As many of you know there are many alternatives intake kits available for the Roadster. The, Apexi, AEM, and Injen to name but a few.
All of these aim to do one thing put more air into you engine to enable it to make more power.
Usually they have little to no effect producing 1-2BHP if your very very lucky. The reason for this is that while they may suck in more air (In tests with the Pocketlogger airflow was seen to rise) however they also suck in significantly warmer air which has the effect of negating most if not all of the benefits of increased airflow.
The reason for this is that the stock factory airbox is actually quite good at what it does. Providing Cold air.
As a result most aftermarket intake kits actually provide only one thing noise. OK maybe 2 it looks nice. If you like this great if not read on..
If the noise is all you are after there is a FREE yes FREE way of obtaining this. Feeding into the stock airbox is a tapered elbow shaped plastic tube. Remove this and marvel at your induction roar.
I'm sure Kris will comment on this soon as we removed his last weekend.
So would you like POWER but not quite as much noise?
TRD have since the inception of the Roadster sold this
m http://www.japanparts.com/Pic/pic043/TRD099-012.JPG (http://www.japanparts.com/Pic/pic043/TRD099-012.JPG) m
This inlet duct replaces the tapered part of the stock airbox. This should give the benefits of both having the elbow in-place (cold air) and taking it out (improved airflow), and would seem to be a rather good idea. Don't forget you still have the option of using an aftermarket filter to further improve things.
Now the down side. TRD charge £186.64 for this small piece of pipe, cheeky to put it mildly.
So we (SteveJ and I) decided we could do better. I currently have sitting in my Roadster a polished stainless replacement intake pipe that eliminates the restriction.
See below.
m http://www.SpyderMagazine.com/files/picture%20008.jpg (http://www.spydermagazine.com/files/picture%20008.jpg) m
And the good news is they are likely to be available for £50 each. Though I expect that for more this would go down, and have already been told by the manufacturer that a probable £10 reduction could be found if people wanted them unpolished - perhaps you want to paint yours?
Noise wise the induction roar is not as loud as an intake kit, in compensation however there is a nice whine reminiscent of a quiet supercharger at certain revs.
I know Steve wants one and Kris has already asked me to organise a GB as he wants one.
So anyone interested? Feel free to ask questions. And if necessary I will post in the GB forum later on.
Had a go in Kris's car with your no cost noise mod. Definately put me down on your list please for the nice chrome jobbie. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
So do i put my name down? Unpolished please! s:D :D s:D
Heath & Phil can both comment on the noise as they both came out for a spin in mine at the weekend. You can drive without it making any extra noise, its not until you plant the throttle around 3000rpm that all hell breaks loose and you sound like a TVR! s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: (well maybe not quite that loud!)
Kris is right, sans-inake quietener it gives a lovely throaty roar to the rear of your car when the throttle is fully open.
And I've heard Markiii's too... and as he says, makes a lovely difference, almost supercharged.
want one then Phil?
Still can't decide s:? :? s:?
you know my job is to make you spend momey. Just accept it and say yes please s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I've just bought the Apexi kit and NOW you make these? Dman you s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "markiii"you know my job is to make you spend momey. Just accept it and say yes please s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
50squids isn't a problem, and isn't the issue. Let me think it over some more s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "Tem"I've just bought the Apexi kit and NOW you make these? Dman you s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Just put it in front of your Apexi, directing lovely cold air at it? s;) ;) s;)
sorry Tem, it's been in the pipeline for a while, if I'd realised you'd be interested I'd have posted last week.
Any other roadster owners in finland you can sell too?
Quote from: "phil4"Quote from: "markiii"you know my job is to make you spend momey. Just accept it and say yes please s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
50squids isn't a problem, and isn't the issue. Let me think it over some more s:) :) s:)
yeah I know it's Mr Insurance company.
Quote from: "markiii"If the noise is all you are after there is a FREE yes FREE way of obtaining this. Feeding into the stock airbox is a tapered elbow shaped plastic tube. Remove this and marvel at your induction roar.
Do we have a piccy of this, I remember seeing Busters? done at yours mark, but cant remember what needs removing (and you know what I am like with cars and bits!)
Is it a nice noisy with stock airbox, or do you really need the apexi?
Quote from: "markiii"Quote from: "phil4"Quote from: "markiii"you know my job is to make you spend momey. Just accept it and say yes please s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
50squids isn't a problem, and isn't the issue. Let me think it over some more s:) :) s:)
yeah I know it's Mr Insurance company.
Good guess s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "cstevens"Is it a nice noisy with stock airbox, or do you really need the apexi?
I think i got a pic mate - will have a look when i get home. You dont need the apexi, trust me its LOUD! s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Personal view is the Apexi noise is nicer (not much) than just removing the pipe. I prefer the new pipe to the apexi though.
Is it niceer enough to justify the cost. Probably not.
Pipe removal involves removing teh left side rear light, (2 screws) and then coaxing it out. Getting the new pipe in involves removing 1 more screw that holds the coolant tank in place in order to slip the mounting btacket in.
10 minute job at most.
The problem we had with Busters was the fact that his rear spoiler obstructed removal of the rear light. Not normally an issue but they had glued the spoiler on. oops
Quote from: "phil4"Just put it in front of your Apexi, directing lovely cold air at it? s;) ;) s;)
I did think about that...but I'm not really sure if it helps anything...any thoughts?
Quote from: "markiii"Any other roadster owners in finland you can sell too?
Not likely...there's only 19 of them here and the other 2 owners I know consider 17" wheels the ultimate tuning for new car s:? :? s:?
I think it would probably work with the Apexi, if someone can post a good pic of the APexi filter location I'll take a look, possible extra Market, hmmn
You could of course sell teh Apexi to the guys that love 17" wheels, it will make it look and sound faster, which after all is hat they are after.
Check these pics:
m http://www.spydermagazine.com/2000/Sept/Apexi/apexi.htm (http://www.spydermagazine.com/2000/Sept/Apexi/apexi.htm) m
I was just wondering that even if it would get some cold air near the filter, would all the airflow around it pretty much cancel it...? Maybe if the ouput of that new pipe could somehow be sealed around the Apexi filter...using the now useless stock airbox or something...
This sounds great as I was messing about trying to find a suitable pipe to put in their the other week. How far does the pipe extend to the exterior vent? When will they be available Mark? This will go great with my Blitz Panel Filter
Cheers
Mike
I'm afraid that doesn't really show what I'm after. I need to see where the filter ends up relative to the light cluster.
The Apexi comes with a conical heatshield, which in theory this would duct air into the top of, so if the dimensions work you'll probably be ok without fabbing anything.
I'm still wating for APEXI to relase a panel filter.
I'm tempted, and might switch insurance to DIG in May, but i have a few questions....
1. I've got the same spoiler as Buster (I think)... will I need to remove the spoiler, light etc in order just to try out the FREE way to induction roar? Or could i just remove one end or something? I thought i might remove the stock pipe just to see what it sounds like for a couple of days.
2. Any idea of expected bhp increase with the new pipe?
3. Would changing the filter (from stock) make any additional difference?
Cheers,
Russ
I'm up for one, if someone (anyone?) would be kind enough to help me fit it!
(I nearly messed up replacing the airfilter element s:oops: :oops: s:oops: )
Polished please.
Ian
Quote from: "markiii"I'm afraid that doesn't really show what I'm after. I need to see where the filter ends up relative to the light cluster.
This is pretty much the only pic on Spydermagazine that shows the filter...doesn't show the lights though:
m http://www.spydermagazine.com/files/Apex2.jpg (http://www.spydermagazine.com/files/Apex2.jpg) m
Best one I've got...
(http://www.spydermagazine.com/files/apexintake.jpg)
Dman you Mark, stop tempting me to spend money (and increase my insurance s:) :) s:) )!
Whats the ETA going to be on these? Gonna be pretty strapped for cash soon what with the insurance, UD Jr GB and brace GB (and starting a business and halving my salary!)
I have better shots of the apexi at home from when we installed Chris'
Craid, put your name down for one mate - you know you want to! s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Just for comparison to the new pipe shown above, here is a photo of the stock pipe on my car with its restriction.
Edit: See the post below, where Kris has kindly edited my photo for a little more clarity. The original picture can be seen here:
(http://www.spydermagazine.com/files/GSBrestriction.jpg)
and in case you dont know what your looking for:
(http://www.mr2-roadster.co.uk/rocstuff/rest1.jpg)
As you can see, on the left of the highlighted area there is a nice thick pipe and coming out of it is a thin pipe... the thin pipe has simply been made thinner at this point and the replacement will not have this, thus no restriction! s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
HTH
what about makinfg apipe to reposition the Apexi to become a cai?
Quote from: "Mikeharper2"This sounds great as I was messing about trying to find a suitable pipe to put in their the other week. How far does the pipe extend to the exterior vent? When will they be available Mark? This will go great with my Blitz Panel Filter
Cheers
Mike
Mike there is a semi flexible pipe that runs over the wheel arch within the wing. It feeds from near the side vent (cold air) and emerges just behind the left light cluster. At that point it it the same diameter as the opening in your airbox.
For some reason, either noise, or cold weather choking, Toyota fit a tapered restricitng elbow between the 2.
This pipe simply links the 2 together and replaces that restrictive stock one.
Quote from: "zud"I'm tempted, and might switch insurance to DIG in May, but i have a few questions....
1. I've got the same spoiler as Buster (I think)... will I need to remove the spoiler, light etc in order just to try out the FREE way to induction roar? Or could i just remove one end or something? I thought i might remove the stock pipe just to see what it sounds like for a couple of days.
2. Any idea of expected bhp increase with the new pipe?
3. Would changing the filter (from stock) make any additional difference?
Cheers,
Russ
Zud
You can see from grants picture where we need to get so if your spoiler is fitted the same way you will have the same problem, this isn't insurmountable but it isn't 10 minutes work either, probably the easiest way is to remove the airbox first.
BHP is going to be Marginal, I haven't yet dynoed it at most I'd say 3bhp. Better throttle response is easier to quantify. It certainly has more chance of making power than most intakes.
Ref the filter maybe, I'm still running the stock, this is a bone of contention so I'll start another thread where we can discuss it.
just a couple of questions??
what difference would it make on the insurance?????
and is there any difference on fuel consumption????
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "markiii"I'm afraid that doesn't really show what I'm after. I need to see where the filter ends up relative to the light cluster.
This is pretty much the only pic on Spydermagazine that shows the filter...doesn't show the lights though:
m http://www.spydermagazine.com/files/Apex2.jpg (http://www.spydermagazine.com/files/Apex2.jpg) m
Tem,
Based on that I'd say the pipe will be too long. you could cut it down but is that going to be better than no pipe? who knows.
This assumes you haven't got the apexi heatshield on. If you do I wouldn't bother.
Quote from: "aaronjb"Dman you Mark, stop tempting me to spend money (and increase my insurance s:) :) s:) )!
Whats the ETA going to be on these? Gonna be pretty strapped for cash soon what with the insurance, UD Jr GB and brace GB (and starting a business and halving my salary!)
lead times are uncertain but they will be fabricated to order so I'd expect a month or 2 in all honesty.
Quote from: "Jonny Turbo"what about makinfg apipe to reposition the Apexi to become a cai?
Not sure exactly what your thinking I'm sure it could be done. though I've no idea ref cost and it will be outside the scope of this.
I've already done the R&D on this so making more will be a known quantity.
Quote from: "jonboy"just a couple of questions??
what difference would it make on the insurance?????
and is there any difference on fuel consumption????
I've not noticed really with regard to fuel consumption.
If you beleive it makes power then yes, because air will be useless without more fuel.
enough to see a difference at the pump I wouldn't have though so.
Ref insurance? Thats an interesting one. Your replacing a pipe with a slightly more expensive shiney bit. It's not a commercial product, and I'm not making any miraculous BHP increasing claims, and it's not been dynoed.
I've told my insurance company because it makes no difference to mine. Whether you consider it a performance mod that you should tell yours about I don't know.
when are you looking at supplying as i am very interested????
probably a month or 2. They will be fabbed to order, so it depends on how busy they are. I will need to go back and confirm pricing once we have finalised who is interested.
Oh b*gger. I would be interested but I've got an Apexi and I'm in the process of getting another stock elbow from Big'un after butchering my first one.
I need a complete stock elbow for any warranty claims!
I had cut the stock elbow in half (at the bend) to try and direct some air towards the Apexi, no idea on whether it works though.
If I'd known you were after one youcould have had it gratis, I have a spare in the loft somewhere.
Your theory should work if you use the wider end. Not sure how you'd mount it to the bracket though.
count me in please.a polished one.
Right I've put some thought into this, as there must be some reason why Toyota put that restriction in place, bar the obvious point that TRD could sell us straight ones for £200...
Now I'm just guessing, but I reckon...:
Many multivalve engines use a slight restriction in the intake to tune the cars torque characteristics and improve emmisions. Markiii has pointed out that the MR2 appears to have all this further along the inlet tract adjacent to the throttle body, so whats the restriction in the elbow above for?
Well, I reckon its there to make the filter more efficient. Thats efficient in the sense that it'll last longer rather than it make more power. By restricting the airflow just before the filter, the air velocity is increased, which would make for far better distribution of particulates over the area of the filter panel. This way the filter doesn't get clogged up in patches, but collects dirt and insects more evenly across its surface, so it'll last the 20,000 miles or more that Toyota seem to expect of it. s:roll: :roll: s:roll: The only problem with this grand idea is that restrictions impede airflow, which isn't going to make my car any faster...
Personally, I change my filter about twice a year anyway, as living in london tends to clog it up quite badly. Thus I'm not quite so interested in making my filter last longer, as I am in cramming more cool air into my engine...
Put me down for one of these Mark, It looks like a sound idea...
Ah i see, sorry got the wrong end of the stick so to speak. I may be wrong but i can remember reading something about this on Spyderchat that it was designed this way to increase the air charge, going from low to high pressure? Something like that?
I'm sold on one though as long as i can get the light off with my spoiler.
Quote from: "GSB"so whats the restriction in the elbow above for?
This was another little nugget we got from TTE during our visit to Essen - the restriction is there to remove the noise that we are trying to achieve - it's all to do with the particular conditions that the EU noise regs are measured under.
Basically without it the car fails its type approval for EU noise emission.
s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: Like We Care s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Quote from: "Comer"Oh b*gger. I would be interested but I've got an Apexi and I'm in the process of getting another stock elbow from Big'un after butchering my first one.
I need a complete stock elbow for any warranty claims!
I had cut the stock elbow in half (at the bend) to try and direct some air towards the Apexi, no idea on whether it works though.
I'd give this up as a bad job now s:( :( s:(
The pipe that the elbow plugs into is fed from behind the battery, and is in no way under pressure, so there won't be any air flowing through it no matter how fast you are going. The best wat to get cold air to the a'Pexi is to scoop it from under the car - I'm sure a little butchering of the nappy and the use of a bit of aluminium should produce a low-profile scoop under the car to redirect some of the airflow into the right area of the engine bay.
I would love to have one.
Count me on, please. s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "SteveJ"Quote from: "GSB"so whats the restriction in the elbow above for?
the restriction is there to remove the noise that we are trying to achieve
Thats interesting... Although I fail to see how it works. Gonna have to get those fluid dynamics books out again...
Go on you've convinced me. Put me down for a shiny one.
RaGE
OK, as I am being pestered also. I would jump at it, but need answers to the following questions.
a) do I actually really need to tell the insurance rip off people
b) how do I phrase such a phone call as to not be ripped of for changing a pipe.
c) will it effect warranty etc (remember my car may be going back in two years)
Quote from: "cstevens"a) do I actually really need to tell the insurance rip off people
b) how do I phrase such a phone call as to not be ripped of for changing a pipe.
c) will it effect warranty etc (remember my car may be going back in two years)
a) Technically yes.
b) There's no way you could possibly phrase it that wouldn't confuse them. Your best bet would be not to tell them, to be honest. Not that I could ever advocate that.
c) Only if you leave it on (to me, the install looks totally reverisble.. I'm sure Mark will confirm though..)
Quote from: "cstevens"a) do I actually really need to tell the insurance rip off people
b) how do I phrase such a phone call as to not be ripped of for changing a pipe.
c) will it effect warranty etc (remember my car may be going back in two years)
a) Almost certainly
b) Mine have trouble with an exhaust, god knows how they'd understand something as subtle as this.
c) Yes it will.
I would phrase it as a replacement pipe for the airbox. They will ask you is it performance enhancing? it's not proven any way, they will ask yoiu if its an induction kit, it's not.
Is it reversible, yes 10 mins on 10 mins off. Though should you go for the unpolished and paint it they won't even notice it.
In all honesty Toyota techs work on so few roadsters I'd be amazed if they notice it's not stock. It won't be covered in stickers or anything.
OK, so I say its a new pipe thats a bit bigger, but is there just to ensure that the engine is nice a cool so its a "safety feature" s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I will get back to you - to be honest if it sounds great, then I want it!
i will still have one but not polished, just plain.
Go on, put me down for an unpolished one.
God help me, it'll be slammed with neon next... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I will definetly take one as well. s8) 8) s8) - Unpolished if there is a choice.
Just a thought. The stock intake is plastic and probably does not conduct heat as much as a metal intake section.
Would this mean that the air fed out from the metal intake (to the engine) will be warmer (than with the stock set up)during warmer weather but colder during the colder months?
It may explain why my car (with Apexi) has a bit of hesitancy on a very warm day.
metal will conduct heat more than plastic agreed,
Fortunately where it sits is shielded from the engine by existting heatshields, so it will only get warm due to ambient heat.
Even after a serious thrash, it's not even warm.
I have discussed ceramic coating but for the very minimal gains it's not been cost effective yet. Should I have an exhaust done at some point I'll probably stick it in to be done as well just to see though
Mark, I'm up for an unpolished one, thanks s:D :D s:D
Mark when are you looking to get these babies manufactured s:?: :?: s:?:
As soon as I have posted final prices. Awaiting a response tommorow.
I'll ask for payments and place the order.
Hopefully the next couple of weeks, but tommorow should clarify the timescales as well.
Quote from: "markiii"I think it would probably work with the Apexi, if someone can post a good pic of the APexi filter location I'll take a look, possible extra Market, hmmn
Mark, bit late now, but dunno if this is any good (very similar to sean's pic)
http://www.btinternet.com/~chris.roy/mods/apexi.jpg
Modifying the nappy for a scoop underneath sounds like a good idea, as long as suitable fixing points can be found.
Regards the apexi, there was talk at mids meet on the weekend about a way to adapt the apexi's position into that of the ppe - any thoughts?
edit: you can also check here for other pics now:
http://www.mr2roc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=2644
if you want cold air to the apexi you could I suppose take one of these pipes and cut it down.
ref converting the Apexi to a PPE design.
heres how to canibalise the stock airbox (It's harder than it looks) but tis should be easier with teh Apexi
m http://www.pelicanracing.com/prd.intake.htm (http://www.pelicanracing.com/prd.intake.htm) m
Hi to all ,first time posting, I notice that many members are knowledgeable about there cars.Are the air inlet pipes available?
I'd like to put one on mine,shiny I think.This will be my first mod.
If they are available please let me know how to pay.
Nigel(loadswine)
Quote from: "loadswine"Hi to all ,first time posting, I notice that many members are knowledgeable about there cars.Are the air inlet pipes available?
I'd like to put one on mine,shiny I think.This will be my first mod.
If they are available please let me know how to pay.
Nigel(loadswine)
I think you may have already missed this group buy as the order has already been placed.
If it is too late you may be able buy mine when it arrives as it may not be of any use with the turbo intake, will know when the kits in and runnig (about two weeks ish)
thanks Perry, thats fine,would be happy to do that if you can't use it.
Nigel
okey dokey :-) :-) :-)
I seem to have missed out on this GB.
Only found it tonight ......... so if anyone is willing to sell me there one.......... just PM me with the details.
thanks
Puggman
Hello folks
I also have missed out on this GB, if anyone out there has a 'spare' pipe I would be most obliged (just PM me with payment rqequirements).
Is there any chance of extending the GB or running a 2nd one ??
Greg s:) :) s:) s:) :) s:)
Look at the for sale section lads as Mark has ordered some spares.
Quote from: "markiii"Guys,
I orderd a few spares as I figured there would be a demand later on as well.
detailes to follow.
m http://www.mr2roc.org/forum/viewtopic.p ... 4&start=25 (http://www.mr2roc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2494&start=25) m
Here's the findings of one of the Spyderchat guys on his DIY version of our inlet duct. Thought it may be of interest to those of us who've got one on order. s:P :P s:P
After reading quite a discussion about air-inlet pipe options on the British MR2 Roadster forum I decided to try bypassing the venturi pipe, leading into the air filter box. I simply replaced that curved black plastic venturi-shaped tube, leading into the air-filter box with 3" flexible clothes dryer hose. `glad I did.
A half-dozen "poor-man's dyno" runs verified that the time has dropped 0.18 seconds from an average of 8.17 seconds to 7.99 seconds!
Furthermore, these new times were recorded with a Full tank; my records show that the previous times were recorded with 1/4 tank of gas. So, call it a 0.2 second improvement, which, I think, IS significant.
What's more, I could easily feel the difference ... it was definitely pulling quite noticeably stronger from 5,500 - 6,500 rpm. The rest of the range felt more torquey, too. And, although 6,500 - 7,000 rpm is not included in the "poor-man's dyno" run, mine now pulled just as strongly to the redline fuel cutout; it used to die noticeably after 6,500 rpm. So, that venturi pipe definitely costs some horsepower (in my mind) ... especially since these improvements were recorded with a showroom stock car (with no low-restriction muffler, header or cpu-chip diddling).
Last, but not least (?), the sound was quieter and deeper.
The above times were recorded at 35 degrees with a showroom stock 2003 (with ~35 pounds removed from no spare, jack kit or plastic tire cover). These times were recorded with the previous CAI (also 3" flexible clothes-dryer hose) from the left-side body vent to the stock inlet, below and in front of the fuse box.
These were, no doubt, the cheapest horsepower I'll get out of the beast!
Quote from: "RUSTY"I simply replaced that curved black plastic venturi-shaped tube, leading into the air-filter box with 3" flexible clothes dryer hose. `
Now that brings an interesting point - I would've thought that the seal would need to be tight to get any effect, and would've thought that kinda pipe would be to big...
Leaving aside the fact that they may or may not work, I'm guessing that you should be able to achieve something similar by running that hosing directly from the side vents - maybe to a filter in the ppe position!
I suspect that running a feed from under the car somehow will be the way to go, but would need to check out mounting locations... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I can't see the tapered elbow that you suggest removing at the start of this post. I have a 2000 model. Please help!
it's directly underneath teh left hand rear light
Cheers
Feel a little stupid, but:
1. How do I remove it?
2. Should I remove it?
to remove it just pull, it will feel tight but if you jigle it a bit it will come free at both ends.
Should you remove it?
well only you can decide afetr reading this thread.
the good news is that if you do and change your mind, it just goes back in again.
or I could sell you an inlet pipe :-) :-) :-)
Quote from: "markiii"If the noise is all you are after there is a FREE yes FREE way of obtaining this. Feeding into the stock airbox is a tapered elbow shaped plastic tube. Remove this and marvel at your induction roar.
I' now have one of the H&S's duct, but thanks for this tip! The car really roars! The psychological effect is tremendous, it feels two times faster! s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Firstly, apologies for a dumb question.
If you do the free mod, and remove the pipe, what happens to the air that should have been going through it? Am i not understanding something here?
The air from the side of the car is sucked in through the vent, rather than pushed in.
So, by removing that pipe, what happens is the air fed into your engine is sucked in from the engine bay, rather from the side of the car.
suggesting a drop in power i guess? with the warm air and all?
Well it should reduce the power, but dunno if you'd actually notice it.