I've just this afternoon MOTed the Roadster at my local garage. I keep a keen eye on the maintenance of the car, and do most things myself (or with the help of a friend). I had planned on doing a quick run around the car to check for obvious failure points before taking it in, but as it happens I ran out of time and ended up in a rush. I took it to the garage immediately after a 200 mile drive home from Sheffield, which I'd driven to on Friday night (in the dark).
The garage owner called, told me the car was done, and that he'd had to replace a headlamp bulb. I did question this in my mind, but in relief at the car passing, I let it slide. Arrived at the garage to find a £24!! INC VAT bill for a new bulb and fitment, which I paid on the basis I couldn't be absolutely sure it hadn't suddenly failed. Now, I know garages aren't able to charge for work that hasn't been authorised by the customer, but quite honestly I didn't want to get into an argument with the guy.
As soon as I left the place, I felt like I'd let myself down at not questioning him further. I know it's not a lot of money, but the principle angers me. Does this sound like a con to you guys? It certainly does to me, particularly since the lights were working perfectly well on Friday night and this morning!
Arent they a complete Pita to change ? I might be wrong it may be the sidelight that's a pain, but that may explain the labour charge. If it needed changing in the first place that is........
£24 to replace a headlight bulb us robbery, they are not hard to cone by and not hard to get to grrrrr
Sent from a planet somewhere nearby
They are a 2 minute job to do at most. That's an absolute joke. I would of refused to pay for it to be honest. Should of let him issue you a fail certificate. Go to the petrol station. Fit a bulb for £3 or whatever and gone back for your pass certificate. Utter robbery.
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£24 to include VAT would be about right, especially taking into account that garages tend to charge in units of 10 or 15 minutes. That's how it works, like it or not.
If you are a post 03, then fitting bulb is a lot more difficult than pre 03. The trade off is the sidelight s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "dj2k21"They are a 2 minute job to do at most.
Challenge!!
Not putting my money on you... LOL
blimey, garage i take mine to just pop a new bulb in for you for free!
As I mentioned, I think it's highly unlikely it actually needed a replacement bulb, since all lights have been working perfectly over the weekend and my journey back down south today. Retrospectively, I don't think there is much I can do, but I won't ever return my car to them. I'll use council testing stations in future.
Out of interest, how much did they charge for the MOT?
Quote from: "mrzwei"Out of interest, how much did they charge for the MOT?
£54.85.
Last week I drove to llanberis in the dark, the next day I set off in the dark to go home and the nearside low beam bulb blew as I was pulling out of the car park. So it can happen when least expected.
I say you should name and shame places like this, it's extremely bad for motorists and all mot garages to have scammers like this taking advantage of people.
Sent from a planet somewhere nearby
Quote from: "alexm9"Quote from: "mrzwei"Out of interest, how much did they charge for the MOT?
£54.85.
Yeah, that's the top rate I think. A lot of the garages around here (and I'm sure everywhere) discount it quite heavily just to 'hook' your trade, in which case the odd bulb or wiper blade is worth paying for for the ticket.
There are some good deals around eg standard service (oil and filter change!) plus MOT for say £130 which gives you a stamp in the book and the MOT Cert. ie a years motoring. In Bracknell there are a couple of garages that will garantee the pass or no fee (it doesn' say that the pass comes without further cost mind s:D :D s:D ).
As said, bulbs just 'fail' usually as they are turned on or off and your long run could have been the last straw.
As you hinted, check it yourself first, but £23 is not that high a price to pay for a pass. Time is usually the issue, a Toyota dealer ripped me off for 300 plus quid on an 02 for discs that must have magically rusted overnight (and would have definitely have cleaned up) but I needed the car!
Another thing to watch out for is when they try to charge a part re-test fee for a minor fail item, eg blown bulb when it should be free! something they usually try when you repair the item yourself.
Another great one is my local BMW dealer charge £35 for you to watch your MOT!
With regard to refitting a front side-light - After 4 to 5 attempts to fit I've found that my hands are too big to do the job!! (On a pre-facelift) so waiting for it to be accomplished during annual service - So I'm riding with one upgraded side-light (o/s) and one normal (n/s) AFter all the swearing and loss of skin I would pay the £24 asked!! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
It wasn't a sidelight, but a headlight, and it almost certainly wasn't broken. What I'm after really is an idea of how I can retrospectively challenge this? Should I have been given the chance to decide myself if I want to have this repair carried out? It was not an option, they just did the work and billed me.
I don't see what positive actions you can take, other than treating it as a "learning opportunity". If you want to keep on being negative, then I guess you could name & shame them every chance you get, but it's too late and it's your word against theirs for any real action. And - for all you know - the headlamp bulb could easily have blown when they switched it on to perform the test!
If they really wanted to rip you off, then there would have been other, more profitable things that they could have done (my father worked in the garage trade, so I've heard a few things). Put it behind you, it really wasn't that much of a ripping off, if at all. You're probably right to take it to the Local Authority place next time.
So how much did the bulb cost? You have a facelift car don't you? so its a separate dip and main beam bulb, which with a quick look on halfords are about a tenner each. So the garage charged you £14 to fit it.
The alternative being, they tell you first, you go down, take the car away, go to halfords, buy a bulb, go home (I suppose you could take the front of your car apart in halfords car park if you have the tools?) Open the bonnet, take the frunk cover off, un clip the 18 plastic push rivets, hoping they don't break on you, lift off the cover, fit and test the bulb, put it all back together, drive back down to the test station for a partial re-test. I don't know your situation but for me i would have had to do all this on the drive, in the cold, in the dark and then theres possibly the need to take time off work for the retest?
All that to save £14?
If your still not happy then I would put it down to experience, move on and don't go back...... s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "alexm9"Quote from: "mrzwei"Out of interest, how much did they charge for the MOT?
£54.85.
HOW MUCH??? An MOT by me is £24.99? I always go to them their a cracking garage.. They always give a discounted labor charge if you have work done through them.. But they also take you through to show you something is not working before asking you to fix it but they also give you a choice of them doing it, they get part and I do it, or just all me..
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Quote from: "alexm9"It wasn't a sidelight, but a headlight, and it almost certainly wasn't broken. What I'm after really is an idea of how I can retrospectively challenge this? Should I have been given the chance to decide myself if I want to have this repair carried out? It was not an option, they just did the work and billed me.
How do you know that 'it almost certainly wasn't broken'? as said, the filliment will just 'break', bulbs don't last forever.
Most garages have a policy about contacting customers prior to a major cost.
When you went to collect the car they could have said 'It's failed because of a headlamp bulb not working'. What do you do then? I know what most people do.
As Roger said, at least 20 min labour @ £50 per hour = £17 plus the part at say a fiver plus vat @20% = whatever!
Fight the big battles not the little ones.
Quote from: "Pavett1990"Quote from: "alexm9"Quote from: "mrzwei"Out of interest, how much did they charge for the MOT?
£54.85.
HOW MUCH??? An MOT by me is £24.99? I always go to them their a cracking garage.. They always give a discounted labor charge if you have work done through them.. But they also take you through to show you something is not working before asking you to fix it but they also give you a choice of them doing it, they get part and I do it, or just all me..
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£30.50 here...we have government test centres,no work is carried out on the car at these centres,you bring it prepared.We don't do advisories you pass or fail.....you may get away with a failed bulb or dodgy wiper but not much else.
£24.99 for a bulb....yes its expensive but what can you do,i wouldn't loose any sleep over it tbh.
The garage are within their rights to charge what they like, but also must advise you of any proposed work before doing it. The bulb could be anything between £5 and £10, five minute job to change the bulb, a garage could reasonably charge a quarter of an hour labour.
Two words that any business needs to remember "repeat business". Your garage choose to be very formal about billing you for something that they could have done for the cost of the bulb. One customer less for next year.
Chris
Quote from: "ChrisGB"Two words that any business needs to remember "repeat business". Your garage choose to be very formal about billing you for something that they could have done for the cost of the bulb. One customer less for next year.
Chris
Agreed. I've not done this yet but does it really only take 5min to remove the frunk lid, un pop the 18 plastic popper rivet thingy's, remove the cover, skin five knuckles switching the bulbs (apparently?) and then put it all back together in 5mins?
BMW wanted £50 to fit a new side bulb in my 3 series company car. Although I wasn't paying the bill I thought that was a rip off so bought a bulb for £5 and did it myself.
I really doubt your garage made it up that your bulb had blown, I'm sure a dodgy garage would try something more daring than that.
They should have contacted you first but in fairness they probably thought they were giving you good service by just doing it as you'd be unlikely to refuse an MOT for the sake of a bulb replacement.
OK you may have saved £15 or so but would it be worth the time and hassle?
Bulbs just fail. I think you're being a bit harsh on the garage myself.
Quote from: "Mightyquin"BMW wanted £50 to fit a new side bulb in my 3 series company car. Although I wasn't paying the bill I thought that was a rip off so bought a bulb for £5 and did it myself.
I hope that was in company time though s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I couldn't believe some of the bills I signed off !
Quote from: "AckersMR2"Quote from: "ChrisGB"Two words that any business needs to remember "repeat business". Your garage choose to be very formal about billing you for something that they could have done for the cost of the bulb. One customer less for next year.
Chris
Agreed. I've not done this yet but does it really only take 5min to remove the frunk lid, un pop the 18 plastic popper rivet thingy's, remove the cover, skin five knuckles switching the bulbs (apparently?) and then put it all back together in 5mins?
Forgot about the frunk plastics, don't run them on my car, so add 4/5 minutes more I guess. Still the kind of thing I would do at cost in the interest of repeat business. I don't have the smallest of hands and managed it without difficulty.
Chris
I broadly agree with the thrust of this debate but why should you expect something for nothing?
If you use a garage regularly for your servicing and repairs then I would expect some sympathy towards a light bulb failure.
If you just drop it in for an MOT and it fails then you pay the cost of the repair.
What repeat business are you likely to give the garage you took it into for the MOT, other than the MOT? If you want it serviced, then get it done with the MOT.
What most motorists actually want is the certificate and maybe the stamp in the book. (I guess what most forum members want is understandably different).
Some differing opinions I see.
I can't see how a consumer caring about his rights and his outgoings is a negative thing? Positive action in my mind is to get to the bottom of the situation.
My issue is that they found a fault that I dispute, and completed work without my authorisation, which I should have actually refused to pay for. I'd have been perfectly happy to replace my own bulb had they failed the car for this, and happy to take it back in for a partial retest. Not all customers are the same, some like convenience and the costs that go with this, others prefer to do as much themselves as possible.
Furthermore, being that the lights were on during the drive to the garage itself, and I could see the reflection in the cars in front, I'm leaning towards believing this was a con, and something they do to all customers to get in extra revenue. Sure, only £24 from me, but if they do this twice a day they'll bring in an extra grand a month. The garage owner couldn't even clarify what bulb it was, just a 'headlight'.
Big or small, I don't let people take the mick. Putting it down to experience / forgetting about it is not how I operate.
Quote from: "alexm9"Big or small, I don't let people take the mick. Putting it down to experience / forgetting about it is not how I operate.
I have to ask then - Why pay for it without querying it / refusing to accept the replacement bulb? You could have stated that you were not contacted about the work, gave no permission for it to be undertaken and therefore refused to pay for it, but you handed over the cash. I think "putting it down to experience / forgetting about it" is really the only option you have left yourself!?
Last time my car was in (daily driver at Kwik-Fit), they said when I gave them the keys "if there's anything minor like wiperblades, bulbs etc, do you want us to just sort them?" and I said yes, fully expecting a set of wipers or a bulb to be on the bill. Nothing of the sort, and I was only coughing up £25 for the actual MOT.
I can see both sides of the argument, Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't, I guess?
There's probably a thread on another forum somewhere where someone's moaning that the garage failed their car for the sake of a blown bulb and why didn't they just replace it and charge them?
Quote from: "AmeR"I have to ask then - Why pay for it without querying it / refusing to accept the replacement bulb? You could have stated that you were not contacted about the work, gave no permission for it to be undertaken and therefore refused to pay for it, but you handed over the cash. I think "putting it down to experience / forgetting about it" is really the only option you have left yourself!?
It's a fair point. I did query it, and had I been given a minute to think, I'd have argued and refused. Very off form for me to be honest, but that shouldn't be the end of the matter IMO. My tired brain shouldn't bear the brunt of their unfair tactics!
I've e-mailed VOSA stating my concerns, and have asked of any record they have of a failure item being inputted into their database. According to my research, each item that fails is recorded on the system, and minor fails (such as bulbs) are allowed to be repaired on the fly without issuing an MoT failure notice. Perhaps this will prove fruitful.
Quote from: "AckersMR2"I can see both sides of the argument, Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't, I guess?
There's probably a thread on another forum somewhere where someone's moaning that the garage failed their car for the sake of a blown bulb and why didn't they just replace it and charge them?
Yes, quite. But contacting the customer
before carrying out the work is what one expects. The choice wasn't there in this case, and this is my main gripe.
I'm sure there is a sort of cut off point in terms of cost and contacting customer i.e. if less than £xx then just do it. Yes, that can open the doors to abuse and is based on trust (which what is lacking here) but I think people would be pleased the garage had the sense to just do it.
Maybe if you had the old bulb you would feel happier but they do fail without warning, you will never know and I would be dead chuffed if that is all that was wrong on an MOT. Even if is a scam it is cheap and you can get back on the road and enjoy.
Lifes too short to worry about the little things. As said elsewhere, fight the big battles.
:-) :-) :-)
Quote from: "AndrewMason"I'm sure there is a sort of cut off point in terms of cost and contacting customer i.e. if less than £xx then just do it. Yes, that can open the doors to abuse and is based on trust (which what is lacking here) but I think people would be pleased the garage had the sense to just do it.
Maybe if you had the old bulb you would feel happier but they do fail without warning, you will never know and I would be dead chuffed if that is all that was wrong on an MOT. Even if is a scam it is cheap and you can get back on the road and enjoy.
Lifes too short to worry about the little things. As said elsewhere, fight the big battles.
:-) :-) :-)
Yes, I suppose most people would consider their actions beneficial. I just find it all quite frustrating as I'm making an effort to do everything myself on the car that I'm capable of doing. Perhaps next time I'll be quite specific on the matter of authorisation before carrying out work.
Quote from: "alexm9"Quote from: "AndrewMason"I'm sure there is a sort of cut off point in terms of cost and contacting customer i.e. if less than £xx then just do it. Yes, that can open the doors to abuse and is based on trust (which what is lacking here) but I think people would be pleased the garage had the sense to just do it.
Maybe if you had the old bulb you would feel happier but they do fail without warning, you will never know and I would be dead chuffed if that is all that was wrong on an MOT. Even if is a scam it is cheap and you can get back on the road and enjoy.
Lifes too short to worry about the little things. As said elsewhere, fight the big battles.
:-) :-) :-)
Yes, I suppose most people would consider their actions beneficial. I just find it all quite frustrating as I'm making an effort to do everything myself on the car that I'm capable of doing. Perhaps next time I'll be quite specific on the matter of authorisation before carrying out work.
Having had a similar incident in the past myself, I can understand your frustration. I think if they had changed a really cheap bulb, in an accessible place (if they exist in modern cars s:) :) s:) ), and tried billing for the cost of the bulb, rather than a labour charge for an inaccessible one, without notifying you, then they would be seen in a positive light (no pun intended). I think what is frustrating is this lack of choice.
Different garages, different policies I guess? I know my small local garage won't do either, if its just in for an mot then it's a pass or a fail, end of.
If I take it in for a service and mot then that's different.
I try to be there for the mot if possible. I took my Peugeot in once, checked all the basic stuff first, obviously being a Peugeot there's always something electrical not working and in this case one of the two rear light bulbs on both sides had failed, so I changed them, checked it, took it for the mot and during the test no rear brake lights were working. As I was there he told me and I disputed it as I had just checked them. He tried it again and they worked so he passed it. Turns out there was a spring switch under the dash that needed a clean on the brake bar in the passenger foot well (the one that allows the passenger to apply the brakes!!!!) Had I not been there he would have failed the car.
Quote from: "AckersMR2"Different garages, different policies I guess? I know my small local garage won't do either, if its just in for an mot then it's a pass or a fail, end of.
If I take it in for a service and mot then that's different.
Exactly - most garages I have used wouldn't bother charging for a common, inexpensive, and accessible bulb. Its called customer service. Unfortunately the Roadster's headlights are a bit of a PITA - having learn't this when upgrading bulbs recently s;) ;) s;)
This is a good example of how perceptions can differ so much.
Garage - we did the MOT and replaced a bulb that would otherwise have resulted in a fail. We exceeded our customers expectations and used our initiative to save the customer time, hassle and extra cost.
Customer - I've been ripped off.
The moral here is to satisfy yourself with the vendors terms and conditions before commencing a contract, and to query and refute anything you deem unfair at the time.
You're convinced you've been ripped off to the tune of £24. OK, take it on the chin and use another garage next time, also give the car a full check over immediately before the test, and watch whist it's being done to ensure that you can witness any fail items.
Quote from: "Mightyquin"This is a good example of how perceptions can differ so much.
Garage - we did the MOT and replaced a bulb that would otherwise have resulted in a fail. We exceeded our customers expectations and used our initiative to save the customer time, hassle and extra cost.
Customer - I've been ripped off.
The moral here is to satisfy yourself with the vendors terms and conditions before commencing a contract, and to query and refute anything you deem unfair at the time.
You're convinced you've been ripped off to the tune of £24. OK, take it on the chin and use another garage next time, also give the car a full check over immediately before the test, and watch whist it's being done to ensure that you can witness any fail items.
I understand how it seems, but they weren't busy (they were sitting around eating crisps when I dropped the car off) and could have easily contacted me (I live one road away, and they have my home and mobile numbers) before going ahead with chargeable work. I believe my statutory rights actually insist authorisation is sought before commencing. If they'd given me the choice, I'd rather replace the apparently faulty item myself so that A) I can learn how to change headlight bulbs on the MR2 myself and B) to save me expense. The car had a month before the MOT was due to expire, and I had a couple of days off work anyway.
As I've said before. I would of let them fail it. Got a bulb for 99p from a petrol station changed it then took it back for its 're test and got my certificate
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Quote from: "dj2k21"As I've said before. I would of let them fail it. Got a bulb for 99p from a petrol station changed it then took it back for its 're test and got my certificate
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Wow your petrol stations cheap!
Quote from: "AckersMR2"Quote from: "dj2k21"As I've said before. I would of let them fail it. Got a bulb for 99p from a petrol station changed it then took it back for its 're test and got my certificate
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Wow your petrol stations cheap!
+1
You have no proof it was working at the time of the test.
You have the right to watch the test if you wish.
The price is fair for the part/labour involved.
I have to say I think you've got your knickers in a twist about nothing.
Lol ok ok it's 99p for side lights and tail lights h1, h4 and h7 are £2.50.
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Quote from: "alfajerry"You have no proof it was working at the time of the test.
You have the right to watch the test if you wish.
The price is fair for the part/labour involved.
I have to say I think you've got your knickers in a twist about nothing.
+1
Do they offer free retests, or do they charge again for a fail like some?
Whatever, you'll have to put this one down to experience and do the full pre-check and watch the MOT next time.
My reading is that you have to take it back before the end of the next working day, but if it was a realignment issue then there can be a charge. If you leave it with them to fix then it is a lot longer.
I have been known to be very wrong on this stuff though s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
It's all here:
m https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/retests (https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/retests) m
So let me just get this straight, you've complained to VOSA because someone has charged you £24.99 to rectify a fault in order for you to get an MOT on a 8+ year old car?
MOT stations have massively varying overheads and £54.85 is the maximum permissible charge so they're perfectly within their rights to charge that amount (as are others entitled to charge less). By the time they've gained access to the lamp, fetched a bulb, fitted it and rechecked it (and avoided you having the hassle of a fail) I can easily see this adding up to 10 or so minutes, plus the cost of the bulb. It might be argued that their sin is lack of communication in the first instance but if you expect the MOT centre to hold up the MOT in order to get get your approval (speaking as someone who has operated a commercial workshop operation) then they would be better off failing the MOT which would have done you no favours at all. The expression "you can't have your cake and eat it" (as odd as it often sounds) seems to make sense here...
Quote from: "MattPerformance"So let me just get this straight, you've complained to VOSA because someone has charged you £24.99 to rectify a fault in order for you to get an MOT on a 8+ year old car?
VOSA take such complaints seriously and will have recorded it in their system under "miscellaneous drivel."
I can't believe we have 5 pages of this, chalk it up to experience and never go there again. Recommend against the place if anyone asks you about it, and double check your lights when you arrive at the next place for your next mot.
It's obviously your right to complain, and your right to report them to whoever you like, for me, life is too short.
Sent from a planet somewhere nearby
LOL
Pistonheads response would be MTFU
I 'ad to look that up!
[MOD]I don't think is thread is serving any constructive purpose,any more, to forego any fallouts, I'm locking it now [MOD]