Is the dial cluster responsible for displaying either MPH or KPH depending on country or some sort of signal from the gearbox?
Ive got a J spec car, and need to replace the dial cluster, now the car must have a converter sitting behind the dash somewhere, if I replace the cluster with one from a UK spec car will I need to remove the converter as well, or is the speed in MPH or KPH coming straight from the gearbox and sent to the cluster?
dont the clocks just have both kmh and mph displayed?
Therefore 70 mph = 112.kph
Input to the speedo is a pulse signal from the ABS ECU, which is cleaned up and drives the meter in the speedo. It would be very difficult to modify this signal so my guess is that it is all the same, just the actual dial markings that are changed. Not the calibration of the markings, but just the presentation. So there should be no problem swapping speedos from any type of car.
That has to be right, for example, my Saab, and I think most other cars I have driven, have mph and kph marked on the same dial. We are one of the few countries to use mph so we have to do that.
Is not as simple as saying read the mph instead of the kph on the dial. the odometer would be clocking up in Kilometers and not miles. What I wanted to find out is how the speedometer and odometer uses the speed pulse to know whether to display in MPH for the UK or KPH in Japan.
I thought that a speed pulse is taken off the gearbox (although cclarke99 says from the ABS ECU) and it will read in KPH, and cars destined for the UK market would have some sort of converter added at the factory, and if they do, then was it built into the dial cluster?
or is the speed pulse controlled by the ECU, and that is how it is changed to show MPH?
I was under the impression that speedo converters are just a simple set of resistors used to slow the pulse down by a certain ratio
If I put a cluster designed for the uk market on my jspec (which i presume has had a converter fitted behind the cluster) then the speed pulse would be converted twice and so showing the wrong speed and odometer readings.
Good point
Yes you're quite right about the odometer and i also see what you mean about the convertor. Fitting this in the input to the speedo presumably modifies the pulse rate so that the odometer runs in miles. This means that the speedo will read in mph, but on the kph scale (so you've got a 200mph speedometer) - is this true? The problem would be that, according to my circuits, the engine management and power steering would then receive the wrong speed signal. if you wanted to fit a UK speedo, then just emove the convertor. I imagine that the conversion at the factory is just done by fitting a different part number speedo, although I notice that there is an additional white/black wire going to earth in the diagram - is this what tells the speedo it is in miles?
Thanks for taking an interest in this ccleark99
My clock reads upto 180 and is in MPH, it doesn't have a KPH scale on it. I dont know if it has had replacement dials and a converter, or a uk standard cluster and no converter or something else.
I haven't seen a UK car on the inside to compare it with, so I don't know how, or if it does, differ.
That's why I don't know whether to buy a cluster off a Jspec or UK car, because I don't know how the conversion to MPH is handled by the car in the first place. I thought it must be in the cluster as first, but could easily be handled through the ECU i suppose.
Not a lot of practical use but you're quite right to be concerned. My Saab manual says: 'Vehicles are fitted with an electronic transducer which measures the rotational speed of the transmission final drive, and converts the info into an electronic signal, which is then sent to the spedo module. The signal is also used as an imput by the ECU and the cruise control ECU, the trip computer and the traction control ECU.' So a much more important bit of kit than I first thought. Sorry that's not Roadster specific.
The speedo in my car ('02 pre-facelift UK model) reads up to 150mph (with equivalent kph scale) and the manual shows the equivalent kph speedo for RHD cars reading up to 240kph (same as 150mph). So yours is not a standard mph or kph unit, although I'm not sure what was sold in the USA. As far as I can make out the speedo merely cleans up the pulses from the ABS unit before passing them onto the power steering and engine ECUs. So all three units will see the same pulse rate for a given wheel speed. For the production car this suggests that the only thing they change is the speedo (which has to have different dials in it as well) as otherwise the other two units would have to be changed to match. So my theory says that a set of UK dials would work fine in your car. It's also interesting that your speedo ended up with a max of 180mph as that does not correspond to the standard scale, which means that either the speedo or odometer will read slightly wrong (speedo 20% low or odometer 20% high or about 10% out for each). Alternatively they would have to modify the circuit inside the instrument assembly that drives the speedo to get that right. How accurate do you think the readings are on your car? The whole thing could be a crafty way to avoid changing the signals that go to the other ECUs by too much. Change the pulse rate to 0.75 of the original value (rather than 0.63) so that the other ECUs are not too confused, recalibrate the speedo by fitting the new dial (which they'd have to do anyway) and accept that the odometer overreads by 20% - but perhaps I'm reading too much into this!
There are a couple of related threads with links to people who make the converters below
m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12896 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12896) m
m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1488 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1488) m
Done some research re above on the excellent w www.toyodiy.com (http://www.toyodiy.com) w site. These are based on '02 model with 5 speed manual
Instruments are different per market
RHD
m http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_E_2002_T ... _8301.html (http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_E_2002_TOYOTA_MR2_ZZW30R-AKMQHW_8301.html) m
Japan
m http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_2002_T ... _8301.html (http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_J_2002_TOYOTA_MR-S_ZZW30-AKMQH_8301.html) m
USA (two types shown?)
m http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_U_2002_T ... _8301.html (http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_U_2002_TOYOTA_MR2_ZZW30L-AKMQHA_8301.html) m
ABS is the same for RHD & Japan, but different for USA
RHD
m http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_E_2002_T ... _8414.html (http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_E_2002_TOYOTA_MR2_ZZW30R-AKMQHW_8414.html) m
Japan
m http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_E_2002_T ... _8414.html (http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_E_2002_TOYOTA_MR2_ZZW30R-AKMQHW_8414.html) m
USA
m http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_U_2002_T ... _8414.html (http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_U_2002_TOYOTA_MR2_ZZW30L-AKMQHA_8414.html) m
Theres only one Engine management unit shown for Japan, three for RHD (South Africa, Hong Kong and the rest) and no less than eight for USA
Thanks again for reply's guys, especially cclarke99
The readings on the gauge are out by about 10MPH, 30MPH is reading 20MPH, and past 30 just sticks until you come to a complete stop, It was like this when I bought It last month from someone on these forums. looking at some of his previous posts, he may have tried to replace dials, because he says in one post, "not to pull the needles off the dial because you will end up 10MPH out and about 200 rpm down".
I think I'll follow your advice and just get a second hand UK spec cluster, and see what is what. I'm a bit worried that the speed limiter will be back on at 112MPH when I remove the converter box, unless this is also determined by the cluster. Thanks also for pointing out the links, they pointed me towards these guys http://www.kmh-mph.co.uk/index.htm which may also be of help to others. If the second hand cluster works, then I will have to see if they will match up the new odometer, with my existing one. and if it doesn't work then I'll have to let them sort it out for me, and rely on a satnav for my speedo to get there.
I might try and remove the converter first though, to see if that is the problem, like in one of the posts you directed me to. It would be great if it was all down to a faulty converter box, I could just fit a new one and save so much hassle in trying to match up odometer readings, which may be the hardest thing to get sorted.
Edit: should I disconnect the battery before working on the cluster, am I likely to set off an airbag?
Just found what I think is the the previous post ( l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=27420 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=27420) l ?), and the fault described there could be easily caused by the convertor. It would be worth disconnecting it to see if it is the problem. Also it may be more prone to noise than the standard setup so make sure that the connections are good. It would be interesting to know how it is connected as that might give a clue as to how the speed limiter function works. I'd disconnect the battery, as working on the instruments you'll be in the firing line if the airbag goes off
Think this may be sorted now, but still need to get someone in front of me to check for certain.
I took the cluster out today, to look for the converter, but I could not see one behind the dash, so I took the cluster inside and took it apart. I was pushing on the needle and found if you push it up slightly, it would move up on its own up to about 60MPh and then stop, push a little more and it would go right to 180MPH, so it was getting stuck between 60 + 70MPH. so I pulled the needle off and put it to 0MPH but it was still doing the same, so I thought I would just put it back together and put it back in the car.
Drove off and had no speedo at all, so I thought I had completely knackered it. so I took off the surround and plastic clear cover and pushed the needle up while the car was ticking over, once I had pushed it past 60MPH it shot up to 150MPH on its own, so I took the needle back off and positioned it at 0MPH again, and now seems to be working ok. drove it round a few 30MPH areas behind other cars and dial was showing 32, drove it up to 60-70 a few times and it didn't get stuck. Ive probably spoke too soon though, and it still way off, i probably got behind a couple of Sunday drivers doing 20 or speeders doing 40, but Ive got my fingers crossed s:D :D s:D .
edit:
we must have been typing at the same time, I did disconnect the battery just in case the air bag went off. I didn't find the converter though, I wonder where they put it?
the link you put up was posted by the guy i bought the car off.
Just a thought, but you should be able to verify the speed via the rev counter / gear you are in if you know the gear ratios. According to my quick reference guide, the MRS has a final dif ratio of 4.312 whether US or Euro.
1st 3.116 (US/Euro)
2nd 1.904 (US / Euro)
3rd 1.392 (US) 1.310 (Euro)
4th 1.013 (US) 0.969 (Euro)
5th 0.815 (US / Euro)
Calculation would have to assume non SMT and stock wheels and tyres.
Haven't got a clue how to work it out though s:D :D s:D
Or, just ask a willing fellow member with an MRS to record what the speedo reads at a particular revolution figure in a particular gear
thanks mrzwei that is very handy to know, unfortunately the rev counter is also out, the guy i bought it from said about 200 revs. Ive just done the calculation and it says
1 2 3 4 5
500 2.5 4.0 5.5 7.6 9.4
1000 4.9 8.0 11.0 15.1 18.8
1500 7.4 12.1 16.5 22.7 28.2
2000 9.8 16.1 22.0 30.2 37.6
2500 12.3 20.1 27.5 37.8 47.0
3000 14.8 24.1 33.0 45.4 56.4
3500 17.2 28.2 38.5 52.9 65.8
4000 19.7 32.2 44.0 60.5 75.2
4500 22.1 36.2 49.5 68.1 84.6
5000 24.6 40.2 55.0 75.6 94.0
5500 27.0 44.3 60.5 83.2 103.4
6000 29.5 48.3 66.0 90.7 112.8
so in 3rd gear at 3000 revs it should be showing about 31MPH if i factor in the 200 revs, I'll try it out later and post back.
Thanks again guys, you've been very helpful with my problem, I just hope it fixed now.
chart looks ok in edit but when posted goes a little funny, but still readable.
Just borrowed a sat nav, reading at 30MPH, speedo is showing 35 -36MPH, 3000rpm in second gear, and at 60MPH on the satnav is 67MPH on speedo, so its looking like is out in the other direction now, but I don't know how accurate the sat nav is. but its not sticking, so that's a bonus.
Best 'control' is still to see what a similar MRS speedo reads at the same revs in the same gear 'cause the same signal might control the rev counter and the speedo so you get the same degree of error.
To eliminate further error, dont do it in third or fourth because of the difference between US and Euro ratios, 5th would be better. I'd do it, but I don't know whether a UK spec Roadster has the same ratios.
The satnav will be very accurate, much better than any speedo. The figures you give suggest that the speedo is scaled about right but overreading by about 6mph, so if you moved the needle back by 6mph it would read perfectly. Can you use the satnav to find out how accurate is the odometer? That will tell you if the pulse input is at the right speed. If the odometer was perfectly accurate you'd need a speedo with a 240mph dial to match. As this would look absurd, perhaps they've used a 180mph dial and then have corrected out the error by moving the speedo needle forward. This isn't a perfect fix as it will overread at low speeds and vice versa. In doing this they may have twisted the spring in the speedo, hence the sticking?
All I would add to that is you still have a problem with the rev counter, so for me, the pragmatic comparison test still stands. How accurate are these things anyway? Supposed to read low so we keep our speed down? Interesting thread.
sorry I forgot to add, the speedo looks like this one, except it does not have the inner gauge readings http://www.thor-racing.co.uk/images/mrs_dials4.jpg and when I had it apart earlier you can see the K of the km/h has been covered over.
The odometer is reading perfectly against my mk 1, I went round the block earlier, and both just ticked over to 1.5 miles as I pulled in through the gates.
I don't know how I could move the needle back though, is isn't spring loaded to move to a fixed position, if the odometer trip button and the 0mph sticky out bit wasn't there, then it would just go round and round, it looks like a small motor, about the size of four 10p pieces stacked. Ill try to push it back a bit when im driving, and see if that works
Edit:
just found this thread http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26796&p=330092&hilit= looks like this car is reading out by 5mph so maybe about right, or we both got a problem
edit
saying that according to this PDF http://www.northwestmr2.com/incoming/dutch/Toyota/mr2%20spyder/Repair%20Information/Repair%20Manual/20%20-%20Body%20Electrical/21%20-%20Combination%20Meter%20-%20Inspection.pdf it shouldn't be that far out
I just bought a 2001 mrs Import the guy before me had a problem with the speedometer not working properly jumping on anf off. He gotthe clocks changed from KPH afer this problem and didnt work, then changed the cable from the gearbox still doesnt work,i bought the car with it not working and the clock needs reset to the MOT's figures in miles when i get it working again. How can i get it working? Can i just replace the speedometer sensor on the gearbox to work? What happens about the conversion do i need to change anything since the clock is changed? Its a 180MPH speedometer.
Should i check the mechanic connected the cable correctly?
I would like your comments from someone who has experienced this.
Thanks again
Robert
Hawick
Scottish Borders
If you read the Previous Posts.. you will understand the Gear Box is not responsible for making the Spedo Work.. The ABS Computer is..
If the Spedo Cluster is not working.. then the Spedo Cluster is the Likely Problem Child.. As the Engine ECU receives it's Spedo Sig FROM the Spedo Cluster.. and if the Engine ECU was not getting that Sig, the Engine would be tossing a Check Engine Lite at you..
Get a Different Spedo Cluster, and Swap it in..
Cap
I thought about this the other day because I was thinking about getting hold of the Neon speedo dials from the GB.
I haven't got the best pic, but my speedo dial goes to 180 (km/h) as per:
(http://www.azekiel.co.uk/MRS/images/interior/wheelcentre.jpg)
I'm assuming this must've been modified in some way to convert it on import as it reads perfectly in mph (about 2mph out from satnav at 70mph). I'm guessing though that it's not a standard type thing in the dash that has been discussed earlier in this thread as it still has the stock kmph dials which obviously aren't the same as the positions of the UK mph dials.
I was wondering whether there was any chance to get this changed without having to make custom dials. I was also hoping to get hold of mph dials so that I can see how fast I'm going in kmph for if I go over to drive in Europe.
Quote from: "Cap"If you read the Previous Posts.. you will understand the Gear Box is not responsible for making the Spedo Work.. The ABS Computer is..
If the Spedo Cluster is not working.. then the Spedo Cluster is the Likely Problem Child.. As the Engine ECU receives it's Spedo Sig FROM the Spedo Cluster.. and if the Engine ECU was not getting that Sig, the Engine would be tossing a Check Engine Lite at you..
Get a Different Spedo Cluster, and Swap it in..
Cap
I dont know what the spedo cluster is? If the dials are new and should work with a new cluster what kind of operation do i need to make to perform the replacement? And how much would it cost roughly?
Thanks again
The speedo cluster is new and the rpm and other dials work why does the MPH dial not work and the trip computer?
The guy i bought the car from said he got the speedo swapped from KPH to MPH but it did not work and the KPH started to go on the blink. He said he paid another £150 for a new cable from the speedo to the gearbox. How does the Speedo work on the MR-S is it really ABS computer?
Hi there,
Rip out the clocks and have a look round back if you haven't done already. The cheap kph/mph convertors that clip onto the wires are known for going on the blink, and any dodgy connections will make the whole lot stop working altogether (As will any loose connectors into the clocks themselves).
It's probably been checked, but its definitely worth a look before paying out any money for parts - only a couple of screws involved.
Quote from: "rabscott2003"He said he paid another £150 for a new cable from the speedo to the gearbox.
There is no Cable from the Gearbox.. The Spedo is Electric and runs like the Tack.
QuoteHow does the Speedo work on the MR-S is it really ABS computer?
No the Electric Signal is Taken from the ABS Computer.. and if the Main ECU ( Engine Ecu ) was not receiving that Speed Sig from the ABS Computer, you'd be getting a Cel..
Cap
I took the dial off and i noticed the wire into the back are ok apart from the set of cables going into the scart like socket on the fuel gauge right hand dial with all the engine light etc one of the wires has been clipped in half and taped its red and white, it has been halfed and insulated tape has been put on each end.
I will take pictures of the back for you.
Also when i disconnect the speedometer side left hand side of the set of 3 the trip computer still works. There is no convertor i can see of and i spoke with a few garages in auto electrics and none of them want to take on the job, so i am stuck unless there is an expert in auto electrics for the MR2/MRS.
The speedo dial might be faulty but the guy i bought it from said it was a new dial which cant be the case as the dial trip computer would have been Zeroed to my knowlege and not have 84000miles on it. I think it is an old cluster. Only other things i can think of is the ABS sensors that read the speed are not working bacause the ECU must be ok no lights are coming on everyday only now and again but does not flash only comes on after 10 miles, but saying that some days it does not come on at all.
Can anyone help?
Here are the wiring pics i was talking about m http://s925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/ (http://s925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/) m
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0140.jpg)
that last pic was the dial working with the engine on all fine and both RPM counter works and all gauges apart from the Speedometer and trip computer although the trip computer is always on it never clocks up the miles.
here are the rest
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0139.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0142.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0143.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0147.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0148.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0149.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0150.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0151.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0152.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0153.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0154.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0155.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0156.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0157.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0158.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0141.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0144.jpg)
the car is this
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0116.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0117.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0101.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0102.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0103.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0104.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0106.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0107.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0108.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0110.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0112.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0111.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0113.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0115.jpg)
(http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/rabscott2003/IMAG0114.jpg)
Interestingly enough i found this out, m http://www.car-handbooks.com/Speedos/Co ... verter.htm (http://www.car-handbooks.com/Speedos/ConverterFitting/FittingMRSConverter.htm) m
I think with looking at my pictures you will see a black box with SP1A on it this box i think is not suitable for the convertion. The link above you can see how the convertor is fitted quite easily, but i must say the person who fitted mine did not soldier any of them just twisted them and taped them up. I think this is the problem here. I think all i need to do is to repair the wires with a soldier kit and then put this convertor box on but also replace the clock dial with a new sticker.
Any thoughts?
If someone who has an MR-S could take some pictures of their wiring of behind the clocks with the convertor this would be great to see just how it is supposed to work as i really do think mine has been done by an amateur with using the wrong convertor box. Although all the other dials works fine if i could repair the wires buy a new box this might fix the problem. If it still fails it might be a case of the sensors at the ABS either that or the clock might be faulty as apartently a garage done the clock conversion and said it was new but with 86000 or so miles on the trip computer which you can not apartenly change it is unlikey it is new. If i could swap my clock with a KPH i would and just repair the wires i dont know why people need mph i can easily convert in my head as i used to race abroad on bicycles. 8km 5 m 16km 10m etc etc
Right, here goes...
Have been out and looked at my wiring (also an import, with a correctly fitted converter).
Here's the difficult part - my converter has differently coloured wires, and it's only got 4, rather than the 5 on your SP1A unit.
For a quick fix, I'm inclined to recommend you ditch the 5 wire SP1A unit and buy one with the same colours as mine to save faffing around (they're quite cheap on eBay). Not saying you can't get the SP1A to work, and I've given some pointers for using this unit in the footnote at the bottom of the unit if you want to try - but I don't know what to do with the 5th wire, and I think its best to go 4-wire!
All of the wiring below whould be tapped into the RIGHT MOST connector when looking at the steering wheel.
i.e. the connector that clips in behind the fuel gauge NOT behind the speedo (as you would otherwise expect!).
The wiring should go as follows...
(http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af116/frogger_album/mr2roc/speedoconvert.jpg)
The key thing about this wiring is that the Red wire with a White stripe should NOT be broken, just tapped into, as should the white wire with black stripe.
These just provide a +ve and -ve power source.
The only cable that is completely cut into should be the yellow one (with tags) this should be re-routed to go 'in' to the convertor (via the yellow cable) and back 'out' into the clocks (via the grey cable).
It's not a problem that they've already cut ones which should only be tapped into, obviously these can be rejoined.
If you want a pro job then soldering is a good plan. Crimp on connectors are fine too. And to be honest, because there's no real movement of these wires, simply meshing the strands, and twisting is good enough too!
When I needed to complete an engine swap on my old daily driver in time to get work the next morning, I once spliced a WHOLE wiring loom (30-40 wires?) together using this method s:lol: :lol: s:lol: still works fine! You just got to make sure you don't let and strands pierce through the insulating tape and short on anything else.
I took pics of my converter wiring if you need them - but to be honest I think the pic above is clearer (hard to believe I know!)
Remeber to do all wiring with the battery disconnected s8) 8) s8) lol
Footnote:
5 wire SP1A unit has a red and a black wire. These will be a +ve and -ve supply, so can be wired in the same way as the 4-wire unit ('tap' into existing cables rather than cut entirely for these wires) However, I'm confused by the remaining 3 wires! One should be and 'in' for the ecu signal and one for an 'out', but why another?!
I think i will need to reconnect the red and white wire as the person has cut it in half and left it disconnected with tape on it. Dont know why.
Thank you for the great advice to be honest i am going to buy a convertor and do your wiring program. It seems easier.
Robert
Hi Frogger i just wanted to ask what convertor should i get as i seen this one here:- m http://www.car-handbooks.com/Speedos/Co ... verter.htm (http://www.car-handbooks.com/Speedos/ConverterFitting/FittingMRSConverter.htm) m
That one will certainly do the job, though IIRC any of the ones on ebay such as this m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-SPEEDO-CON ... 0461112146 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOYOTA-SPEEDO-CONVERTER-DELIMTER-KMH-MPH-/330461112146) m do the same for £10+ pounds cheaper. (£30 INC P&P rather than £40 + P&P) s8) 8) s8)
I think there's only a couple of Jap brands (Nissan and Mazda) which use a different electronic converter.
Any electronic Toyota one should do, but the seller of the one in the ebay link above does request you "State model and year when you order" so looks like they'll make sure you get the right thing anyway.
Since my clocks cluster MPH model were changed from the KPH cluster and have different milage on them ie the KPH orginal when car was made in Japan was sitting at 130000km the clock went faulty and then was changed to a second hand MPH clock with 86000 miles on it with that SP1A convertor do i still need the convertor with the MPH clock?
Hmm, Good question!
I missed that change of clusters when reading through your initial posts.
In short - I dont know if you'll actually need a converter or not with that set-up (jap ECU, UK clocks).
It wouldn't hurt to take off all the SP1A stuff, put the wires back to 'stock' and give it a go and see.
It should give you a speedo with a needle that moves at least (an improvement on the current situation!) but I couldn't guarantee it will read in mph properly til you give it a go!
Theres a good chance it may do, and if it does you've saved yourself £30.
Certainly in jap import Honda's swapping the clocks to UK spec clocks works without a converter, and those Honda's use the exact same converter units IIRC.
What this DIDN'T do was remove the 112mph speed limiter (It's quite common for Jap cars to be limited to 112mph, and a fix to this is the speedo converter chip which bumps the limiter way up to 180 or so.) - BUT this was because the clocks were a feed wrong side of the ECU in the Honda's.
To de-limit and convert the speed in these cars you had to fit the chip gearbox side of the ECU (clocks side just converted IIRC).
Because the MR-S does not suffer from this problem (converter on clock side also delimits), it may be that a change of clocks to UK spec also does the same job.
To be honest at the moment I'm struggling to recall if the MR-S even has this limiter, but most Jap imports do!
Maybe thats another bridge to cross when and if you come to it - may not be a problem!
When I'm driving I've usually got another limiter fitted in the passenger seat, gives me an ear full at around the same point the stock limiter cuts in... s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Been thinking some more in light of the cluster change, and I'm now wondering if your SP1A box was a failed attempt to breach a delimiter but keep UK clocks.
On closer inspection the 5'th wire seems to be going to the violet-with-white-stripe cable - which is the speed signal for the ECU (and as such controls the speed limiter).
Maybe the SP1A box just monitors the signal from the ABS (the car's yellow wire) and doesn't modify it like the 'converter' chips, BUT does send a modified signal to the ECU, and probably the power steering too?
If this was the case,then assuming the box ain't knackered, I would think the red-with-white-stripe cable is a key problem - as this is the 12v input, and it's cut in half!
Just to clear myself of any liability at this point - I can't recommend that you join that red-with-white-stripe cable and leave all the other wiring in place (as I don't know exactly what that SP1A box is doing) - but if it was my car, thats what I'd be trying lol.
I'm just a bit cautious to recommend anything outright as there are SRS airbag wires in the vicinity too!
If taking the 'safest' route (safest purely because you'll know whats what) - you could still take everything back to 'stock' wiring to see where you are.
But take note of where everything was, because if you encounter a 112mph limiter, that box (if its working) might help you out.
You might be lucky in taking everything back to stock and the clocks may do the limiter work for you.