Hi all,
It's about time I wrote up on this project of mine for those interested in their turbo'd '2s.
First a quick history. I've owned my '2 for about 4 and a half years. Got the TTE turbo and the full SP exhaust system Christmas 2006 (thanks santa). Then got myself the SP240 back in February this year and had plans for uprating the internals this Christmas (oh santa you are good) so that I could crank up the boost.
However, during the Southern Softies fun run this summer I went and blew my head gasket s:( :( s:( . Rather than pay for that to be repaired now, I decided to get the engine rebuilt while they were at it. It turned out to be a good desicion as my bores had ovaled.
So, I had the engine rebuilt by Matt over at SP and it now comprises of the following components:
TTE turbo kit + uprated intercooler
Unichip
AEM boost controller
Crower Stage II FI cams
Crower Connecting Rods
Wiseco Pistons 8.8:1 compression
Darton Sleeves
MWR valve set
MWR ARP main/head stud kit
Toga oil pump
2ZZ water pump
Oil cooler + front mounted radiator
MWR 630cc injectors
SP exhaust system + down pipe
Fuel pressure reguator
Induction kit
The engine was run in and went off a few weeks ago to a dastek dealer to be mapped and for various reasons its taken them two weeks thus far to sort. Partly password complications with my existing unichip, partly I-don't-know. Boost has been turned up to 15 psi and the ponies have been counted at a jaw dropping 210 bhp s:shock: :shock: s:shock: Actually, that's not jaw dropping at all as I've lost 30 horses. Not good. Matt is going to pop over to them on Thursday and figure out where they've gone wrong or inform them their dyno's broken!
Expectations are between 320 and 360 bhp depending on what that tiny TTE turbo can sustain psi wise at the higher revs. I might have to get santa to provide a GT28 for Christmas this year.
The plan is for Matt to put this or something similar together as an SP Stage 3 option for a fixed price as they do with the basic TTET and SP240 packages. There's probably plenty of tweaking left to do with my car first though to get the drivability sorted. I might opt for a variable boost controller to feed the torque in smoother.
I'll update the thread on Thursday with the actual bhp achieved and post up the dyno plots when I get them.
Jason
well if 12psi on standard comp pistons get 270bhp I wonderi your going to need to run more than 15PSI with 8:8:1 pistons?
Quote from: "markiii"well if 12psi on standard comp pistons get 270bhp I wonderi your going to need to run more than 15PSI with 8:8:1 pistons?
Compression shouldn't affect that much. Going from 10.1:1 to 8.8:1 should only lose some 3-5%. Say he lost 5% and it would be ~255hp. After that the increase from 12psi to 15psi should be some +10%, roughly 280hp. The cams should make out even more.
Of course these are all very rough values, but should give some idea. I assume they retuned for the new engine? I'd like to blame the Unichip first, it has been known to have issues with bigger mods. s:( :( s:(
Quote from: "markiii"well if 12psi on standard comp pistons get 270bhp I wonderi your going to need to run more than 15PSI with 8:8:1 pistons?
At a guess I would say the valves arent opening wide enough or for long enough for the charge to get into the pots. I'm not sure where the TTE measures it's boost pressure from - is it pre or post TB? Either way you are measuring the pressure outside the pots and the 8.8 pistons effectively increase the charge volume (but not the displacement) so there is a
significantly larger volume of air trying to get into the engine.
well as I said to muffdan previously I tend to agree, that spec engine deserves a standalone ECU, certainly I'm amazed the unichip can cope with that size injectors
The large injector problem with the stock ecu is worked around by the fuel pressure regulator. The fuel pressure is reduced to below stock pressure for idling and increased (to way above stock) when on boost. Perhaps this work-around isn't going to work out and I will end up with a stand alone ECU.
The boost pressure is going to get turned up to the maximum the turbo can deliver, then turned back down to give a torque curve that keeps the car drivable. 15psi is the starting point, not sure what it'll end up at. Before the rebuild I was generating 240bhp at 9.7psi
Steve, I'm not sure where the boost pressure is read from.
Jason
A couple of things spring to mind. First, is the TTET turbo used capable of high boost at high RPM (where the big airflows and power numbers come)? Second, do you have AFR and boost plots, because they should show any loss of boost or wrong fuelling, making it easy enough to diagnose where and why they are having problems.
Chris
I've not heard back from SP yet on how it went yesterday but I'm chasing Matt for an update.
What the turbo can deliver is definitely a potential issue, but according to the mapping garage it's generating 70% more PSI at high revs than it was under the SP240 setup. Considering the SP240 delivers 240 BHP, this boost increase should more than compensate for the lower compression of the pistons and be delivering a lot more than 210 BHP. It does look like the turbo is going to be the bottleneck for the final figures whatever they turn out to be though so I'm going to start looking for a bolt-on replacement.
What I can't understand is how the boost guage can be reading a 70% higher PSI and that not translate into more BHP! Perhaps there's a boost leak.
Unfortunately all this is happening a long way from me and SP are the middle man, I'm not dealing directly with the mapping garage. This is a negative because I'm not 100% in the loop and I haven't seen any sort of plots, but it's a positive in that Matt is now working with the garage to sort this out for me.
Jason
you can have as much boost as you like, if teh fuelling map isn't right you won;t get any power at all
Worth checking the FPR is doing it's thing. If it is not, the boost increase actually reduces fuel throughput. An AFR trace will tell lots.
Chris
Quote from: "markiii"you can have as much boost as you like, if the fuelling map isn't right you won't get any power at all
You're right Mark, I'm told the AFR is good but I'm taking it all with a pinch of salt. The maths just isn't adding up here so something must have been overlooked or be is being read/interpretted wrong somewhere.
... Just spoke to Matt on the phone, the guy at the garage had a personal issue to deal with yesteday and had to postpone the mapping session to this afternoon. Hopefully Matt will get to the bottom of this by the end of the day.
Jason
Update.
Just spoke to Matt. He thinks the problem is the spring in the waste gate isn't stiff enough. Just got to order a new one and then it looks like I'm good to go!
Jason
Keep us updated Jason as this should be a beast but is not being beastly right now
Sounds like you'll have a stonkingly fast motor after it's all done, even more so that the already impressive sp240! s8) 8) s8)
Do you know why the head gasket went - there are cars running more, so is it a flaw the the ttet kit somewhere?
Slightly worrying that you survived 4.5 yrs without boost but only just over a year with the ttet and then just under a year with the sp240 - here's hoping i don't get boost addiction that bad!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
A few years ago I had an engine rebuild. The garage that did the job didn't put all the bits back on right and a belt pulley fell off whilst I was going along! The water pump stopped turning and the car overheated whilst I was finding somewhere to pull over and have a look at why my battery light had come on. That did the damage as it needed the water topping up every 2000 miles or so after that. MWR use the stock Toyota gasket on their 500+ HP car so I wouldn't worry about yours going pop Chris.
I should be collecting my car later today so should have some figures then, although they are still questionably low s:( :( s:( I'll be interested in some passenger rides at Angelsey next weekend to compare mine with some other kits!
Jason
Well you know how yours compared with mine on the Corfu run Jason, so that may give you a bit of a yardstick.
Ok, having collected the car and driven it 80 miles already I am pleased with the results despite the disappointing BHP figures below. The car pulls very hard when that torque kicks in but is still very drivable around town. There is work to be done to hit the horse power figures I'm after and a puzzle to figure out as to why the power curve is so flat! Our best guess is the turbo's too small for the FI cams 8.8:1 pistons, resulting in the lower power rating over the SP240 I started with. Anyone got any better ideas?! s:) :) s:)
Official figures are:
Torque: 260 ftlb @ 3900 rpm
Power: 225BHP @ 5700 rpm
POWER
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/MR2-power.jpg)
TORQUE
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/MR2-torque.jpg)
BOOST
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/MR2-boost.jpg)
To my eyes, it looks like the turbo is maxed out for flow. There is a very linear fall off of torque and boost from the peak numbers. I do not think the FI cams or LC pistons would have much to do with it. The LC pistons allow the big peak in torque to be obtained, but then the turbo seems unable to supply the volume of air needed as the revs (and thus the requirement for flow) rises. Boost seems to roughly halve as RPM demands roughly double the airflow.
Do you have AFR and advance plots also? It could be possible that the engine is unable to supply the fuelling (maxed MAF or injectors or fuel pressure limiting) but these problems could produce some pretty erratic curves.
Chris
thanks for the input Chris, much appreciated. I don't have any other plots unfortunately but I'm told the AFR is good. I did hear knock earlier so I'm going to have to get the map looked at again. The turbo I have was producing 240BHP with my old cams and pistons, with a slightly lower psi at the red line.
Jason
from memory its a T3 turbo so should be able to flow as much as a GT28R whihc is good for around 300bhp
I believe it's a T2 Mark but I might be mistaken.
Jason
Quote from: "muffdan"thanks for the input Chris, much appreciated. I don't have any other plots unfortunately but I'm told the AFR is good. I did hear knock earlier so I'm going to have to get the map looked at again. The turbo I have was producing 240BHP with my old cams and pistons, with a slightly lower psi at the red line.
Jason
The drop in peak power over the old setup may be a result of the LC pistons I suppose.
Any idea what RPM you were seeing knock at? Around peak boost / torque I would guess?
Chris
There was knock from 4k through to 6. It wasn't happening initially, took about 60 miles of driving before it started.
Jason
Update:
After it became evident last week that the turbo was in bad shape it has been taken off and is currently being refurbed by Turbo Dynamics with a larger compressor. Somehow the existing compressor blades got very badly chipped. Once its back and fitted it'll get shoved on the dyno once again. If it's not what I want it to be still I'll be upgrading to a GT28RS. Matt said he will buy my existing turbo off me at the refurb price if I do replace it with a bigger turbo making it worth a punt with the refurb.
Jason
That's a pretty positive approach, hope it gives what you're after mate.
I'd be slightly concerned where teh chipped missing bits went?
Quote from: "markiii"I'd be slightly concerned where the chipped missing bits went?
Hopefully into my old engine s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Update:
The turbo's back on and the smoke gone, but not much more power yet.
The problem now seems to be my cheapo AEM Truboost boost controller. I'll be replacing it with a Profec E-01 next week and then, hopefully I'll see some bigger bhp numbers.
Encouragingly during the latest mapping session my turbo produced 17 PSI at 6800 on the dyno, so it sounds to me like the turbo is big enough to push the air needed to produce the 300+ bhp I'm looking for (unless I'm not understaning something?). To get this high end boost level though it was producing big PSI @ 3800 which didn't make for a good torque curve or look good for my engine in the long term. With the variable boost control available through the E-01 we should be able to create a flatter torque curve to give the high end boost without the mid range peak.
Anyone got an E-01 for sale?!
Jason
Well that sounds like some really good news! Great to hear that youre one step closer to the big numbers!
Jason, dont forget the 80+ BHP increase from the Kirks install tomorrow!!
Its getting there Jason, you must be just a whisker away from the goal now.
Great stuff mate. s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "uktotty"Jason, dont forget the 80+ BHP increase from the Kirks install tomorrow!!
lol, I'm going to have to learn to live with any vibration I get from the Kirks no matter what I think. Mark at Rapid GB told me my engine twists significantly on the stock mounts when on full throttle.
Jason
As a future upgrade, you could always go for bigger torque mounts like I have, basically Mk2 turbo size, still silicone inserts, but no twist at all.
Or one of these m http://www.neweraparts.com/Default.aspx ... ductID=795 (http://www.neweraparts.com/Default.aspx?tabid=54&CategoryID=18&List=0&Level=a&ProductID=795) m
Quote from: "evileye_xc"Or one of these m http://www.neweraparts.com/Default.aspx ... ductID=795 (http://www.neweraparts.com/Default.aspx?tabid=54&CategoryID=18&List=0&Level=a&ProductID=795) m
That looks pretty interesting. Anyone actually used one of these?
Jason
FGRob has one (that he bought from Phil) and it attaches to his C-One rear strut brace.
Rob will be along to correct me but I'm pretty sure that Rob had the bearings within the damper replaced and upgraded. But once this had been done he is very happy with it and its performance
Quote from: "DannyN"FGRob has one (that he bought from Phil) and it attaches to his C-One rear strut brace.
Rob will be along to correct me but I'm pretty sure that Rob had the bearings within the damper replaced and upgraded. But once this had been done he is very happy with it and its performance
Yep once the bearing were replaced no real problems - just gives a bit more cam noise especially over 4500rpm - Love it.
Here's the thread with all the details and photo's : l viewtopic.php?f=7&t=20759&hilit=damper (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=20759&hilit=damper) l
Rob
Two pieces of news.
I got the Kirks in yesterday (cheers for the hand roger) and I am more than happy with the levels of noise and vibration. It's really only uncomfortable when pulling at low rpms, around 1500 which I tend to only do when rolling out of a junction in second gear or the likes. That's the good news.
The bad news is cylinder 3 has given up today. Continuous misfire (flashing cel) and plumes of blue smoke out the back. It sounds very unhealthy, clearly only running on 3 cylinders. Too early to know what has gone wrong and why at the moment!
Very upset about this at the moment as I have spent a lot of time and money on the best internals and rebuild with this engine over the last 6 months. I'll have to get it onto a flat bed and over to SP so Matt can figure out the details some time this week or next.
Bad times s:( :( s:(
Jason
Really really sad new Jason, I am sure you have a case tho, its not as if you did all the upgrades yourself.
See what SP say about the issue and see how soon they can fix it with no charge!
Gutted for you Jason, I'm sure Matt will get to the bottom of it for you.
Sad to hear that Jason - definitely let us know what happened to cylinder 3, please? Pictures would be great - I'm afraid I'd be expecting a collapsed ring land given your description (and knowledge of what kind of boost you were pushing etc).. not good.
Fingers crossed the bore is OK, if that's the case.
DAMN!!!
That's a rough deal Jason s:( :( s:(
Please don't give up though, we're really looking forwards to next years road trip s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Les
Quote from: "Les"Please don't give up though, we're really looking forwards to next years road trip s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Les
Considering this project has been running since June and I'm now probably worse off than when I started, the May road trip is probably a realistic and sensible target to aim for getting it fixed! I'm not feeling much love for the car at the moment but hoping it will pass over the next couple of weeks.
I've got a busy December with Christmas and Adele dropping out our second baby some time in the next week or so. I think I'll get the car up to SP and let Matt strip it down and investigated what's gone wrong on his back burner. Hopefully he can identify a cause too. I'll then make a big push in the new year to get it going again.
What is annoying is that the setup has only been mapped to 230 bhp and ~270 lb/f of torque. The internals should have had no problem what so ever at those levels. I suspect there's been a mistake made somewhere along the line. Be it in the manufacturing of the parts, the machine work fitting the sleeves, the machine work on the head, the assembly of the engine or the mapping. With four different companies involved in this rebuild, am I going to be able to assign 100% blame to one of the parties and is it fair to them to try to? Probably not. I fear I'm going to be footing the bill for this.
Jason
I certainly know how you feel, its a major disappointment when it doesn't work exactly as you hoped it would. I've had similar trials along the way as well. We need to encourage each other in things like this, and I'm sure you'll get it sorted and it will be fantastic when its all done.
I'm so happy our car is SMT so it won't be überfast with turbo kit anyway, that is what is keeping me away from boost right now. Well, that plus money factor and the fact that I only have driven the car like 2 km's. All this being said, I have "some" experience on what aftermarket/home brew boost is, I have boosted my MX6 V6 with pretty decent power figures. This car btw has been standing in garage for over 3 years now after the last incidence of feeling the need for more power, turbo swap and Link+ ems installation etc etc... All of this and the car still is FWD. s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
I guess I only have to take a ride in Tem's car to understand what my future will be. s:D :D s:D I'm soooo trying to stay away from that! s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
If I would, I think the TTE would pretty much be the one to get as it seems to be the only one that could be legal here.
Have a good time boosting and don't break anything up.
Mici
TTE on an smt won;t be slow by any means, drop a lightened flywheel in there and it wil love it :-) :-) :-)
Quote from: "markiii"TTE on an smt won;t be slow by any means, drop a lightened flywheel in there and it wil love it :-) :-) :-)
Mici, you heard what he said, just do it. s:P :P s:P
My wallet is already whining about buying the car. Yet, the boost is addicting and I've had some, so it is very, very hard to keep away from it, even if the car will be for my GF. s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:
Quote from: "Mici"even if the car will be for my GF. s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:
I've heard that even girls can drive a TTE turbo, right Liz? s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "markiii"TTE on an smt won;t be slow by any means, drop a lightened flywheel in there and it wil love it :-) :-) :-)
Hmm, so I could by the ttet in the for sale section and have two turbo'd beasts!! s:D :D s:D
Right, I'm back to fixing my car now, after getting a new born baby and Christmas/New Year out the way it's full steam ahead, depending how much steam my wallet can provide anyway.
Salvaged uprated internals from my current engine:
Crower Stage II FI cams
Crower Connecting Rods
ARP main and head stud kits
My shopping cart currently consists of:
MWR built block/head with:
Darton Sleeves
Wiseco 8.8:1 pistons
ported head
MWR valves
GT28RS turbo
Power FC
then a bag of bolts and couple of nuts later it'll be ready for a mapping to around 350 bhp (hopefully).
Here we go again!
Jason
Nice to hear you're back on it - good luck! s:D :D s:D
Looking forward to further updates on this one. Do you think porting the head will make much difference? Am thinking of new tweaks for additional power in the future
Phil
So why did the last incarnation of the engine destroy itself jason?
I take it you're going for a completely new engine now from MWR.
Ready for when we visit in March? s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "Les"Ready for when we visit in March? s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
it's pushing it but maybe. I might be running it in then so if I do have it we won't be able to have a play s:) :) s:)
This year's road trip is the real target to get it done.
Quote from: "loadswine"So why did the last incarnation of the engine destroy itself jason?
I take it you're going for a completely new engine now from MWR.
I don't think I'll ever know what the cause of the failure was. Piston 3 melted so it sounds like maybe the timing was too advanced or it was running lean. That's part of the reason for going down the Power FC route as I'm leaning towards blaming the stock ECU/Unichip Q combo not working together correctly. I must stress that is just my opinion and I have no idea if there were any issues with the mapping or perhaps automatic adjustments being made by the stock ECU overriding the uni-chip etc. I'll be getting lots of guages fitted to my new motor so I can keep an eye on oil temp and such. The Power FC will also give me knock readings.
The engine from MWR is not new, it'll be a reconditioned head and block.
Quote from: "evileye_xc"Do you think porting the head will make much difference? Am thinking of new tweaks for additional power in the future
not sure, but I might as well get it done! MWR claim it will make a difference to power through the whole rev range.
Sounds as if you've got a decent plan going there Jason. Matt doing the build again?
I assume you can still get the power FC, if not, a Link G4 is supposed to be absolutely brilliant has all sorts of goodies for controlling afr, boost and can incorporate launch control and flat gear changes as well. The Mk2 chaps and some of the V6 guys swear by these. I know of at least 2 very good mappers as well, Ryan from 2Bar Tuning and Nod I think does this stuff also and superb by all accounts.
Quote from: "muffdan"Piston 3 melted so it sounds like maybe the timing was too advanced or it was running lean.
SNAP!
Doh but it was piston 2. You win
Guages are definately the way forward. I didn't understand till it blew what use a EGT guage would be. Just need to find a cool way to mount them.
Sounds really good though. Wish I had the cash to get an engine from them. 350BHP is an exciting target.
I have a brand new egt gauge that I could always sell at cost to anyone who wants it.
I believe that the smarter ecus can fuel the centre cylinders a bit richer for cooler running if necessary.
I'm sure the PFC will do it but you'd have to be able to monitor the cylinders seperately to be able to set it up without guessing.
Quote from: "loadswine"Sounds as if you've got a decent plan going there Jason. Matt doing the build again?
I assume you can still get the power FC, if not, a Link G4 is supposed to be absolutely brilliant has all sorts of goodies for controlling afr, boost and can incorporate launch control and flat gear changes as well.
Launch control is pretty impressive! MWR have Power FC's in stock, I'm trying to get a good deal from them for ordering everything with them but we'll have to see if they go for it.
Matt is going to do the engine transplant and the work necessary to replace the tiny TTET with the GT28RS. Hopefully there's enough room to fit it in there!
Quote from: "custardavenger"Quote from: "muffdan"Piston 3 melted so it sounds like maybe the timing was too advanced or it was running lean.
SNAP!
Doh but it was piston 2. You win
Guages are definately the way forward. I didn't understand till it blew what use a EGT guage would be. Just need to find a cool way to mount them.
Sounds really good though. Wish I had the cash to get an engine from them. 350BHP is an exciting target.
The 'Melted Piston' club is one I wish both of us weren't members of s:( :( s:( I bought Stu's pillar gauge pod off him, so I have two empty slots to fill on that, and I also have a slot free where my AEM TruBoost controller presently is. The engine built from MWR isn't that badly priced considering what you're getting. It's a little frustrating that I've already paid for this set of kit once before though.
Quote from: "loadswine"I have a brand new egt gauge that I could always sell at cost to anyone who wants it.
I think I can take that off your hands Nige if it's a good looking bit of kit! Can you let me know which one it is? And how much you're looking for it!
Jason
Quote from: "aaronjb"Sad to hear that Jason - definitely let us know what happened to cylinder 3, please? Pictures would be great - I'm afraid I'd be expecting a collapsed ring land given your description (and knowledge of what kind of boost you were pushing etc).. not good.
Well, I was close s;) ;) s;)
I figured the tune had to be a
million miles out for you to have been putting down the power you were at the boost level you were.. and I think piston 3 paid the price.
Given the money you've already spent, I'm actually not sure I'd use the PFC (and I'm a big fan of the PFC!) - I'd be looking at the Link, or even a smaller MoTeC.. if you're shooting for the stars, you may as well do it properly s;) ;) s;)
Quote from: "aaronjb"I'd be looking at the Link, or even a smaller MoTeC.. if you're shooting for the stars, you may as well do it properly s;) ;) s;)
Link STORM G4, is this the one?
http://www.thor-racing.co.uk/Link_STORM_G4-THOR00371.asp
How does the boost controller on this compare to the boost controller on the PFC? Is it a variable boost controller? I'd prefer not to have a stand alone boost controller if I have the option. I do want to control the boost through the whole rev range though to keep the car drivable!
Jason
Ok, I'm sold on the G4, it is a fully variable boost controller. I've just been speaking to Thor about fitting/mapping it and I'm going to go ahead with that.
It has launch control and anti-lag!!!
I think I'll set up the launch control but leave out the anti lag s:) :) s:)
Jason
It is supposed to be the weapon of choice for tuners all over the place right now. It has a huge amount of features apparently, which make the boost control, launch etc all seem integrated. Another you might want to consider is the AEM system, but The Link looks good to me.
( Jason I'll PM you later on the egr)
Quote from: "muffdan"Quote from: "aaronjb"I'd be looking at the Link, or even a smaller MoTeC.. if you're shooting for the stars, you may as well do it properly s;) ;) s;)
Link STORM G4, is this the one?
http://www.thor-racing.co.uk/Link_STORM_G4-THOR00371.asp
How does the boost controller on this compare to the boost controller on the PFC? Is it a variable boost controller? I'd prefer not to have a stand alone boost controller if I have the option. I do want to control the boost through the whole rev range though to keep the car drivable!
Jason
PFC has no boost control
See the link does Launch control, and that is functionality from the Race Logic Traction Control. i was wondering if the link can be used instead of a RLTC or do you still neeed both for the TC/slip part?
Phil
Quote from: "markiii"PFC has no boost control
Indeed - not on our cars, anyway. On cars that were factory turbo it does (or can have, but it's expensive, and not that advanced) - but on our cars.. there's no option for any kind of MAP or boost control, sadly.
Update:
Engine ordered to the following spec:
MWR Built 1ZZ Engine (head ported)
Darton Sleeves
Wiseco Piston Set - 8.8:1
ARP studs
Crower Stage II FI Cams
Crower Rods
MWR Valve Spring Kit
MWR Titanium Valve Retainer Set
Turbo ordered from FRSport : GT28RS - .64 A/R
Unfortunately MWR can only get it shipped to (air)port at London, I have to arrange transport myself from there. Delivery network perhaps anyone? s:scared: :scared: s:scared: s:D :D s:D
Also ordered me the Cruise Control kit from MWR and seriously thinking about a Racelogic Traction Control system.
Jason
Cherching. You didn't forget to tick many boxes on the order form did you. s:D :D s:D
Should be awsome when finished.
Quote from: "custardavenger"Cherching. You didn't forget to tick many boxes on the order form did you. s:D :D s:D
Should be awsome when finished.
The price is not pretty. The G4 is going to cost a load of coin too. Oh, I've added an uprated fuel pump to the order and SP has found me a Moroso sump also.
Jason
I bet it isn't. Well you've got all the right components for a proper gearbox killer. I hope it all comes together well. When do you expect the engine to arrive?
There's a 3 week wait for 1zz builds, and another 1 to 1.5 week for delivery. I also need to get them my current engine before they'll ship the new one out. SP are getting the pipe work for the GT28RS sorted before he drops my engine out and ships it. That work is waiting on the arrive of the turbo/exhaust flange which I'm expecting to be delivered in the next few days.
I'm hoping my gear box makes it to Corfu and back before I need to upgrade that. The last Corfu trip killed my last box!
Jason
Nice work Jason. You've gone for a killer spec! Looking forward to seeing this complete. Without meaning to sound rude and asking about costs, was the shipping to/from MWR for the engine as expensive as you'd imagine or not that bad? Obviously it pails in comparison to the cost of the project, but was curious.
How much does it cost to ship your engine to America? Have you spoken to Rogue out of curiosity mate for them to doyou a build? Exchange rate currently has to be similair and Rogue are the Shizzle! Plus they are in the UK, they sell the Link, so the car would be pretty much all built for you, mapped and ready to drive away, and if you have a problem, drive it back :p
Quote from: "Star_69"Nice work Jason. You've gone for a killer spec! Looking forward to seeing this complete. Without meaning to sound rude and asking about costs, was the shipping to/from MWR for the engine as expensive as you'd imagine or not that bad? Obviously it pails in comparison to the cost of the project, but was curious.
Cost for shipping by air is $900, which for an engine isn't that bad I guess, pity about having to move it from London to SP myself though, guess I'll have to hire a van.
Jason
I recon this may fit in the back of my 4x4 Jason and I work near Heathrow
Quote from: "muffdan"Quote from: "Star_69"Nice work Jason. You've gone for a killer spec! Looking forward to seeing this complete. Without meaning to sound rude and asking about costs, was the shipping to/from MWR for the engine as expensive as you'd imagine or not that bad? Obviously it pails in comparison to the cost of the project, but was curious.
Cost for shipping by air is $900, which for an engine isn't that bad I guess, pity about having to move it from London to SP myself though, guess I'll have to hire a van.
Jason
There are pallet services, which cost about £70, don't know what they would be like to collect from the airport. For the cost of fuel though and hiring a van pallet is good. Guessing thats how it would come over as well.
Unlikely to come in a Van, most of the time these days they put them on Planes, its quicker and they carry more stuff
I mean't it should come on a pallet on the plane :p So he does not have to worry about how the people would collect it as it would be already strapped up ready to get lifted straight onto a truck and delivered.
m http://www.parcelbroker.co.uk/palletdelivery.html (http://www.parcelbroker.co.uk/palletdelivery.html) m
worth looking up.
Quote from: "Ilogik"How much does it cost to ship your engine to America? Have you spoken to Rogue out of curiosity mate for them to doyou a build? Exchange rate currently has to be similair and Rogue are the Shizzle! Plus they are in the UK, they sell the Link, so the car would be pretty much all built for you, mapped and ready to drive away, and if you have a problem, drive it back :p
Not sure on the price of shipping mine to America, will find out in a few weeks!
I haven't spoken to Rogue about the 1zz rebuild. I would expect they would source the parts from MWR anyway and not sure if they can perform the block work. I have PM'd Patrick about fitting the G4 and mapping it though. He hasn't got back to me yet. SP are also in touch with Rogue and Matt is going to talk to Patrick about mapping my car too.
MWR have built lots of engines to this spec, boring out the head and fitting the sleeves is not cheap over here but they are charging just $600 for it. Basically they are building/supplying the engine with all the forged internals listed and flying it to the UK for $6600 which in my opinion is a bargain.
Jason
Quote from: "uktotty"I recon this may fit in the back of my 4x4 Jason and I work near Heathrow
Might take you up on that Russ! Will have to wait and see which airport it'll be arriving at.
Quote from: "Ilogik"I mean't it should come on a pallet on the plane :p So he does not have to worry about how the people would collect it as it would be already strapped up ready to get lifted straight onto a truck and delivered.
m http://www.parcelbroker.co.uk/palletdelivery.html (http://www.parcelbroker.co.uk/palletdelivery.html) m
worth looking up.
Cheers, I'll check them out as an option. Not sure if I have to be there in person to collect it etc. If I do, then I might has well collect and deliver it myself.
Jason
Rogue can do all that plus more
check out this MK2 build
m http://www.mr2oc.co.uk/ForumsPro/viewto ... rt=30.html (http://www.mr2oc.co.uk/ForumsPro/viewtopic/t=104214/finish=15/start=30.html) m
The care and time, as well as customer service is second to none.
Yeah $900 shipping is very good! MWR are so highly rated on all the lotus, celica, corolla and MR2 forums its unreal and I dont blame you for getting it all done in one. I'm with Ilogik on the pallet front. Cost me 65quid to ship my engine and with the fuel costs both ways, day's leave from work etc, its worth considering. Good luck!
Interesting stuff mate, good luck with it. If you need a good courier to get things to the States, drop me a pm.
Just ordered me some 60mm Defi Link White face gauges. An EGT and Oil Temp to fit my (Stu's old) Greddy gauge pillar mount.
Just need a nice little toggle switch for the two boost mappings now s:) :) s:) And maybe (definitely) a switch to turn the traction control off too. s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Jason
If you're going for the Link G4, there is a nice looking display screen to go with it. Link display i think its called, that's if you've got any room left. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "loadswine"If you're going for the Link G4, there is a nice looking display screen to go with it. Link display i think its called, that's if you've got any room left. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Yeah, I have my eye on the display unit, unfortunately my wallet isn't going to be able to stretch the £500+ for it s:( :( s:( . It was the display unit or traction control! I'll be getting it at some point in the future though as the information it displays is fantastic. I especially want the air intake temp and knock readouts.
Are you getting the display unit Nige?
Quote from: "muffdan"And maybe (definitely) a switch to turn the traction control off too. s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
How about http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=Traction_Control-Products_and_Pricing-Digital_Adjuster s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:
Me thinks this has got the potential to be a very interesting and fun drive to Corfu this year s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "Les"Me thinks this has got the potential to be a very interesting and fun drive to Corfu this year s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Interesting indeed. I'm very concerned about the lack of time I'm going to have between getting this car finished and the trip. Hopefully reliability won't be a problem, but we might have to do some checks now and then to make sure nothing's working itself loose etc s:) :) s:)
Just added this matching Defi boost gauge to my gauge order:
(http://www.egauges.com/images/Defi/DF01903.jpg)
A close-ish match to the standard gauges with the exception of this have green back lights s:( :( s:( Oh well, I think they'll look pretty good during the day at least!
Jason
Quote from: "Star_69"Quote from: "muffdan"And maybe (definitely) a switch to turn the traction control off too. s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
How about http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=Traction_Control-Products_and_Pricing-Digital_Adjuster s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:
Yeah, I think I'll be making a pass on that Brad!
Quote from: "muffdan"A close-ish match to the standard gauges with the exception of this have green back lights s:( :( s:( Oh well, I think they'll look pretty good during the day at least!
On here (http://www.grdstore.com/defi-dlink-imperial-52mm-boost-gauge-white-p-1919.html) it says that the light comes from LEDs - can you change the bulbs to get a different colour? Or is it EL on the white ones?
Quote from: "StuM"Quote from: "muffdan"A close-ish match to the standard gauges with the exception of this have green back lights s:( :( s:( Oh well, I think they'll look pretty good during the day at least!
On here (http://www.grdstore.com/defi-dlink-imperial-52mm-boost-gauge-white-p-1919.html) it says that the light comes from LEDs - can you change the bulbs to get a different colour? Or is it EL on the white ones?
Possibly
Ok, all parts for Round 2 ordered, JUST got to put it all together s:) :) s:) . The setup will consist of:
MWR built 1ZZ
Ported head
MWR valves
MWR spring set
ARP main/head stud kit
Wiseco Pistons 8.8:1 compression
Darton Sleeves
Crower Stage II FI cams
Crower Connecting Rods
Link Storm G4 ECU (low/high boost maps + anti lag switchable + 8k red line, maybe a bit lower, haven't decided yet)
MWR 630cc injectors
MWR uprated fuel pump (250 l/h)
MWR Cruise Control
SARD Fuel pressure reguator
GT28RS turbo
Custom Intercooler
SARD BOV
Toga oil pump
Oil cooler + front mounted radiator
Oil Catch can
2ZZ water pump
Moroso sump
Exidy Ceramic clutch
SP exhaust system + down pipe
SP Induction kit
SP12 wheels + Toyo rubber
Defi gauges - EGT / Oil Temp / Boost
Race Logic Traction Control Unit is going to have to wait; penny pile is running low. s:( :( s:(
The thinking from the guys in the know is this setup should be good for 340 bhp, fingers crossed. A good safe pair of maps is a higher priority than the figures.
Jason
Quote from: "StuM"Quote from: "muffdan"A close-ish match to the standard gauges with the exception of this have green back lights s:( :( s:( Oh well, I think they'll look pretty good during the day at least!
On here (http://www.grdstore.com/defi-dlink-imperial-52mm-boost-gauge-white-p-1919.html) it says that the light comes from LEDs - can you change the bulbs to get a different colour? Or is it EL on the white ones?
Had a look at the gauges, they're sealed units and almost impossible to find as they've been discontinued for 2 years. I think I'll leave them be rather than risk breaking them. It's taken me a month to source them all and each supplier that had them only had one left in stock.
Jason
Awesome! Can I call a 'shotgun' for when its finished? s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "Star_69"Awesome! Can I call a 'shotgun' for when its finished? s:D :D s:D
You certianly can mate, and I wouldn't mind a ride in yours either should we ever meet up!
Wow Jason you reall have ticked all the options. When finish mapped I recon you'll be getting everything out of a 1ZZ that you ever could.
Just a question
Race Logic Traction Control is great and you can dial in slip etc but not sure of cost
You've gone for the Link G4 Storm (£825ish) where the Link G4 Xtreme (£1284) has traction control and a host of other features
Now I haven't looked into the Link (but will be doing as they do look good) but does seam to be better value for money to upgrade that than add the racelogic? Is it maybe that you wouldn't use the other feature as you'll be getting the car mapped for you and not get involved in the ECU after that?
The Storm G4 has launch control, but this isn't achieved through true traction control. I'd assumed (perhaps wrongly?) that the Extreme was the same. I'll talk to Thor about it and see what they say! It could be a good call if it's proper traction control. Not sure I need any of the other features it offers but as you say, it's cheaper than the Storm + Race Logic route. However, I bet the Race Logic is better. As you sau, you can change the slip for the road/conditions with a dash mounted dial. Very cool!
I haven't had a chance to look into the G4 properly yet. If the Storm has it then thats probably the same system as in the Xtreme. How do you mean "isn't achieved through true traction control"?
The thing with the Race logic is I was never sure if it's just a very exspensive knob? When you've had your fun playing with the settings are you ever going to need to adjust it other than turning it on and off? I have to say that traction control isn't something I've looked into or something I think I will need to invest in.
Whats the going rate for the Race logic?
Just read through this entire thread for the first time, great read, looking forward to the next bit of progress s:D :D s:D
Adam
the launch control system holds the revs for you at a set RPM and you simply floor it. The rpm is tuned to get the best start.
Oh right I see. Launch/traction control. Good wording there. I supose you could probably input a wheel signal but think they have missed a trick there. Race Logic it is then.
Amazing list muffdan!! s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Really looking forward to see the outcome..I can relate how excited you are!! s:) :) s:)
About the Racelogic traction control,i am waiting to read your review,since it is something that i am thinking to get also.
Here's the melted piston s:( :( s:(
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/piston1.JPG)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/piston2.JPG)
Blimey what a mess! No wonder it lunched the engine.
presume teh tune was at issue? no way teh power levels should have done that
yeah, I think the tune was most likely the issue.
s:scared: :scared: s:scared:
Lots of unhealthy words come to mind seeing that piston ... "Jeez" being the kindest!
Not as bad as a conversation i heard yesterday someone on the phone talking to a mechanic...
Mechanic : "So it's turning over and not firing up, just turn it over and let me listen over the phone"
pause .....
Mechanic : "That's turning over very rapidly for a Focus diesel, so what were you doing before it stopped running?"
pause....
Mechanic : "So you cleaned out all the intake piping with brake cleaner, and have put it all back together, did you had the intercooler off to make sure it was empty of brake cleaner?"
pause ....
Mechanic : "and when you started it up it reved like mad, wouldn't turn off till it stopped all by itsef?"
pause ....
Mechanic : "Well i think it's going to need to come in for a look, but the bill might be a bit large"
Hmmm ..... strike one Focus diesel then!
And I thought I did a good job of a piston. Clearly I'm an amature. s:) :) s:) Was it just the one? And out of interest which one?
Holy pants, that piston is fubar.
So will this delay getting the car back?
Quote from: "custardavenger"And I thought I did a good job of a piston. Clearly I'm an amature. s:) :) s:) Was it just the one? And out of interest which one?
Piston 3, the others had minor damage in comparison
Quote from: "uktotty"Holy pants, that piston is fubar.
So will this delay getting the car back?
Not at all, this was the damage done back in November!
Quote from: "muffdan"Quote from: "custardavenger"And I thought I did a good job of a piston. Clearly I'm an amature. s:) :) s:) Was it just the one? And out of interest which one?
Piston 3, the others had minor damage in comparison
Too lean?
Chris
Quote from: "ChrisGB"Too lean?
Looks that way to me - detonation took out the side of the piston, and the resulting shrapnel did the rest of the damage - if I had to guess..
Holy c**p Jason, just seen this, that really is toasted, is this the MWR engine?
Quote from: "kanujunkie"Holy c**p Jason, just seen this, that really is toasted, is this the MWR engine?
No, it was a wiseco piston from my rebuild last September. Hopefully I'll avoid a repeat of this with the MWR built engine and Thor mapping; that mess cost me big bucks s:( :( s:( .
Update:
Engine build complete and being shipped on Monday. Car booked in with Thor for running in and fitting/mapping the G4 on the 20th April. Leave for Corfu on the 26th April hopefully!
Jason
We're going on the 27th Jason so are you worried that I might be a bit faster than you? s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
lol, we're driving down to Tony's on the 26th s:) :) s:)
Blimey what a shakedown run! With a G4 and a Thor map, hopefully it should be all good. s8) 8) s8)
(http://www.judoforum.com/style_emoticons/default/popcorn.gif)
Engine arrived and has been fitted with no major problems! The head required a hole to be tapped for a coolant pipe, I'm guessing the head didn't come from an MR2 1ZZ. All good though, turbo's being fitted next week and then off to Thor a week on Monday for the G4 fitting and map s:) :) s:)
Great stuff mate, glad you've not got an empty bay any more. Really interested to see what Thor's expertise does for the project, should be totally ace! s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "muffdan"The head required a hole to be tapped for a coolant pipe, I'm guessing the head didn't come from an MR2 1ZZ.
If you ordered the engine from the US then it wouldnt have the hole in it, as the US spec cars didnt get the oil cooler as standard.
Quote from: "SteveJ"Quote from: "muffdan"The head required a hole to be tapped for a coolant pipe, I'm guessing the head didn't come from an MR2 1ZZ.
If you ordered the engine from the US then it wouldnt have the hole in it, as the US spec cars didnt get the oil cooler as standard.
Cheers for the info Steve!
The turbo is mostly installed now. MAF has been moved post IC. Wide band o2 sensor fitted. Defi gauges fitted, cruise control fitted but not tested. 03 headlights fitted (write-up to follow). Heated seats fitted. Engine start button fitted.
The turbo install will be finished tomorrow / Saturday and the engine will be fired up for the first time. Then off to Thor on Monday morning for the G4 fitting, engine run-in, high / low boost mappings and anti-lag setup.
Fingers crossed there'll be no issues found when starting it up!
So close now, I should be driving my car again this time next week for the first time in 5 months s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce: !
EXCELLENT! s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
Let us know how you get on s:) :) s:)
good luck hope all go's well for you s:D :D s:D
Awesome! Bet you feel like a kid xmas eve s:D :D s:D
Start buttons a nice touch
Be careful, that sounds like it will bite!!
Ok, it's been an interesting weekend. Couldn't get the engine to run with all the mods and just the stock ECU so it was moved over to Thor today on a trailer. Everything major except the G4 fitting and mapping is done and it's down to the Thor team to finish the job off. They are going to try and get the car done for end of day Friday. The Corfu trip begins on Sunday s:shock: :shock: s:shock: . Assuming everything goes to plan and there are no problems, Is it crazy to take the car on the road trip or do I use the fallback Passat?! Answers on a post card s:) :) s:)
it's very very brave put it that way
I wouldn't risk it myself. If you do then stop at least every 100 miles and check everything is tight and in place.
It's more than crazy, it's bordering on insane. I wouldn't take a normal turbo'd car on a trip like that straight after installation, much less one that's been done up like yours.
the snagging list could be endless, some gremlins may take time to show themselves. good luck either way, think you'll need it s:) :) s:)
I can see the temptation s:D :D s:D If everything appears solid enough and you have a fair batch of tools going with you, it might be worth a punt with boost turned down. That said, the fun is travelling as a group and if there's a worry you'll hold things up or get left behind it might be more sensible to go in the pace car s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Engine is a no-go. MWR forgot to tighten the 4 circumferential bolts on the VVT hub and one vibrated out and cut a hole in the cover filling the sump with swarf. The engine has run for less than 5 minutes at tickover so what other damage the swarf might have done is unknown at this point. s:( :( s:(
s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
Oh man, that is awful to hear.
Gutted for you mate. I'd like to think you'd get away with that and shavings would get caught in sump and filter. Would be looking full strip, new chain and seals and sending the bill to MWR.
s:scared: :scared: s:scared: Argh, feel for you matey - still better here than over in Corfu!
Yep, strip, fix, and have MWR pay the bill, you deserve better for the price you've paid.
Quote from: "custardavenger"Gutted for you mate. I'd like to think you'd get away with that and shavings would get caught in sump and filter. Would be looking full strip, new chain and seals and sending the bill to MWR.
And a new oil pump, tensioner plate, chain slipper etc.
pics:
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/engine/VVTbolt/06010001.JPG)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/engine/VVTbolt/06010002.JPG)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/engine/VVTbolt/06010003.JPG)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/engine/VVTbolt/06010004.JPG)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/engine/VVTbolt/06010005.JPG)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/engine/VVTbolt/06010006.JPG)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/engine/VVTbolt/06010007.JPG)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/engine/VVTbolt/06010008.JPG)
Oh dear, mine hasnt been turned over yet and also has issues. s:( :( s:( I thought MWR were supposed to be the best.
Forgetting to tighten some nuts is a mistake I am willing to understand. What will really form my opionion of MWR is how they deal with this. Reading their warranty terms and conditions, there is no warranty s:shock: :shock: s:shock: !
I have to say they were fair when I returned my clutch so I can only hope they are with you. Definately not good for their reputation, I would expect it from an ebay recon but MWR are selling "race prepared" engines.
yes, I hope they see me right. I think the photographic evidence is conclusive to prove I'm not trying to get one over on them. It will suck if they want the engine sent back to them though.
good luck, if any of teh bits you need are stadard bits give me a shout
Quote from: "markiii"good luck, if any of the bits you need are stadard bits give me a shout
Thanks mark.
Quote from: "muffdan"It will suck if they want the engine sent back to them though.
I agree and we have kept my engine unstarted in case they did want it back to check it over. However they have fairly quickly arranged a new gasket for me so I hope that will be the only problem.
My engine was also going round to Thor to be mapped when the problem came to light, I bet they are getting fed up of break down roadsters messing with their dyno schedule. s:D :D s:D
Sorry about your trip, try not to let it ruin things.
/Philster.
I really hope you paid by credit card for all that, else you're going to have real fun getting MWR to pay for anything I fear... s:| :| s:|
Sorry Jason but "forgetting" to tighten something up is not "one of those things" It's incompetence and my biggest fear would be what else have they "forgotten" to tighten up!!! s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "Les"Sorry Jason but "forgetting" to tighten something up is not "one of those things" It's incompetence and my biggest fear would be what else have they "forgotten" to tighten up!!! s:? :? s:?
tending to agree Les
if DIY I'd put it down to a big fubar, but for someone who makes a living building these it's a little more than an oversight
MWR are building me a replacement as we speak. They'll ship it out early next week and then once the new one is fitted, I'm to send my old new s:? :? s:? one back. They'll cover the postage of both shipments, but I have to cover the labour for the swap.
whos covering teh import duty your going to get collared for?
Shouldn't be any import duty due to it being replacement goods and returned goods. There's a procedure for this sort of thing I believe? I've had something similar before and not had to pay the duty.
Quote from: "muffdan"Shouldn't be any import duty due to it being replacement goods and returned goods. There's a procedure for this sort of thing I believe? I've had something similar before and not had to pay the duty.
in principle yes, that said I usually find the inland revenue, forget, confident that the process for resolving it is so complicated you won;t bother
I'd make sure Matt is agreeing to pick it up if you do get stung
good of them to change it for you, I hate to say I told you so about getting it built at Rogue :p Good luck with the fix matey, ok to hold on to collect them lights off you bud?
sure, lights aren't going anywhere, they're sitting in a couple of boxes in the garage.
I would say it is the absolute least they could do really. Viewing this objectively MWR has a reputation to look out for I would have thought, so if it were my firm who had caused this sort of grief I would be bending over backwards to put things right, including covering for ALL the additional costs involved. A lot of potential customers are watching this thread.
Not very helpful to come out with "told you so" comments really. Jason is obviously hacked off right now9 quite rightly so) and that isn't very supportive for a chap who is trying to do a bit of pioneering!
I am sure a number of firms could adequately build an engine actually.
Quote from: "loadswine"I would say it is the absolute least they could do really. Viewing this objectively MWR has a reputation to look out for I would have thought, so if it were my firm who had caused this sort of grief I would be bending over backwards to put things right, including covering for ALL the additional costs involved. A lot of potential customers are watching this thread.
Not very helpful to come out with "told you so" comments really. Jason is obviously hacked off right now9 quite rightly so) and that isn't very supportive for a chap who is trying to do a bit of pioneering!
I am sure a number of firms could adequately build an engine actually.
I know mate, i was joking, and hopefully Muff saw this. I had a similar problem with my past MK2, i know how he feels, like someone has kicked you in the bollock in with a stiletto
Is the engine swap something I can do myself? What do I need ramps / hoists wise? Anyone fancy giving me a hand in exchange for verbal praise and beer? s:D :D s:D
Trying to save some pennies, the extra costs for doing this swap are something I can't absorb at the moment and I'm guessing it's going to be a lot cheaper to buy the equipment I need and spend some hours in the garage doing the work myself.
Quote from: "muffdan"Is the engine swap something I can do myself? What do I need ramps / hoists wise? Anyone fancy giving me a hand in exchange for verbal praise and beer? s:D :D s:D
Trying to save some pennies, the extra costs for doing this swap are something I can't absorb at the moment and I'm guessing it's going to be a lot cheaper to buy the equipment I need and spend some hours in the garage doing the work myself.
You could rent most the equipment.
Just catching up with the goings-on here. Gutted for you both. s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Here's hoping MWR do the right thing all the way through to completion.
Quote from: "markiii"if any of the bits you need are standard bits give me a shout
+1 to the pair of you.
Quote from: "Ilogik"Quote from: "muffdan"Is the engine swap something I can do myself? What do I need ramps / hoists wise? Anyone fancy giving me a hand in exchange for verbal praise and beer? s:D :D s:D
Trying to save some pennies, the extra costs for doing this swap are something I can't absorb at the moment and I'm guessing it's going to be a lot cheaper to buy the equipment I need and spend some hours in the garage doing the work myself.
You could rent most the equipment.
I don't believe in renting equipement, I'd rather buy and especially in this instance where this'll be the 6th time I'll have had the engine out and I'm very bored of paying other people to do it. I should have thought of this sooner!
Quote from: "muffdan"Quote from: "Ilogik"Quote from: "muffdan"Is the engine swap something I can do myself? What do I need ramps / hoists wise? Anyone fancy giving me a hand in exchange for verbal praise and beer? s:D :D s:D
Trying to save some pennies, the extra costs for doing this swap are something I can't absorb at the moment and I'm guessing it's going to be a lot cheaper to buy the equipment I need and spend some hours in the garage doing the work myself.
You could rent most the equipment.
I don't believe in renting equipement, I'd rather buy and especially in this instance where this'll be the 6th time I'll have had the engine out and I'm very bored of paying other people to do it. I should have thought of this sooner!
feck! If you frequent that much indeed, what would you need, air compressor makes life quicker, engine hoist.
give ebay a check see if you can find anyone shutting up shop selling cheap bits here and there.
If you can get the car to mine I'd be happy help you with it. I have a trailor I can borrow but need a 4x4 to tow it and I don't have one. Where are you?
In respect to the import tax. I had to pay it then claim it back. You won't get it all back as the airport took a chunk. I will dig out the forms if you like.
thanks rob, much appreciated. My third car is a Land Rover so towing a trailer wouldn't be a problem. I'm going to go to Corfu for a couple of weeks and try and forget about all this. I'll get back on it when I get back!
Sure. You'll still have a good time.
Hi guys. Someone told me I should check out this thread- I don't make it on to this forum enough.
It kills me to see anyone have a problem with one of our engines. This one especially- it appears that the previous owner of that VVT actuator tampered with it and we did not catch it. Normally those are held together with tamperproof bolts so you can't even check the torque on the bolts unless you happen to have a 5-sided torx or hex socket which are quite hard to come by for a reason. They're not supposed to be tampered with. This one snuck by us but that is our fault. No excuses.
Of course we are doing everything in our power (at our expense of course) to resolve the situation. It's not easy when the car is halfway around the world but we are doing our best. Generally our customers will tell you that we go the extra mile to fix any problems if they arise. We don't intend to change that policy any time soon.
I'll try to make it on this forum more often. Lots of good projects, people and topics.
good to hear your doing the honourable thing guys, so rare nowadays
Ok, update time!
The existing engine has been checked over, the sump cleaned out and the VVT unit replaced at no cost to myself. MWR have come through here and allowed SP to sort the problem. They then promptly payed the bill directly too. I couldn't have asked for more and I consider them to have done me right.
The car is now drivable and the engine is currently being run in by Matt for me. It's due back to Thor for mapping on Tuesday.
Fingers crossed the dramas are now over and the car will be finished with no more nasty suprises and I can start to enjoy this weather!
Jason
What was the fix on the hole in the head? did it get welded? good to hear it going in the right direction
Quote from: "custardavenger"What was the fix on the hole in the head?
Used the cover and the VVT unit from my old engine
Quote from: "muffdan"Quote from: "custardavenger"What was the fix on the hole in the head?
Used the cover and the VVT unit from my old engine
Oh right I see now. It looked like it was the head cos it was upside down when you took the pic.
How's it looking Jason? Had it mapped yet?
It's been at Thor this week for it's mapping and so far so good (no news is good news right!). Not sure when it's going to be ready though. If I had to guess I'd say early next week.
Jason
For a map - wow thats a long time
Even Nic's was done in a day and that was by Noble s8) 8) s8)
Thor aren't exactly renowned for their speedy mapping...
Quote from: "Dan M"Thor aren't exactly renowned for their speedy mapping...
Yeah but they did mine in a day. Mind you I was sat there so they couldn't exactly ignore it!
Oh they can do it when pushed, but they just never seem to. They had mine for a week, although granted they did do a few other little things that actually would've taken up a whole day.
They've fitted me in at short notice around other work. They're doing two maps and configuring the launch control. That shouldn't take too long. What's taking the time is setting up the anti lag which requires a TB bypass or solenoid fitting to the stock TB or something else clever to let lots of air into the engine without the aid of my right foot.
Jason
what antilag are you getting again?
The system built in to the G4. It'll be unrestricted. As the G4 was so expensive and I'm being charged only £150 extra for anti-lag setup, I thought it worth a punt! It'll be activated via a dash board switch on track days and drag races if its not too loud. It might not be all that but then again it might be absolutely awesome! The amount of time I can spend with it on before the turbo temperatures become damaging is an unknown. I'll be keeping a close eye on the EGT gauge. Of course it's only active during gear changes so I'm hoping it'll be quite usable.
I hope mine can get back on the mapping trail next week, then just the mot to go. I so need my car back, the tempory transport arrangements are a real pain and expensive.
Quote from: "philster_d"I hope mine can get back on the mapping trail next week, then just the mot to go. I so need my car back, the tempory transport arrangements are a real pain and expensive.
Sounds like a project phill, was shocked to see your car still there when I dropped mine off, I felt lost without mine for 5 days lol.
When will you be picking your car up from Thor Muff?
Mine goes in tomorrow for mapping on the TTE, hopefully all goes to plan, pretty nervous atm.
I know how you feel Phil, it's been so long since I drove it I've completely forgotten what it was like. On the plus side it should make getting it back and being reminded how (hopefully) good it is, all that more special.
Ilogic, I Should be collecting it some time this week.
Problems at Thor, they can't seem to get the G4 to control the VVTi, they appear to have hit a wall with it s:( :( s:(
Not sure what the problem is or how they're going to find a solution to it, but it looks like its going to be there a good while longer.
Hopefully it'll be back on the road for the Southern Softies run next month.
Jason
when I was there I was told not to bother getting the vvti tuned as on turbo cars it does not make much difference. What Link are the other turbo mk3's running that they got there. Surely would be similarities in the tuning process. Nothing worse than being told it is going to take longer when you built yourself up.
Fingers crossed getting it sorted.
Quote from: "Ilogik"when I was there I was told not to bother getting the vvti tuned as on turbo cars it does not make much difference.
The powerfc has a base map and is for the 1zz whereas I guess the link is a totally blank canvas with no values until set as its universal.
Sorry to hear that Jason. Hopefully it shouldnt take too much longer
I don't know how the whole mapping thing works, and if similar things work with one another in %'s, but if they can do it, could pop into Thor for you, and could grab the values of my car, so they have something to work with?
Quote from: "Ilogik"I don't know how the whole mapping thing works, and if similar things work with one another in %'s, but if they can do it, could pop into Thor for you, and could grab the values of my car, so they have something to work with?
they will already have your map
problem is the file formats are incompatible
Quote from: "markiii"Quote from: "Ilogik"I don't know how the whole mapping thing works, and if similar things work with one another in %'s, but if they can do it, could pop into Thor for you, and could grab the values of my car, so they have something to work with?
they will already have your map
problem is the file formats are incompatible
aww damn, was a good idea whilst is lasted. 2
An update, we're going to try a new vvti actuator and see if that fixes the problem.
Another update, still not got the car mapped, but decided to add a few more bits and pieces.
Tein Super Streets
Twosrus Drop links
Che ARBs
Link Knock Block - hooked up to the G4 and hopefully used with the fuel mapping.
I noticed a squeal today too coming from what I thought was the near side rear wheel. Checked the pads on the rear and the squealler is no where near the the discs, but the front is low. I need a new rear left caliper too as the hand brake won't stay adjusted, so I might just overhaul the whole brake system, discs, pads and calipers all round. Anyone know a good combo for doing all three that works well together, or shall I stick with stock calipers and just uprate the pads and maybe discs?
Jason
get the whole set of calipers refurbed and coatted by bigg red
I have a spare set if you want them done and then give me your old ones back?
add black diamond discs, braided lines, motul fluid and stock pads, and your golden
Quote from: "muffdan"Another update, still not got the car mapped, but decided to add a few more bits and pieces.
Tein Super Streets
Twosrus Drop links
Che ARBs
Link Knock Block - hooked up to the G4 and hopefully used with the fuel mapping.
I noticed a squeal today too coming from what I thought was the near side rear wheel. Checked the pads on the rear and the squealler is no where near the the discs, but the front is low. I need a new rear left caliper too as the hand brake won't stay adjusted, so I might just overhaul the whole brake system, discs, pads and calipers all round. Anyone know a good combo for doing all three that works well together, or shall I stick with stock calipers and just uprate the pads and maybe discs?
Jason
Keep stock calipers, stock disks go for a set of carbotechs, best pad i have ever used.
Choice is do you mind a little noise and dust if you don't try the AX6 OR over here the Panther plus.
If you can't live with squeal but want good brakes, cheaper than the AX6, try the bobcats, these would need to be ordered directly from Carbotech USA.
m http://www.ctbrakes.com/ (http://www.ctbrakes.com/) m
Carbotech's high-technology brake compounds work great, have excellent heat tolerance, and are easy on rotors.
Bobcat is Carbotech's street compound, with outstanding cold braking performance, and consistent friction coefficient over its entire heat range, up to 900 degrees F. Suitable for street and autocross use.Carbotech™ AX6™ (1106™)
The AX6™ takes the place of the Panther Plus™ compound that was so successful. AX6™ was specifically engineered for Autocross applications. A high torque brake compound delivering reliable and consistent performance over a very wide operating temperature range (150°F to 1250°F +). Advanced compound matrix provides an excellent initial "bite", high coefficient of friction, and very progressive brake modulation and release characteristics. AX6™ offers high fade resistance, rotor friendliness at all temperatures, excellent cold stopping power, and non corrosive dust. As a result, AX6™ is an excellent choice for Autocross & novice track day drivers and beginner high performance driver education (HPDE) drivers on street driven cars using street tires eliminating the need to change brake pads at the track. AX6™ has gained tremendous popularity with SCCA Prosolo/Solo2 competitors for its fantastic bite, release & modulation. Many drivers use the AX6™ for street driving as well, even though Carbotech doesn't recommend street driving with AX6™ due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise. AX6™ is NOT a race compound, and should not be used as such. AX6™ shouldn't be used by any intermediate or advanced track day drivers, and should not be used with "R" compound tires (racing tires). Cars in excess of 300hp and/or 3,000lbs should not use AX6™ for any track use.
Quote from: "muffdan"I need a new rear left caliper too as the hand brake won't stay adjusted,
Thats odd It's quite a simple mech. The seal kit is only £35 ish. And I can lend you the tool to get them apart. It's not that difficult?
Thanks for the input guys.
I've contacted Bigg Red about rebuilding my calipers, I currently have them (crudely) painted yellow with Halfrauds caliper paint (I'm sure you wouldn't want these Mark but perhaps I could borrow yours whilst mine are being done? s:) :) s:) ). I'm hoping the paint won't cause them an issue for remanufacturing them. I'd also like them powder coated yellow when they're done but they don't offer this as a colour option on their store. Hopefully they can find some yellow powder somewhere!
I think I'll go with the rest of mark's suggestion too and stick with stock pads but with some Black Diamond discs. I've already got (green!) braided lines.
Jason
Quote from: "muffdan"Thanks for the input guys.
I've contacted Bigg Red about rebuilding my calipers, I currently have them (crudely) painted yellow with Halfrauds caliper paint (I'm sure you wouldn't want these Mark but perhaps I could borrow yours whilst mine are being done? s:) :) s:) ). I'm hoping the paint won't cause them an issue for remanufacturing them. I'd also like them powder coated yellow when they're done but they don't offer this as a colour option on their store. Hopefully they can find some yellow powder somewhere!
I think I'll go with the rest of mark's suggestion too and stick with stock pads but with some Black Diamond discs. I've already got (green!) braided lines.
Jason
Trust me go carbotech you won't look back. Just look for the million and one posts on the carbotechs saying how good they are lol.
Quote from: "muffdan"Thanks for the input guys.
I've contacted Bigg Red about rebuilding my calipers, I currently have them (crudely) painted yellow with Halfrauds caliper paint (I'm sure you wouldn't want these Mark but perhaps I could borrow yours whilst mine are being done? s:) :) s:) ). I'm hoping the paint won't cause them an issue for remanufacturing them. I'd also like them powder coated yellow when they're done but they don't offer this as a colour option on their store. Hopefully they can find some yellow powder somewhere!
I think I'll go with the rest of mark's suggestion too and stick with stock pads but with some Black Diamond discs. I've already got (green!) braided lines.
Jason
may as well get mine refurbed, they need it anyway
wire wheel on a drill and that paint should come off easy
I may get the carbotech pads too but they are expensive! s:D :D s:D
Jason
Quote from: "muffdan"I may get the carbotech pads too but they are expensive! s:D :D s:D
Jason
As I say keep the standard disks, you won't need to change with the carbotech pads.
There is a wicked Gel you can buy to apply to paint, works in the same way as nitromorse but a lot easier to use just apply with a paint brush.
So has anyone used the Carbotech pads with Black Diamong Discs? Pro's and con's over stock pads?
Bigg Red can't paint the refurbed calipers yellow and I don't think any of their other powder colour options is going work with my car (perhaps black but black is so boring!). I'm thinking I keep them raw and paint them yellow myself, or go for their silver or gold electro-plating option. Is gold to bling though and does it go with the green! Silver plated is probably my favourite option at the moment.
Mark, can I take you up on your very kind offer please s:) :) s:) Just let me know how you want to work it.
Jason
no probs I'll dig them out, and easiest is if I send to big red for you, just paypal me the postage, then I'll get your old ones off you via teh delivery network
thast how I've done it in the past
Quote from: "markiii"no probs I'll dig them out, and easiest is if I send to big red for you, just paypal me the postage, then I'll get your old ones off you via the delivery network
thast how I've done it in the past
Sounds good, cheers!
Speak to STP (Simon) I know his bought some carbotechs, and pretty sure he had non standard disks so may be worth seeing what his running.
Fitted Black Diamond discs (grooved and drilled) and Carbotech XP8 pads all round today. I must say the initial result is pleasing. I'll have to let them settle in some more, but from what I've gathered thus far, the braking performance is definitely better than before. The braking is immediate and strong (if needed) when the setup is cold too. Gentle braking is still nice and easy so there's been no compromise made there. Good stuff!
Quote from: "muffdan"Fitted Black Diamond discs (grooved and drilled) and Carbotech XP8 pads all round today. I must say the initial result is pleasing. I'll have to let them settle in some more, but from what I've gathered thus far, the braking performance is definitely better than before. The braking is immediate and strong (if needed) when the setup is cold too. Gentle braking is still nice and easy so there's been no compromise made there. Good stuff!
Did you break them in nicely? Doing the HOT cycle ?
How you finding low speed noise? I do know they revised the compound or it might of been on the Panther plus (ax6) Great brakes though, thinking of going for the Carbotech bobcats when Im due for a change. Much less dust on them so they say and no low level noise but yet give great braking and some mild track abuse. good choice!
I did execute the correct bedding in procedure. Not noticed any noise from them at the moment.
So Tein Super Streets, Che ARBs and Twos R Us drop links fitted.
Big thumbs up. The response from the front of the car is phenominal. Any twitch of the steering wheel results in an instant change of direction of the car. Much more cornering ability. I don't have the balls to actually find out how much further out the limit is and I think that sort of experimentation can wait until the track day next month!
The balance of the car is now different. The car feels like it will oversteer if pushed with enough steering lock on, rather than understeer as it use to.
Interestingly SP found a hole in my intercooler (pre-maf). The hole's been sealed and as a result its messed up the map and the car kangaroo's on WOT. The hole must have been there when it was mapped. Its pleasing to know the boost and performance the engine and turbo were delivering even with a massive hole leaking boost. Compared to before, the turbo now takes no time to spool and sounds like it's barely spinning when making the 15 psi.
Is your MAF pre intercooler then?
No, I meant the IC and therefore the boost leak was pre-maf. Not sure why it's messed up the map though, perhaps the maf is seeing a lot more air now on part throttle which is thowing the fueling?
That's what I was thinking. Wouldn't have thought it would have made that much difference. Maybe it's because of the way the Link maps.
Sounds like its getting there dude!! Need to see it running, always see it whilst its being worked on or mapped lol.
Going to Weston Performance tomorrow to get some checks done on my map, see if its just me being paranoid about it not making enough power be nice to clear it up once and for all.
there's definitely something wrong with your setup or your boost guage is over-reading. Hope they can shed some light on it for you.
or the air temps are so high with that little intercooler that the turbo is just acting as a heat pump
Can't see how that would be any different with or without the boost leak Mark?
I meant ilogiks issue
Oh, I had the ACT ( ACT-TC2-XTSS ) clutch fitted too.
It's much easier to drive the car with this compared to the old Exidy Ceramic I had. I definitely recommend this clutch.
Update:
Car has been back at Thor the last few days and there's good news and bad news.
Good news is that the VVTi is functioning and the full rev range is now available. The bad news is that it's sucking oil into the intake when its trying to run more than 10psi of boost. It is presently generating 243whp (about 272bph?) which I'm pretty pleased with given its only running 10psi.
So oil-in-the-intake wise, I know I have a problem with the pipes running to the oil catch can closing up under vacuum. These pipes are going to be replaced in the morning with some sturdier ones. The catch can is placed between the PCV (that's the nossle coming out the front-left corner of the rocker cover right?) and the intake pre-turbo. The question is what to do with the big breather from the back of the rocker cover. I don't know if that's presently connected to the throttle body or the intake manifold or if it's vented to atmosphere. As the car is still at Thor, I can't go and check how it's set up either.
I'm guessing ideally that I need to invest in some Krank Vents but I doubt I can get a set of these over to Thor tomorrow! What's the next best thing to enable me to get a few more PSI out of it before the track day at the weekend?
Given that this is your first trackday since you'll have it back with the full amount of revs available to you, and that there's an oil ingestion issue, I don't think it'd be a great idea to try and run more boost on track. See how it feels and let it bed in before you push it any more. Besides which, you really need a set of KVs on there and as you say they'll take a good week to get hold of at least (unless someone's got a set laying around).
it is a good point, thanks Dan. I guess I'm also after making sure that the setup for the breathers is as ideal as it can be in the meantime, regardless of how much power it's putting down.
I believe the rear breather can just vent to atmos, with some kind of filter on it. I'm sure I've seen one running like that, might've been SteveJ's current car when Sean had it. Mine had a KV in the end of it.
if your siphoning oil rather than pressurising the crankcase then crankvents won;t help (unless you fit that one in reverse?)
Hass always reckoned that at high boost this could be a problem unless you vent the rear breather to atmos
what boost are you running?
Anything over 11 PSI causes it.
I run my rear breather to atmos. Mo problems yet. Would lend you mine but not sure how to get them to you in time. Either way I would take it easy on track if I was you. You have plenty of power to enjoy. Don't push it and make it an expensive weekend.
cheers Rob, where are you atm by the way s:) :) s:)
Nottingham and the car is in Salisbury. Will be there on friday.
Mine were fitted at Custards a few weeks ago. We had a discussion about rear one venting to air. Somebody there had one doing that with a small filter on the end, guessing it was SimonC? ,<edit> s:oops: :oops: s:oops: perhaps it was Rob's
Anyhow this is the KV GB list. (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=24569) You might strike lucky on somebody who hasn't fitted theirs yet and ask for a borrow / replace later deal..
Cheers guys, I have sent a pm to Phil. I think he has a set on his car and I believe his car is at Rogue. If he reads the pm in time and doesn't mind me taking them, it's an absolutely ideal solution.
Depending on what happens today, I may be at Thor tomorrow, and I've got krankvents which you can borrow.
just need something to go in place of one as I cut the line to fit it.
cheers simon. Its ok though, I'm picking the car up later today and heading over to angelsey tomorrow morning. I'll live with what it's putting out at the moment s:) :) s:)
I'll update later today with full details (as there's other issues too) once I've spoken to Pete and Matt about it.
I am so lazy.
A lot has happened over the last few weeks.
So, had the car back the Thursday before Angelsey. The map was/is excellent though low boost only. Drives very smoothly on full or partial throttle and on overrun. Clearly an advantage to using a 3rd party ECU rather than a piggy back. My only moan with it is that it sometimes stalls if you let the revs drop to idle from too high.
At the track day the car performed beautifully, very fast but not without a few problems.
First issue: I was driving down one of the straights and the power suddenly died and my Boost and EGT guage started flashing red and beeping at me. Oh dear! As I was literally just in front of the entrance to the pit lane I pulled straight in! I let the car cool down and then took it out again. As I applied the power, the boost guage shot up to 25 PSI. Not good! Back into the pits and popped the hood. After a little looking around I noticed that there was no inlet feed to the waste gate actuator. The heat soak from the turbo had softened the hose and allowed it to blow off. So popped that back on and put a jubilee clip around it to put an end to that nonsense. Took the car back out and boost was holding once again at 13PSI.
Second issue: I was driving down one of the straights when the Boost guage started flashing red and beeping at me. Again it was shooting up to 22 PSI. Not again! Part throttled it around the track for 10 minutes (it happened during my 20 minute tuition so stayed out to make the most of that). Back into the pits and popped the hood. The hose was still on the waste gate so I thought it must have popped off else where. After a little hose tracking and dismantling it became apparent that all the hoses were on. I concluded that it must be the boost solenoid or the waste gate actuator (although thinking back it couldn't have been the solenoid because when they fail the fail into 'open' rather than 'closed' to the waste gate). Anyway, bypassed the solenoid to narrow down the issue. Didn't have time to take it back out on track as it was the end of the day. On road, it initially seemed fixed but then I noticed that it was still spiking up to 22PSI but then it would drop back to the 13PSI. Drove it on part throttle back home. I popped over the following week to SP for Matt to take a look at the boost actuator. It was working fine. Then Matt noticed that the actuator hose was rather soft. Clearly the hose couldn't take the heat and it had part melted/expanding internally to block itself. Replaced the hose and all is well again!
So now the car is being fitted with a new exhaust system and reworked air inlet to reduce any restrictions. Booked back in with Thor on Thursday for an update to the mapping and hopefully they'll be able to sort the high boost map. I just remembered I haven't done anything about the oil through the breathers yet. Oops.
Sounds like its coming together, its all the fine tuning in between that put me off my modded turbo, start to add up, especially having to go back and forwwards to mapping.
Quote from: "Ilogik"Sounds like its coming together, its all the fine tuning in between that put me off my modded turbo, start to add up, especially having to go back and forwwards to mapping.
One-off "development" type jobs can be a big headache - especially in this case because there was not clean sheet to start with (to be fair, Rogue are very good at it but it's not cheap). Jason's project was initially intended to get the absolute max out of the TTE kit. It turns out that the TTE kit really isn't much more tunable than about 250bhp due to it having been engineered for around 210bhp (admittedly the kit ended up at 182 but that was more to do with politics at Toyota Japan). So, having invested in forged internals it made much more sense to go down the path of getting the max out of the engine and modifying the Turbo ancillaries (since it didn't work so well the other way around!).
The new kit that we're doing (and this isn't meant to be a plug, just to illustrate how we've learned from the point you are making) has a number of the TTE "bottlenecks" removed and is designed to be an off the shelf solution to suit everyone. The DIY version is fine for those that want to customise (better than fine, but you get my point I'm sure). But if you want to go Turbo, have a kit that is proven, and have a very simple process of plug-and-play ECU or one-off custom mapping, then this is what you can have. We've done the development work for you!! In time, I'm planning to go forged internals on my own engine so I can offer an off the shelf solution for the kit for a higher output (target 300bhp, intercooler permitting) - and the point is that the development work will have been done before customer's can buy it.
I have learned the hard way about the cost of development and I can fully understand how some of you guys would want to steer clear of it!
ok, so the car was back at Thor today with a reqorked turbo inlet and exhaust setup. Heat soak from the engine into the inlet (raising the inlet temperature) presently seems to be the bottle neck but progress was made. The maps are below. The blue line means nothing so ignore that. The dotted red line is the low boost map and the solid red line is the high boost map. The hp figures are whp. So the flywheel power of the high boost map is ~320bhp
Torque / Power:
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/MR2-Power191109.jpg)
Boost:
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/MR2-Boost191109.jpg)
As we can see the boost is holding nice and steady although the boost does drop off intentionally to reduce inlet temperatures. The turbo is easily capable of delivering the boost required. Thor have mapped the inlet temperature into the boost levels, so as the inlet temps increase, the boost level is dropped to try and counter it. The ignition is retarded along with putting in more fuel to stop detonation, hence the drop off in the torque curve. It's a bit of a head scratcher as to why the inlet temps are still high (70 degrees plus) at the inlet manifold. The temperatures leaving the charge cooler are around the 35 degrees mark.
Oh, and the car is EPIC to drive. Absolutely the fastest accelerating car I've ever been in and certainly driven. Loving it. Can't help dropping a few 4 letter words out loud to myself when I open the throttle up!
so how much power is it putting out?
Quote from: "markiii"so how much power is it putting out?
320bhp
Is that the max you'll get out of the setup, or are you still expecting big gains along the line?
a very round number?
at the fly?
Did you miss my post with the dyno plots in or something mark! s:) :) s:)
It's 279.5 whp, given a 14-15% drive train loss equates to 318.5-321.5bhp + a pinch of salt.
Quote from: "muffdan"Did you miss my post with the dyno plots in or something mark! s:) :) s:)
It's 279.5 whp, given a 14-15% drive train loss equates to 318.5-321.5bhp + a pinch of salt.
actually yes I did :-) :-) :-)
Quote from: "muffdan"It's a bit of a head scratcher as to why the inlet temps are still high (70 degrees plus) at the inlet manifold. The temperatures leaving the charge cooler are around the 35 degrees mark.
That's interesting, I have no intake cooling whatsoever and today whilst Noble were mapping it the intake temps reached 70 degrees also. Apparently high but not dangerously I was told. Obviously I'm running far less boost than you, but it makes me wonder what the secret is to really effective intake cooling?
Nice numbers Jason, its no wonder it goes like the smelly stuff off a chrome plated shovel s:lol: :lol: s:lol: .
Well it looks like a blast from the dyno plots, plenty of power over a nice rev range!
yeah, I crapped myself when I floored it in 2nd gear down a slip road for the first time, having forgotten I had another 80bhp over the previous low boost figure. Just got to hope the engine stays in one piece now!
320bhp thats fantastic s:D :D s:D enjoy the power and i will keep my fingers crossed for you with regards reliability
reliability is a concern, especially on track. I think I'll leave it in low boost on track days for now.
So, a solution to the high charge temps. After an evening of research, it seems an aquamist water injection system is the solution. Anyone have any thoughts on that? Am I wrongly looking to mask the symptom of another problem here? I guess water injection will cool the engine as well as the charge, which can't be a bad thing anyway. I want to make this power as reliable as reasonably possible!
Might be worth you checking out the "Parts for Sale" section.
"Loadswine" has one for sale.
As you know I'm about to install WI. But you should think about fitting the Charge cooler first I think.
Charge cooler installed about a month ago. A PWR 5x6 barrel with the metro turbo rad mounted up front and the Bosch high flow/pressure electric water pump. Basically the same kit as everyone else s;) ;) s;)
After a very helpful chat with custard Rob last night, I dropped the charge cooler and rotated so that the water hoses entered/exited at the top of the barrel. Lots of air (couple of pints worth) bubbled up out the barrel.
Bascially, after a struggle to bleed that air out the system, the charge temps are now much better although still a little warn on high boost (59C after sustained WOT). Low boost is beautiful though and doesn't see anything about 40C. s:D :D s:D
I think some air might have worked its way back in the barrel while I was bleeding it. Investigating rotating the barrel so that the water pipes are vertical but it's not as simple as it sounds s:) :) s:)
Righty, missed the track day at Bedford last weekend as I managed to strip 3rd gear whilst nailing it, driving home on Friday night.
Killing the gearbox was expected, given the torque being put through it, but I thought it would have lasted a little longer than it did! It was a box that had covered 20k before I got my hands on it, and it has done about 8k in my car. Not good! Time for an uprated gear set.
Also measured my water usage the back end of last week and I'm loosing a hell of a lot of water. No obvious leaks anywhere but it' empties the reserviour driving 60 miles. Temperature is fine. Perhaps the gearbox failing saved me from a potentially bigger problem I could have had out on track.
You broke it again!!
Well as long as you are enjoying it mate.
Will it make it to corfu for a 2 week trip?
Might be an idea to fit the engine in with a zip s:( :( s:(
now now boys! Nothing wrong with the engine (hopefully) s:) :) s:)
The gear box was a known weak point and it was always going to go given the torque the engine is putting through it.
The water issue is currently a mystery, hopefully will turn out to be something simple.
You may want to cap the mid range torque with some boost control. That 280+ lb/ft is going to kill standard boxes off very quickly. Sure with the mid range tamed it will be less flexible, but you will possibly get better drivability with linear torque, plus less heat into the I/C in the midband (maybe more top end as a result?) and of course gearbox life better than one service interval.
Chris
yep, a stock replacement box certainly isn't a long term solution. Perhaps a torque cap is better, but ideally I'd like to be holding the torque I'm making across the rev range anyway so eventually I'm going to need something that can handle the torque.
Two options I've found so far:
Uprated gear set from MWR (3rd and 4th gears only but probably a ratio mismatch):
http://store.monkeywrenchracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_181&products_id=1130
or adapting an E153 from a '93 MR2 Turbo.
After much web searching I found a company that did a few of these as one offs, and then I found this press release from MWR:
Quote**MWR E153 Conversion
*450-1000hp/300-675 ft-lb
*$TBD
*Available February 2010
You guys know about this monster of a transmission from the 91-95 MR2 Turbo. This is the one we get questions on all the time and that we've been working on for a while. We set out from the beginning to make this kit superior to all other C60 and E153 solutions out there and I think we've accomplished that goal:
- includes everything you need for the conversion: Transmission, adapter plates, mounts, shifter cable bracket, axles and flywheel. No welding!
- We can supply the transmission used or brand new, with your choice of two different final drive ratios, and with or without an LSD (viscous, helical and clutch available.)
- The standard kit's axles will be rated for 450hp. For those who want to go higher we will supply some MONSTROUS axles with custom hubs that will take whatever you want to throw at them.
- MWR's conversion kit uses the much larger and far superior E153 clutch (sold separately.) That means superior torque capacity with excellent drivability. There will of course be an option for a twin plate clutch.
- Currently available E153 close ratio and dog gear sets can be installed in the transmission for extreme applications.
The power and torque ratings are only approximate. If you're near the limit and you go to the track every weekend, dumping your twin plate clutch over and over with sticky tires you may want to go with the next option up.
Please don't grill us for more info right now- I've shared all I can. I'm working hard 7 days a week to get these parts tested and on the shelf. I'll make sure to post updates as they're available.
We're very excited about the new possibilities this opens up for the 2010 racing season!
__________________
Matt @ Monkeywrench
Any chance a box from the avensis diesel would fit?
funnily enough, I thought the exact same thing. I think that's a question I'll ask of Rogue.
Really sorry to hear of the gearbox woes. Don't forget, with an E153, the cables for the shift work differently, so a custom cage and Mk2 cables are required. It would be a bit like on mine
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/paddy1970/woodsport/nigelsbshiftercableextensions.jpg)
Avensis diesel boxes certainly have internal swappability with other boxes, as I run a longer fifth from one of those.
Toyota are legendary with the fitment compatibility, so I hope you find something that fits the bill.
cheers Nige,
The E153 swap kit from MWR will contain everything you need to fit it (apart from the box for those that perfer to source their own).
I'm a little put off by the thought of a longer throw on the gear lever. I like the tight short shifts of my current setup. Having said that, I'd rather have a box that's rated for the torque I'm asking it to deal with.
throw can be fixed, its just a matter of redesigning the linkage and or cable length once you have the thing working
might be worth a chat with a guy called ronin on SELOC, he has a twincharged 2zz exige running an e153 as he had the same issue killing gearboxes
cheers Mark, I'm just speaking to MWR about their offered uprated gear set atm. Sounds like it might be adequate after all, assuming the ratios will work. This is the cheapest/easiest solution. Should these fail in the future, I can make a decision about accepting a gearbox rebuild every n thounsand miles, or paying the extra and going for a E153 conversion. The answer to that question depends on the cost of the E153 conversion and the magnitude of n.
Right, so the gear ratio's of my current box are on the left, and the new ratios on the right (with very rough new top speed in brackets):
3.166 3.166
1.904 1.904 (59mph)
1.310 1.438 (78mph)
0.969 1.105 (101mph)
0.815 0.815 (137mph)
0.725 0.725
What do we think! 2nd, 3rd and 4th are all pretty close with a big jump from 4th to 5th.
Quote from: "muffdan"Right, so the gear ratio's of my current box are on the left, and the new ratios on the right (with very rough new top speed in brackets):
3.166 3.166
1.904 1.904 (59mph)
1.310 1.438 (78mph)
0.969 1.105 (101mph)
0.815 0.815 (137mph)
0.725 0.725
What do we think! 2nd, 3rd and 4th are all pretty close with a big jump from 4th to 5th.
Just to be clear, where do the mph figures come from (215/45 16 or 205/50 15, etc.)? With your tyres these ratios will be longer.
I'm trying to get some mor info about actual ratios (there seems to be a lot of conflicting info from the Lotus scene, USA and MR2ROC)
the speed figures are based on the stock wheels, so yes my actual speeds will be about 10% higher.
Aaron put this spread sheet together last year, doesn't list Lotus cars but does cover the MR2 and Celica:
http://www.mr2roc.org/Repository/misc/userpics/markiii/gearratios/roadsterratios.xls
Probably much more expensive but Spirits do gears too.
Not sure on costs here, but Quaife list a bell housing for the toyota engined lotus elise, which can host a quaife gear box. This may be an option.
m http://www.quaife.co.uk/Bellhousing-for ... otus-Elise (http://www.quaife.co.uk/Bellhousing-for-Toyota-Lotus-Elise) m
quaife was the first thought, they don't actually do a gear set. They do sell a LSD upgrade but that's about it.
According to that link they sell an entire gearbox that will mate up to that bellhousing, however..
hm. They list kits for the PG1. Nothing for the Roadster or Toyota engined Elise models though. They said on the phone that they don't do anything for the C6x other than an LSD.
I'm almost decided that I'm going for the MWR 3rd/4th gearset.
m http://www.quaife.co.uk/QUAIFE-6-speed- ... ellhousing (http://www.quaife.co.uk/QUAIFE-6-speed-FWD-sequential-gearbox-including-bellhousing) m
Maybe?
Not going to be cheap. And you'll have to manufacture three engine/gearbox mounts.
Quote from: "muffdan"hm. They list kits for the PG1. Nothing for the Roadster or Toyota engined Elise models though. They said on the phone that they don't do anything for the C6x other than an LSD.
I never said they did anything for the C6x s;) ;) s;) That link states it's a bellhousing to mate a 'Quaife gearbox' to the Toyota engine - by that I take it to mean that it's not a standard gearbox at all.. completely different casing & gearset, with an adapter bellhousing to mate it to the Toyota engine.
[edit] Yeah, what Rob just said s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
EIGHT GRAND??
Jeepers, how much is the MWR one?
Several lotus owners have had this issue with the gearbox. Lotus themselves say that even a 2ZZ engine with the C64 box will not exceed 260bhp and about 190lbft of torque. The new 270-280 bhp 2-11 has a sequential gearbox in it but thats a bit steep, around about 16K. An amercian guy called ronnin (find him on monkey tuner) turbo'd up his exige and hit about 500 odd bhp but that just ate gearboxes, he then got the E153 box on it and that sorted it out even though its now compound charged. He had to get an adapter plate made up for it. I spoke to Rogue motorsport about this a while back as I, like you have done, intend to build the engine and try to squeeze 400bhp out of it. However the starter motor on the 2zz is in a different location than the 1zz engine so the gerarbox will totally foul this up ( according to Rogue). Couple of the high powered yota elise lads have had oil coolers attached to the gearbox so this is, by all accounts, helping the gearbox out a lot. Could give it ago I guesss.
Quote from: "custardavenger"http://www.quaife.co.uk/QUAIFE-6-speed-FWD-sequential-gearbox-including-bellhousing
Maybe?
Not going to be cheap. And you'll have to manufacture three engine/gearbox mounts.
Quote from: "aaronjb"I never said they did anything for the C6x That link states it's a bellhousing to mate a 'Quaife gearbox' to the Toyota engine - by that I take it to mean that it's not a standard gearbox at all.. completely different casing & gearset, with an adapter bellhousing to mate it to the Toyota engine.
Ah, yes I see!
That is an expensive option indeed.
I'll go with the MWR uprated gears but get them to cryo treat them before shipping them.
lotusfanboy: I did see ronnin's project thread and that's what got me down the E153 route. Seems to be shaping up to be a good option, once MWR start selling the bolt-on kit next year. I don't want my car off the road until March/April next year though so I'm going to go for the gear set option for now. If that fails in the future, I'll definitely be going down the E153 route.
I think its the only option really. Will wait till someone else has done the r $ d on it then jump on the bandwagon s;) ;) s;)
Wonder if you can get E series internals into a C series housing?
Quote from: "lotusfanboy"I, like you have done, intend to build the engine and try to squeeze 400bhp out of it.
Yes and yet we came up unexplainable short of that, I wonder if the gt28 still matches the engine after the changes made
Quote from: "philster_d"Quote from: "lotusfanboy"I, like you have done, intend to build the engine and try to squeeze 400bhp out of it.
Yes and yet we came up unexplainable short of that, I wonder if the gt28 still matches the engine after the changes made
Apparently it could deliver 400. The issue is heat. I think mine's generating about 350 atm now that the charge cooler is working better. Charge temps still get too high though and boost gets pulled back (just not as much as before). A bigger barrel (or an extra barrel) along with water injection should be able to reduce the temps enough to generate 400.
Have you thought about going down the water/meth route of charge cooling? The rotrex uses this method and it seems to be very efficent.
Also thought the GT28 wasn't capable of hitting 400bhp perhaps about 370bhp max. You might need to gt30, then you will have sod all in the low revs so get a sc on there to compensate. Do you have very deep pockets s;) ;) s;)
Have you not read this thread? s;) ;) s;) s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Have you thought about adding a turbo?
Dropped the car off at SP today. Regarding the water usage (seems to be coming out the back as steam), they compression tested, leakdown tested and bore-scope inspected. All were perfect, so it was good to get confirmation there that the mapping at these power levels on this setup appears to be safe working well, and the water problem isn't a symptom of a major problem. s:D :D s:D
The water definitely seems to be coming out the exhaust rather than from a leak elsewhere in the engine bay and it boiling off on a hot surface. The piston crown in cylinder 1 did look 'cleaner' than the other 3. Another problem I had a few days ago was with stuttering/jerking when on WOT (after taking it very easy for 30 miles before). The boost was all over the place and it just didn't want to make power. It was there, then it wasn't. A few runs of WOT starting from 3k up to 6k and it gradually got better and then it drove nice and smooth again.
Taking both these issues into account, is it possible that water can get into the intake? If water had built up somewhere in the inlet, and then on WOT is was picked up and put mostly through cylinder 1 on WOT, it would cause some similar running issues until it clears I'm sure!
If this is true, I believe the only place where the coolant system meets the intake is at the throttle body and the turbo. The water feed to the turbo is on the exhaust side so it's unlikely that it's working its way through from there, leaving the throttle body/IACV. Does anyone who knows the design of this think it's possible for it to leak water into the inlet?
Any other ideas? I suppose the water could be leaking from the turbo into the exhaust causing the steam, but then that doesn't explain my clean piston or the one-off stuttering issue.
I don't mean to worry you but my sleeved 1zz is in the process of being removed from the car because of head gasket trouble. For a while it has seemed to loose water but stayed quite constant (v low loss) for ages - then after a bit it got worse and blew all the coolant out. It did this on a cometic gasket with ARP studs, newly skimmed faces, everything perfectly clean. I can't help thinking it is the design of the sleeves (the land out point) and differential thermal expansion over usage cycles causing fretting of the gasket.
Quote from: "muffdan"Dropped the car off at SP today. Regarding the water usage (seems to be coming out the back as steam), they compression tested, leakdown tested and bore-scope inspected. All were perfect, so it was good to get confirmation there that the mapping at these power levels on this setup appears to be safe working well, and the water problem isn't a symptom of a major problem.
The water definitely seems to be coming out the exhaust rather than from a leak elsewhere in the engine bay and it boiling off on a hot surface. The piston crown in cylinder 1 did look 'cleaner' than the other 3. Another problem I had a few days ago was with stuttering/jerking when on WOT (after taking it very easy for 30 miles before). The boost was all over the place and it just didn't want to make power. It was there, then it wasn't. A few runs of WOT starting from 3k up to 6k and it gradually got better and then it drove nice and smooth again.
Taking both these issues into account, is it possible that water can get into the intake? If water had built up somewhere in the inlet, and then on WOT is was picked up and put mostly through cylinder 1 on WOT, it would cause some similar running issues until it clears I'm sure!
If this is true, I believe the only place where the coolant system meets the intake is at the throttle body and the turbo. The water feed to the turbo is on the exhaust side so it's unlikely that it's working its way through from there, leaving the throttle body/IACV. Does anyone who knows the design of this think it's possible for it to leak water into the inlet?
Any other ideas? I suppose the water could be leaking from the turbo into the exhaust causing the steam, but then that doesn't explain my clean piston or the one-off stuttering issue.
I was going to suggest that the symptoms are a little similar to what I experienced with the V6 before I had it rebuilt. I had a very minor breach between a fire ring and water jacket, which basically over pressurized my cooling system. You can get test kits to check if the coolant has been in contact with combustion gases to help with the diagnosis.
I hope its a more simple solution than that . s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
wouldn't a head gasket fault show up on a leakdown test?
Mine didn't.
Basically you would expect the rings to let more low pressure gas through than a tiny leak in the HG. It may also be pressure dependant - your combustion pressure may be perhps 1000psi or something but leakdown test only uses ~ 100psi ...
Piston rings are pressure energised seals whereas a HG leak leaks more when pressure is applied.
I hope for your sake that it is not.... just passing on my experience - and the engine was made to MWR's instructions by a good reputable engine shop.
Quote from: "sjspitz"Mine didn't.
Basically you would expect the rings to let more low pressure gas through than a tiny leak in the HG. It may also be pressure dependant - your combustion pressure may be perhps 1000psi or something but leakdown test only uses ~ 100psi ...
Piston rings are pressure energised seals whereas a HG leak leaks more when pressure is applied.
I hope for your sake that it is not.... just passing on my experience - and the engine was made to MWR's instructions by a good reputable engine shop.
The engine was made by MWR s:) :) s:)
So which cylinder(s) did your gasket fail on?
Also, purely from an educational point of view as I'm sure you're right s:) :) s:) , how would a higher pressure cause more water to enter the cylinder? Surely that would force exhaust gasses out into the coolant system? Actually on WOT, generating plenty of boost, the chamber is never going to be under vacuum so how can water be drawn in through the HG?
For checking head gasket to coolant circuit leak you would usually use a sniff test kit to identify combustion gasses in the header tank.
Chris
sniff test is clear.
Quote from: "muffdan"Quote from: "sjspitz"Mine didn't.
Basically you would expect the rings to let more low pressure gas through than a tiny leak in the HG. It may also be pressure dependant - your combustion pressure may be perhps 1000psi or something but leakdown test only uses ~ 100psi ...
Piston rings are pressure energised seals whereas a HG leak leaks more when pressure is applied.
I hope for your sake that it is not.... just passing on my experience - and the engine was made to MWR's instructions by a good reputable engine shop.
The engine was made by MWR s:) :) s:)
So which cylinder(s) did your gasket fail on?
Also, purely from an educational point of view as I'm sure you're right s:) :) s:) , how would a higher pressure cause more water to enter the cylinder? Surely that would force exhaust gasses out into the coolant system? Actually on WOT, generating plenty of boost, the chamber is never going to be under vacuum so how can water be drawn in through the HG?
Ahh. This is out of context - I was just saying why you can pass the leak down test where the bore is pressurised with a shop air supply and the time taken to leak down is indicative of HG & ring issues.... What happened to me was the water entered the cylinder when the engine was turned off - the coolant system was pressurised by the HG leak and it leaked back into the cylinder when engine was stopped.
Thinking about this, the water is:
Leaking from the system somewhere into the outside world, so you would see traces of it somewhere.
Leaking from the system in the throttle body, so you would need to dismantle it to have a look.
Leaking into the bores somehow, most likely CHG, possibly crack in head, but then you would almost definitely pick it up on sniff test unless something very unusual was happening.
Leaking out of coolant reservoir as a result of either too much engine heat boiling up the head (uprate water pump), or CHG leak allowing pressurisation of the system, these leave a deposit around the coolant tank.
Chris
Steam is coming out the exhaust, so the water is somehow making its way into the exhaust. Suspects are/were Turbo, HG, TB. I think we've eliminated the HG. Hopefully it's the throttle body but this brings me back to my original question, is it possible for water to leak into the intake from the throttle body?! I don't know if this is a silly question as I've never inspected how the TB/IACV and plumbed in and how they work.
Quote from: "muffdan"Steam is coming out the exhaust, so the water is somehow making its way into the exhaust. Suspects are/were Turbo, HG, TB. I think we've eliminated the HG. Hopefully it's the throttle body but this brings me back to my original question, is it possible for water to leak into the intake from the throttle body?! I don't know if this is a silly question as I've never inspected how the TB/IACV and plumbed in and how they work.
Easy way to eliminate the tb is to bypass the tb heater circuit and see if you still get steam.
Chris
In respect to the Throttle body (I have a little experience in these) If it is leaking then you may be able to see condensation on the bore after the butterfly. Either way as suggested above. You might as well remove it from the equation all together. Remove the pipes from the TB and plug the longer one into where the shorter one came from on the engine.
As for coolant loss. If your sure it's getting into the cylinders then it can only be coming from the jacket or less likely a crack in the head. It's rare but I've seen another engine (not 1zz) with a crack in the exhaust port. Would have to look at my spare head to see where the water flow goes.
After blocking off the TB, water was still entering the cylinder.
So, the engine came out and the head was taken off. It wasn't clear what the problem was initially but the expert's opinions is that the liner on cylinder 1 has slipped down fractionally, allowing water to get through. Ordered a new HG from MWR along with their uprated gear set cryo treated. Going to get the head and block skimmed and put it all back together. Everything else internally looks fine.
MWR said the gearset is going be 3 weeks before they can ship it, so it's going to be a while before we know the outcome of the head gasket issue.
oh, and MWR use to use a modified 2ZZ gasket but now they have a new one. Not sure why they changed it or the details are of what's different, but a new one they do have s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "muffdan"oh, and MWR use to use a modified 2ZZ gasket but now they have a new one. Not sure why they changed it or the details are of what's different, but a new one they do have s:) :) s:)
probably because 90% of people who bought teh modified 2zz one had it leak big time
Quote from: "markiii"Quote from: "muffdan"oh, and MWR use to use a modified 2ZZ gasket but now they have a new one. Not sure why they changed it or the details are of what's different, but a new one they do have s:) :) s:)
probably because 90% of people who bought the modified 2zz one had it leak big time
fingers crossed the new one works better
if it doesn't I suggest a cometic bi metal it solved Niges problems
I hope it all works Jason. At least you've found the cause of the issue. Most important that it didn't cause a catastrophic failure. This way you can learn about the thing a bit more and sort the problem in the bargain, so there are positives. s:) :) s:)
My HG was a Ferriday bimetallic custom item, as Cometic didn't make one for my engine. Mark's right though, it has certainly done the trick on mine and its future proofed that area as well.
cheers guys s:) :) s:)
well you are confident throwing more money at MWR.
gl
Quote from: "muffdan"After blocking off the TB, water was still entering the cylinder.
So, the engine came out and the head was taken off. It wasn't clear what the problem was initially but the expert's opinions is that the liner on cylinder 1 has slipped down fractionally, allowing water to get through. Ordered a new HG from MWR along with their uprated gear set cryo treated. Going to get the head and block skimmed and put it all back together. Everything else internally looks fine.
MWR said the gearset is going be 3 weeks before they can ship it, so it's going to be a while before we know the outcome of the head gasket issue.
I Knew it!! Speak to Atomic Speedware on the Cometic HG. They got mine quick as.
Just hope that now that the sleeves have 'settled' then you won't have more problems. Though I find it worrying that MWR can't even get the sleeves right first time. Sort of suggests that the basic design of the sleeves is poor.
Quote from: "philster_d"well you are confident throwing more money at MWR.
gl
But you get to a point where the only option is to put more money in and hope it fixes the problem - or you pull the engine out and start again. I chose the latter.....
at the risk of being shot down when MWR read it, they are fine as a parts supplier
but watching the experience of others of late anythiny they have engineered themselves or god forbid assembled seems to be consistently pants
regarding the replacement HG from MWR, it's a cometic gasket:
http://store.monkeywrenchracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=43_69_87&products_id=305
SP are getting the block and head skimmed to make sure they are level and to make sure the liner on cylinder 1 is aligned with the top of the block again. Thinking about it, it's possible that it wasn't level in the first place when it was put together; not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. It would be good in the sense that it would be less likely to move in future!
Quote from: "muffdan"Thinking about it, it's possible that it wasn't level in the first place when it was put together; not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. It would be good in the sense that it would be less likely to move in future!
That really is not possible. The MWR instructions for fitting the sleeves involve skimming the face of the block once the sleeves have been pressed in place... Wishful thinking... ?
There is a fair chance that the sleeves have settled and may not move further. However when I rebuild my bored engine I will be pouring high-temp studlock over the sleeve / block join hoping that it will wick down the bore and provide further resistance to movement.
good idea
Surely the sleeves are frozen fitted? As long as everything is machined true there should be a perfect interference fit. Doubt you'll wick anything down it especially as thick as Studlock.
Glad to hear your getting it sorted Jason.
Quote from: "custardavenger"Surely the sleeves are frozen fitted? As long as everything is machined true there should be a perfect interference fit. Doubt you'll wick anything down it especially as thick as Studlock.
Glad to hear your getting it sorted Jason.
The interference fit is on the counterbore not at the top 8mm (ish) of the sleeve. Remember differential thermal expansion will open the clearances - this is most likely the problem that results in gasket issues. I would guess that they want a few more tenths of a thou interference but it is a balancing act because you don't want to crack the block by putting too much hoop tension into it. I would also use studlock on the entire OD of the sleeve if I was having them done from scratch again.
quick update. Turned out the head gasket was probably ok. There was a crack in the head, causing the water usage. Thankfully I had my old head (albeit not ported) which is being cleaned up. Gear set arrived too and now it's just a matter of putting it all back together again. s:) :) s:)
Sweet. Always good to find the cause. Hope it goes back together well.
Quote from: "muffdan"quick update. Turned out the head gasket was probably ok. There was a crack in the head, causing the water usage. Thankfully I had my old head (albeit not ported) which is being cleaned up. Gear set arrived too and now it's just a matter of putting it all back together again. s:) :) s:)
Hi Jason.
Your certainly not having much luck with these engines, I hope it's sorted now.
Just one question do you think the porting of the head caused the failure, I would have thought MWR would have carried out a crack test before they started any work to recondition a head and port it or was this done by someone else.
Rob
Not sure on any possible relationship between the crack and the porting (porting was done by MWR). I'll try and find out where the crack is, if that's possible. It'd be interesting to see the line of it. The engine has always been using a little bit of water, so it's probable the crack has always been there and it has gradually gotten worse over time.
The short story is the car still isn't back on the road due to a bad running problem we're trying to track down, but it did manage to give me a nice 20 mile drive a few weeks back. The MWR gear set is very noisy. In 3rd and 4th the car sounds like the engine has a super charger installed! Hopefully this won't be too hard to live with as these gears won't get used for cruising (much). The lower gearing makes the car much quicker, which I'm not complaining about s:D :D s:D .
do you notice any difference in revs/speed compared to original gearing?
So the MWR gears are just 3rd and 4th? I must have missed you putting them in. IF they are shorter ratios then are they similar to the MR-S? and more importantly can to do 60 in second? s:D :D s:D
The MWR gears are just 3rd and 4th, so yes, I can still do 60 in 2nd! s:D :D s:D
Definitely notice the shorter gearing looking at tacho/speedo. The ratios are about 20% lower than the standard UK box ratios. It does create a bit of a gap between 4th and 5th, but I don't expect this to cause me any issues on track, and certainly no issues in day to day driving. I'm probably going to get my rev limit upped to 7.5k or possibly 8k at the next mappping which will help close this ratio gap anyway.
More importantly, my gearbox should now be up to the task of handling the torque I'm putting through it.
That does sound as if its going to be a pretty amazing package , and not too far away hopefully.
Pioneering the gearbox mod is a good development, well done on that.
Well, the Tiddler is finally back on the road! Woohoo! Turned out to be a problem with the cam timing sensor socket not making a clean connection, adding noise to the signal when cold, causing very bad running. When warm, the plug/socket expanded and the engine ran fine.
Still not right mapping wise and of course needs the new rings running in. It was good to whip the top off and get some good motoring in last night though.
After some heavy abuse this weekend, I got home last night to find two snapped turbo-to-manifold bolts and of course accompanied by a blown gasket and carbon coating various bits of hardware in and around that area . A few of us noticed and had a play with one broken bolt at the Ding Day, (started hearing the exhaust blowing on the drive up on Friday). Another bolt followed it at some point on Saturday night. It was running really bad, very lurchy after that when trying to cruise at anything under 50mph or 3k rpms. It was also difficult to build and hold any sort of boost. Clearly the broken bolts explain the boost problem and noise, but I'm hoping that the air being pulled in through the leak at low rpm/load is what is causing the worse than usual running, and not anything else going wrong.
Looks like its off the road again s:( :( s:(
Apart from these couple of bolts, the rest of the car performed well. Lost no coolant and didn't use too much oil! s:) :) s:)
Sorry to hear that Jason.
Thanks again for the Passenger ride at the weekend. The way your car accelerates is simply astonishing s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Hope all is resolved quickly and cheaply.
Matt
Crikey dude!! Good luck getting it sorted do you use justformen?? you gotta be full grey by now?
Really doesn't bother me that much. s:) :) s:)
The biggest issues are behind me now, well the mechanical ones anyway. Just got to iron out the remaining gremlins and then figure out how to work with Thor on getting the MANY electrical problems sorted. Or find another company who can sort it out for me.
Quote from: "mattbrown82"Thanks again for the Passenger ride at the weekend. The way your car accelerates is simply astonishing s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
No probs. Sorry you couldn't experience it in all its glory! That was at just waste-gate pressure of 14psi and with a boost leak. At 23psi its pretty insane. s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: Maybe next year s;) ;) s;)
Even at 14psi it nearly made me soil myself. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I'll have to remember to bring some Brave Pills next year!!
Ok, lots happened since last update so I'll stick the important bits and summarise!
Firstly, I got very personal with the G4, the loom and sensors on the car. Found several broken wires on coils, injectors and throttle position sensor from being continuously plugged and unplugged I expect. Replaced/bypassed as necessary and the car was running perfect. No misfires, excellent throttle response, nice smooth drive and mentally quick! It lasted about 7 miles on full boost and then the head gasket failed. s:( :( s:(
Taken the head off and cylinders 1 and 3 were showing leakage along with a little bit on cylinder 2. Everything else in the engine looks good which is comforting.
So another gasket will be going in. Not sure why it went in the first place and there's a lot of worry that it will just fail again, but what can you do! There's others running this setup at my boost levels without issue so I'll put it down to incorrect lube/torque of the ARP studs by the engine builder on the last build. The head and block were both skimmed at that time and the gasket was a cometic.
good luck bud, you seem to be having some bad luck.
That's how I roll.
Bring it on!
the joy of modding a car. Have thor closed down? i drove past the workshop and it was empty.
They probably retired after what Jason has spent on the car s:) :) s:)
Thor have moved premises....
Quotewe have moved...
THOR RACING
894 Charter Avenue
Canley, Coventry
CV4 8AT
New Mobile friendly telephone number... 0330 555 4545
They're still setting up in the new home
How frustrating it is that others are reporting this all works great and yet both our engines were more like chocolate or something. s:( :( s:(
its sounds like we had exactly the same problems...
My mechanic has put it down to not enough clamping force on the head. on this rebuild we are going to put larger studs in to enable a higher clamping force.
all other avenues have been covered so its the only logical solution, even though others have the same set up and no problems
Surface finish on the head ok? Is it possible that the skim is too smooth, so the gasket can move around too much? Had that with a racing 2 stroke.
Chris
Its not something that we had thought about.
I had a dye test carried out on my coolant and it didn't show any contamination. yet under heavy pulls in 4th and 5th it would overheat immediately.
I regularly had to bleed the engine after these overheats yet when I start the car and let it idle, even drive with no boost 1st. 2nd. and 3rd the car will just about keep itself cool.
the first time I blew a gasket the car would boil the coolant even at Idle so things are a bit different this time round and I am hoping it might only need a new gasket and fresh skim.
Some gasket manufacturers require very smooth surfaces depending on the spec of their gasket. Ferriday certainly specify that. The smoothness is measured in units called Ra, but way too complicated for me. s:oops: :oops: s:oops: I'd go for a Ferriday bimetal gasket with ARP headbolts.
Speaking to a mate about this, he reckoned you need to check that the threads in the block have not stretched. He has seen it in Cosworth lumps. You can get a good idea by trying to re torque the bolts if it leaks again. If the threads have gone past their elastic limit and are creeping, you will find the torque will have dropped off on the ones that are stretched. Bigger bolts / clamping forces are likely to produce more problems than they cure. Last thought, get a local calibration service to check your torque spanner for accuracy.
Chris
Quote from: "ChrisGB"Bigger bolts / clamping forces are likely to produce more problems than they cure.
How so?
What i'm talking about it putting wider studs in which can take more clamping force
Quote from: "MR2 super GT"Quote from: "ChrisGB"Bigger bolts / clamping forces are likely to produce more problems than they cure.
How so?
What i'm talking about it putting wider studs in which can take more clamping force
The head / gasket combination are designed to sit flat at the standard clamping force. Increasing it may lead to the head "low spotting" and ending up warping, the high spots being between the bolts. A company I was with have done solid gaskets in copper to use with uprated clamping force to avoid this situation arising.
Speaking of which, I can probably still get the solid copper gaskets made, but not sure how they work out long term in an ally engine.
Chris
It wasn't too clear to me on this thread, but are you having reliability problems with the 82mm bore?
I think I have heat problems, which have caused the head to warp and the gasket to fail. I have seen very hot EGT's. The head has been skimmed, the block has been ok'd and I have a new cometic gasket arriving tomorrow/Tuesday.
I'm getting the water injection hooked up. Hopefully that will keep the temperatures down and avoid this happening again.
Quote from: "muffdan"I think I have heat problems, which have caused the head to warp and the gasket to fail. I have seen very hot EGT's. The head has been skimmed, the block has been ok'd and I have a new cometic gasket arriving tomorrow/Tuesday.
I'm getting the water injection hooked up. Hopefully that will keep the temperatures down and avoid this happening again.
Hmm
High EGTs do not necessarily relate to high combustion temperatures. It can even be that high EGTs result from running at the rich end where combustion temps are lower. Did the head measure out of specification for flatness?
Best of luck, here's hoping it seals and stays sealed this time.
Chris
yes, the head was about 2mm out.
Quote from: "muffdan"yes, the head was about 2mm out.
That would do it s:shock: :shock: s:shock: Keeping me fingers crossed for your next build.
Chris
Well its back together and on the road. Almost had an incident on a bumpy bit of back lane when I got on the power. I discovered yesterday that this was because both of my front stepper motors for the Tein EDFC had jammed and who knows what settings they were on. Whipped them off, manually set them all the same and now its fine. Trying to source a pair of replacement motors at the moment. I reduced the waste gate pressure to 12 PSI from the 15 it was to reduce the shove of the torque at the boost threshold. This has worked really well. I'll set the Storm to raise the boost as the RPM's increase for a more natural power progression through the rev range.
The car runs really rough at the moment, especially when cold and I still have high EGT issues. The water injection is going on imminently and I'm booked in at Thor next Monday for the map to be sorted out.
Having driven the Lotus for the last 5k miles I have some things I need to change on the MR2! The steering is way to light the wheel is way too big. I'm going to put a smaller wheel on it first and if its still too light, I'm going to disconnect the power steering. The T1R's are going to have to go. Not sure what I can replace them with at the moment but I'll be shopping for something that gives less motion through the side walls. The Tein SS's may be ok. I don't know if I've currently got them set to full soft or full hard (they are screwed in fully clockwise). If that is as hard as they go, I may need to look at replacing them or fitting higher rated springs. I'm going to hold off on making a call until I try the car with my track wheels on as I think the T1R's aren't helping things. My track wheels currently have Kumho K70A's on and I can't remember how the car behaved on them.
Currently I think I'll be taking the Lotus to Anglesey at the end of the month unless Thor 100% sort the mapping and heat issues next week.
Muff, why are you getting high EGT's ?
It may not be a good comparison but in the UK the ambient temps are lower than over in the US and how many of those guys running high boost/ power have water injection?
This is it, I don't know why I have high EGT's. Perhaps there's too much retard on the ignition running it hotter. The water injection is more for the charge temps. I see 60 degrees. I think my charge barrel is too small (PWR 5x6). Timing is retarded with increase in inlet temps though so water injection should help with both.
Fully clockwise is full hard on SS's
cheers Danny. Fingers crossed new tyres sort it out then!
Can't believe you're still running on T1-Rs s:shock: :shock: s:shock: Thought you would've binned those a long time ago for something decent.
lol, grip wise they're great. Feedback through them is pretty pants though. With my wheels the options have been T1R's or Falken's in the past. They're the only tyres available in 245/35/17. Options do increase if I go with a 40 profile though.
For the money you've spent on the car mate I'd have thought you'd be on the Advan Neovas
T1-Rs are average grip level at best, and certainly not suitable when running crazy power and on your budget. Were you on stock wheels I'd agree with Danny on the Neovas, but on 17s I'd be looking at Advan Sports or SportContact 3s.
Quote from: "Dan M"T1-Rs are average grip level at best, and certainly not suitable when running crazy power and on your budget. Were you on stock wheels I'd agree with Danny on the Neovas, but on 17s I'd be looking at Advan Sports or SportContact 3s.
Can't say I can agree with that. TVRs (running 400-440bhp at 1200kg) fair very well indeed on T1-Rs compared to ALL other road tyres - granted Yokos aren't available in the sizes but compared to Conti, Michelin, GY, Dunlop and Pirelli top of the tree tread patterns, the majority prefer T1-Rs. And there's a good few TVR owners who race too s;-) ;-) s;-)
And are they racing on the Rs for budget, rules, or because they're the best? I struggle to believe it's the latter. There are simply much better tyres out there and that's not including things like 048s or 888s. Still, each to their own, but I can guarantee you'll be quicker on many other tyres than the cheapy Toyos.
Must say my experience of T1-R is they don't generate as much grip as a many premium brand performance tyres but what they do offer is a very malleable and easy going behaviour at the limit. They are predictable and progressive and recover well, so although they may not be the last word in grip and lap times, they allow the driver to safely exploit the limits. By contrast, some really grippy tyres will be ultimatly faster, but nowhere near as much fun on the road. The R888 have a noticeable aadvantage in grip and very good feedback, but once you breach the limits you are not in a comfortable place on the road.
I used to find T1-R would spin up in third in the dry on the Fabia (with 283lb/ft going down the front wheels) and had less grip overall than the Kumho KU31 or Contisport Contact 2, but were grippy enough and overall made the car more engaging to drive at or beyond the limit. In the wet, they where even more exploitable with easily controlled slides even at high speeds.
I suppose that if you are chasing lap times, there are plenty of faster tyres out there, but for road use, they make a compelling choice.
Chris
Quote from: "Dan M"And are they racing on the Rs for budget, rules, or because they're the best? I struggle to believe it's the latter. There are simply much better tyres out there and that's not including things like 048s or 888s. Still, each to their own, but I can guarantee you'll be quicker on many other tyres than the cheapy Toyos.
I didn't mean they were racing on Rs, just that they also race so they too know a little bit about how cars handle s;-) ;-) s;-)
As for guarantees, weren't you guaranteeing that your 350Z was gonna be quicker than our 2s at Anglesey but you've gone off and got something with a bit more grunt just in case?!! s:-D :-D s:-D
I have no problem getting torque down through the T1-R's. The grip is great. I just don't like the way the tyres seem to give a little as you move the weight around. I guess that's the soft side walls they're renowned for.
I advanced the ignition .3 degrees across the whole map to see if it would have an effect on EGT's. It did, and the gasses now read 50 degrees cooler (after a blast up through 2 gears) with a tiny bit more pull. So it looks like it is a mapping issue and I look forward to having it properly tuned over the next week or so. I just need to find some time to get shopping for a new steering wheel and a set of tyres now.
*edit - Good feedback on the lower waste gate actuator setting. Boost now reads about 11 PSI when it kicks in which is much tamer and controllable. I've programmed in a rising boost level with revs and it currently rises from 11 at boost threshold up to 15.5PSI at 7k. This gives the car a steady build of power and you can feel it pulling harder and harder as the revs rise. Although in reality the car is much slower on a dash through the gears, it is a much more satisfying experience and definitely more enjoying to drive. I highly recommend a rising boost map to all those with turbos s:) :) s:)
Update time.
Thor have left the equation. After having possesion of my car for three weeks, they didn't even put it on the dyno. I decided they'd had enough chances to get my car sorted and decided collected the car and take my business elsewhere. Ironically the car had just been bolted to the dyno when I called to let them know I was on my way.
I took the car down to Redline in Basildon on Matt's recommendation and on the evidence of the good job Rich did with his G4. Rich there mapped the car in a day and sorted everything! The car runs great including from a cold start. No shunting, no missfires and the EGTs top out at a (mere!) 920 after a spirited driving session. The car is making 320bhp in the low boost setting at just 16PSI. High boost at 22PSI is currently unknown. s:D :D s:D
I'm very happy with the results and I would certainly recommend Redline over Thor any day. Customer service is in a different league and it appears Richard's mapping skillz trump Thor's. Rich even rode around in the car with me doing the final mapping from the passenger seat to make sure it drove as I wanted to and to iron out any glitches seen at real world loads etc. Nice.
The limiting factor with my setup at the moment is now heat soak in the charge cooler. Charge temps rise way quicker than they should and it doesn't appear to be running at its rated efficiency. We're going to try and tackle that next week with some ideas we've had!
Nice one Jason. Glad you're getting on top of it. What sort of price do redline charge. Still deciding where to take mine now I've found the WI leak.
OH and 320BHP must be fun. s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
glad im not the only one who thought Thor were clueless mappers. Glad you got it sorted mate, deffo makes you feel better.
Cheers Rob. I'm not sure what his hourly rate is. He quotes on a job by job basis though. Get in touch, he knows his stuff!
Quote from: "Ilogik"glad Im not the only one who thought Thor were clueless mappers. Glad you got it sorted mate, deffo makes you feel better.
You were right, I have to admit!
I have recently had mt tte turbo mapped by Richard, and I am happy with the results. I had bigger injectors, and a Dastek ecu with a low and high boost. I fitted a switch (window switch sprayed silver) next to the dash dimmer etc to allow switching between the two. although i need to go back for some mnior adjustments, the car feels like a rocket!! s:D :D s:D I got around 235 bhp
I would def give him a call as from watching him doing the mapping on the dyno, which is fully enclosed with fans and monitors everywhere, he really knows his stuff. He even had headphones attahced to the main block via a rubber tube to listen for knock etc while it was on the dyno.
I didnt think he was exspensive, and Sometimes it's better to go to someone who really knows their stuff, rahter than hunt round for the cheapest person in that field.
Quote from: "jamfe355"I have recently had mt tte turbo mapped by Richard, and I am happy with the results. I had bigger injectors, and a Dastek ecu with a low and high boost. I fitted a switch (window switch sprayed silver) next to the dash dimmer etc to allow switching between the two. although i need to go back for some mnior adjustments, the car feels like a rocket!! s:D :D s:D I got around 235 bhp
Can you tell me what exhaust you are running and if you mapped it on super or regular? I ask as mine maxed out at 227bhp and we were not sure if it was the exhaust or the fact i used regular fuel. Most likely it was the fuel.
I just did the same thing with my window switch, but I replaced it with this...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230498425532&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
well its kinda like a turbo symbol right! Also since I only have one map mine works by simply switching off the boost controller so it falls back down to the lower boost limit set by the turbo wastegate spring.
Jason, glad you got the car sorted in the end.
I saw it sat down at Redline when i dropped in to get Richard to solve a couple of issues on mine. He seems a great guy and is very knowledgeable, would recommend.
Rates are reasonable and best to approach Richard to get actual numbers - would bear in mind that he seems to do the job he quotes for properly and sees it through rather than some places that do the minimum needed to get you out the door and wash all accountability off their hands straight away afterwards!!
Andy.
+ 1 for Redline/Richard. He certainly managed to sort out my idle prob when I first got boosted, took him all of about 10 minutes and it hasn't missed a beat since.
Well after a modification to the charge cooler plumbing and some little modifications to the map, the car has been transformed again! it is VERY fast now.
On the new tyres front I believe the best two options available to me are:
Michelin Pilot Sport 3
Bridgestone RE050
What do we think? From some internet searching I believe the Michelin's are a clear winner. Eagle F1's and the like aren't available in both the sizes I need them.
was looking at the bridgestones, some good reviews, but a lot say they are too hard, shame you can't get the asymetriic goodyears.
I like my Michelin Pilot 2's mate, very satisfied
Aren't you on the Pilot Exaltos, Danny?
Out of those two I'd go for the RE050As, but make sure they are the As and not the originals (which were a bit rubbish). I'm running the 050As on the 911 and they're excellent in all weathers, and have driven my brother's Zed which also had them on and they were equally awesome. The PS3s are not as good as the PS2s so I wouldn't even bother looking at them tbh.
Well this sucks. They're not the RE050A's and Mitchelin PS2's don't appear as an option (I've only tried camskill and blackcircles thus far). Perhaps there's places with better with more tyre options?
For reference, the fronts are 205/40/17's and I'm getting away with using 245/40/17's on the rear as there's nothing in 35 profile. s:( :( s:(
mytyres.net
Cheers ilogik, that's a good site.
They have the RE050A's and also Eagle F1 GS-D3's. Choices choices! Interestingly (or maybe not) the RE050A for the rear is cheaper than the RE050.
Gsd3 won't like track work
I have a second set of wheels with track rubber on. The tyres I'm after now are purely for road use. Do we still think the RE050A's are the way to go?
cough get the goodyear f1 asymmetric s:) :) s:)
I'd still go with the 050As.
Contisport Contact 3 are available in your sizes and are supposed to be really good.
Chris.
Well having been significantly motivated by the current excellent running state of my car, I thought I better break it all again and rip my instrument cluster out!
I've replaced it with a single board computer connected to a daylight readable TFT display with a capacitance touch panel for input (same as that used by iPhone/iPad).
I've written a piece of software that connects to the Link over USB. It fetches the running status of the ECU and displays it. Everything is animated which doesn't come across in the pictures, but I think it looks pretty cool anyway if I do say myself! The GUI layout is very much in flux at the moment while I rearrange dials to avoid the blind-spots generated by the steering wheel. After adjustments to the physical mounting tonight, the top inch or so is now obscured. Earlier it was right across the middle, which sucked. I realised on the maiden voyage into work today that I'd completely overlooked the fuel gauge! I'll get that wired in directly to the fuel sender this coming weekend and all will be well.
Anyway, below is a screen shot of it running with procedurally generated test data. When its running in the car, all the graphs are nice interesting curves. The graph in the centre of the tacho is a history of speed over the last minute. Touching it will pause the display, touch and hold will reset. That holds true for all the gauges. They can also be dragged around with your finger to swap their order around. The two in the top corners are the 'zoomed' gauges and any of the smaller ones can occupy those top slots. I'll grab some pictures of it installed in the car tomorrow when there's some daylight.
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/Dash-1.jpg)
Nice work! Mind if I post up your instrument build on MR2Spyderweb?
Now that is clever. s:) :) s:)
Show off :p V V good! Wish I could do stuff like that.
Quote from: "blackcreek"Nice work! Mind if I post up your instrument build on MR2Spyderweb?
Sure, feel free. Please post me a link if you do though.
I also had a 3D model of my car created by one of our artists. It spins around in the background fog but I've got to get it reworked a little to work properly on the poor GPU the computer has.
What you work as mate?
I'm a technical director at a computer games company and proprietor of another sotfware house. Basically, I program.
Now thats one smart bit of kit!!
Quote from: "muffdan"I'm a technical director at a computer games company and proprietor of another sotfware house. Basically, I program.
OOO wicked, if you need a junior graphic designer for cover designs, hit me up ;P
Seriously cool.
Very nice matey s8) 8) s8)
Do you get flashing red lights when any of the values enter a danger zone? Or do you just rely on reading the numbers and making your own conclusions? Nowt wrong with the latter btw, that's what I've done in all my cars. s:) :) s:)
Tried to take some photos today, but the iPhone wasn't up to the job and they're a blurry mess. I'll have to get a real camera on it.
The gauges pulse with a red background if the current value is outside a set minimum/maximum range. I currently count the water temperature being below 70 degrees as a warning value which is a little annoying as its pulsing away for the first 5-10 minutes which is a little distracting. I'm going to have to add a third state for that case I think. The tacho also turns red when its time to change up a gear.
I'm planning to hook up my GPS dongle and buy a USB accelerometer/gyro dongle so that I can record G's and position. For those that remember the Windows Mobile GPS track day software I did, I plan on integrating that into the dash. All combined, it should prove a useful data logger for track days!
Then I've got to commercialise it, if there's a market and I can make it cheap enough. s:) :) s:) I should be able to get it working with other popular aftermarket ECU's and maybe with the CAN protocol for ultimate compatibility.
Quote from: "muffdan"Tried to take some photos today, but the iPhone wasn't up to the job and they're a blurry mess. I'll have to get a real camera on it.
Shall I bring a D-SLR and selection of lenses round over the weekend then? s:D :D s:D
Lol, that would do the trick mate. Does it record video? s:D :D s:D
No, but my phone does hi-def video....
Dash is more complete now. I've reworked the GUI a bit. There's some art bugs I'm getting fixed with the car model, but the layout is now working well for me. I did half-day at a local airfield track day yesterday and tried to set some decent 0 to 60 times recorded, but it is surprisingly hard to do (unless you come to a complete stop out on track!) and the wet surface out on track and on the public roads didn't help. Bends/cones kept getting in the way of the higher speed times too, so I'm a bit disappointed I couldn't really get hard figures of what the car can deliver. I guess a dry day at the drag strip would be better for this.
Managed to take a couple of videos of the dash in action. The first is stationary so gives a clearer view of the animations in play and the 3D car model in the background. The second one shows my passenger (attempting) to record whilst I'm driving so is a little dodgy!
http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/Dash/001.MOV
http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/Dash/002.MOV
Here's some pics of the current install. I need to get something fabricated for the surround now that the fit and placement of the hardware is finalised:
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/Dash/033.JPG)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/Dash/036.JPG)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/Dash/037.JPG)
That looks cool Jas, get a kit organised + install and you might be onto a winner. BTW where is Rev Counter s:? :? s:? (or is it one or the other?
Quote from: "roger"BTW where is Rev Counter s:? :? s:? (or is it one or the other?
I think it just might be the big blue circle in the middle of the display s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Very flash Jason! Good news that the car seems to be running reliably now s8) 8) s8)
Looks wicked, bit square s:) :) s:) but the display itself looks wicked.
I got the Continental Contact Sport 3's on the car and a 4 wheel alignment done. It massively improved the handling of the car and it is now much more planted and less squirmy when getting hard on/off the power/brakes. Big thumbs up!
How soft are the tyres, been thinking of getting some.
Looks awesome J so what is the unit, spec, etc?
Quote from: "muffdan"I got the Continental Contact Sport 3's on the car and a 4 wheel alignment done. It massively improved the handling of the car and it is now much more planted and less squirmy when getting hard on/off the power/brakes. Big thumbs up!
Hi Jason.
Did you get the motors sorted.
Rob.
No motors ordered yet Rob. Still running the teins as you left them.
Russ, the unit is a custom spec/built rig I ordered. It mainly comprises:
3.5" Single Board Computer (EC3-1811LDNA) with Intel T2500 Core Duo 2 processor and 2GB RAM
Intel® 945GM GPU
NEC 8.4" transflective TFT,with 3M Capacitive touchscreen bonded to it.
80GB OCZ Vertex2 SSD for OS and data storage.
PC-Control USB Digi-Bee+ PCB with appropriate resistor bridges for the IO with the car's wiring (fuel gauge, indicators, instrument dimming, high beam etc).
The screen is connected to the SBC via LVDS and the touch screen is connected via a 3M CX series USB controller. I have a GADIWA-3120 power converter which generates the appropriate stable voltage rails for the SBC and the screen.
Quote from: "Ilogik"How soft are the tyres, been thinking of getting some.
I was told when I ordered them that they were soft and wouldn't last long. I don't know how soft as I haven't had them long enough. The T1R's were soft too of course.
I've only just stumbled across these updates mate, very impressive work s:) :) s:) Just got to sort out a nice looking cluster now, seems a bit weird with a random TFT panel sticking out of your dashboard like that! :p
Quote from: "muffdan"3.5" Single Board Computer (EC3-1811LDNA) with Intel T2500 Core Duo 2 processor and 2GB RAM
bloody hell, that's more powerful my pc!! s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Mighty good work Jason.
If I was you, with the screen I would move the gear and time down a bit so that when you build a it in you can curve the top to match the curve of the dash. I assume you're not going to be watching movies on it so loosing the corners shouldn't be a problem and it will make it look more stock.
Also I assume you can change the display easily to display different things. I just wondered why you chose MPH for the graph. I would have thought MPG or even G would be more useful.
Update:
Decided to replace the GT28RS with a GT3071R. Whilst at it, I'm replacing the 5x6" charge cooler with a 5x10". The Bosch 20 litres/min water pump for the charge cooler is being switched out for a Craig Davies 115 litres/min pump. Re-routing the pumbing for it to be 'over the top' rather than the TTET's 'under and over' approach. For those that know where the TTET kit places its intercooler, you'll know that its a long pipe run and unnecessary in a charge cooler setup.
Also replacing the engine loom as its had it and putting in a new set of piston rings as cylinder 1 showed 30psi in a compression test.
Hopefully the larger turbo more suited to the engine's size and power output, along with a better charge cooler setup will see an end to the high inlet temperature problem I've been plagued with forever.
My goodness, you have been busy. The intake pipe run being shorter might help to offset lag with the bigger turbo hopefully.
Do you know what's killed the piston ring? Hopefully it's just the ring, not the ring lands. You do seem to be forever tearing the motor down, though!
Its not clear why the compression was down on cylinder 1. It wasn't noticably down on power when warmed up and the only hint was it firing on 3 cylinders when first started (which my ear didn't detect!). With it stripped, the bore, rings and piston all look ok as do the valves and head gasket. The piston was a little cleaner and the crown and exhaust outlet was wet with oil/fuel. The engine had been sitting for a fair bit so oil had settled before the compression test was done. We're going to get the injectors flow tested to rule in/out bore wash.
Once the bore's honed, the new rings fitted and the head is back on, we'll do a compression test with the engine on the floor and hopefully all will be equal.
The engine had been driven for over 1k miles with Thor's bad map on it. Perhaps that did the damage.
More updates, it's been a while.
As usual, the brown stuff hits the spiny thing and nothing is ever simple.
Compression was down primarily because of ever so slightly bent valves (4 exhaust and 2 inlet). The rings all appeared to be sealing fine. No idea why/how the valves were bent.
The engine is still in pieces due to delays in discovering these bent valves and then getting the new ones along with getting the other head work that's been needed done, along with the recent bank holidays. Looks like it isn't going to be on the road for the Ding Day next weekend. s:( :( s:( Hopefully it will be done (and run in) in time for the Euro road trip on 25th though. My back is getting rather tired of long journeys in the Elise.
So your car doesn't really spend the majority of it's time on the road does it s:D :D s:D
Indeed not, that's why I had to buy a spare car.
I actually do enjoy learning and (hopefully) making it bigger and better with each iteration. I will get reliability and performance eventually!
You got rogue to get it going yet s:P :P s:P I still need to see the beasty, if your still looking for a mapper, can highly recommend greg gush at Pro tuner.
for teh next time you pop a gex :-) :-) :-)
m http://www.hangar111.com/web-store/551- ... ntial.html (http://www.hangar111.com/web-store/551-jubu-racing-6-speed-sequential.html) m
Oh, nice toys! s:) :) s:)
Want.
I hope my jubu gearset packs up soon s:) :) s:)
Can someone explain to a noob the difference between a normal box and sequential? Looks a beast s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
It's in the name
Sequential
Quote from: "Ilogik"Can someone explain to a noob the difference between a normal box and sequential? Looks a beast s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
se·quen·tial /sɪˈkwɛnʃəl/
[si-kwen-shuhl] Show IPA
–adjective
1. characterised by regular sequence of parts.
2. following; subsequent; consequent.
You wouldn't need to use the clutch or to lift the throttle. You just slam it up/down and it changes pretty much instantly. It's like driving an SMT or automatic but on steroids as there's no pause in the acceleration. You'd only need the clutch to stop/start.
Quote from: "muffdan"You wouldn't need to use the clutch or to lift the throttle. You just slam it up/down and it changes pretty much instantly. It's like driving an SMT or automatic but on steroids as there's no pause in the acceleration. You'd only need the clutch to stop/start.
If you read the text, they recommend using the clutch when down shifting -
Gearbox Operation:
As with most sequential solutions, the clutch is needed to shift into 1st gear for pulling away. The accelerator must be lifted for all up-shifts. The clutch is needed for all downshifts, however a very careful driver can achieve clutchless downshifts but it does put the gearbox at risk of damage. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
WITH OEM ECU & JUBU FLAT-SHIFT BOX: The accelerator can be left flat to the floor on all up-shifts.
sometimes i hate this site as you guys keep on giving me ideas on spending even more money. now im going to go off before some tells me you can fit this to a roadster.
I can't believe you guys actually bothered to try and explain, it was clear enough in the description and even clearer in the vid on the link that Mark put up.
This mod is only for the terminally wealthy though.
What kind of price is a bit of 'gear' like that likely to set you back?
I think its one of those things that if we have to ask, we can't afford it.
Never good when they tell you to call for a price! I have just their 3rd/4th gears in both my boxes and that costs something like £750
If its anything like the one quoted over on spyderchat for a gt300 genuine car, id say about 3k.
Quote from: "Ilogik"Can someone explain to a noob the difference between a normal box and sequential? Looks a beast s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
In addition to the above info, the sequential box shift mechanism is normally a ratchet driven selector drum which moves the selector forks. This means than the box can only change up or down one gear per lever movement (so not able to go directly from 5th to 3rd for example).
Chris
Quote from: "ChrisGB"the box can only change up or down one gear per lever movement (so not able to go directly from 5th to 3rd for example).
Not really a problem when you only have to push/pull the lever though, given the speed of the changes. (Apologies for the rather rude pruning of your post).
Quote from: "filcee"Quote from: "ChrisGB"the box can only change up or down one gear per lever movement (so not able to go directly from 5th to 3rd for example).
Not really a problem when you only have to push/pull the lever though, given the speed of the changes. (Apologies for the rather rude pruning of your post).
The sequential nature of it is a positive bonus when trying to change gear under big braking or cornering forces. No worries about a mis shift across the gate.
Chris
Quote from: "ChrisGB"Quote from: "filcee"Quote from: "ChrisGB"the box can only change up or down one gear per lever movement (so not able to go directly from 5th to 3rd for example).
Not really a problem when you only have to push/pull the lever though, given the speed of the changes. (Apologies for the rather rude pruning of your post).
The sequential nature of it is a positive bonus when trying to change gear under big braking or cornering forces. No worries about a mis shift across the gate.
Chris
It is an unwelcome distraction when being precise.
Now thats loooovely. At some point in my life I will own a car with a sequential box. Even if I have to sell my house. BTW 3K plus building into a box would be Very cheap for sequential. Check out the Quafe prices s:) :) s:)
So the Stage 4 Turbo project is complete. MOT passed today and tax paid for. I pick it up tomorrow and I'm pretty excited to see the results! Fully beefed up charge cooling system, rerouted shorter run inlet and a pretty big turbo with a new manifold (the TTET one I had just didn't have the room required for the GT30 to clear the block), a modified exhaust and some other bits and bobs.
The engine has new piston rings and valves, so it'll need running in before I can properly open her up. Pictures to follow!
Are you coming to CAE? Need to see that car! s:-D :-D s:-D
Quote from: "muffdan"So the Stage 4 Turbo project is complete. MOT passed today and tax paid for. I pick it up tomorrow and I'm pretty excited to see the results! Fully beefed up charge cooling system, rerouted shorter run inlet and a pretty big turbo with a new manifold (the TTET one I had just didn't have the room required for the GT30 to clear the block), a modified exhaust and some other bits and bobs.
The engine has new piston rings and valves, so it'll need running in before I can properly open her up. Pictures to follow!
ive been waiting for the news on this since i heard the rumors of the new turbo. any idea of power yet?
I saw the car yesterday. Looks very tidy indeed. I love how youve worked everything in there. Cant wait for a ride once its run in s:) :) s:)
Hope to see it on Friday s:D :D s:D
the gearbox will be dead before then Les :-) :-) :-)
Looking forward to seeing the work myself Nathan! Should look pretty good with your carbon cover on! s:) :) s:)
No power figures yet Richard. It'll push out what it was before but hopefully it'll do it all day long rather than for 2 minutes before inlet temperatures becomes a problem. That should be around 350bhp. Given the car is mapped through a MAP sensor and the turbo is bigger, the current ECU mapping will work just fine with the new setup. I will get it remapped (increasing the red line) later in the year, hopefully to around the 400bhp mark. I know the current MR2 map is good though and as I need to get some reliable miles out of the MR2 I'm going to leave it be! The Lotus is due its next round of work now which will put that off the road for a while so I won't have a spare car if the MR2 were to develop a serious problem.
Quote from: "markiii"the gearbox will be dead before then Les :-) :-) :-)
(http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/image.php?u=393&dateline=1166793586)
Some pictures:
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/engine/069.JPG)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/engine/070.JPG)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/engine/072.JPG)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/engine/074.JPG)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/engine/076.JPG)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/engine/078.JPG)
The oil catch tank is temporary as I'm going to change the breather setup. It'll have a decent bracket made up and it'll look tidier than it currently is.
I like the way things are mounted from the brace - that plus everything being coated makes it all look very 'factory'.. aside from the catch can s;) ;) s;) and, ironically, the factory alarm sensor!
That looks really tidy and stock!! I will definitely be wanting a nosey in the metal at CAE s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Very nice!!
Got me thinking that I should wrap my manifold now (may help to keep engine bay temps down), what heat wrap is that??
Andy.
Quote from: "andywood"what heat wrap is that??
You'd have to ask Matt I'm afraid. He sourced it for me.
That looks awesome !!! Must be some experience to have that much power in a "2". s:scared: :scared: s:scared:
Quote from: "muffdan"Quote from: "andywood"what heat wrap is that??
You'd have to ask Matt I'm afraid. He sourced it for me.
It comes from Trident Racing Supplies at Silverstone Circuit
I think I need some of that as well...I am noticing a lot of heat at the back of the car. Is it expensive?
Not sure how much it cost now. It certainly wasn't enough for me to remember so I guess it didn't break the bank! s:) :) s:)
Well quick update. Those from CAE will be aware that I had a misfire a few days before the event, which I tracked down to a dodgy coil pack. I had a couple of spares so I switched the faulty one out and all was good.
Ordered a new wideband kit and wired that up. The ECU is now running from a closed loop AFR target table again which has seemed to have helped fuel consumption. AFRs look good throughout the rev range.
This weekend I developed another misfire. Another coil pack I figured! Wrong! I loose connection on an injector sorted and now all is well again in that department. There is an exhaust blow but I can't see where it's coming from. It's not loud enough to worry me but I'll keep an ear out for it and see if it gets any worse.
Now that the engine's run in, I got to play with it on a local airfield trackday last Friday. The car is performed very well. Inlet temperatures are much better. Where I was seeing an increase on 40 degrees over ambient within 20 seconds at Christmas, it now takes a minute or so to get that warm. It returns to ambient much quicker too. Acceleration times on the day were:
0..60 at 3.8 seconds
60..100 at 4.6 seconds
This is still running on the old map. I haven't upped the rev limit yet or increased the boost. These figures are significantly faster than it was at the start of the year (despite the warmer weather) when it was achieving a 0..60 of 4.2 seconds and 0..100 of 5.3 seconds. I guess the bent valves coupled with the high inlet temperatures were seriously hurting it.
All in all, very pleased with it and hopefully it'll stay working for a while now! Once the lotus has been reworked I'll get the MR2 mapped up to 8k and a dyno print out.
Quote from: "muffdan"Acceleration times on the day were:
0..60 at 3.8 seconds
60..100 at 4.6 seconds
s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes: s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:
Want one! Congrats J. Hope it keeps on going now!! Sounds like you have irradicated a lot of issues and it's running a lot sweeter!! s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "AmeR"Quote from: "muffdan"Acceleration times on the day were:
0..60 at 3.8 seconds
60..100 at 4.6 seconds
s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes: s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:
I was trying to think of a good response and that about covers it, so +1
As above...
s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes: s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:
AWESOME!
Meah!........ok I suppose s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
That is well into supercar territory! Must be a blast to drive. How is traction on the Contis? The 0 _60 time indicates it is good s:D :D s:D
Chris
Yes, traction with the conti's (in the dry) is absolutely fine. Much better than the T1R's were. I only run 60% boost in 1st gear and there's no wheel spin (unless you try for it with super high revs). Nailing it out of a corner in second gear is fine too although I don't have the courage to WOT it in that situation!
In the wet it lights up the rears in 4th gear. Not fun.
The close ratio 3rd/4th gear set I have definitely helps the acceleration times as red line in 4th is not much north of 100. I dragged from 60 to 100 just using 4th in ~5.5 seconds give or take a couple of tenths. Understandably when its put in 5th, there's an exagerated feeling of power loss. I think I might change the 5th gear ratio for the Lotus version too but keep 6th as it is for cruising.
Very very s8) 8) s8)
I-ll wait till I know your in top gear when we do our next continental run then nail it and watch you eat my dust s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "Les"I-ll wait till I know your in top gear when we do our next continental run then nail it and watch you eat my dust s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Only on the straights though, Les! s;) ;) s;)
Had a full brake overhaul. Refurbed callipers, new discs/pads and fluid change. I went with the black diamond grooved and drilled discs again but switched from the Carbotech XP8 pads to Yellow Stuff. The braking performance is no where near that of the XP8s on both initial bite and more critically on brake fade. When on the track rubber, I think they'll be found unacceptable and I believe I'll have to get myself a set of track pads to switch in/out when I swap the track wheels on/off. I'm not sure I'll stick with yellow stuff at the next change for every day use. However, they are MUCH cheaper and don't have the annoying constant squeal I use to have from the XP8s though. I'll see how they go. Perhaps I'll forget how good the XP8s were and get comfortable with the Yellow Stuffs!
And since yesterday morning, she is no more!
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/MR2Done/001.jpg)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/MR2Done/002.jpg)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/MR2Done/003.jpg)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/MR2Done/004.jpg)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/MR2Done/005.jpg)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/MR2Done/006.jpg)
Bloody hell !! Hope your ok mate? What happened..? s:( :( s:(
Holy crap on a cracker!! Hope you're ok!?
Quite a tumble there Jason, glad you got out ok .. even if a bit sore.
This doesn't seem like a good year for the turbo fraternity.
It's really shocking to see this, glad you're OK, I still get that shoulder looked at as the results of that type in injury can be life changing (speaking from experience of a work colleague). It was on the road then - just yourself???
Yes Nic it would appear we are losing turbo's quicker than they can be produced - that's two of the top output machines gone, plus the second green one in as many weeks.
Rob.
s:shock: :shock: s:shock: Strewth!! That looks like it was a biggie! Lucky to walk away from that one.
Loads of money gone into that, great shame,but main thing is that you're okay. s;) ;) s;)
Bollocks! Hope you are not too sore. On the bright side, you can pick up another shell quite cheaply and transfer the (surviving) expensive bits over.
Chris
s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:
Sorry to hear this. Glad you're ok.
I was going to say 'you missed a bit' but having studied the pictures it appears you didn't.
Holy cow, there's not a panel on there that didnt take a beating!
Glad you are ok, so what are the plans for the MWR lump then?
holy mother of god. somebody upstairs likes you jason to come out of that alive. did any of the mods survive?
Fkin Spiders!! Pleased to hear you walked away from it.
What did you hit?
Really scary stuff to see that front wheel cracked like that!!
ouch you did a proper job on that
lucky your still here to be positing about it.
Jeeez!! So pleased you walked away from that, it must have been horrendous. Get yourself checked out as i had a similar one and thought i was ok but ended being up strapped up for three months. Think my car will stay on the drive now!!!
Oh Jason, what a mess. Brings back awful memories of Tuscany...shudders. So glad you are ok ( I presume) but like us it will probably haunt you. Hoping we can have a chat at Michelles. s:( :( s:(
Real shame that dude.. Hope you are ok
s:shock: :shock: s:shock: thats a pretty serious looking smack s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
I hope your OK, gutted for you.
nooooooooooooooooooooooo s:cry: :cry: s:cry: s:cry: :cry: s:cry: s:cry: :cry: s:cry: s:cry: :cry: s:cry: Not our fastest, best-est turbo'd 2. With aftermarket TC too, how did that happen?
Anyway glad your still in one piece!
Quote from: "FGrob"Yes Nic it would appear we are losing turbo's quicker than they can be produced - that's two of the top output machines gone, plus the second green one in as many weeks. Rob.
Huh? who else has binned one?
Quote from: "stargazer30"Quote from: "FGrob"Yes Nic it would appear we are losing turbo's quicker than they can be produced - that's two of the top output machines gone, plus the second green one in as many weeks. Rob.
Huh? who else has binned one?
ac's old red rocket
Christ on a bike ,not another one s:-o :-o s:-o
Such a shame,seems to be happening a lot both here and on oc recently, main thing is you are here to tell the tale.
As it happens, I'd already started a new joint project MR2 build with SP Matt the day before the accident by collecting a car with a knackered engine. That project has now gotten itself a nice boost of readily available performance parts, and the green carcass is arriving with Matt this morning to be stripped down. Along with the JDM body kit I still have in the garage, I'm now very excited about the build. It will result in something better (although not green this time)!
Christ that looks like a big bump, you don't do anything by halves, do you? Glad you're okay and seem to be taking it on the chin!
Every cloud hey Jason s;) ;) s;)
Really sorry to see this. Glad you ok
You always paint it green s:D :D s:D
Good to hear something is going to be rising from the ashes.
s:( :( s:( ...this is so sad, Jason... great car and a huge shame, but happy to hear you're ok... take care x
s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
I can't believe you got out of that. I am pleased to hear your Ok.
Your pants may smell funny after that roll but at least your breath was fresh!
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/MR2Done/006.jpg)
(http://www.jfmstudios.com/pics/MR2Done/003.jpg)
Just realised how well that banana spoiler did considering the bent and twisted metal around it!?
Quote from: "AmeR"Just realised how well that banana spoiler did considering the bent and twisted metal around it!?
Is that a subtle dibs? s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Woah Jason glad you're alright, another lovely car bites the dust s:( :( s:( At least you're in good spirits about the new project though.
Hope it was nothing to do with the Yellowstuffs you said you weren't necessarily getting on with so well?
well it definately didn't stop when it was supposed to :-) :-) :-)
No, more to do with going around a bend and finding one of these stationary on the exit:
[Admin] Image link removed, no longer valid and Google are declaring war on links they think are unnatural [/admin]
It was filling up a residential fuel tank. Had a car queued behind it waiting to overtake. I wasn't able to stop in time. There was a little bit of contact between the three of us and then a few trees and telegraph poles weighed in too. No-one seriously hurt.
Quote from: "muffdan"No, more to do with going around a bend and finding one of these stationary on the exit:
[Admin] Image link removed, no longer valid and Google are declaring war on links they think are unnatural [/admin]
It was filling up a residential fuel tank. Had a car queued behind it waiting to overtake. I wasn't able to stop in time. There was a little bit of contact between the three of us and then a few trees and telegraph poles weighed in too. No-one seriously hurt.
I always wondered how those guys get parked up safely to do deliveries ... obviously they don't! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Ah, so you broke highway code rule 101, never argue with something much bigger than you are, or with alot more wheels or made by volvo. s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:
I didn't hit the truck. I clipped the car behind it, then had a off road experience! The car I clipped did then hit the truck though.
The insurance company must have been lightning quick for you to start dismantling at Matt's already. That's some service.
I haven't bothered claiming. The car is worth more in pieces!
Quote from: "muffdan"I haven't bothered claiming. The car is worth more in pieces!
In all honesty, I think this is a sensible thing to do if the car owes you nothing (or you can afford it s:lol: :lol: s:lol: )
I detest Insurance companies and the legalised blackmail they practice.
Ah, I guess the insurance will be involved in some capacity due to the other folks. One less thing to worry about though. s;) ;) s;)
... and she still drives! Although apparently not in a very straight line!
Wow! Glad you're ok. Tell me that you got a Doc. to give you the once over.
There will soon be more parts for cars than cars to put them on at this rate s:D :D s:D
jesus mate that looks horrible, amazed how well the soft top held out, i take it you rolled from the mud on the roof?
Quote from: "muffdan"As it happens, I'd already started a new joint project MR2 build with SP Matt the day before the accident by collecting a car with a knackered engine. That project has now gotten itself a nice boost of readily available performance parts, and the green carcass is arriving with Matt this morning to be stripped down. Along with the JDM body kit I still have in the garage, I'm now very excited about the build. It will result in something better (although not green this time)!
good timing
you didn't bag this by any chance? l viewtopic.php?f=30&t=38267 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=38267) l
Quote from: "markiii"you didn't bag this by any chance? l viewtopic.php?f=30&t=38267 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=38267) l
Might've done...! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I gather I'm going to be seeing you soon, bringing me some seats. That's brill, much appreciated.
Jason's car is quite a wreck and although it's now driving (and that's a VERY loose description), it did require a few suspension parts, some ratchet straps and a full set of space savers to mobilise it. He was, as someone said to me moments after I wrecked my car (without insurance), "very lucky".
yep no probs should be the week after next
Late to the party ....... but s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:shock: :shock: s:shock: The price of oil eh?
Get better sooner Jason. Savlon and Salvage FTW s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Glad you're ok Jason.. now.. stop driving like an as.......... what's that word again Jason?? s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Good luck with the new project too m8.
OMG! s:scared: :scared: s:scared: s:scared: :scared: s:scared: s:scared: :scared: s:scared: Really gutted for your car but she looked after you right to the end, glad you are OK and hope you get the new project on the road really soon.
Blimey, that looks like quite a shunt!
Wow Jason..real glad that you came out allright!! We've seen also our fair share of serious MR2 accidents here and the little b*st*rds protect us fully even though they don't look like it!
Happy to see that there is going to be another MR2 for a heart transplant!! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Just unbelievable, glad you are ok and already starting a new project! Its upsetting to think how easy it is to get in a horrible and even life threatening situation :/ Think i'll be driving slowly around blind corners for a while! (Actually talking of this...a Honda S2000 came towards me around a blind corner in the middle of the road on Sunday and caused me to have to drive up a bank to avoid him/her...Im just glad I was driving sensibly enough and there weren't any trees etc on that bank!)
Wow how did I miss this post,what a shame to a truly great motor. s:( :( s:(
Good to see, despite the putting to bed of the Green Beast, that Jason is continuing to push the limits of his cars to the max with his new wheels, complete with Mods:
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/Peterborough%20June%202012/9b56ea3d.jpg)
(http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/P_AmeR/Peterborough%20June%202012/1b9a89fb.jpg)
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: pimp my ride
So glad to see you walked away from this one, Dan.
Now that youve had time to reflect on your adventure, I was just wondering if you learned anything from it? I saw your car in the flesh recently, and sadly its similar to many I see in the salvage yards. Many have blood on the inside and sadly on the outside.
...bit late I know but **ck...you were lucky to walk away from that
I happened to be doing a search on tte turbo and saw the pics...recognised the yellow interior straight away!
Glad ur ok
sorry to drag up bad memories but this is the 1st time I've been on here in ages!
Just wanted to pay my respects to the car and my condolence to you Jason.