Hi,
On a mellow afternoon I noticed that my 2001 Mk3 1ZZ-FE engine started making a ticking / pinging sound that comes from the right side of the engine. It is not extremely loud but definately audible when the music is off, louder when driving past a wall. It sounds like pinging / ticking with a slight metallic / jewellery tone. The ticks are constant and increases with the RPMs (i.e. no irregularity) and occurs after around 2300rpm all the way up to the redline, and only when I apply hard throttle (i.e. engine load). Not audible when the engine is cold. Also not audible when car is idling and revving the engine.
There are no other symptoms - power delivery fine, oil consumption fine, fuel consumption fine, no MIL light, etc.
There is a little bit of oil leaking from a small area just 2cm to the left of the timing chain tensioner cover (brown oval shaped cover with 2 bolts) but not actually from the cover - just left of it. Not sure if this is related or not.
First suspected timing problem. Timing was checked, all OK there. Took it to Toyota dealer who claimed it was the exhaust that was making the sound. Exhaust had some aftermarket silencer instead of the main cat. I checked the pre-cats and noticed one collapsed. Gutted both and replaced the main cat with a downpipe. Ticking sound is still there, so problem lies elsewhere.
Any ideas? Don't want to open / take out the engine if not necessary.
Could this be a serious problem? The noise although not that loud, is quite disturbing.
Could it be normal engine / VVT sound that just got amplified after the pre-cats started to become hollow / gutted?
Many thanks in advance.
When you said the pre cat had died my heart sank. Maybe engine on its way out, check out posts by The Lum sounds like similar issue. How long ago did you find the dead pre cat?
it can do this id the oild isn;t thick enough what oil are you running?
Have a look here as well
l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=27398 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=27398) l
Using Total 15W40 oil. Pretty sure the consumption is fine however with this horrible dipstick it makes reading hard...
Opened and inspected the pre-cats 2 days ago; took the car to an exhaust place the same day to have them gutted and cleaned out. However I have no idea whether any brittle debris actually entered the engine. There was no visible debris on top of the collapsed pre-cat. Since I notice no other problems or symptoms with the engine it leads me to believe the engine may actually be fine; the ticking sound could indicate the contrary or it may be a completely different issue altogether...
at that viscosity I doubt your oil is teh issue then
Could be the cam chain tensioner or something to do with the accessory belt - the idler pulleys can make a similar noise.
Worth checking.
If you look in reference section there is a video clip with noise, it's the very bottom clip:
l viewtopic.php?f=46&t=12491 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=12491) l
Rob.
Thanks for the replies & links so far. From the video I would say the sound is different.
It sounds like when you tick fast with your nail on the metal side cover of your desktop PC. Definately a constant rhythmic ticking that correlates exactly to the engine rpm.
Could cat debris stuck in the silencer make this noise? Very difficult to distinguish if the sound is coming from the engine side or the silencer. As the noise only appears when the engine is under load (full throttle and in gear), I'd have to put the car on a dyno to have any chance of figuring this out...
sounds like noisy valves or tappets to me
or big ends s:( :( s:( Have you had a compression test done?
Quote from: "muffdan"or big ends s:( :( s:( Have you had a compression test done?
indeed, can you tell if teh noise comes from teh camcover are or teh bottom of teh engine area?
At first glance I would say tappets but you can usually hear this at tickover and it just follows the rev pattern of the engine.
You may not hear big ends at tickover as they tend to knock (not tick) under load.
A possibility is 'pinking', the timing is off or you are using a fuel with too low an octane for the ecu. This is a bit old fashioned but someone with more recent engine management systems knowledge may want to comment.
If it was pinking the ECU would decect the knock and throw a CEL
I reckon its gearbox bearings.
Quote from: "life of bryan"I reckon its gearbox bearings.
I'd expect more of a whine, but possible
To isolate the noise you will have to use a det can ...... Dead easy to make.... get some fairly rigid tubing of around 8mm id. A can of beans or similar and punch a hole in the bottom and push the tubing through 1/2" at the other end of the hose put an 8mm bolt and tie rap it on. You then have an engine stethoscope. Simply place the bolt on any metallic part and shove the can over your ears....Simples
Or you could go high tech and butcher a hearing aid & add a wireless transmitter of course...!
Cheers
Russ
do you empty the beans?
Quote from: "russcannell"To isolate the noise you will have to use a det can ...... Dead easy to make.... get some fairly rigid tubing of around 8mm id. A can of beans or similar and punch a hole in the bottom and push the tubing through 1/2" at the other end of the hose put an 8mm bolt and tie rap it on. You then have an engine stethoscope. Simply place the bolt on any metallic part and shove the can over your ears
Alternatively, you could buy a mechanics stethoscope from Machine Mart for £6.89, or put your ear to a long screwdriver s:scared: :scared: s:scared: (I've not personally done this) to get the same result.
Quote from: "markiii"do you empty the beans?
No Mark....You insert the beans individually into your aural cavities...That way the ticking noise magically disappears.. s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Quote from: "russcannell"Quote from: "markiii"do you empty the beans?
No Mark....You insert the beans individually into your aural cavities...That way the ticking noise magically disappears.. s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Ah, that famous yorkshire soh.
Yesterday I had a friend drove the car whilst I was leaning over the back (boot cover removed) trying to locate the sound.
From the top I could not hear it really, but I think the sound is coming from the bottom right area of the engine. As if the sound escapes past the rear right wheel.
Definately a constant rhythm tick with a metallic sound that goes up as revs goes up and only when flooring the accel pedal.
Also checked the area on the side of the motor where some tensioners are, while accelerating hard, and didn't notice anything loose. Sound also didn't come from there. All heat shields etc. are all also fine (i.e. not loose).
I've isolated the source of the little oil leak to just left / under the timing chain pully cover. Not sure if that's related. Also can't say if the oil leak started when the ticking noise started, or later or earlier. Engine was a bit dirty, only steamcleaned it a few days ago.
Maybe rod bearings?
Are you sure you've not got a manifold leak, that will tick certainly under load, look for black marks around the cat to manifold joint also manifold to head.
The oil leak you are talking about is a common problem, sounds like it needs a new O ring and re-seal, normally when you talk about orientation you should be standing at the back of the car looking at the engine so therefore it's on the right - helps stops causing confusion s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Rob.
Quote from: "Mk3-MR2"Yesterday I had a friend drove the car whilst I was leaning over the back (boot cover removed) trying to locate the sound.
From the top I could not hear it really, but I think the sound is coming from the bottom right area of the engine. As if the sound escapes past the rear right wheel.
Definately a constant rhythm tick with a metallic sound that goes up as revs goes up and only when flooring the accel pedal.
Also checked the area on the side of the motor where some tensioners are, while accelerating hard, and didn't notice anything loose. Sound also didn't come from there. All heat shields etc. are all also fine (i.e. not loose).
I've isolated the source of the little oil leak to just left / under the timing chain pully cover. Not sure if that's related. Also can't say if the oil leak started when the ticking noise started, or later or earlier. Engine was a bit dirty, only steamcleaned it a few days ago.
Maybe rod bearings?
I had a simlar sound on my car, turned out to be the inner heat shield on the cat exhaust making the noise. Really sounds like the engine is about to go, put a bit of weld in or just smash it off.
Tried recording the ticking sound but my cellphone's frequency response is just not good enough to pick up the sound.
It does seem as if the sound is also there when idling & revving (out of gear), but not as loud and it does not have a real consistant "tick" to it then - it just sort of sounds metallic and "generic" - hardly noticable. Only when in gear and accelerating and applying hard throttle, does the metallic sound transform to a rhythmic sound which ticks around as fast as the engine rpm.
Could it be some rod that just spins a bit loose on one end, due to wasted bearing(s), and then the wasted bearing(s) make the ticking sound when in gear & under load?
Added some photos of the small oil leak. And the horrible to read oil dipstick, which never seems to have a clear line where the oil starts, and varies up to 1cm as well, even when always parked level and same engine temperature & in-town trip!
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/charl42/d6e196d6.jpg)
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/charl42/1a9966e6.jpg)
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/charl42/5cf1cba6.jpg)
Since the weekend there is another sound now: very loud, coming from the bottom of the engine, sounds like a hollow steel cooking pot being scraped all around the inside wall with a metal stick like a spoon. Also sounds "higher" when revving up. Definately a rotational hollow sound. Does this both when idling and driving.
Ticking sound is still there, same symptoms as before, and it actually does occur A LITTLE when revving up in neutral as well.
Oil leak as pictured got maybe a little worse, maybe 4 drops of oil for every 50km driven.
No idea whether above 3 issues are maybe all related or not.
Fuel consumption, performance, gearshifing etc. are all still fine.
Oil level & quality fine. No idea whether the engine ran dry during previous ownerships.
Rod bearing / crank / rods?
Header gasket?
S-belt / timing chain tensioners or pulleys?
Gearbox?
Exhaust leak? (blocked the exhaust exit but sounds remain unchanged)
Quote from: "FGRob"If you look in reference section there is a video clip with noise, it's the very bottom clip:
l viewtopic.php?f=46&t=12491 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=12491) l
Rob.
As posted before, I think the sound is different... and my VIN is JTDFR320000039668 - according to the pages in the first two links there, does than mean my one was produced AFTER the affected Production Change Effective VINs?
Quote from: "Mk3-MR2"Quote from: "FGRob"If you look in reference section there is a video clip with noise, it's the very bottom clip:
l viewtopic.php?f=46&t=12491 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=12491) l
Rob.
As posted before, I think the sound is different... and my VIN is JTDFR320000039668 - according to the pages in the first two links there, does than mean my one was produced AFTER the affected Production Change Effective VINs?
I wouldn't post your vin online lol.
Quote from: "Ilogik"Quote from: "Mk3-MR2"Quote from: "FGRob"If you look in reference section there is a video clip with noise, it's the very bottom clip:
l viewtopic.php?f=46&t=12491 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=12491) l
Rob.
As posted before, I think the sound is different... and my VIN is JTDFR320000039668 - according to the pages in the first two links there, does than mean my one was produced AFTER the affected Production Change Effective VINs?
I wouldn't post your vin online lol.
I wouldn't copy it so the poster cant edit it either.
Quote from: "life of bryan"Quote from: "Ilogik"Quote from: "Mk3-MR2"As posted before, I think the sound is different... and my VIN is - according to the pages in the first two links there, does than mean my one was produced AFTER the affected Production Change Effective VINs?
I wouldn't post your vin online lol.
I wouldn't copy it so the poster cant edit it either.
you just did s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Lol s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "markiii"Quote from: "life of bryan"Quote from: "Ilogik"I wouldn't post your vin online lol.
I wouldn't copy it so the poster cant edit it either.
you just did s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I know,I was trying to be humorous.
I killed 1 engine and 1 tranny and I can say that I am 99% sure that this is timing chain tensioner.
Quote from: "Muniek"I killed 1 engine and 1 tranny and I can say that I am 99% sure that this is timing chain tensioner.
I've killed 5 engines and 2 transmissions and I can't say for sure s:) :) s:)
seriously though I hope it is the tensioner, but if you said the sound wasn't coming from that part of the engine, then I can't see it being that.
UPDATE 2010-01-27:
Car went in to Toyota Service Center. The new loud hollow noise was the tensioner pulley bearing that was going. Hasn't seized yet, but was probably about to do so soon. They also replaced the tensioner assembly.
The hollow noise is now gone but the original ticking sound is still there s:? :? s:?
So the two actually had nothing to do with each other.
- Oil leak: they could not determine the source since someone was so clever to wash the car (engine too) before going in for the service. So all oil evidence gone. But I showed them where it is and it looks like the one corner of the Top gasket is leaking a bit.
- Timing chain tensioner: I instructed them to specifically look at this. Apparently the tension seems fine because it employs "auto-tensioning".
As said, the original ticking sound is still there. I have actually thought of the exact way to describe the sound: exactly like that metalling pinking from old beetle engines (obviously just a bit softer). Gets louder as I proportionally floor the accelerator pedal. Very slight presence when engine is revved in idle (but not enough for me to determine exactly where the sound comes from). Sound comes definately from the bottom or bottom corner from the engine (bay) somewhere. When leaning over the back with the top down, and someone else driving, and accelerating, I cannot even hear it at all with my head over the top of the screaming engine. However, my driver hears it cleary echoing from rights-side out underneath the car. Sounds like a beetle. And only happens when the engine is warmed up. Performance & fuel consumption etc. all fine. Tried feeling air escaping from the exhaust when revving & idling. Not really felt anything. Holding my hand around the exhaust is also a bit difficult when accelerating... need to find a dyno maybe.
Any of these clues give a hint to anyone?
Did Toyota not say something about the noise?
any new news about the ticking sound?
mine does the same (sounds like pinking apparently).
after 600 miles the CEL came on, but waiting on delivery of a code reader to check it out.
Took the car to a dyno and exhaust specialist, both claim it is the exhaust making the ticking / zinging noise, due to either something loose somewhere, a leak, or a piece of broken cat stuck somewhere in the pipe or silencer. Dyno power run and CO tests all confirm engine output is 100% fine.
I'll likely leave it as it is, since the noise is nothing serious, merely annoying...
take the heat shield off from the bottom of the cat even though it looks firmly secure it can still cause the rattle as i found out just pull it off i bet that is the rattle.
Quote from: "diddy"take the heat shield off from the bottom of the cat even though it looks firmly secure it can still cause the rattle as i found out just pull it off i bet that is the rattle.
Hi diddy, I'm not sure exactly which heat shield you mean. There are shields above the pre-cats (which I removed), and around them (which are still there but look quite secure). There's not really any shields below except underneath the exhaust pipe which is already away from the cats. The exhaust dealer did weld them with additional welding secure, but the noise is still there.
Could you maybe post a photo?
l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15561&p=190859&hilit=rattle+cat+rattle#p190859 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15561&p=190859&hilit=rattle+cat+rattle#p190859) l
Quote from: "diddy"http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15561&p=190859&hilit=rattle+cat+rattle#p190859
Great stuff, thanks diddy, it does look like this shield is the problem, going to try some clips and McGyvers tricks to sort it out!
you should be able to just pull it off i did.
Hi,
I have a MR2 2001 roadster, only bought 3 weeks ago, still under garage warranty...2 problems: 1st, ticking/tapping noise coming from engine, it is pretty constant, I have read simular on here, but not sure of how to pin point it, how do I check if it is the tensioner belt?, problem is to take it back to the garage it is over 300 miles away and the guy is saying that it may be wear and tear, and he may well not see it as a important problem, ummm it is to me..2nd, when I put the car in reverse and nearly come off the clutch with usual revs, it is making a strange grinding noise, the only way I could describe a simular noise, is when you have a car already running in idle, but then you accidentally turn the ignition key again and it makes an awful noise...the garage have said if I can identify the problems and they are simple they will pay for them to be repaired locally, but I took the car to a local garage and the guy said he could not identify the noise without looking deeper and the garage would not pay for this..so basically I'm hoping to get some ideas..go back to my wonderful local garage, ask them to exhaust the common mr2 possibilities and hopefully get it all done without having to drive 600 miles, with the possibility of the garage putting it down to wear and tear and if it is not effecting the car performance he said he would not repair it at this time, but then if it developed into a problem he would then want the car back...personally dont think driving it that far is a good idea with these problems...REALLY SAD AT THE MOMENT AS I LOVE MY MR2 SO MUCH...thank you lots Mia x
How many miles on the car?
Call the garage, tell them you are bringing it back and they either fix it or refund you, wear and tear does not happen in 3 weeks.
Car is not fit for purpose so involve trading standards if need be.
Hi, thank you both for getting back to me..the car had originally when bought 3 weeks ago done 67, 000, I have done 500 miles since them, this includes my 300 mile drive home...
The guy has already said, that he will send it to his mechanic guy, but if it comes back as just noise and it is not effecting the performance he will give it me back and see if it developes into anything..think I need to talk to trading standards...it will cost me £80 in petrol to take it back to him, round trip...ummmmm so sad....thanks Mia x
Where are you and where is the garage?
Hi,
I am in Cornwall, garage is in the Midlands..Mia.
Two things, you need to check the oil level, don't know how many miles you do each day but if it's quite a few then check it every day for a bit. There is only a big problem if the level is going down. Secondly, does the noise get worse as you rev the engine?
Hi, thanks for the reply...The oil was checked today and an extra litre put in, not an easy level to read, they put it 5w/30, this was the suggested oil to use, and yes the ticking noise does get worse...just to elaborate, its not really load, just an annoying ticking, like someone tapping a finger on a metal surface...it is just so frustrating as I need to know the problems for when I take it back to the garage as I have a feeling he wil try and blag me...the way I see it, I am not respinsible for any wear and tear, Ive only had the car 3 weeks and done 500 miles...the reverse noise is really worrying aswell...thanks a milion Mia x
PS...only do a few miles a day..as I bought the car with 12 months MOT etc, full service done prior to sale, I did not think to check the oil level so Im not sure how much it has used in 3 weeks, thanks Mia x
Don't get too alarmed but you need to mention to the garage you bought it from that it has already used a litre of oil in 500 miles (just in case, there may be no problem but this is just insurance).
The gear box sound is worrying as there is quite a common fault of the bearings going in the gearbox which will set you back around £800 to put right.
Hi, have now found out it is the timing chain and either gear box or clutch, so not good. Is being trailered back to the garage at my COST, totally broken hearted...also have been told the MOT certs don't add up as in 2009 it had done less miles than in 2008 ummmmm, does anyone know where I stand, can I just say I don't want it repaired and I want my money back..the guy said at the garage he has to be given the oppurtunity to fix the car...I have made a paper trail with an official letter at the suggestion of consumer net/trading standards, so I am doing it the right way, but all in all I think the car is not good, also found out the tyres and wheels are all on the wrong way, 205/50 on front and horizontal back and 195/ on front and horizontal back, so all round the wrong way, big small...PLEASE HELP...THANKS X
Talk to your local citizens advice buro and the local trading standards office. I think the car was sold to you 'not fit for purpose' but they may have to be given the opportunity to put the problems right. May be better legal advice on here. Edit (sorry, didn't realise you'd already done some of that). The MOT cert milage thing is very dodgy and a possible criminal offence unless the speedo has been changed. Did you mention this to the trading standards people? Threaten legal action and go for the money back is the first thing (use the mot miles thing as a key argument, don't let them get their hands back on the certificate though).
Hi, thank you for taking the time to reply and help me, I really appreciate it..I have done the mentioned things inc talk to solicitor, cit advice and trading standards, even spoken to the MOT test garage and he has agreed to help me as it is a new owner and he thinks something dodgey may of gone on in the past, getting a paper trail, and lots of photos and video footage of things..car going back to garage on a trailer tomorrow, going into their garage on Monday, so will have a very anxious weekend, and a fingers crossed week, my only worry is he will try to pin the chain stretching on wear and tear and the clutch or gear box problem too...we will see, thanks a million Mia x
Quote from: "nelix"Call the garage, tell them you are bringing it back and they either fix it or refund you, wear and tear does not happen in 3 weeks.
Car is not fit for purpose so involve trading standards if need be.
This is the starting line, the car is supposed to work. Good luck.
Many months down the line and the noise was always there more or less.
I have now established that it is indeed the timing chain that's had its life, it is stretched / the tensioner for it is also kaput, causing the oil leak as well.
They are replacing everything now.
So yes, this is indeed a common problem with the car, mine now at 170,000 km's.
And another update, now in 2013.
Timing chain was checked, within spec.
Tensioner was fine but replaced anyway.
All chain guides all also okay.
No exhaust or shield issues.
Engine is now using around 1.2l per 1000km. Used 15W40 semi-synth, then High Mileage, now back to 15W40, none made a difference.
Has 180000km on the clock.
Performance 100% fine.
Occasionally hear like the engine is coughing something out, like a single cough, upon start-up. Only very occasionally.
All cats removed ages ago, however one pre-cat showed signs of partial collapse.
Blue-ish smoke after coasting the engine for some distance, and then (only then) accelerating. Lots of it.
Ticking noise still there. Only under hard acceleration between 2000 to 3500 RPM. Sounds like a metal rod being rolled around in a tin can full of large coins. Also has a 70's type Beetle "ring" to it. Seems to be coming from the RH side of the engine.
Rings?
Valve seats?
End bearings?
Don't want to take the top off unless knowing exactly where to look. Already cost an arm and a leg to diagnose the timing chain / tensioner, which were all fine.
If this only happens once the engine is warm, the most likely reason is either carbon build up, pitting or such like which heats up or sshit shit sshit spark plugs which get to hot causing pre-ignition as the carbon or spark plugs act like a glow plug and ignite the fuel before the spark even has a change to ignite the fuel. If it happens the whole time even when cold, then it might be a block oil jet affecting the VVT system or worse yet, big end/crank bearing. It could even come from the clutch if it is only happening under heavy load but happening all the time even when cold. Knock sensor might not pick any of these issues up so might not get any codes.