As most of you will be aware, the 1ZZ engine that was installed in the MR2 Roadster is known to have suffered failures due to disintegration of the pre-cats in the exhaust manifold and/or oval boring of the cylinders. More information is already available here:
Pre Cats: The Official MR2-ROC Information Thread (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11393)
This thread is not to discuss the whats, whys or where-fors of these problems, it is to collate as much information as we can on known failures, to assist those people that are unfortunate enough to have a Roadster that is affected by this. With this in mind, please only post if you have relevant info relating to a specific vehicle that has failed.
Your help with this is really appreciated, and will hopefully help to show fellow members that there is 'life after pre-cat/oval bore failure'.
If you could answer as many of the following questions as possible and post them in a reply to this thread, that would be excellent:
Date vehicle purchased:
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction):
Year of vehicle registration:
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here):
Did you notice high oil consumption:
Date of Failure:
Mileage at time of failure:
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure:
If yes, please detail the modifications:
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc):
Was the failure reported to Toyota:
If yes, please detail their response:
Was the vehicle repaired:
If yes, please detail how, and where:
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it:
Would you recommend their service to other members:
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed:
* Rebored:
* Oversized pistons:
* New ring:
* Little ends:
* Crank grind:
* Big Ends:
* Oil Seals:
Was the main CAT replaced:
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement:
If you have any questions or comments related to this, please post them in the discussion thread (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23265), not in here.
Thank you very much in advance for your help.
Date vehicle purchased: October 2000
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): New from a franchised Toyota dealer
Year of vehicle registration: 2000
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): s:oops: :oops: s:oops: about every 6 months
Did you notice high oil consumption: Noticed excessive smoke from the back when warm whilst driving
Date of Failure: December 2008
Mileage at time of failure: 74k
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: no
If yes, please detail the modifications:
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): Progressive - no noticable power loss, just a lot of smoke although went over a speed bump and probably dislodged a piece of pre-cat s:shock: :shock: s:shock: as the exhaust changed note and power dropped away. Fortunately it went back to normal after a bit - didn't realise it was pre-cats until everything was cracked apart.
Was the failure reported to Toyota: Yes, diagnosed by dealer
If yes, please detail their response: Referred to Piston Ring modifiation TSB and stated that the repair would have been covered under the extended 7 year warranty that Toyota allowed for this particular problem. Unfortunately my car's 8 years old, however he said that he would have still tried to get it done except that it's not been dealer serviced since the extended warranty expired 3 years ago - therefore to others with newer/full dealer history, it's worth a try! After they diagnosed it, I told them that I was going to get a recon installed elsewhere but when I went in to pay the fee for the diagnosis, they said they were in a Christmas mood and didn't charge me s:o :o s:o one up Cambridge Toyota!
Was the vehicle repaired: Yes
If yes, please detail how, and where: After being turned down by 9 local garages that didn't want to tie their lift up for a couple of days, I took it to http://www.archdeaconmotors.co.uk/ Archdeacon Motors, 32 Cheddars Lane, Cambridge, CB5 8LD. Had a reconditioned engine delivered to them from Prestige Engine Products http://www.prestigeengine.co.uk/engines.html (which was actually remanufactured by Ivor Searle) at just under £1700 exchange. They charged for 8 hours labour, and were honest and stated that they weren't entirely sure as they'd not done it before. Also got a secondhand standard manifold from e-bay which I de-catted (with enormous satisfaction) that they fitted although they warned me of possible emission warning lights etc. Also got a a new front-pipe/main cat (as oil was apparently dripping out of the exhaust so I assumed that cat would have gone too) and new clutch from Chris at cheaptoyotaparts http://www.cheaptoyotaparts.co.uk to be delivered next week for them to fit. Update: The garage doing the swap phoned to warn me that when he removed the manifold, he noticed that the pre-cats had started to disintegrate. As to which came first, the pre-cats or the oval-bores, who knows? The only certainty is that on my engine they've both happened.
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: Oops, sorry, see above for details of re-con engine - updates to come when it's in. Spoke to a number of breakers, current prices are £1k for ~35k '03 secondhand engine. I did find a number of re-con engines on e-bay going for ~£850, but after googling the phone number, I found a few negative comments about them and so elected for Prestige instead. Toyota's alternative option was a replacement Optifit short block (Toyota factory re-con) + new manifold and front-pipe/main cat. They wouldn't remove the pre-cats or acknowledge a problem. Toyota's quote was £4.7k all in including VAT.
Would you recommend their service to other members: Wholeheartedly. I've been ripped off by quite a few garages around Cambs with my old Mk1 s:roll: :roll: s:roll: so I consider myself qualified to spot a good'un. They were very good at feeding back progress to me and were honest about the cost and timing for everything. They showed me the work as it was in progress and what had been done on the car - best of all, they were the only local garage out of 10 that I phoned who wanted to take the job on!
Was the main CAT replaced: New main CAT on order to be fitted as part of the swap.
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement:180 at the moment. Keeping under 3500 rpm and taking it for an oil change at ~500 miles. I'll update this post if anything goes wrong, otherwise I'll be still rolling! s8) 8) s8)
Date vehicle purchased: 02/01/2008
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): Independent Dealer
Year of vehicle registration: 2001
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): Weekly
Did you notice high oil consumption: No
Date of Failure: 11/11/08
Mileage at time of failure: 64000
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: No
If yes, please detail the modifications:
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): Noticed some smoke on WOT on motorway in my mirror, I assumed this was from the large diesel white van behind me. Damage ocurred during high-speed 4000RPM, 50 mile run. No other symptoms, until decellerating onto exit slip, mechanical knocking on 1 cylinder whilst engine braking approaching roundabout. Poor idle, on 3 cyls. Limped to office and shut down. Oil level zero
Was the failure reported to Toyota: Yes
If yes, please detail their response: Out of 7 year period.
Was the vehicle repaired: Yes, recon engine fitted
If yes, please detail how, and where:
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: Engine - EuroJap engines, Trafford Park, Manchester - also called "Searchparts" on eBay (£1069 Delivered inc VAT, 12 Month Warranty, genuine MR2 specific 1ZZ, not generic). Fitting - DA France Motor Engineers, Galgate, Lancaster.
Would you recommend their service to other members: Fitting - Yes, great local garage. Problems with recon engine - Code 1349 (VVTi problem), Leaking Rear Main Oil Seal - engine being fixed under warranty, only 1400 miles!
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed:
* Rebored:
* Oversized pistons:
* New ring:
* Little ends:
* Crank grind:
* Big Ends:
* Oil Seals:
Was the main CAT replaced: No
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement:0
Should have it back by the end of today, will post and let you all know.
Update - They never did fix the VVTi problem. I suspect they didn't prime the VVTi actuator properly during the rebuild. It also rattles a bit on start-up, so I'm going to do the oil pump as well. All in all, not a great quality rebuild! I'm sure it will get to the end of the warranty though...just...
Date vehicle purchased: 2004 ish
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): Independant Dealer
Year of vehicle registration: 2001 (x)
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): Every time I used it. Noticed it was getting oil thirsty so made sure I kept it topped up at all times. Before that, weekly.
Did you notice high oil consumption: Yup.
Date of Failure: Friday (3rd April 2009)
Mileage at time of failure: 165k
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: No
If yes, please detail the modifications: n/a
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): Noticed engine was running very sweetly for about three days prior to failure. Driving down M40, keeping it steady as usual until warmed up noticed ticking noise from engine bay. Settled into inside lane just in case. Lost power (revs dropped to :3k) so pulled onto hard shoulder. Noticed steam coming from engine bay, popped the lid and coolant tank was boiling up with mayo oozing out from under cap. Removed oil filler cap and steam / smoke coming out. Left it to cool down and recovered home. Tried to turn it over at home but zero compression.
Was the failure reported to Toyota: not yet
If yes, please detail their response: well out of 7 year period with high miles so probably wont bother
Was the vehicle repaired: not yet - see other post. I'm looking for some advice on this s;-) ;-) s;-) will update details.
If yes, please detail how, and where: n/a
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: tbc
Would you recommend their service to other members: tbc
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed: tbc
* Rebored:
* Oversized pistons:
* New ring:
* Little ends:
* Crank grind:
* Big Ends:
* Oil Seals:
Was the main CAT replaced: tbc
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement:tbc
Date vehicle purchased: April 2008
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): Independent dealer
Year of vehicle registration: 2001
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): about once every month and then every week after i realised it was burning oil quicker then normal
Did you notice high oil consumption: yes definatley
Date of Failure: Decembrer 2008
Mileage at time of failure: 44000
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: No
If yes, please detail the modifications: N/A
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): noticed high oil consumption, engine begun to progressively sound worse, the oil needed topping up nearly every week (about every 100 miles or so s:| :| s:| ), smoke coming from the exhuast, eventually a terrible tapping sound from deep inside the engine.
Was the failure reported to Toyota: Yes
If yes, please detail their response: They said they could do nothing to help me as the car is one year past its already extended warranty. They said there is no reason why it wouldnt be covered by the warranty I purchased with my MR2 from the independant dealership. They were wrong. I was then quoted nearly £3500 by the toyota garage to get it back on the road.
I did convince the guy on the Toyota relations help line to send me an official letter explaining the known problem and detailing why they extended the warranty from 3 to 7 years rather then dong a recall. I am using this letter as evidence to help make a claim with the finance company as im still need to pay around 3K off s:( :( s:(
Was the vehicle repaired: Not yet. Its still in the garage with its engine out and stripped down (this cost £600 I cand afford for them to repair it).
If yes, please detail how, and where: N/A
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: N/A
Would you recommend their service to other members:
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed:
* Rebored:
* Oversized pistons:
* New ring:
* Little ends:
* Crank grind:
* Big Ends:
* Oil Seals:
Was the main CAT replaced:
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement:
Date vehicle purchased: 2001
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): Private grey import (Belgium)
Year of vehicle registration: 2001
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): Approx once/month
Did you notice high oil consumption: No oil consumption prior to failure (no difference on dipstick between services)
Date of Failure: July 2004
Mileage at time of failure: Approx 50k
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: No
If yes, please detail the modifications:
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): Sudden - fine in the morning on way to work. Started and idled before setting off in evening for 2-3 minute (whilst on phone) - huge knocking as I went to pull away.
Was the failure reported to Toyota: Yes
If yes, please detail their response: F*'d me off, told me I'd forgetten to put oil in it.
Was the vehicle repaired: Yes
If yes, please detail how, and where: Replacement engine.
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: Rochdale autos - supply and fit.
Would you recommend their service to other members: Supply yes, fit no.
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed:
* Rebored:
* Oversized pistons:
* New ring:
* Little ends:
* Crank grind:
* Big Ends:
* Oil Seals:
Was the main CAT replaced: No
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement: 25k non turbo, 6k turbo
Date vehicle purchased: aug 2005 i think
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): ebay auction s:) :) s:)
Year of vehicle registration: W reg
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): Often because it drank alot
Did you notice high oil consumption: yes
Date of Failure: 6 months after i think
Mileage at time of failure: 65,000
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: no
If yes, please detail the modifications:
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): sounds like a diesel and loud ticking
Was the failure reported to Toyota: yes
If yes, please detail their response: out of warranty and they didnt care
Was the vehicle repaired: yes
If yes, please detail how, and where: bought new engine from local company which had the same problem. paid £500 to put engine in until it made the ticking noise. paid another £500 to fit at local garage and a new engine sourced from a 2003 car with low mileage £900
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: some jap parts company North west.
Would you recommend their service to other members:yes
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed:na
* Rebored:
* Oversized pistons:
* New ring:
* Little ends:
* Crank grind:
* Big Ends:
* Oil Seals:
Was the main CAT replaced: no
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement: sold 6 months after replacement
Where from : Private Sale
Year of vehicle registration: 1999
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): weekend before failure due to low oil
Did you notice high oil consumption: Not initially (I believe consumption rate suddenly increased, as I saw it in the rear view!)
Date of Failure: March 2010
Mileage at time of failure: Less Than 50k (reads 50k, but partially clocked up in kilometers)
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: No
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): Ran fine, then one journey with smoke out rear, then big ends gone due to low oil (bugger).
Was the failure reported to Toyota: No
Was the vehicle repaired: Recon Engine Swapped In
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: Recon engine supplied by JapEngines.co.uk, fitted myself
Would you recommend their service to other members: Engine has been in for around 500 miles [UPDATE - Now nearer to 5000 miles with no issues]
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed:
* Rebored: Suspect Not
* Oversized pistons: Suspect Not
* New rings: Yes
* Little ends: Suspect Not
* Crank grind: New crank suposebly
* Big Ends: Yes
* Oil Seals: Yes
+ Valve Stem Seals, Head Gasket, and Oil Pump
Was the main CAT replaced: No
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement: 500ish (90 miles bedding in rings with 15W-40 Mineral oil; rest with 5W-30 Mobil 1)
[UPDATE - Now nearer to 5000 miles with no issues]
[UPDATE - Now well over 10000 miles with no issues, and not a single drop of oil loss]
It seems the piston rings of the cylinder nearest the crank pulley was the source of the oil loss, and the precat on that side of the manifold had just started to break down.
After analysing this particular block I'm inclined to believe that the cause was: marginal piston ring failings, causing blow by oil, causing the pre-cats to breakdown, potentially exascerbating the situation, rather than: pre-cats breaking down for some other reason, and causing the initial piston ring failings, etc... (just my 2 cents on the chicken and egg debate of the 1ZZ-FE's precats!)
I will be using engine flush occasionally at future oil changes in case the pistons in the recon block are the old design.
This is an attempt to reduce any sludge build up which could reduce oil flow in this critical area, and in my opinion could have caused the initial piston ring failing... And so far I'm also checking the oil more often that anyone would believe is possible!
Date vehicle purchased: July 2002
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): Volvo dealership
Year of vehicle registration: 2000
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): Couple of times a month, probably.
Did you notice high oil consumption: Yes
Date of Failure: 2004 ish?
Mileage at time of failure: 43k
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: Yes
If yes, please detail the modifications: TTE exhaust and Unichip
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): Sudden loss of power whilst sliding sideways at North Weald air field. White powder coming out of the exhaust when reving. loss of power.
Was the failure reported to Toyota: Yes, but only as loss of power.
If yes, please detail their response: take it in to see as soon as possible. quote from mechanic. We looked in the precat chambers and only found the right hand side one.
Was the vehicle repaired: Yes
If yes, please detail how, and where: Under warranty by Toyota Ashford and Canterbury. New short block, manifold, main cat. Although I did need to mess around getting service history out of Toyota GB as I bought the car at 13,000 miles and didn't have the service book.
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it:
Would you recommend their service to other members: Bit of a faf and they said if it didn't get approved by Toyota GB I'd have to stump up for the strip down of the engine for diagnosis (of oval bores) and then pay for it to be fixed and or put back together.
Was the main CAT replaced: Yes
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement:70k ish. 20k of which has been turbo'd
Date vehicle purchased: 3rd November 2009.... 44 000 km's on clock, brand new in my mind.
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): Independent dealer
Year of vehicle registration: 2001
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): At least once a week
Did you notice high oil consumption: Yes, about 1 liter/1000km's
Date of Failure: End Oct 2010
Mileage at time of failure: 71 000 km's.
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: TRD twin exhaust and chip (no evidence of chip but was told about it on purchase)
If yes, please detail the modifications: Ditto
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): It was a sudden failure...belting along a flat straight back from work....doing about 140 km/hr...on deceleration I heard a difference in the exhaust tone...drove straight to MRT - Burnt exhaust valve - piece of pre-cat lodged itself under the valve.
Was the failure reported to Toyota: Yes
If yes, please detail their response: Mentioned they had done a similar job before.
Was the vehicle repaired: Yes
If yes, please detail how, and where: By said Toyota dealer (voted the best in the country for the 3rd time) replaced valves, big and small ends, new rings - I thought I may as well as the motor was using oil.
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: NA
Would you recommend their service to other members: Yes.
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed:
* Rebored: No
* Oversized pistons: No
* New ring: Yes
* Little ends: Yes
* Crank grind: No
* Big Ends: Yes
* Oil Seals: Yes + Gaskets
Was the main CAT replaced: No, but I gutted the pre-cats at the same time as the engine rebuild.
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement: about 400 km's. A definite difference in power (new rings) and a better sound (no pre-cats)
My problem now is a high idle when she is hot. Idling at 1500rpm. Any ideas?
Update - Have done almost 30 000 km's since rebuild - All idling problems have always been related to 02 sensor failure - have gone the resistor route - car running like a dream - now using 1 liter oil per 5000km, which I believe is normal for the 1zz engine.
Date vehicle purchased:April 2011
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction):Private
Year of vehicle registration:2000 x plate
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here):Weekly
Did you notice high oil consumption:No, i checked oil several times a week, after reading up on here there was issues. On last check oil vanished in space of 12 miles
Date of Failure:May 2011
Mileage at time of failure:50k
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure:no
If yes, please detail the modifications:
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc):Came off a roundabout, and car juddered, and started to knock, limped to work, and all oil was gone, this was compounded with a battery failure, so expected the worse, AA were not exactly helpful, but towed to local garge, who diagnosed engine failure, got car to toyota specialist, they diagnosed possible ovalbore. After collecting car, garage said that half the precats were missing
Was the failure reported to Toyota:no
If yes, please detail their response:
Was the vehicle repaired:yep
If yes, please detail how, and where: garage would not supply engine, so sourced myself, new engine fitted
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it:new engine sourced from http://www.trents.co.uk £800 '05 celica 1.8vvti engine 34k on clock, fitted by http://www.roysmotorcompany.co.uk/ £1300, which included, removing precats, service, MOT, all done in 3 days, garage did say they had to change a few thing due to the engine coming from Celica. But they said these were simple jobs
Would you recommend their service to other members:Both come highly recommened, although i have only done 50 miles will update as and when
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed:
* Rebored:
* Oversized pistons:
* New ring:
* Little ends:
* Crank grind:
* Big Ends:
* Oil Seals:
Was the main CAT replaced:no
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement:50miles
Both my son and myself have MR2's. His is a 2001 with 90,000 mine is a 2000 with 95,000.
Mine has been burning oil at the rate of 300 miles per ltr since I bought it a year ago.
The pre-cats have been removed and the oil consuption seems stable.
His did not have the pre-cats removed and both were intact 3 months ago when I checked them.
It was using about a litre of oil per 1500 miles before it failed suddenly last week.
Symptoms were a sudden reduction in power and blue smoke between gear changes.
He did get home and still had about 2 litres of oil left.
When the engine was pulled out the pre-cat on the driver side was completely missing (emptied it out of the main cat).
Not stripped the engine yet, but plan is to rebuild it and put it in mine.
Date vehicle purchased: 2009
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): Independent dealer
Year of vehicle registration: 2001
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): Weekly
Did you notice high oil consumption: No
Date of Failure: July 2011
Mileage at time of failure: 90,000
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: No
If yes, please detail the modifications:
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): Sudden
Was the failure reported to Toyota: No
If yes, please detail their response:
Was the vehicle repaired: Yes
If yes, please detail how, and where: Replaced engine with one from a 2003 model
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: MattPerformance
Would you recommend their service to other members: Yes without doubt.
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed:
* Rebored:
* Oversized pistons:
* New ring:
* Little ends:
* Crank grind:
* Big Ends:
* Oil Seals:
Was the main CAT replaced: Yes
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement 50 so far s:) :) s:)
Now done 5000 miles and used just over half a litre of oil and is still perfectly clean oil.
Oil change at 6000 will be done.
Date vehicle purchased: March 2011
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): Private
Year of vehicle registration: 2003
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): I checked it every day - previous owner probably only when it started to overheat
Did you notice high oil consumption: YES!!! about 1 litre every 100 miles - NOTE: THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PRE-CATS (post 2003 and they were all intact)!!!! Lack of maintenance and poor piston ring and engine design did mine in (all gummed up)
Date of Failure: Was there when I bought it
Mileage at time of failure: 72,000
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: No
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): Burning loads of oil and lambda sensor failure otherwise drove well
Was the failure reported to Toyota: No
Was the vehicle repaired: Yes
If yes, please detail how, and where: By me replacement engine sourced (brilliant!!!) and fitted
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: Club member, fitted by me
Would you recommend their service to other members: lol
Was the main CAT replaced: Yes plus the manifold - thought of de catting but for £180 went for a new one without precats
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement: 3,000 perfect miles car not lost a single drop of oil!!!!
Date vehicle purchased: 02/2011
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): Private
Year of vehicle registration: 2002
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): every 500 miles
Did you notice high oil consumption: No, it was remarkably good and hardly moved
Date of Failure: 05/08/11
Mileage at time of failure: 81800
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: No
If yes, please detail the modifications:
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): Trackday, had checked oil level in the morning and all fine, track I knew so went out and at about 20 minutes exiting a bend putting foot down noticed loss of power and felt rough, lifted off and within secons it was banging, metal on metal sound, limped to the pits, knew it had spun/ destryed a bearing, checked oil level, nothing in it. Didn't notice any smoke or any other warning, temperature good etc
Was the failure reported to Toyota: No
If yes, please detail their response: n/a
Was the vehicle repaired: yes
If yes, please detail how, and where: b]2ZZGE conversion by Rogue Motorsport, Power FC, custom exhaust, Elise Parts baffled sump etc[/b]
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: ebay 2ZZ GE
Would you recommend their service to other members: Rogue - be firm with what you want done and yes. I thought they knew more than they did and took ages and cost a lot getting it sorted
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed:
* Rebored:
* Oversized pistons:
* New ring:
* Little ends:
* Crank grind:
* Big Ends:
* Oil Seals:
Was the main CAT replaced: yes
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement:about 10 trackdays
Whatever you do, fit yourself a Moroso oil pan if you do a lot of track days - they are fitted with anti surge baffles, I seem to remember long fast right handers (I think) & sticky tyres, s:flame: :flame: s:flame: s:scared: :scared: s:scared: can cause the oil to to move away from the oil pick up pipe which can lead to bearing failure.
Rob
Quote from: "FGrob"Whatever you do, fit yourself a Moroso oil pan if you do a lot of track days - they are fitted with anti surge baffles, I seem to remember long fast right handers (I think) & sticky tyres, s:flame: :flame: s:flame: s:scared: :scared: s:scared: can cause the oil to to move away from the oil pick up pipe which can lead to bearing failure.
Rob
Yep not the first,there is a video of a US members engine blowing on track somewhere on this site too: l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25528&p=314513&hilit=1zz+failure+track#p314513 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25528&p=314513&hilit=1zz+failure+track#p314513) l
Quote from: "life of bryan"Quote from: "FGrob"Whatever you do, fit yourself a Moroso oil pan if you do a lot of track days - they are fitted with anti surge baffles, I seem to remember long fast right handers (I think) & sticky tyres, s:flame: :flame: s:flame: s:scared: :scared: s:scared: can cause the oil to to move away from the oil pick up pipe which can lead to bearing failure.
Rob
Yep not the first,there is a video of a US members engine blowing on track somewhere on this site too: l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25528&p=314513&hilit=1zz+failure+track#p314513 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25528&p=314513&hilit=1zz+failure+track#p314513) l
Rowlands post describes exactly the same events of my failure, 20mins track, clack, clack, clack s:-( :-( s:-(
Tadlad, I've noticed in this list yours is the only 2003, is it a late Reg 2002 (Pre facelift)?
Looking at dropping a post '03 into my Pre Facelift, though if you had oval bore on one I'm thinking is there much point...
Cheers
My post 2003 was burning massive amounts of oil - I don't buy the CAT failure thing. Anyway once the engine was out and stripped down it is clear it had previously had a full rebuild - sealant everywhere and scored markings (saying outside on pulleys etc). The engine that went in was a pre 2003 but was from an MRS. I have fitted a Moroso sump so should overcome the lack of oil coolant to filter. Someone would have probably spent a lot of money on a shoddy rebuild so it does underline the need to have a professional do a rebuild (if you don't do it yourself). Anyway 3000 miles now and going strong. I would not worry too much post or pre but make sure it is low miles and has been looked after.
Another one bites the dust - I eventually admitted defeat and passed it on to d!ck2ski to recycle the bits that do work.
Bit of a cautionary tale though - your local Toyota "specialist" may well be nothing like it.
I initially took the car to (TLS in Peacehaven, Sussex - who claim to be an independent Toyota & Lexus specialist) with a lack of power. Suspecting pre-cat failure, I suggested this to them as a first port of call "can you look at that FIRST, if the pre-cats are gone it'll be a new engine", they called saying it wasn't the case, then charged me for some £400 of other engine work, over the space of a week. Eventually they called and said "the pre-cats have gone - we'll need to do another £2000 of work to get it back on the road". They'd completely ignored my initial suggestion and not bothered to check the pre-cats, and had never heard of any of the common problems with MR2's (specialist my bottom!).
At that point, I took the car back (and I admit, used some seriously harsh language with them). Never Ever use TLS for anything - they will rob you blind, and don't know d!ck about diagnosing or fixing MR2's.
I then ran it until it wouldn't move at all, planned to fix it with an engine swap - but when I couldn't source an engine replacement at the right time (and local garages wanted £1000 to fit one), I flogged the dead motor to Richard (nice bloke - came all the way from Warrington to Brighton to pick it up). Then bought an RX8 instead. Life goes on.
Date vehicle purchased: September 2008
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): Independent Dealer
Year of vehicle registration:2001
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here):Weekly
Did you notice high oil consumption:No
Date of Failure:Summer 2011
Mileage at time of failure:<80K (probably - the battery was flat when Richard towed it away, so I couldn't check)
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure:No
If yes, please detail the modifications:
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc):Lack of power, checked oil - fine, increased lack of power (following day), check oil - dropped a lot. Topped up. By the next day, power down so much that it wouldn't go up hill.
Was the failure reported to Toyota:No
If yes, please detail their response:
Was the vehicle repaired: Attempted. Failed.
If yes, please detail how, and where: Repair attempted by independent Toyota specialists (TLS in Peacehaven)
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it:
Would you recommend their service to other members: Under No Circumstances - Do NOT use TLS ever.
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed:
* Rebored:
* Oversized pistons:
* New ring:
* Little ends:
* Crank grind:
* Big Ends:
* Oil Seals:
Was the main CAT replaced:
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement:
Date vehicle purchased: May 09
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): Private sale
Year of vehicle registration: 2000
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): Approx every 4 weeks
Did you notice high oil consumption: Nope
Date of Failure: Early April 2012
Mileage at time of failure: 36000
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: No
If yes, please detail the modifications:
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): Sudden rattle under load after oil change, old oil from prev owner was as thick as tar, methinks hiding noise!
Was the failure reported to Toyota: No
If yes, please detail their response:
Was the vehicle repaired: Yes
If yes, please detail how, and where: Matt off of Mattperformance
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it:
Would you recommend their service to other members: Definately
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed:
* Rebored:
* Oversized pistons:
* New ring: Y
* Little ends:
* Crank grind: Y
* Big Ends: Y
* Oil Seals: Y
Was the main CAT replaced: N
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement: Only 250 as of yet, all seems ok though
Date vehicle purchased: May 2012
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): Private
Year of vehicle registration: 2000
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): Every 2 weeks
Did you notice high oil consumption: Yes
Date of Failure: Nov 2012
Mileage at time of failure: 95k
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: No
If yes, please detail the modifications:
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): progressive
Was the failure reported to Toyota: No
If yes, please detail their response:
Was the vehicle repaired: Yes
If yes, please detail how, and where: By myself
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: Toyota Europe short engine (CTP), refreshed cyliner head (A&M (Stroud) Ltd), removal, fitting etc. Moi
Would you recommend their service to other members:
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed: Block has latest design of pistons with revised oil flow and piston rings.
* Rebored:
* Oversized pistons:
* New ring:
* Little ends:
* Crank grind:
* Big Ends:
* Oil Seals:
Was the main CAT replaced: No
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement: Finishing off install at the moment
Quote from: "fretlessfender"Was the main CAT replaced: No
Were the precats still intact ( if not the remnants will be in the main cat which will lead to failure again )
Yes - no signs of deteoriation in the pre cats and no debris in the main cat.
Date vehicle purchased:17/2/2013
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction):private
Year of vehicle registration:2001
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here):weekly
Did you notice high oil consumption:started tapping a week later after a top up
Date of Failure:
Mileage at time of failure:67000
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure:none
If yes, please detail the modifications:
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc):progressive
Was the failure reported to Toyota:Yes
If yes, please detail their response:did not care and wanted £2200 to fix
Was the vehicle repaired:29/3/13
If yes, please detail how, and where: replacement engine out of a toyota avensis
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it:eBay and by myself and to friends
Would you recommend their service to other members:of course haha
Was the main CAT replaced:Yes and the pre cat with a s/s manifold
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement:50
Date vehicle purchased:04/08/2006
Where from: ford / skoda dealership
Year of vehicle registration:2001
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): monthly
Did you notice high oil consumption: one day started it up, lots of black smoke under load, 1 litre a week from then on
Date of Failure: 10/03/2008
Mileage at time of failure:63, 400
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: only cosmetic mods
Was the failure reported to Toyota:Yes
If yes, please detail their response: was just out of its 7 year good will cover so were not interested. £3000 to replace
Was the vehicle repaired: yes
If yes, please detail how, and where: new forged short block fitted, head uprated and turbo conversion carried out
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: sourced from mwr and fitted by frd Middlesbrough
Would you recommend their service to other members: very much so
Was the main CAT replaced: removed altogether
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement: 3500
Date vehicle purchased: 11/05/2013
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): Independent Dealer
Year of vehicle registration: 2000
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): Daily
Did you notice high oil consumption: YES Approx. 200miles per litre of oil.
Date of Failure: NOT YET
Mileage at time of failure: N/A
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: No
If yes, please detail the modifications: N/A
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): N/A
Was the failure reported to Toyota: N/A
If yes, please detail their response: N/A
Was the vehicle repaired: N/A
If yes, please detail how, and where: N/A
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: N/A
Would you recommend their service to other members: N/A
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed:
So far, replaced filthy air filter, PCV Valve, MAF, 4x Spark Plugs, De-Catted (01/06/2013.) Used over 7litres of oil in 1500miles. I PURCHASED A LEMON!!!!!!!!!!!!
I see that a lot of these, if not nearly all are pre facelift. Many people had trouble with post facelift models? Mine is 2004
Yesterday was a very dark day, when I had to nurse my ailing '2 home in clouds of acrid smoke... s:( :( s:(
Date vehicle purchased: 04/07/2014
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): Independent dealer
Year of vehicle registration: 2000
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): Weekly/Fortnightly - depending upon usage
Did you notice high oil consumption: Yes - 1-2 litres per month
Date of Failure: 06/04/2014
Mileage at time of failure: 82000
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: No
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc):
The car has been using plenty of oil since I bought it, but I have always kept up to it - religiously topping it up whenever the level started to dip towards the lower-end of the gauge. I last topped up the oil 10 days ago, and I've travelled no further than 150 miles in that time, but yesterday I ran the car out on a short journey, and I felt a sudden, repetitive drop in power, (I assume this is a loss of compression?), coupled with plumes of smoke from the exhaust.
By the time I arrived home 5 mins later, there was barely any oil left in the car. I am fairly confident this is not HGF, as the water and oil are not contaminated, the temperature gauge remained in the nominal range, and it seems to be smoke, not steam, coming from the exhaust. The engine will start up without hesitation, but the idle is VERY lumpy and the exhaust stinks.
Before yesterday, the car was running absolutely fine - plenty of grunt and no hint of a problem, except for the oil usage.
Was the failure reported to Toyota: Not much point for a 15 year old car.
If yes, please detail their response: N/A
Was the vehicle repaired: I spent my last £200 getting it through its MOT last week s:flame: :flame: s:flame: . I have nothing left to chuck at it, so it's going on eBay as-is.
If yes, please detail how, and where: N/A
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: N/A
Would you recommend their service to other members: N/A
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed: N/A
Was the main CAT replaced: N/A
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement: N/A
Quote from: "Swanseamr2"I see that a lot of these, if not nearly all are pre facelift. Many people had trouble with post facelift models? Mine is 2004
Think it can potentially happen to any mk3 Mr2. Mine was a facelift 2003 model and it used loads of oil (1/2 litre every 150 miles). Thankfully i managed to return car to dealer.
I have just recently purchased a MR2 ( 2002 plate ) with 67000 miles on the clock and so far done 4000 miles. On one or two occassions noticed on de accelerating down a steep hill and then accelerating at the bottom a big cloud of blue smoke comes from the exhaust.
It is using oil and I have been putting in maybe half a litre every 250 to 350 miles.
Doe this problem mean I am about to get a big engine failure or just get the Pre-cats taken out.
Can anyone suggest a garage in the Blackpool area who could give me advice.
Any thoughts will be appreciated.
.
There is a thread somewhere that discusses this exact issue (I think). Iirc, it has more to do with baffles in the oil sump...
Might be worth a search?
So as the last comment was a few years ago, let me share my very recent experience.
Date vehicle purchased: Early 2019
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): Private
Year of vehicle registration: 2004
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): Once when checking the car on purchase. Oil showed about half way on dipstick. Checked few hundred miles later, oil was holding. Checked 3000 miles later when checking pre-cats, dipstick bone dry.
Did you notice high oil consumption: Yes
Date of Failure: First noticed 3000 miles after purchase of car, alongside checking for pre-cat condition through 02 sensor holes.
Mileage at time of failure: 97000
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure:No
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): One pre-cat had chunk missing. Ingested by engine. Oil consumption. Both of these could have been historic issues, not sure as I only had the car for few thousand miles.
Was the failure reported to Toyota: No
Was the vehicle repaired: pre-cats replaced with cheap aftermarket manifold with no pre-cats.
If yes, please detail how, and where: Rogue Motorsport. Manifold cost 120 pounds, plus Labor 2.5 hours. Oil and filter change also at same time.
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: No
Would you recommend their service to other members: Yes, labor rates are expensive but fine job was done.
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed: No
Was the main CAT replaced: No
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement: 1500 miles. No worries about pre-cat disentegration now, but oil consumption is around 1L/1500miles. This is manageable as the oil is quite cheap for this car.
Moral of the story and hopefully an end to discussions regarding these failures and facelift cars.
FACELIFT CARS STILL GET BROKEN PRE-CATS!
Quote from: B_Tank88 on October 4, 2019, 11:32So as the last comment was a few years ago, let me share my very recent experience.
Date vehicle purchased: Early 2019
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): Private
Year of vehicle registration: 2004
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): Once when checking the car on purchase. Oil showed about half way on dipstick. Checked few hundred miles later, oil was holding. Checked 3000 miles later when checking pre-cats, dipstick bone dry.
Did you notice high oil consumption: Yes
Date of Failure: First noticed 3000 miles after purchase of car, alongside checking for pre-cat condition through 02 sensor holes.
Mileage at time of failure: 97000
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure:No
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): One pre-cat had chunk missing. Ingested by engine. Oil consumption. Both of these could have been historic issues, not sure as I only had the car for few thousand miles.
Was the failure reported to Toyota: No
Was the vehicle repaired: pre-cats replaced with cheap aftermarket manifold with no pre-cats.
If yes, please detail how, and where: Rogue Motorsport. Manifold cost 120 pounds, plus Labor 2.5 hours. Oil and filter change also at same time.
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: No
Would you recommend their service to other members: Yes, labor rates are expensive but fine job was done.
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed: No
Was the main CAT replaced: No
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement: 1500 miles. No worries about pre-cat disentegration now, but oil consumption is around 1L/1500miles. This is manageable as the oil is quite cheap for this car.
Moral of the story and hopefully an end to discussions regarding these failures and facelift cars.
FACELIFT CARS STILL GET BROKEN PRE-CATS!
Indeed they do. And stuck oil control rings, which cause pre-cat failure.
Going from memory here. But if you have the owners manual, you may find 1l per 600m is deemed in spec. So you are well in.
Date vehicle purchased: January 2020
Where from (Franchised Toyota Dealer, independent dealer, private, auction): Private
Year of vehicle registration: 2003
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): Once when checking the car on purchase. As purchased was at Full level on stick on 300 mile trip home.
Did you notice high oil consumption: No
Date of Failure: Prior to purchase unknown.
Mileage at time of failure: Unknown
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: No
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): Strange swirling sound at high speed ( Pre Cat pieces whirling around in main Catalytic Converter?). View through O2 ports on Precats showed left had a small divot of 2mm round by .5mm approx. deep. Grid looked aligned. No through holes in the grid.
The right pre cat was intact.
Removal of manifold and view through flange revealed that the left cat was missing 2/3rds of the matrix grid and had melted grid blobs all the way up to the top plane that looked intact except for the divot seen from O2 port.
The right pre cat was intact.
History of car had no mention of engine trouble but also found that the coolant tank interior was melted.
Removed main cat and emptied out the cat material that went down stream from the left cat. This material was melted like stones with matrix bits with solid closed voids. Will inspect with endoscope for damage to the main cat since the broken matrix was free to swirl and damage it.
Was the failure reported to Toyota: No
Was the vehicle repaired: pre-cat matrix and matting removed from exhaust manifold. Awaiting diagnosis of main cat.
If yes, please detail how, and where: Pending, self maintained.
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: NA
Would you recommend their service to other members: Yes but I'm not available for hire.
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed: NA
Was the main CAT replaced: Pending inspection
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement: NA
Date vehicle purchased: MID 2019
Where from: Private but knew it was an oil burner when purchased as i already had a spare engine
Year of vehicle registration: 2001
How often had you checked your oil level (please be honest here): Once a week, it was a burner and only a weekend toy for a friend, I looked after the car for her
Did you notice high oil consumption: Yes
Date of Failure: 06/01/2020
Mileage at time of failure: 79000
Was the vehicle modified at the time of failure: Yes Toyo Manifold fitted
Details of failure (symptoms, progressive or sudden, damaged components etc): Purchased the car as an oil burner, someone got it back on the road and MOt'd it, was taken off road before due to burning oil. As she does not do many mines it didn't really matter. Lasted 9 months burning through oil (i Kept topping it up every5-600 miles) did not smoke at all.. then one day way to work it spun a bearing.. Still drove to work and drove home again (good ol toyotas)
Was the failure reported to Toyota: No
Was the vehicle repaired: Yep.. Fitted a face lift engine out of my 05 which is now a 2zz.
If a new/reconditioned engine was installed, please list where the engine was sourced and who fitted it: I went over the engine before fitting, came from my car and was driving perfect before
Would you recommend their service to other members: I'm far to busy :)
If the engine was reconditioned, what specifically was changed: No
Was the main CAT replaced: No
How many trouble-free miles have you done since replacement:200 so far.. but engine was good before i put it in