I've had a google around in the past, and it seems the camry was never a popular engine to buy performance parts for, I can't see why...... s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
But I was wondering, of those here that have experience with 1MZ's/V6's or engines in general, what would you say my options are for tweaking the power? I'm not looking at buying in the next few months, and I don't want to do anything drastic like supercharging (save that for a year or two, eh s;) ;) s;) ).
What I've been thinking of is work such as:
- Exhaust manifolds. From what I've seen of the 1MZ manifolds, they don't seem to flow particularly well. I believe there's some knocking about on the t'interwebs (imported from Oz or America), but no idea what quality will be like.
- Mark mentioned the possibility of boring out the throttle body, and that I could get some reasonable gains out of this because of the engine size. Thoughts?
- Another alternative I've been thinking of is seeing if I can get a piggyback ECU or something and getting the car re-mapped. My thoughts being, what with the H&S exhaust, de-catted system and head work, a remap could improve things quite nicely. But I don't know if that's actually the case or just wishful thinking?
What do you guys think on the above, and what would you do if the engine was in your car?
I'd gocams and ITBS
the elise huys reckon they can get 30bhp out of a 1.8 with ITBs
so on a 3.0 V6 40 to 50bhp shouldn;t be unobtainable
I think you would need a piggy back ECU or similar with a good mapping session to get the best out of those mods. Go for it mate. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Unfortunately manifolds don't give a big return for the money they would cost. I think people have spent upwards of £600 just on the manifolds at least. Only a few horses extra, plus there is the problem of clearance, so ebay ones from the States may not fit a Roadster. I understand cams may give a bit, but hardly anyone seems to have done this so far. Standalone ecus can flatten out the torque curve and improve driveability, but budget for at least £1000 for the unit, fitting and mapping. I think Tony ( 4V6 on TwoBrutal) has some possible developments in the pipeline involving cams etc, which sound promising.
Other than that, you've had the heads ported and a decent merge on the Y pipe, so not a lot of scope for cheap upgrades.
If you go SC, you'll probably need a standalone for that, plus injectors. The results should be pretty impressive though, around a very reliable 300 horses with a wonderful torque curve to match. You won't want to go much higher on stock internals with the 1MZ though and you might be pushing the limits of the gearbox with any more as well.
ITBs would be great if you could do it and reasonably priced for the possible gains. Not to mention the noise which would be , well ,massive! s8) 8) s8)
So by ITBs, do you mean boring out the existing one to allow more air through, or do you mean literally creating individual throttle bodies for each cylinder? Would that not require quite a bit of work to do?
I've always been of the impression a ECU and mapping session would cost circa £1k in the first place, so if I ever come in to money I may consider that as an option!
6 individual throttle bodies 1 for each cylinder
you can buy the parts from various places but you will need to fabricate a manifold plate and linkages
I'm guessing it could be done for a few hundred.
Is that a wildly optimistic guess, or an actual figure of what it's cost people over at the Elise forums? s:D :D s:D
I would've thought ITBs would be quite difficult to fit like, or it is a case of sticking one at the end of each pipe on the manifold?
in principle you bolt the TB direct to the head in place of teh inlet manifold
in practice you will nee a plate that adapts between teh ITB fitting and the head
it doesn't have to be expensive, lots of people use bike throttle bodies one per cylinder , but it depends on how cheap you can get parts, how much fabrication you can do, or wether you go turnkey e.t.c
you'd need to research teh option first
actually that said I;d speak to Chris aka LimeyMK1 over on 2Brutal
he was/is planning teh same on a 1MZ into a MK1 and may well have done much of teh hard work
I know I'm asking you to spoon feed, but where's the best place to learn? I read the wiki page on throttle bodies which touches on ITBs, and yeah, they make sense. But where can I find out what I need to do to get them fitted?
Nige, where's all the V6 Roadster information you have come from, is it SpyderChat?
/Just seen your last post, I'll see if I can grab hold of him, cheers!
think of it as the same theory as replacing a single carb with triple webbers per bank :-) :-) :-)
m http://www.jenvey.co.uk/ (http://www.jenvey.co.uk/) m for teh more expensive turnkey options, but it should help as a staring point
m http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Hond ... _13755.htm (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Honda-s2000-with-ITBs-Got_13755.htm) m
though obviously you will need an air filter in teh real world, you'd need to either fabircat an airbox to feed them so that you coudl retain your existing AFM or convert to MAP with an ECU capable of running it and then run individual sock filters
I seem to remeber talking to Nic and he'd found a site whihc can supply all of teh parts to custom build your own for far less than Jenvey
Extrudabody was the place I think. I think Limey was using GSX-R750 bike throttles, but I seem to remember once the flanges and fittings were specialist fabricated, it worked out about £850 or something like that.
Best place for V6 research is TwoBrutal.
£200 is very optimistic. Also to get the most out of ITBs you'd need a after market ECU anyway.
If you really want to do stuff with it get an ECU first, that way you'll be getting the best out any mods you do further down the line.
Best bang-for-buck should be a supercharger: Paul Woods and I were chatting about this a few weeks ago, and he reckons there will be a shaft-driven Rotrex available in the not-too-distant future.... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I'm fitting a Megasquirt 3 to my 1MZ soon, too...as mentioned, you'll need a piggyback for FI, but a FSE boost-valve will help immensely with a SC prior to going standalone/ piggyback.......
The 1MZ has the "wrong" piston ring arrangement for boost, so the pistons will need uprating to Arias prior to S/C'ing.
Apparently the rods are up to the job, running lowish boost (5-7psi)?
This engine has some serious potential:may require a few bucks outlay, like....but IMHO, S/C is gonna be a cheaper route than a tuned-NA setup: that was certainly the case with the 4AGE's, anyway.......! s:D :D s:D
SC is always best. BUT.....
What are you doing thinking of engine mods when you car is still on off roader. Get some springs in. Lol, I think Jason has some he could sell you.
To be fair, SC may be the way to go, I believe the shaft one Greg's on about is the one I discussed with Paul, which was from a Scion if I'm correct?
Quote from: "custardavenger"What are you doing thinking of engine mods when you car is still on off roader. Get some springs in. Lol, I think Jason has some he could sell you.
Ha, this is true! I wouldn't be looking at any power mods until the new year at least, was just sort of spit balling ideas and I had some spare time (for once) to create a thread! I've actually PM'd Jase with an offer, but I don't think he's keen on it due to his lack of reply s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Nigel had a supercharger for sale as well, a brand new one. Don't know if that is still available
Phil
Alot of effort to fit it though Phil. Rotrex would be the easier option.
Quote from: "custardavenger"Alot of effort to fit it though Phil. Rotrex would be the easier option.
I don't think Wills would be doing it himself, given the closeness of a certain V6 swapperer s;-) ;-) s;-)
Phil
I had guessed that. Rotrex is still easier. To fit the other one you'd need a pretty serious manifold ( i'm not sure whether you can buy one). There will also (I think) be clearance issues with the engine cover.
Rotrex can be put low in the engine bay and then piped to the stock manifold. and there is plenty of room round the back of the engine for that.
Whilst that's true, I think the shaft based SCer favoured due to the space in the engine bay and location of the charger s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "custardavenger"£200 is very optimistic. Also to get the most out of ITBs you'd need a after market ECU anyway.
If you really want to do stuff with it get an ECU first, that way you'll be getting the best out any mods you do further down the line.
who said £200 I saida a few hundred :-) :-) :-)
£850 is a bit different to £300 tho s;) ;) s;)
a few hundred is anything less than 1K in my book
if i meant 200 thats what i would have said
the v6 is about the noise to mw so would be itbs any day
A few to me is 3 s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Well I've got a fair bit of time to research it all, for now it's all food for thought!
Quote from: "markiii"a few hundred is anything less than 1K in my book
if i meant 200 thats what i would have said
the v6 is about the noise to mw so would be itbs any day
Didn't realise you could put ITB's onto the 1zz. Ooo if I only knew lol.
you can put them on anything you like with enough time and money
Quote from: "markiii"you can put them on anything you like with enough time and money
Ahh so no direct bolt on kit.
They are both shaft driven Will.
This is the Eaton we're talking about.
l viewtopic.php?f=37&t=26657 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=26657) l
Would normally be situated on top of the engine.
Rotrex
m http://www.rotrex.com/index1.htm (http://www.rotrex.com/index1.htm) m
Normally mounted lower on the engine, simillar to the an alternator.
I think that if you lose the aircon compressor, there will be some room for a Rotrex, not sure exactly how much room, but it is very tight, and unlike a 1zz, you haven't got the option of mounting anything on the other side of the engine.
On the face of it, the eaiest thing would have actually been to mount an Eaton type charger sited in the vee on a custom manifold for that application. You would dispense with the stock plenum that way, which would free up a fair bit of space as part of the conversion. Biggest drawback to that route is the fact that, to date, nobody has actually produced that essential manifold item to bolt the charger to. There has been talk of one chap over on TB making some for this, but the first one has yet to happen. In theory , not terribly complex, just requires good fabrication skills.
The charger that is in the pipeline , as I understand it, is a Vortech charger, a bit like a Rotrex, only not quite as slick, but should be effective. This will be driven via a shaft from the pulley area of the engine with the charger itself on the intake side, where there is a relatively large amount of room. This can easily be intercooled as well. Again, we shall see how this pans out, as there are only a few of us V6 Roadster owners right now, but our application will be developed from the Mk2 and Mk1 applications that will probably get it first.
If you think about it, it should be one of the cheaper ways to get a fairly reliable 300 horses or so, for a total conversion outlay of well under 10 grand. We have yet to see how much it will be, but I guess 2 or 3 grand all in ,over the top of a V6 conversion wouldn't be too far off.