Hi All,
Well my problem free MR2 - suddenly developed the pace of a asthmatic snail!!!
Took it into local dealer, it's only just had it's 60,000 service, which was trouble free.... plus I'd just driven only two weeks ago 900 miles round trip to plymouth......
Check obvious things whilst i was present, such as MAF, etc.... so left it with them on saturday - rang them today.....
Hmmm well - you need a new cat and O2 sensor, seems the senor has either been dying or died which has caused a complete failure of the cat!!!!
It's actually under a 2 year toyota extended warranty, which is good as the cost of repair will be approx £1,000... then they have to check for any other damage caused !!!!
Same as others, a couple of days before, high oil loss with water loss !!!
funny though, the engine management light never came on.
lets hope they fix it and it hasn't caused any other damage.....
Jesus - you would think that after all these failures they would do something !!!!
oh well... get my loan car tomorrow - can't wait.
Cheers
Darren J s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
is it just the main cat that has faid mate? or have the pre-cats gone aswell, those are the ones you need to watch as if they break up and get sucked back into the engine, you'll need more than just a new cat s:? :? s:?
Oil loss = engine toasted.
Get it replaced!
I'll keep you informed, they want to do the sensor and cat before seeing if anything else is damaged, so I'll just leave it with them to fix and report.
it's a bugger as the engine has been rock solid till now, so lets hope it's just the cat.
As for the oil loss - yeah a little ominous, but they are the tech's not me....
I live by the two circles - Influence and concern.....
I can only be concerned about the engine and cat, I can't influence it, so i'll take the loaner and leave it to them to worry about all the complications.
Cheers
Darren
you're covered under your warranty mate, so dont worry about it. leave it to MR.T...
Just re-read your post - yours is NOT a typical failure - no-one else has reported water loss. This would indicate either a failed head gasket or a cracked block.
If you sit back and let them get on with it, you will end up in the loan car months as they will mess about trying to get away with fixing the cheap bits and ignoring the real cause.
You need to understand - the extended warranty is an insurance policy sold by Toyota dealers. If anything goes wrong, they have to pay for the parts, then claim them back from the insurers. It's not like the Toyota main warranty where the parts are provided free by MrT, then they charge the garage if it isnt covered under warranty.
Stay on top of them otherwise they will just take the piss.
Quote from: darrenjugginsyou need a new cat and O2 sensor, seems the senor has either been dying or died which has caused a complete failure of the cat!!!!
Same as others, a couple of days before, high oil loss with water loss !!!
s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Darren:
There is no way that I can think of, that a failed cat O2 sensor or both can cause oil and water loss. If there wasn't water loss, just oil, then it sounds similar to the pre-cat failures others have experienced and reported. In this case you need, at least, a replacement short engine. If water loss it sounds more like, as Steve says, a HG or block problem.
I would ask them to explain the mode of failure and the link between symptoms and thier diagnosis of the cause.
Andy
Hi Guys,
Sure will - seeming them tomorrow, so I'll have a chat with the mechanic about it all....
It was just a quick telephone call this morning to assess my transport options more than anything.
They are a good bunch and look after my car really well, so i'm hoping they will get everything sorted right for me.
As for the water loss, think this could have been due to the high temps we have had recently, was only minor loss not mega loss and it was all still pressurised.
I will get a full tail about what wrong etc and report back.
I'm a really nice customer until things don't go right, so i'll keep on top of it no worries.
thanks for your advice/comments I will bare them in mind when I have a chat with them tomorrow.
Cheers
Darren J
Darren:
Hope they continue to meet your previous experiences and get ot sorted quickly and first time. Keep us posted!
Andy
Quote from: "darrenjuggins"I'm a really nice customer until things don't go right......
Nice quote Darren, doesnt that make you a horrible customer then?
I will defenitely use this one in future "I am a great guy until things dont go right"....rather than people describe me as a misrable tw*t s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Anyway, hope it all goes ok. cant believe how they seem to go wrong bang on 60k...weird.
I take it the wheels are still fine though ......... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Hi Craig and Daz,
Thanks for confidance vote guys, the wheels are still Fine Daz, waiting for this set of tyres to run through then I'll put your on and have my current one's refurbished (cheers mate).
As for you craig - well what can I say, me an horrible customer.... no, no, no....... s:D :D s:D
Well the assessor should be there tomorrow so at least the remedial work should start soon, can't believe it just went like that and as you say craig - magical 60k mark as well......
well if they get it fixed, that's at least another 60k i'll get out of it :-) :-) :-)
always look on the bright side.
anyway late and my beds calling - thanks again guys and i'll keep you informed.
Cheers
Darren s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Sorry to hear your engine has gone the way of the pear... I'm on 55300 miles at the mo, and engine still seems as tight and solid as ever... touch wood!
Been thinking of trading up for a while though, so after your experience, mabye I should bring that date forward and just get on with it!
Unfortunately I can't really justify finding the additional £13k I need to get a VX220 turbo... hmm.
Tim.
Hi Carter,
well I've had no sign of a problem until last week - Friday 13th seemed to be D-Day......
The engine seemed fine - lets just hope it's the cat !
Well they should start work today ! Nice !
Thanks for your thoughts
Cheers
Darren
Quote from: "darrenjuggins"Hi Carter,
well I've had no sign of a problem until last week - Friday 13th seemed to be D-Day......
The engine seemed fine - lets just hope it's the cat !
Well they should start work today ! Nice !
Thanks for your thoughts
Cheers
Darren
How can the engine seem fine - it's just lost all of it's oil, and there is
NO WAY that oil loss is caused by a failed CAT alone - the only way for the oil to escape is for there to be an internal failure of the engine.
Well It's a race then!
Mine goes in for a complete engine removal and strip down next monday. Oil loss was at ~1ltr/480miles.
Apparently it will take a week to take apart, a week for the assessor to turn up and OK the work s:shock: :shock: s:shock: . There seems to be some doubt if it will be covered. s:( :( s:( and then a week to put it back together. Provided of course that they have the parts.
And unlike you darren, I don't get a courtesy car s:( :( s:(
Apparently you can claim £45 a day for 5 days for a car, only after the assessor turns up and says it's OK to do the work.
Not sure what I am going to do if they strip the engine and the assessor says no. 16hrs work at ~£60/hour Not a chance.
S
oh hell !!! thats not very good....
why might it not be covered ?
D
Because:
"Toyota do not recognise this as a problem with the MR2 Roadster engine"
Apparently there is some info on their internal fault system about the engine in another car but "it's not a MR2 Roadster Sir". s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Anyone got this fixed under extended warrenty and willing to name the garage for use with mine?
S
yeah possibly mine !!!
we shall see - they are replacing cat and o2 sensor - then looking for other problems after!!!
gulp !
Just FYI.
They replaced the Main cat and manifold (containing the pre-cats) on mine and checked for oil leaks. Didn't find any and sent me on my way.
Week and a half later no power. s:( :( s:(
S
oh bugger.... think I will be taking this thread with me.....
guess your engine dumped the oil in the cat again - causing yet another failure of the cat !!!
Sorry to hear that might, I'll try and make sure that dosen't happen to me....
It seems pretty clear that its another mechanical faliure and that they should be contract bound to cover it ! good luck mate.
D
You too.
The lack of power was the oil missing. top it back up and it's OK again.
Simon
simon,
which garage your car at so if need be mine can avoid the same problems.
Cheers
Darren
Just been reading your post's Darren & sound like you have a very poorly car there.
Has it been sorted now then ?
Heard this problem is most common with imported MR2's like the one i have recently acquired & your's, and am worried if mine is heading the same way being on just over 50,000 miles.
:shock:
Quote from: "japimportMR2"Heard this problem is most common with imported MR2's
Dont know where you heard that, but you need to change your sources s:? :? s:?
Hi Mate,
When you say import - you mean Japanese Import or European Import, as mines from Motorpoint (ie. Belgium, garage).
Well to update everyone, well they have now eventually opened her up to see what wrong....
(mini update - Assessor went Monday last week, reported NO POWERLOSS!, which was contry to our test drive on the saturday morning...... the garage didn't agree with this so didn't carry any work out, took the car out again on the wed for a comparison drive with the demo car, couldn't get 65MPH out of mine !!!! new assessor called for !!! - he arrived friday afternoon - they started work, now with a CAT change authorised to find that when it's been opened up - guess what the pre-cat or the little cat in the top has fell completely through into the main cat!!! nice!)
So - situation - driving mothers car (thanks mum) more parts on order!!!! Car SHOULD be ready for Tuesday !
seems Toyota have a serious problem with build quality on the Cat section of the engine - up until now it's been bullet proof - just really glad I had the extended warranty, else it would have been very costly!
Am really disappointed with the original assessor, bet he didn't even warm the car up to make his assessment!! (poor!)
so anyway - i'll update thread come tomorrow afternoon, hopefully.
Cheers
Darren
Quote from: "SteveJ"Quote from: "japimportMR2"Heard this problem is most common with imported MR2's
Dont know where you heard that, but you need to change your sources s:? :? s:?
Aren't they all imported in the end? s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
they're all made in the same factory in japan so they must be s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Topic Drift s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:D :D s:D s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
OK - update - car should be back with me this afternoon - all parts have arrived !
Fitting is commencing shortly....
I'll be interested to know exactly how much all the parts / labour have cost !
Simon_C seems to have exactly the same issue as me.... oh dear - thin end of the wedge me thicks for 2000 Roadsters !!!
Cheers
D
This was the main reason I started to loose confidence in my MR2. It was 3 years old and at 60K Km's. I had never had problems, but I didnt wat to take the risk.
Our new Prius will be here next month.
A Bugger isn't it.....
Cool purchase the primus - not exactly my styling taste, but the technology is certainly the way things will go, so nice one victor.
I intend to keep this (MR2) and then just get something else as well....
Once this is done it should be good for another 60 at least, but it is frustrating that an external part such as this has an inherent design flaw which is a time bomb waiting to happen !!!
Toyota - must do better !
D
Bet you they replace the manifold and the main cat. ONLY
Just remember to keep checking your oil on a weekly basis. Or more frequently. s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Simon
Hi,
Well it's back - just picked it up - Manifold Replaced and also Cat...... (Manifold the pre-cats?)
anyway - it seems to be running great, powers back and it's flying again (apart from the rain keeping me stready)
Yeah the oil thing does worry me, but I'll be crecking it religiously now, they say keep a long and if its using any, then note it all down and then they will pick the problem up....
Felt good signing the chitty and putting amount paid - £0 ! think it's cost toyota a pretty penny, certainly over a £1,000 if not more !!!
oh well - there problem, not mine, i just want my car to work !!!
Your sorted them Simon ?
cost to teh dealer for tyhe manifold and precats is circa £310
Quote from: "darrenjuggins"Your sorted them Simon ?
Nope, not sure if they have the engine out yet, will call them tomorrow.
They replaced the main cat and manifold last time it was in, about 7 weeks ago. Wonder if they will do it again this time or will I be writing another, "they've gone again" post in a few weeks. s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Simon
Quote from: "darrenjuggins"I intend to keep this (MR2) and then just get something else as well....
Glad to hear your cat problems are sorted now mate !
So what you thinking of purchasing, in addition to the MR2 & would you then consider using the MR2 on track days, if it was your 2nd car, with a set of slicks ?
s:) :) s:)
oh Heck......
Can of worms - As I'm on My own (all say ahh!) i won't be getting a second car just yet - my salary isn't in the Craig arena....
I'm not really shaw what i'd get next - like the RX8 - style, innovation and practicality in a good package..... is very tempting - although - I'd have to speak to the bank manager nicely s:D :D s:D
I'm still really happy with the 2, for everyday transport, just had a run to nottingham then, decided to go to sheffield before coming back home, really nice to have it back - responsive, quiet and fun... I've missed her s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
As for any problems associated with the engine, certainly didn't find any, but will be keep a close eye on the oil for sign's of consumption.....
oh and yes - when / if I get a second car - i'd love to use the MR2 for weekends and track days, just need to up that income a little so it dosent hurt so much on the pocket s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Cheers
D
Just an update on my car.
Toyota extended warrenty have REFUSED to cover my engine repair. s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
They have said that because it is a problem on the ...Avensis?/Corrolla?.. that Toyota Mfg should pay.
So now I wait to see if they will pay up. And still no car. No hire car, no chance of getting one out of extended warrenty, well not yet anyway.
Think I will call Toyota customer services to see what I can get.
Not a good end to the week.
Simon
Simon:
That's apalling. Hope you get a decent response from Cust Service. Whether they chose to admit it or not, it's a known problem. A mate who works for another Japanese car manufacturer told me recently, "It's a problem for a few manufacturers at the moment..." Might be worth digging into?
Andy
Hi Simon,
Sorry to hear your problems still haven't been rectified, I notice your last post is today, so i guess it's pointless asking for an update ?
Cheers
Darren
Quote from: "darrenjuggins"Once this is done it should be good for another 60 at least, but it is frustrating that an external part such as this has an inherent design flaw which is a time bomb waiting to happen !!!
Toyota - must do better !
D
I agree. The other models in their line-up are totally trouble free (we keep national breakdown statistics where I work and they confirm it).
The pre-cat failure has really seriously damaged the confidence I had in the reputation of Toyota. I feel like talking directly to the product/programme manager responsible for the MR2 and letting him know what I and many thousands of other owners feel about the situation...
Hi All,
Just an update - New Manifold / Pre cats / Cat fitted now.....
excellent.....
but.....
still have serious oil consumption..... oh dear......
Mr T is awaiting authorisation to operate on my little baby !!!!
Simon, how about filling us in on whats happend now with you..
Cheers
Darren
Just a quick run through then.
Took the car in to be checked over for the oil loss, after I had convinced them it was loosing oil... They checked everything visually and emmisions but found nothing wrong. Got them to check it properly.
Dropped the engine out and stripped it down. Still didn't know if I was going to have to pay for it or not. They warned me I would have to pay up for the strip down if it was found that the damage was caused by me.
Took an age for the engineers to come out and measure stuff then go back and measure the correct stuff!
Weeks passed and I still heard nothing. Eventually the extended warrenty refused to cover the repairs saying it should be covered by Toyota UK.
Finally got the OK and MrT got the parts and put my car back together.
Got it back last wednesday, been doing <3000 rpm ever since.
Only problems I can see with it are a missing stud from the under tray which means I have another rattle.
Missing dust cap on the passengers side locking wheel nut.
Crease in driver side wheel arch where it looks like it was jacked up on the bodywork.
Simon
Quote from: "SimonC_Here"Crease in driver side wheel arch where it looks like it was jacked up on the bodywork.
Probably not what you want to be doing but.. I hope you're screaming blue murder at MrT for that one? Can be costly to fix, too. s:evil: :evil: s:evil: s:evil: :evil: s:evil: (it's my pet-hate after a tyre shop did the same thing to my first 300ZX on a 2-post lift)
It pis$es me off big time to see mechanics do sloppy work on my car, especially when I always take great care!
Quote from: "phat"It pis$es me off big time to see mechanics do sloppy work on my car, especially when I always take great care!
Yeah, especially as they should be the professionals s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
'Course the trick is to find some evidence that it wasn't there before they took it in. Anyone got a close up, recent, pick of my car?!!
They suggested that it might have been done when I had new tires fitted.
All that time a go with lots of washes and waxes and I didn't notice it. Could have happened.... s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Simon
Its very interesting to read all of this as I was in a Jap breakers yard last week buying a few bits for my 2. The owner was chatting away and asked when I was comming back for a new engine, he goe's on say that the engine is flawed and will not last and its not just Mr2 either its Avensis as well. Questions does Avensis, Celica, Yaris and anything else with our engine have pre cats close up to the block, does anyone have high milage say over 80K with an original engine and does anyone have high milage without pre cats? By the way the going rate for a non oil burning bare 2 engine is £1000 and going up due to short supply. s:( :( s:(
I think he's exagerating slightly...
Our independent technical testing centres keep statistics on just about every type of car. If Toyota isn't the most reliable make on the market, they are at least in the top 3. The only known issues with the ZZ engine familly are with the 189bhp 2ZZ-GE (Celica TS model) and the (lesser known issue) with the pre-cats on the MR2/MR-S.
You should check stats for some other manufacturers (like Opel/Vauxhall, Renault, Fiat and VW) it makes you wonder what *doesn't* go wrong with their cars s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
No doubt Toyota is a reliable car and you only hear the bad never the good but we seem to be hearing quite a bit of bad here, by the way what goes with the Celica engine?
Quote from: "Peter Weeks"what goes with the Celica engine?
They don't have the precats, so they don't have these issues either s:? :? s:?
I've just checked our (TCS/Swiss Automobile Club) database and there is nothing mentioned for the Celica.
However, I do recall reading an article on the 2ZZ engine problems. I think the symptom was an excessive oil consumption due to worn or damaged piston rings and cylinder sleeves.
I believe in many cases (and this is probably also true for the MR2 engine too) the problem was caused by a very low oil level (causing temporary oil starvation when the car is turning / during lateral acceleration). Actually, I wonder how many people check the oil level regularly... I know quite a few who never check... s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Not checking or changing the oil is asking for it, anyway thanks for the info. So do I understand correctly not other ZZ engine has pre cats?
Quote from: "Peter Weeks"So do I understand correctly not other ZZ engine has pre cats?
1ZZ-FE in other cars doesn't have them either...
About checking the oil...I don't know anyone who checks his oil after every 30 miles. It doesn't take even that long to burn 1l when the precats break.
Hey Tem,
[topic drift]
Just saw your new avatar there: man, how do you get through snow with that front spoiler? s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:D :D s:D
Looks amazing !! Did you fit it recently?
[/topic drift]
[/img]
Quote from: "phat"Just saw your new avatar there: man, how do you get through snow with that front spoiler? s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:D :D s:D
I don't s;) ;) s;) That's what winter beaters are for s;) ;) s;)
QuoteLooks amazing !! Did you fit it recently?
Thanks s:oops: :oops: s:oops: I put it on in the middle of June or so...
<lets get back on topic though s8) 8) s8) >
Quote from: "Tem"About checking the oil...I don't know anyone who checks his oil after every 30 miles. It doesn't take even that long to burn 1l when the precats break.
I agree; my commute is a lot further than that so it would mean a stop half way to check the oil level s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:? :? s:?