So Mark and I fitted the Tein SuperStreets to my car this weekend - actually it was a very very quick process.. or would have been had it not been for some droplink related disasters.
Fitting the fronts:
Very, very easy to do - just undo the stock suspension, drop it out, slide the ready assembled Tein in place and bolt up. This probably took us 30 minutes including jacking the car up for both sides.
The front drop links (I'd got replacements for front & rear - only the rears are really needed unless you're doing the ARBs too) were a total pig however. We ended up having to take the whole bar off and then use the pillar drill to drill the stock ones off. Actually - this is by far the easiest way to do this, if we'd done that rather than faffing around with a dremel and then 4" grinder, we'd have been done in another 30 minutes!
Except for... One of the two Twos R Us droplinks I got was faulty s:( :( s:( The nut at the droplink end wouldn't torque up - it got to about 15lb/ft and then stripped the threads so now it won't undo or do up s:? :? s:? T'other side was fine, so I put this down to a fluke and will try and get a replacement - it doesn't seem likely to fall off at least.
Big note: Tein seem incapable of setting both sides with the correct camber from the factory. Just as with another members, mine came with -1.5* one side and +1.5* the other side, rather than being set as a mirror image. Resetting the camber takes 30 seconds, however - loosen four allen bolts, tap the shock head over a little, retighten. I'll get a full alignment in a couple of weeks after the bracing goes on - it's close enough for now.
Fitting the rears:
The droplinks at this end have to come off, as they go between the shock body and roll bar (the front droplinks are between lower A arm and roll bar). They are renowned for being a total pain - so if yours won't come off then I'd recommend removing the ARB and using a drill to drill out the droplink end. So get replacements before you start.
Mine - unlike the fronts - came off incredibly easily with just a 14mm ring spanner, imperial allen wrench (5mm is too small, 5.5mm too big) and a hammer.
Again replacing the shocks was a 30 minute job all-in.
Now - my real question here - has anyone fitted an EDFC themselves?
I read the instructions, which seemed easy enough.. but it went downhill from there.
I removed the standard 'clicker' assembly from the top of the shock and screwed in the hex-head grubscrew from the EDFC kit.
The instructions then say to place the motor on top and turn it with a screwdriver three full turns clockwise. First problem: mine won't go three full turns - less than one full turn and the grubscrew is seated hard against the adjuster assembly inside the shock, and won't go any further.
Which leads to the second problem - the instructions say to simply 'screw the motor assembly on gently' - I can't! It won't mate up with the threads, because it won't go down far enough s:( :( s:(
Has anyone else had this problem, or is there something wrong with my EDFC or Teins?
So for now I'm stuck with manual adjustment s:( :( s:(
I have to say though - the Teins are amazing, they totally transform the handling.
They're currently set full-hard front & rear, which is a bit hard on the front relative to the back - but even so they're not crashy at all, and not unlivable with (for me, at least). On the motorway they could do with being softer though - long journeys will leave you feeling like you've had 12 rounds of kidney punches from Tyson.
Incredibly handling however. I need to soften the fronts a little (I get quite a bit of push & tramp at the front end), but they've already gained me serious speed - up to 20mph on fast sweeping bends.
As an example - M25 (south) to M4 (west) - I'd normally take the first right hand bend at 70, then 50-60 for the second right hand bend, and then 65 for the left hand onto the M4..
Tonight I was doing ~80 round the first right hander, accelerating hard at the top of 3rd, dropped to 65 and accelerated hard round the second right hander and flew round the left hander at 80 again.. and it felt totally controlled and safe - whereas the stock suspension, even at the slower speeds, always felt a little on the edge - especially by the last curve.
Anyway big thanks to Mark for the use of his garage & tools - I'd have been stuffed without the pillar drill if I was doing this on my own - and to Chris for the hospitality and food, as always s:) :) s:)
Hi Aaron
Glad you like them, get them on a track then they really come into their own s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I have taken my EDFC off the car, did you lubricate the screw? Also did the motor drive head fit into the screw, if not it will leave it proud. The way the motor works is once it's fitted and powered up, the motor will turn the screw until it stops, that's full hard setting, you then adjust back from that. Also you need to use thread lock on that thread. All this should be in your kit.
Have you fitted the anti tangle device on the top of the front strut? again that will come with the EDFC kit, if you don't fit it the wires will twist as there is nothing stopping the strut from rotating.
The other thing you need to check is have you got the right EDFC kit, I think from memory all four motors should be the same thread - do they look the same? Also have you tried a different motor?
Sorry I can't help much more stuck overseas at the moment.
Thanks
Rob
Hi Rob,
Yep - I greased the little grub screw and inserted it into the top of the shock, set flush as the instructions say.
The motor spindle was definitely seated as far into the grub screw as it would go, too, but even after screwing the grubscrew in hard the motor is too far up to be screwed onto the shock threads.
Basically it's like either:
a) The motor spindle is too long, or motor threads too short
b) The threaded section on the shock is too short
c) The grubscrew hex section isn't deep enough
Incidentally my motors were different - two M12 and two M14's - I wonder if I have the wrong motor kit or EDFC kit?
Quote from: "aaronjb"Hi Rob,
Yep - I greased the little grub screw and inserted it into the top of the shock, set flush as the instructions say.
The motor spindle was definitely seated as far into the grub screw as it would go, too, but even after screwing the grubscrew in hard the motor is too far up to be screwed onto the shock threads.
Basically it's like either:
a) The motor spindle is too long, or motor threads too short
b) The threaded section on the shock is too short
c) The grubscrew hex section isn't deep enough
Incidentally my motors were different - two M12 and two M14's - I wonder if I have the wrong motor kit or EDFC kit?
Hi Aaron
From memory I think they both should be M14, that will give you a problem, was this a new kit / strut combination?
Rob
Hmm - I need to check the front struts I think.. you might be right - but I think they'd both have to be M12's (the rears definitely seem to be M12 on the strut top).
And yes - brand new from Demon Tweeks
In the TEIN brochure, I presume you have the "Super Street with Upper Mounts", since their is no plain "Superstreet" option for the roadster.
It lists the EDFC fitting as EDK05-12140, which I then cross-referenced with the model which is "EDFC KIT M12-M14"... so therefore it seems you have the correct bits.
common Aaron, sort it out, we've got mine to do soon s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Aaron, It may be woth giving Chris at Hyper Sports a ring (0845 225 0111) if you're still having problems, he's a top bloke who knows his stuff, he fitted my Teins & EDFC so he may be able to answer any questions you have.
Hi Aaron
One problem you need to be aware of is that Tein have changed their EDFC units and they are not interchangable, the kit listed for the new model kit is EDK05-14140 which indicates M14 for both, but you say they look like M12, have you tried the larger motor or are all your motors the same size?
Here's a link to the US website m http://www.tein.com/ti/l22.html (http://www.tein.com/ti/l22.html) m
I will check my box when I return in the morning to tell you the part number I have fitted. But saying that mine are the older type, silver in colour are yours black - including the EDFC unit?
Rob.
he has 2 motors M12 and 2 M14, and none of them will fit teh rear struts
Now that's a problem - looks like you need to talk to Demon Tweeks.
Rob.
Hm - it certainly does.. The struts are the right thread size for two of the motors (certainly the rears are), but they just don't reach the threads because the motors aren't long enough s:( :( s:(
Aaron, I there is the possibility that they are the wrong version of the motors for those shocks. I remember reading that they redesigned the motors at one point.
Where are you getting the model number EDK05-14140 from Rob (M14s all round)? Thats different to what it says in TEIN's own 2007 brochure.
Quote from: "fanjules"Where are you getting the model number EDK05-14140 from Rob (M14s all round)? Thats different to what it says in TEIN's own 2007 brochure.
Hi
Click on the link above and that will take you to the US website, which also talks about the new EDFC that's out. Gazz has the new unit fitted but he purchased his through Hypersport.
The UK website as far as I can see does not give any info on the new unit, it still shows a picture of the silver unit which I have fitted.
By the way what's the weather like, just coming back from Qatar - 50C currently clear weather for the past two weeks. s:D :D s:D s:D :D s:D
Thanks
Rob
Thanks for all the advice folks s:) :) s:)
The problem is now solved.. the problem was with the Aaronicus Dumbicus s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Now for what I was doing wrong..
m http://www.tein.co.uk/price/data/all/edfc.pdf (http://www.tein.co.uk/price/data/all/edfc.pdf) m
Look at the steps on page 7.
I was missing out half of step 2 s:oops: :oops: s:oops: I removed the clicker mechanism, but didn't remove the original grubscrew from the shaft - so I ended up with two grubscrews in there, one on top of the other.
Realised my mistake when I stared down the hole in the second rear shock absorber s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
So anyway I've checked now, and the rears definitely fit s:) :) s:) Couldn't check the fronts as I can't get the clicker mechanism out without dropping the shock to get the little spanner on properly (unless I hacksaw a bit off the spanner s;) ;) s;) ).
I did also realise that although the rears were set full-hard from the factory, the fronts were set full-soft s:oops: :oops: s:oops: so I've corrected that to something more sane (well, full hard all round until I remember what settings Ste told me s:oops: :oops: s:oops: )
I knew I was having a bad day on Sunday s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Let me know how you get on with the dampers all set to fully stiff.
If its acceptable to leave them mostly like that predominantly for road use then I cant see them ever being changed for track use and its not worth me getting the EDFC if I follow the same route as you (tempted!)
Quote from: "aaronjb"I've corrected that to something more sane (well, full hard all round until I remember what settings Ste told me s:oops: :oops: s:oops: )
Me and Gazz have both found the mid-setting to be a nice balance on our untidy streets. 7 front, 9 rear ish.
Softer is a bit too jiggly at low speeds (that's a technical term s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ), Harder can get a little painful.
Oh, and re. front camber, don't be surprised if the L&R camber positions are
totally different after alignment. Having them mirror-imaged is no guarantee of good alignment, but its better than the factory positions s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Fanjules, personally I don't see any need for the EDFC ... but others do. Variety is the spice and all that s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I have a feeling fully stiff fronts might be a bit thumpy, yeah - but we shall see s:) :) s:)
You're right on the camber - I did do a quick check with Mark's camber guage before I left and by that I had -2.5 on the drivers side and -2 on the passenger side.. that's closer than they would have been originally though, so that was OK by me s:lol: :lol: s:lol: Definitely needs reducing, though, as -2.5 will go through the inner shoulder of my tyres in double quick time.
I'll probably leave the full alignment until after I've had all the Corky bracing fitted, though - just in case anything changes.
Jules - I'll let you know how I get on s:) :) s:)
Hi Aaron
Glad you got it sorted, it's normally the simple things that catch you out.
I'm running -1.0 on the front which I feel gives a nice balance / feel to the car, but the choice is yours. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
As to the running settings with the EDFC, again thats down to you, I have all three memories set, the 1st is the "wife" setting 14 front 15 back, the 2nd is normal fast road 8 front and 9 back and the third is track 1 front and 3 back. The great thing about this is you can change your settings as you are moving. s:D :D s:D s:D :D s:D
All I can say is what other well priced suspension package can give you this flexability s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Enjoy.
Rob.
PS The package I have is a M12 / M14 motors so the US website is wrong s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Thanks Rob - yep, I think I was just tired on the Sunday and not reading the instructions properly s:) :) s:)
Interesting that you have the front set harder than the back for track work - I'd expected it to be the other way around..
I still have mine set full hard front & rear - actually I don't find it that bad on the roads at all, although it would be nice to be able to soften it right up for the motorway (once I get the EDFC in), as it's a little hard for a long (over an hours) drive.
Quote from: "aaronjb"Interesting that you have the front set harder than the back for track work - I'd expected it to be the other way around..
The main reason is to keep the front square, just the same as having heavy duty anti roll bars (the front are thinker than the back) When I was at the SP Dyno day, SP suggest keeping the back soft to help grip - it's all down to an individuals preference.
Rob.
Good point Rob - I had noticed that the back end is a little more lively now (although actually I quite like it s;) ;) s;) ).
I'll fiddle more with damping settings once I have the front camber set to something a little more sensible I think, I'll give your EDFC settings a go as a starting point s:) :) s:)
So far I don't feel like softening them up - but I might do after the trip to Peterborough at the weekend.. that's a long trip for my back to take a pummelling s:) :) s:)
I've decided to got for just S-tech springs for now, having decided what I actually need is the monoflex jobbies, but they're crazy money!
And whats all this softening the rear nonsense? You should be softening the front if anything for less rear grip. s;) ;) s;)
Where'd you put the EDFC in the dashboard, Aaron?
Quote from: "fanjules"And whats all this softening the rear nonsense? You should be softening the front if anything for less rear grip. s;) ;) s;)
Hmmmmm - That makes a lot of sense s:?: :?: s:?: - so you are saying all those people who have fitted the up-rated anti roll bars, which are manufactured to a reduced body roll, have wasted their money. s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Quote from: "Ernie Ball"Where'd you put the EDFC in the dashboard, Aaron?
I'm not sure if Aaron as fitted his yet, I've put mine in the top dash cupboard thingy. Out of sight but easy to access.
Rob.
Quote from: "FGRob"Quote from: "Ernie Ball"Where'd you put the EDFC in the dashboard, Aaron?
I'm not sure if Aaron as fitted his yet, I've put mine in the top dash cupboard thingy. Out of sight but easy to access.
You're right Rob - I haven't fitted it yet s:) :) s:)
Actually the EDFC box itself is in place - and it's in the same place as you, about 1/3rd of the way down the cubby box, easy to get at but shut the lid and it's hidden from thieving eyes s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "FGRob"Quote from: "fanjules"And whats all this softening the rear nonsense? You should be softening the front if anything for less rear grip. s;) ;) s;)
Hmmmmm - That makes a lot of sense s:?: :?: s:?: - so you are saying all those people who have fitted the up-rated anti roll bars, which are manufactured to a reduced body roll, have wasted their money. s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Point, missed!
Quote from: "fanjules"Point, missed!
Nearly s:D :D s:D s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Erm have I missed something here? Surely anti roll bars and spring rates are used to stiffen the ride and control roll? Damper settings are used to control damping. Roll stiffness is a product of spring rates and roll bar stiffness.
Damping should be set up to achieve maximum grip at both ends IMO, after the spring rates, roll bars and ride height are optimised. The handling balance is better adjusted by spring rates / ride heights, camber settings and of course choice of tyres. Having too stiff a damping force can make the car hop (particularly if rebound is too slow). Having this property at one end and not the other could spell disaster. Some guys on the Briskoda site have had "entertaining" moments after fitting Koni FSDs to cars where they were simply too stiff in rebound.
I am getting interested in this as I will quite possibly go the coilover route myself once the bracing is in place. The SS coilovers look good, I really like the look of the Monoflex system as well but that is a bit rich and probably OTT for mostly street use. It is going to be an expensive year either way after some git at JAE stuffed a Tein Catalogue in my hand.
Chris
Well Chris it's time to stop thinking about it and put your money on one of the best investments you can make for your car.
What you said above is true, it's a combination off all the above which gives you a good handling vehicle, some of the more pure racers will remove anti roll bars and just use spring rates / ride heights and damper settings to set a car up - talk to SP about that.
Any way you have just given a good reason to have the EDFC, it allows change while on the move to any setting at the push of a button.
You will be surprized just how many members have changed or are changing to the Tein set-up s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "FGRob"Well Chris it's time to stop thinking about it and put your money on one of the best investments you can make for your car.
It is the money word that is the sticking point at the moment. I have spent out on bracing and brake lines over the last couple of months and need new tyres as well. Seriously considering Hankook RS-2 at the moment. This leaves a big hole in the bank account. Also have to make a payment on account to HMRC (AKA Cnuts) at the end of the month, so the suspension will be a little way off yet. I want to see how much stiffer the car is after bracing first. IMO, as standard the shell is already a little flexible for the stock setup. Anything harder will work the shell more. I am pretty sure the bracing will make it right enough to go stiffer.
Quote from: "FGRob"What you said above is true, it's a combination off all the above which gives you a good handling vehicle, some of the more pure racers will remove anti roll bars and just use spring rates / ride heights and damper settings to set a car up - talk to SP about that.
Anti roll bars enable you to set up a car with good roll control and useful suspension travel in one package. If you use spring rates alone, the roll control also directly affects the ride stiffness and you can lose a lot of surface compliance to achieve the desired roll control. OK for the track, but a bit compromised for the road IMO.
Quote from: "FGRob"Any way you have just given a good reason to have the EDFC, it allows change while on the move to any setting at the push of a button.
I like the EDFC idea, only worry for me is that it is more stuff in the car and means a simple job of bolting stuff on turns to a PITA wiring job as well. When I have run adjustables before, I set them up soft, gradually wound them up until it felt about right then tweaked settings and left them for a few days of driving before tweaking a little more. A slow process, but good results.
Quote from: "FGRob"You will be surprized just how many members have changed or are changing to the Tein set-up s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Hope to be joining 'em as soon as I can. The Tein SS kit does look to be a really good setup for reasonable cash. Cant see a better option out there.
Anyone know what the stock spring rates are by the way?
Chris
Here are some spring rates that i have found:
------------------------------Front---Rear (N/mm)
Stock------------------------14.7---23.5
Swift-------------------------15.0---28.0
TTE---------------------------17.0---27.5
TRD Sportivo---------------15.6---33.6
TRD WayDo-----------------23.4---46.2
TRD Competition-----------34.3---49.0
Tein Super-------------------29.4---58.9
Tein S Tech------------------18.7---28.4
Tein H Tech------------------16.7---25.5
Tein progressive (low)-----13.7---18.6
Tein progressive (high)----25.5---37.3
[BTW The figures are expressed in N/mm (Newtons per millimetre) for those who prefer kg*f/mm: just divide by 9.81.]