Hi all. Couple of noob questions about my 99 mrs.
Warm, it idles at 1500 rpm. But the temp gauge won't get to half way, normally about 1/3 ish. Fan works fine. Hot air from heaters so not thermostat.
Only mods are a stainless jap system and an air filter/cold air feed thing. (not done by me).
Idle control valve? Maf? O2 sensor?
Try cleaning the MAF,instructions are in my signature.
Ta s:) :) s:) I'll grab some carb cleaner then s:) :) s:)
Thermostat stuck open perhaps?
Chris
Well today i had a tinker. My fuel economy was appalling, 120km for £30 appauling and it smelled rich.
So, maf cleaned. The thermistor was black. It's now an Amber colour and I can see the wire inside. Couldn't before.
New set of plugs in, noticed a weep of oil from the rocker gasket on the coil packs. Not a load, just a residue.
Started her up and she went to 1500 rpm, then dropped to 1100-1000. I think I may have cured something s:) :) s:)
A video of what it's like now. Normal?
m http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p29/ ... c4f8e8.mp4 (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p29/Si-dways/e1c4f8e8.mp4) m
I can't embed it on my phone s:( :( s:(
Quote from: "Ron jeremy"A video of what it's like now. Normal?
m http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p29/ ... c4f8e8.mp4 (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p29/Si-dways/e1c4f8e8.mp4) m
I can't embed it on my phone s:( :( s:(
Is that fully warmed up? If so, I still have a feeling the thermostat is sticking open.
Chris
Quote from: "Ron jeremy"But the temp gauge won't get to half way, normally about 1/3 ish. Fan works fine.
I'm with Chris on this..
I'm a little Confused.. What Fans are you talking about.. the Radiator Fans?... If so thay are Controlled by the ECU Engine Temp.. and if the Engine Temp never gets Warm.. then the Radiator Fans should not come on?..
But I still agree, that Somethings Wrong..
Cap
Yeah that's about as warm as it gets. Idle is now hunting between 1000 and 1500. It's bugging me now. And if I read correctly, there's no way of plugging an mrs in is there?
I've considered the stat, then sensors, timing being advanced, but I'm just guessing.
Quote from: "Ron jeremy"Yeah that's about as warm as it gets. Idle is now hunting between 1000 and 1500. It's bugging me now. And if I read correctly, there's no way of plugging an mrs in is there?
I've considered the stat, then sensors, timing being advanced, but I'm just guessing.
If the thermostat is stuck open, the engine may never get to full working temperature, so the water temperature sender will be telling the ECU that the engine is not yet warm. Result would be that the engine stays in warm up mode (fast idle and rich mixture) and the temperature gauge does not show fully warm. You also mentioned the rad fan works OK, but if the temperature is not fully up to standard working level, the fan should never come on, unless hot water is getting to the radiator before the engine is fully warm, which it should not. For me, all this points to a thermostat fault as the first thing to eliminate.
Chris
Yeah the rad fan came on once, when I'd parked up actually and turnedthe engine off. Where is the stat then?
If the thermostat is stuck open, the engine may never get to full working temperature, so the water temperature sender will be telling the ECU that the engine is not yet warm. Result would be that the engine stays in warm up mode (fast idle and rich mixture) and the temperature gauge does not show fully warm. You also mentioned the rad fan works OK, but if the temperature is not fully up to standard working level, the fan should never come on, unless hot water is getting to the radiator before the engine is fully warm, which it should not. For me, all this points to a thermostat fault as the first thing to eliminate.
Chris[/quote]
+1
Right then, I'll get a new stat ordered. £12 odd from camskill.
Is there a way of plugging the car in? My engine management light seems to have had it's bulb removed. I could need all sorts of sensors all over the place. Could o2 sensors cause these symptoms?
Sure can. l viewtopic.php?f=47&t=31275&p=381395&hilit=paper+clip#p381395 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=31275&p=381395&hilit=paper+clip#p381395) l
That's useful s:) :) s:) I guess I'll be getting a bulb for the cel then. Let's get that can of worms opened.
l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32466&hilit=+light (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=32466&hilit=+light) l
l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25259&p=349292&hilit=j+spec+readers#p349292 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25259&p=349292&hilit=j+spec+readers#p349292) l
Right an update. Thanks to Bryan, I've been eliminating a few things.
I've had the cluster off and the cel is present and looks fine. It doesn't light up, I checked for tape and took it all to bits. Nothing there at all.
I looked at the ecu. All the wires are in tact there too.
So my theory is, whatever is causing the fast running, rich mixture and poor economy also lit the light up, and it either burned out or was disabled. Probably the latter.
So fix the light, find the fault, and fix that. Simples!
So guys, possible causes of my symptoms.
Fast idle, sometimes hunting but only when warmer. Temp reading never at half. Fan not cutting in. Poor economy, smell of rich mixture.
Incidentally, the plugs weren't black or wet when I swapped them. I've ordered a stat and I'll swap
That on Tuesday or Wednesday. What else now?
Quote from: "Ron jeremy"So fix the light, find the fault, and fix that. Simples!
I've ordered a stat and I'll swap
That on Tuesday or Wednesday. What else now?
Stick to your plan,you look like your on the right track.Getting that EML working is the key.
Update time s:) :) s:)
The fan kicks in here
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p29/Si-dways/687646b0.jpg)
So it's not the stat, but a new one can't hurt.
So I pulled the clocks apart. Can you see why my cel ain't working yet?
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p29/Si-dways/bc2d6771.jpg)
I'll give you a hint
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p29/Si-dways/b409aef8.jpg)
And ta daaa!
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p29/Si-dways/741db891.jpg)
I'm off to find a paper clip and report back with whichever sensor/components are broken.
Right. Error codes 21 and 28 that's all s:) :) s:) .
So is that both oxygen sensors?
I assume those codes are PO021 & 28 in which case they are Camshaft Position Actuator A-Bank 2 timing over advanced and Intake Valve-Bank 2 control solenoid CKT range/performance, respectively. I'm sure that someone more learned will be along to explain those codes in more detail.
No, mine is a j spec so I'm reading flashes of the engine management light. The two codes that came up were 21 and 28. According to the link that life of bryan posted up, both those codes relate to o2 sensors.
The uk codes are different I think.
Dohh. Didn't read that post. s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Quote from: "Ron jeremy"No, mine is a j spec so I'm reading flashes of the engine management light. The two codes that came up were 21 and 28. According to the link that life of bryan posted up, both those codes relate to o2 sensors.
The uk codes are different I think.
Sounds like both your manifold sensors,with it be an import you wont have a post cat sensor,see here for sensors to buy: l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=19412 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=19412) l
1-Digit 2-Digit Meaning
1 None Normal -- no problem
11 Loss of power to ECU: ignition switch/circuit; main relay/circuit; ECU
6 12 RPM signal/no-signal to ecu from distributor ("ne" or "g") after engine has been cranked: distributor/circuit; starter/signal circuit; igniter/igniter circuit; ECU
13 Same as 12 but after engine has run at 1,000-1,500 rpm: distributor/distributor circuit; ECU
3 14 Ignition signal (no "igf" signal to ecu, no signal from igniter 4 times in a row): igniter/igniter circuit; igniter and ignition coil/circuit; ECU
5 21 Oxygen Sensor signal/oxygen sensor heater signal: open/short in oxygen sensor or signal
4 22 Water temperature sensor signal (open or short in water temperature sensor signal): water temperature sensor circuit; water temperature sensor; fault in coolant temperature sensor circuit; ECU
8 24 Intake air temperature sensor signal: open or short in intake air temperature signal; intake air temperature circuit; intake air temperature sensor; ECU
25 Air/fuel ratio lean indicator (lean signal sent to ECU from oxygen sensor): injector fault(s); injector circuit; injector; oxygen sensor circuit; oxygen sensor; air leak; fuel pressure line; airflow meter or map sensor; ECU. Try cleaning the injectors.
26 Air/fuel ratio rich indicator: same as 25; cold start injector
27 Sub-oxygen sensor circuit or sub-oxygen sensor heater circuit; ECU
28 #2 oxygen sensor/oxygen sensor heater; same as code 21
2 31 Manifold and/or airflow meter sensor signal circuit: airflow meter/circuit; manifold pressure sensor/circuit; ECU
32 Airflow meter signal (vane-type): airflow meter/circuit; ECU
14 34 Abnormal turbocharger pressure: turbo charger; airflow meter/manifold/turbocharger pressure sensor; intercooler system; ECU
35 Turbocharger pressure sensor signal: turbocharger pressure sensor; ECU
7 41 Throttle position sensor signal: open or short in tps signal; tps sensor; tps signal/circuit; ECU
9 42 Vehicle speed sensor signal circuit (no speed signal for several seconds): while vehicle is operated under heavy load (tps/map/air flow inputs); speed sensor/circuit; ECU
10 43 Starter signal (no "sta" signal to ecu until engine speed exceeds 800rpm): vehicle is push started; ignition switch/circuit; ECU. Not a real problem unless it recurs.
11 51 Switch signals: TPS idle switch off; neutral start switch off (automatic transmission in Drive); A/C switch on; A/C switch/circuit; A/C amplifier; TPS/circuit; neutral start switch/circuit; ECU
12 52 Knock sensor signal (open or short in knock sensor signal): knock sensor/circuit; ECU
13 53 Knock control signal in ECU
71 EGR valve malfunction (exhaust gas tempeature below specification for EGR control): EGR system; EGR gas temperature sensor/circuit
72 Air conditioner compressor relay/relay signal: A/C compressor relay/circuit; ECU
Brilliant. Having two knackered sensors, would that cause the symptoms I have then?
I reckon so as they are the only codes but if you change them then you will get your answer. s:D :D s:D
Any pointers for where to get em? The thread about generic sensors confused me a bit. Cheap ones will do.
The link I posted is pretty comprehensive with links to where to get them or you can try Ebay or pay around £180 each from Toyota.
w www.sparkplugs.co.uk (http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk) w
I believe it's the Denso DOX 204's that you need.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There are some on eBay for the rav 4 an celica. Any 4 plug ones do?
Quote from: "Mike_V"sparkplugs.co.uk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
+1 same as the toyota proper one the denso
also the cheap ones can also cause lots of probs
Quote from: "Mike_V"http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk
I believe it's the Denso DOX 204's that you need
£57.60 each, now that's a bargain!!!
Quote from: "Mike_V"Quote from: "Mike_V"http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk
I believe it's the Denso DOX 204's that you need
£57.60 each, now that's a bargain!!!
Denso and plug and play,I would definitely go with these.
There are two listed on there, a front and rear. Are both the ones I need the same?
Ron. You need 2x DOX-0204 O2 sensors as they are both the same, that will do you nicely.
I have a sensor socket you could borrow when you change them.
All ordered. £120 Including special delivery. If they don't fix it I'll be annoyed. I'm hoping that two knackered sensors are confusing the ecu and it has no idea how much fuel to give the car, hence the problems.
I'll update on weds s:) :) s:)
not sure so much with the import but the o2 sensor on my uk version went didnt cause it to idle high. sorry to burst a bubble and all.
Well it's a start, I have two faults and they should fix em. After that, I'll sell it if it doesn't cure it.
Another member sums this up quite nicely.
Quote from: "cclarke99"Personally, I'd replace the sensor with a proper item. After all, it's only the cost of two tanks of petrol The heater doesn't only work at start up, but whenever the engine conditions cannot maintain the sensor temperature just by the heat of the exhaust gasses, e.g at idle or light loads. If it's not at the proper temperature then the mixture will be wrong, causing poor idling and possibly damaging the cat. Alternatively you might miss a much more important fault, like a misfire which could, over time, break up the cat, costing a lot more than the original sensor to replace. Toyota certainly would not have added the heater if they thought they could get away without it; and the control system ftted to the 1zz is well set up and deserves to be treated with respect.
Exactly. I'll get the sensors in on Wednesday, see what that does. I'd imagine that both of them being faulty would cause fuelling issues quite easily. At least they'll be done, and there are no more faults.
Quote from: "rbuckingham"not sure so much with the import but the o2 sensor on my uk version went didnt cause it to idle high. sorry to burst a bubble and all.
point 5 of this link explains a thing or two s:) :) s:)
m http://www.lambdapower.co.uk/diagnosis/ ... dex.asp#q5 (http://www.lambdapower.co.uk/diagnosis/diagnostic_index.asp#q5) m
i see where your going just pointing out from my experiance it didnt do that. hopefully and i really do hope that this is the prob of the idle. either way as said before its best to clear all faults that bring on the cel light to eliminate problems so either way its a step in the right direction
Right the sensors are swapped. The light went out. Still running quick, rich and misfiring.
The fast tick over was due to the throttle cable being too tight. Because the car won't idle.
Poked at the throttle position sensor, revs changed and the light came back on. With a code for the sensor.
So, tps is knackered. New one going on in a bit.
No other codes, no misfire detected. New plugs, clean maf. What next?! Can the tps cause a misfire??
make sure you reset the ecu by disconnecting the battery for 20 minutes. That'll zap the long term fuel trips which are certain to be a mess if sensors have been reading bad data.
If poking the sensor had such an effect, it could be the loom or a bad connection rather than the actual sensor. Easy enough to check if you have a multimeter though.
So the sensor was the wrong one. Great. Correct one ordered from camskill and should go on when it comes.
Now I have a dodgy fast idle, hardly surprising. And a constant misfire.
One error code, 41. Again, hardly a surprise.
Today I've binned the silly exhaust. Just unbolted it at the join on the drivers side so the pipe points down. No difference at all.
Also binned the pre cats s:) :) s:)
Plugs are new, maf is clean, o2 sensors replaced, ecu reset.
No error codes bar the tps. All wiring in tact. Where now? Can the tps being faulty cause a mis fire?
maybe injector ie leaking so puting more fuel in than should. is the misfire on one particular cylinder
This post is a bit late really but if you want to eliminate the thermostat then take it out of the engine when cold, put it in a bowl, pour boiling water over it and it shoud open. When it cools, it should close.
My money is on a sensor but I'm not sure which ones are on the 2. Crankshaft position? Camshaft position? Idle? Maf? I've got an O2 malfunction code which is probably causing a fuel mixture code but the car runs fine, no problems with idle but it did have before the cam sensor was changed, but I think the fuel consumption is too high so maybe you've diagnosed it correctly.
I think that if I change the faulty O2 sensor it will solve the perceived fuel consumption issue.
Ok, just read through all of this! Definitely sounds like your thermostat is stuck open. That's a shame as it's a pain in the rear to change. That'll explain the running rich, poor fuel economy, low gauge reading and the high idle.
The misfire is a tougher one to call. Incorrect fueling because of the incorrect temperature reading could cause it. You know you probably need a new thermostat though, in my humble opinion it makes sense to concentrate on getting that sorted and ignore the miss fire for now.
No that's the thing, if I unplug the coils one at a time it dies on each one.
The fast idle is caused by the throttle cable being adjusted to make it idle fast. If there's slack the car cuts out. If I out my foot under the accelerator pedal and lift, the car cuts out. It won't idle because the throttle position sensor is faulty. That's the only code I have so replacing it should fix the idle. As for the misfire, I'm hoping it'll fox that too. I'll fit the tps then try a different maf and coils.
Throttle position sensor doesn't do as much as you think. It's more a hint to the ECU that you're trying to accelerate or decelerate. The MAF and O2 sensors perform the bulk of the fuelling calculations. However, if the sensor is reading wide open throttle at idle, that may cause it to run rich but wouldn't explain a miss fire or the stalling when lifting the pedal. Perhaps you have a faulty idle control valve or a problem with the throttle body but again neither explains a miss fire.
What you could really do with doing is getting around to a friendly local member and spending some time swapping parts over to isolate the problem(s). I'm not near to you but I'm prepared to do it if you're down Oxford way any time soon.
If you have an TPS that you Expect is Faulty.. Pull the Wires to it..
Run it without it.. If the ECU is getting a Steady but Wrong Sig, then it will Ignore the TPS.. By pulling the TPS, the ONLY thing that will happen, is the Car will be a 'Little Thin' on Acceleration.. The ONLY way the TPS can cause a Missfire.. is if the Sig From it is 'Irritatic' and the ECU thinks you are Tapping on the Accelerator.. then it will keep tossing fuel at it.. thinking you are quickly reving the Engine..
I've Pulled the TPS on my USDM Spyder, and have done some Logging to prove what it does..
Without being able to look at the Fuel trims.. I'm Thinking the Removal and Cleaning and Re-assembly.. of the Injectors is the Next Step..
Cap
No the next step is an honest eBay ad and the purchase of a uk model and a diagnostic tool.
whats your misfire code?
There isn't one. Just the throttle position sensor. I've reset the ecu and driven from Scarborough to Manchester and still only one code. It was misfiring and showing no codes til we fiddled with the tps and all of a sudden the light came on with code 41 iirc.
not sure if it is right due to your an import but code 41 looks like it is linked to the o2 sensors connected round the wrong way. maybe that means sensor 1 to plug 2. the other thing is has someone played with the o2 wires and got the leads round the wrong way.
Problem solved. I've just, unexpectedly, received a cheque for £3k. I'll put this on eBay, and buy one with no faults s:) :) s:)