I am picking it up on Saturday and it cost me £850 with all ancillaries. I haven't got a clue who I am going to get to fit it but I may have a go myself as I have access to some engine lifts. It took me ages scowering the internet and magazines and I can't believe I found one so cheap in the end. It's about a third of the price of a turbo!
So much for my 180 NA project. I may start it up again on kerries 2' if we don't go turbo. There maybe some goodies up for sale soon.
Adam
I'd keep hold of most of yor goodies, I seem to remember that the2zz exhaust ports are only marginally different. Gettign the PPE header to mate up shouldn't be that big a job.
fancy a hand?
Quote from: "markiii"fancy a hand?
Ohh Yes s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
If I were closer I would offer to spectate s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Okay, thanks to Marks help I have just realised that I have hit a serious problem with my plan.
Does anyone know of the part number for the SMT ECU used in the US spec Celica?
Thanks Adam
you'll need the engine ECU for teh SMT Celica as well.
Quote from: "Jap GT300"Okay, thanks to Marks help I have just realised that I have hit a serious problem with my plan.
Does anyone know of the part number for the SMT ECU used in the US spec Celica?
Thanks Adam
IIRC the SMT in the Celica was 6 speed right from the start, so you are going to have a problem with that. Also the engine ECU is specific to the SMT version too, so you will also need that....... $ $ $ $ $ $
Do you not have a manual '2 that you can convert?
good point steve, not sure if teh US celica's were 6 speed though.
Here is something that Mark had mentioned
QuoteA full manual swop?
Possible though you'd need the gearbox from the celica and a new shaft(or a wrecked -3 roadster and no new shaft.) pedalbox. shifter, cables e.t.c. There are more issues here than just the engine swap. Possible though a long job.
If I didn't go this route the only other option would be to take the 1zz from kerries manual 2' mount this unit in my 2' and then let her have the 2zz.
hmmm, i seem to be losing out here, and I just turned down a salvage MR-S (manual) for £600. s:( :( s:(
don't think the Celica has smt, just an auto - check on the celica-club
yep, after a log trawl it comes with ECT rather than SMT which doesn't help really.
Mark,
Here are the only photos I have of the SMT being stripped. It doesn't take long to remove everything!
(http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/SMTout.jpg)
(http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/SMTmissing.jpg)
(http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/SMTstrip.jpg)
Thanks Adam
not really clear from the pics, can you remember if the 2 shifter cables are satill used running front to back.?
The shifter cage looks like it would bolt right up (may as well buythe TRD one if yor going to do it) but I'm concerned about the cables. Vould be fun getting them in if the smt doesn't use them.
I remember from when we stripped it that it is a full drive by wire system. There were no cables in sight.
I'm going to pick up the 2ZZ in an hour!
Adam
ps wouldn't the SMT buttons be good for Nitrous afterwards s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
you've already blown one engine s:P :P s:P
ok, so we need shift cage. shift boot. cables, any pics of the tranny casing so we can see how the SMt connects to teh box? I assume it;'s teh same bellhousing?
Anybody?
Martin you have the SMT BGB don't you? care to take a look fo us?
Quote from: "markiii"you've already blown one engine s:P :P s:P
ok, so we need shift cage. shift boot. cables, any pics of the tranny casing so we can see how the SMt connects to the box? I assume it;'s the same bellhousing?
Anybody?
Martin you have the SMT BGB don't you? care to take a look fo us?
The SMT is all hydraulic - just a series of pistons connected to the pivot points that the cables would have connected to. The SMT selector is fly-by-wire (has to be cause otherwise the steering wheel buttons wouldn't work!)
a good point Mr Jeffrey
so I suppose we need to add clutch pedal to the above list, do you know at what point that becomes different?
Mark, Steve
I made a similar post on SC and they have come up with a couple of therioes on using a Celica ECU. I can't make out what they're saying but it might mean something to you.
m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9791 (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9791) m
Thanks Adam
Quote from: "Jap GT300"Mark, Steve
I made a similar post on SC and they have come up with a couple of therioes on using a Celica ECU. I can't make out what they're saying but it might mean something to you.
m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9791 (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9791) m
Thanks Adam
Adam,
There is a misconception that the SMT is a 'drive by wire' setup. Certainly on my first SMT car, the throttle pedal was still linked to the throttle body by a cable - even with the battery disconnected, the throttle butterfly opened in response to the pedal. Not sure on the new one cause I haven't looked yet.
I really think that this project is a non-starter, but would love to be proved wrong.
Steve
I've taken in what you have said. A member on SC has posted this:
QuoteThis would be the complete ecu from the celica...not a piggy back
The 2003 and up model Celica GTS's are drive by wire.
Assuming that this runs the same system as you have stated above and that it is a 5 speed. What do you think the possibility of transferring this ECU is?
Thanks Adam
BTW have you seen Audis new DMG system can change gear in 0.02 secs
Adam,
Having read teh SC threads. I see where they are coming from, and although I'm not going to say it definately won't work, it might. (but I doubt it)
It depends on what your after. If you have the cash to find out and a serious desire to stay SMT then it could be worth exploring.
For my money you've got far more chance of making this work by converting to a manual. And it's likely to be cheaper.
It's going to be more involved than this, but not much.
1. Remove SMT centre console section and replace with manual 5 speed cage and selector cables
2. Install clutch pedal.
4. Connect clutch pedal to clutch mechanism, not sure exactly what teh difference are but if Martin can post teh relvant pages from the SMT BGB we can compare them to the manual in book.
At this point engine off, we should have a gearbox that works like a manual.
5. Remove all the hydraulics associated with teh SMT and its ECU.
6. I honestly have no idea whether the main engine ECU can cope without the SMT talking to it, I'd be interested to know, but since you'll be using teh 2zz ECU anyway it's not relevant in this instance.
7. Now ALL s:( :( s:( we have to contend with is the actual 2zz swap, but at least we know a couple of people who've done it.
8. decide if the 2zz power spike is ok in the roadster if not, you'll need a PFC or equivelant.
As an aside did you get teh box with the 2zz? Littlerocket has raised teh issue that the 2zz is far better suited to the 6 speed. So if we're doing this we may as well go the whole hog.
Quote from: "markiii"6. I honestly have no idea whether the main engine ECU can cope without the SMT talking to it, I'd be interested to know, but since you'll be using the 2zz ECU anyway it's not relevant in this instance.
The engine ECU will not allow you to turn the engine over unless it gets a signal from the SMT ECU to say that the gearbox is in neutral and the clutch is fully disengaged.
This won't be a problem because you are planning to put the 2ZZ ECU in, but I very much doubt that the wiring loom will be right, as the 2ZZ has more control gear for the VVTL, so there will be additional connections. This alone will account for most of the cost involved when doing the 2ZZ swap.
I would suggest you speak directly to one of the SC guys who has done the swap in a manual car, then get yourself a manual car to actually do the work on.
2 issues,
manual swap and 2zz swap.
if you want teh 6 speed theres bugger all difference.
If you stay with teh 5 speed, it's still 2 jobs.
we know the 2zz can be fitted (granted there are wiring issues to overcome but they have been overcome)
and the box swap.
as longs as you prove that you can engage the gears while stationary (engine off) then you just did the box.
it doesn't have to be that hard.
I didn't get the box with the engine, but I have just asked to purchase that as well. Couldn't get the engine in the Disco so i am getting it delivered. I'll see if they can send it all at once.
It would make sense that we should go 6 speed.
IMO just converto to manual and be done with it. With the SMT you are opening a whole new can of worms.
The car may not even start if the SMT cannot comunicate with the engine ECU to signal that the clutch off.
Also the Celica ECU for the manual does not have any SMT programming and the ECU for the celica sportshift whcih is a 4 speed will not work. So it will basically not work if you do not sort out the electronics which is a big problem IMO.
One other thing. With the 2ZZ and the stock cams you will have to live with the power spike. There is no way to take the spike out unless you reduce power at the top end a lot. Not even with the Power FC.
The hi cams stop making power below 6000rpm. Toyota made the changeover absolutely perfect. The cams are not coupled well unfortunately.
There seem to be a lot of guys doing the 2ZZ swap now in the US. I predict the inexperienced might seriously hurt themselves with this engine. The car becomes much faster with a few bolt ons and if it is not set up well suspension wise, once you hit the cam change mid corner you could be in serious trouble especially on non perfect roads.
But hey it is much faster s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
A full on manual conversion it is then. If I get a rolling manual chassiss soon I may use that instead but at present I think I will go for full manual conversion.
The gearbox I have been offered is a 2 ZZ, 4 speed manual for £150. Will it be of any use. I will have 2 be on the look out for the other parts.
Will I need the 2' or the Celica shifter cage and cables? Also will it matter if I get the celica clutch pedal and ancillaries?
Thanks Adam
ps Mark how big is your garage s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "Jap GT300"4 speed manual
Huh? s:? :? s:?
Adam,
I.m not sure how to read that 4 speed statement.
In teh Uk I though all Celicas were 6 speed.
regardless manual 5 or 6 speed should work.
The cage I think will fit, the cables you'll need to get from teh roadster as the celica doesn't use cables at all let alone the right length.
clutch pedal? I'd e surprised b ut if it has a part number we can check easily enough.
Cin,
Curious ref your comment about the change point you say toyota got it right but the cams aren't coupled well?
can you clarify?
Adam.
Just get a 6speed. Get the MR2 cables and clutch and shifter cage(the celica shifter cage should be the same but mounted the other way IIRC) and get a 6 speed MR2 shifter shaft(goes in the trann) or machine one out of the celica one.
You will probably also need the switch that is used to disable the starter if the clutch pedal is not depressed.
Re: The cams. The cam are perfectly timed from Toyota already. The Switch point is the best it can be. If you put it any lower even if you tune the VVT you have a huge power drop. Unfortunatley the torque curves for the hi and low cams cut at about 6200rpm so 6000rpm is about perfect for the changeover. Anylower and you loose power.
Monkeywrenchracing had a dyno run pic with the low cam only and the hi cam only and you could see where they meet. It is on their site.
The only way to take out the spike is by changing cams and using a more agressive low cam but unfortunately there are no cams available yet.
thanks CIN
Adam I'd just get the TRD short shifter if you need to buy the cage assembly anyway.
Quote2 ZZ, 4 speed manual for £150
Sorry, I meant auto
Quote from: "cin"You will probably also need the switch that is used to disable the starter if the clutch pedal is not depressed.
Why will I need this?
Quoteget a 6 speed MR2 shifter shaft(goes in the trann) or machine one out of the celica one.
Which part are you referring to as the shifter shaft?
Thanks Cin
The switch you need it because the ECU needs confirmation that the clutch is depressed before you can start the car. On my JSPEC if you do not press the clutch pedal you cannot start the car. It should be just a switch. I suggest you go to a junk yard and just take the whole pedal assembly. s;) ;) s;)
The shifter shaft is a shaft inside the tranny. It moves the forks inside and the shift linkages attach to it. You need to either fab one or get one from an MR-S 6speed because the Celica shaft comes out from the front and you need it to come out the rear now. You also need the housing cap where the shaft goes in since the celica one has no hole in it for the saft. On the other side where the shaft used to go out you just put a plug. It Will look just like the stock 5 speed from the outside plug included.
You also need to buy the shift linkages to make it work since the celica linkages are not good.
So you need.
Clutch pedal with switch
Shifter cables and linkages(these go on the tranny)
Shifter cage
Gearbox shifter shaft from a 6MT MR-S or custom celica shiftershaft
Gearbox housing shifter shaft plug that goes at the rear from a 5MT or 6MT MR-S
Plug for the front of the shiftershaft housing
That is all I think.
You can go to spyderchat in the library section for the whole 6 speed conversion written by littlerocket s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "markiii"thanks CIN
Adam I'd just get the TRD short shifter if you need to buy the cage assembly anyway.
No problem Mark. Always glad to help s:) :) s:)
ref this switch?
Since he has the 2zz ecu will he still need it?
Adam, CINS answer is only valid if teh engine you have sourced is jspec? if it's uk you won't need the switch as clutch down isn't a requirement.
Cin, your advice has been invaluable.
The 2zz sourced is a J-Spec so I will need the switch. I will order as many of the parts as I can today.
Thanks Adam
Good luck with the conversion Adam - will be interesting to see what it goes like when it's done for sure s:) :) s:)
BTW - who are you planning on getting to insure it? Or are you an old bugger for whom insurance isn't a problem s:D :D s:D Just wondering.. being well and truly beaten by a Vauxhall Vectra 2.5v6 this morning has left me (again) wanting more power s;) ;) s;) s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "aaronjb"BTW - who are you planning on getting to insure it? Or are you an old bugger for whom insurance isn't a problem s:D :D s:D
Old bugger he ain't (whippersnapper!), and I expect his trade insurance will cover it.
Ahhh.. that would certainly make insuring it nice and easy yeah..
D'oh s:) :) s:) Ah well - there go my plans (you've seen my insurance quotes, and my only performance mod is the TTE exhaust!) s:) :) s:)
I'm only 22. s8) 8) s8)
QuoteHi Adam
Just to let you know that we have located a 6spd manual gearbox for
2ZZGE which is complete at £350 we can also get ECU and wiring loom for
further £300 all with warranty etc - If you are interested please give
me a call
Looks like I didn't get the ECU with the engine s:( :( s:( I know the 1zz 6speed would be ideal but this will be worth £350 don't you think? I will ask if they can chuck in the clutch pedal etc..
Quote from: "Jap GT300"I'm only 22. s8) 8) s8)
Daaaamnnnn youuuu.... s:lol: :lol: s:lol: 22 and a 2zz powered '2.. Nice.. Well - if it all works (fingers crossed!). I won't call you lucky though, given how your last engine expired s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "Jap GT300"Looks like I didn't get the ECU with the engine s:( :( s:( I know the 1zz 6speed would be ideal but this will be worth £350 don't you think? I will ask if they can chuck in the clutch pedal etc..
If they throw everything in with the gearbox, I'd hazard a guess that it's not that bad a price really.. But then I'm more used to silly Nissan prices (s/hand box ~ £600, s/hand engine ~£1000+!) s:) :) s:)
I presume between you and Mark you probably have a healthy set of tools, but if you need to borrow anything feel free to ask if I've got one s:) :) s:)
Adam,
That gearbox price is plus getting the shaft machined. Add on teh ballache and cost of this and you may be better getting the roadster 6 speed?
I'd certainly ask first, or possibly see if you can buy the shaft seperately from a Uk dealer?
I have a JSPEC with a US 2ZZ-GE. On the JSPEC 1ZZ I needed to press the clutch to start it and so is the US 2ZZ-GE.
I do not know how the UK ones work. Does you car start even if you do not press the clutch??
As for the Transmission. Make sure you get a 2ZZ transmission(C60). The gear ratios wont be suitable for the 2ZZ if you use the MR2 transmission. Get a 2ZZ transmission and a shaft from an MR2 or machine one.
Quote from: "CIN"I do not know how the UK ones work. Does you car start even if you do not press the clutch??
Yep...
Oh. Then Toyota believes that we EU guys are not lawsuit maniacs like the merikans then s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "CIN"Oh. Then Toyota believes that we EU guys are not lawsuit maniacs like the merikans then s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
...or maybe most ppl in EU just know how to drive a manual car s;) ;) s;) Manual seems to be rare and expensive option on the other side of the pond...
(AFAIK, all US manual cars have this feature, but I'm sure there are some exceptions)
It is probably as you wrote my friend. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
How are you doing. You rarely post on SC anymore.
Quote from: "CIN"You rarely post on SC anymore.
Been a bit busy with work lately, +100 hours weeks don't really leave that much time for SC s:? :? s:? Just trying to keep up with the Performance Forum over there s8) 8) s8)
100hrs s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
That should bring in lots of $$$ though s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "CIN"As for the Transmission. Make sure you get a 2ZZ transmission(C60). The gear ratios wont be suitable for the 2ZZ if you use the MR2 transmission. Get a 2ZZ transmission and a shaft from an MR2 or machine one.
Will the 1zz gearbox really be that different? As a guide how much did it cost you to have the shaft machined?
Can I not do the 6 speed conversion on my SMT box and attach it to the 2zz once I have all the additional parts to convert it to a manual?
Also could I use the shift shaft from my SMT or is that different to the manual and does it have to 5/6 speed specific?
Thanks Adam
I beleive it is 5/6 speed specific.
Lets keep it simple.
Roadster Clutch pedal
Roadster Shift Cage
Roadster Cables
Celica 2zz Engine
Celica 2zz ECU
Celica 6 speed box
Machined Celica Shaft or Same one from Roadtster 6 speed
I beleive the shaft from the 5 speed will fit the 2zz if you are staying with teh 5 speed box, but not if you convert to 6 speed.
CIN are you assuming the J-spec 6 speed Celica ratios are teh same as teh US? 0r are you using teh J-spec?
I think you could use the 6SMT gearbox but to tell you the truth I never saw an SMT box so I do not know if it even has the same shifter shaft.
Can you take a pic or 2 of the gearbox and near the linkages(under the airbox)?
The problem is that the gear ratios on the C60 gearbox(2ZZ gearbox) are closer together than the 1ZZ variants. It is much easier to keep the engine above 6000rpm with the C60 than with the 5speed or the 6 speed of the MR2.
Gear ratios of all the 2ZZ gearboxes are the same all over the world including the new Elise 111R gearbox.
The MR2/Celica 1ZZ gearboxes are also all the same but the japanese/US gearboxes have slightly shorter ratios than the UK ones.
In 6 speed form they just have the same ratios(US/JP the same as before, UK the same as before slightly longer) as the 5 speed but with an added 6th.
Quote from: "markiii"I beleive it is 5/6 speed specific.
Lets keep it simple.
Roadster Clutch pedal
Roadster Shift Cage
Roadster Cables
Celica 2zz Engine
Celica 2zz ECU
Celica 6 speed box
Machined Celica Shaft or Same one from Roadtster 6 speed
I beleive the shaft from the 5 speed will fit the 2zz if you are staying with the 5 speed box, but not if you convert to 6 speed.
CIN are you assuming the J-spec 6 speed Celica ratios are the same as the US? 0r are you using the J-spec?
Yes the shafts are different because the 6 speed has reverse near 1st and 6th instead of R.
I am using the US gearbox but as I wrote in the other post, the ratios are the the same all over the world for the 2ZZ.
The machined shaft cost me about 10pounds to do but it was done by my uncle who works this stuff and did it for me. I think LR is selling them for $150. Remember that in the US labour is very expensive. I suggest you take out the celica one and machine it. Let me know when you are at that stage so I can try and send yo some pics of how it should become.
You can also try and use one from a MR2 6MT.
UK 1zz 6 speed boxes have a different final drive to the 5 speed so it's not justa case of having an extra gear.
as for 6speed SMT thats bringing us back to what started this whole issue, the 2zz ECU can't talk to teh SMT ECU. So if a 2zz is going in their it's going to have to be a manual box.
Quote from: "CIN"cost me about 10pounds
Do you accept paypal s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "markiii"UK 1zz 6 speed boxes have a different final drive to the 5 speed so it's not justa case of having an extra gear.
as for 6speed SMT thats bringing us back to what started this whole issue, the 2zz ECU can't talk to the SMT ECU. So if a 2zz is going in their it's going to have to be a manual box.
Yes it has a different final drive and different ratios than the equivalet 6speed in US/JP but IIRC it is the same final drive and ratios as the UK 5speed but with an additional 6th.
Still it is wider than the US/JP ones.
By comparison the 2ZZ gearbox has a more agressive final drive and closer ratios. So it is much better with the 2ZZ.
I would suggest you just get a 2ZZ gearbox and be done with it Adam.
As for the shaft. I dont have a shaft to work on anymore. What you do is you just take a 6speed shaft and go to the machine shop and tell him to make it longer and machine it like the 5 speed on the back end. The other end you just cut it out to fit.
I will try and find the pics LittleRocket had sent me of his conversion.
BTW Adam. Do you have any more pics of the Roll bar you have? I am really courios about it. I like it a lot.
its teh Netz if that helps.
No not that one. The other one on the stripped car. The one that looks like the Techno Pro Spirit roll bar on their road car.
Right, I have ordered the 2zz 6 speed and 2zz ECU both should be delivered tomorrow. I have also ordered the TRD shift cage which should be with me shortly.
I think I will order the other parts new from the dealership.
I do have some more pictures of the non-style Roll Bar which i'll post shortly in another thread.
Quote from: "Jap GT300"Right, I have ordered the 2zz 6 speed and 2zz ECU both should be delivered tomorrow. I have also ordered the TRD shift cage which should be with me shortly.
I think I will order the other parts new from the dealership.
I do have some more pictures of the non-style Roll Bar which i'll post shortly in another thread.
Thanks:)
Oh and I dont know about buying from the dealer. I think the shaft will cost a lot and also the linkage. Try to find one from a yard or something.
I now have all the parts excluding the rods (gearbox linkages)
I have just been reading up on SC and have realised another potential problem. How am I going to get the header to mate to the exhaust?
I think I am going to have to get one fabbed. I notice LR and 2XXY of SC are considering a rocket style header. Do you think Hayward and Scott would make a one off like this? I guess that will be big money.
Thanks Adam
Adam,
I spoke to H&S regarding the header and they will make anything you want. To be honest though I would be tempted to speak to Paul at PPE and see if he will do you a rocket header with a 2zz flange. I'm sure he'll oblige. At the current exchange rate, and bearing in mind the design all ready exists, H&S would have to do R&D as well, it will probably be an all round better bet.
I have got some preliminary pictures together. The gearbox and ECU are already connected to the engine. The end of the fuse box just seem to have been cut.
CIN, did you use most of the existing hoses etc. from the MR2. All of the 2zz stuff has been chopped in half.
http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zz_engineb.JPG
Inlet Manifold side of the engine. Note that the path to cylinders 3 and 4 has been damaged but not ruptured.
http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zz_engines.JPG
Side on view of the whole engine.
http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zz_exhaust.JPG
2zz exhaust manifold (covered by the heat shield). I understand that to keep this I will have to modify it, making it shorter by moving the flange up
http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zz_fuseb.JPG
Bottom of the 2zz fuse box showing all the sliced cables.
http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zz_fuset.JPG
Top of the fuse box. You can see two connectors still in there. I think this is where the MR2 loom will fit instead.
http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zz_gearbox.JPG
6sp manual gearbox all connected and in good order. You can see where the drive shafts have just been cut. Do I use the MR2 shafts?
http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zz_pulley.JPG
Picture of the pulleys with no belt. Guess I will have to order that.
comments.
It looks liek they could have been more sympathetic in removing the enigine. Shame they butchered teh wiring loom so badly, it would have easier to see if the engine runs before doing all the ballache of installing it.
1, Cin, did you use the 2zz or 1zz fuse box?
2, Cin, did you use teh MR2 driveshafts?
Inlet manifold probably should be replaced, though the current one should suffice to prove it runs.
All components have a 60 day warranty. I also have 2 cerificates to say that it is a runner. 1 from japcarparts (UK and one from a company in Japan.
How many engine mounts should there be? I think I have found 3.
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/mount.JPG (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/mount.JPG) m
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/mount1.JPG (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/mount1.JPG) m
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/mount2.JPG (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/mount2.JPG) m
Also there is no throttle cable
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/throttle.JPG (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/throttle.JPG) m
And rather alarmingly something seem to have snapped. Do you know what it is?
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/broken.JPG (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/broken.JPG) m
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/broken1.JPG (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/broken1.JPG) m
Quote from: "markiii"comments.
It looks liek they could have been more sympathetic in removing the enigine. Shame they butchered the wiring loom so badly, it would have easier to see if the engine runs before doing all the ballache of installing it.
1, Cin, did you use the 2zz or 1zz fuse box?
2, Cin, did you use the MR2 driveshafts?
Inlet manifold probably should be replaced, though the current one should suffice to prove it runs.
Wiring is all 1ZZ. You need to add the VVTL-i wiris and the OCV wires and swap some pins.
The Driveshafts are MR-2
Quote from: "Jap GT300"All components have a 60 day warranty. I also have 2 cerificates to say that it is a runner. 1 from japcarparts (UK and one from a company in Japan.
How many engine mounts should there be? I think I have found 3.
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/mount.JPG (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/mount.JPG) m
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/mount1.JPG (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/mount1.JPG) m
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/mount2.JPG (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/mount2.JPG) m
Also there is no throttle cable
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/throttle.JPG (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/throttle.JPG) m
And rather alarmingly something seem to have snapped. Do you know what it is?
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/broken.JPG (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/broken.JPG) m
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/broken1.JPG (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/broken1.JPG) m
Engine mounts are 3 and 1 gearbox.
TCable is 1ZZ,
You seem to have the tensioner broken. I think you can use the 1ZZ istead of it. Se if it is the same.
That manifold should probably be replaced for max power.
Quote from: "Jap GT300"I have got some preliminary pictures together. The gearbox and ECU are already connected to the engine. The end of the fuse box just seem to have been cut.
CIN, did you use most of the existing hoses etc. from the MR2. All of the 2zz stuff has been chopped in half.
http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zz_engineb.JPG
Inlet Manifold side of the engine. Note that the path to cylinders 3 and 4 has been damaged but not ruptured.
http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zz_engines.JPG
Side on view of the whole engine.
http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zz_exhaust.JPG
2zz exhaust manifold (covered by the heat shield). I understand that to keep this I will have to modify it, making it shorter by moving the flange up
http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zz_fuseb.JPG
Bottom of the 2zz fuse box showing all the sliced cables.
http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zz_fuset.JPG
Top of the fuse box. You can see two connectors still in there. I think this is where the MR2 loom will fit instead.
http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zz_gearbox.JPG
6sp manual gearbox all connected and in good order. You can see where the drive shafts have just been cut. Do I use the MR2 shafts?
http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zz_pulley.JPG
Picture of the pulleys with no belt. Guess I will have to order that.
Hoses you use 1ZZ and you have to close some of the ones on the 2ZZ head. You just swap everything from the 1ZZ to the 2ZZ inc wiring harness.
Adam,
That look like the belt tensioner mount. Which is probably why your missing the serpentine belt.
The belt from teh 1zz will fit, the tensioner mount looks like it might as well. In which case we can unbolt it from the 1zz and swap
Looking promising then Adam..
The damage looks like fairly typical breakers damage s:? :? s:? sadly.. Although it looks like one side of 'mount2' has been hacked off as well, or is that just a trick of the picture?
At this rate, you'll have it done by next weekend, no worries s;) ;) s;)
Your right the belts and tensioner are both identical so that wont be a problem.
I want to get it done asap. don't know about next weekend though. hopefully 2-3 weeks.
Looks like i'm all set then. I'll start disconnectting all the stuff in my engine bay (preserving as much as possible).
What will need to be bled? PAS, Oil, coolant, anything else?
Also are the oil filters the same, as the 2zz is all dented, they look alike?
thanks adam
ps you're right one of the mounts has been cut s:x :x s:x
Filters are the same. You will have to bleed the coolant and the clutch(which I found was a major PITA in my case because it was out of fluid and had major air in it).
BTW I actually use a starlet filter which is the same as teh one on the 1zz-2zz. It is specified for the 3S-GE/3S-GTE.
I'm finding that the Toyota range is very inter-changable. Just one last querie that has been bugging me and i've not been able to find an answer to. What engine mounts do i use.
Gearbox mount - 1ZZ
Intake mount - 1ZZ
Exhaust Mount - 2ZZ
Pulley Mount - 2ZZ
Is this right?
Thanks Adam
IIRC the chassis mounts are all from the MR-S. The others I do not recall really. The right one should be from the 2ZZ.
Adam,
Worth a look at m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtop ... =2zz+s2%2A (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=10036&highlight=2zz+s2%2A) m
look for the comment fref the throttle switch
Blitzo mentions this in his wiring diagram. I think we have it covered.
I've been speaking with Alex my mechanic and while he will be prodominently working on Kerries 2' over the weekend he reckons with his help the conversion should be completed, save for the gear linkages etc.
Could someone do me a favour and look at the pedal setup on the 2'. Although I have the clutch pedal apparrently all the pedals are linked and you have to buy the set of three.
Thanks Adam
spent most of the weekend under there doing wiring and they looked seperate to me. I'll look at the BGB hang on.
Quote from: "CIN"The right one should be from the 2ZZ.
The one at the top of the pulleys, right.
w www.spydermods.com/legacy/celica (http://www.spydermods.com/legacy/celica) w spyder wiring.xls
m http://www.spydermods.com/legacy/celica ... wiring.xls (http://www.spydermods.com/legacy/celica%20spyder%20wiring.xls) m
Blitzo's info attached
Quote from: "Jap GT300"Quote from: "CIN"The right one should be from the 2ZZ.
The one at the top of the pulleys, right.
I dont really remember what exactly we used but the chassis mounts are all the original MR-S while the engine mounts. The right one over the pullies is the 2ZZ and I think the others are too. You can see if it fits and then swap from 1ZZ to 2ZZ if needed.
You also need to either modify the right mount bridge(aluminium piece that attaches the right engine and chassis mount together)or fab a new one.
BTW you need to sway the TPS wires because it will read backwards and the car will bog down.
IIRC it is the brown with the red striped one. 1 with 2. Just take the pin out of the connector and swap it. This is done on the connector side.
You should tank Blitzo for this info since I completely forgot about it(It has been a long time now since I did the swap s:P :P s:P ). He is a wiring genius.
With the help of Markiii yesterday we were able to disconnect and drop the 1zz from my car.
It took slightly longer than expected as we forgot to remove the throttle cable and fuel line. A couple of things not previously mentioned, it is easier to drop the engine by removing the exhaust side engine mount completely from the chassis. The fuel line is also attached by a specialist tool that is toyota specific. We had to remove the fuel rail completely. The 2zz and 1zz have the same rail. We then swapped the injectors as the 2zz has larger ones.
You have to completely remove the PAS pulley as the 2' is not belt driven. Also we had to add the aircon pulley to compensate for the belt size.
All mounts have been swapped and the 2zz is ready to be dropped. Hopefully next weekend. I will get some pictures uploaded shortly.
now all I have to do is organise the parts for the manual conversion and get the gear shaft adjusted.
p.s. the drive shaft are an absolute bugger to knock out.
you make it sound so simple there Adam. :-) :-) :-)
I am having the gear linkage shaft fabricated by Little Rocket from Spyderchat. He is charging $200 and it will be returned to me approx. 2 weeks after I send it.
Mark, you mentioned getting Brass bushings for the gear linkage. Where do I purchase these?
Thanks Adam
Here are a few of the pics that we took.
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/ ... ersion.JPG (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zzconversion.JPG) m
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/ ... rsion1.JPG (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zzconversion1.JPG) m
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/ ... rsion2.jpg (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zzconversion2.jpg) m
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/ ... rsion3.jpg (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zzconversion3.jpg) m
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/ ... rsion4.jpg (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zzconversion4.jpg) m
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/ ... rsion5.jpg (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zzconversion5.jpg) m
Quote from: "Jap GT300"I am having the gear linkage shaft fabricated by Little Rocket from Spyderchat. He is charging $200 and it will be returned to me approx. 2 weeks after I send it.
Mark, you mentioned getting Brass bushings for the gear linkage. Where do I purchase these?
Thanks Adam
m http://www.mr2roc.org/viewtopic.php?t=2358 (http://www.mr2roc.org/viewtopic.php?t=2358) m
ahhh the powers of search, i'm soo lazy.
Just ordered them
for anyone interested the SMT lacks the opening in the transmission tunnell to run teh manual shift cables.
ask me how I know.
Mark (having spent most of teh day with a drill and a file)
And here is what we have achieved so far s:shock: :shock: s:shock: Not bad for 1.5 days labour, me thinks. Now it just needs all the hoses connecting, ECU and loom being modified (thanks Mark) And then the gearbox!
(http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zzin1.JPG)
(http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zzin2.JPG)
(http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zzin3.JPG)
(http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/2zzin4.JPG)
I have now removed the wiring loom from the 1zz so that it can be modified as per blitzo's instructions.
I never realised it was so complex and had so many sensors.
(http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/1zzloom.JPG)
Quote from: "markiii"for anyone interested the SMT lacks the opening in the transmission tunnell to run the manual shift cables.
ask me how I know.
Adam locked you in the garage, didn't he? s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Impressive progress from the both of you anyway, in a very short time.
Quote from: "Jap GT300"I have now removed the wiring loom from the 1zz so that it can be modified as per blitzo's instructions.
I never realised it was so complex and had so many sensors.
That's a lot of sensors considering the small size of the engine.. To compare how engine technology (and complexity) has moved on, this (http://www.mindserv.co.uk/nissanimg/egiharness_large.jpg) (excuse the quilt cover! s:oops: :oops: s:oops: ) is the loom from my other car - which has 2 cylinders extra, but only half the number of sensors by the look of things.. And for it's time (1990) it was an advanced engine..
Having removed the loom from the 1zz, you would not have thought that your one is from a 6 cylinder.
Quote from: "markiii"for anyone interested the SMT lacks the opening in the transmission tunnell to run the manual shift cables.
ask me how I know.
Mark (having spent most of the day with a drill and a file)
Shouldn't that be a
blunt drill and a
carpenters file? s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
hence the most of the day :-) :-) :-)
if you need help with that loom im only accross the bridge and it would be quicker to make a new one from scracth and less confusing (if you never made one before of course ) s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Thanks for the offer but hopefully we are only doing some minimal adjustments. I must admit it does look a nightmare.
I have had a go at dismantling the loom initially to remove everything associated with the SMT. I was hoping this would be an easy exercise and it was independant of the standard 1ZZ loom.
Well all the cables seem to be intertwined and you can't simple pull out the SMT section. In addition to this some of the SMT wires revert back up the loom and take readings from other sensors that are not directly related with SMT.
I am wondering whether the SMT loom will be usable at all. Shall I just cut the SMT part of the loom out?
depends ! as you say it relise on the same senosr's as manual so if you cut it conpletely out then you may lose some of the sensor's
but trace them back multi them back to see if they are needed or not it will take time but at least you can sit down and do it.
I find lableing as i go helps and completely removing all the outer seath so that all the wires are exposed, this also shows up connections into the loom maybe from the SMT to manul
I could be tempted to just buy th emanual loom from that scrapped one. near you.
Actually, as I recall, the loom was still there and appeared un-molested. I It might be a good idea...
Also the plastics for re-trimming the roll hoops were there as well?
Quote from: "GSB"Also the plastics for re-trimming the roll hoops were there as well?
What part is this?
I will order the manual loom then and the clutch hydraulic lines from underneath the car.
Thanks Adam
Blizo seems to think we can use the SMT loom as long as all the sensors it connects to are gearbox end.
I will have to check this tonight by laying the loom back around the engine.
Quote from: "Jap GT300"What part is this?
The plastics that run up the rear of the door apatures to the hood surround. Yours that have a hole in them for the roll hoop / style bar to come through thats about an inch to big. Thought you might like to have another go... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
ahhh. I was actually going to try and get a rubber gromit for those like the TTE bar uses. I didn't think they looked that bad s:( :( s:(
Quote from: "Jap GT300"ahhh. I was actually going to try and get a rubber gromit for those like the TTE bar uses. I didn't think they looked that bad s:( :( s:(
They dont look
that bad... s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Mark and I were discussing it the other day, and whilst I mentioned to him that un-drilled plastics were still available, I forgot to tell you. So now you know...
I have a cure for you, approx £4
Great, what is it?
Ikea do packs of the plastic cirular inserts for desks.
the idea is you cut a hole, and put the insert into it. they consist of a plastic ring (just bigger than your roll bar) and an insert with a slot for cables.
discard the insert.
if you can't slide it over the end of the netz, though I think you can. cut the ring (carefully with a fine hacksaw) and bend slightly to allow you to get it around the bar.
You may need to sand down the seat side of the ring slightly. but if you do, a few coats of flat black paint will hide the evidence.
Well it looks like the SMT loom will work okay. We will just have to ignore the additional connections.
I am having a nightmare working out this wiring diagram. If the offer is still open Mark could I drop it up to you?
Thanks Adam
no problem.
Have you had a look at the loom yet Mark? I know it's a daunting task.
LittleRocket has just confirmed receipt of the Shaft, so hopefully that won't take too long to get back.
I have ordered the hydraulic lines that go from the Clutch reservoir to the Slave cylinder. Do you know if this is a solid line or hose?
The only part I think I need now is the Gearbox side gear linkage bracket. Does anyone know the location of any other salvage 2's?
Thanks Adam
not yet. anglesey kind of got in the way. hopefully will take a look tommorow.
No rush, I was just interested to see if you had given up on it yet s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Hey Adam, IN the process of getting all the bits and pieces together top convert your GT300 from SMT to manual, did you get hold of the leather gearshift gaiter?
m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... gory=36679 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2463801591&category=36679) m
Ah ha, great minds think alike. I bid on that about 1hr ago
thought I'd update you all.
While embarking on the modification of Adams wiring loom, I have discovered that it is completely different to the Manual.
The manual loom has 4 connectors going into the ECU the SMT only 2. Looking at the bus connector that goes to teh SMT ECU (see m http://www.mr2roc.org/viewtopic.php?t=2970 (http://www.mr2roc.org/viewtopic.php?t=2970) m )
it seems the SMT ECU does more than I first thought.
Heres the SMT Wiring loom (I'll update later)
(http://www.mr2roc.org/graphics/wiringloom/smtwiringloom.jpg)
And here is the 1zzSMT ECU
(http://www.mr2roc.org/graphics/ecupics/1zzecusmt1.jpg)
(http://www.mr2roc.org/graphics/ecupics/1zzecusmt2.jpg)
(http://www.mr2roc.org/graphics/ecupics/1zzecusmt3.jpg)
And heres the 2zz M/T ECU
(http://www.mr2roc.org/graphics/ecupics/2zzecu1.jpg)
(http://www.mr2roc.org/graphics/ecupics/2zzecu2.jpg)
(http://www.mr2roc.org/graphics/ecupics/2zzecu3.jpg)[/img]
I should have the manual loom this weekend. I will try and drop it up then if it is convienient.
Thanks Adam
Slowly getting there.
The broken sensor we found on the side of the engine that we thought was to do with the VVT Lift turned out to be an oil pressure sensor which I have swapped from the 1ZZ.
Still waiting on the shaft back from the US, hopefully it will be this week.
The manifolds both 1ZZ and 2ZZ have had the engine side flanges cut off and are ready to be re-welded. For the moment I will be using a 1ZZ gutted manifold with 2ZZ flange connected to main cat and TTE backbox.
1ZZ SMT loom is fitted to the engine but not plugged to the 2ZZ ECU.
Oil dipstick still needs to be re-bent and fitted.
And finally the clutch pedal, reservoir and hydraulic line need to be fitted.
I am going to be installing an aftermarket replacement or piggyback ECU, I have not yet purchased this but does anyone know if it is essential to have it installed before the car is driveable?
Thanks Adam
the car will drive fine with teh stock ecu as long as teh intake piping and throttle body connections are correct if IIRC.
not wishing to rain on teh parade but teh 2zz sits slightly differentyl to teh 1zz, it's might work, but theres no guarantee that the 1zz manifold with 2zz flange is going to mate up to teh stock cat pipe that easily.
I have made an intake out of the original 2ZZ piping with the MAF at similar lengh from the throttle body as on the Celica it's only down fall is that it has a Blitz filter. I will be changing this but it's the only I've got at home.
I worked out that the 2ZZ exhaust ports sit 3cm higher than the 1ZZ. I believe there is enough clearance under the rear support to account for this. In any event the 1ZZ manfold exit points downwards and the 2ZZ points backwards. So there is room for error because of the CAT's flexi joint.
intake will work ok, your right about teh blitz though :-) :-) :-)
gald to see you considered the exhaust, Personally I don't think teh flexi joint has sufficient movement to accomadate that bi a difference though. Still as long as youdon't need to drive it zan hour after your fitting it, theres time to resolve it :-) :-) :-)
Come to think of it I have 2 spare main cats so I could bodge something together there as well if needed.
Adam,
I had a look at my new manuals and found that the little device bolted to the cylinder head on the 1zz (the one that served no visible function) is in fact a noise filter (i.e. capacitor). Its lumped in with the igniton system wiring in the book so its probably to stop noise from the ignition coils. If the 2zz doesnt have one of these, then that wire can be relocated in the ecu plug in order to serve as the "lift" oil pressure switch connection.
Well I've still not driven it, but all i'm waiting on now is the Gearbox shaft to arrive back from the US.
I have made all the nessessary adjustments to the wiring loom and filled it all with oil and coolant. I fixed a couple of leaks, nothing serious.
It starts up okay and is very loud at the moment. I must plug those O2 holes!
The engine dies as soon as I try and rev it because I have not wired in the TPS. I'm trying to find the location for these three wires on the ECU and then it will be complete.
Adam the TPS wires do not go to the ECU directly. Talk to Blitzo I am sure he can help you.
Hi CIN
Blitzo has told me to put the TPS to the ECU. TPS are VC and VTA pins 2 and 23 on connector C. It uses the E2 gnd on connector C, but shares this gnd with a bunch of other sensors.
Do you know which colour is which?
Thanks Adam
Adam that is exactly what mine was doing, It is now fixed but they have not changed anything just stripped and re-assembled my throttle body, Guess I could have had a bad connection possibly.
Hmm worth looking at. I've also got to give the MAF and single O2 a good clean.
talking of MAF 1zz or 2zz?
2zz diameter intake pipe I take it?
Either, they are identical and have the same part number. I have 2.75 intake piping. 1ZZ is 2.5!
rules that out then s:-( :-( s:-(
Remember on the diagram we couldn't find an IGT4 well there definately isn't a cable for iton the ECU.
I'm going to plug the SMT in to see if there is a difference.
Hi Grant,
Do you remember when converting the TPS from SMT (4 wire) to Manual (3 wire) if you accounted for the butterfly control to open in the right direction or did you just do it in the 1ZZ format?
Thanks Adam
Adam,
I cant remember, s:oops: :oops: s:oops: but if you want a definitive answer, and a hand getting it running, I'm free on Sunday? I can pop over any time.
OK, I can't help myself any longer! s:) :) s:)
Is there a progress report, finished it yet?
Cheers
Andy
Quote from: "Andy S"Is there a progress report, finished it yet?
You should have come to JAE and seen it running in the flesh! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "Slacey"Quote from: "Andy S"Is there a progress report, finished it yet?
You should have come to JAE and seen it running in the flesh! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Guess that answers my question! I'll have to start looking for a 2ZZ in a couple of years, after the warranty!!
I should also have read the JAE report as well - I've not had much time for hanging around here recently. Sorry!
Andy
Unfortunately there wasn't an official unveiling as it was only finished in the early hours last Saturday and then driven straight up to JAE.
I will get some final pictures posted up!
Quote from: "Jap GT300"I have now removed the wiring loom from the 1zz so that it can be modified as per blitzo's instructions.
I never realised it was so complex and had so many sensors.
(http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/1zzloom.JPG)
Happen to have this pic somewhere? s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "Jap GT300"I have now removed the wiring loom from the 1zz so that it can be modified as per blitzo's instructions.
I never realised it was so complex and had so many sensors.
m http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/1zzloom.JPG (http://www.gt-international.com/MR2ROC/1zzloom.JPG) m
Do you still have this pic? Could you upload it somewhere or email to me? s8) 8) s8)
Ah ha, it took me a while
m http://www.angelfire.com/space/mr-s/2zz ... npage.html (http://www.angelfire.com/space/mr-s/2zzconversionpage.html) m
If you save the picture to your desktop it should increase in size.
Thanks! s8) 8) s8)