Forgive the title s;) ;) s;)
So the Top Secret turbo kit turned up today - and while I still have a few parts left to get (chargecooler barrel, datalogit, wideband), I thought I'd post pictures of the kits constituent parts:
Well packaged box - the exhaust was equally well packaged (took forever to get into it!):
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010547.JPG)
Sexy manifold:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010548.JPG)
All nicely knife-edged inside:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010550.JPG)
MAF pipe:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010551.JPG)
Main boost pipe - this will get cut'n'shut to accept the chargecooler barrel:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010552.JPG)
Hose clips:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010554.JPG)
Oil return pipe - ready heat wrapped:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010555.JPG)
Miscellaneous fittings, wires, oil feed tube etc:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010556.JPG)
Mushroom air filter:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010557.JPG)
Drop-pipe from turbo to exhaust:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010559.JPG)
Also nicely ground down inside:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010560.JPG)
Gaskets, oil return fittings, bits 'n bobs:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010561.JPG)
Greddy Trust T517Z turbo:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010562.JPG)
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010563.JPG)
Stainless exhaust:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010564.JPG)
Downpipe:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010565.JPG)
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010566.JPG)
There's really only one thing I wish were different about this kit, and that's that the turbo was a Garrett unit - the Trust T517Z is a good turbo, but it's also an oil-cooled plain bearing unit (as opposed to the Garrett which is ball-bearing water cooled) so it's a little old-tech..
It'll be interesting to see what lag is like, I think..
(For high-res versions of the pics go to m http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit (http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit) m )
I'll continue to update this as I amass the rest of the parts and start fitting it all s;) ;) s;)
That is a very sexy manifold. s:D :D s:D
Looks like a very nice kit. I've never seen pictures of this installed but I can imagine it looks awesome!
Good luck with the install.
Verrry nice Aaron - you can see that paying all that dosh gets some high quality kit s8) 8) s8)
Beautiful welding s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Some nice equipment there
did it cost you an arm and a leg? s:) :) s:)
interesting to see the power and torque outputs once completed
Tee
Let's just say it wasn't cheap s;) ;) s;) In fact probably the most expensive turbo kit around, considering it doesn't come with intercooler, ECU or injectors..
Incidentally - I just checked and the Trust turbo uses a T25 inlet and five-bolt outlet flange, so it should be plug 'n play to swap to a GT28R/RS/2871 in the future - which is good news s:) :) s:)
Just out of interest, is the GT25R the same flanges?
Nic - that depends which exact model the GT25R is, but I think the GT2550 and GT2545 both use the T25 flange.. There are some smaller GT25's that use the T2 flange, I think - I'd check, but the Garrett website appears to be down..
I couldn't resist mocking some of it up in the bedroom:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010567.JPG)
At least I think that's how it's meant to look - the instructions are in Japanese, so.. I could be wrong! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Looks a well made kit. I'm looking at a turbo kit soon and was thinking of the Silverstone Performance conversion as it's hassle free fitting etc. For someone who knows next to nothing about this subject (yet) I'm intrigued as to why you went for the Top Secret kit.
Nice stuff indeed Aaron, you'll have some fun with that. s:) :) s:)
nice flange Aaron!
Very excited for you!
Did you have to be so explicit with your title ? - you've got Russ all excited!
Quote from: "steveupton"For someone who knows next to nothing about this subject (yet) I'm intrigued as to why you went for the Top Secret kit.
Basically it came down to build quality and the fact that I absolutely adore the manifold & downpipe design. I love the fact that it comes out in the right location to mate up with the stock exhaust (and, thus, CAT for MOT time).
The PE kit does the same thing but I'm not a fan of the tiny PE1512S turbo, nor the design of the manifold on that kit (it's nice, I just think the downpipe is too convoluted).
I discounted the TTE kit long ago - despite the fact that I'll probably end up paying close to (if not more than) the price of the TTE kit, I strongly dislike the fact that the TTE gives you no way of monitoring it's health. It's truly meant to be "fit and forget", and I really don't like that idea in an aftermarket turbo system - how do you know if the boost pressure isn't right without a boost guage, for a start?
With all the talk about getting 'blown' and 'flanges' i really was half expecting to see some semi-nudity at least!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Only kidding.....in fact, please - no!!
Looks like a good bit of kit - keep toying with the idea myself.
Brain, wallet and pay cheque say no, however that doesnt stop me thinking about it. Guessing its all self install then?!
If i did end up going down the FI route I would want to do it myself...after all thats part of the fun isnt it?! (in my opinion anyway!)
Some nicely turned out gear there matey. I guess you'll be in the bedroom for a while s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
That is a gorgeously simple routing to the cat position.
Are you leaving it all shiny? or wrapping? or coating?
And is there bracing to consider?
The whole set up looks really nice Aaron, hope the install goes as planed, and I remember not long ago you could hardly afford to put petrol in your car s:roll: :roll: s:roll: how times change
Pete s:wink: :wink: s:wink: (Jealous mode on)
Hi Aaron nice bit of kit. I see you have you have the TTE twin on your car,when you fit the new kit are you going to sell it?If so i might well be intrested in it.
Ste - I'll either get it coated or coat it myself the el-cheapo way with spray ceramic in a can.. One or t'other.
Bracing is an issue - or could be - there's no attachment points on the bottom flange of the downpipe for the stock bracing, so I may see if I can get some welded on so I can use the standard manifold braces.
Sean - I haven't decided what'll happen to the TTE just yet, but if it comes up I'll bear you in mind s:) :) s:) I'll need to keep something that I can throw back on with the stock CAT for MOTs, though.
Ok Aaron Let me no if you do want to sell thanks
Ste's got a nice standard JDM exhaust handy Aaron, I'm sure he'd be happy to part with it s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Looks a quality piece of kit mate, very nice indeedy. s:D :D s:D
I'm really impressed on the overall quality.
Congrats! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Mind you a better title would have been,
Top secret, the story of Aaron getting blown! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "aaronjb"Quote from: "steveupton"I strongly dislike the fact that the TTE gives you no way of monitoring it's health. It's truly meant to be "fit and forget", and I really don't like that idea in an aftermarket turbo system - how do you know if the boost pressure isn't right without a boost guage, for a start?
Firstly mate Im so glad you are going turbo - cant wait to hear the updates, but on the point above - fitting a boost gauge (I have one) was a 30 minute job, splicing a tube t-piecing a hose and away I went. Not a big job at all.
BOT
J
Quote from: "aaronjb"It'll be interesting to see what lag is like, I think..
Let me know if you find the lag, I haven't found it on mine. s;) ;) s;)
Quote from: "aaronjb"Incidentally - I just checked and the Trust turbo uses a T25 inlet and five-bolt outlet flange, so it should be plug 'n play to swap to a GT28R/RS/2871 in the future - which is good news s:) :) s:)
There are a zillion turbos that with the exhaust side, but only a few that are also identical on the intake side. Trust/Greddy T518Z is one. Garrett has few models, like you already said. HKS also has few, but forgot the models, they are modified Garretts anyway. Apexi had one or two as well, made by IHI.
But just try the T517Z first, you might like it a lot. s;) ;) s;) I'm not sure if it's the turbo or other hardware (probably both), but you can get boost just below 2000rpm, have practically no lag and it's good for +400hp. s;) ;) s;)
Quote from: "Tem"But just try the T517Z first, you might like it a lot. s;) ;) s;) I'm not sure if it's the turbo or other hardware (probably both), but you can get boost just below 2000rpm, have practically no lag and it's good for +400hp. s;) ;) s;)
s;) ;) s;) Don't worry - you're the reason I'm not worried about bolting this all up with the Trust in place.. s:) :) s:)
Plain bearings don't scare me - I'm used to those on past cars, and I still remember back to the days when oil-cooled only was
the way to go for aftermarket turbos, so that's no issue either.. but I did wonder if there'd be more lag from the plain bearing.
Apparently not though s;) ;) s;)
Somehow I don't think I'll be shooting for 400bhp just yet though - I suspect I'd be shooting bits of engine internals all over the road if I turned the boost up that far s;) ;) s;) s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "aaronjb"I did wonder if there'd be more lag from the plain bearing.
I'm sure there is a difference, there kinda has to be, but it's just fractions of seconds. Would be interesting to try a BB turbo to see if you could notice any difference. s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "Tem"I'm sure there is a difference, there kinda has to be, but it's just fractions of seconds. Would be interesting to try a BB turbo to see if you could notice any difference. s8) 8) s8)
I'll just pinch Mark's when he's not looking s;) ;) s;) s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Although getting to some of the bolts with it all in the car will be a nightmare I feel - especially one of the dump-pipe bolts, as you can't get the nut on if you fully seat it against the turbo as it is - you have to put the dump pipe on just enough to get the nut on, and then seat it, or the nut just hits the pipework. Masterstroke of design, that bit s;) ;) s;) s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "aaronjb"Although getting to some of the bolts with it all in the car will be a nightmare I feel - especially one of the dump-pipe bolts, as you can't get the nut on if you fully seat it against the turbo as it is - you have to put the dump pipe on just enough to get the nut on, and then seat it, or the nut just hits the pipework. Masterstroke of design, that bit s;) ;) s;) s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
It's actually quite easy to remove the whole thing, just undo the 5 manifold/head nuts and 3 downpipe/exhaust bolts...and of course the intake pipes and you can lift the whole package up. s;) ;) s;)
Actually fair point - it's quite self contained if you pull it all as a unit s:) :) s:)
The turbo is a lot heavier than I remember turbos being mind.. either that or I'm getting weaker s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Its cos the turbo housing is made from Kryptonite and its sapping your powers Aaron. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
ok then Aaron, when are we getting together to fit it? s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
she looks a beaut though matey, the build quality looks second to none
Not for a little while yet I reckon - though you're welcome to come over for a look at it if you want s;) ;) s;)
I still need to get the remaining bits yet - PWR barrel, injectors, wideband, datalogit (there's one on eBay - no sod better buy it! s:lol: :lol: s:lol: ) etc.. I mean - I could throw it on with no intercooling, stock injectors and the PFC if I had the wideband..
Oooh that manifold is a work of art....! What power does the kit claim?
T
It doesn't claim any, but should make good power..
Dyno claims +250whp @ 10psi. s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "Tem"Dyno claims +250whp @ 10psi. s8) 8) s8)
I can live with that s;) ;) s;)
For now..
That does look like a quality bit of kit indeedy s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
reckon thats goin to be a £4.5K kit when finished though s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Easily... I should add up what it's all cost me at some point, but I don't want to scare myself.
Incidentally - I'm now also the proud owner of a Datalogit to go with the PFC s:) :) s:)
and a moroso plan I beleve :-) :-) :-)
Quote from: "markiii"and a moroso plan I beleve :-) :-) :-)
Looks like only the best will do for our Aaron s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "heathstimpson"Quote from: "markiii"and a moroso plan I beleve :-) :-) :-)
Looks like only the best will do for our Aaron s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Well, in for a penny and all that s;) ;) s;) If I'm spending nearly £3k on the turbo and a few bits of pipe, I might as well blow some more on a few sheets of ally welded together s;) ;) s;)
Quote from: "aaronjb"Quote from: "heathstimpson"Quote from: "markiii"and a moroso plan I beleve :-) :-) :-)
Looks like only the best will do for our Aaron s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Well, in for a penny and all that s;) ;) s;) If I'm spending nearly £3k on the turbo and a few bits of pipe, I might as well blow some more on a few sheets of ally welded together s;) ;) s;)
It looks so good though you have to have 1. It's just a shame you can't see it once it's on the car.
Ooh an update.. not exactly 'turbo kit' related, but as the kit is pretty useless without some kind of engine management..
I invested in a secondhand 1ZZ PFC + commander from the US, which arrived a little while ago, then added to that a secondhand Datalogit box and a copy of Kevin Beanes Copilot (http://spyderchat.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=45059) software.
It's been sitting around for a little while now, so I thought I'd see if it actually worked this afternoon s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Good news is, it does! And, after fixing the injector sizes (it's clearly been on a turbo'd car, as the injector size correction was set to 48%) it even idled smooth as silk. Datalogit, Copilot and FC-Edit all worked as expected, too:
Copilot being a dashboard - hmm.. Carputer? s;) ;) s;)
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010572.JPG)
PFC Commander showing realtime data in 8ch mode:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010575.JPG)
It even does realtime graphing - less useful right now, but perhaps useful if I get it to read a boost module:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/R0010577.JPG)
I've removed it again for the time being - a) so I can get my immobiliser back, and b) I need to compare the maps in the PFC to a base 1ZZ map and get the maps back to a sane place for an NA car.. then I think I might as well sling the PFC in and run with it for a while s;) ;) s;) Get some road tuning done with Copilot and see just how much advance I can run..
Shame we never got time to show you the odbc bluetooth stuff, I may also end up with a semi carputer like setup displaying the extra ecu info (pocket pc based)
So, I succumbed today:
3729 Heat Sink Bung Extender £66.00
3736 Stainless Bung and Plug kit £6.00
3781 XD-16 Standalone Gauge Kit (16 in 1) £239.00
Prices aren't too bad buying locally, so for once I'm not actually importing something from the US :icon_lol:
This will go in with the PFC once it arrives, and I'll work with it while NA for a while - I'll call it the LordTakuban method of going turbo s;) ;) s;)
[edit] The LT bit made more sense on SpyderChat - LT did the W/B O2 + PFC while NA, before adding a PE turbo.. so I'm rather following in his footsteps s:) :) s:)
Damn that's service - ordered Sunday evening, arrived today!
The guage - very pretty, changeable faces (you can program it to read other things) and there's a silver bezel included too:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/lc-1.jpg)
The sensor, controller, two O2 bungs (mostly for the stoppers!) and the O2 heat shield as the sensor is right next to the turbo outlet and it's only rated for <1300*F:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/wideband_o2_bits.jpg)
Hi Aaron,
Do you think that gauge will fit nicely in front of the rpm stock gauge or is too big?
That's where Corky and.. someone else (I forget who) have theirs fitted - it obscures <500rpm, but nothing else..
Personally I don't like the 'guages stuck to my guages' look though, so I'm going to put it in a navpod for now (or a Greggs guage pod, when he releases the RHD one!) - may move it to the front of the glovebox however, as I might put a carpc screen in the navpod instead..
Quote from: "spynish"Hi Aaron,
Do you think that gauge will fit nicely in front of the rpm stock gauge or is too big?
You mean like this
(http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6230/photo060619191ao7.jpg)
I like it, but not everyones' taste.
If only that gauge showed PSI s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Did it also come with a seperate controller Aaron? or is that built into the gauge?
There's a controller - it's just a sort of bulbous plastic thing sprouting out of the middle of the wires though, not a large box of tricks like the LM-1
[edit] Here's the controller:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/photos/innovate_controller.jpg)
Quote from: "Matt"If only that gauge showed PSI s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
There are changeable faces that do.. but, I have one of these for that:
(http://www.mindserv.co.uk/images/redguages640.jpg)
Actually those are in the other car - I'll probably get white faced ones for the '2, I think at least a Boost/EGT and Oil Pressure/Temp:
(http://www.spa-uk.co.uk/productpics/DG211z.jpg)
(http://www.spa-uk.co.uk/productpics/DG201z.jpg)
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Quote from: "spynish"Hi Aaron,
Do you think that gauge will fit nicely in front of the rpm stock gauge or is too big?
You mean like this
(http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6230/photo060619191ao7.jpg)
I like it, but not everyones' taste.
Yup, that's it.
A bit smaller would be ideal. Have been told that is possible to use differente gauges to plug the Innovaet wideband. Any idea of one that works and is 52mm?
Thank you for the pic, Aaron
Quote from: "spynish"A bit smaller would be ideal. Have been told that is possible to use differente gauges to plug the Innovaet wideband. Any idea of one that works and is 52mm?
Innovate has two programmable outputs, so basically you can run any gauge with it that works with a maximum voltage of 5V.
However, do NOT get a narrowband gauge for the Innovate. You might as well run it from a narrowband sensor, cause it won't be correct anyway.
...have you checked the new analog Innovate gauges, if you're looking for a cheaper solution?
Quote from: "Tem"...have you checked the new analog Innovate gauges, if you're looking for a cheaper solution?
They look really nice, I think - I nearly went for a secondhand LM-1 and the analogue guage..
I had not realized this one from Innovate is 52mm. I like it s8) 8) s8) :
(http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/images/DBkit_Dual_700.jpg)
I have everything there except the gauge I will use the prophec for that
I started fitting the LC-1 this lunchtime - I had hoped to get it at least wired in to the stock ECU, but it took a lot longer than I thought it would to run the wires through the grommet into the car (I hate wiring on cars!).
Anyone see any issues with my location for the controller? Options are, sadly, somewhat limited s:? :? s:?
[edit] Before I started I snipped the black (calibrate) wire and covered it with heat shrink - since the XD-16 guage and Copilot, both of which can initiate a calibrate via the serial interface, I don't need this wire:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/lc-1/photos/R0010580.jpg)
Turns out the battery stay works quite nicely as a 'puller' and 'hole poker' for the grommet:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/lc-1/photos/R0010584.jpg)
Although you need to slit the grommet slightly or there's no hope of getting the (rather giant) serial plugs through - I think I used half a roll of electrical tape taping wires to things to pull through:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/lc-1/photos/R0010586.jpg)
The controller ended up here - I wanted it on the main crossmember where the latch is, but without the drip tray in place it would be right under the rain, so that's out:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/lc-1/photos/R0010587.jpg)
The wires got cable tied to the bootlid alarm sensor, then to the fusebox wires, and they then run straight forward into the grommet:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/lc-1/photos/R0010588.jpg)
Comments?
I've taken the wires for mine back through the grommet on the drivers side, with the controller strapped to the back of the charcoal canister to shield it a little from the heat - I think where yours is it will get a bit toasty-warm once the turbo goes in s:flame: :flame: s:flame:
good point
Yeah - but when the turbo goes in the controller will likely have to move anyway s;) ;) s;) The O2 sensor will be about 6" to the left and 4" down from the position of B1S1 (which it'll currently be plugged into).
At that point there should be latitude to move the controller down onto the inner wing on the left where it'll be more out of the way (and can even be wrapped in heat protector stuff)
Ow, ow.. burnt fingers.. ow.. stupid soldering iron!
*blows on fingers some more*
s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
When using a soldering iron. Hold the cold plastic end, not the hot pointy metal end.
Quote from: "aaronjb"I thought it would to run the wires through the grommet into the car (I hate wiring on cars!).
Oh you did it like that. There's plenty of room for extra wiring through the grommet where the stock wires go, so you don't have to make any extra holes. Take the whole plastic grommet out, just push it either way, this makes it a lot easier to push stuff through it. Use some lubricant on the wires, like silicone spray, or soap. Then you can just push it through. And just push the grommet back in its place when you're done.
I might be forgetting something, but currently I have at least these through the original hole. Sensor wires for 6 GReddy gauges, control wires and vacuum(/pressure) hose for the Profec, wires for Innovate wideband, wires for water injection and water spray and a thick power cable for audiostuff. And it doesn't even feel tight yet, even when pushing some biggish connectors through it. The rubber stretches quite a lot, as long as it's not in the hole at the time.
QuoteAnyone see any issues with my location for the controller? Options are, sadly, somewhat limited s:? :? s:?
Like Steve already said, I bet it would die quite soon on that place. Heat is a major issue. I wouldn't keep it there even when you're still N/A. s:? :? s:?
I tried getting the grommet itself out - but I couldn't get it out of the firewall s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "Tem"Like Steve already said, I bet it would die quite soon on that place. Heat is a major issue. I wouldn't keep it there even when you're still N/A. s:? :? s:?
Hmm - I don't see anywhere else it can go though s:? :? s:? Not without me extending every single wire, that is - I'd have to extend both serial lines and all of the signal & power wires.. the wires are only about 100cm long - there's maybe 10-20cm inside the car at the moment..
Quote from: "aaronjb"I tried getting the grommet itself out - but I couldn't get it out of the firewall s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "Tem"Like Steve already said, I bet it would die quite soon on that place. Heat is a major issue. I wouldn't keep it there even when you're still N/A. s:? :? s:?
Hmm - I don't see anywhere else it can go though s:? :? s:? Not without me extending every single wire, that is - I'd have to extend both serial lines and all of the signal & power wires.. the wires are only about 100cm long - there's maybe 10-20cm inside the car at the moment..
I've taken my wires through the grommet on the drivers side, and extended the power and NB signal wires. Serial is easy - it's just a standard 3.5mm stereo headphone connector - prewired extension leads can be found at Maplin etc for a couple of quid. You only need to extend the serial out - serial in just needs the terminating plug in it (unless the XD16 needs it). As I said above, my WB controller is attached to the back of the carbon canister to give it a bit of protection from the radiated heat from the exhaust (doesnt seem to get too hot, even on track).
Hmm.. Damn you people s;) ;) s;)
Ok - I have to pull it out now (the LC-1, you deviants!) and reroute.. I was going to do that this lunchtime but I have to go into the office now s:( :( s:(
Ah well - it's going to be good weather at the weekend, at least - maybe I'll finally get this thing installed s;) ;) s;)
I'm not sure the wire from the sensor will reach the LC-1 if I mount it where yours is Steve - or rather it will when NA, but not when turbo (the O2 sensor hole is on the other side of the car), but perhaps I can find somewhere else cool & protected when I have the back bumper off at the weekend.
Quote from: "aaronjb"I'm not sure the wire from the sensor will reach the LC-1 if I mount it where yours is Steve - or rather it will when NA, but not when turbo (the O2 sensor hole is on the other side of the car), but perhaps I can find somewhere else cool & protected when I have the back bumper off at the weekend.
s:oops: :oops: s:oops: I meant to ask where your post-turbo bung would end up s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
What about somewhere behind the coolant bottle heat-shield (but away from the bottle s;) ;) s;) ) ?
That would definitely work post-turbo yep - the post-turbo bung will end up over the left hand side - roughly where B2S1 is, but a few inchest further down.
I think it's going to be hard to find somewhere that will work both before and after the turbo goes on thinking about it - as the sensors are on opposite sides of the engine bay.
Hopefully I can find somewhere that works and won't require me to put cables through firewalls to move everything - seeing as that's the bit I really hate doing s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "aaronjb"I tried getting the grommet itself out - but I couldn't get it out of the firewall s:? :? s:?
There's a groove in the rubber, which goes to the edge of the metal hole. Just push one side inwards (towards the center, where the wires go that is) and the rest should come off easily.
I tried that - mine was very stiff (ooer).. Either that or I'm exceptionally weak s:) :) s:)
Ok the latter is a possibility..
I'll give it another bash at the weekend I think - now to go and cut a zillion cable ties and pull it all back out!
Aaron, just to add a quick aside here, if you want one of those gauges that you showed on the previous page give me a shout first, I've got an unused one sat in a box still that I never got round to fitting. I believe it's an oil temp/pressure one, but I'll have to check. I think it's white faced too, but again will have to check.
Quote from: "Ekona"Aaron, just to add a quick aside here, if you want one of those gauges that you showed on the previous page give me a shout first, I've got an unused one sat in a box still that I never got round to fitting. I believe it's an oil temp/pressure one, but I'll have to check. I think it's white faced too, but again will have to check.
The SPA ones?
Dan I wub you. Wub you long time. Did I ever mention that? s;) ;) s;)
Yup, the SPA ones. I only bought it on your recommendation anyway! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I'll buy it!! Only looking at those yesterday. Aarons post said nothing about wanting it, just some funny puppy dog speak, I think s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
So I claim it on the timed post rule s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "roger"I'll buy it!! Only looking at those yesterday. Aarons post said nothing about wanting it, just some funny puppy dog speak, I think s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
So I claim it on the timed post rule s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Pmsl, this forum will self destuct in 12 days. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "roger"I'll buy it!! Only looking at those yesterday. Aarons post said nothing about wanting it, just some funny puppy dog speak, I think s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
So I claim it on the timed post rule s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Damn! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Well I'll buy them if Roger isn't claiming them s;) ;) s;)
I've got to find it first! And it is only the one Aaron, just the oil/oil one I think as I had boost shown on the Profec.
Won't get a chance to check until Monday as it's in the other van. Then you can fight over who gets it. s;) ;) s;)
Being the gentleman I am, I'll back away to the corner and hide. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
So I went back to installing the LC-1 today - more or less from scratch since I'd pulled it all out to prevent any damage from the first attempt..
The LC-1 itself is now cable tied to the back of the battery stay - the sensor wire nicely reaches there, and should still reach when the turbo is installed too:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/lc-1/photos/R0010597.JPG)
The wires are now encased in a neat little protector - they're a fiver from Maplin and designed for home cinema stuff, but make nice loom covers.
The extra wire you see disappearing off to the left (in the black ribbed case) is for the rear left EDFC motor for the Teins:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/lc-1/photos/R0010598.JPG)
Now I just have to do something with all of these:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/lc-1/photos/R0010600.JPG)
I've already tapped into the ECU +ve and -ve lines (I haven't connected the LC-1 to the tap yet) - but I notice my LC-1 loom has less wires than either the Innovate instructions say I should have or LT's instructions on SC..
I suspect this is because Innovate have tied together all of the grounds inside the LC-1 body now (I read they were planning on doing that to remove grounding issues), as I only have a blue (ground), but no green or silver grounds.
That just means I'll have to split my one ground into three (one to the ECU loom, one to the body and one to the Datalogit) for the O2 sensor signal to be read properly at all locations. I hope..
Ah - just going through the manual again (now I'm back in the warm indoors!), I suspect the white wire on mine is the system & analogue grounds tied together, so I'll need to branch that off to both the ECU ground and Datalogit ground, with my blue heater ground going to a body ground only.
I just tied all my grounds together on the ECU ground.
Worked a treat and pretty tidy
Cheers Nic - that's probably what I'll do, although I'm tempted to keep the heater ground on a chassis point.
Well - the exhaust and Amuse rear bar are both on. The exhaust is... loud. Very, very loud. Earsplittingly, mindbogglingly loud. It even massages your back, it's that loud.
But my god it's fun s;) ;) s;) and doesn't appear to have robbed any low-down power, even without the PFC in, which is quite impressive.
Exhaust fitted, Amuse bar on:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/exhaust/R0010602.JPG)
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/exhaust/R0010603.JPG)
Uh - I forgot the proper spring fixings so it's ghetto wire for now s:oops: :oops: s:oops: I'll put the springs on at home as it's an easy swap:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/exhaust/R0010604.JPG)
Exhaust paste is your friend:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/exhaust/R0010605.JPG)
And back together:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/exhaust/R0010607.JPG)
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/exhaust/R0010608.JPG)
s:shock: :shock: s:shock: That's a big f'ing pipe Aaron!
That pipe even looks loud! It looks too good to hide though, its a real work of art. s8) 8) s8)
Looks really nice Aaron; what's the cost of the Amuse bar s:?: :?: s:?:
so when we fitting the rest of it then Aaron?
Quote from: "kanujunkie"so when we fitting the rest of it then Aaron?
When he buys the rest of the bits me thinks s8) 8) s8)
pretty sure he has enough now, just the CC to go which could be done seperatley
Heath - I'm not sure what the cost of the Amuse bar is new - I got mine secondhand (well, third hand s:) :) s:) ) for £150, if memory serves. It's actually heavier than the stock bar, I think s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Looks nice through the Chromdesign grills, though s;) ;) s;)
Stu - I could really do with the injectors as well, before we fit the kit. Granted we could fit it and run ~0 boost, but.. you know temptation would get the better of me and I'd end up exploring the limits of the stock fuelling system s;) ;) s;) s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
However, I have the injector issue in hand.. should be sorted soon s;) ;) s;)
just make an amuse bar, not hard and probably wont cost a huge amount of money either
Quote from: "aaronjb"Heath - I'm not sure what the cost of the Amuse bar is new - I got mine secondhand (well, third hand s:) :) s:) ) for £150, if memory serves. It's actually heavier than the stock bar, I think s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Looks nice through the Chromdesign grills, though s;) ;) s;)
Stu - I could really do with the injectors as well, before we fit the kit. Granted we could fit it and run ~0 boost, but.. you know temptation would get the better of me and I'd end up exploring the limits of the stock fuelling system s;) ;) s;) s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
However, I have the injector issue in hand.. should be sorted soon s;) ;) s;)
Will you be requiring my soldering skills s:?: :?: s:?: s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "kanujunkie"just make an amuse bar, not hard and probably wont cost a huge amount of money either
Just about to do that myself. Will post a thread when I do.
Quote from: "aaronjb"The exhaust is... loud. Very, very loud. Earsplittingly, mindbogglingly loud. It even massages your back, it's that loud.
s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Now you just need to install the silencing unit between the engine and the exhaust. s;) ;) s;)
Quote from: "Tem"Now you just need to install the silencing unit between the engine and the exhaust. s;) ;) s;)
Sorry? Did someone say something? All I can hear is a ringing noise... s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Seriously, it's
that loud with no turbo in there! Heck, maybe I should put the turbo in and just wire the wastegate open s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Ah yes - forgot to say..
Finally got the LC-1 and XD-16 wired in today.. that took most of the day to complete - well, the entire day, actually - and I'd already pulled the wires through into the engine bay!
Horrible, horrible job - I hate wiring on cars.. but it's in, working and supplying the right NB O2 signal to the stock ECU (it's pretending to be B2S1). Interesting to see what mixtures the stock ECU runs - on WOT it seems to be from 13.5:1 to 11.5:1 (richening as the revs rise). Fairly safe NA map, then.
Now it's time to put the PFC in (maybe next weekend) as I've got a nice 3rd O2 CEL (because the 3rd O2 is sat in the passenger footwell s:lol: :lol: s:lol: )
Don't forget the turbo itself will actually quieten things down a little s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "Slacey"Don't forget the turbo itself will actually quieten things down a little s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Yep - a little.. hopefully it'll make it more liveable with - right now it's actually a little embarassing when you're trying to just pootle through town - there's no way to do it quietly anymore s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Pulling away past a police car parked on the M4 junction this morning was also a little worrying s;) ;) s;)
Quote from: "aaronjb"Yep - a little..
Actually quite a lot. s8) 8) s8)
I think you'll be happy with the noise levels once the turbo is on.
Quote from: "aaronjb"...right now it's actually a little embarassing when you're trying to just pootle through town - there's no way to do it quietly anymore s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
LOL, how do you think I feel s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Actually, it's not usually a bad thing, most people smile when they see me - after first hearing me coming their way.
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "aaronjb"Yep - a little..
Actually quite a lot. s8) 8) s8)
I think you'll be happy with the noise levels once the turbo is on.
I think so too - right now it's fun if you're tearing down country lanes, but the commute to work is a little .. deafening.
I think the entire office heard me come into the underground carpark today s:oops: :oops: s:oops: 'though it probably didn't help that I did a WOT flyby down the length of the carpark s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Quote from: "aaronjb"I did a WOT flyby down the length of the carpark s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Enjoy it while you can, you can't do long WOT runs with the turbo, or you'll end up going wayyyy too fast for most places. s;) ;) s;)
Quote from: "Tem"Enjoy it while you can, you can't do long WOT runs with the turbo, or you'll end up going wayyyy too fast for most places. s;) ;) s;)
Given how short our carpark is, I very nearly buried myself in the end wall as it was s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Hooligan!
So have you got the other gauges ready to fit Aaron? Now might be a good time if its the stuff you don't enjoy doing ... and then the Turbo install will be a breeze.
Unfortunately no - I only have the XD-16..
Oh, actually I do have the AVC-R, so I might tackle that another weekend - another job I'm not looking forward to s;) ;) s;)
At least it gave me a chance to hoover my passenger footwell, I suppose!
That exhaust did look the biz, and sound extremely fruity as well.
Beautifully made gear that you're using on this Aaron. s:) :) s:)
Is it louder than the Hass one Aaron s:?: :?: s:?:
yep :-) :-) :-) but oh my god are tunnels hilarious :-) :-) :-)
Quote from: "heathstimpson"Is it louder than the Hass one Aaron s:?: :?: s:?:
Oh yes -
lots (with no turbo in there to silence it) - it's actually deafening
inside the car..
It sounds incredible when you're giving it full beans, but it's quite tiring the rest of the time - it's slowed me down on the motorway for sure, no way I can cruise over 80 now!
Quote from: "aaronjb"Quote from: "heathstimpson"Is it louder than the Hass one Aaron s:?: :?: s:?:
Oh yes - lots (with no turbo in there to silence it) - it's actually deafening inside the car..
It sounds incredible when you're giving it full beans, but it's quite tiring the rest of the time - it's slowed me down on the motorway for sure, no way I can cruise over 80 now!
Now that's very loud s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Quote from: "aaronjb"no way I can cruise over 80 now!
s:scared: :scared: s:scared: s:flame: :flame: s:flame: I always cruise at 70, should that be a 7 instead of an 8 Aaron s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "FGRob"Quote from: "aaronjb"no way I can cruise over 80 now!
s:scared: :scared: s:scared: s:flame: :flame: s:flame: I always cruise at 70, should that be a 7 instead of an 8 Aaron s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Uh.. yes.. I mean.. 70.. s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
that slow?
Quote from: "kanujunkie"that slow?
Max speed in this country young Stu s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "kanujunkie"that slow?
You try sitting in it cruising any faster s:P :P s:P Honestly it makes yours, Mark's and Heath's all sound like grocery getters...
Quote from: "aaronjb"Quote from: "kanujunkie"that slow?
You try sitting in it cruising any faster s:P :P s:P Honestly it makes yours, Mark's and Heath's all sound like grocery getters...
s:shock: :shock: s:shock: Cannot believe that its that loud s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "heathstimpson"Cannot believe that its that loud s:? :? s:?
It really is. s:D :D s:D
Of course the turbo will silence it quite a lot, remember he doesn't have it on yet. s;) ;) s;)
Having heard this exhaust today, I can indeed confirm that it sounds like Godzilla on steroids.
Quote from: "Ekona"Having heard this exhaust today, I can indeed confirm that it sounds like Godzilla on steroids.
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: That is loud indeedy. I bet Aaron is acring all his local neighbours s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Well the PFC went in this weekend and it seems to be working just fine - knock stays under 25 (then again, the intake temp also stays below about 11C in this weather!) and it's got a decent pickup to it.
For some reason, though, it's idling at about 10:1 AFR (even when warm) and it's around that AFR at cruise too, so there's something a little off there. The fuel map is pretty rich, too, but not that rich - so something is up with the idle settings I'd guess.
I'd look into it more, but the LC-1 decided to stop working half way home tonight, and now all the XD-16 guage displays is "-.-.-" s:( :( s:( I'll have to check the wiring tomorrow morning before I go to work - that'll be a fun job, I'm sure (especially if it snows more!)
Hi, Aaron. I decided to post over here for a change. I think the reason load went offscale and AFR was rich all along was the Apexi intake.
Hey Beanie - I just replied 'over there' s:) :) s:)
Well, the turbo kit has finally seen an engine!
Unfortunately, only a mockup engine.. but, well.. one step nearer - and at least we've figured out how to fit the chargecooler in, and more or less what to do about bracing.
Here it is, in all it's glory:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/mockup_1.jpg)
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbo_kit/mockup_2.jpg)
Now.. I need to fab a heatshield of some form, I think, to go over the manifold (though it's such a shame to hide a work of art like that!), and a brace to go between the turbo and the block.
The chargecooler will be cut-n-shut into the long pipe that runs along the back of the engine, and I may squeeze a BOV fitting in between the MAF location and throttlebody inlet - or run BOV-less.. one or the other.
The Moroso pan also went on this weekend (no pictures of that - it's not very exciting to look at s:) :) s:) ), so the Rear Lower Cross Brace had to come off as the pan gets in the way of where that needs to go s:( :( s:(
So THAT's how it looks like without the IC. s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Quote from: "aaronjb"The Moroso pan also went on this weekend (no pictures of that - it's not very exciting to look at s:) :) s:) ), so the Rear Lower Cross Brace had to come off as the pan gets in the way of where that needs to go s:( :( s:(
That is a bit inconvenient! I thought the bracing was designed to fit the Moroso equipped car? Still waiting for a response to the question of having one that clears the oil filter.
Chris
Quote from: "ChrisGB"That is a bit inconvenient! I thought the bracing was designed to fit the Moroso equipped car? Still waiting for a response to the question of having one that clears the oil filter.
The Rear Member Brace (the big X one) was designed to clear the Moroso - and does so (although it makes swapping pans even more annoying than normal s:) :) s:) ), but the RLCB that goes across the car doesn't - there's no way it can, as the Moroso pan is extended toward the front of the car and actually wraps around (and is deeper than) the oil filter s:( :( s:(
I've also sent a mail to Web 3.0 to see if there's a way of making new ones that fit..
Sorry I couldn't help with the airflow curve. I posted on SC about it. An email to Apexi might be worth a shot.
So you have spare engines laying around just in case you have to mock up a turbo someday? s;) ;) s;)
Quote from: "Beanie"Sorry I couldn't help with the airflow curve. I posted on SC about it. An email to Apexi might be worth a shot.
No problem Kevin - your help is most appreciated as always s:) :) s:)
QuoteSo you have spare engines laying around just in case you have to mock up a turbo someday? s;) ;) s;)
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: No - we were in the middle of replacing the engine in another car and had got to the point where we were packing up for the night, so I thought I'd utilise the engine as a mockup rig, seeing as it was hanging right there in front of me s:) :) s:) (The grenaded engine, incidentally, had 0psi compression, and an oil pan full of
silver oil, there was that much metal in it!)
Quote from: "ChrisGB"That is a bit inconvenient! I thought the bracing was designed to fit the Moroso equipped car? Still waiting for a response to the question of having one that clears the oil filter.
I've just had a response back - there isn't, and will never be, an RLCB that clears the Moroso pan.. they just won't be making one.
Web 3.0 & Corky are, however, still planning on making one that clears the oil filter with the sandwich plate in place.
Quote from: "aaronjb"Web 3.0 & Corky are, however, still planning on making one that clears the oil filter with the sandwich plate in place.
Do those guys know about the oil coolers? Thats another hurdle some will need to clear.
briefly drifting.... are you planning traction control too Aaron? I only ask cos I've completely lost the information you posted about TC ages ago, and this is a sly way of getting you to repeat yourself s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "spit"Quote from: "aaronjb"Web 3.0 & Corky are, however, still planning on making one that clears the oil filter with the sandwich plate in place.
Do those guys know about the oil coolers? Thats another hurdle some will need to clear.
The oil cooler is what I was talking about - sorry if I wasn't clear s:) :) s:) I doubt they'll make one that will clear both the cooler and a sandwich plate.
Quoteare you planning traction control too Aaron? I only ask cos I've completely lost the information you posted about TC ages ago, and this is a sly way of getting you to repeat yourself s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I'd love to fit RLTC, but it's not cheap, and I'm pretty much broke again after buying all this stuff.. so it won't be for a while if I do fit it s:) :) s:)
The new RaceLogic system looks excellent - and the old system I had on my first 300ZX was awesome, so if this is an improvement..
Quote from: "aaronjb"The oil cooler is what I was talking about - sorry if I wasn't clear s:) :) s:) I doubt they'll make one that will clear both the cooler and a sandwich plate.
Does it touch the filter or the plates?
Would a remote mounted filter be an easy fix for this?
QuoteThe new RaceLogic system looks excellent - and the old system I had on my first 300ZX was awesome, so if this is an improvement..
I've been kinda waiting that someone would try it. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Not that you really need one, we do have huge grip with the weight on the rear wheels. Not that it helps too much on corners.
Quote from: "Tem"Does it touch the filter or the plates?
The filter itself - mine had a nice 1/8" dent in it when I took it off for the oil change & Moroso.. not a big dent or anything that would impede flow, it mostly just rattled annoyingly on lift-off.
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/rlcb.jpg)
QuoteWould a remote mounted filter be an easy fix for this?
Yes - it certainly would s:) :) s:) In fact that was my plan, right up until I bought the Moroso - and as you can see from the above pic, there's no way it'll fit now as the Moroso extends around and behind the oil filter (from the perspective of that shot) and is also 'deeper' than the oil filter is.
I may look into getting the RLCB modified with a curved bar to clear it all, or I may just go back to the stock braces..
QuoteI've been kinda waiting that someone would try it. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: Believe me the system is awesome.. it looks like the 'new' version is just an enhanced slip controller with an LCD screen (the old one just had a dial on it), so the main brains are the same.
It gave me huge confidence in the 300 - you could do just about anything and if you got it a bit wrong, the TC was there to save your butt s:) :) s:)
Aaron, if you're still interested in the RLTC there's a GB over on the VX site for up to 25% off: It's died a death due to lack of interest, but Thorney (the guy who runs TMS, where I take my car) has now mentioned that he'll be ordering a load in January for his race cars which should more than bring the total up to the max discount level. Might be worth sticking your head in over there if you're interested?
Quote from: "aaronjb"Quote from: "Tem"Does it touch the filter or the plates?
The filter itself - mine had a nice 1/8" dent in it when I took it off for the oil change & Moroso.. not a big dent or anything that would impede flow, it mostly just rattled annoyingly on lift-off.
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/rlcb.jpg)
QuoteWould a remote mounted filter be an easy fix for this?
Yes - it certainly would s:) :) s:) In fact that was my plan, right up until I bought the Moroso - and as you can see from the above pic, there's no way it'll fit now as the Moroso extends around and behind the oil filter (from the perspective of that shot) and is also 'deeper' than the oil filter is.
I may look into getting the RLCB modified with a curved bar to clear it all, or I may just go back to the stock braces..
QuoteI've been kinda waiting that someone would try it. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: Believe me the system is awesome.. it looks like the 'new' version is just an enhanced slip controller with an LCD screen (the old one just had a dial on it), so the main brains are the same.
It gave me huge confidence in the 300 - you could do just about anything and if you got it a bit wrong, the TC was there to save your butt s:) :) s:)
Don't suppose you have the filter still about. I was wondering how tall it is. I checked in Halfrauds the other day and the MR2 filter from them looks squatter. May be just because it was in white, but worth a measure up.
Chris
Aaron, is there anything else I can do for you? SC appears to be down now.
Quote from: "Beanie"Aaron, is there anything else I can do for you? SC appears to be down now.
Well.. I'm kinda hungry, breakfast would be good s;) ;) s;)
I kid.. actually I thought of a feature that would be nice (unless it's already there and I just can't find it) - a way to see what's currently in the Min Ign map.. I'm now running the "Find Insig. Knock" as my knock is all under about 20, but it would be nice to easily see how close I am to the minimums I've set.
Unless, like I say, that feature is there and I'm just going blind - entirely possible!
Quote from: "Ekona"Aaron, if you're still interested in the RLTC there's a GB over on the VX site for up to 25% off: It's died a death due to lack of interest, but Thorney (the guy who runs TMS, where I take my car) has now mentioned that he'll be ordering a load in January for his race cars which should more than bring the total up to the max discount level. Might be worth sticking your head in over there if you're interested?
Damnit, Dan! s:lol: :lol: s:lol: I need to start earning more...
Quote from: "ChrisGB"Don't suppose you have the filter still about. I was wondering how tall it is. I checked in Halfrauds the other day and the MR2 filter from them looks squatter. May be just because it was in white, but worth a measure up.
I don't, but from memory it was the same as the K&N and Purolator filters, and I think that was 70mm tall (excluding the rubber seal) - I should be under there on Saturday morning so I'll measure the K&N that's on there now.
You're right, you can't display the Min Ign map because I just put that map in and left out the ability to display it on purpose, to go easy on myself. You can display the Min and Max Base maps, though. A cell's border color will indicate whether or not auto tuning has "run into" a min or max value -- or both at one time or another. Green means auto tuning would have made it less than the min value, red means it would have made it more than the max value, and yellow means that at different times it would have exceeded both limits. There is no Max Ign map (unlike the case for the Base map). The border linewidth was the same as the regular (black) border linewidth, so it wasn't being displayed in all cases. Surrounding cells' borders draw right over it.
For the Ign map, when it wants to retard so much (or so many times) that the timing would be less than than the Min, it sets the value to the Min, sets the MIN flag (a permanent record of the fact this happened --- permanent meaning the flag stays that way until YOU clear it) and puts an alert in the log telling you it did that. For the Base map, when it wants to change a cell so much that it would be outside the Min or Max Base map, it only sets the MIN or MAX flag and put an alert in the log, but doesn't change the Base map cell at all. The reason for this is a wideband sensor may be going bad and you wouldn't want the auto tuning to actually use that information at all. Changes have to be 'reasonable' and you establish what is reasonable with your Min and Max Base maps.
I've got the special color border linewidth oversight fixed in the version I'm working on currently and will add the ability to display the Min Ign map.
Right - quick update time.. On Sunday, with the help of Mark and Nigel (markiii & loadswine), I fitted the Ogura ORC309 clutch I bought some time ago, along with a Euro 6-speed gearbox.
I think this is our quickest ever gearbox change - despite having to battle with a couple of things we didn't intend to have to battle with.. namely my silly TopSecret exhaust (which we had to remove as it has no flexi joint) and the passenger side axle which just would not come out of the gearbox despite some serious hammering.
Eventually it did but wow - that's the strongest snap-ring we've come across so far.
Anyway, some gratuitious shots of the clutch:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/clutch/DSC00078.JPG)
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/clutch/DSC00079.JPG)
And the flywheel section in place:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/clutch/DSC00081.JPG)
Clutch impressions are - wow.. this is not a clutch for most people, I suspect.
It's quite like having a car with an on-off switch, for a start, and it makes some weird noises s;) ;) s;)
It has a floating pressure plate - unlike most normal clutches (and RPS et al) where the pressure plate is bolted to the diaphragm - which means that when you have your foot on the clutch it 'chatters' because the pressure plate and clutch plate are free to rattle around on the retaining pegs on the flywheel.
Plus if you don't rev-match well on gearchanges it makes a rather strange burping noise s:lol: :lol: s:lol: as the pressure plate chatters against the disk when it struggles to spin the engine to road speed.
It's going to take some getting used to, for sure - and my left leg is getting one hell of a workout! I'll be walking in circles before you know it..
[edit] I forgot to mention - my stock clutch with 60k had virtually no meat left on it. It had fared well, but there was probably only 0.2mm of friction material left on the disc itself... definitely due for changing!
Quote from: "aaronjb"It has a floating pressure plate - unlike most normal clutches (and RPS et al) where the pressure plate is bolted to the diaphragm - which means that when you have your foot on the clutch it 'chatters' because the pressure plate and clutch plate are free to rattle around on the retaining pegs on the flywheel.
Plus if you don't rev-match well on gearchanges it makes a rather strange burping noise s:lol: :lol: s:lol: as the pressure plate chatters against the disk when it struggles to spin the engine to road speed.
Hi Aaron
Is that a combined clutch / flywheel assembly? Is it lighter than stock by any significant amount? Notice any improvement in low gear acceleration if that is the case?
Certainly looks nice. The Fabia has a floating pressure plate and it does make some "unconventional" noises on take up sometimes.
Chris
it's definately lighter
exact weights are in teh garage I'll post up later
Quote from: "ChrisGB"Is that a combined clutch / flywheel assembly? Is it lighter than stock by any significant amount? Notice any improvement in low gear acceleration if that is the case?
Yeah the clutch won't work without the flywheel (since the pressure plate is floating it needs to be retained by the large pegs that stick up from the flywheel in the 3rd pic).
As Mark says - quite a bit lighter, I think we dropped 5Kg of rotational mass - something around there, we wrote it all down (including the difference in weight between 5spd & 6spd gearboxes).
As for acceleration - I haven't really tested it yet, as all I've done is a drive to work s:) :) s:) So far what I've noticed most is that I
love having 6th gear - it makes cruising so much easier because I'm not being deafened by the exhaust anymore.
Worth the purchase price alone, that.
Seconded, but do you accidently put it in 4th when you go to reverse ? s:D :D s:D
I've hit the gates between gears a few times - they've all moved slightly.. and I'm always convinced I'm going to shoot backward instead of forward when I'm aiming for first gear s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "aaronjb"I've hit the gates between gears a few times - they've all moved slightly.. and I'm always convinced I'm going to shoot backward instead of forward when I'm aiming for first gear s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Wot no beeper?
That could make a fast getaway from the lights very interesting s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Did you see the reverse lockout on SC?
Chris
Not unless I swap wiring looms and dash clusters with a 2003 owner, nope.. no beeper for me.
Though I'm seriously thinking about wiring an indicator up somehow - I think I can find the feed for the reversing lights in the rear bins, and pull that up front for an LED or beeper circuit.
give it a week you will be used to it :-) :-) :-)
Quote from: "ChrisGB"Quote from: "aaronjb"It has a floating pressure plate - unlike most normal clutches (and RPS et al) where the pressure plate is bolted to the diaphragm - which means that when you have your foot on the clutch it 'chatters' because the pressure plate and clutch plate are free to rattle around on the retaining pegs on the flywheel.
Plus if you don't rev-match well on gearchanges it makes a rather strange burping noise s:lol: :lol: s:lol: as the pressure plate chatters against the disk when it struggles to spin the engine to road speed.
Hi Aaron
Is that a combined clutch / flywheel assembly? Is it lighter than stock by any significant amount? Notice any improvement in low gear acceleration if that is the case?
Certainly looks nice. The Fabia has a floating pressure plate and it does make some "unconventional" noises on take up sometimes.
Chris
as promised actual weights
stock flywheel 7Kg
new flywheel 4.5kg
stock clutch 4.5kg
new clutch 4kg
total rotating mass saved 3Kg
5 speed box weighs 40Kg
6 speed box weighs 43Kg
though the difference feels more when trying to lift the b*****d thing :-) :-) :-)
Nice one Aaron; what was the actual fit time as I need to sort something out myself soon and am currently deciding if to do myself or not s:?: :?: s:?:
we reckon 9 hours with 3 of us yesterday however
that was including an hour of aresache
so 8 hours should be about right
don't reckon toyota could beat that by much
Honestly this is one of those jobs where - if you can afford to pay.. I'd hand over the cash every time.
It's that much of an ballache.
Quote from: "markiii"give it a week you will be used to it :-) :-) :-)
I'm sure you're right s:) :) s:) Well I hope so anyway - at the moment I'm driving about like a learner again... stalling all over the place, kangarooing along in 1st.. s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Quite embarassing in traffic!
Quote from: "aaronjb"Honestly this is one of those jobs where - if you can afford to pay.. I'd hand over the cash every time.
It's that much of an ballache.
That's what I was thinking s:? :? s:?
£500 V a day spent spannering with mates
I quite enjoyed it :-) :-) :-)
Quote from: "markiii"£500 V a day spent spannering with mates
I quite enjoyed it :-) :-) :-)
Well when you put it like that .. s:) :) s:)
I'm almost used to the clutch now - only stalled it once on the way here s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
The flywheel is the perfect weight - there's no 'snap' when you get on & off the throttle in low gears now, which makes bimbling around town much smoother, and I think pick up is somewhat improved.
The clutch is
heavy though - so heavy that my clutch pedal has developed a creak s:shock: :shock: s:shock: Hopefully it's not about to snap off the firewall...
If it's anything like mine, your left leg will extra muscle tone, or RSI! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Speedbumps and crawling traffic are the real tests
Quote from: "markiii"£500 V a day spent spannering with mates
I quite enjoyed it :-) :-) :-)
But would I be able to persuade a gang to help do mine s:?: :?: s:?: s:? :? s:?
It was quite good fun really! Some of the humour is really bad, but still makes me laugh. I can't pick up a spanner these days without thinking about Aaron's "actress said to the bishop lines! " s8) 8) s8)
Don't even start that again s:evil: :evil: s:evil: s;) ;) s;)
Quote from: "Ekona"Don't even start that again s:evil: :evil: s:evil: s;) ;) s;)
As the actress said to the bishop..
Quote from: "heathstimpson"Quote from: "markiii"£500 V a day spent spannering with mates
I quite enjoyed it :-) :-) :-)
But would I be able to persuade a gang to help do mine s:?: :?: s:?: s:? :? s:?
I was wondering the exact same thing. I have the very same clutch, by the looks of it, waiting to go in. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "loadswine"It was quite good fun really! Some of the humour is really bad, but still makes me laugh. I can't pick up a spanner these days without thinking about Aaron's "actress said to the bishop lines! " s8) 8) s8)
I know the weekend Sam spent at Mark's, Aaron has got him saying that line ALL THE TIME NOW s:? :? s:? s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
That is quite the clutch you have there. I imagine you will buid some calf muscle.
Quote from: "Beanie"That is quite the clutch you have there. I imagine you will buid some calf muscle.
You're not wrong.. what's worse is that the bite point differs depending on the RPM you're launching at.. which makes traffic very tricky! Stalled it three times this morning stuck on the motorway s:? :? s:?
Anyway - the rest of the bits have come back from Camcoat, and very nice they look too s:D :D s:D I'll post pics later s;) ;) s;)
And here they are - exhaust manifold and downpipe are coated with Turbo-X inside and out, turbine housing has Turbo-X outside only and the compressor outlet pipe has Black Satin outside.
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/exhaust/coated_parts.jpg)
nice :-) :-) :-)
Horrible. That'll look rubbish on your motah.
I jest. Looks awesome matey. s8) 8) s8)
Mmmmm, sexeh
someone pass me some clean underwear s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
You don't wear underwear. I've got photos.
s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
They look fantastic s:D :D s:D
Very nice job Aaron s8) 8) s8)
ETA on fitting is...
This weekend s:) :) s:)
bugger, i'm away or i'd come give you a hand s:( :( s:(
Quote from: "kanujunkie"bugger, i'm away or i'd come give you a hand s:( :( s:(
Bah, I demand you cancel your plans! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Hopefully it'll just be 1 day fitting, with potentially another day fettling the tune because the MAF tube size changes along with the injector size..
Need to fit the boost controller as well, though - that will be a pain. Could definitely have used your sparky skills there s:) :) s:)
done, when we going over to Marks then for another get together? s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
That'll be the 16th!
s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Simon
Quote from: "SimonC_Here"That'll be the 16th!
s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Simon
meant to be working but i wonder if i can get it off, boss owes me a couple of days
Quote from: "kanujunkie"done, when we going over to Marks then for another get together? s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Well I'm there on Saturday s:lol: :lol: s:lol: You didn't think I was going to fit my turbo on my back in the carpark, did you? s;) ;) s;)
Dont forget Stu if you get bored you are supposed to be fitting my Springs with Aaron at some point too as to not feel left out s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "aaronjb"Quote from: "kanujunkie"bugger, i'm away or i'd come give you a hand s:( :( s:(
Bah, I demand you cancel your plans! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Hopefully it'll just be 1 day fitting, with potentially another day fettling the tune because the MAF tube size changes along with the injector size..
Need to fit the boost controller as well, though - that will be a pain. Could definitely have used your sparky skills there s:) :) s:)
Or mine s:?: :?: s:?: s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "heathstimpson"Or mine s:?: :?: s:?: s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Help is always appreciated s:) :) s:)
The plan is now for Sunday at Mark's.. I'm going to see if I can't get some bits done on Saturday round mine to prepare, but most of the work will be Sunday..
[edit] Mind we should probably check with Mark before everyone descends on his house on Sunday.. s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I left you guys at about 5pm and still no sign of a post... Either it's going really well or really bad, I hope it's the former!
I'll let Aaron do a proper explanation, but I'll tell you this much: Installed, it's a seriously impressive piece of kit and very well engineered. Also, Aaron spent the whole day getting covered in oil s;) ;) s;)
Quote from: "Ekona"Also, Aaron spent the whole day getting covered in oil s;) ;) s;)
Baby oil?? s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ...oooohhhhh
Quote from: "Liz"Baby oil?? s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ...oooohhhhh
Indeed - I was oiled all over! Like ROCs answer to a Chippendale.. almost.
Well - I'll do a proper post tomorrow but it's in and running, and running
well.
Considering there's no form of charge cooling right now (so I see intake temperatures of >60C on a 3C evening!) and I'm pulling an absolutel buttload of timing because of that, this thing
pulls like a train!
The exhaust is suddenly quite tame - lovely crackle when you're at full tilt, but actually quieter than the TTE when you're cruising (I found the TTE with gutted manifold had quite a drone to it).
There seems to be
zero turbo lag at wastegate boost - I mean, none at all. If you get off the throttle or you're just tickling it and get on it, the power is right there along with a lovely sucking noise s:D :D s:D As Mark found, it's really easy to balance it on the throttle -
in boost - while going around roundabouts s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
This kit is
awesome. Absolutely awesome.
Two downers on the day - I've no idea what boost I'm running because we couldn't get the AVC-R wired in fully (pressure sensor problems), and we didn't get the manifold brace fitted yet s:oops: :oops: s:oops: as long as it lasts a week till next weekend, we're good!
Pics on Mark's camera (and Dan's iPhone), so I'll get those posted as soon as he sends me the pics s:) :) s:)
Does that mean the ringing in your ears is replaced by a whistling?
Look forward to seeing it!
Chris
Welcome to the club matey s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s8) 8) s8)
have to say
not only is the build quality fabulous, but just as Aaron said she drives beautifully
no lag at all, throttle response is superb (may be down to teh PFC)
and the power, my god at 10psi and chargecooled this is going to be hilarious :-) :-) :-)
and exhaust wise it's teh best sounding roadster Turbo yet
Quote from: "ChrisGB"Does that mean the ringing in your ears is replaced by a whistling?
Yep - I no longer go deaf on long drives s:) :) s:)
There is definitely still tuning to be done - when warm it won't hold onto an idle properly (I suspect that's the injector lag settings), but the rest of the map is pretty much spot-on AFR wise, maybe needs a couple of degrees timing pulling in places - unsurprising given the intake temps, but other than that..
I'm in love all over again! (With my car)
(And you, if you're reading this s;) ;) s;) )
It's awesome - I keep wanting other cars to try it on now, just so I can get a feel for how it compares s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
I'll give you a go when mine is done! s:) :) s:) s;) ;) s;)
Simon
Great to see its all coming together Aaron, good work guys.
Enjoy the thrust s:P :P s:P
Quote from: "aaronjb"I'm in love all over again! (With my car)
(And you, if you're reading this s;) ;) s;) )
s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen: x
Quote from: "aaronjb"It's awesome - I keep wanting other cars to try it on now, just so I can get a feel for how it compares s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
You have another car..... fix it s:roll: :roll: s:roll: (or give me the bits s:D :D s:D s:D :D s:D )
Quote from: "SimonC_Here"I'll give you a go when mine is done! s:) :) s:) s;) ;) s;)
You'll win, I suspect s;) ;) s;) You have chargecooling and I don't.. now, maybe if I get the water injection fitted in time.. but I suspect not given the timescale for yours s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "spit"Enjoy the thrust s:P :P s:P
I do enjoy a good thrusting! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "miss_grumpy"You have another car..... fix it s:roll: :roll: s:roll: (or give me the bits s:D :D s:D s:D :D s:D )
Cheeky mare :p Keep your hands off my [car] bits.. s;) ;) s;) And I will get it fixed - just as soon as I get the bits to fix it, and can find the time to get it up to Mark's s:) :) s:)
Speaking of which.. Mark, you got those pictures off your camera yet? s:) :) s:)
pics on the way bud
Pics, courtesy of Mark's camera, and Dan's dodgy photography (apologies for the blurryness!)
Full gallery here (http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbokit_installed/)
(Click these for larger pics)
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbokit_installed/thumbs/DSCF2078.JPG) (http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbokit_installed/photos/DSCF2078.JPG)
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbokit_installed/thumbs/DSCF2080.JPG) (http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbokit_installed/photos/DSCF2080.JPG)
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbokit_installed/thumbs/DSCF2083.JPG) (http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbokit_installed/photos/DSCF2083.JPG)
Clearance is a bit tight here! Might need to modify the chassis rail with a lump hammer and 2x4:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbokit_installed/thumbs/DSCF2090.JPG) (http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbokit_installed/photos/DSCF2090.JPG)
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbokit_installed/thumbs/DSCF2094.JPG) (http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/turbokit_installed/photos/DSCF2094.JPG)
One! Just one blurry picture, and you pick up on it! *sulks*
Actually, that's all the pics you're going to get as all the ones of you covered in oil came out blurry as hell 'cos I was laughing too much s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "Ekona"One! Just one blurry picture, and you pick up on it! *sulks*
One? They all look like they were taken by someone going through withdrawl s:P :P s:P
QuoteActually, that's all the pics you're going to get as all the ones of you covered in oil came out blurry as hell 'cos I was laughing too much s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Shame - miss_grumpy probably would have enjoyed that one.. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
That looks mighty Aaron, so pleased you've got this fitted, well at least Stage one anyway.
You really must let someone else catch all the gunge in the pit!
Been following this quietly and ... nice one!!! From what you say it sounds fantastic and will be silly with a chargecooler and 10psi!!! very jelous!
Alex
Quote from: "aaronjb"Quote from: "ChrisGB"Does that mean the ringing in your ears is replaced by a whistling?
Yep - I no longer go deaf on long drives s:) :) s:)
There is definitely still tuning to be done - when warm it won't hold onto an idle properly (I suspect that's the injector lag settings),
Could just need an ECU restart. The I remember reading that the PFC needs a very specific cold start, warm and idle procedure on first use so it can learn the closed loop idle control.
Chris
Quote from: "ChrisGB"I remember reading that the PFC needs a very specific cold start, warm and idle procedure on first use so it can learn the closed loop idle control.
Yeah, it does. And it seems you get best results, if you do it again after major tuning changes around the idle area. I've done it like this:
1) Read everything from PFC to PC
2) Reset PFC through the Commander
3) Write everything back from PC to PFC
4) Do the idle learn procedure normally
I'm sure there are other ways too, but that has worked for me. s8) 8) s8)
Yeah - it'll hold a warm idle now, so I suspect it's doing it's learning thang.. there's conflicting evidence out there, but I did read a few people suggest that (rather like the stock ECU) it's actually always learning idle - obviously it can take it longer to adjust it's already-learnt parameters after big changes.
In fact - after I put it in the first time, I never did the idle-learn procedure (there was no way I could let it idle for 30 minutes with that exhaust on s:lol: :lol: s:lol: my neighbours would have lynched me!) and after a few weeks it learnt a nice stable idle..
Quote from: "aaronjb"Yeah - it'll hold a warm idle now, so I suspect it's doing it's learning thang.. there's conflicting evidence out there, but I did read a few people suggest that (rather like the stock ECU) it's actually always learning idle - obviously it can take it longer to adjust it's already-learnt parameters after big changes.
In fact - after I put it in the first time, I never did the idle-learn procedure (there was no way I could let it idle for 30 minutes with that exhaust on s:lol: :lol: s:lol: my neighbours would have lynched me!) and after a few weeks it learnt a nice stable idle..
It seems that it tries to learn the idle till it gets it right. After that it doesn't relearn it, unless you reset it. So if you do any major changes after the initial learning, it might not relearn.
...or it just takes longer than I had patience to wait for. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "Tem"...or it just takes longer than I had patience to wait for. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: Well at least it's much, much, much quieter now, so 30 minutes of idling will be bearable s;) ;) s;)
do it saturday whilst we fit Simons
I know just teh place to park it s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "markiii"I know just the place to park it s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: Can't think where you mean! s;) ;) s;)
Good plan, though - perfect time to do it.
Quote from: "markiii"do it saturday whilst we fit Simons
I know just the place to park it s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
You wicked man! s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Quote from: "aaronjb"Quote from: "markiii"I know just the place to park it s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: Can't think where you mean! s;) ;) s;)
Good plan, though - perfect time to do it.
Think it has to be a proper cold start?
Chris
So we didn't get chance to do the idle-learn at the weekend, nor the O-rings.. but never mind - we did get three other cars done s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Anyway - I had a chance to *cough* compare *cough* accelleration against Stu on the way home from Marks, and I have to say - I'm pretty pleased with how well I held up against him, considering I have no cooling whatsoever.
Apparently when I was 'on it' the entire exhaust system from the turbo down was glowing bright orange s:oops: :oops: s:oops: I think that's probably high-EGTs exacerbated by how retarded the ignition timing is with no kind of intake cooling and ~7psi of boost from a big blower s;) ;) s;)
Stu - what boost were you running when we were.. comparing?
Quote from: "aaronjb"Apparently when I was 'on it' the entire exhaust system from the turbo down was glowing bright orange s:oops: :oops: s:oops: I think that's probably high-EGTs exacerbated by how retarded the ignition timing is with no kind of intake cooling and ~7psi of boost from a big blower s;) ;) s;)
Stu - what boost were you running when we were.. comparing?
is that makeing it run slightly lean? is that the cause of the extra heat as well?.
It was bright enough for me to phone Aaron on the way home and tell him, really surprising the brightness it got to
i was running 10's at the time mate, impressed by it
Nah it's plenty rich on boost (11:1~10.8:1 - I'm dumping fuel to cool the cylinders), but the more you retard the ignition timing past 'optimal' the more energy you are dumping straight out of the exhaust port - that's why it feels so 'flat' in high gears at WOT - and that heats everything up something chronic.
It wouldn't surprise me if I'm seeing ~1000C at the exhaust port right now.
I really need to get that water/meth injection and/or chargecooler fitted s;) ;) s;)
I bet you all thought I was through with updates here, didn't you.. but no!
I got the new AVC-R fitted this afternoon - actually it took part of yesteday and most of this morning to fit. I had to extend the supplied loom by about the same length again in order for it to reach anywhere useful (like the ECU and engine bay) - these things are definitely designed for cars with engines at the other end..
Anyway, after butchering the other AVC-R loom I had and doubling the length of everything, then reassembling:
Dual analogue mode (here showing boost & RPM - you could also have the gauges showing any of the 6 logged data items):
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/avc-r/photos/dual_analogue.jpg)
Four-channel mode (there are 6 things you can watch - the other two being solenoid duty and injector duty):
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/avc-r/photos/4_channel.jpg)
Graphing mode:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/avc-r/photos/graphing.jpg)
There's also an RPM-vs-[boost/duty/etc] 2-d trace mode, and it will datalog up to 60 seconds of data internally for replay in graph mode (down to 10 seconds if you log four channels).
You can have two preset boost levels ('A' and 'B'), and each of those can have different boost levels depending on both RPM and the gear you're in. Each level also has a 'scramble boost' setting triggered by an external button (e.g. a steering wheel button). All in all it's a pretty clever bit of kit.
Except I haven't bothered hooking the solenoid up yet, so it can't do any of that right now s;) ;) s;) There's no point until I've actually got some intake cooling in there.
Oh - washed the car, too. Naturally it started raining right after:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/avc-r/photos/washed_and_turboed.jpg)
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/avc-r/photos/back_out_front.jpg)
High res gallery here (http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/avc-r/)
The AVC-R is a brilliant bit of kit by all accounts. Will give you something to endlessly tweak if you get bored too s;) ;) s;)
Yay! go team Aaron!!
Just been out for a blat and to try out a few different maps - I know which direction to go with the fuelling to sort out the idling and idle AFRs now. Also tried out a very different timing map - good pick up, but causes a lot of kangarooing in my car at low RPM - as well as a different VVT map which was very impressive.
Quote from: "kanujunkie"i was running 10's at the time mate, impressed by it
Interesting - now I know what boost I'm running, I see ~0.2Kg/cm^2 at 3000rpm up to ~0.45Kg/cm^2 at 6000rpm - that equates to about 6psi peak..
Not bad, then, considering the speed difference s;) ;) s;)
Once I'm actually using the boost controller that should help boost onset a lot - keeping the wastegate shut until the set boost, as it's most likely creeping open very early now (since there is zero preload on the actuator).
[edit] Oh yes - and after pumping my front tyres up from a measly 19psi (Nitrogen fills never need topping up eh Mark? s;) ;) s;) ) to 26psi, it no longer tramlines like a crazy demon s:D :D s:D
well never needed it when I had them :-) :-) :-)
any suscipous kids with squeeky voice in slough?
AVC-R has some "learning", correct? I think you program in the boost limit and it figures out how to switch the solenoid on/off. For other boost controllers, you have to set the duty cycle.
Yep - you have to set the initial duty cycle yourself so that you get more or less the boost you are looking for, then you let it self-learn the solenoid ramp times etc so that it homes in on your target boost.
Ooh this arrived today - all I need now is a bit of extra pipework and the reservoir:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/pwr_barrel.jpg)
It's ferking huge, by the way - much bigger than I imagined 6" diameter to be - even if I did measure the car up first s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
sounds like a plan for sunday then :-) :-) :-)
you've been a bit busy there Aaron s:shock: :shock: s:shock: and i see you dont need any help with the wireing. Did it take long then?
6psi, now that aint bad from stock s:shock: :shock: s:shock: still i feel a bit better now about the difference seeing as i've got 86K on the clock, thats 41K turbo'd and you probably have 1K turbo'd
as for the nitrogen fill, why wouldn't it leak with nitrogen, normal air is 78% nitrogen and that leaks fine, after tring the nitrogen fill i really think its overated and completely pointless on a road going car
Yay Aaron - looks great!
Nitrogen fill? I had it done at DemonTweeks during the meet, I only ever use the car on the road and it's great. Don't know if it's in the head, but I find the tyres far more predictable especially when being used hard.
Quote from: "kanujunkie"you've been a bit busy there Aaron s:shock: :shock: s:shock: and i see you dont need any help with the wireing. Did it take long then?
I managed it all on my tod.. are you proud? s;) ;) s;) It did take me the best part of two days though - I had to pull out the wiring we'd already installed (d'oh), then:
Redid the actuator plumbing and reconnected the charcoal canister solenoid to the vac piping.
Feed the wire from the display down the side of the dash (loosen dash end, prod wire in, make sure it's free etc).
Run the cables down the drivers sill.
Extend the sensor & actuator harnesses by a good 1-1.5m (these are crimp connections because I ran out of patience with the soldering iron - I need to get me a set of 'helping hands' before I burn the coffee table).
Extend the ECU loom side by about 1m - I used the extension harness I'd already made for this.. and then realise I'd chopped the plug end off when I meant to chop off the socket end (as I'd socketed it).
I figured that was a good place to stop on day 1 s;) ;) s;)
So day 2 I pulled the Autosport harness out and swapped the socket there for a plug instead, plugged the harness in, pulled the sensor wiring through the grommet, attached the sensor plug to my extension harness (bullet connectors here, taped up and covered in corrugated plastic harness wrap).
Quote6psi, now that aint bad from stock s:shock: :shock: s:shock: still i feel a bit better now about the difference seeing as i've got 86K on the clock, thats 41K turbo'd and you probably have 1K turbo'd
Ah - but don't forget, that's 6psi at redline.. when I get my foot down and for a reasonable amount of time I'm only seeing about 4psi.. un chargecooled.. with huge ignition retard.
Ahem s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s;) ;) s;)
Mark - can't fit the CC this weekend as I don't have the other plumbing yet s:( :( s:( I need some samco reducers (3" to 2.75" I think, but I need to check), some more 19mm hose as I doubt we have enough, elbows etc.. not to mention a reservoir of some description s;) ;) s;)
Incidentally - after reconnecting the charcoal canister solenoid something crossed my mind; I wonder if the PFC even has the code or driver lines to open the solenoid like the stock ECU, or if the whole thing is basically redundant now...
Quote from: "aaronjb"I managed it all on my tod.. are you proud? s;) ;) s;)
aye s:wink: :wink: s:wink: that i am lad, you'll go far
Quote from: "aaronjb"Ah - but don't forget, that's 6psi at redline.. when I get my foot down and for a reasonable amount of time I'm only seeing about 4psi.. un chargecooled.. with huge ignition retard.
Ahem s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s;) ;) s;)
ya bugger, mumble mumble, shakes fist in air, gets down on knees and begs Aaron for some tuning help s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
well it was removed in Niges if that helps
Quote from: "kanujunkie"you bugger, mumble mumble, shakes fist in air, gets down on knees and begs Aaron for some tuning help s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Me first! s;) ;) s;)
Got to get rid of the lean problem.
I think I'll get a whole map done after I get the clutch fitted. At ~90k miles I'm worried about my engine. s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Other than Aaron motorsports s;) ;) s;) recomendations for tuning shops around here?
Simon
I'd still go to Thor at Kenilworth
Actually they are pretty close to me.
Thor it is then.
Simon
tell them it is actually there MAP and just needs tweaking for you car due to xxxx
at most should cost you £250
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/pwr_barrel.jpg)
awwwwwwww s:( :( s:(
Quote from: "markiii"tell them it is actually there MAP and just needs tweaking for you car due to xxxx
at most should cost you £250
Sorry about wandering all over your thread Aaron!
Thor's website says £235 for a mapping session. Do we get a 10% off
that?
Just need the clutch... s;) ;) s;)
Simon
I doubt it but you can ask
i've asked in the past, its a no on that one
Aaron, do you have EGT gauges? I've mentioned this on spyderchat before -- a friend of mine has a lot of experience racing at the national level and tuning (big block Chevy, supercharged, does low 9s in the quarter mile). I've shown him Copilot and he said he'd want to be able to tune for EGT (not AFR like Copilot does) for a blown engine. That's what he does (all manually). I don't recall what he has for an ECU, but he does have control over fuel and timing and his system compensates for weather and altitude (he has a "weather station" in his car).
Two ideas:
1. Add ability to read and convert an analog input to EGT, log it, replay it, display it (virtual gauge).
2. Add a Target EGT map and ability to auto tune for that.
How to auto tune for EGT, though? Just via changes to the base map, just timing, or both?
Copilot work has been coming to a close because there isn't much else to do, so I might want to add EGT-related features at some point. I'm not sure when that would be. (I'm waiting for more information about the Boost part of the Advanced Data packet (which has real data in it for some Power FC (not ours)) so the virtual boost gauge and all the other things related to Boost will work.)
I don't have an EGT gauge in the Roadster - though I do have two in the Nissan.
I always thought tuning-by-EGT was considered "Ghetto tuning" however - I only had them on the Nissan to serve as warning devices (and eventually I'll add one to the Roadster for the same reason).
For me, they are nice to have because they'll tell you if something has gone horribly wrong with your tune, even though your AFR is fine - for example if you retard the timing too much, you'll end up with EGTs that are sky high, even though your AFR looks just peachy.
Personally I wouldn't use them as my sole tuning tool. For me they are affected by too many things (as I say, ignition timing, AFR and boost will all affect the EGT at the same time) - but maybe things are different in the Big Block world.
I imagine you'd have to tune just the base map based on EGT, as it would be virtually impossible to work out (or compute, rather) which way to go for timing based on the EGT. I'd say that would come down to an 'educated guess' on the part of the RHB (Real Human Brain) doing the tuning, based on what they know about the engine in their car..
A virtual gauge & EGT log would be very useful, however - even for me s:) :) s:)
I will have to talk with him again about to find out what his rules of thumb are. It could be useful. You can at least count on a virtual pyrometer/EGT gauge happening, probably within 2 weeks.
just out of interest guys, is EGT really quick enough in response time to tune from?? or even accurate enough? would really surprise me if it was
I'm just guessing at this point, but I would say the approach would be to 1) set timing approximately right, based on what others have found to be good for this engine 2) set the AFR to what you want while at the same timing retarding timing as necessary to prevent knock from becoming a problem, 3) allow both AFR and timing to change (within limits) until the EGT was within the limits you establish. EGT could be placed in maps like AFR is (average, minimum, maximum per cell). So the program could consider the min, max, or average. It could also do so only under certain conditions, like wide open throttle, engine has been running for X minutes, etc. Beyond trial and error, I don't know what the technique would be to make the EGT higher or lower. It makes sense to have a feature in an auto tuning program that would not allow EGT to be "too high" or "too low", however you define those paramaters. I think I'll just put the gauge in for now. I don't have as much free time anymore.
Quote from: "kanujunkie"just out of interest guys, is EGT really quick enough in response time to tune from?? or even accurate enough? would really surprise me if it was
A good EGT gauge is very fast. When I accidentally left one injector unplugged once, the Greddy EGT gauge was quick enough to notice the cold pulses coming from that cylinder. s8) 8) s8)
No idea about the accuracy, cause I don't have a clue how accurate it should be for tuning.
Quote from: "Tem"I accidentally left one injector unplugged once
That sounds like something I'd do! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "Tem"A good EGT gauge is very fast.
+1. My Greddy EGT saved the engine in the early days when the ECU was trying to reconcile mismatched O2 signals. Amazing how quickly temps rose towards 1000° just sitting in traffic s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Quote from: "Tem"a good EGT gauge is very fast. When I accidentally left one injector unplugged once, the Greddy EGT gauge was quick enough to notice the cold pulses coming from that cylinder. s8) 8) s8)
No idea about the accuracy, cause I don't have a clue how accurate it should be for tuning.
that is quick i agree but i just dont see it being accurate and good enough for tuning, if it was a optical pyrometer then that would be a different thing altogether but i doubt you can get them for vehicles somehow
aaron- have just read through this entire thread! phew!!
from what i can see you have the turbo on but cant let her off the lead 100% until you get the chargecooler etc on- any idea when this will be happening?
what else do you plan on doing to the car handling wise??
think a quick youtube vid of its exhaust would be nice too! s:D :D s:D
Well I'm still waiting on one piece before I can install the chargecooler (I need the expansion/header tank, and that's out of stock right now) - then I can get the boost wound up to ~8psi, tune properly and get some dyno time and finally see what it's actually putting down..
On the handling front there's not a lot left I can do really - I already have the full 3.0 Racing bracing set, Tein SuperStreet coilovers and sticky tyres. I could add fully adjustable and bush-less lower arms at both ends, but I think all that would achieve is adding adjustability that is beyond my comprehension to adjust s;) ;) s;) I'm no suspension geometry expert, by any means.
As for a vid.. well, if I had a video camera.. s:) :) s:)
ah- i didn;t know what level of bracing etc you had already
sounds like it will be a nice setup when finished- sure you dont want to commit yourself too much, but any ballpark figure on BHP output??
cant wait to hear about the result of this thing on a track! s:D :D s:D
Well I'm pretty sure that the rest of the setup is good enough to push the engine well outside of it's survivable range of power - I'd say it could see 300 at the crank, more if I went crazy..
Except the stock chocolate-rods would snap pretty quickly around there s;) ;) s;)
Something similar to Mark's is where I'm aiming - high 200's. I just have to resist the temptation to go for a 'glory figure' dyno run..
Well, the last required part of the chargecooler install turned up today:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/cc_reservoir.jpg)
Apologies for the dodgy camera phone pic - but that's the coolant reservoir (not a two-person bong, as my colleague suggested)
Now all I need to find is the time to actually install it, oh and get the bracketry to hold the chargecooler in place (I have that, but it's currently residing in Poole)
[edit] Damn - just remembered I still need the silicone couplers, too.. must measure that and get those ordered. Another three weeks before I can get this fitted, then s:( :( s:(
get them ordered and lets get a diary date
So, almost a year on from the original arrival of the turbo kit, and half a year on from installation and the turbo kit finally gets some kind of charge cooling going on! Hurrah!
It's a small Pace rad at the front - might be a little too small, or it might be that the number plate currently obscures about 60% of the rad, but the temp doesn't fall quite as fast as I'd like:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/cc/photos/DSC00011.JPG)
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/cc/photos/DSC00012.JPG)
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/cc/photos/DSC00023.JPG)
The overall setup at the back is, from Turbo out:
ATP Turbo 51mm three-bolt outlet
135° 51mm silicone elbow (now wrapped in reflective fibreglass tape, since we singed it a bit of a brown colour on the first run!)
90° 51mm aluminium elbow
76mm-51mm silicone reducer
6x6" PWR barrel
76mm-70mm silicone reducer
70mm aluminium elbow
70mm straight coupler
70mm plain (non-vaned) MAF tube
70mm aluminium elbow to the throttle body
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/cc/photos/DSC00018.JPG)
Rather a lot of yellow:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/cc/photos/DSC00019.JPG)
I ended up header-wrapping the exhaust manifold, too. Hard to get a good wrapping on it with the pipes being so close together, and with it in the engine bay - even harder to spray seal it!:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/cc/photos/DSC00020.JPG)
The CC barrel hangs on two giant stainless steel P clips from the deck-lid latch mechanism bolt locations:
(http://zion.mind-design.co.uk/roadster/cc/photos/DSC00021.JPG)
Inlet temperatures have reduced from some 65-70°C on WOT runs to 45°C peak after several prolonged runs through 2nd, 3rd, 4th and part way through 5th (:oops:), with cruising seeing temps from 25-30°C when mostly on vacuum on the motorway - down from a pre-CC average of 45-50°C.
Not a bad job, that, I reckon. Now I need to sort the fuel mapping out (it's a little rich now the temps are cooler) and fit the boost control solenoid from the AVCR to map a solid 8psi as a first stop.
'course there's always the water/meth injection I could fit, too....
[edit] I should add;
Thanks to Mark & Chris (Mark for the garage and his spannering, Chris for her excellent hospitality!), Stu, Phil and Dan for their assistance over the weekend, and to everyone who stopped me from torching the car when it was acting up recently!
Love the ghetto solution on that 135 pipe s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Glad you got it up and running matey, are you going to try and find a more elegant solution to that bend? Or just leave it and see how it goes?
the bend ended up fitting perfectly :-) :-) :-) with no rubbing
however it's so close to teh turbo that the first test run almost caused it to catch fire :-) :-) :-)
s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I believe our words were "can you smell burning?", "Yeah.. oh it's gone now, must be from someone else.."
Well as I think I posted elsewhere, I lost all four manifold->turbo nuts the other week, and one of the replacements kept insisting on dropping off, so..
This weekend I went up to Mark's, and we spent some of the day removing the manifold, turbo and downpipe (actually quite a quick process, all told) because I knew I'd blown out the gasket.
I didn't think it was this bad, however:
(http://i33.tinypic.com/9qirea.jpg)
Yes, that's all that was left of the gasket. Half of it. Whoops. Still, I guess when you're popping flames out of the leak, that's not surprising!
We replaced the four nuts after tightening the studs, and added Nissan locking plates (standard fit on the SR20DET & VG30DETT engines) to stop the nuts backing off), and while the turbo was off I also took the opportunity to wind some preload back onto the actuator to help it build boost more quickly and hit a higher peak.
I'm now seeing a peak of 10psi, and I'm using the boost controller to ramp boost as quickly as possibly by holding the pressure off the actuator completely until ~4000rpm.
Shiznit it got fast. Even 6th gear is turning into a pretty rapid gear.. 1st & 2nd are brutal, 3rd and 4th are pretty awesome, 5th and 6th are rapid. 80-100 happens very fast, even in 6th (hey, sometimes you need to escape BMW-idiot).
It now needs;
More ignition advance off-boost.
Less fuel on-boost (10:1 is far too rich for this engine).
Zero cam overlap >4000rpm and a properly set up VVT map.
Quote from: "aaronjb"I'm now seeing a peak of 10psi, and I'm using the boost controller to ramp boost as quickly as possibly by holding the pressure off the actuator completely until ~4000rpm.
How did you do that? s:D :D s:D
QuoteMore ignition advance off-boost.
I was basically using the N/A map that came with the PFC for off-boost cells.
QuoteLess fuel on-boost (10:1 is far too rich for this engine).
WHOA! That really is way too rich. Try some 11.5 if you want to be on the safe side. Or some 12.5 if you want to go for the power. s;) ;) s;) I think your CC should keep the temps low enough to handle that just fine.
QuoteZero cam overlap >4000rpm and a properly set up VVT map.
Overlap actually helps the turbo to spool up earlier and make more power with higher revs. Might wanna try leaving some overlap instead of taking it all away.
Looks like you are making progress! s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Hey Aaron
what way do you have the flow of water going through the CC?
do you think it would make a difference if you had a parallel flow with the air intake compared to a counter flow?
or does the air go through it that fast it wouldnt make a difference?
Quote from: "MR2 super GT"Hey Aaron
what way do you have the flow of water going through the CC?
do you think it would make a difference if you had a parallel flow with the air intake compared to a counter flow?
or does the air go through it that fast it wouldnt make a difference?
I've read that it should flow against the airflow. Here's the reasoning why.
1) Both flowing in the same direction. When hot air enters the cooler, it meets cold water and cools down. As it advances, the air keeps getting cooler while the water keeps getting hotter. In the end the air has cooled down some, but the water is too warm to cool the air anymore.
2) Water flowing against the air. When hot air enters the cooler, it meets warm water, which is still a lot cooler than hot air, which cools down. As it advances, the cooler air keeps getting colder water, which keeps cooling the air even more, cause the temperature difference stays bigger for longer than in 1).
No idea how big that difference is in degrees though.
thanks TEM I has suspected that was the best way but was not sure
My spokesman has already spoken, I see.. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Yeah - that's the way round we have mine plumbed, too, and the way the guy who runs chargecooler.co.uk reccommends too.
Oh - I put the track wheels on the car yesterday.. here seems as good a place as any to photo-whore:
(http://i36.tinypic.com/1zn78d5.jpg)
looking tasty aaron, hows the whole set up going for you? have you had it on the rollers ?
Nope, it's not been on the rollers.. it's working OK aside from the few teething troubles it's had, pulls well and makes good power.. I'd say not as much as the Hass/C2 at the moment but that's down to the tune being overly conservative.
It's probably not going to make it onto the rollers, though.. 'life' is happening at an alarming rate at the moment, so there's a very good chance it'll be back to stock and everything will be getting sold off before it's next MOT in April.
looks great, but just wish you'd get that 'ding' on the offside rear sorted s:D :D s:D
I've just been 'carparked', dent and scuff, no problem mate, 75 quid, so in it goes on Monday (the dent man comes in on Mondays and Fridays).
Oh there's more than just the one ding - there's two in the rear arch and a big crease in the door that you can't see in the photo.. someone decided to 'touch park' next to me in an NCP in Sheffield.. it took them three attempts, but I presume they managed it in the end.
Lifes a bitch s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Thought it was about time I resurrected this..
One new minor snag - another nut has dropped off the turbo->downpipe joint (silly spring washers).. still, that's not so bad - I'd fix that right now if it wasn't for the fact it's all roasting hot and it'd melt my fingers s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Time for some locking wire then?
Nah I'll just replace the plain nuts with .. erm.. I forget the name, but I have a bag of 'em somewhere s:) :) s:) This is the first time the turbo->downpipe ones have moved in probably 20,000 miles (unlike the manifold->turbo ones that came off every 5,000 until I added the Nissan locking plates) s:) :) s:)
Hopefully I've caught it before it blew a hole in the gasket, but we'll see.. if not I'll have some fiddly-ass nuts to undo tomorrow!
Quote from: "aaronjb"another nut has dropped off the turbo->downpipe joint
Interesting. I just noticed I seem to have a leak somewhere from the sound and noticed 3 of those nuts were gone and the 4th was loose. s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
That was roughly a week ago. And I'm pretty sure it was cause by excessive backpressure (or the heat related to it), cause they were there few days earlier when I put one of these in:
m http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/99-MM-JD ... ccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/99-MM-JDM-UNIVERSAL-MUFFLER-EXHAUST-REMOVABLE-SILENCER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem518ac01643QQitemZ350220195395QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories) m
Interesting theory Tem - I've not done anything to mine recently, though, so I suspect it's just down to heat cycles - either that or the gasket has broken down (which leads to the joint going loose, of course). Fortunately that's the easy joint to get to!
(BTW, I've been looking for a bung like that for ages.. nice find s:) :) s:) )
So.. what I thought was a blown gasket turned out to be this:
(http://i29.tinypic.com/t8xds3.jpg)
In case you can't spot it - that's a split weld in the manifold and it's almost 100% in two halves there. In fact, looking at it from more angles, it looks like the pipes no longer quite line up so I wonder if repeated heat cycles have relieved some stresses and eventually the stress overcame the weld.
Either way I'm now driving around with a stock manifold and Top Secret exhaust (which has essentially no silencer) which is insanely loud, oh and no power because the timing is still all retarded & rich with the 'turbo' tune in the PFC..
The way that has parted company, it looks like it was under stress when it was made and has found a way to settle. Any way of setting it up with a cast manifold? I have seen them for sale for the 1zz somewhere, but cannot recall where.
Chris
Quote from: "aaronjb"Either way I'm now driving around with a stock manifold and Top Secret exhaust (which has essentially no silencer) which is insanely loud, oh and no power because the timing is still all retarded & rich with the 'turbo' tune in the PFC..
I tried it once too and I'm not sure the Top Secret exhaust actually has a silencer or a loudener. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
You could just use the default PFC map, if you have your tune saved with Datalogit..
Quote from: "ChrisGB"The way that has parted company, it looks like it was under stress when it was made and has found a way to settle. Any way of setting it up with a cast manifold? I have seen them for sale for the 1zz somewhere, but cannot recall where.
You can get the cast manifolds from eBay. You'd need a custom downpipe to go with it and change the air piping too. And it looks like it would actually be worse, though it might last forever.
It's easy to reweld the TS manifold though, anyone with the skills&equipment should be able to do it. I'd go for that and I did when mine cracked.. s8) 8) s8)
Ouch .... and there i thought the TS manifold was such a work of art!
Looks like the tansion has won the day there, but getting it cleaned up and welded again should sort it as the tension will have gone out of th joint when it's re-wenlded.
I must admit there is quite a large temptation to remove the rest of the kit, now, and sell it on.. if there are any buyers out there, that is.. (after getting the manifold fixed, of course)
Quote from: "aaronjb"I must admit there is quite a large temptation to remove the rest of the kit, now, and sell it on.. if there are any buyers out there, that is.. (after getting the manifold fixed, of course)
Noooo, don't do it. s8) 8) s8)
What's keeping me from doing that at the moment is just how incredibly slow the car is now s:shock: :shock: s:shock: Granted it's partly because of the retarded & rich tune, but good lord.. I can't believe I lived with this for so long s;) ;) s;)
The manifold should be fixed in a couple of weeks - the split will be dressed & TIGged back up, and I'll get the manifold->turbo flange milled flat as it seems to be a little warped (I noticed that last time I took it off after what you mentioned, Tem), and hopefully I'll get them to have a look at the other welds and re-do any that look suspect so it's good for another couple of years s:) :) s:)
s:cry: :cry: s:cry: Tough break Aaron.
Can't recall if I shared the link to Che's latest piece of kit? Clicky (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyota-1ZZ-2ZZ-Turbo-Exhaust-Manifold-T25-T28-Flange_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em63Q2el1177QQhashZitem35a30a2467QQitemZ230368617575QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
It'll leave you with some work to do on alignment but it'll certainly solve this particular issue s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Yeah - that's too much work.. new exhaust, new intake pipework.. it's just not worth the money to do all that given how much the kit already cost and how much that would cost to do again (somewhere around £15-1700 I imagine).
I was just wondering have you (or anyone) ever seen turbo maps for the T517Z? s8) 8) s8)
I haven't - I went looking when I was evaluating kits & turbos, but was never able to track one down for this turbo s:( :( s:(
Quote from: "aaronjb"I haven't - I went looking when I was evaluating kits & turbos, but was never able to track one down for this turbo s:( :( s:(
Apparently the TD05-16G big should be very close, but not exact. Would be nice to get the real thing though. s8) 8) s8)
m http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/Turbo ... glarge.gif (http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/TurboMaps/td05-16glarge.gif) m
Quote from: "Tem"I was just wondering have you (or anyone) ever seen turbo maps for the T517Z? s8) 8) s8)
I actually have a Topsecret turbo kit with a with a modified manifold that will go on my 2zz. I will be using the MWR map as the base map. However the MWR map was made for 3inch maf pipe.
The Turbokits.com cast manifold may work on the topsecret kit. You may just have to modify the downpipe.The turbo flanges are the same. They developed their own nice cast manifold. They no longer us the crappy Hass log design.
(http://www.turbokits.com/images/1z-2z_thermocoating.jpg)
Quote from: "silversprint"Quote from: "Tem"I was just wondering have you (or anyone) ever seen turbo maps for the T517Z? s8) 8) s8)
I will be using the MWR map as the base map. However the MWR map was made for 3inch maf pipe.
I meant turbo efficiency maps, like this for TD05-16G:
(http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbo/TurboMaps/td05-16glarge.gif)
QuoteThe Turbokits.com cast manifold may work on the topsecret kit. You may just have to modify the downpipe.The turbo flanges are the same.
Yes, basically any T25-flanged manifold will work. You just have to modify/make the manifold and/or exhaust and possibly the intake/boost piping too, depends where the manifold positions it..
Greddy keeps the efficiency maps secret for some reason. Maybe because they don't want customers to know a T517 is pretty much a redone Mitsu turbo.
Quote from: "silversprint"Maybe because they don't want customers to know a T517 is pretty much a redone Mitsu turbo.
Probably not that, cause their pages say they build their turbos from Mitsu parts. s:D :D s:D
IIRC, T517 is a TD05 with 17C... But since the 17C was originally from TD06-17C, there are no Mitsu maps for TD05-17C. s:? :? s:?
Speaking of manifolds - mine is finally all welded up (after the first runner was welded, we noticed another split where the collector of all four pipes meet). Unfortunately the welding has warped the flanges, so now it's off to be milled flat on both flanges (which needed doing anyway really, since the turbo flange was never flat to start off with!).
Maybe I can finally get it back on in October.. it's depressing having a car where all the right hand pedal does is regulate noise, and do nothing for speed! (As the Civic owner found out tonight, much to his amusement...)