til you get back to the front screen that just says
monitor
settings
etc.
highlight monitor and then press next
highlight how many channels (signals) you want to monitor (I usually have 4) then press next
use up and down to get to the number you want to edit (lets do 1 first)
highlight the number and press right (it should highlight the word as well now) use up and down to move the number and the highlight section to the channel (signal) you want to monitor. Then press left to select it
then press next and it will appear on the list
EDIT* Nic called just as I was finishing typing this but I'd got that far I couldnt delete it
Cheers for the advice Danny, i've been for a half hour dash, mix of hilly roads and steady Kipton bypass. Knock reached 30 and no more. max intake temperate 30c, but went between 25c and 30c. Easily launching off the top of rises going up hill s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Always a pleasure mate - have fun s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
You might have missed Rob's comment (last one on the previous page) but he has a full english version of the instruction manual
Quote from: "Chris_h"And my completely dull, standard, low mileage car will be a fine 'control' for the sample.
see chris, i always knew you had the purist in you too !!!!
nice to see the progress is still coming with this little puppy nick, i wanna hear this new subdued noise, hell i even want to ride in it.
J
hmm sounds like an impressive setup you've got going on there Nic..
I might have to reconsider the whole flywheel and TB thing... s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "enid_b"Quote from: "Chris_h"And my completely dull, standard, low mileage car will be a fine 'control' for the sample.
see chris, i always knew you had the purist in you too !!!!
nice to see the progress is still coming with this little puppy nick, i wanna hear this new subdued noise, hell i even want to ride in it.
J
I've got the 0-60 gps thingy on me phone - could be interesting s:) :) s:) Anyone know any private roads s:) :) s:)
Alex
Well guys after the excitement of last month i now have some more additions...
A C-One rear strut tower brace i got off ebay and have had epoxy coated in my usual scheme (sorry Russ)
(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9926/imgp0082pn5.jpg)
That's it for performance mods, but after seeing the video that Dan took while we were in Scotland i thought it would be handy to have something ready for when were all out enjoying ourselves, so ....
(http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/2633/imgp0095eo6.jpg)
Can you see the camera?
(http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/3442/imgp0096wf1.jpg)
There it is!
And the recorder / display is bottom right...
(http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/8514/imgp0097ji9.jpg)
Where did you buy this camera? And how much did you pay?
Maplin (http://www.maplin.co.uk/newsletter/08P05-3.htm) and it was £150.
It takes 2GB SD Flash card which give you 166mins of filming.
I have tried a 4GB card and it seemed happy with that too - Sandisc Ultra II.
Flash cards are dead cheap from w www.7dayshop.com (http://www.7dayshop.com) w right now.
The only problem with it, it doesn't allow charging while in use from a usb adaptor in the car, i'll just have to see how long the battery lasts. But it is a neat little unit.
<edit> forgot to mention i had to make an extension for the cable due to the distance betwixt camera and recorder. It's 2.5mm 4 way jacks so the only place i could find them was at Farnell.
Right it has been a while and i've not said much.
A few things have happened since the last update...
1. A toe in adjuster was found to be siezed in place when i went for an alignment check.
It turned out the OSR toe in adjuster had welded itself to the bush in the suspension arm.
We ended up damaging the rear subframe and literally burning and cutting out the adjuster and bush.
Which meant replacing the adjusters and toe in control arms with Mega Racing arms, courtesy of FGrob - many thanks for the loan!
2. It was found that there was a serious amount of negative camber on the rear wheels.
I worked out that the rear shocks were beginning to collapse and camber was increasing with mileage and time.
Meaning the tyres were to end up like this...
(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5166/image006dn7.jpg)
So i decided to get a replacement rear subframe and replace all the lower suspension arms with adjustable Megan arms to allow proper adjustment of the rear cambers. However i wasn't aware of the rear shocks failing at the time. The rear end progressibly got sloppy and something had to be done. I considered my options for suspension upgrade as i was already going to be pulling the back end apart anyway. Choices choise.
Tein Superstreets ... around £800
K-Sport coilovers .... around £710
BC Coilovers ......... £649 inc vat.
Spoke to K-Sport UK, who happen to be Apex performance about 15 minutes drive from where i work.
They recommended the Apex performance coild overs (which are actually the BC coilovers).
Being of Scottish and Yorkist descent, i decided on the BC's, they would turn up with 10 days as opposed to the K-Sport 15 days.
They were ordered and a deposit paid.
A bit of a mistake was made and MKII coilovers were delivered, but 5 days after that i had my MKIII coilovers in my hands and i prayed for good weather to work in the back lane, and booked friday off work.
(http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/8280/image005bm8.jpg)
So i looked up the destructions on our friendly Spyderchat for fitting them, and it all seems dinky do, easy to do - so i did.
You have the right tools, nothing special i add, and this is easy - surprisingly easy, i love working on this car.
All bolts came lose easily and i measured up and slotted in the BC's one side at a time.
(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6827/imgp1510to5.jpg)
Ably assisted by my quality control manager
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/1616/imgp1511qt8.jpg)
(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/4835/imgp1512fv7.jpg)
I had to take the wheels off a few times and readjust to a height that suited my eye, and try the car out in between to get the suspension to settle after being jacked up. But quality control expert said it was good...
(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2466/imgp1515lm6.jpg)
More cutting of the frunk plastics was required to reach the compression and rebound adjustors...
(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1571/imgp1516gp5.jpg)
(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2737/imgp1517zq9.jpg)
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/6641/imgp1518au3.jpg)
Around the back obviously i don't have that problem...
(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5439/imgp1519az8.jpg)
(http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3406/imgp1520fd9.jpg)
(http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6154/imgp1521lk1.jpg)
There are 32 levels of adjustment between hard and soft.
This must be for multiple uses as these schocks are of monotube design and therefore the same in all applications, just with different mounts wound on.
8 from soft seems just about right / bearable s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quality control confirmed the job was done
(http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/699/imgp1509zg1.jpg)
And i paid her off with half a tin of tuna.
It seems both Ste and i have recently been adopted by cats, we're proxy homes for them s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Aaaanyway, the following day i was at Charlesworth (great guys) and replaced my subframe with the new powder coated one and put all the rest of the Megan Racing adjustable arms in. Absolutely everything is pillowball mounted now!
This weekend had me over to Demon Tweeks who fitted new rear tyres, nitrogen fill all around, and setup the geometry and alignment, stating they have only ever seen ONE other car with perfect alignment like mine.
The result??
My car handles like a dream, it is simply stunning how sure footed it all is, the grip is phenominal - i really can't praise it highly enough.
I love the new stance and height of it, and well, it's just perfect.
I think i will leave it alone and enjoy it for the time being - at least until next year (there is something else in the pipeline)
Nice.
My wife wants a word with you about why you've added 'new suspension' to the top of my christmas list.
Jason
Looks sweet mate and I'm not on about the cute cat.
Nice one Nic.
You will get to enjoy it even more once everything as settled, you are right the difference in grip is massive s:D :D s:D s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Rob
Looks excellent Nic - whole car looks beautiful - and I wish I had the time/money/knowledge to do it all on my car.. very jelous!
All the best,
Alex
PS cool cat!
Looking good. What spring rates did you get with the coilovers?
Chris
Quote from: "ChrisGB"Looking good. What spring rates did you get with the coilovers?
Chris
Many thanks Chris, they're 5KG/7KG.
Looking good Nic,
Look forward to hearing more of your thoughts re how it drives...
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Quote from: "ChrisGB"Looking good. What spring rates did you get with the coilovers?
Chris
Many thanks Chris, they're 5KG/7KG.
Interesting. The USA market BCs came with either 4/6 - 6/8 - 8/10kg/mm. I went for the 4/6 and they are "firm". They really do control body movement well though and the cornering speeds that can be had are grin inducing s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
I have found the damping can be wound up a bit as they wear in. Mine are currently at a firm 15 rear 5 front for road use.
Chris
Quote from: "ChrisGB"I have found the damping can be wound up a bit as they wear in. Mine are currently at a firm 15 rear 5 front for road use.
Chris
Chris
Which way is making the firm ride - 0 solid or 0 soft????
If 15 is softer than 5 that's still some difference - do you find that stable??
Rob
Quote from: "FGRob"Quote from: "ChrisGB"I have found the damping can be wound up a bit as they wear in. Mine are currently at a firm 15 rear 5 front for road use.
Chris
Chris
Which way is making the firm ride - 0 solid or 0 soft????
If 15 is softer than 5 that's still some difference - do you find that stable??
Rob
Hi Rob
I rate it as clicks up from soft, so fully soft = 0, fully hard = 32.
The settings are quite noticeably different for relatively small adjustments on the BCs. I found that when new, anything more than 4 front and 6 rear was simply too hard and the car would hop. With them running in and the warmer weather thinning the oil down a little, harder settings seem to work well. Something that I am contemplating long term is a move to a nicer quality damper, maybe KW or similar, but the BCs are still proving very good and the car is a joy to drive.
The MR2 does not work its front dampers particularly hard as most of the mass is at the back. I find that the car can be quite bouncy at the back end sometimes, so run it with plenty of damping. The bounce actually seems to be set off by the engine movement. A set of Kirks mounts should fix that. It is only really a problem just at the edge of what the RS2s provide grip wise when I am accelerating hard out of a bend and was similarly a problem on stock suspension also.
Next money for modding has now materialised (I sold the Fabia vRS), so just trying to decide what is next?
Chris
Quote from: "ChrisGB"I rate it as clicks up from soft, so fully soft = 0, fully hard = 32.
The settings are quite noticeably different for relatively small adjustments on the BCs. I found that when new, anything more than 4 front and 6 rear was simply too hard and the car would hop. With them running in and the warmer weather thinning the oil down a little, harder settings seem to work well. Something that I am contemplating long term is a move to a nicer quality damper, maybe KW or similar, but the BCs are still proving very good and the car is a joy to drive.
The MR2 does not work its front dampers particularly hard as most of the mass is at the back. I find that the car can be quite bouncy at the back end sometimes, so run it with plenty of damping. The bounce actually seems to be set off by the engine movement. A set of Kirks mounts should fix that. It is only really a problem just at the edge of what the RS2s provide grip wise when I am accelerating hard out of a bend and was similarly a problem on stock suspension also.
Next money for modding has now materialised (I sold the Fabia vRS), so just trying to decide what is next?
Chris
That works in reverse to the Tein then 0 hard 16 soft.
I'm running pretty much equal front to back at the moment, and yes sometimes the back does like to lift the front, don't get much engine movement now, which makes for an interesting drive if you get it wrong with the throttle s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
I've looked at those KW's the Variant 3 - all stainless steel very nice - pretty dam expensive.
Thanks
Rob
Interesting that you guys are running different settings front and back.
I'd never thought of that - something i'll obviously be trying as i get used to them
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Interesting that you guys are running different settings front and back.
I'd never thought of that - something i'll obviously be trying as i get used to them
I found that, with the 4/6 springs at least, the compression damping goes up too stiff to run the fronts harder than around 8. Even on track, the stiffest I ran was 10 front 16 rear. It was quicker and turned in harder with 6 or 7 front though, so that is how it has stayed. Have fun experimenting, but do remember, damping is not there to tune out body roll in transitions, so if you find you are running so stiff that you start to change the balance of the car, you need to back off the damping a bit. The balance and roll stiffness is the job of the springs.
Chris
Quote from: "ChrisGB"Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Interesting that you guys are running different settings front and back.
I'd never thought of that - something i'll obviously be trying as i get used to them
I found that, with the 4/6 springs at least, the compression damping goes up too stiff to run the fronts harder than around 8. Even on track, the stiffest I ran was 10 front 16 rear. It was quicker and turned in harder with 6 or 7 front though, so that is how it has stayed. Have fun experimenting, but do remember, damping is not there to tune out body roll in transitions, so if you find you are running so stiff that you start to change the balance of the car, you need to back off the damping a bit. The balance and roll stiffness is the job of the springs.
Chris
Cheers - and my uprated ARB's s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Quote from: "ChrisGB"Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Interesting that you guys are running different settings front and back.
I'd never thought of that - something i'll obviously be trying as i get used to them
I found that, with the 4/6 springs at least, the compression damping goes up too stiff to run the fronts harder than around 8. Even on track, the stiffest I ran was 10 front 16 rear. It was quicker and turned in harder with 6 or 7 front though, so that is how it has stayed. Have fun experimenting, but do remember, damping is not there to tune out body roll in transitions, so if you find you are running so stiff that you start to change the balance of the car, you need to back off the damping a bit. The balance and roll stiffness is the job of the springs.
Chris
Cheers - and my uprated ARB's s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
He he, the harder the springs, the less the ARBs get to do I suppose? I would guess it corners very flat now?
Chris
In scavenge mode, did you sell your Tein springs NIc?
No I haven't, need spring compressors to remove them.
Of course if someone were to make an offer I may be tempted s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I'm very impressed by the install and very interested in the ride height adjustment that doesn't compromise the spring travel. I may have to look at these more closely.
getting quite tempted by the BCs now too...ugh...more money that I don't need to be spending! s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
Car looks cool mate.
How do you find the janspeed mate? Noise/throttle response etc?
I was thinking of getting one at some point...
Uh ... loud s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Erm, it is pretty loud, but mainly for people following you.
You can drive quietly if you're not too keen on the throttle, but you're just pootling along then.
Under load / acceleration is when it's at it's loudest, and cruising at around 80mph / 3200-3300rpm you get a subtle "hhhooooooooooooooooo" like an F1 car - very amusing when going through tunnels s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
m http://media.putfile.com/Supercharged-MR2-Dyno (http://media.putfile.com/Supercharged-MR2-Dyno) m
Like this but without the wooshing s:D :D s:D
Arggg dynos scare me....they have only ever given me BAD news!
The thing is with dynos, the truth is a bitter pill to swallow.
Quote from: "custardavenger"The thing is with dynos, the truth is a bitter pill to swallow.
Not in my case s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Just a wee update...
Crower Stage I cams are now in my hands waiting for a suitable time to fit.
Zero exhaust manifold is on order (but he's been suspiciously quiet, i better check up on progress there).
Then just waiting for adequate finances to fit it all and go back to Noble for a re-map. s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Enjoy s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
So an update after a long time.
As you know I bought a set of Crower Stage1 cams from SJSpitz.
Plus i'm concerned about not having a catalyst for MOT.
Soooo....
I bought a high flow catalyst (metalic foil type) 200Cell/metre squared.
So i had that welded into the Janspeed exhaust in place of the resonator box.
I've fitted a Zero manifold (which eventually turned up).
I've fitted the stage1 cams, courtesey of the Spitstop - many thanks to Ste and Danny.
And today i've been to Noble
(http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5946/noble231109am.jpg)
Beautiful curves Nic, nice one! s:D :D s:D
Is that 170 or 169 on the power side? And please tell me you haven't lost that awesome noise by fitting the cat?
Hey Nic - Welcome to the club s:D :D s:D s:D :D s:D You beat me by 0.4 BHP s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
What I don't understand is the torque differences, your set-up is almost identical now yet the torque curve is very different, did Noble say why, I'll post my graph if you want and you will see what I mean. Do you think its because of mileage or could it be different engine design with the later model????????
The main thing is enjoy it, they are great when they are on full song s:D :D s:D s:D :D s:D
Rob.
Exhaust tone is now different and noist s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
I'm thinking torque is down because the exhaust is too free flowing., but at least i pass emissions mow! Talked to them about the next stage... they seam to be hopeful for further increases from that.
TBH he and i are not that impressed by the Crowers. Msybe you need to take a leap to Stage2 to get a decent response!
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Exhaust tone is now different and noist s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
I'm thinking torque is down because the exhaust is too free flowing., but at least i pass emissions mow! Talked to them about the next stage... they seam to be hopeful for further increases from that.
TBH he and i are not that impressed by the Crowers. Msybe you need to take a leap to Stage2 to get a decent response!
I'm not going any further with mine, I thought about stage 2 but you would need head work to really get the most out of them and I don't think the cost is worth it. Do you really think the exhaust is losing you torque, even with the new cat in place, I thought it would have gone up. You seem to be missing the kick at 4500 rpm.
Congrats Nic on getting the most powerful N/A car in the club. Most powerful PROVEN car should I say s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Lol
You can tell who your ex-mates are s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
sorry s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Quote from: "DannyN"sorry s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Group hug s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Bah! A january dyno run for Rob will sort his signature out.
Well done Nic on your figures. Next up it must be Danny's turn to remap and break the N/A record again
Phil
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"I'm thinking torque is down because the exhaust is too free flowing., but at least i pass emissions mow! Talked to them about the next stage... they seam to be hopeful for further increases from that.
TBH he and i are not that impressed by the Crowers. Msybe you need to take a leap to Stage2 to get a decent response!
My first though is that your PFC was originally set up for no cat, different manifold and cams, so cam timing could do with a tweak in the midrange. You are making less torque through the mid than I am with a relatively torque light 4 into 1 manifold with no cat. The too free flowing thing is unlikely.
Stage 2 cams will need the head to come off as you need to uprate the valve springs and possibly the collets. No idea how high the stock bottom end can be revved, but from memory the stage 2s work up around 7500rpm.
Chris
The thought occurred to me afterwards about the head coming off, so maybe not stage2 cams then s:lol: :lol: s:lol: . So i only have 0ne trick left and that's going to take a fair bit of development.
Ok then why the difference in performance, the only difference between the two engines is external stuff - the exhaust, from the manifold back, as Nic is now running a Zero and the induction system, I'm running a standard airbox with a Markiii pipe plus a modified induction pipe from the TB to airbox (Samco large elbow and an alloy straight pipe) and this is the results:
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h70/FGRob/Dynoplot-MR208-10-09.jpg)
I think what you have said Chris makes me totally confused now, s:? :? s:? s:? :? s:? is it something to do with the revised pistons on the later model car, this was mentioned at Hypersport when the car was first dyno'd after the PFC and cams were fitted - compared to Danny set-up that is. Could it be age related, my cars only done 16500 miles not sure what Nic as done, it would be good to understand this because it will give people a better idea of what mods really does benefit the cars.
I hope you don't mind this post Nic, please feel free to remove it if you think it's too far off topic.
Thanks
Rob
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"The thought occurred to me afterwards about the head coming off, so maybe not stage2 cams then s:lol: :lol: s:lol: . So i only have 0ne trick left and that's going to take a fair bit of development.
Hypersport could actually fit a stage 2, they had a device that filled the chamber with compressed air which then allowed the springs to be removed without removing the head - it's a pity they've gone.
I'd still want some porting done to really benefit the mod so it becomes an expensive mod, plus you will have a lumpy car during tickover as the cams are not so smooth in the lower RPM.
For what it's worth the Crower Stage 2 FI cams still run smooth at tick over.
Quote from: "FGRob"Ok then why the difference in performance, the only difference between the two engines is external stuff - the exhaust, from the manifold back, as Nic is now running a Zero and the induction system, I'm running a standard airbox with a Markiii pipe plus a modified induction pipe from the TB to airbox (Samco large elbow and an alloy straight pipe) and this is the results:.....
I think what you have said Chris makes me totally confused now, s:? :? s:? s:? :? s:? is it something to do with the revised pistons on the later model car, this was mentioned at Hypersport when the car was first dyno'd after the PFC and cams were fitted - compared to Danny set-up that is. Could it be age related, my cars only done 16500 miles not sure what Nic as done, it would be good to understand this because it will give people a better idea of what mods really does benefit the cars.
A bit more explanation. The PFC was originally set up with a Che manifold and no cat. The Che manifold is a fairly long / narrow primary pipe set up. The Zero is a short / wide primary pipe setup with larger secondary entries as well. Running no cat moves the toque peak too as this is effectively running a longer last section of the exhaust manifold. Putting a cat in makes the last pipe shorter in effect.
With the PFC, part of the way the mid range gains are made is by altering the vvti characteristics. The engine in stock form is a strange thing if you are used to "traditional" engines. A traditional non vvti 1.8L engine with this sort of stroke could be tuned to produce quite a strong mid range, but a poor top end. Alternatively, you could aim to go for a good top end (not normally the thing to do with a long stroke motor) but midrange would be poor. What vvti does is allow relatively harsh cams and long durations to be used (which would normally kill midrange and give good top end) but, by altering the amount of valve overlap, still keep the midrange good. We see this on the stock motor. Without vvti, I would expect you could have the 138bhp or the 130lb/ft of torque, but not both. Without vvti, I would guess you would be pegged to around 110lb/ft if you wanted the 138bhp or you could have the 130lb/ft but maybe only 120bhp.
Where the PFC was originally set up, I wonder if the Che manifold and other factors meant that the vvti settings in the mid range were optimised for these parts, which seem optimised for mid range power. Now the Zero manifold and cams are in place, you would need to be very lucky to have a suitable level of valve overlap in the midrange. The Zero manifold also looks more focussed on top end (although the mid is very strong too) I would suggest trying some valve timing adjustment with the PFC.
Something is amiss for sure. I am making more midrange on stock cams and Unichip Q (without vvti wired up) through the PPE 4 into 1 manifold (known for less than spectacular mid range) and on 60,000+ miles. Something else that is a clue is in the sound. When it is all working together, the intake will be subject to a pulse from the exhaust which gives a nice crisp induction noise. If it is sounding a little flat, it could be the inlet valve is closing before or a long way after the exhaust pulse is reaching the inlet tract. If so, you will lose power where this is happening.
Tuning is literally that. Making the whole system "ring" together. Valve timing is very important in this.
Chris
The other factor you do need to take into consideration is the different dyno machines, this is the first time that both our cars have been on the same machine, not sure what dyno you used Chris so I wouldn't read to much into your differences - look at the drop I experienced when I checked the plots from Hypersport compared with Noble.
Interesting comment about the sound though, never thought of it that way before, but then again I've got a different sound due to the C-One engine damper.
Rob.
Quote from: "FGRob"The other factor you do need to take into consideration is the different dyno machines, this is the first time that both our cars have been on the same machine, not sure what dyno you used Chris so I wouldn't read to much into your differences - look at the drop I experienced when I checked the plots from Hypersport compared with Noble.
Interesting comment about the sound though, never thought of it that way before, but then again I've got a different sound due to the C-One engine damper.
Rob.
It is the shape of the torque curve that is surprising. The 1zz is a fairly asthmatic engine with good mid range, but always a drop off at the top end. This one is showing a steady climb to the top end. If you look between 3000 and 4500 rpm, the differences are pretty large. Your graph is showing a pretty much normal curve (though higher up than most N/A cars out there). Nic's graph shows an unfamiliar shape for this engine. The earlier graph for the same car running pre Zero manifold and Cams is as would be expected. Seeing as ignition timing will have been optimised and would be little affected by a change of cams, likewise with mixture across the rev range, the most obvious place to look is with valve timing.
I very much doubt that anything is mechanically wrong. The engine is making good torque higher up and if it were a mechanical issue, or any kind of electrical or fuelling fault, that would be very unlikely.
Chris
Of course one difference this time is that i specified i wanted to pass emissions... if that makes a difference.
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Of course one difference this time is that i specified i wanted to pass emissions... if that makes a difference.
Really should not in any way.
Ok, if this in the wrong place or drifts too much then please move or delete.
The mods described here are the sort of thing I'm looking to do to my 2. I was thinking of doing up an old classic and then realised that I was probably driving something that was worth keeping (feel free to be sick at this point). What I'm looking for is a successful menu of what to do to an n/a engine. In my days with the 'A' series it would have been:
100 thou off the head
larger inlet valves / stronger springs
731 higher lift / longer duration cam
bunch of bananas free flow exhaust matched to the head
Webber carb
There may be more but I can't remember, but would get towards 100bhp (yes really).
What I've got is:
bog standard engine
che manifold
generic unichip
induction kit
What I'm after is a proven menu like the 'A' series one that gives 'x' hp / torque from n/a modifications. The cam mod looks good and maybe the head needs to come off, the inlet and exhaust may need modification etc but if someone can outline a package then great. I guess that all of the info is in the replies and Chris's review in particular gives choices in terms of what you want from the car.
So menus please or tell me to go forth
This should be moved as it is drifting markedly.
Quote from: "mrzwei"What I'm looking for is a successful menu of what to do to an n/a engine. In my days with the 'A' series it would have been:
100 thou off the head
There is nowhere near enough space above the piston to do this, but there is some room. Gain would be relatively small compared to cost.
Quote from: "mrzwei"larger inlet valves / stronger springs
The engine is long stroke / relatively narrow bore. The valve seats are specially designed and very narrow. There is little room in the head to make a significant gain in valve size. Reprofiled valves may be an option.
Quote from: "mrzwei"731 higher lift / longer duration cam
Crower is the known option here. Stage 1 for mid range and some top end benefit. Seems to be around 5 - 10bhp gain with fat midrange, stock valve springs, stock rev limit (or near). Stage 2 and 3 give progressively more power at higher revs. Valve springs need changing and some sort of ecu rev limit change, and probably beefed up rods and pistons, particularly for stage 3.
Quote from: "mrzwei"bunch of bananas free flow exhaust matched to the head
Two best options for power are the Zero and the PPE. Zero is 4 into 2 into 1, UK sourced stainless steel, PPE is 4 into 1 USA sourced ceramic coated mild steel.
Quote from: "mrzwei"Webber carb
All done with wires and computers these days.
Quote from: "mrzwei"What I've got is:
bog standard engine
che manifold
generic unichip
induction kit
What I'm after is a proven menu like the 'A' series one that gives 'x' hp / torque from n/a modifications. The cam mod looks good and maybe the head needs to come off, the inlet and exhaust may need modification etc but if someone can outline a package then great. I guess that all of the info is in the replies and Chris's review in particular gives choices in terms of what you want from the car.
So menus please or tell me to go forth
If you are staying with the Che manifold, you will be looking to max out around 153bhp with remapping, free flow exhaust (stock exhaust limits power gains), inlet mods etc. Moving to the Zero or PPE manifold could net you around 160bhp with correct mapping, at the cost of a little mid range in the case of the PPE. Adding stage 1 cams to this sees you up to just under 170bhp.
There is a huge amount written about the NA mods and their effectiveness, with dyno plots too. Look for threads on my car, FG Robs, read all of this thread and there are a few others too, all giving a lot of information. Look for SJSpitz N/A thread for bigger budget possibilities. Therein lies the key. How much do you have to spend?
I have come to the conclusion that if power is your goal, a turbo kit gives best bang for buck now they are close to £2000. However, these come with their own setup complexities and added weight. Staying N/A has its benefits, which I have kept to so far, but the returns are smaller. Spending more on the chassis is another way to make it a better drivers car.
Chris
Maybe we should have a sticky for performance mods and the figures achieved (Proven), in fact it should be 2 one for N/A and the other for Turbo, I certainly don't mind listing everything - mods what do you think.
Rob.
Quote from: "FGRob"Maybe we should have a sticky for performance mods and the figures achieved (Proven), in fact it should be 2 one for N/A and the other for Turbo, I certainly don't mind listing everything - mods what do you think.
Rob.
Excellent idea. I am certainly happy to contribute.
Chris
sounds like a good idea Chris
Quote from: "markiii"sounds like a good idea Chris
Would like to take the credit but it was Robs idea. Will knock some info together when I get home.
Chris
that will teach me to type whilst having half my brain elsehwere
good ide Rob :-) :-) :-)
Quote from: "markiii"that will teach me to type whilst having half my brain elsehwere
good ide Rob :-) :-) :-)
Cheers Mark. s:D :D s:D
I've put something up to start the ball rolling, if acceptble then if everyone can follow the same format keeping the information the same it will make things easier for others to understand, suggest that this later stuff be removed from this thread just to keep it correct for Nic.
I'll start a similar formatted one for blown setups
Small update for you chaps...
At the weekend I enlisted the help of Ste and we raised the ride height by 10mm, I was catching a lot of crap under the car and scrapes were appearing on the chassis rails. Plus the new wheels are larger than standard so I wanted to make sure they looked right in the arches and didn't have any clearance problems. We also fitted a pair of pillowball topmounts to the rear BC coilovers. All in all handling is improved and not clenching my butt over every speed hump brings a bit more relaxed driving.
Today I had tyres fitted to the new wheels and put them on at lunchtime;
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/The%20Car/IMGP5050.jpg)
The wheels are OZ Ultraleggera SR.
16x7 ET37 Front
17x7 ET37 Rear.
Tyres are 195x40x16 and 215x40x17 Marangoni Zeta Linea.
Nuts are TPI Forged racing coloured red.
Tyre valves are surface fit low profile.
It's all VERY RED, but I like it.
Hard to say what the effect on handling is as it's early days yet, but the wheels are pretty light.
I do have a problem with a Megan trailing arm on the NSR, the pillow ball is failing and knocking.
Megan's prices have gone up and I'm not impressed with it only surviving two years so I've ordered replacements from Che for half Megan's price ... I'll see how they last.
Looking good Nic - I like the multi spoke design as you know. s:D :D s:D s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I know what you mean about ground clearance, I'm going to increase mine this year, the few miles I've actually done has resulted in some not so welcome dents.
I'm going to refurb the Megans this year as well, might buy a spare set just in case. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Rob.
Resurrecting this now as we are at 10 years old and 115000 miles.
The engine has started sounding a bit chain rattly since about 100k and started using oil when being thrashed. Regular normal driving doesn't see much use, but it's not something I'm comfortable with. So I ordered the parts and booked with Spit and Spitstop for covered working area and a mate to work with. Before starting we compression tested the engine...
1. 195psi
2. 195psi
3. 202psi
4. 195psi
All safely within spec, but interesting result for no.3.
Yesterday we stripped the rear end to the point of engine removal.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0149_zpsc8f48bf2.jpg)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0146_zpse0c42a97.jpg)
Today we got the engine out
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0151_zpsa7fc520e.jpg)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0152_zpsc19d3db8.jpg)
And the head off
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0158_zps47478099.jpg)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0155_zps9c7733ca.jpg)
What have we found d so far?
1. Chain is stretched beyond take up of the tensioner.
2. Water pump seal had begun to seep into the engine mount next to it.
3. Oil pooling against the back of the inlet valves suggesting the stem oil seals are leaking.
4. The bores are quite well polished so we intend to hone the cylinders.
5. Piston tops are in pretty good shape, not much in the way of deposits.
6. Cylinder crowns are also in pretty good shape, light deposits on the valves.
7. Coolant was very clean, it's been in a couple of years.
8. Oil is mucky, it's been getting mucky very quickly since around 100k suggesting leaking oil control rings.
9. Very pongy smell over overloaded oil when dismantling the head, I intend to fit an oil cooler to help with this.
Tomorrows plans are...
1. Remove pistons and rods to assess the stated for the big ends, rings, and pistons and compare with the new pistons I've bought. If the pistons are obviously different then I have plans to fit the new design pistons with complete rings.
2. Deliver the injectors for cleaning and testing.
3. Collect sealant for the new sump pan.
4. Remove valve springs and stem seals.
5. Lots of cleaning off deposits, casings, and mating surfaces.
6. Grind in valves.
7. Cylinder hone.
Plenty of coffee breaks and surviving being old and creaky.
Will have to see the state of pistons and rings before deciding on other tasks.
I do need to order new castle nuts for the drive shafts, a new bolt for the flywheel pulley and possibly a new flywheel pulley as the one we've taken off is pretty crusty.
Good work nic. Nice to see the progress of this.
I've set about removing my turbo today and its a lot of hard work. Did you have any issues with nuts or bolts?
Only problems so far have been the drive shaft crown nuts bing pains to get off ... The drivers side has never been removed, and one earth point bolt sheared in the nsr suspension turret. All quite surprising really.
And we both stink of Plusgas s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
The three amigoes actually came off like a dream s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Now there's a status Ste! s:) :) s:) Be interesting to see those pistons, when they come out.
Big task you guys have undertaken. Kudos to you both. I hope the pistons and big ends are still in good shape. :-) :-) :-)
Piston 1
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0162_zps87fffcd7.jpg)
Piston 2
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0161_zps990fb647.jpg)
Piston 3
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0160_zps3caecc05.jpg)
Piston 4
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0159_zps325d753e.jpg)
Will have them out tomorrow for a proper look, but you can see the tops are remarkably clean for doing 115000 miles.
What you can't see properly is the amount of reflection in the cylinder walls, they're very polished!
Looking like a fun project there, Nic!
Gutted I'm not about to get involved and return the favour of dismantling and reassembling to all hours!! s:( :( s:(
I hope everything goes well though, and you should get plenty more years out of that engine after all this!! s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:
Internals look pretty good! For comparison, mine was using a bit of oil at 96,000 - clear signs of oil on the pistons (below).
(http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q703/fretlesswal/IMG_1049_zps33851961.jpg) (http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/fretlesswal/media/IMG_1049_zps33851961.jpg.html)
and
(http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q703/fretlesswal/IMG_1048_zps19820fc0.jpg) (http://s1355.photobucket.com/user/fretlesswal/media/IMG_1048_zps19820fc0.jpg.html)
The timing chain was stretched to the point where I had to recount the links to check, so replaced that and the slippers too, although they didn't seem too bad.
I went the wimps route and put in the Toyota Europe short engine from CTP - too good a price!
Maxbore tb, gutted pre-cats, Pipercross filter and Markiii pipe (to come). Matt's underbody brace fitted.
All very nice!
Next stage will be the SP 200 turbo - the torque profile looks just right for the car with this kit, but that's probably for next year.
Have fun!
Pistons and rods are now out, evidence of blowback and although the oil rings move freely they are very compressed and mucky.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0163_zps1d8b0351.jpg)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0164_zps14016505.jpg)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0168_zps8f9e091e.jpg)
Big ends show a little bloom but no.3 is marked, though the crank journal is fine
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0169_zps98768bff.jpg)
Compared to
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0170_zps4805d742.jpg)
Here you can see the difference in piston design between my 2003 and the later 2005.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0171_zps1c3c9b5f.jpg)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0172_zps72b55f75.jpg)
So although the pistons and little ends are fine I'm going to swap in the new ones, hone the cylinders and put some new big end shells in all rods.
Well today not much done in the way of hardware.
But I have cleaned the front side of the engine
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/IMG_20130806_200601_zps84b6ae9c.jpg)
The rest of the effort had involved some travelling and finding some great engineering shops around Manchester which resulted in some changes to plans.
First injectors were dropped in for cleaning and testing at B&J Racing. This is an interesting if cluttered place and they rebuild engines for racing plus big style gas engines. We found some parts that couldn't be refused due to a dropped valve...
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0174_zpsb94b8329.jpg)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0173_zpsd6b9ee5d.jpg)
Then we popped into Pirtek to discuss pipework for the add on oil cooler, sounds very do-able, will be high quality hydraulic fittings with single wire an-8 pipe.
Next we headed around to a new garage run by an old friend to remove the valve stem oil seals and pick up some new sealant for the sump and end casings.
Dropped the conrods new little ends, pistons, and pins at Contract Engineering in Stockport, Tim's a nice guy and came well recommended from Popes engineering supplies also in Stockport.
We called into RRG Denton to pick up the big ends and new hub nuts and had a look around d the GT86. They have the TRD special edition GT86 in and it looks the business!
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0175_zpsf37da90b.jpg)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0177_zpsf1ef56aa.jpg)
While we were discussing cleaning the valves and what to use at Popes we learned of another company Excel Engineering near Bradbury who do a good job in valve cleaning. When we visited we found an excellent workshop where they do crank regrinds, honing, boring, all sorts of stuff. Tomorrow we will be dropping the head, rocker cover, end case, and valves. The guys do soda blasting and it brings heads and casings up like new, they're going to clean the valves too. All at a really terrific price. They did offer to skim the head and cut the valves in but I don't believe anything that radical is required as everything is in really good shape, just a bit of coke.
Lots more cleaning tomorrow and replacing the crank end oil seal behind the flywheel while we wait for the various parts to be ready for collection.
Excellent progress, this is good stuff! s:) :) s:)
Great reading and good to see so many local businesses getting in on the action s:) :) s:)
s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown: have to say what a great Wright up and with pictures just brilliant s:) :) s:) well done all involved in the hands on work.
Well, Contract Engineering in Stockport have effectively scrapped my new little ends.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0185_zps99bf819b.jpg)
New ones ordered locally and we have a recommendation for another company for fitting them.
Going to collect the new bearings and visit tomorrow.
A bit P'd off at the moment and the guys who recommended Contract will be getting a visit too probably.
Engine bay is clean now.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0182_zps11e18a7b.jpg)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0183_zps1bad0de6.jpg)
As a bonus I've swapped out both drive shafts for a pair supplied from Mr Bond, my originals had the hub stubs damaged by the garage who replaced the clutch and caused all sorts of problems. Gearbox is off, clutch out, and flywheel removed.
We found the best way to remove the flywheel bolts was by chocking the flywheel with a wooden block against a clutch mount tab and using an electric torque gun on the bolts. We're cleaning the end of the engine before fitting the new seal. It's not leaking but it's been on there a long time through crazy heat cycles, and a new one comes in the overhaul kit.
Today has had its downs, but some good highs.
News on injector testing shows they're all functioning perfectly with one down about 1cc, and that's before cleaning s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce: not bad for 115K miles eh?
I'll post a summary when we're finished so you all can understand what your engines are likely to be needing at this kind of mileage. I can think of one or two friends who are maybe ignoring stuff that could come to bite them.
Looking good. Be good to have an idea of the prox costs involved in this too Nic
Injectors are back, all cleaned and testing spot on.
New little ends have been collected and delivered to a very reputable company called Quasar Engineering in Stockport. Quasar do work for companies all over the country including Ferrari and Rolls Royce. It does mean a delay beyound the planned re-install day of Saturday though. Hopefully it will be worth the wait. A strongly worded letter will be winging it's way to the other company, and many thanks to RRG Denton for supplying the parts so quickly.
Cleaning the block has carried on today and we had a very welcome visit from FGrob, good to see you mate s:D :D s:D
We have also been working out the location of the new oil cooler and the length of the pipes, it should be quite neat.
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Injectors are back, all cleaned and testing spot on.
New little ends have been collected and delivered to a very reputable company called Quasar Engineering in Stockport. Quasar do work for companies all over the country including Ferrari and Rolls Royce. It does mean a delay beyound the planned re-install day of Saturday though. Hopefully it will be worth the wait. A strongly worded letter will be winging it's way to the other company, and many thanks to RRG Denton for supplying the parts so quickly.
Cleaning the block has carried on today and we had a very welcome visit from FGrob, good to see you mate s:D :D s:D
We have also been working out the location of the new oil cooler and the length of the pipes, it should be quite neat.
Hi Nic.
It was a great bit of therapy to see both Ste and yourself - plenty of coffee as usual s:D :D s:D , the car is looking great and will give you another 100K once you've finished it, interesting point about the stem seals, puts a different light on the pre-cat issue and certainly one that needs also to be taken into account.
Guess what ------------ I ran the Spit tonight for the first time since Sept last year, s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce: s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce: s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce: God I forgot how much the old engines stink on choke - had to change my cloths it was that bad s:flame: :flame: s:flame: s:flame: :flame: s:flame: - but boy does it sound good with the twin pipes and it's certainly got some compression s:scared: :scared: s:scared: s:scared: :scared: s:scared:
I'll post some pic's in my other thread now the engine bay is finished. s:D :D s:D s:D :D s:D
See ya soon. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Rob.
Cylinder head is back from soda blasting and valve cleaning, looking very nice.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0186_zps9bae5d40.jpg)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0187_zps489a6022.jpg)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0188_zps0bb82bce.jpg)
Ready for valve lapping
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0189_zpse666965a.jpg)
Intake valves lapped in
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0190_zps420e253b.jpg)
Exhaust valves lapped in
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0192_zpscc799f0f.jpg)
Oil cooler pipework is ordered with stainless fittings. s:D :D s:D
The casings are a bit too corroded to come up well with soda blasting so now they're this clean I'm going to paint them.
Worked a little late tonight, we're in the putting things together stage now ... What a relief.
Still waiting on the little ends and conrods.
Valves and springs reinstalled in the head now.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0195_zps9f883115.jpg)
If you're going to do this it's best to have two people working on it and a clean relaxed atmosphere, it takes some concentration to get the keepers to settle into place before relaxing the spring compressors.
Superb work Nic and Ste.
Rocker cover painting is complete, accidentally custom style
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0197_zpsb4ae6fa0.jpg)
Chain casing was rough but has taken the paint reasonably well
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0200_zpsa6561a51.jpg)
Oil cooler in the process of being fitted
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0201_zps86cf5c2a.jpg)
I've replaced the drivers door mirror to boot, mine was scraped and cracked by idiots squeezing a vehicle past when took out the drivers wing a while back.
Oil cooler in final position
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0204_zpsdea0d78d.jpg)
Should get a bit of airflow
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0207_zps0ad8dc10.jpg)
How does it cool the oil?
Quote from: "Two's Company"How does it cool the oil?
There is a sandwich plate goes between the engine and oil filter with a thermostat in it. At 80 degrees it opens and the oil is diverted through this cooler. The air flowing into the side intake does the rest.
Do you know how hot the oil has been running without it?
Going by the smell when we took the head bolts out .... too warm s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Stuck waiting for parts today, we gave the cylinders a light hone ready for installing the new pistons
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0209_zps7ffd20ba.jpg)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0210_zps5fdb9710.jpg)
Oil cooler pipes will be ready tomorrow from Pirtek.
Hoping conrods will be ready tomorrow from Quasar.
Will be picking up some shiny stainless bolts for the rocker cover and chain casing.
Will be nice putting things back together. s:D :D s:D
Looking good s8) 8) s8)
Still waiting for the conrods to be ready, getting bored.
Heat protection added to cross-member
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0213_zps1ed9665c.jpg)
Heat protect for the bulkhead where the new oil cooler pipes will pass, sorry it's a bit blurry but you get the idea
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0214_zps17bc428c.jpg)
Question, do I re-attach this label?
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0215_zps97b0ef42.jpg)
Quote from: "Mike_V"Superb work Nic and Ste.
+1
Finally the new little ends have been machined and ready, £150 but done properly this time.
Pistons are mow fitted.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0264_zpsa49ab365.jpg)
Tomorrow is the day we start putting things back together s:grin: :grin: s:grin:
Got a bunch of stainless bolts today for the rebuild.
Other than the obvious what's the difference between a big end and a little end?!
Little ends are at the little end of the con rod. They are pressed in bi-metal bushes that then need to be machined to the correct clearance for the gudgeon pin to be installed. You then have to heat the piston to insert the pin.
The.big ends are at the big end of the con rod and come in two half shells. They sit in the end of the rod and the clamp end. You then clamp them around the crankshaft journal.
So you've finally done a bit after having two days off watching Dave ?
Quote from: "DannyN"So you've finally done a bit after having two days off watching Dave ?
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: Yeah, it's been a complete drag waiting for a call any time s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
We went across around two to see how they were getting on, or ahem, gee them up.
They were promised for 4:30 and when I turned up at 4:30 they were ready. Very happy we can get into building up the engine in the morning, we should have it mounted in the chassis at the end of the day. s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Great stuff Nic. s:) :) s:)
So today we cracked on at a relaxed pace.
Rings fitted to the pistons
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0272_zpsecd6dfd5.jpg)
Pistons and rods installed
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0273_zps4e78641a.jpg)
New oil pump installed
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/56552501-6807-404f-b92f-8c88d0ce853d_zpsda4671ef.jpg)
Chain installed
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0276_zps79660adf.jpg)
A word on chains, the original chain appeared quite loose before removal. As it turns out the overall stretch isn't that noticeable but the rollers are a lot loosed and obviously worn.
Just so you can see the improved design of the pistons better I took these photos.
Oil ring feeds external
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0268_zps7b98d75f.jpg)
Oil ring feeds internal
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0269_zpsde9eba22.jpg)
Oil ring drains
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0267_zps39df7bc2.jpg)
The end casing is now on the engine and the sealant is curing, tomorrow the rocker cover goes on, flywheel, and starter.
We will then fit the wiring harness, intake manifold, and alternator. The Toyota oil cooler then goes on with new oil cooler sandwich plate. A new sump will be going on once we have the engine on its mounts.
Thought it was about time I caught up with what you are up to. Looks like a good job. s:) :) s:)
Looks great, Well done both of you.
A little off topic - but why is the top of the piston not flat? What is the purpose of the quite complex shape? Anyone know?
Basically to get the compression ratio.
With 16v and modern heads the valves are at more an angle leaving a cavity in the head. the piston is shaped to fill that cavity to reduce it to the required compression. Also there are cut outs for the exhaust valves while open so they do not strike the piston top.
Quote from: "custardavenger"Basically to get the compression ratio.
With 16v and modern heads the valves are at more an angle leaving a cavity in the head. the piston is shaped to fill that cavity to reduce it to the required compression. Also there are cut outs for the exhaust valves while open so they do not strike the piston top.
Nice one - cheers. I consider it a successful day when you learn something new .... and I'm now going to celebrate a successful day by sodding off to the pub for the afternoon s:) :) s:)
Starting to look like an engine now
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0278_zpsa3c8514b.jpg)
New water pump
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0280_zps28948504.jpg)
Gearbox attached, phew that was hard work, pretty much did us in!
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0281_zps2fe42579.jpg)
Shiny new idler and tensioner pulleys
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0282_zpsabc9c49f.jpg)
Wiring harness is now reattached and we're moving to install the intake manifold and throttle body.
We're getting closer, coolant and oil is in.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0286_zps9dd474a4.jpg)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0289_zps47414329.jpg)
We've actually progressed a bit more, now needing to drive the hub nuts on, reassemble the brakes and refit the wheels and bumper. Really papping myself for startup. s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:
Can't thank Ste enough for all his hard work, patience, understanding, and expertise. s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:
Well done guys. I love Ste's pile cushion by the way! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
We need to introduce a "like" button!!
Fantastic job s:) :) s:) Good luck with the first startup.
ps, Don't forget to put some oil in first s:roll: :roll: s:roll: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Are you going to get it remapped?
I wasn't planning to remap, but considering the engine won't fire up on the PFC but will run on the OEM ECU there may be a problem. Runs a-ok on OEM but the throttle position is off by 12 degrees due to the modified tb. The PFC doesn't seem to be firing the injectors or coil packs.
She lives s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Today has been sorting out niggles;
1. Vvti p1349 not operating. Took out and tested the vvti ocv on the bench, 12v makes it fire the plunger so it's OK. Reconnected to engine and did the same test, could hear it click but the engine didn't respond, this indicates the vvti controller on the end of the inlet camshaft is not working. The filter had already been checked. The PFC doesn't have an indicator for the vvti to show up faults so it may have been like this for a long time. Replaced it with one off a spare engine after thoroughly cleaning and lubricating it. Re-tested and the engine stopped showing vvti working and no more p1349.
2. High idle constantly and hunting idle when slowing to a stop. Testing showed the vsv valve not working, removed and cleaned, retested and now OK. Still high idle so removed throttle body and unmounted the IAC valve, oh yeah! IAC fully stuck, but we managed to bring it back to live with a good clean out and lubrication. Idle now settled in the right place.
3. Radiator fan not coming on at all. Removed fan and tested it finding it working fine, tested the fan relay by swapping with the foglight relay and it's OK too. Tested all wiring to the fan, all OK so put it back together with wd40 in the connector ... Result is a working fan at the right temperature.
Once run in I will have repaired my apexi PFC and will likely have a remap as there's now way of knowing how long these items have been faulty. We've found a small coolant leak on the pipes to the oil cooler (the Toyota one) which we fitted new Toyota clips to because the originals were FUBAR. So we're waiting for the engine to be cool and we will deal with them. Engine is full of Toyota oil, which is fine for running in but I don't like the look of it and will be replacing with my normal Fuchs Titan Pro S at first service approx 1000 miles from now.
New oil cooler isn't connected yet as I want to run in the engine without too many changes and don't want debris from the rebuild settling in the cooler.
Looking at the last dyno graph for your engine, I would say the vvti controller has been out a while. Could see a nice fattening up in the mid range with it working. Looking good, very satisfying rebuilding your own engine.
Chris
Good news nic. Glad you've got things sorted. I know the pain of not knowing why things don't work the way they should.
What's your running in process going to be? Take it easy or drive it hard?
Taking it easy till I get some confidence with the engine, I'm not going to go hard for a while.
Under 4000 rpm without labouring it for at least a couple of hundred miles and then gradually build up and exercise it up and down the rev range gradually. It's running really sweet and I don't want to break that, I'm really looking forward to spending another 100,000 miles mostly roof down.
I must mention some people who made this all possible;
Ste "Spit" without whom this would be absolutely impossible, his facilities, experience, hard working, and good company while putting me up for over two weeks is brilliant. He's a top mate.
Cheap Toyota Parts Chris for the supply of all major parts and more oil than the Amoco Cadiz, and words of encouragement.
Mattperformance for his friendly support and advice along with the loan of a bucket of shims for setting up the valve clearances.
Simon Quinlan who has Quinlan Vehicle Repairs in Glossop and supplied the sealant gloop, laughs, and removal of valve guide oil seals.
Excel Engine Services in Stockport who soda blasted the head and cleaned up the mating surfaces, great enthusiastic chaps who do a top job.
Quasar engineering in Stockport who fitted and machined the little ends.
B&J Racing in Manchester Trafford Industrial estate for the cleaning and testing of the injectors.
John at Pirtek Manchester for his advice, help, and supply of the new oil cooler pipes.
Popes of Stockport for the supply of stainless steel fasteners and plenty of gloves.
Alan of Denton RRG Parts department for the urgent bits we needed and the great discount he provided, top marks!
Tem for his quick answers to some question about the snagging problems, pointers really helped.
Douwe Egbert's for providing the stimulation to maintain our work.
Kojak, The Professionals, Magnum PI, The Eagles TV history and Clint Eastwood for entertaining us in our down moments and dead times waiting for parts and suppliers to deliver work.
Phew s:scared: :scared: s:scared: s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I wouldnt lend my PFC (on an hours notice) to just anyone s:( :( s:(
s:oops: :oops: s:oops: Sorry Danny, yes indeed Danny dashed out to lend me his Apexi PFC when it became apparent mine was broken. Hugely appreciated mate, hopefully I'll have mine working soon and I can bring yours back. Really good to see you on both occasions. The GT86 is actually growing on me too. Actually I'm not kidding it's been brilliant to see you, it's been far too long.
I was only teasing pal, was great to see you lot to and to be able to help get the 'Killa back on the road s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Just caught up with this thread, well done Nic and Ste, great effort and great result!
Yeah - great effort, must be very rewarding to prepare your car for the next 100k - congrats!
First service today at 950 miles, drained the post-rebuild oil overnight and plumbed in the oil cooler.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0312_zps35950dba.jpg)
I've got the oil cooler fed by a thermostatic sandwich plate, which varies the flow through the cooler depending on temperature. First indications are good, oil and coolant are at lower temperatures when in motion on motorways and a-roads. The engine bay is cooler after a run too, noticeable!
I've added another sandwich plate (thanks Roger) and added ProSport cheaper stepper motor Oil temp, and Oil pressure gauges. A bit of a panic at first when the oil pressure gauge read 7 bar even before starting the engine, but once the engine had run and cooled it sorted itself out. I'll post pictures of the gauges tomorrow in daylight, they are 52mm, smoked faces which light up white in daylight and amber at night to match the dashboard. They also have alarms and the whole face flashes to red when the alarm is triggered with the most annoying beep I've ever come across, methinks they will get sabotaged soon s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
The engine is running very strongly, looking forward to building up the miles s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Excellent Nic, what was wrong with the PFC in the end? Loving that oil cooler in particular! s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "loadswine"Excellent Nic, what was wrong with the PFC in the end?
The chip which is the output amp feeding vsv, IAC, and injectors is blown.
There are four of these chips in the ECU, talk suggests only two of them are used in the PFC for the 1zz it's probably designed to run a v8 and then the plugs and software are changed depending on application. The good thing, I've found, about the PFC is that Apexi are not like other manufacturers and all the part numbers and component designations are still clearly displayed on the components. So I've ordered a replacement plus spares (from China) and will be replacing it when it arrives. What blew the chip? Well it was working fine before we dismantled everything, and it's been unplugged before without issue. Could have been a high current drain due to the stuck valves or it could have been a wet plug on an injector (over generous dose of wd40), or blind bad luck. I will be installing the new chip in a socket for easy replacement in case it happens again.
Cool, I shall be extra careful when removing mine today. s;) ;) s;)
Gauges as promised....
Daylight running
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0315_zps4b4d467a.jpg)
Night mode
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0317_zpsf4a85146.jpg)
Latest update has been seen elsewhere but best to keep it all together here.
New Hurricane intake fitted,
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/The%20Car/DSC_0025_zpsgrunfcjw.jpg)
Kit from elise-shop.com (http://www.elise-shop.com/hurricane-induction-kit-for-vvti-engine-elise-111r-exige-s2-federal-elise-p-250.html)
Add 70mm-70mm silicone 45 degree pipe off eBay and cut it down in length to fit, then approx 12" of 80mm ducting.
These are the additional bits;
Silicone hose (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171091796677?var=470275938682&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649)
Induction hose (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310306097204?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649)
Jubilee clips (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161070319192?var=460192151608&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649)
The maf mount isn't perfect for fitting the maf into it but it does seal with a bit of care.
Next is a bit of suspension fettling (again) and refitting the e-manage ultimate for mapping.
Looks a nice bit if kit Nic. I wonder how that set up compares with the PPE
Quote from: "nathanMR2"Looks a nice bit if kit Nic. I wonder how that set up compares with the PPE
PPE have stopped making the heat shielded version of their intake and are using cheaper filter, this one probably works out a little cheaper due to no import duties and the costs of delivery are UK only. From what I have seen of people quoting intake temperatures for the PPE then this maintains anywhere up to 10degrees cooler because it is pipes to the exterior of the car, you could probably achieve the same by piping the PPE to the car exterior too. Obvious difference is in physical bulk, I have a PPE heat shield and it is considerable bulkier than the Hurricane.
Nice work Nik! A rebuild is the one thing I daren't try myself!
Didn't read far enough back to find out why you needed the build?
I was curious to see if PPE had plans to sell the older version of the intake after reading this thread and sent them an email today. They came back with the following:
We switched from the Apexi filter to a better filter. The Drift/iPerformance filter is a fully synthetic 3D weave material that can be washed and reused forever (Apexi filter is not designed for cleaning, just replacement). iPerformance filters have a lifetime warranty and we have done testing that showed better performance than any oiled filter as well as better performance than other dry filters. (Power gains from switching from a K&N to an iPerformance filter of 8whp have been seen on supercharged V8s as reported by TorqStorm Superchargers in Michigan)
We haven't designed a new heat shield for these yet, but there are many universal filter heat shields available that will work with our new improved air filter.
Has anyone got the newer version and does the filter seem like an improvement or is this just cost cutting and BS? Also doesn't sound like they're in any rush to design a new heat shield.
(Power gains from switching from a K&N to an iPerformance filter of 8whp have been seen on supercharged V8s as reported by TorqStorm Superchargers in Michigan)
Sounds like BS to me..