MR2 Roadster Owners Club

The Workshop => Performance Related => Topic started by: Mad Matt on November 26, 2009, 16:26

Title: Q&A Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Mad Matt on November 26, 2009, 16:26
Hi E,

I see you got this result, in part from the 57i. I'm quite interested in that as it appears to avoid sucking hot air in. How did you find it?

Cheers,

Matt.
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: E on November 26, 2009, 19:12
Ah a very good question but unfortunately I fear in the wrong place, if so could a mod please split it off.

The answer is that although the K&N 57i Gen2 comes with an extra heat shield it still suffers badly from Heat soak, initially when you really gunned it you could feel it pull back at the top end, in fact I lost about 9 mph from my top speed rolling road of course. this is the reason for the whole of my exhaust system being wrapped in thermal bandage to bring engine bay temps down, it works but costs abut £200+ to wrap the whole System.
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Mad Matt on November 26, 2009, 19:56
Thanks Ian.

Sorry, yes this probably was the wrong place   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Wabbitkilla on May 1, 2010, 10:30
[MOD]Postings have been removed at the request of the OP FGrob [/MOD]
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: rabscott2003 on August 14, 2010, 22:30
I have a 2001 1.8vvti MR-S with TDR Full body kit what kind of BHP does this have and how can i improve it?
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: markiii on August 14, 2010, 23:27
i think this is what you need

http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/search.php
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: FGrob on August 15, 2010, 07:29
Quote from: "markiii"i think this is what you need

http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/search.php
s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:     s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Krissg on February 16, 2011, 19:26
Sorry if I am being an idiot here but on the engine electronics, all who have made gains have used what I think are piggy back ecu's, am I right thinking this? And if so how does this work, and what kind of cost are you looking at? I have a custom exhaust and apexi induction so by looks of things new manifold, plugs and ecu with a map I can see some gains?? Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: nathanMR2 on February 16, 2011, 19:51
You have 2 options-

A piggy back ECU (Emanage, Unichip) which connects to your stock ecu
A stand alone ECU (Apexi PFC, Link) which replaces the stock ecu completely

These can vary in price from £150ish-£850ish

Many of the Unichip ecu's available 2nd hand from members come with present maps which do a reasonable job so you can get away without remapping.

For best results all need to be mapped/remapped. Which can cost around £300

If you decide to go down this route make sure you have carried out all engine/exhaust/induction mods you want to as each time you change something you are likely to need to remap everything again which can work oout an expensive game
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Krissg on February 16, 2011, 19:58
...also just to add, car is in garage tomorrow foe exhaust, is it worth getting the decat now? Iv read that you can suffer a mid range torque slump, is this quite noticeable and is it just a case of a map to rectify?? Thanks.
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: nathanMR2 on February 16, 2011, 20:32
A remap should help this. You could consider a sports cat which can be mot friendly too
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: PeteT on February 16, 2011, 21:43
Quote from: "Krissg"...also just to add, car is in garage tomorrow foe exhaust, is it worth getting the decat now? Iv read that you can suffer a mid range torque slump, is this quite noticeable and is it just a case of a map to rectify?? Thanks.

I have a sports cat on mine and haven't noticed any torque slump. Which exhaust did you go for Kriss?
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Krissg on February 16, 2011, 21:49
Quote from: "nathanMR2"A remap should help this. You could consider a sports cat which can be mot friendly too

Cheers Nathan, well if I was to get the decat and a CHE manifold could I not just remap the stock ECU? Thanks again!
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: nathanMR2 on February 16, 2011, 22:34
No mate will def need a piggy back
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Krissg on February 16, 2011, 22:41
Cheers nathan.
And I have a custom exhaust Pete, where did you get sports cat? Seem expensive online.
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: PeteT on February 21, 2011, 21:49
Hi Kris, sorry I didn't see this reply. Mine cost £220 supplied and fitted from the same place that did my exhaust.
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: jam sarnie on October 17, 2011, 13:02
Crikey,  I had a quote of £399 for a sports cat from Longlife,  looking at your quote the Longlife one seems a bit steep to say the least.  s:? :? s:?
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Tech on February 1, 2012, 00:14
Coming from an RX7 background of having an Apexi Power FC + Commander - how much are the Unichips?

And will they give good gains without initially mapping?
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Anonymous on February 1, 2012, 10:12
Unichip are ok for certain builds just be carefull as there are two types. Also if you get a used one it will have a map but with all piggy backs they really need to be mapped to your car. Performance gains depend on what mods.
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: SirCharles on August 3, 2012, 03:56
Hello all!

This is my first post here!

I am trying to find an answer to a question and I think you guys could help me.
I've done some search and still no answer.

I would like to know if I could get around 180 hp, at the engine, with these mods:

- Weapon R intake
- Full PPE exhaust (cat or no cat, witch ever is best)
- Crower cams stage 3
- Titanium springs and retainer
- Stainless valves
- Power FC

Thanks for the help!

Charles
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: PRspyder on August 3, 2012, 04:02
^^ not even in your dreams..
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Anonymous on August 3, 2012, 06:52
180 maybe a little high but might make 170bhp. If you do it let us know how you get on.
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Anonymous on August 3, 2012, 08:38
I think Toyota tried very hard with the VM180, which ended up with 155bhp.

A cheaper and more reliable route to 190 would probably be 2ZZ.
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Wabbitkilla on August 3, 2012, 09:00
Hello and welcome to the club.

It's been proved a couple of times you can reach 170bhp at the flywheel with an NA engine, 180bhp seems a bit out of reach and I doubt the cams will make that much of a difference. The only car I heard of reaching anywhere near that level was one equipped with ITB's (Individual Throttle Bodies), but I didn't see any proof of it in Dyno charts and the chap who did it has since disappeared off the face of the planet. Which is a pity as that's something I would like to try at some point (ITB's, not disappering - though I guess we all do that eventually).

Quote from: "SirCharles"Hello all!

This is my first post here!

I am trying to find an answer to a question and I think you guys could help me.
I've done some search and still no answer.

I would like to know if I could get around 180 hp, at the engine, with these mods:

- Weapon R intake
- Full PPE exhaust (cat or no cat, witch ever is best)
- Crower cams stage 3
- Titanium springs and retainer
- Stainless valves
- Power FC

Thanks for the help!

Charles
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: markiii on August 3, 2012, 09:27
the VM180 has more than 138bhp?
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Anonymous on August 3, 2012, 16:30
Quote from: "markiii"the VM180 has more than 138bhp?

And no precats. Didnt stop them developing oval bore though.
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: markiii on August 3, 2012, 18:15
hmm do you have a source for that? been playing with roadster for 10 years and hadn't heard that before
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Anonymous on August 3, 2012, 19:45
 m http://auto-specs.zercustoms.com/t/toyo ... tions.html (http://auto-specs.zercustoms.com/t/toyota/2001-toyota-mr2-vm180-trd-specifications.html) m

Im sure you have a much greater knowledge of the car than me Mark. I just spent some time researching the VM180 after Matt asked a question on the subject last week.

I also read that Rogue had had one for a while which they stated had 155bhp. It blew, so they did their V6 thing.

There is also one for sale at the mo in Japan, at $20,000. I think the ad mentions the same output, but cant find it now!

If Im wrong I can only hold my hands up.
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: markiii on August 3, 2012, 20:11
thanks Dick, wasn't trying to come across as an "I'm a  roadster god and know more than you" kind of post, just genuinely interested in seeing if its true and what they did if they did anything
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Anonymous on August 3, 2012, 20:37
No worries. Id never heard of it till Matt piped up. Very little info. Must have been a limitted edition pre MR-S which Toyota c*cked up on, announcing  the title before development was complete. It had a tidy wide kit and optional waletail. The jap market one for sale claims 500 miles only.
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Anonymous on August 4, 2012, 23:15
Fell over this today.

 m http://www.tradecarview.com/used_car/ja ... /10725641/ (http://www.tradecarview.com/used_car/japan%20car/toyota/mr-s/10725641/) m
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Wabbitkilla on August 5, 2012, 08:18
Quote from: "dick2ski"Fell over this today.

 m http://www.tradecarview.com/used_car/ja ... /10725641/ (http://www.tradecarview.com/used_car/japan%20car/toyota/mr-s/10725641/) m


A bit odd, I thought the 180 had better wheels and someone has remove the BFW
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Anonymous on August 5, 2012, 15:09
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"
Quote from: "dick2ski"Fell over this today.

 m http://www.tradecarview.com/used_car/ja ... /10725641/ (http://www.tradecarview.com/used_car/japan%20car/toyota/mr-s/10725641/) m


A bit odd, I thought the 180 had better wheels and someone has remove the BFW

I think the ironing board was an option.
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: ChrisGB on August 5, 2012, 19:28
Quote from: "SirCharles"Hello all!

This is my first post here!

I am trying to find an answer to a question and I think you guys could help me.
I've done some search and still no answer.

I would like to know if I could get around 180 hp, at the engine, with these mods:

- Weapon R intake
- Full PPE exhaust (cat or no cat, witch ever is best)
- Crower cams stage 3
- Titanium springs and retainer
- Stainless valves
- Power FC

Thanks for the help!

Charles


I think things are a little complex if you are going that far. I believe you will need to go with an uprated oil pump to run the sort of revs you are after with the stage 3 cams, the circuitworks one springs to mind. Probably need a water pump impeller from a 2zz as well. I don't know how many rpm the stock bottom end is good for, but to get to 180bhp, you are going to need to go past the stock 6800 and the often recommended (valve bounce restricted) 7200rpm.

Lastly, the PPE manifold is optimised for stock cams and you may find it less than ideal with the stage 3 cams. I do know that the normal PPE manifold has a very narrow collector that would quite possibly not support enough gas flow for more than around 160bhp. Get in touch with PPE and let them know the duration and timing of the cams you propose using and the RPM where you want peak torque. You are looking for around 130lb/ft at around 7500rpm.

Personally, with stage 3 cams, I reckon you may just make the 180bhp mark (the lift and duration increase over the stage 2 is significant), but you are definitely going to lose lower end torque and low rev manners.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Chris
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: SirCharles on August 7, 2012, 02:52
Quote from: "ChrisGB"
Quote from: "SirCharles"Hello all!

This is my first post here!

I am trying to find an answer to a question and I think you guys could help me.
I've done some search and still no answer.

I would like to know if I could get around 180 hp, at the engine, with these mods:

- Weapon R intake
- Full PPE exhaust (cat or no cat, witch ever is best)
- Crower cams stage 3
- Titanium springs and retainer
- Stainless valves
- Power FC

Thanks for the help!

Charles


I think things are a little complex if you are going that far. I believe you will need to go with an uprated oil pump to run the sort of revs you are after with the stage 3 cams, the circuitworks one springs to mind. Probably need a water pump impeller from a 2zz as well. I don't know how many rpm the stock bottom end is good for, but to get to 180bhp, you are going to need to go past the stock 6800 and the often recommended (valve bounce restricted) 7200rpm.

Lastly, the PPE manifold is optimised for stock cams and you may find it less than ideal with the stage 3 cams. I do know that the normal PPE manifold has a very narrow collector that would quite possibly not support enough gas flow for more than around 160bhp. Get in touch with PPE and let them know the duration and timing of the cams you propose using and the RPM where you want peak torque. You are looking for around 130lb/ft at around 7500rpm.

Personally, with stage 3 cams, I reckon you may just make the 180bhp mark (the lift and duration increase over the stage 2 is significant), but you are definitely going to lose lower end torque and low rev manners.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Chris

Thanks for the info!

My car serves mostly on track (Time Attack) and the classing system is based on a power to weight ratio. The main route is going 2ZZ but I am gathering information about other venues.

With 180 HP, the car will have to weight 1935 lbs.
With 200 HP, the car will have to weight 2150lbs.

Thanks again for the info.
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: MR 2ster on August 9, 2012, 20:37
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Which is a pity as that's something I would like to try at some point (ITB's, not disappering - though I guess we all do that eventually).

I got some ITB's for possible sale if you're interested? Was going to fit them to my Celica GT but never got around to it and they're just sat in my garage atm.
Title: Re: Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Puerco on May 28, 2013, 20:34
I've just returned to the MR2 fraternity after a 14 month flirtation with a Mini Cooper S JCW with 200 bhp and loads of torque.  My previous MR2 was a pre-facelift with the Jap gearbox.  
My current one is 2004 UK spec, 23,000 miles and immaculate.
First impressions are:   Overly long gearing (6th is overdrive, even 5th can't make peak revs) and slightly less sharp steering than my old one. I also miss the mid range torque of the MCS.  
I'd like:  more torque, sensible gearing, sharper steering.
My own thoughts are:  Che (or similar) manifold; Mark iii or Apexi induction; Piggy back ECU to increase torque; retain stock cat and existing TTE back box;  smaller final drive pinion (to reduce gearing by c10%);
slightly larger steering pinion (to gear up the steering)  This car is for road use only, so I'm not looking for maximum top end power or manic revs.  Which ECU mod maximises torque rather than power? Also, does anyone know if and where suitable final drive and steering pinions are available?  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Q&A Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: johnny8 on February 13, 2017, 14:48
A bit of info here regarding the VM180 for those interested.

 m http://fastestlaps.com/models/toyota-mr-s-vm180-zagato (http://fastestlaps.com/models/toyota-mr-s-vm180-zagato) m
Title: Re: Q&A Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Rallyeluke on October 12, 2020, 19:43
Never heard or a zm180 until now christ!
Title: Re: Q&A Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: FredyCro on April 15, 2022, 09:32
Sorry for double posting, delet one if needed (here and in my build thread).

Reposting text for better visibility and maybe it will help in this topic in the future then being lost in my build thread:


Does anyone knows how much can safely 1zz cylinder head can be trimmed? Ill probably do a small scale engine rebuild to freshen it up and would like to know this to get the right info to the machine shop.

Anybody did a crankshaft lightening, balancing (knife edging) on 1zz? I can do it fairly affordable at a great quality, stock is heavy.  And cons?

Any engine pulleys that are safe/ recommended to be made out of aluminum?

Ill probably go to force induction (SC most likely) if I dont sell the car or do some other swap - this is the prep work that needs to be done and why not do this while engine is down and being disassembled.


Thank you!
Title: Re: Q&A Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Call the midlife! on April 15, 2022, 09:48
The information in these pages notwithstanding you could try dropping Se7en motorsport an email, there's not much they don't know about getting performance out of the 1zz/2zz platforms.
As far as headwork goes a very light skim to true the face is about as much as you can do, there's little value to be had in spending time and money on porting/polishing as Toyota designed it to be as efficient as it could be anyway.
Title: Re: Q&A Engine modifications and performance gains for N/A 1ZZ
Post by: Petrus on April 15, 2022, 18:36
Quote from: FredyCro on April 15, 2022, 09:32Does anyone knows how much can safely 1zz cylinder head can be trimmed? Ill probably do a small scale engine rebuild to freshen it up and would like to know this to get the right info to the machine shop.

The problem is that 1. the pistons are not flush with the cilinder block and a tight squeeze to the roof already and 2. the timing chain case will no longer be flush with the top of the head so the cam cover bridging a gap.

QuoteAny engine pulleys that are safe/ recommended to be made out of aluminum?


Yes, several and the experts are still out on that. I have one fitted as well as a lighter underdrive alternator pulley ánd a lighter flywheel. All noticeable.
Would happily fit an aluminium idler wheel too as has @Bernie

Here is a good explanation of what the effect is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxuER0qIWJk

Here illustrated as easy as chips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHQOctEvtTY

Applies to wheels and the whole car too; hence MR2  ;D